E-Waste is a growing and difficult problem. It is dangerous and dirty work to recycle it, and much of the burden is carried by the poorest individuals.
Hey everybody, this is Chris Brandt, welcome to another FUTR podcast.
Today we are talking with Loren Williams from PCs for People, which is not only helping address the e-waste problem, but bridging the digital divide as well by providing refurbished computers to low income individuals. We are going to hear from Loren about how PCs for People came to be and how they are enabling people with technology.
Welcome Loren
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FUTR.tv focuses on startups, innovation, culture and the business of emerging tech with weekly podcasts featuring Chris Brandt and Sandesh Patel talking with Industry leaders and deep thinkers.
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E-Waste is a growing and difficult problem. It is dangerous and dirty work to recycle it, and much of the burden is carried by the poorest individuals.
Hey everybody, this is Chris Brandt, welcome to another FUTR podcast.
Today we are talking with Loren Williams from PCs for People, which is not only helping address the e-waste problem, but bridging the digital divide as well by providing refurbished computers to low income individuals. We are going to hear from Loren about how PCs for People came to be and how they are enabling people with technology.
Welcome Loren
Click Here to Subscribe:
FUTR.tv focuses on startups, innovation, culture and the business of emerging tech with weekly podcasts featuring Chris Brandt and Sandesh Patel talking with Industry leaders and deep thinkers.
Occasionally we share links to products we use. As an Amazon Associate we earn from qualifying purchases on Amazon.
E waste is a growing and difficult problem. It's dangerous and dirty work to recycle it, and much of the burden is carried by the poorest individuals. Hey everybody, this is Chris Brandt here. Welcome to another FUTR podcast today. We're talking with Loren Williams from PCs for people, which is not only helping address the e waste problem, but bridging the digital divide as well by providing refurbished computers to low income individuals. And we're going to hear from Loren about how PCs for people came to be and how they are enabling people with technology. Welcome, Loren.
Loren Williams:Hi, Chris. Great to be here. Thanks for having me.
Chris Brandt:I'm so excited to have you here because I think, uh, what you're doing is actually really important work. I mean, we, we talk so much about, um, the amount of e waste that we're generating and, um, it's just getting. increasingly massive, you know, the amount of e waste that that that's happening. But the other side of this is really important, too. There's so many people who don't have access to technology. And so you're kind of solving two really important problems here. And I know that, you know, the origin stories of this company, you know, come out of the need to, you know, help improve the community. Could you talk about like. Where you guys started and, and, and how it came to be,
Loren Williams:we kind of, um, I guess stumbled into the e waste or, uh, or electronics recycling business as a means to fuel. Our digital equity mission, but, but the way it happened was basically our founder is a social worker and one day he worked with troubled youth. He still does. He works with troubled youth. And one day he was sent a kid who had been hacking into his high school's computer system and that that's a lot of fun. You know, you change your grades. You know, you change your attendance record, maybe change it for some of your friends, but he got caught. He got sent to the social worker and, and the social worker, um, he liked to, instead of just lecturing somebody who did something wrong, he wants to take something that they're interested in and do something positive. So, he asked the kid, could you help out with a little bit of coding or this database for a non profit organization? And the kid said, sure, I'd be glad to do it. He clearly had the skills. I'd be glad to do it. Problem is, I don't have a computer. And, yeah, so how are you going to do that? Um, so the social worker said, let me see what I can do. He goes, he, he works for a county government. He goes to the government, um, and he said, can we get this kid a computer? And of course they laughed at him because where is the budget just to start giving away computers? And then somebody in the office said, There's a closet over there where we put the old ones and the broken ones. If he can fix one, he can have one. Smart kid, he did. He fixed one, and then he fixed another.
Chris Brandt:Well, he's gotta be a smart kid to be able to be hacking things without an actual computer.
Loren Williams:Yeah, yeah. He figured out a way to use somebody else's. And then after he... After he fixed one, he, um, fixed another from that closet, and they found somebody else in need who, um, took that computer, and then another, and another, and then, um, a few weeks later, the social worker gets a call from the IT department, and he starts thinking, oh boy, I'm in trouble now, and the IT department says, we heard about what you've been doing, and guess what, we have 40 more computers coming, can you disturb you with those? And that's, that's kind of how PCs for people was born.
