The Queer Quadrant
The Queer Quadrant
Wicked
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Together we're UNLIMMMMITTTTEEEDDDD as we journey to Oz for some doomed yuri! Our playbill includes two theater kids geeking about theater (shocking), unfortunate backlighting, the Ariana Grande school of improv, one iconic press tour, and definitive song rankings. No spoilers for Wicked Act 2 / For Good!
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Hey, our ride's almost here.
SPEAKER_05Are you ready? Just grabbing my shoes.
SPEAKER_09That's what you said ten minutes ago.
SPEAKER_05I just dropped the video call, uploading this giant file on my tablet, looking at my watch go bananas with the group chat, and of course, still lining up tonight's playlist on my phone.
SPEAKER_00All at once?
SPEAKER_05Yep. Story of my life. That's why I switched to T-Mobile. They have the fastest 5G network.
SPEAKER_11Okay, multitasker. That's to you.
SPEAKER_05Honestly, I never imagined I could do all this at once. It's awesome.
SPEAKER_12Say no more, I'm totally switching. My post is taking way too long to upload.
SPEAKER_05That's a sign you've got to get T-Mobile.
SPEAKER_04So many reasons to join T Mobile. Find yours at T Mobile.com.
SPEAKER_07Hi everyone, and welcome to another episode of The Queer Quadrant, a podcast where we, two bisexual filmmakers, examine cinema in all its cultural contexts and explore why your favorite four quadrant blockbuster is maybe not as straight as you think it is.
SPEAKER_02Do you think that you're the alphabet or the Glinda of this podcast?
SPEAKER_07Hmm. For once, this is actually tough.
SPEAKER_02Oh, really? Okay. Really?
SPEAKER_07Who do you think?
SPEAKER_02Who do I think you are? Who do you think I want you to say you are? I'm posing it back to you.
SPEAKER_07I assume that you would like to be Glinda.
SPEAKER_02Yeah.
SPEAKER_07Yeah. Which I guess makes me Alphabet, which is great.
SPEAKER_02I just think as you have black hair.
SPEAKER_07Oh, well. I thanks. I guess.
SPEAKER_02Maybe I feel like Glinda is a spiritual animal for me, you know?
SPEAKER_07Yes, definitely. I do feel like if you're the silly one, I'm the one that's like, can we please seriously?
SPEAKER_02Exactly, yeah. Yeah.
SPEAKER_07So yeah, I can see that. But you have the emotional. That is true.
SPEAKER_02I have the suicidal ideation that Alphaba has.
SPEAKER_07No, actually, she's not. She's not. She's pretty confident.
SPEAKER_02She's she's been bullied a lot, but that's true. Well, look, I have as well. I understand.
SPEAKER_07Okay, but you're not special.
SPEAKER_02We've all been bullied. My skin was green. I hate I hate to break it to you.
SPEAKER_07Oh, wow. This okay, this changes everything. Ah, fuck. Changes everything.
SPEAKER_02Shit, we have to redo this entire podcast.
SPEAKER_07I just have to say that Jordan is wearing a wicked shirt. Yes. That apparently they received on the Universal Lot for the low, low price of free 99.
SPEAKER_02Yeah, it was great. It was crazy. I also got a free Wicked cookie. It was absolutely disgusting.
SPEAKER_07It was like one of the worst cookies I've ever had, but it's I still remember one of the years that our company party was at Universal Studios. They handed out those giant Simpsons donuts on the way out that are like the size of your head. Not a good donut.
SPEAKER_02I think the donut is fine.
SPEAKER_07Okay. I mean, it's pink. It is big.
SPEAKER_02It's a big ass donut.
SPEAKER_07Like it's probably like a $30 donut.
SPEAKER_02You know what I'd say that that's an Aussian donut.
SPEAKER_07It's definitely an Aussian donut. There, so this. I do not know if this is addressed in the book, but the Aussian language that is throughout this musical slash film has always fascinated me.
SPEAKER_02Are you pro or anti?
SPEAKER_07I'm pro. Okay, good. It's very silly. But it's not a thing from the original Oz books. And I don't know if it's a thing from Gregory Maguire's book. Um I bet it's from the musical. Okay.
SPEAKER_02Do we wanna do do we want to make that guess now or no?
SPEAKER_07Dude, but how do I find out? Like, what do I look up? Gregory Maguire?
SPEAKER_02Bitch, what did you do in the book?
SPEAKER_07Azian language wicked.
SPEAKER_02Like, where did this Steven Schwartz tell me?
SPEAKER_07What if all the made up Aussian word?
SPEAKER_02You wanna hit us with some classic Aussian words?
SPEAKER_07Like Hideotious.
SPEAKER_02That's a good one. That's a good one.
SPEAKER_07Um, moodified.
SPEAKER_02I guess I'm often motified.
SPEAKER_07Oh, Scandalotius.
SPEAKER_02Scandalotius is good. I'm scrolling through my watch notes. I feel like I wrote some down, but now, of course, that the pressure is on, the clock is on me, I can't find them.
SPEAKER_07There is I don't know.
SPEAKER_02Is it true that you were her friends? Interesting. Subjugation in? I'm gonna go with that.
SPEAKER_07I am going to.
SPEAKER_02Well, I mean, just like the names themselves. You know, I feel like Fiero himself is a silly name.
SPEAKER_07We can thank Maguire for a lot of those. But apparently.
SPEAKER_02We can thank Maguire for a lot. I'll just tell you that.
SPEAKER_07Yeah, apparently we can thank Winnie Holzman, co-writer of the book, like the musical book, Wicked, for the Azian words. Okay. According to Reddit.
SPEAKER_02Brooke Solomoshian. My last name, in of itself, I think, is kind of already Aussiean because of how people pronounce it. That is that is right on the Rastafarian line.
SPEAKER_07Sorry about that. Um speaking of who we are, now that we've introduced ourselves in Aussian language, I'm Brook Solomon.
SPEAKER_02Jordan Gustafson.
SPEAKER_07We love talking cinema. We love uh talking about being queer. We love talking about queer cinema. We're lucky that we get to talk about it on mic. Today is the first episode of two episodes. We're talking wicked part one.
SPEAKER_02Yes.
SPEAKER_07Not to be confused with Wicked for Good. And just so everyone knows, this will be a spoiler-free episode.
SPEAKER_02Oh, for Wicked Part Two.
SPEAKER_07Of Wicked Part Two.
SPEAKER_02Okay. I was like, girl, what do you mean, spoiler free?
SPEAKER_07Of Wicked Part Two. So if you, for some reason, have never seen the stage musical.
SPEAKER_02Oh, I see what you're saying. So I can't say that beep, beep, beep becomes beep, beep, beep.
SPEAKER_07No, because we're gonna talk about it next week. If we weren't or sorry, in two weeks from now, if we weren't doing a Wicked for Good episode, I would say maybe cards on the table, but we're gonna get into all of it. God, that's so many, so many teases for next week. Exactly. And we can also get into how the movie tackles it, which we don't know yet, because we haven't seen it yet. Like it's gonna be fun. It's gonna it's gonna be a lot of like Yeah.
SPEAKER_02No, I think this is actually good because I think that this episode we can also focus on like the book and the musical, and then the history of the music. Yaoi, etc. And then get into you know Yuri, Yuri, whatever, whatever.
SPEAKER_08I've never This is the thing.
SPEAKER_02Okay, I've never actually like Excuse you, I've never actually seen it said out loud. It's only something I like read online.
SPEAKER_07Well, yeah, because people don't say Yowie and Yuri in real life unless they're on a podcast like this. Ah! I've been dragged! Yowie is boys, Yuri is girls. It comes from manga as far as I am aware.
SPEAKER_02Okay.
SPEAKER_07Yeah. Great. Um, I was always brought up with MLM and WLW. Yes. But I was familiar with the industry is fine.
SPEAKER_02Well, it's great. We're shipping. We have shipping. Um we have our canon. Um what else? What are some other terms?
SPEAKER_07Well, how far back do you want to go? Because we can go wrong. A lot of, for example, the wicked book is lemon. The wicked musical is not lemon.
SPEAKER_02Hold actually. Explain.
SPEAKER_07Or in 2025 terms, the wicked book is spicy and the wicked musical is not spicy.
SPEAKER_02Oh, okay. I see. Yeah, I see. I'm learning, I'm listening.
SPEAKER_07Okay, I have a real question that I'm about to find out right now. Yeah. Um, first of all, it's gay. Like, this is a gay, this is a gay piece of words.
SPEAKER_02It's the gayest straight musical ever made.
SPEAKER_07I wonder if they do, so like I've been reading a lot of Super Bat fanfic. Um while you're revealing it now? Yeah. Well, they've just put, but I'm revealing it for a good reason. They put like Superman all media types and like Batman all media types. We're about to find out if there is like a wicked all media types all media types. On archive on our wicked all media types, there is. That's great. So you can read, that means that you can go and you want to read fanfic. You can read it about the book, the stage musical, or the film.
SPEAKER_02That's pretty cool. Yeah. That's pretty cool. Um shit. This is gonna change Brooks' life. So yeah, I guess like, should we just say like this is gay and like end the episode now? It could be our shortest episode, like seven minutes in. You feel good about that?
SPEAKER_07I feel great about that.
SPEAKER_02Great, done.
SPEAKER_07This was um, so we'll see you next time. It's really gay though.
SPEAKER_02Follow us on Twitter, X like the Everything app.
SPEAKER_07It's been gay. I don't apparently like this is news to some people.
SPEAKER_02I well, my favorite thing. I texted you this was I started, I do I love doing my research, my little Googles of like X-Movie gay, X-Movie queer, X movie lesbian or whatever, and came upon a Reddit thread. That was just someone posted, a lesbian person, and she posed the question, is Wicked supposed to be gay? And was like, I'm getting a lot of gay vibes from this. And I was like water wet? Girl, is Galinda's favorite color pink? Is Alphabet's skin green?
SPEAKER_07You do not even want to know, and also I don't search it out. I'm not in this fandom. You do not want to know the amount of fan art that I have seen that has pink and green in places that I never needed to see it. Okay.
SPEAKER_02Period. And period on that.
SPEAKER_07Well But also, I'm like, it's not paint, it's skin.
SPEAKER_02That's actually true. There's some questions. Did I send you the Halloween costume? Of course. Okay, yeah.
SPEAKER_07Uh, there's a Halloween costume of someone who dressed up as Glinda and has like green paint all over her lips. Like she's been smooching.
SPEAKER_02Right, like if someone went down on Shrek, etc. The joke has been made before.
SPEAKER_07Yeah, except, however, it's skin, so shouldn't come off. Um, but like this has been gay. This has been gay. Let's with that in mind. In mind, yes, um, two gays talking about a gay piece of media. When did we first come to this gay piece of media?
SPEAKER_02Exactly. Are we talking the movie? No, no, no. We're talking about Wicked the musical first, right?
SPEAKER_07Yes, not the book. I was actually, I'll give you my very quick books spiel is that I was a theater kid, so obviously when I was like 11 or 12, I was obsessed with Wicked. That's when Wicked was at like the height of its powers. Yes, was in like 2008. Obama was president, things were we were all living out. Yes, Wicked was dominating Broadway alongside the Lion King. It was a good time.
SPEAKER_03Yes, we could all still be with the wizard. Yeah.
SPEAKER_07Um, and I was like, Well, I'm gonna read the book, and my parents did some cursory research and were like, No, you are not. No, and I like it's not like I fought them on it. Like, they were like, Oh, I we don't think you would enjoy it. It's kind of like weird and dark. And I was like, Okay, I'll go read something else. And then la this year, I guess, I was like, let me give the wicked book another shot. Cause I heard that there was some gay shit in it. I didn't, this is not a knock on the book, it just wasn't my thing. I didn't even get to the gay shit.
SPEAKER_02Like, whoa, really?
SPEAKER_07Didn't even get there.
SPEAKER_02So, like you're you're like telling me like Maguire is like not great.
SPEAKER_07I no, it's not, it's not a it's not a poorly written book. It's just so vastly different.
SPEAKER_02Isn't it just like really animal rights activism in it? Like the whole a major part of it is about like the rebellion of the animals, right? From what my reading was.
SPEAKER_07I think so, but also I would argue that's pretty damn present in the musical. Like you do not, you cannot believe how much this movie is about animal rights.
SPEAKER_02They love animal rights in this, let me tell you.
SPEAKER_07To me, it was the craziest thing when I went and saw the musical, even though I had been listening to the um the CD for like years. Oh my god.
SPEAKER_02There's like what hey now, hey now. Seeing Dillaman for the first time, and you're like, ugh, whoa!
SPEAKER_07But also like the whole thing with the lion cup, like obviously there's no songs around that, so I didn't know what I was getting into. These were back in the olden days when you couldn't just like look up the book to the musical.
SPEAKER_02That is also okay. I I was thinking about this in the shower this morning because I was like, what are we gonna talk about on Wicked? blah blah blah, of course, hyperventilating. I'm like, this is a tr a very important episode for us. And I was like thinking about how shocked I was. I'm gonna save the reveal when a certain person goes through a transformation. Right, you should in act two, she was. Yeah, for good. Um, and I remember how gagged I was when I was like 12 because I was like, Oh my god, I had no idea, this changes everything, you know.
SPEAKER_07It was so crazy to like have the books or like the the songs of a musical memorized and then go see the show and finally have all the pieces put together. Yes. That's why I was really excited when I found out that Hamilton was a sung-through musical because I was like, finally, I know, you don't miss anything. Yes right away.
SPEAKER_02Um well this is this was famously marketed on finding out the whole story, the truth.