Chris Brandt:Having worked in, you know, large enterprise, you know, there was always a closet just piled to the ceiling with stuff. And you're like, what do I do with it? You know, because there's not not a great way to get rid of, you know, computers and securely dispose them or, or just dispose of them at all, you know, I mean, I recently, I've got stuff sitting around here in my basement that I just have nowhere to take, you know, it's a real problem.
Loren Williams:Yeah, absolutely. And you mentioned a large enterprise, large enterprises tend to use a computer for three or four, maybe five years, and we find we can get life out of a computer for eight or nine years. So there's still a lot of life left in that computer. And I'm sure when a large enterprise says we're going to replace our computers, they spend a lot of time shopping and finding the right model. And figuring out what software is going to go in the next generation, but maybe not so much time figuring out what they're going to do with the old ones. Everyone's excited to get something shiny and new. So what do you do with the old ones? Like you said, they sometimes get put in the closet. Um, and PC's for People wants to come and empty that closet. Liberate the closet. Empty that storeroom. Yes.
Chris Brandt:Uh, it's a huge environmental impact that e waste has. And so much of this ends up getting shipped to poor countries and thrown in giant landfills where, you know, people go through it in very dangerous ways and ways that are not. You know, protective of their health are, you know, recycling components and it's lots of toxic chemicals and toxic fumes and you know, they're bearing a huge burden for us to enjoy all these wonderful products. Right? So the best thing is not to recycle, but to reuse, right?
Loren Williams:Yeah, absolutely. And we take it one step beyond that. It's not just reuse. It's reused by individuals and families that otherwise Don't have a computer and that otherwise are not connected to the internet. Do we have a low cost internet service to go with, with the computers as well. And then inevitably when we clear out those store rooms or those offices full of computers, there's always equipment that's too old or too broken. Um, and we'll harvest parts from those and anything that we can't reuse, um, gets responsibly recycled. That, that means it does not go into a landfill. Once it's gone into the back of our truck and into one of our warehouses,
Chris Brandt:corporations typically depreciate things on a three to five year life cycle in terms of computer tech, right? I mean, servers, servers and storage arrays, you know, tend to be on the five year, but pretty much everything else is like three years. And once that stuff's depreciated, they're buying new stuff, right? Um, so like you mentioned, you know, computers. Back in the day when, you know, just there was so much advancement happening, you know, like a three year old computer was getting a little long in the tooth. But nowadays, the components are so good and so fast that it's not like a three year old computer is completely out of date. Um, my, my personal laptop is over three years old. You know, and I, it seems like it's brand new to me, you know, and, and, and so there's a lot of, like you said, there's a lot of life left in these computers. So you're not just giving people garbage, right?
Loren Williams:Yeah, we're, we're making sure that everything is brought up to spec. It gets tested. We, we include a one year warranty and technical support. When we distribute a computer, we include windows 10. Um, we're a Microsoft authorized refurbisher. Um, I think we're the only non profit with that designation in the U.S. But we're, we work with Microsoft to be able to distribute Windows 10. Um, many of our recipients are job seekers. That's why they need a computer to either get, uh, training to get a job or just simply to apply for a job. And we want them to have. And, and be using the same operating system that they will quite likely use in the corporate environment when they, when they get a job. And is that
Chris Brandt:a partnership with Microsoft? How does that all come together?
Loren Williams:We have an authorization, it's called MAR, Microsoft Authorized Refurbisher, which allows us to install fully legally and licensed Windows 10 on every computer that we distribute. Now, part of, part of the agreement with Microsoft is we are just. Distributing to low income households and quite frankly, most of these households would not be going into a store and buying a brand new computer where Microsoft, you know, gets their full licensing fee, whatever that is. Um, so we're not taking away business from Microsoft. We're actually, in a sense, training people to use the Microsoft authori the Microsoft operating system. And once they've got a making a good living, they're gonna buy a computer with that operating system, most likely. So it works out well for everyone.
Chris Brandt:I think that's a, a good, um, good advertisement for, for Microsoft that they're contributing in this way and, and helping low income people, um, you know, advance themselves. That's, that's awesome to hear. That's awesome to hear corporate America stepping up and doing something good, you know? Yes. Yes. And then you also mentioned that when people receive these, they also get a low cost internet, you said. Could you talk about that as well?
Loren Williams:A lot of people, um, could get a computer, but if you don't have internet service where you live, it's, it's, It's going to be like a car without a highway. You're not going to really be able to do much. Um, so we, we've, we work with T Mobile Sprint and their network to be able to provide a hotspot um, at a very low cost. The service is unlimited service for 15 a month and it's month to month service. Oh, that's not bad. Yeah. And actually, there's a federal program that's currently available. called the Affordable Connectivity Program, or ACP. And we're a partner in that, so we can get qualified families signed up for the Affordable Connectivity Program. And then that 15 a month becomes 0 a month, as long as the federal government keeps funding that program.
Chris Brandt:That's amazing. I mean, I got to imagine, you know, like between this Microsoft thing, the Sprint and T Mobile, you know, like, I'm sure that people don't realize that these things are out there for them. And that just, it, for some people, you know, low income families, that must just seem completely out of reach, but it really isn't if you can take advantage of some of these things, huh?
Loren Williams:Yeah, yeah, and it's, we're constantly out there getting the word out. Um, we partner with social service organizations to help reach people they serve with housing authorities. Boys and girls clubs, public libraries, just to get the word out, it might seem too good to be true. But, um, once somebody... It does sound too good to be true. Once somebody gets the computer and the internet access and they tell a loved one or a neighbor or somebody else, oftentimes we might go somewhere and distribute computers and have a small turnout. Um, but those people will get computers and when we come back a few months later... We'll have a lot more people because the word of mouth has spread that this, this is for real.
Chris Brandt:Well, on that, let's talk a little bit about the sort of the logistics of how this all works. You do collections, obviously, you kind of have a limit of like at least 15 to, to bring the truck out, right? Um, could you talk about how like you, you, you get these computers and, and, and if like a large enterprise or even just a community wanted to start donating computers to you, how would that all work?
Loren Williams:Yeah, so it's a lot of what we get is from medium to large organizations, um, corporations especially, but also colleges, school districts, um, local governments, city governments, county governments. Um, and we, we find whoever is managing their end of life computers. And we simply talk about our mission. And the first question that comes up is, what are you going to do with my data? I've got those computers. I wrote, like you said, you write down the computers on your books, you depreciate them, so maybe the computer has no more monetary value to the organization, but the data that's sitting on those hard drives is critical. A company or school cannot afford to have data leakage. So we talked to them about our secure data sanitization process, and it's not just deleting the data on the hard drive, but it starts when we show up at their office or at their college with our truck and our background checked employees. Um, there's very specific. Specific procedures they follow, um, to load the computers into the truck to make sure the truck is always locked. If the door to the truck is open, somebody is always there with the truck. Um, get back to the, to our secure warehouse. Um, we have nine warehouses around the country. So get back to one of the warehouses, unload the computers, immediately the hard drives that store the data come out of the computers and they go to an even more secure, limited access. Room in the technical center in that room, the data gets deleted in the hard hard drives get tested for data deletion if if the data can't 100% be deleted on a particular drive. That drive goes in a shredder. We've got a giant metal shredder specifically built for hard drives in every location. So there is absolutely no chance of data leakage. If there's any data left, it gets shredded.
Chris Brandt:And do you, do you provide certificates of secure disposal as well?
Loren Williams:Yes. Yeah, we're happy to. Many corporations want those. from us. Sometimes smaller organizations don't, but we're happy to provide those that list every serial number of every computer of every hard drive and certification that data was either totally destroyed or that the drive itself was destroyed physically.
Chris Brandt:Man, I wish I knew about you guys back in the day because I have spent so much time, you know, securely destroying computers and things like that. And it just, it just felt like a shame just filling, you know, bins with stuff that was just headed, you know. To just be shredded, essentially, you know, um, it's, it would have been so much better and I would have felt much better about myself if I was giving it to you guys. Um, so hopefully there's people out there like me who, you know, can change course and start, you know, donating these things instead of, you know, just destroying them.
Loren Williams:Yeah, absolutely. We'd be happy to have them.