SPEAKER_07Finding, find, find out the true story, the whole story. The total story about how the witch got that broom and that hat and dad cape and dad cape. But to finish my book, yes, please was that yes. Okay, to finish my book slot, it's it's a very serious book about like politics of Oz. So it's kind of like reading a dense fantasy novel, but if someone had already told you that fantasy novel as a bedtime story for like your entire life, they'll be dropping lore about like the winkies and the quadlings, my favorite people, but they all have different names. Yeah. And it's sort of I, you know, I get it. It's this whole idea that like the story of Oz, the story you know is this like glamorized like propaganda, and this is like the real kind of like dark underbelly. But it just like it was not clicking in my mind because you know, the propaganda worked too well. I was like, why like I kept forgetting who was who, I couldn't keep track of the political machinations, I couldn't keep track of like what magic was doing when isn't it really long too? It's very long. The book also spans like 25 years, maybe. And there's like the last two-thirds of just the first book not in the musical.
SPEAKER_02Okay, you just saved me $26.99 from Barnes Noble or whatever, because I was debating buying it, but I was like, let me I bet Book has read it, and here I am.
SPEAKER_07I I I struggled through probably like 150 pages, and I was on page like 150, and like they hadn't even gotten to school yet. Oh, and I had sat through like so much munchkin politics. Oh no. And I was like, you know what? I I don't think this is for me. I don't think this is for me.
SPEAKER_02Do you think that it is the worst written fanfic because of that? Like you if you're just not burning through it, you know? Like, is rather let me rephrase that, is Wicked like some of the most successful fanfiction ever written, then?
SPEAKER_07It is. I think it's like what's so impressive about it is that it's not fanfiction with the serial numbers filed off. It's like legitimate public domain fanfic. Yeah. It's like if there was a really popular Alice in Wonderland fan fiction.
SPEAKER_02Or like Gatsby, if someone did like a function. Dude, Gatsby book.
SPEAKER_07There's a cy a queer cyberpunk Gatsby book called Local Heavens that just came out that I am going to be reading this. See your very excited. Because Gatsby just became public domain like a couple years ago. Um, exercise though, of like you have very famous, like, you know, Fifty Shades, right, of course, etc. Um, I mean, technically, Dante's Inferno is still the most popular fanfic of all time. I'm not joking. It's literally it's fanfic.
SPEAKER_02Could we say the Bible is fanfic because they were all fans of our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ?
SPEAKER_07No, I mean, if anything, it's a biopic. It's a biography.
SPEAKER_02Biography with uh Yo, that biopic of Jesus was great. Uh sorry, I'm in movie mode. Wait, okay. Off that though, then, so does Wicked the Musical is that a fanfic of a fanfic?
SPEAKER_07It's a very loose adaptation. Right. If anything, okay, so let's say that like The Wizard of Oz is the kid's book.
SPEAKER_02Yes.
SPEAKER_07Wicked the novel Wicked The Life and Times of the Wicked Witch, the novel, is like hardcore adult.
SPEAKER_02Yeah.
SPEAKER_07Wicked, the musical, is like young adult middle grades, which is why the fan base is mostly 11 and 12 year olds.
SPEAKER_02I don't know what you mean, Brooke Solomon. I do not know what you mean.
SPEAKER_07I could not believe how much this movie like took the world by storm. But it made me very happy because it reminded me of like Barbie Summer, where I was like, if you make an unapologetically like female-centric, big blockbuster movie, like the people will come, the people will come.
SPEAKER_02And they will sing and they will have a good time. I was in the theater clapping.
SPEAKER_07I was so hyped for that because I don't like it's just so nice to not be siloed off into rom-com land and like have these things with like for me like fantasy elements and stuff like that. And yet, they will not green light a single book adaptation in period. It's so annoying. Whatever. But yeah, so the girls want Lord of the Rings too.
SPEAKER_02So you saw that's all I'm saying. You saw listen to the musical or whatever. You that did you eventually see it? What's the when did you become a fan of the stage? How did you feel? Because you famously, as we've talked about on our Wizard of Oz app, are a Naz head, you're an Ozian, a Nauseite. Um so how did you feel about it in comparison to Oz? I was in the Frank Albon books.
SPEAKER_07So I I think I was aware of like the actual like CD of the musical as soon as you could get it. By the time I got to Broadway to see it, when I was 14, I took a trip to New York to look at Juilliard. How did it look? Honestly, didn't love the tour. It was not nearly as musical theater focused as I thought it would be. They kept talking about classical music, and I was like, I'm I'm out.
SPEAKER_02They can't handle actress Solomon.
SPEAKER_07But also, I have horrible pitch. They would have laughed me out of auditions, but my parents indulged me, so that was nice. I went with my friend, who's actually a very like incredibly trained classical harpist. So she was also looking at Julia. She's a couple years older than me. Anyway, we saw Wicked and we saw The Lion King, and I had a great time. And I was like, New York first trip. My first time ever, like going to New York, being on Broadway. I saw it when there was like the giant clockwork dragon that's like on top of the stage, and it's time clock dragon. Yes, and I was like, this is so cool. I've never seen it. Yeah. I thought I thought that that was so cool.
SPEAKER_02It's the coolest, it is the sickest set deck ever. It rips. Does it have any impact in the story or the plot? No.
SPEAKER_07No, but it's there. It's it's all over the fucking book.
SPEAKER_02Why was it not in a magic movie? Like a shot of it, you know?
SPEAKER_07It's a great question. I mean, I have a lot of questions about the movie. What do you mean? It's perfect.
SPEAKER_02There's no notes.
SPEAKER_07Um, so that's my wicked. I was like a wicked head again when I was in middle school. I but I grew out of it pretty quickly. I don't look down on it. I'm just saying I wasn't like it's not like I would be like, ugh, but wicked though. I understand. Like forever. Yeah. Um I totally say ride or die for Princess Ozma related media.
SPEAKER_02Of course. Well, Oz itself is just like a queer place. A text, rather, you know, like whether it be the bomb books, this, whatever, like queerness has permeated the land of Oz forever.
SPEAKER_07Right. Is very is very queer. Yeah. Um, how about your history with Wicked?
SPEAKER_02I've told this a million times on the podcast in terms of no, no, no, not my relationship with Wicked, but just my story. So sixth grade, Miss Larson, bless up the Queen. Um, she was obsessed with Wicked, and she made our entire class obsessed with Wicked because we put on the Wizard of Oz, and in that we sang uh basically it was a Schmorgisberg of songs of like Wicked, um you know, the actual Wizard of Oz.
SPEAKER_07She was like, I'm gonna remix this.
SPEAKER_02She remixed it. So we had like um Dancing Through Life in there, uh Defying Gravity, etc. Um, alongside like all the classics, you know. So I was like very aware of the soundtrack of Wicked then, and I obviously, as a Wizard of Oz stan, became like immediately obsessed with the soundtrack, watched a bootleg at some point in high school, I can't remember when, but like was like really terrible, clocked to the T. Obviously, my life was changed, but I didn't see it. I had the vinyl uh all through college, was obsessed with the vinyl, listening to it again and again, did not see it. I did not see the stage production in person until I graduated college and saw the tour in Los Angeles. I got free tickets, I rushed with my friend Sebastian. We rushed, got tickets, uh, and it changed my life. I was like, oh, this is one of the most beautiful, grateful things I've ever seen in my life.
SPEAKER_07That's amazing.
SPEAKER_02And I think it like I think because I didn't see it in person for so long that I probably just was like so obsessed with the soundtrack that I'm still probably in that like wicked phase, you know? And I think like same. Yeah, and it just I think no matter how much I understand, like however I feel on the movie, however I know that it is made for 12-year-old girls or boys or they're thems, whatever, uh I hear popular, I hear certain songs, and I'm like, god damn, I am singing along. It just is like it's like one of those things that's impossible to avoid, you know? Me too. Yeah. So yeah.
SPEAKER_07I think the person that I am though is that I would rather, I think, put on the stage musicals than put on the movie soundtrack.
SPEAKER_02I agree a hundred percent. However, I think that Ariana Grande, some of her vocal things on popular I find very funny.
SPEAKER_07Like Oh, I love the Ariana Grande performance.
SPEAKER_02Her just like when she goes low or goes super into that like operatic voice, like it is so funny. So, like when I want that hit, I'll go to the movie, but like nine times out of ten, I'm going to the stage production version, you know.
SPEAKER_07I will basically always go to the stage production version of anything.
SPEAKER_02Anything, yeah.
SPEAKER_07Yeah. Yeah. Except, you know what I listened to a lot of? What was I up to? I listened to a lot of the greatest showmen. After I saw The Greatest Showman, that was a thing where I was like, I didn't like that one. But I was like, the songs? Yeah. And I listened. Yeah.
SPEAKER_02What's the one where he's at the bar? What's that? The other side. The other side.
SPEAKER_08That's really good. This is the best song.
SPEAKER_07It's really good. It's so good. They tap dance. Come on.
SPEAKER_02So also like a little homoerotic.
SPEAKER_07A little bit.
SPEAKER_02A little bit.
SPEAKER_07Not enough.
SPEAKER_02No. I would argue that. We will not be covering the greatest showman.
SPEAKER_07Um I I know that we're gonna do song rankings at some point.
SPEAKER_02Of course. Yeah. Um, no, but yeah, so I guess that was my relationship. I think like the movie, obviously, I did we did a double feature of that in Gladiator in the same day. We led with Wicked. Um, got the Wicked drinks, all that good stuff. I being in the theater, I think it was just like so fun and electric to be in a crowd that alive, you know? Uh, and it's sort of just like I think the kind of experience that people crave for the movies. Maybe some people find it annoying. I found it fun.
SPEAKER_07Um I do not find that annoying. I think if people are singing at the top of their lungs, that is annoying.
SPEAKER_02No one is singing the theater. Everyone was just like bumping along, you know.
SPEAKER_07I love a buzzy theater. I don't find anything about people's reaction to this movie or love of this movie annoying at all. I am not a wicked hater.
SPEAKER_02Yeah.
SPEAKER_07I'm not a wicked the movie hater at all. And like I think, like I said, it reminds me so much of Barbie Summer where it makes me so happy to see people like showing up in droves. I went to one of my friends here in North Carolina, hadn't seen Wicked. One of my other friends was like, we're throwing a watch party. She made themed drinks. Fun. She made themed snacks. She's an incredible like hostess, baker, etc. Like decked everything out in pink and green. So fun. And we all snuggled up and re-watched Wicked, and we had a mini sing along. It was great.
SPEAKER_02Did you have any of the did you buy into any of the Wicked Merchants? Did you have the Starbucks drink or any of that shit? No. Okay. Yeah.
SPEAKER_07I mean, aside from the aside from the theater cocktails, it doesn't seem like you did either.
SPEAKER_02Dude, the theater cocktails, I got fucked on those. Uh hey, that's good.
SPEAKER_07They made him strong.
SPEAKER_02I was let me tell you, when halfway through Gladiator 2, I was like, what is happening?
SPEAKER_07No, that was just the movie. Don't worry.
SPEAKER_02I felt the same way during Gladiator 2. I was like, what is like Paul Mescal's who what is it? What is it? Anyways, um I think yeah, no, let's talk about the making of this movie and the musical, and then get into the movie itself because I feel like that is fascinating in reading. Because I feel like it we are, I think, like the age. We're in the bracket. I feel like we're wicked hit us perfectly. The musical, you know.
SPEAKER_07Yeah, if we were like three years younger, we would probably be huge fucking Hamilton heads, but instead we're wicked heads. Well, no, we are huge Hamilton heads, but like I do want to be in the room where it happened. Yeah, but I'm like, I I never saw Hamilton on Broadway. Let's just say that. Well, I've seen it. Yeah. No, wait, no, I haven't. What am I saying? I've only seen the Disney Plus version. I've only seen the Disney Plus version.
SPEAKER_02The Disney Plus version's really good though, too. Yeah, it's great. Here's the thing. Shout out to past and future guest Baldan Dowd. Baldan tweeting every Wednesday, wait for it Wednesday. I had like reinvigorated my like wicked love. And she saw Wicked a few days ago. Hamilton, sorry. Uh, and we were DMing about Hamilton, and we were just being like, damn, Leslie Odin was just he's got the sauce, isn't it? So good.
SPEAKER_07And I'm like, Dude, Hamilton is that's one of my most millennial beliefs.
SPEAKER_02Yeah.
SPEAKER_07I like Hamilton rips.
SPEAKER_02I think also in the year of our Lord 2025, that type of woke, like I'm craving, you know.
SPEAKER_07We were talking about like living out. Also, I'm sorry, you think musical theater is cringe, you think musical theater is corny? Wow. That's no one has ever thought that before. Sometimes it just feels good to be a theater kid in an Applebee's, you know what I mean?
SPEAKER_02It really does. Honestly, like I was in New York a few weeks ago and like going and walking down, like through the theater, like passing the theaters and everything, and like seeing a show, and I was like, God, it just feels so good to feel like a child again, you know?
SPEAKER_07Yeah, I love theater. You're awesome. I love theater. I would say that most of the problems that I personally have with the Wicked Movie involve it straying from theater. Not that I needed to be a complete like copy and paste, but I think that sometimes it zigs film.
SPEAKER_02When it should be zagging, yeah.
SPEAKER_07Zigs MCU when it should be zagging Broadway.
SPEAKER_02I agree.
SPEAKER_07Um, but to your point, let's talk about the development.
SPEAKER_02Yes.
SPEAKER_07Um Travis Kelsey and Ariana Grande belong in the Manifestation Hall of Fame because this girl has been campaigning to play Glinda for like 10 fucking years.
SPEAKER_02Roll the tape back to whenever Brooke and I talked in person, and we talked, and I said that she would be in this movie.