Chris Brandt:So you mentioned that you have nine of these secure locations around the country. Now, you guys, um. If I'm not mistaken, the social worker who started this was in Minnesota, I believe, right?
Loren Williams:Mankato, Minnesota.
Chris Brandt:Yeah, and I came across you at Chicago Tech Week here in Chicago, so you're obviously in Chicago and in Minnesota. Where are all the locations that you're, uh, you're in?
Loren Williams:The headquarters is now in St. Paul. Okay. And we have other locations in Baltimore, Cleveland. Of course, here in Chicago, St. Louis, Kansas City, Denver, Atlanta, and our next location will open in Philadelphia.
Chris Brandt:And the thing that's great about that is some of the cities you mentioned there have large populations of people who need these computers. Yeah. A city that's a good source for companies large enough to have a lot of them and a population that, that needs them. It seems like there's good alignment in all those cities.
Loren Williams:Yeah, and we don't, we don't just, um, each facility will not, will cover more than just the city. We kind of will. Draw a circle of about a four hour driving perimeter from each location and do a lot of work in, in those areas. So we cover all of the state of Illinois from the two locations in Illinois. And eventually we'd like to have probably like 18 locations to cover the vast majority of, of the U. S. low income populations to be within those four hour circles.
Chris Brandt:And you only have one truck in Illinois, is that right?
Loren Williams:We've got, uh, one in Northern Illinois and, um, two for Southern Illinois. A small truck and a big truck. Yeah. Small truck and a big truck.
Chris Brandt:Well, I mean, I, I gotta imagine that would be something nice for somebody to donate to you as well. Like a couple, you know, some of those secure sprinter vans or something like that.
Loren Williams:Yeah. That would be great.
Chris Brandt:So anybody out there with a car dealership or something? Let's get them more trucks so they can collect more PCs. Um, so, so that's cool. So, like, if somebody wanted to donate, what's, what, what's the best process?
Loren Williams:So they can, um, contact me directly. And if it's in Illinois, I'll help shepherd them through the process. Otherwise, I'll introduce. I'm going to one of my colleagues and one of our other locations, and they'll be, um, usually if it's an organization, they'll want to have a discussion about the data deletion that you and I already talked about and about the process, and then it's a matter of filling out a very short. form listing where's the equipment? What do you have? Um, is it on the top floor of a skyscraper with a freight elevator or the basement of an old building where people have to walk up and down the stairs? And we'll be picked up in both of those kinds of places all the time. And that just helps our team to arrive with the truck as prepared as possible and bring the right moving equipment. And then we pick a date that is agreeable to everyone and send the truck out and get the job done.
Chris Brandt:And so to contact you, should they go to the PCs for people website? That's, is that the best way?
Loren Williams:It's PCSFORpeople.org.
Chris Brandt:And I'll put a link to that in the show notes as well. So, okay. So, so large corporations can, um, have, you know, a, a, a time when they, you come and pick up, uh, equipment from them, but I know that, you know, communities and have, have sort of rallied to do events to, to gather stuff so that you can, uh, collect that as well.
Loren Williams:Yeah, absolutely. We've had, um, civic organizations like, like rotary clubs, um, like public libraries. Um, just do public collections. So people like you who have three or four or five computers in their house.
Chris Brandt:Way more computers than I should have. I have so many junk computers.
Loren Williams:A lot of people do. Yeah. Um, so you don't have to drive them all the way to one of our tech centers. We will accept drop offs during business hours, but if you don't want to drive them or it's far away, sometimes community organizations. We'll set up a collection event. They'll collect computers, maybe on a Saturday or Sunday, and then our truck will come in on Monday and pick up everything that they've collected. And we have kind of a handbook that'll help, uh, help community organizations that want to organize that.
Chris Brandt:One thing that I've always been surprised by is that people and I'm, I'm like a classic example of this will keep all their computers, you know, like, because they have nowhere to go with it and they'll stuff it somewhere in a basement and a closet or something like that. But, you know, one day I went down to my, I bin of, you know, old and scary things. And I found an iPhone in there. It was an iPhone four, I think. And it was probably about this thick. So it had a lithium ion battery in there that was just expanding, expanding, expanding. And I just happened to see it. That thing could have burst and started a fire in my basement at any time. So it's not even a good idea for people to store all this e waste in their house. It's much better. Get it out of your house. Get it to somebody who can take a look at it, refurbish it and get it to somebody who can actually make use of it and keep yourself safe. That's my, that's my little PSA. Absolutely. You mentioned there was a high school student who did a community service project where he collected PCs.