SPEAKER_07And I was like, there's no way that they would ever cast her. And yet, I stand corrected. And she did great. That's the thing, I love this performance. I think she totally deserved it.
SPEAKER_02Um Cynthia Rebel also I found out had been campaigning for a very long time, which I didn't realize.
SPEAKER_07Honestly, like uh um like Defiant Gravity is one of the most difficult songs to sing.
SPEAKER_02You want to give us a little rendition?
SPEAKER_07I would rather die. Would you like to give us a little rendition?
SPEAKER_02Uh no.
SPEAKER_07Don't ask questions you're not prepared to answer.
SPEAKER_02Got my ass. Okay, wait. So the musical, the book come out in 1995, is like a word of mouth hit, blah, blah, blah. I think the cool thing about Maguire that we should talk about is that he's obviously openly gay. Yeah. Was one of the first gay marriages in Massachusetts. Massachusetts yet again stays winning. We just can't we cannot lose. Also, the musical's named Wicked. We're from New England. This has to be totemic, you know?
SPEAKER_07That's actually so true. I can't believe I never thought of that.
SPEAKER_02Every time I see Wicked, I'm like Wicked.
SPEAKER_07Wicked, though.
SPEAKER_02Wicked good. Um, okay, so the music, like the movie, they were trying to get like a manuscript adaptation of it, but like basically has been announced since 2012. Because I feel like our entire lives, I remember thinking that the Wicked musical was going to happen. I remember the Lady Gaga Sean Mendez version that was announced.
SPEAKER_08Yes. Insanity! Absolutely crazy.
SPEAKER_02We saved ourselves so much.
SPEAKER_07Yeah. Um, wait, is this the uh no, never mind. No.
SPEAKER_02Um Do you remember the Glee episode?
SPEAKER_07Of course.
SPEAKER_02Sorry, okay, yeah, good.
SPEAKER_07Jordan, how could I forget?
SPEAKER_02Sorry.
SPEAKER_07The ri This is the riff-off, right?
SPEAKER_02Yes.
SPEAKER_07Yeah. The current racial riff? Yeah, of course. Of course.
SPEAKER_02Our brains are so broken.
SPEAKER_07So Gregory Maguire, he does like this is like his thing. He does like revisionist fairy tales. Um, he had one called Mirror Mirror that I was like, oh my god, is this like the Lily Collins, like Julia Roberts Mirror Mirror? It's not.
SPEAKER_03Oh.
SPEAKER_07It's just weird.
SPEAKER_03Okay.
SPEAKER_07Um, hey, look, that's a, you know, if you're gonna do a snow white retelling, that's a pretty good name to yank. But this is like, this is his thing. This is what he does. It's a good bag if you can get it. Far and away like his most popular. But yes, he seems like a very nice man. Yeah. They have lived in Concord, Massachusetts since 1999.
SPEAKER_02Where my mom grew up. I go there all the time.
SPEAKER_07He's Catholic.
SPEAKER_02So he's covering both of our bases.
SPEAKER_07But also, you would watch this and you're like, yeah, that is a Catholic man from New England.
SPEAKER_02Wait, wait, wait, wait. Tell us why. Because I I watch this, zero religious read. So I'm obsessed that you're getting a religious read. Tell me why. Give me this.
SPEAKER_07Because it's all about like, first of all, it's all about like beware false gods, right? Right, okay, yes. A wizard. But I think the fact that I, I don't know, the animal rights storyline is always funny to me. Because I'm like, on one hand, I get it. Like it makes sense, right? You got the cowardly lion, you got the flying monkeys. Fair enough.
SPEAKER_03Sure.
SPEAKER_07Um, but then I'm also like, what? I know how did you come up with this? But I think the idea of like actual activism and like, you know, being being a good Christian, like at the ground level, bumping up against like the higher powers and their desire to keep things the way that they are and like hide the rot, that's come on. I like that the Catholic Church. Yeah, I mean, it's also like I think it's like politics. Power structures. Um, but I do think there's definitely like a religious element in terms of like the figures that they like hold up, especially you know, the good and evil. It's like you have like the Christ figure and the antichrist figure.
SPEAKER_02Yeah. Yeah. No, I I like that. I see, again, never my interpretation was always just the more socio-political commentary talking about race or outsiders othering, etc. So I like the fact that you can put a religious read to it though. That makes sense. And like basically do anything.
SPEAKER_07What and like who is Dorothy in this situation if, you know, X is Y and Which is so interesting because like Dorothy in both the book and I guess I shouldn't say anything.
SPEAKER_02Yeah, we can hold that. Hold that.
SPEAKER_07She's not she's not in it. I remember I remember very clearly when I went to see the musical on Broadway, there's not even an a really like an actress playing Dorothy. She's just kind of like a shadow. Yeah. Like she's like silhouetted behind like a screen.
SPEAKER_02Are you more pro silver shoes or Ruby shoes?
SPEAKER_07I have to be pro Silver Shoes because I'm a true Oz head.
SPEAKER_02So um I do like those Ruby slippers. I think the Ruby slippers are cuntier.
SPEAKER_07So well, yes. I think I talked about this in the Wizard of Oz episode, but look, that was like a year ago, my brain has forgotten. It was for Wicked! Whoa!
SPEAKER_02That was oh my god, it was a year ago. Wow, you're right.
SPEAKER_07That's so crazy. Time is not real. It's a flat circle. But Wicked can't use a specific design of the Emerald City. Yep. Um, or the Ruby slippers or specificities of how the witch looks.
SPEAKER_02Yeah, her green. They had to have a new shade of green, which is crazy to me. Yeah. Yeah. Never would have thought that.
SPEAKER_07But no Ruby slippers, those are owned by Metro Goldwyn Mayer.
SPEAKER_02You know what I watched between our Wizard of Oz commentary and this was I watched Oz the Great and Powerful just to get another hit of Oz. You know, I just was curious. Had to go back.
SPEAKER_08Crazy that you did that.
SPEAKER_02It was terrible.
SPEAKER_08It was actually worse than I remember. That movie is so bad. Really stinky poo-poo.
SPEAKER_02So bad. It made me actually so okay. Here's the okay, sorry. Put a pin in Oz the Great and Powerful because I have a rant in that that ties actually into Wicked, but I don't want to get too derailed yet, because we are staying focused. We're on a line.
SPEAKER_07But like when do you want to save it for? Because I'll bring it.
SPEAKER_02Well, because it's I think it's gonna be a larger conversation about our issues with the musical, the movie. I see, you know.
SPEAKER_07Uh there is a piece of Oz media that I've always wanted to watch, which I never have, which is Emerald City, which is a TV show that on NBC. Audria Arjona, one of the sexiest women in the entire world, is in it. She's Dorothy. What? Um, yeah.
SPEAKER_02Stop the pod. We have to go do some homework.
SPEAKER_07But it's one of those things where it's like you like you look at the synopsis and you're like, oh, this is just like some random fucking shit. So the same as Oz Great and Powerful, where you watch that and you're like, girl, what?
SPEAKER_02Yeah.
SPEAKER_07What are you talking about?
SPEAKER_02I think looking at the last bit of development for this, like a Rob Marshall version, a mangled, a Ryan Murphy were considered to direct, Stephen Jawdry was attacked for a long time, Zemek is considered. I think like these are all people in the in the vein. You know what I mean? I think John Shu gets it because of probably in the heights, X, everything that he had done before, you know what I mean?
SPEAKER_07I would have loved, I don't know. It depends what era of Rob Marshall. Because there's an era of Rob Marshall that I'm gonna stay away, but I wish that Rob Marshall just made 20 Chicago so that I could still be like Rob Marshall is like one of the greatest musical directors, and like nobody understands. Unfortunately, he's kind of just making whatever right now. Rob, we love you. You did good for the work. Brian Murphy would have crushed this, honestly.
SPEAKER_02Unfortunately, right.
SPEAKER_07Unfortunately, he would have been great as long as you keep him away from a laptop.
SPEAKER_02Yes.
SPEAKER_07Um, but I do think that John Mju made sense for this. And I quite like in the heights.
SPEAKER_02I like in the heights as well. Good morning, Gusnavi.
SPEAKER_07Good morning, Gusnavi.
SPEAKER_02Um The only thing that I feel bad about, which I feel like we'll probably talk about, but the in the Ariana Grande thing is the Amanda Seyfried. I just that girl either.
SPEAKER_08We could have had it all.
SPEAKER_02I feel so bad for her. But Ariana then comes in, so it's like you get some, you lose some, you know.
SPEAKER_07I think that the thing I love Amanda Seifrid so much because she is such a talented actress who takes on like really crazy and interesting roles.
SPEAKER_02I'm excited for the Shaker movie.
SPEAKER_07Yeah, the testament of Anne Lee. Anne Lee. Almost at An Dowd.
SPEAKER_02The testament of Bald Anne Dowd.
SPEAKER_07That's great.
SPEAKER_02That's funny.
SPEAKER_07Anyway, um, yeah, like and I think that, like, you know, this is not a knock to Ariana Grande. I don't necessarily see Ariana Grande doing that movie.
SPEAKER_02No, no.
SPEAKER_07I think I am always happy whenever Amanda Seyfred gets in her kind of like artsy film bag. I agree. Because I think she has the chops. Like her and Mank literally transcends the best part of Mank. Honestly, she doesn't need to play Glenda because she already has the Mank performance.
SPEAKER_02She is really good. Remember when Remember Mank?
SPEAKER_07Remember Mank?
SPEAKER_02Remember Mank. Did that show up on any of our quallies? Not mine. Not mine. Um the musical, so you saw it on Broadway, which I'm very lucky about. Did you see who was it Adina?
SPEAKER_07It was it was not Adina and Christian Chennewith. They had already, it had been renting for too long at that point.
SPEAKER_02But those were like, I mean, when we talk we already covered rent, obviously, with Adina, but like Chennewith, I feel like I guess for both of them, this is like the role that defies their lives, kind of forever, right?
SPEAKER_07Oh yeah. Oh yeah. I think that what's so crazy is that Adina Menzel had this and then she had Elsa.
SPEAKER_02Yes.
SPEAKER_07That's a crazy run. It's a crazy run. And of course, Rachel's mom on Glee.
SPEAKER_02Oh, of course.
SPEAKER_07Obviously.
SPEAKER_02But now that is the best performance.
SPEAKER_07For me, Kristen Chinawith will always be Glinda, mixed with like her popping up on like 30 Rock and Glee and stuff like that, where like she comes in is iconic and does her thing.
SPEAKER_02But yeah, I just think like the musical is forever like built upon that. I mean, like Steven Schwartz, I think like obviously he has done a lot of other things, and like I love like Enchanted, we covered on another podcast, which is incredible. Gotz Bell, Mocha Hondas, Hunchback. But like this is the one that like when you're writing up a no bit, this is the one that everyone's gonna talk about, you know. Uh, and like it's just kind of impossible to not love the stage production of it, I think, and like just the way that like the melodies flow into each other. I think like always going back to like unlimited is really fun, how they like keep hitting that beat a bit, you know. Yeah, all things like that just really fucking work for me. Uh, like I don't know.
SPEAKER_07I that's the beauty of going to see a stage show when you know the music and listening to the overture and being like, wow, I hear what you're doing.
SPEAKER_02Yeah, it's sort of like I feel like we've talked about this before. Maybe we haven't talked about it, I don't know, but I feel like it's the thing that's hot disgust in the theater kid community of the like Avenue QW over it. It is like re-watching Wicked and thinking about Wicked, though, like I I enjoy Avenue Q, but I do think it is a little bit batshit insane that like Wicked lost.
SPEAKER_07Yeah. But Wicked won the culture war. Do you know what I mean? I did. The Tonies felt great about awarding Avenue Q, and that's great for them.
SPEAKER_02Like, but like Wicked ran for however many years and made so much billions of dollars.
SPEAKER_07Yeah, so like they don't, it's it's all good. It's fine, yeah. It's all good, it's all love. I was so shocked that this movie tied the brutalist for the most Oscar noms last year.
SPEAKER_02It was crazy.
SPEAKER_07Ten noms.
SPEAKER_02Ten noms. And it won noms PD Costume.
SPEAKER_07Costume.
SPEAKER_02Did it just have two wins or three wins? I think two or three wins, right?
SPEAKER_07You're gonna need to give me a minute. Um ultimately won best costume design, of course. Paul Taswell. Huge deeply insane that he was the first black man to win best costume design. Considering possibly Ruth Carter was the first black woman to win costume design. Maybe in 2017. Absurd. Um, yeah, only one uh best costume design and best production design, which deserved. I love the PD in this, and I love the costumes. Oh man. You know what would be so great if I could see the PD.
SPEAKER_02Well, we'll get there. We'll get there.
SPEAKER_07We'll get there.
SPEAKER_02Nine million tulips planted. Can you see them?
SPEAKER_07I don't know. But you can see that those tulip fields make the lesbian flag.
SPEAKER_02So do they actually?
SPEAKER_07I mean, enough. In a way. If you if you come from the uh as a as a graduate of Tuntler University, if you come from the the internet school of colored flags, they make something like the lesbian flag.
SPEAKER_02Have you seen the meme that it's like when I'm a lesbian Glinda Truther and my opponent is Ariana Grande? Ariana Grande. That's you.
SPEAKER_07Yeah, I mean it's wild. Okay. Anything else you want to add about the musical? I just wanted to confirm that Ruthie Carter was in fact the first to win costume design. Insane. Insane.
SPEAKER_02Um Ariana Grande. She. Her.
SPEAKER_07She's so okay. Her.
SPEAKER_02How did it hold up for you on the rewatch?
SPEAKER_07Oh, she's awesome in this. But I and I think Cynthia Revo is also. Awesome. I agree. I have no qualms with either of them or Jonathan Bailey. Jonathan is like I mean the three of them care read. Care read. That was crazy. I also quite like Marissa Bode, unless it's Bode. I think it's Bode. Um, I think she's very good in this. I think she's really cute, and I'm excited for her to cook in part two.
SPEAKER_02Part two is really where she actually steps up to the plate. Yeah.
SPEAKER_07I'm excited.
SPEAKER_02I think that almost everyone is actually pretty well cast. I think there's one person Michelle Yeo? Yeah.
SPEAKER_07Yeah. I think it's really great that John M. She worked with her again, like after Crazy Rich Asians. I love it. It's awesome. However, I don't think she is doing a bad performance at all. I just think like you need, and she is a diva, but you need like a capital D diva. Yes. For example, you need like Audrey McDonald.
SPEAKER_02Yes, you need you need like a woman who had been on that stage who will like go off queen. You know, like it just it wasn't at for someone named Madame Morable, who guess what is horrible. Um, it wasn't big enough.
SPEAKER_07It reminds me of, I don't remember which Harry Potter parody it is, but someone's like, you're gonna be friends with Draco, the guy whose last name is literally the Latin root for bad. And it's like, yeah, Madame Morable, a totally normal lady.
SPEAKER_02Good person, A plus.
SPEAKER_07Um, I think that I can understand being like, we can't have everybody being big. We need some people to go like under the radar. Yeah. The thing is, when you watch this, you're like, there's no under the radar. There's room for everyone to be big. Yes. Because Grande is big, obviously. Are we thinking gives an amazing performance where like it's actually like very grounded and steady, but at the same time, she is doing like theater acting in a way that she should, where she can like meet Grande where she's at. Bailey's big, like Goldblum is is doing his thing.
SPEAKER_02I think Goldblum's actually a little subdued in it, which I think works. Like, I like how his performance in his singing is tempered. I think it's extremely funny how in the opening scene they try to hide that it's his voice. That it's his voice.
SPEAKER_07I guess like like I don't even count that as a spoiler.
SPEAKER_02That's not you can tell it's Jeff Goldblum. You know it's Jeff Goldblum.
SPEAKER_07He has way too distinctive of a voice. That was my first thought when I like sat down for the movie. Is I was like, am I gonna know this is Jeff Goldblum right away? Yes, you do. And I did.
SPEAKER_03Yeah.
SPEAKER_07Um, I know people have like knocked his singing. I think it's whatever. Sentimental man is a terrible song anyway.
SPEAKER_02Yes, it's no one if you're going to listen to it. You should have cut it. Right. No one's listening.
SPEAKER_07No one cares. Every it is it is canon. It is known. If you have a vinyl, there would be like like shiny, never touch spots on the vinyl over something bad and a sentimental man. Nobody ever fucking listens to those songs because they're bad.
SPEAKER_02Something bad.
SPEAKER_07Automatic skip. I also always skip I'm not that girl. I also skip I'm not that girl. It's also such an insanely hard song to sing. The final note is like a crazy low alto note that is just weird. Wild. Um, but some you know, to be fair, something bad has never been good in any iteration.
SPEAKER_02No, no.
SPEAKER_07Nor has a sentimental man.
SPEAKER_02These are facts. I'm not disputing.
SPEAKER_07What are you gonna do? Um, I agree with you that I think Michelle Yo is miscast. Not a hot take. Everybody kind of agrees. I don't think she's bad. She's just miscast. It's all good.
SPEAKER_02I just want Grande to get. Maybe I'm insane, but I do want Grande. I think like re-watching it, I was like, she is so tonally in the pocket in this movie. And I know she either won or came in second for the quality for me last year, but re-watching it again, I'm just like, it is her vocal talent, like outside of singing, is incredible, and how like in the pocket tonally she is, and how she can fluctuate her tone and her voice to match like her certain deliveries. But then when she sings and she does that fucking operatic thing, or like she does a little riff in her line readings, I don't know, it just like it's it's an incredible performance to me. It's just so good.
SPEAKER_07I don't think she would have ever won because I don't think the movie is good enough. No, I think that if I think that if the movie was better, she would have that incredible, like, oh girl, we didn't know you could do it. Like run to the Oscars, but I do not think the movie curried enough favor to give her the lift that she needed.
SPEAKER_02Right. That's I understand. That makes sense.
SPEAKER_07Now, there are plenty of acting winners in the past that have won for non-existent movies. Yes. But I think within the past few years won a big star from another medium, a la Agaga.
SPEAKER_02I think that's the real reason why Ronde.
SPEAKER_07If it but I I do think it's a combination of if it's that and if it's a comedy performance. Yeah.
SPEAKER_02It's hard, it's it's really hard for her to win.
SPEAKER_07You've got an uphill battle, and I think that the movie just isn't good enough.
SPEAKER_02Yeah, but like her opening when she's like, Oh, you missed me. It's so good to see me, isn't it? And she just like kind of like mutters to herself all the time, you know, like it's just she knows from the the get-go what movie she's in.
SPEAKER_07We can definitely go scene by scene of her performance if you want. Because it's this pretty incredible, like, screwball. Yeah, it's so good. I love when she is like squirming around on the floor and popular. And of course, when she flops down on the bed and then checks to make sure somebody's watching.
SPEAKER_02Exactly. It's giving like Madeline Kahn, is what I was thinking of. It's very Madeline Khan in like I mean, anything she's ever done, but it also makes sense because Madeline Khan obviously was also a stage actor, and so she had like this theater kid energy, which Grande obviously has as well, you know? And I think that despite the fact that Ariana Grande is, you know, whatever your qualms may be with her as a person, I'm like the performance itself is just like but people that didn't think she could pull this off.
SPEAKER_07I to be clear, I didn't think she couldn't pull it off. I was just like, there's no way they're gonna cast her because like they're gonna think that like she is right.
SPEAKER_02We need an actor actor or something.
SPEAKER_07We need an actor actor. Like people that don't think that she couldn't do this haven't been paying attention. Like, all the way back on like Sam and Cat and like Harley. Um, Hairspray Live when she's Penny Pingleton, it's a great performance.
SPEAKER_02Yes, she's always been good, she's really funny.
SPEAKER_07Scream queens, yeah.
SPEAKER_02Oh my god, yeah.
SPEAKER_07She has excellent comedic timing, yeah. And I think she enjoys acting because then she's not like Ariana Grande with comedic timing. You know what I mean?
SPEAKER_02She gets to actually do the characters, be someone, and I think her and Bailey really play off each other so well. It is really funny because it is the like a straight girly and a gay guy will be able to vibe out with their chemistry so hard, you know? And like the two of them is just unbelievable because they can get into that level of flirting that they both know no like boundaries will be crossed in another.
SPEAKER_07And it's this it's this amazing where it's like we're both the most important person in the world to ourselves, therefore we should get together and maximize, yes, and right, exactly. Like we are these shiny pretty things, so obviously we should just be together. Um that's great.
SPEAKER_02Bailey is great when he flirts with everybody. That's bisexuality.
SPEAKER_07Tansexual fiaro is so important to me. Yeah, I that I think is one of the strongest choices that was made. Yes, period. It just makes sense. It makes dancing through life so much fun. And he needs to own the screen for like 15 minutes because that song is so goddamn long. It's like a giant chunk of the story, and you cannot let it slip because you see times in this movie where they let the song slip, define gravity, and it's like you're dead. You're done, you're dead in the water, you cannot let go of the long time.
SPEAKER_02You need the momentum to be going.
SPEAKER_07You need to keep it up. Yeah, and Bailey keeps it up. He's so good in this movie, and I think that like obviously Arivo and Grande are excellent. Yeah, Bailey is helped by coming in so late to the movie, so he really feels like a jolt of energy. Yeah. Um, when he's hanging on those ladders in the library, the bookshelf shit was my favorite part of the movie.
SPEAKER_02Like rewatching it, just like as in terms of like a set piece for that shit's practical, it's really cool. Like that shit rocks, and I love what is this feeling as well. Like, those are the two where I feel like the movie has the best sense of like musicality and propulsion, and the sequencing feels really tight and the choreo feels really well put together, you know? And because we're out there, and like I love popular, obviously, it's like one of the best songs ever written. However, I think the issue with that no matter what, no matter who is shooting it, is you're stuck in a room, you know. Like I think there's a limit there, and I think it was fun, but I think like super cute, yeah. Yeah, but it's just like what is this feeling? We're dancing through the school, we're going through all this. This there's just so much emotion to it. Right. And then dancing through life, you go from the library to the Osdos ballroom to here to there, you know.
SPEAKER_07I think in the book, but this may be I may be speaking out of out of school. And the book, I do believe the Osdos Ballroom is like drug-fueled orgy. Of course.
SPEAKER_02Sure, why not?
SPEAKER_07As far as I know.
SPEAKER_02I I would believe that I think you're right, because I know there is an orgy in it. I know like Glinda and Alphabet kiss in the book as well.
SPEAKER_07Yeah, they do. Yeah. I didn't even get to that. Do you know how bad? Well, not bad. Again, it just wasn't for me. Do you know how much I have to be struggling through a book to know that there's a gay kiss and not get to it?
SPEAKER_02Like to know that it's canon, it's clean to not get a kid. And I'm like, you know what?
SPEAKER_07I it's it's fine. Like, whatever.
SPEAKER_02That is pretty actually damning, I would say.
SPEAKER_07A little bit.
SPEAKER_02Jesus.
SPEAKER_08Um Should we talk about the canon itself?
SPEAKER_02Because I feel like Glinda and Alphabet are like the most like, and they were for roommates slash friends. They were literally kind of like all time.
SPEAKER_07Gelfi is canon. I honestly don't understand why Fiero is in the story, period. It does feel like it, whether it's McGuire writing in the 90s and then like being adapted for Broadway. I mean, I think we've talked about it before, but Broadway is one of those crazy things where it's like everybody is gay, but routinely the plays that make it to like Broadway proper are so deeply heterosexual. Yes. And you're like, something got lost here. It reminds me of like old Hollywood, you know? Where they were like, guys, we can't let them know.
SPEAKER_02Right, we all know, but we can't know.
SPEAKER_07Yes. And Wicked, I think, is an example of that, where at every iteration, like going through, you're just like, why is he standing between their love? Not that it's his fault, like he's just kind of chilling. Right. But it narratively doesn't make a lot of sense. I was even thinking about when you're like, oh, Alphaba and Fiero, or sorry, Glinda and Fiero are so like perfect on paper for each other. Alphaba changes both of them in exactly the same way. Because they start out as the same character, right? And then they evolve into separate versions of the same character. They have the same arc.
SPEAKER_02Yes. And they no spoilers, but like some obviously stuff happens between the two of them, etc. And like if you are fucking a cognizant alive human and you watch the first wicked, you can tell that there's something between Fear and Alphabet, obviously. That's that's no question.
SPEAKER_10Right.
SPEAKER_02Yeah.
SPEAKER_10So Hey, our ride's almost here. Are you ready? Just grabbing my shoes.
SPEAKER_09That's what you said ten minutes ago.
SPEAKER_05I just dropped the video call, uploading this giant file on my tablet, looking at my watch go bananas with the group chat, and of course, still lining up tonight's playlist on my phone.
SPEAKER_00All at once?
SPEAKER_05Yep. Story of my life. That's why I switched to T-Mobile. They have the fastest 5G network.
SPEAKER_11Okay, multitasker. That's to you.
SPEAKER_05Honestly, I never imagined I could do all this at once. Awesome.
SPEAKER_12Say no more, I'm totally switching. My post is taking way too long to upload.
SPEAKER_04That's a sign you've got to get T-Mobile.com.
SPEAKER_01That's just based on analysis by October Speed Test Intelligence data national speed score results, incorporating 5G download and upload speeds for the first half of 2026.
SPEAKER_02Steven Schwartz obviously is now I don't think he's ever officially said he's gay. Maybe he said he's gay, but he's like in a relationship with a man, um having had like a family, etc. And like I think, you know, he is obviously very aware of this relationship between these two women. He's talked about like how what is this feeling is like a romance song that is pitched between two women. It's like this whole the whole thing about Wicked is that it's structured like a love musical. You know what I mean? It's like a classic enemies to lovers story, but about like these two women instead of like a man and a woman. And so when you're building a movie, a musical, what have you, on that relationship between these two women, obviously there's going to be queerness that stems from it. And I think like every actor has known about it. Like Ariana fucking posts about it that she's a lesbian, fucking Kristen China with, etc. So like everyone knows that this is a queer relationship and that it's intrinsic to the character itself.
SPEAKER_07Galinda Upland is up there with Regina George as like 100% the biggest compat lesbian. That's the thing, yes. Um, while we're on this topic, yes, we need to address two things. Sure. One, the fact that I saw this tweet and I will never forget it. Oh boy, that being like Ariana Grande and Ethan Slater were the only two heteroes on that set. They had no choice but to fall for each other. Because almost everyone else in the cast is gay. Especially like the quote unquote the young people. Right. Like who they were all filming with.
SPEAKER_02Did you did you write down who? Because I I wrote down who because I was like Please take it away. Arivo, queer, Bailey, gay, Marissa, Marissa, right? Yeah, gay, Nessa Rose. Bowen, duh, Bronwyn James, yes, and Shannon D. Clark, of course, as Dulcie Bear. It's also gay. Bowen, I thought, is like re-watching this. I thought Bowen is so fun. I enjoy like the three lines he gets when he's flirting with Jonathan Bailey, same with John like Bronwyn, etc. So like right. There is a queerness to all these performances and like a cast of queer people that like seeps through fucking everything in this.
SPEAKER_07Exactly. So that was the first thing.