Loren Williams:Yeah, he did something just like that over, he actually, I think, over the course of of three or four weeks collected PCs, found a place where he could securely store them. And, um, then at the end of the period of time, we just came and picked them up. And, um, he's done it twice for us and gotten, I think, north of a hundred computers each time.
Chris Brandt:That's amazing. Um, I, I, I do want to get my, my son is great at, at, Fixing computers. He loves, he loves playing with all that stuff. I've already talked to him about, you know, like once he gets back into school, you know, at the end in the fall that he should start a project and collect computers because I know the community has a ton of computers. They're just sitting there doing nothing. And it'd be great to great to get that in. So hopefully, hopefully we can make that happen. You know, like, have you, do you, do you stay in touch with these communities that you affect by, you know, like, Uh, Enabling them with technology. I mean, I got to imagine there's some really great stories there with people who have just, you know, been really helped by this, right?
Loren Williams:One thing that comes to mind is we were, we were picking up, um, a lot of equipment from the basement of a, of an organization. And, um, in fact, I went out early to survey it, and we figured that's probably going to be three truckloads of equipment. And so I spent some time with my contact there. She was, uh, uh, kind of in charge of this huge warehouse, a senior level administrator, and this was a warehouse full of all kinds of stuff that this organization had. And we talked a number of times as we were setting this up, and then she said to me, Loren, do you know how I know about PCs for People? And I said, no, I don't think that's come up. Um, you know, people hear of us from word of mouth, from somebody else who's contributed. Um, she said, a few years ago, I was the recipient of a computer from PCs for People. Which means that she met a low income, um, threshold a few years ago. And I'm not saying that because she got a computer from PCs for People, she got a job and is now manager of this, you know, decent sized facility. But there might have been something to do with that.
Chris Brandt:That's a great story. It's just like coming full cycle. Yeah. You mentioned like, you know, low income, like what constitutes low income? If somebody was looking to get, you know, a PC, you know, like, how would they go about doing that? And what do they need to, you know, do to qualify?
Loren Williams:Sure. So the, the threshold is two times federal poverty level. And then we have, we have a few other ways. To kind of short circuit that that are pretty commonly used because if you're at that income level, you're probably receiving, or you might be receiving other government economic assistance, like housing assistance, like food assistance, like social security disability. If you just show us that you're receiving one of those. And we have a list of about a dozen or so, if you just show us, then you're qualified with us.
Chris Brandt:I know you have like, um, some retail stores and things like that. Like what, where can, where can people go to find this if there's not an event being held?
Loren Williams:So at each of those, um, cities that I mentioned earlier, there, there is a retail store. I think, I think Baltimore is currently. Closed down for remodeling or something, but each location, there's one in Cook County in Oak Lawn, a little bit south of Midway Airport, that's open business hours where somebody can walk in and the same thing at each of our other processing facilities.
Chris Brandt:And are there other ways to get one? I mean, can you order one online? How does that work?
Loren Williams:Yep, you can go online. Um, it's a little bit of a clunky process, but we totally, we 50 states. Um, from people ordering online, we do community distribution events where we'll partner with an organization that's already in the community and we'll bring a truckload of computers out for a specific day. And then we have some, usually in more rural areas, we have some distribution points where it'll be often, it's a public library where we'll 20 or 30 computers. whatever they can store, and those will sit there. The recipient will still register through us, so we'll do all the proof of income and everything, um, and then they'll walk in and just pick up the device, and so the library will serve as a distribution point. We have a number of those around Illinois.
Chris Brandt:How do you finance all this operation? How does this, how do you make money off of all this? I imagine you're a 501c3?