SPEAKER_02Second thing.
SPEAKER_07Second thing, we have to talk about the press tour.
SPEAKER_02What press tour? I don't know what to do. I think it was a normal press tour.
SPEAKER_07That Cynthia Revo and Ariana Grande went on. Do you want to hold space? Okay. The matching tattoos, they have like three matching tattoos. They have multiple matching wicked tattoos. People will post, like, um uh I'm trying to remember what their ship name is. I don't remember. But they'll be like uh Cynthia Ari photos that look like wedding pictures, and there's like 20 of them. Of course. Do you know why? Because Arivo's always in like black or something dark, and Ariana Grande is in these big fluffy like white and pink dresses. They look like they're getting buried in every single photo shoot.
SPEAKER_02They're so close. They're so like their brains like melted onset into one another.
SPEAKER_07That, okay. So, yes, the press tour was a moment. It is delightful. I am slightly worried about like the mind meld that they went through. Yeah. I'm afraid they got a little too close. I like it. Like, guys, we maybe need some time. Push it further. Worked. I do love, I love a crazy press tour. Yeah, as you know.
SPEAKER_02I think the junket is not big enough this year. Like, I think because they know they pushed the bar too far last year.
SPEAKER_07When I was watching Wicked, I was like, I haven't gotten one unhinged wicked press tour moment.
SPEAKER_02Yeah. Like when they were holding the nail, like everything. Like it was Wicked was everywhere. You know what I mean? I think I think I wrote down the marketing just into because I was I was like was gagged by it.
SPEAKER_07I mean, the marketing is gay as shit. It reminds me of the Star is Born press tour, one of my favorite press tours of all time.
SPEAKER_02350 million with 450 promotional partners. That is crazy.
SPEAKER_07Well, it was Wicked Wicked Everything.
SPEAKER_02It was Wicked Everything.
SPEAKER_07Um, I will say, do you remember? So the official website is like wickedmovie.com and there were dolls. Do you remember this? Yeah, there were dolls that were released with Wicked.com listed on the back. Wicked.com is an adult website. Do not go to it. Um, it was so big that there's like you forget about certain scandals because there was just so much press tour content to consume. Like you were just getting smacked in the face over and over again.
SPEAKER_02It's like our current political climate when everything is bad and just keeps happening. You forget everything.
SPEAKER_07Why did you have to do that to me? Apparently, there are potential theme park attractions.
SPEAKER_02Yes, I'm very aware of this.
SPEAKER_07Of course, you're very aware of this.
SPEAKER_02Like there was previously already a wicked themed attraction out of Universal before. It doesn't was not great. I think what they're going to do to all my two on my crackhead theory is that the Fast and the Furious on the Backlot tour is being closed because, of course, Fast and the Furious racers drifting, whatever, the like roller coaster that's coming to Universal Studios Hollywood opening in 2026. We will be riding it for the podcast and covering it in a special episode of Q Fast, Q Furious presents Universal Studios Um the Fast and Furious ride.
SPEAKER_07Hang on. I I I I didn't know that was happening.
SPEAKER_02Well, it's not happening now.
SPEAKER_07That was my wicked press tour moment.
SPEAKER_02That was good. That was good. Um, so yeah, I think they're just gonna replace the like fast and the furious part of the backlot tour with something wickedy. That's my theory. Alright, that's a good theory. That's my point. Makes sense. Makes sense.
SPEAKER_07It's a it's a bona fide, like, you know, moment brand. Woo, the verticals. Of course.
SPEAKER_02Brand integration, baby. There's nothing I love more. Verticals. Um in terms of like the themes of wicked, the queerness, I mean, like, Defying Gravity, I feel like everyone talks about it as like a queer liberation anthem, right? Definitely. Like going out on your own, etc. Like every song has a queer coding to it. I don't know. Like, just reading about it online.
SPEAKER_07I was just what's gayer, gay sex, or what is this feeling?
SPEAKER_02Right, literally, it's just about flirting with one another and developing a crush.
SPEAKER_07Yeah. It is the song is notably poking fun at that.
SPEAKER_02Yeah. I think that's just the thing, is like I was just shocked by how many people were questioning if Wicked was queer when I feel like it is just so textually in the DNA of it. From just like outside of just if we're looking at it, just you know, I feel like a lot of movies we cover, we are pulling in, we're like, oh, okay, it's about like an outsider, yes, and this like oppression. I feel like if Wicked was just Alphabet, we could have the read where it's like, yeah, it's just about alphabet, who's this outsider who struggles against the system of oppression, etc. etc. But then like within that, you then also have like this relationship, which I think is what exacerbates sort of all the other feelings in it, you know.
SPEAKER_07Yeah, and it's so classic. Like, not only are they experimenting in college, dare I say, but it is truly like what would you do if you fell in love with the most popular girl at school? It's got that amazing, like, whatever. I hesitate to call it butch femme. I mean, the press tour actually is like low-key super butch femme.
SPEAKER_02I would argue it is.
SPEAKER_07Like, it's it's got that sort of like high femme soft mask, of course, uh, just very lesbian energy to it. Like, again, Glinda, Regina George, everything's pink, everything is big.
SPEAKER_02I am fitting into the compulsory idea of heterosexuality.
SPEAKER_07But also, like, I think what what Chapelrown has done for femme lesbians cannot be overstated. Like, the knowledge, and I like I've known this for like years, but the knowledge that if you see a girl who's like really girly girled the fuck out, she's probably a lesbian. Right. Because whatever, men don't like that. But like, it's like the spectrum of dressing for the female gaze is you're either masking it up, or you are like, I'm gonna wear so much pink and glitter and be so unapologetically myself that it will like repel men and turment, yeah.
SPEAKER_02Which rocks. Just because I mean a huge for the uh me as a pink stand, pink the being the best color ever, you know. I understand.
SPEAKER_07Um, I did hear that black is this year's pink though, so you might be in trouble.
unknownFuck.
SPEAKER_02I did hear a rumor that a r uh a scarecrow once told me that, but you know.
SPEAKER_07But pink does go good with green.
SPEAKER_02Oh, thank gosh.
SPEAKER_07Cosmo and Wanda ain't like I think Cosmo and Wanda have officially been replaced by Clinton Alphabet.
SPEAKER_02Damn Cosmo and they they owe some residuals.
SPEAKER_07I know.
SPEAKER_02That's crazy.
SPEAKER_07Fell off the pink and green combo.
SPEAKER_02It always works. It's clean.
SPEAKER_07SMH. It's clean. It's very pre I think of it as very preppy. Like pink and green like Czech. You know, very like Lily Pulitzer. It's Lily.
SPEAKER_02It's extremely Lil' Pulitzer. That's actually a good reason.
SPEAKER_07You neon it up, all of a sudden it's very like brat gaga.
SPEAKER_02Right.
SPEAKER_07You know, nightclub world.
SPEAKER_02Well, the black and the pink of it all, it feels very like gaga-y in a way.
SPEAKER_07I was gonna say, and if you go like neon pink, neon green black plaid, that's like, you know, emo world. Right. So I mean this pink and green, everyone everyone can find their niche in the pink and green community.
SPEAKER_02This is living in a world of hot topic. Like wicked dogs.
SPEAKER_07The wicked hot topic collabs were. Exactly.
SPEAKER_02Like it lives in that kind of nightmare before Christmas. You can wear this if you want to be a theater kid, but you can also wear this if you have a little bit of like goth tendencies because of Alpha, etc. You know? Yeah. Or if you're just a preppy girly girl or gay, like you can gravitate to whoever on the spectrum.
SPEAKER_07Yeah. I really do love the costuming in this movie. Um I think big every outfit is perfection.
SPEAKER_02Yeah.
SPEAKER_07Um big ass cape. Big ass cape. I don't like that the cape gets magically bigger. I know that's a stupid thing to quibble about. I think it's whatever, it's all good. Um, yeah, like the fact that Elf of or Glinda has fancy pink versions of like the school outfits is always really funny to me. I love when custom fits. Uh I I love when when movies do that. Uh, I'm also very into this. The Hunger Games, the Valid of Songbirds and Snakes had something similar. I'm very into this like gender-neutral uniform situation.
SPEAKER_02Where like it's kind of like a skirt kind of thing, yeah.
SPEAKER_07Kill situation with pants and a blazer. Honestly, look up like Valid of Songbirds and Snakes because they have like academy uniforms or whatever. It's the same thing they have. Yeah, it's like a skirt pant combo. I remember that tall blonde twink in that. Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.
SPEAKER_02Whatever his name is his name again.
SPEAKER_07Tom Blythe.
SPEAKER_02Tom Blythe, right. Love it.
SPEAKER_07He's pretty good. Dude, he's great.
SPEAKER_02Yeah. He could fit in.
SPEAKER_07And he's been making great choices.
SPEAKER_02What does he oh is he was in plain clothes this year?
SPEAKER_07He was in plain clothes. He was just in a Paris Paloma music video.
SPEAKER_02Sure.
SPEAKER_07Like, oh.
SPEAKER_02What is he doing?
SPEAKER_07He get I get him. And he gets me.
SPEAKER_02And I'm learning something new. I was not expecting this.
SPEAKER_07Uh no, it's more like whatever. There are no sexual urges. You you come to me as a long lost friend.
SPEAKER_02Oh, good. I love that. It's even funnier. I want I feel like the hair, as someone who is growing out their hair, but it does not have long hair. But I will never have the length, but like the thing Ariana does with her hair where she like swish swish is like it's so fun. It's so good. I wish I had long hair to be able to do that. Toss toss. You could toss-toss.
SPEAKER_07I can I can I have toss-tossed in my day.
SPEAKER_02Yeah. I feel like toss toss singularing was huge for you know the Sean White hair of the era, the bust Justin Bieber hair, etc. Yeah.
SPEAKER_07I will also, I love to now in my everyday life, like as a comedy bit, do a little like hair flip.
SPEAKER_02A flip? Yeah.
SPEAKER_07Do you know what I mean? It's like the equivalent of like doing like a little hair twirl.
SPEAKER_02Uh-huh. This is actually you've been there. I've started doing the like hunting tuck behind the Debbie Ryan tuck. Yeah.
SPEAKER_07Yeah.
SPEAKER_02I'll do it with like a tongue.
SPEAKER_07Hair, hariography is hariography. Hariography. It's real. It's good. It's a real thing.
SPEAKER_02It is.
SPEAKER_07Um, it's very important. I also really love, I wanted to, I just want to take a moment and talk about how much I love Alphaba's design in terms of like makeup, hair, nails. The micro braids, fabulous. The micro braids are really great. Fabulous. Uh Cynthia Revo has this um like uh she was asked about it, like, oh, what's up with kind of like the hair and the nails, and sort of this glam version of Alphaba, who in the stage play is very kind of like dowdy.
SPEAKER_02Stripped down kind of nothingness, yeah.
SPEAKER_07Yeah. And she was like, it's a nod to my culture, but it's also a nod to kind of like, you know, this fantastic world of Oz. And she was like, I see Alphaba's nails as just being something that like grow out the same way that her magic does. Like, she doesn't really know what to do with them, they're just kind of there. And I'm like, I love that like it's like the intrinsic cuntiness of her character. Because I there have been some high quality videos of being like Alphabra's braider and nail tech getting called at 3 a.m. the night before whenever Fiero's coming to visit the castle.
SPEAKER_02It's not a person though, it's like an animal, it's like a jaguar out there getting them already, you know.
SPEAKER_07Is that problematic though?
SPEAKER_02Oh. Probably has tried cancel me.
SPEAKER_07I don't know. Um, but I I love it. And I really love her makeup. Like, I think it's so great that they obviously made her green, but then what? Whoa, but really kind of like I don't know. I like I love the kind of shade that they do on her lips versus her face. I love the freckles, I love kind of like how she she Cynthia Riva has such amazing features and like the way that they hire the bones. It's very striking. I think that it really elevates the whole makeup look from just being like, you painted someone green. Yeah. And here's the colour.
SPEAKER_02No, there was intention behind everything.
SPEAKER_07Yeah, I was watching um, like I was I was watching the Defiant Gravity Never, and I was like, God, that lip color is so good, even though it's green. It just it's the tone match, like sh suits her so well. And I love that, like I said, the freckles I think are like so perfect. And when she when Cynthia Revo cries, oh my god, and her eyes get really red, yeah, and like you have her sort of like red eyes juxtaposed against the green, it looks amazing.
SPEAKER_02I think about that. The Osda's ballroom, like that emotional scene between her and Galinda always just gets me because like her tears are so fucking raw, and then Grande's performance of like recognizing that maybe she was a little bit of a shithead, it just really plays well. And then she does the fucking stupid hand thing, but the little hand thing.
SPEAKER_07It's so gay.
SPEAKER_02It's so gay. I know.
SPEAKER_07I can we pick, can you pickest moment personal gayest moment?
SPEAKER_02I saw this coming from a mile away. Ooh. It's gotta be like that first hand touch in there, right?
SPEAKER_07Or something like that where they're spallroom when they're they yeah.
SPEAKER_02Or like when they jump on the train and they tackle each other and they're giggling.
SPEAKER_07Or I said pick one.
SPEAKER_02I said pick one.
SPEAKER_07Wow. I let's not quarrel. This is our first fight. Our first fight. You're gonna leave. I just stunned you silent. I'm sorry.
SPEAKER_02You know, I was just trying to think of other ones because it's kind of the any interaction between the two of them is kind of what is yours then.
SPEAKER_07Okay. What is yours? I think it's in the middle of popular when she turns them to the mirror and she says, Oh, Miss Alpha, look at you.
SPEAKER_02Oh, sure.
SPEAKER_07You're beautiful. I mean, all popular that is again that level of kind of like rawness where okay, maybe she's like never had anyone tell her that she's beautiful before, but also the ache that you get deep in your heart when a beautiful girl tells you you're pretty.
SPEAKER_02Yes.
SPEAKER_07It's just so lesbian.
SPEAKER_02Yeah. I think that this movie captures that like weirdly high school and college feeling of both like I wrote this down in my notes. When Jonathan Bailey shows up, there's something about a new kid showing up. Because I remember this like happening in ninth grade, exactly, where everyone fucking pines after them, and then the hot person, you see their machinations happening, and you know as not as hot of a person that you will never be able to score that person, you know?
SPEAKER_07That you're not that girl.
SPEAKER_02That you oh, maybe that song is good. Uh, but you know, I think it captures, and this is just in the musical, I think itself, but it it taps into those like raw feelings that I think we all feel really well.
SPEAKER_07This is a great movie about going to high school, which is why I think it resonates with high schoolers.
SPEAKER_02Yeah.
SPEAKER_07Just about how Hamilton is low-key a movie about being in grad school.
SPEAKER_02That's fucked, but true.
SPEAKER_07Which is why it resonates with a lot of college kids and postgrads.
SPEAKER_02We just want to be in the room where it happened.
SPEAKER_07Yes, but I really do agree with you that every interaction between Elphaba and Gelinda is quite gay because it starts as this amazing, there's a fine line between love and hate relationship, and then it evolves into this really beautiful and true friendship, even in um during one short day. The we're just two friends, two best friends, friends, and like the way she says it is so like vulnerable.
SPEAKER_02Yeah. That whole sequence I also really love when we're yeah, because it's an actual practical set, so you're moving through it, you feel it. I think the Chenwith and Adina cameos are fun. I enjoy it.
SPEAKER_07Of course they're fun. Again, saying that knocking this movie for being corny is like like, why are you even here? Right.
SPEAKER_02You know, I mean, like from the train forward, I think it's like like the whole riff on the platform where it's like, oh, come here, darling, come come. He's not thinking, like, all that stuff I found very fun. Um, I think like this ties the only issue I have with that is I feel like then the CG of Oz itself. I don't think we're ever maybe this is because I'm too like in love with The Wizard of Oz 1939, but I feel like I just don't think we've ever captured Oz as good as that movie. And I think like this movie comes the closest with that sequence when we're dancing through everything and we see the quadlings and like there's all of that, you know, the hammerheads or whatever, and like we have just like this dynamic energy to it, and everyone's coming around. Like that feeling feels the most Oz in a way, you know. Um, which I liked, but then like you cut to the outside and you see the CG world of Oz, and it just doesn't feel as good. And I don't know if it's like cause it's not a map painting, like I don't know what it is, but it will never feel as good.
SPEAKER_07It's time for me to complain.
SPEAKER_02Please complain. I support you.
SPEAKER_07This movie feels about half as magical as it should. And I think it is because I my my first letterbox review when I saw it was the MCU efication of Oz, and it has that horrible flat backlit, like gray look to it that for me like kills so much of what could be like transcendent about this movie, and that in the way that like the way that a movie like La La Land uses color and uses contrast and uses like these really deep, rich technicolor style visual elements to make it feel simultaneously like a contemporary, you know, it's a contemporary film, it's shot on film, like you can like feel whatever the VistaVision. Um but at the same time, like this beautiful classical, like out of time, like the colors are just soaking through the screen. Um if Wicked had that, I shit you not, I think it would be about 30% better. And I'll explain why.
SPEAKER_02No, I'll explain why I do agree with you. I think the blacks aren't crushed at all, it sort of feels washed out, you know.
SPEAKER_07Why is everyone backlit at all times? It I think it feels so honestly, it really feels so unnatural to me because um it weirdly enough takes you out of Oz. Yeah, you're like, well, but why would the people in the magical land of Oz um film this dance sequence with the sun shining behind it?
SPEAKER_02Right, why would there be a sun like that? Yeah.
SPEAKER_07It's kind of John M. Shu's like thing. It's his thing. It's fucking all over in the heights, and in the heights has lots of CG, but it kind of does have that fantasy element to it, but I feel like it's because it's like set in New York, like it's in a tangible place that we're familiar with.
SPEAKER_02So it's like grounding almost.
SPEAKER_07Yeah, exactly. Like bringing in the CG and the grading here to the land of Oz to me, like really cheapens it. Like I want this to feel like I have the same fucking problem with Oz the Great and Powerful.
SPEAKER_02That well, that was my note is that like when we go to Oz in Oz the Great and Powerful, it never feels like it does in the original movie, and I think it's because everyone tries to overdo it. And I think that's what I'm realizing now is like a CG, you can do so much, and people think that they should push the bar for what we see with it and make it feel so grand and opulent and etc. But I think like what makes the first movie so good is it's so simple, it's like a green kind of castle, and then we go in and it's just a lot of things laid out and it's green, you know. It's a sound stage, it's just a stage, exactly. And like that's why I like Osmania or whatever, is because it is just a stage and you can feel it's a stage, but like that light because of that, you can't be backlit in there, also because everything is a corner in a shop, you know?
SPEAKER_07Fucking kills me. I was thinking about this when I was watching A Sentimental Man, and I was like, it's so fucked up that this is the song that looks the best. Yes. Can't stand the song, but it looks great because he's putting on a little show for them. It's the Wisdomania stuff. But I was like, whoa, contrast, what a concept! Yes, the greens are actually green, the reds are actually red. Um, and it's so weird to me because there was so much practical work that was done for Wicked. They built that train, they planted 10 bajillion tulips, they built those rotating library bookshelves, and they look like awful.
SPEAKER_08Not as good as they should look, yeah.
SPEAKER_07They're completely washed out and like backlit. It's like it would be like if you were watching this on stage and instead of the spotlights pointing at the performance, shown them directly at you.
SPEAKER_02Yeah.
SPEAKER_07I really it like I think it's the most in Defiant Gravity for me, honestly.
SPEAKER_02I think like that is where you feel it the most because I think I think that number itself is where you feel the movies butchering the most.
SPEAKER_07This rendition of Defiant Gravity is too cut up.
SPEAKER_02It's too cut up. You you are you are building to what should be going to act two, going into this triumphant finale. It is without a doubt one of the best end of act one songs, maybe ever. You know what I mean? Like, that is a triumphant like midpoint to your musical. It is unbelievable. And the fact that we are cutting from her, you start to sing, you cut back down, you fall off the roof, you're getting the you know, it's just too much cutting around, and we're seeing too much of the guards and all this fucking bullshit, and like the music should just be ramping up as Defying Gravity does in the stage, and then we are out. And I think like the over-CGification of everything in there just makes it such a fucking bummer.
SPEAKER_07I hate how it looks. I and I hate the like weird again, she's so backlit the whole time. Um, I think you can use it every now and then, but the fact that every song just has that like awful backlighting to it, and the outdoor the outdoor shiz scenes look really awful. Everything's I think it looks great.
SPEAKER_02In what is this feeling? I think that looks pretty fine.
SPEAKER_07I think in their bedroom looks nice when it's the hot pink and the green as soon as they step outside. Um, but again, I don't I don't always go this hard.
SPEAKER_02No, but I think it is detrimental, something like visuals.
SPEAKER_07I think it's truly detrimental to like this is a magical piece of filmmaking slash cinema, and I really do think that it would give a huge boost to the movie, along with again that last like 20 minutes. We need to lose the balloon, and the movie's already two hours and 45 minutes.
SPEAKER_03Lose the balloon.
SPEAKER_07Nobody cares. No, I think that that's when it's like you can feel the studio notes, you know. We need an action sequence. That's the fact that we need again, it's the zig towards gravity. It's the it's the zig towards studio when it should be the zag towards Broadway. Yeah, get us a define gravity, like literally have the audience holding their breath like they are during Dancing Through Life, even though you can't see anything. That's pretty impressive. And then, yeah, like you said, smash the black, get us out of there.
SPEAKER_02Right, exactly. It's like too much cutting back and like exploding and everything. It's just hold on the fucking shot, you know. And like we cut even like on her big final riff, which is obviously iconic. Um yeah, it's great. She sounds great, she sounds great, but like there's there's like three cuts in there, and I'm like, just hold on her because she's hitting this note that is fucking unbelievable, you know.
SPEAKER_07Let her do her thing, let her have her momentum.
SPEAKER_02Exactly. Uh no, it is a bummer, and I think it is like uh the thing that I bump on the most, is which is so hard because like I want to unabashedly love this and think it is perfect, and the fact that it's not, I think is where it's like disappointing because it comes from these sort of like filmic choices that I think when you are watching the Broadway show, don't impact you because you don't have to think about those things, you know. Like instead, she's just lifted in the fucking air and then flies away, and then she goes to her big red sequoia tree.
SPEAKER_07Um, so yep, she's gonna fuck that tree.
SPEAKER_02She's gonna fuck that tree.
SPEAKER_07For anyone that is unaware, Adina Menzelple is a lesbian who wants to climb a redwood tree for some reason.
SPEAKER_02Yeah, I don't know why. I will never find out why. Um my only other big note, similarly, is in similarly in one short day or whatever, like the uh when they go, the wizard will see you now, they don't go big on it. He kind of just goes, the wizard will see you now. And in the musical version, it's huge. It's huge. They like scream it, and I think it is a bit of a come down. Every time I listen, I'm just like, Why do we just not yell? Like, why is it just like spoken? Like, why is it not shouted?
SPEAKER_07You know, you can go big, like there's no such thing as going too big. It's a musical, as we saw, like it's you're you don't need uh like Aurillo and Grande have such a good balance that everyone could have gone as big as possible. Um, yeah, that when you were talking about the Emerald City sequence, I just remember the first time I saw it in the theater, I was like, it's not even that green. And I was so sad. Just needed to be more green. It's kind of like grayish, washed out. What? Oh, it's technicolor.
SPEAKER_02Did you like did you like the new wizard? Did you like the puppeteering wizard?
SPEAKER_07Yeah, it's cool.
SPEAKER_02I like the wizard face.
SPEAKER_07Yeah. Um, oh, also, we need to lose the yellow brick road sequence. It I bro. It's rough.
SPEAKER_02Okay, so here's the thing is that like what color should this road be? Pink, yellow, I don't know.
SPEAKER_07Like this movie more than I do. Yeah. But I'm pretty neutral on the musical as well. Like, the songs, incredible, the performances, incredible, but it never really comes together for me enough to stand. So when I was going into this movie, I was like, well, you know, I mean, the songs. And then I walked out and I was like, yeah. And I think that for people that were not into theater, they discovered it for the first time and were swept up in how obviously great like the songs and the performances are, and that's totally valid and cool of them. But I was not let down by this movie because I didn't have expectations for it.
SPEAKER_02And like from the first trailer, I was like, this looks I don't think I was let down because I think I also saw like the coloring, etc. So I was very aware of how that was gonna play, and there were some like early reviews, etc. So I feel like I wasn't let down, I was just like wanted it to hit harder, you know. But I think also the thing is I'm more nervous about Wicked Part 2, I think, than I am for this one because part two famously like while it has some bangers, it doesn't have the fucking like lineup that this movie does, where it's just like every song minus two songs is kind of like a stone gold classic, you know.
SPEAKER_07That's what everyone was worried about with doing Wicked Part One and then Wicked for good, is that this is already a very common musical problem, is that act one is front loaded with all your good songs and then act two tends to nosedive off cliff. Wicked is a really great example of that.
SPEAKER_10Hey, our ride's almost here. Are you ready? Just grabbing my shoes.
SPEAKER_09That's what you said ten minutes ago.
SPEAKER_05I just dropped the video call, uploading this giant file on my tablet, looking at my watch go bananas with the group chat, and of course, still lining up tonight's playlist on my phone.
SPEAKER_00All at once?
SPEAKER_05Yep, story of my life. That's why I switched to T-Mobile. They have the fastest 5G network.
SPEAKER_11Okay, multitasker. That's to you.
SPEAKER_05Honestly, I never imagined I could do all this at once. Awesome.
SPEAKER_12Say no more, I'm totally switching. My post is taking way too long to upload.
SPEAKER_05That's a sign you've got to get T-Mobile.
SPEAKER_04So many reasons to join Team Mobile. Find yours at teammobile.com.
SPEAKER_01That's just based on analysis by Upload Speed Test Intelligence Data National Speed Score Results Incorporating 5G download and upload speeds for the first half of 2026.
SPEAKER_07For good is good. For good is good. And um Alphaba has a good song has a good song that I like.
SPEAKER_02Glenda's reprise of I'm not that girl is fine.
SPEAKER_07It's fine! I I just don't like that song, but you know me, I'm a I'm a ballad hater. It has to be a power ballad. It has to be a bad.
SPEAKER_02Which is defining gravity, yeah. Yeah. I would How would you categorize it?
SPEAKER_07Not a power ballad.
SPEAKER_02What would you categorize Define Gravity as, I guess? Uh like a like a diva. A diva? A diva moment.
SPEAKER_07Moment. I don't know. I I don't have there's definitely like a like term that I but it's it's not a ballad. A ballad is also traditionally a ballad should be a love song.
SPEAKER_02That's true.
SPEAKER_07Divine gravity is an anthem, that's what it is. That's an anthem.
SPEAKER_02Yeah, that is so good though.
SPEAKER_07It is so good.
SPEAKER_02I was it's great.
SPEAKER_07It's like it's legendary, popular, like charted on like as it should be top 100 or whatever.
SPEAKER_02Do did the glee cover of any wicked songs?
SPEAKER_07I mean, probably probably.
SPEAKER_02Yeah. Who am I kidding? Who am I kidding?