Loren Williams:Yeah, we're a 501c3 non profit, so we do get We do get some grants. We do get some donations. Um, we, we actually, when we distribute the computers, there is a, a sales price assigned to them. And a laptop will start at a list price of 50. Up to about 125 and desktops are slightly less. And that price includes the windows 10 includes the year of tech support and warranty so that that's kind of covering our costs. Now, a lot of times we, we have subsidies like with the affordable connectivity program, we had the 11 notebook for a while. We got a grant from Indeed. The job search site to, to fully cover the cost of, uh, several thousand computers to people who met our eligibility standards and were job seekers. So we'll sometimes get grants like that that'll help just cover the costs.
Chris Brandt:From a personal perspective Like what how did you get involved in this?
Loren Williams:So in 2020 when all the kind of craziness was going on? Yeah, the governor of Illinois governor Pritzker had a daily press conference every afternoon to talk about the situation in the state He talked about the the raw numbers of people who were ill Um, or who had unfortunately passed away and then he'd always talk about what the state government of Illinois was doing to alleviate the situation, uh, getting ventilators, setting up an emergency hospital just in case. And then one day at this, at this, um, press conference, he talked about, just started talking about the digital divide kind of seemed a little out of left field. And he said, it's terrible in Illinois. Just in Illinois, there's 1. 1 million families lacking computer or internet, and of course you need both. And we're telling, I'm up here telling people, stay home, study remotely, work remotely, do telehealth. But I know there's so many families that, that can't do that because they don't have access. And so, as any good politician does after they tee up the problem, he said, here's our solution. We found a solution for Illinois. We're going to get PCs for people to open up in Illinois. And then he cut the zoom over to, um, the CEO of PCs for people who gave kind of the, the two minute review of what PCs for people does and how we do it. And. We're coming soon to Illinois. And I heard that and like, that is great. And, um, I've always been in the computer hardware industry, um, selling, buying, leasing, and I know a lot of people kind of in the business side of it. So I said, when they come here, I got to do some intros. I'll help them out somehow. And I went on LinkedIn, and sure enough, my college roommate was connected to one of the senior PCs for People managers, and we talked on the phone a couple times, and I said, just let me know when you open up, I'll do some intros, and we kept talking, and a few months later, I'm hired here, and it's my career.
Chris Brandt:Well, it's got to be an incredibly rewarding career. You know, we everybody's out there right now. I mean, this is that big, you know, job search time for so many people. And so many people are looking for purpose in their career. Yeah. I mean, you seem to have found it.
Loren Williams:Yeah. Yeah. I know. I know you have a lot of listeners in the venture capital. World and I know there's got to be a lot of satisfaction when you help somebody start their business and it takes off and they only did it because you're there with the capital to get them rolling in the beginning. I mean, for us, it's helping somebody get their education started or getting their work life. Started or job training to better themselves because they have that tool.
Chris Brandt:I was so excited to meet you at Chicago Tech Week and just hear what you're doing because I think this is a really something important. I mean, you're solving so many problems and in a way the solution is so obvious. It's like. Why aren't we doing this with so many other things to hate? I mean, just, you know, that redistribute things. But, um, but it's great to know that, you know, there's there are people out there who are helping to solve this horrible waste problem that, you know, falls disproportionately on the poor. And then using, you know, that waste problem. system to help the poor who are disproportionately impacted, you know, with a lot of this. So, um, really fantastic stuff you guys are doing. I'm so excited, uh, to see where you go from here. And I, I'm, I'm going to encourage my son to get involved if we can and see if we can. I'm, I'm in a town that has a lot of, Stuff that, you know, should be going, you know, somewhere. Good. Um, so maybe, maybe I can, you know, rattle some cages around here too and help you out. I'd love to do that.
Loren Williams:Absolutely.
Chris Brandt:And again, if anybody wants to help out, they want to donate, they want to donate computers, donate money, donate a truck, donate, uh, you know, or if they need to receive because they don't, don't have, uh, you know, a computer to, to, to work with. Okay. Go to pcs4people. org, correct? Yes. Yep. Absolutely. All right. All right. And I'll put that in the show notes. Well, Loren, thanks so much for being on. Thanks for doing what you do. It's really awesome. And, uh, I appreciate it so much.
Loren Williams:Oh, thanks for having me, Chris. This was great.
Chris Brandt:Thanks for watching. I'd love to hear from you in the comments. And if you could give us a like, think about subscribing and I will see you in the next one.