SPEAKER_07Like, um, yeah, I don't know. I don't like I don't like this movie that much. I don't hate it, and I definitely don't yuck anybody's yum. Let me be very clear. Like, if you're like Wicked was a transcendent cinematic experience, I'm not gonna be like, huh.
SPEAKER_02I will say, like, I rewatched it though, and I'm like, I had such a good time. Like, I I have a great time watching it. I get disappointed here and there, but like by the end, when it it smashes to to be continued, I'm like, okay, great.
SPEAKER_07I'm like this was my it was all my songs that I liked. This was my third time watching it.
SPEAKER_02Yeah.
SPEAKER_07I clocked in for what is this feeling? Dancing through life, and the very end of Defiant Gravity with her. So if you care to find me.
SPEAKER_02Other than that, Western sky.
SPEAKER_07Other than that, I was You're out, not locked in.
SPEAKER_02Woof. Tough popular Solomon.
SPEAKER_07Again, like the songs are coming, I'd be like, yay, time for like time to watch a song. And then I'd be like, uh Yeah, sorry. Um I will say, like, every line that Ariana Grande added that's not in the musical, I assume, is incredible. I think my personal favorite is the simple frock coat. The simple froat.
SPEAKER_02Yep. This has been fun. If there are no further questions, I'm gonna go.
SPEAKER_07I'm gonna go. And then that that rude teenager who's like, excuse me.
SPEAKER_02I have a whole section that's I have a question. Ariana Grande line deliveries.
SPEAKER_07Yeah.
SPEAKER_02I so enjoy the air.
SPEAKER_07I so enjoy the air.
SPEAKER_02I wanna when she's like the riffing asking about the questions, like I wanna know, and she just like, I wanna know. You know?
SPEAKER_07Yeah, like all that.
SPEAKER_02I love it's great. She's great.
SPEAKER_07Ballgown.
SPEAKER_02Ballgown is actually really good. Ballgown.
SPEAKER_07Ballgown. And even though I think the um hot air balloon sequence is stupid, let go of my leg is very funny. That's pretty funny.
SPEAKER_02In a C I think.
SPEAKER_07I think I think Madeline Kahn is a great call.
SPEAKER_02Thank you.
SPEAKER_07Thank you. Or dare I say who's Audrey?
SPEAKER_02Oh, Ellen Green. It's it's a little Ellen Green.
SPEAKER_07We got some shades of Ellen Green.
SPEAKER_02I have a I have clearly a type that works for me.
SPEAKER_07Yeah.
SPEAKER_02Yeah.
SPEAKER_07Um Do you want to rank some songs?
SPEAKER_02Let's do some song rankings in from the movie?
SPEAKER_07Okay, so yeah, from the movie.
SPEAKER_02Number one. I think it's gotta be what is this feeling. I think.
SPEAKER_07And this is specifically movie version.
SPEAKER_02To the movie version, yeah. I think it's what is this feeling.
SPEAKER_07I think my number one is dancing through life. That is like, I genuinely, that was the only time in the theater. Wow, I sound so miserable. I promise I wasn't. Like, I had a fine time. That was the only time in the theater where I was like, my, you know, my like heart started beating faster. Like, I started to like hyperventilate a little bit, which is the best musical feeling.
SPEAKER_02Um well, nothing matters when knowing nothing matters.
SPEAKER_07So, what's your is your number two?
SPEAKER_02I think my number two would probably be dancing through life and then popular.
SPEAKER_07My number two would be what is this feeling, and my number three would be popular. It is ridiculous that Define Gravity is not in our top three.
SPEAKER_02Yeah.
SPEAKER_07I think Define Gravity, I would actually put even under No One Mourns the Wicked.
SPEAKER_02I would also put it under No One Mourns the Wicked.
SPEAKER_07The notes that Ariana Grande hits in No One Mourns the Wicked. Woo boy.
SPEAKER_02How does someone's voice do that? I don't know.
SPEAKER_07After that, I would probably put one short day because it is like super fun.
SPEAKER_02Maybe I oh my god.
SPEAKER_07Do I put that? One short day above divine gravity. That is so damning, but I think you're valid.
SPEAKER_02I'm specifically not doing the I think we I think we can't give the version that is the shortened Spotify version. I think it has to be the movie, which means I think I like One Short Day more.
SPEAKER_07Yeah, oh yeah. It's completely different. And uh the Wizomania, I mean, this is obviously part of the original um musical as well, but the section of One Short Day that's like who's the dun dun dun da are wonderful when it goes into like the interpolation with one short day.
SPEAKER_02That is my favorite part of the song. Yep.
SPEAKER_07Um, all right. What am I missing? I then I guess it's I'm not that girl. Um Were you just singing Chicago for a minute? Yeah. Then I guess it's a good one.
SPEAKER_02I've been listening to a lot of they both reached for the gun. I've been listening to that constantly, and I don't know what happened, but I am like in a kick.
SPEAKER_07I stay listening to Chicago. That's good. A soundtrack where I do listen to the movie version.
SPEAKER_02Movie better. Movie better version. Movie better. Yeah. For sure.
SPEAKER_07Chicago is so good. Chicago's still my favorite movie musical, I think. That and of course singing in the rain.
SPEAKER_02But like I that's a contemporary movie. Singing in the rain, people, it's like I feel like you can't even put that on like best movie musicals when it's just like the best movie. I know.
SPEAKER_07It's so it's so sad to me though, like watching Wicked every time. I think I honestly noticed it this time first and No One Mourns the Wicked, because they have that cool little munchkin land dance. I was like, it would be so great if you stopped cutting and I could watch the choreography. I feel the same way about when they're on the spinning bookshelves and dancing through life and it keeps cutting back to Glinda being like, ooh, let me dance. I was like, this is not about you.
SPEAKER_02I do like that she tries to dance alongside him and can't keep up.
SPEAKER_07I think that's funny, but I think that's funny, but like if they're not in the same shot, I don't want to fucking see it, okay? Stick a wide on that bad boy. Give me some Busby Berkeley blocking and move on.
SPEAKER_02You know who did that really good? Steven Spielberg and Spielberg and Westside story story.
SPEAKER_07Because he was craning all over the place, too. You don't need to keep the camera static.
SPEAKER_02That fucking high school scene is like maybe the best thing that's ever been shot.
SPEAKER_07I can't believe I'm saying this right now, but Taylor Swift's recent music video, The Fate of Ophelia, has like a Buzzby Berkeley-esque like element to it. And like the fact that she did all of those uh like different sections in like standing shots, no cuts, really improved the music video, I think.
SPEAKER_02I think people are starting to recognize this though, because I feel like the discourse has circled back, so I feel like people are starting because I think it was like the take-in era as well, where like things it was like a hundred cuts to jump over a fucking fence. You know what I mean? So I think like people are starting, but to go back really.
SPEAKER_07I just like when you're doing something that's this grand, yeah, love it. I will say something that I was watching it on like really good speakers.
SPEAKER_03Yeah.
SPEAKER_07Um, something that I really love about the Wicked movie is the use of like sound editing in the musical numbers. There's lots of like clothing rustling on beat and like snaps and taps, and obviously, but like the little flicks and like swishes that come on beat are excellent. I am now gonna like be looking and listening for that every time I watch a movie musical.
SPEAKER_02Yeah. That's really good. No, it isn't. This is the detailing, the books, yeah, exactly. On the tables, or the the forks, the forks that one girl with a bob.
SPEAKER_07This is that was a meme for like a week.
SPEAKER_02What is this feeling is the best?
SPEAKER_07I'm still gonna go for dancing through life. Mostly because, like, I I hey, there's a reason Jonathan Bailey was on my qualies back.
SPEAKER_02What do you think is the worst song? Is it a sentimental man or something bad?
SPEAKER_07It has to be something. I think it's something at least a sentimental man is kind of like interesting cinematically.
SPEAKER_02Yeah.
SPEAKER_07Um, and right above.
SPEAKER_02Poor Peter Dinklage.
SPEAKER_07Hey, no shade to Peter Dinklage. Again, I think it's a good performance. Do you remember when they held off on announcing who it was for so long and everyone thought it was James Corden?
SPEAKER_02That was so funny. So funny. And then it happened again with the cowardly lion.
SPEAKER_07Right.
SPEAKER_02And they were like, we have to get in front of it. They can't think it's Corden.
SPEAKER_07Coleman Domingo. Here's so I have something that is not a spoiler.
SPEAKER_02Casting Coleman Domingo. Gay.
SPEAKER_07Gay. Once again. They were like, we're but another one. Another one. It's just so fucking funny. Um, this is not a spoiler, but in the musical, stage musical, at least as I remember, the cowardly lion does not talk or really appear. And the little lion cub who's in act one um was like a little uh animatronic, which was cool. But then like that's they that's what they kept it as. So we're getting lines.
SPEAKER_02Lines that I don't know. We're recording this in November. Oh my god, it's November. I was gonna say October. Um I think that they are really gonna expand Dorothy to have some lines and some more character beats.
SPEAKER_07They have claimed that you're not gonna see her face.
SPEAKER_02I doubt it.
SPEAKER_07You think it's a lie?
SPEAKER_02I think it's a lie.
SPEAKER_07There's been this, like, so again, once again, like, I don't even go here fandom-wise. I just it just keeps showing up.
SPEAKER_02I think I know what you're about to say, though.
SPEAKER_07People have uh like really theorized that it's Alicia Weir. Yes. From uh Matilda slash Abigail.
SPEAKER_02How do how are we both so brainbroken that we both were aware of?
SPEAKER_07The premiere Again, I don't even go here. I don't either. There's this. We're not enrolled at Shiz University. I know. There's this one artist on Twitter who's been making gay as shit Glinda Elfie art for like months, and every time she posts a new one, I automatically see it. Like they they know to send it my way. I don't even like, and I'm like I don't I feel like I haven't been engaging with it really. I look, I'm not complaining, but I mean it's like it's like it's like smuddy. Oh shit. Like Gelphy art. Um you text me though, and you said that Gregory McGuire used to like r sign books with like Gelphy is reading. Right, Gelpy's canon. Yeah. Gelphy is canon.
SPEAKER_02Um wait, but I do think I do think that that's gonna I think like maybe not a big role, but I bet like we see a little Dorothy. Cause I think that if I'm being uh a pessimistic they, so to speak, um, I feel like Universal isn't gonna want this to be one and done, and I feel like they're maybe gonna want to go into the books more or something like that. Maybe. I don't know. I don't know if you can, but I'm like this is how I win via getting Ozma of Oz. That's what I'm saying. I'm like, I bet you Dorothy has more involvement in this than we think.
SPEAKER_07This is how I win. But here's the thing is that they cover the Wizard of Oz in In this, I know. Which is the which is kind of the magic, so then you could just jump to Yes, exactly the second book, which involves Dorothy being on vacation on a boat and getting thrown overboard with a chicken named Belina who lands in Oz and actually ends up talking.
SPEAKER_02No, no, it's a good one. It's not happening. No, it's a good one.
SPEAKER_07It's very it's very like Voyage of the Dawn Treader.
SPEAKER_02That's fun. Okay. I I just don't understand why we as a culture have pivoted to CGI. I mean, I know why we've pivoted to CGI animals because of animal abuse. However, I think that the lion should be played by a man in a suit. That's my hot take. I think that the CGI lion looks bad. I think we should get a guy in a costume.
SPEAKER_07Dude, I just don't, I don't like talking like CI animals. I kind of want it to be a man in a suit. Okay, so I know we've talked about the Wiz a little bit on our Wizard of Oz episode. I was some clips came up the other day. That is a great guy in a suit. He rocks it. I also recently saw the Wiz Live, which I had never seen. Um, they did it at uh the Carolina Theater, which is like where the traveling Broadway shows come here in Durham.
SPEAKER_02Jesus Christ, I forgot that it's it's a crazy outfit.
SPEAKER_07It's it's awesome. Like it's it's downtown, I can walk. Dude, talk about a gay ass musical. Oh like I mean so fucking crazy. I had I realized it was while I was watching the whiz that I realized that I had never, I think, seen The Wizard of Oz as a stage show since I was like a little kid. It's so you have no option but to play the Scarecrow, the Tin Man, and the Cowardly Lion as the gayest people known to man. They're I mean, obviously, like they're literally friends of Dorothy. Yeah. But I agree. Actually, John Mulaney has a bit about this and his like new stand-up set. Like how dude, everybody is so it's just so gay. Like, you have to play those characters gay. There's no way to not do it.
SPEAKER_02Coleman Domingo, be he better be putting on a little bit of a gay accent. I swear to God.
SPEAKER_07I think he's gonna be doing the the Bert. Is it Bert Larr?
SPEAKER_02Yeah, yeah. Um put him up, put him up.
SPEAKER_07He's we're we're gonna get a little bit of that, I wanna say. Yeah. Yeah. Um, but yeah, I agree. Man in a suit, man in a giant fur suit supremacy. Um The Wiz Live rocked my socks, dude. It was so good. Yeah, the whiz is so good. I don't I don't care what people say. I love the whiz.
SPEAKER_02I wish I liked it more.
SPEAKER_07Um, maybe you should see the stage show because the thing I feel like if I saw the stage show, I would like it more. The song slap.
SPEAKER_02The song, no, the songs are the best part of the whiz. Yeah. Yeah. Um, I feel like the the Tin Man from the trailer, I think, looks pretty good because it's all real um, according to them, that they did make up for it similar to the scarecrow, so we'll see. Cool.
SPEAKER_07We'll see. I don't know. Depends on how much these bitches want to fuck around. Put a man in a fucking line. In the editing room.
unknownYeah.
SPEAKER_07That's what I'm saying. Um, I have a quick AO3 update for you. There are 5,000 works in Wicked all these.
SPEAKER_02I was going to ask. Thank you.
SPEAKER_07Don't worry. Um, there is probably there's like this. I reminded a lot of the House of the Dragon. I feel like this is a very classic, like, Yuri thing. Um there's not that many like in canon fanfics. A lot of it is like alternate universe contemporary, like fake dating, or like whatever, politician, office romance, hot D, really, etc. Dude, hot D, like all, because listen, Rhenira and Allison is so important to me.
SPEAKER_02It's I think it's like the most obvious ships of all time.
SPEAKER_07It's such a good ship. I think it is like my current favorite, like Yuri, yeah, girl on girl ship. And I'm trying to read about them like getting it on in the dungeon. Yeah. No, I have to go through like 50-it contemporary universe like AUs, which just means the people, the people crave like, you know, sexy office romance, but with women.
SPEAKER_02That's so I would think that it would be like them on a dragon, etc.
SPEAKER_07I don't really read AUs though, and AUs are extremely popular. And I straight up like don't read them because I'm like, if I wanted to read like an office romance, I would go finding.
SPEAKER_02Yeah, exactly.
SPEAKER_07But a lot of people are like, I'm really just here for the character dynamics, then they put the characters in like every, you know, every universe that they can think of.
SPEAKER_02But like, I want to see Rhenira in that fucking sick ass outfit, like all her blacks that she's throwing. Like, I want to see that, and then Alicent in her fucking green, you know, I don't know.
SPEAKER_07Yeah. Yeah.
SPEAKER_02Dude, when's this new season coming out? I need it.
SPEAKER_07I don't know. Not soon enough.
SPEAKER_02No. You know what does look good though?
SPEAKER_07What?
SPEAKER_02Knight of Seven Kingdoms. I think it looks so good. Oh yeah, it looks awesome. I'm so fucking in.
SPEAKER_07I am basically seated for anything, Game of Thrones, at least like on a trial basis. Do you know what I mean? Like if I start it and I'm like, eh, then whatever.
SPEAKER_02The kid looks so cute.
SPEAKER_07He looks so cute, he's really cute. Our favorite podcast, House of R, is gonna be doing deep dives, and I that is the best way that I have learned about lore in the Game of Thrones world because I'm not reading those books.
SPEAKER_02It's one of the ones that I have read. There you go. The hedge knight, whatever.
SPEAKER_07They're the little, they're like little.
SPEAKER_02Yeah, that's why. Because I was like, I'm not I saw a song of Ice and Fire, and I said, happy for you, I'm not reading all that.
SPEAKER_07I read the first book. You didn't know.
SPEAKER_02And I was like, that was it, yeah.
SPEAKER_07I'm sure it was great. Sure.
SPEAKER_02I'm sure it's fine. Yeah.
SPEAKER_07It's fine.
SPEAKER_02I was too into Game of Thrones at that point. Like, I was fucking season five in.
SPEAKER_07Even though I love fantasy, like I'm not automatically gonna be into your high fantasy. I prefer non-Western high fantasy. Like, if you're like, oh, this is inspired by whatever West African, Egyptian, something else, like anything, like Japanese mythology. I'm like, yo, like tap that shit in my veins. But if you're if it's some variation of Lord of the Rings, you're gonna, you gotta work a little harder.
SPEAKER_02It's hard for me to get into that kind of stuff. I agree.
SPEAKER_07But I think the fact that we're talking about this, I actually this relates back to what the point that a point that I made at the beginning of the episode, which is like I think about Hadi and how cool it is that House of the Dragon is so female character forward.
SPEAKER_03Yeah.
SPEAKER_07Because as we have seen, female character doesn't necessarily mean female only audience. And like something like Wicked is so cool that it's a cultural phenomenon that I feel like skews extremely female while still like it's like the third highest grossing universal like fantasy movie or whatever. It's amazing.
SPEAKER_02My parents saw it in a theater.
SPEAKER_07Exactly. Something like House of the Dragon, same, where I'm like, it's cool, it's still got that Game of Thrones feel. It's still gritty, it's still bloody, it's still violent, but like we're the narrative is centering women, but like the narrative is actually centering women. It makes me really happy, and I hope that like because we know that money talks, we know that money talks, money in popularity. So I hope that seeing kind of like women in fantasy, women in genre like leads to us getting more of this kind of stuff, and it doesn't have to be like girly popified. It's great that Wick it is, because I do think that like that's what I'm going for. Like, that's amazing. If I was a 10-year-old girl, of course I would want to go see this. Incredible, we love that, but like the money's there. Yeah, let's continue. And you can make it super fucking gay, queer coded, apparently, and get away with it. I can't believe how much they get away with. It's right.
SPEAKER_02Like, this is so queer coded that it's like shocking. Yeah, nothing.
SPEAKER_07Not that people were posting online and were doing like a t a quarter of this, there would be like outraged. 100% because it's women. You can just say that the girls are roommates.
SPEAKER_02And they're fine. And they were just friends.
SPEAKER_07The thing is, this is not, it just it just has that. I think it's the it's the enemies to friends, back to enemies, back to friends. Like they're drawn together only to be like torn apart again.
SPEAKER_02It's just but like also, like if you're Glinda and you're coming to Munchkin Land, and then all of a sudden they wrote an effigy of your ex, you're not going to admit to them that you were fucking banging.
SPEAKER_07Well, that's the thing is that it like we talked about how this is such an interesting story about like otherness and like how the animal rights story is like everyone everyone deserves rights. You know, that's the whole idea. Things go wrong, we look for a marginalized group of people to blame. Um blame the munchkins, but it's also like Glinda literally does have to hide her friendship with Alphaba because she will be uh like excommunicated prejudiced against. So it is about you know, are people born wicked or do they have wickedness thrust upon them? Are people obviously it's like a huge allegory for anything you want it to be, like cultural, like racism? Sexism or not sexism really, but like yeah, for for once, but femininity for sure. You know, women are meant to be well behaved and pretty princess, pretty princess witches, not evil not like actual, like wicked, powerful. It's about power, you know. I remember Adina Menzel talked a lot about how she like um when she was playing Alpha Bus, she was like, Oh, this is really important for me, like as a Jewish woman, to like really be able to like tap into this. And I know Cynthia Revo has said like the same thing about being like getting to like play this very iconic like character as a black woman, like adds a whole new like level to it. Um yeah, so I but yeah, I think that the whole element of being like you have to hide who your friends are for your partner was fear of the court of public opinion.
SPEAKER_02I think that all munchkins in this kind of suck though. Like that munchkin her fucking elf of his munchkin dad. Fuck him.
SPEAKER_07I know it's really like we kind of go z we kind of blank across the munchkins. Yeah, the munchkin's not a good performance across the I'm not counting Bach because where we leave him and Nessa Rose, she's mad at him because she can tell that he's in love with Glendon.
SPEAKER_02He is. Also, it's Bach. So everyone, everyone hates Bach.
SPEAKER_07Everyone hates Bach. Sorry.
SPEAKER_02Yeah. No one wants to be him.
SPEAKER_07Ethan Slater, not your fault. Bach has been hated since forever.
SPEAKER_02I'm sorry, Mr. SpongeBob. Oh god.
SPEAKER_07On that note.
SPEAKER_02Good move. Good movie for me. Somewhat not good. Extremely free.
SPEAKER_07Extremely free.
SPEAKER_02Where does it land on the letterboxed game, though? Let's see what the people think.
SPEAKER_07Yeah, you want to guess the average.
SPEAKER_023-6. 3-8. Wow.
SPEAKER_07You underestimate. I underestimated. The five the five star boost on this thing is huge.
SPEAKER_02Yeah. What's that arc looking like? Let me see.
SPEAKER_07Um, so this is we've got just like a big thing.
SPEAKER_02Yeah, that makes sense.
SPEAKER_07I would say our friend's Fred is much more what I expected. It's a lot of three, three star, and three and a half, four stars. Yeah. Um I would realistically give this three stars.
SPEAKER_02I would not do more. I just gave it a heart. Because that's what I do.
SPEAKER_07We don't really do it anymore, but we're like live on, we're on mic. So it's like it's different. Here's the thing. I maybe I don't want my like rating sitting out there for anyone. Right. But like John M2 is invested enough to listen to this, I want him to know that I really do appreciate him as an artist.
SPEAKER_02Me too.
SPEAKER_07And because of how much I appreciate him, I will stick to my truth, which is that this is a three-star film with a heart for me.
SPEAKER_02I support you. What can you do? I support you. Where's the landing on the queer quadrant for you? If you're running down the yellow brick road, you're sprinting down that yellow brick road.
SPEAKER_07Sprinting through those lesbian tulips.
SPEAKER_02You're dancing through life.
SPEAKER_07I'm gonna give it four and a half stars.
SPEAKER_02Yeah, okay, me too. I was I can't give it five. I can't give it five either, but I'm like, I can end it.
SPEAKER_07I'm gonna give it four and a half. If I my only thing is like, I'm like, what if Wicked for Good is even gayer? Like, what do I do? That's my thinking too.
SPEAKER_02I was like, I'm like, okay, they're not gonna kiss, but I'm like, what if they kiss?
SPEAKER_07But what if they did? I will say, so there are two new songs. Yes. Um Alpha Buzz is called No Place Like Home. Corny. Do you think we could have spent a little more time? Corny in the brainstorm sesh, guys.
SPEAKER_02I maybe it's Michael G. Aquino cooking, though, you know, where it's like he's he's just throwing the obvious thing in there, and then it's gonna be something a little crazier.
SPEAKER_07Um, but uh, oh yeah, maybe, maybe. Alright, I could be, and then um, but uh Glinda's song is called The Girl in the Bubble, which I think is a really nice title, and I'm excited. I want to see.
SPEAKER_02I'm so curious what the fuck this movie is gonna be. I'm so excited. I have my early access to it. Thank goodness.
SPEAKER_07I can't believe I could I forgot about thank goodness in um think yeah in in Wicked for Good. That will probably be my favorite song. I love that song.
SPEAKER_02Yeah.
SPEAKER_07Um March of the Witch Hunters, The Girl in the Bubble. Maybe they oh hmm. Yeah, it is called No Place Like Home. I was right. The I was right. Oh, no good deed is good too. There are some fangers. No, there's some good ones.
SPEAKER_02It's just not as good as just not as many. The thing that I'm curious did when she gets on the bike when she's biking with the line cub, do they use the da da da da da da da at all, or do they ever I don't know.
SPEAKER_07There is one point where the headmistress of there's a there's a couple little like um Easter eggs that I can talk about in two weeks, but one thing that I like.
SPEAKER_02There are so many fucking things that are like spotlight, this is gonna happen.
SPEAKER_07Yeah, um, but the headmistress at one point is like talking to Alpha and she's like, oh, don't be gulched, we'll figure something out. And I was like, ah That's fun. Okay, is gulch. Uh uh. I don't think that they do the do do do do do do. I love they might not have the rights.
SPEAKER_02Or they might even like I literally just watched something. Hold up. Because I was watching a movie and I don't know, maybe I was watching a movie once in my life, um, and it was crazy because movies are awesome. Um literally, what the fuck did I watch? Was that a Cohen Brothers movie? Probably not. I don't know. I was watching something and they had a reference and it had that and it like made a little it had a little bit of the the theme. Okay, that's fun. Maybe it wasn't the Cohen's, I don't know.
SPEAKER_07But so we both we both decided to give this 4.5 stars.
SPEAKER_02Yeah, the game is straight musical ever.
SPEAKER_07Potentially have to eat our hats in two weeks. Okay. Eat our our pointed witchy hats.
SPEAKER_02One one thing to Alpha. If I am in college, I have a little bit of fucking self-awareness. If I've been made fun of my whole life, I'm aware of what I wear.
SPEAKER_07Bitch, don't wear that fucking hat. It's ugly as shit. I think it's cool, actually. Like, I love a witch's hat. Um, I think it's pretty rude that everyone makes fun of her.
SPEAKER_08I do think it's pretty much easy to roll up to a fucking hat. Yes, exactly.
SPEAKER_07This but see, this is what I mean about like Wicked the musical. Like, I'm not gonna stand it because like what do you mean she got her hat? Like the in the way she gets her broom, like I don't, it's not I'm not pressed about it, you know, but I'm like, I think it's just it's classic, like, prequel shit though. Exactly. That's why I can't, you know, like I'm not gonna be like, whoa guys.
SPEAKER_02My favorite thing is after my my parents saw it maybe like three to four weeks after the movie came out. Um, but my favorite thing is they call me on their way home from the theater and they go, Oh my god, we had no idea that this was the backstory to the wicked witch. Like, we learned so much.
SPEAKER_07What did they think they were walking into? Did you ask them? That would have been my I would be like, No, I was just old.
SPEAKER_02No, my question was just like, did you not know what wicked was for the past like 30 years of culture? How did they raise you?
SPEAKER_07I don't know. And like, no, but like legitimately, like you lived in their house while you were in your wicked phase.
SPEAKER_02And they just somehow never clocked that wicked was about.
SPEAKER_07You best believed that my mom could recite the musical back to front. Actually, she and Rhett, my sister, like saw it at separate times and they were like, Brooke, got PCSD from how many times you played that damn CD. The notes started, and I was like, oh here we go.
SPEAKER_0212 years ago, shaking in my boots.
SPEAKER_07Yep. That's crazy.
SPEAKER_02Yeah, no, it was it was shocking.
SPEAKER_07That is, I'm so glad you remembered to tell that story.
SPEAKER_02Yeah, no, it blew it blew my mind. I was like, I like hit the gas wherever I was to pull over because I was like, this is fucked up.
SPEAKER_07Story time necessary. Um, okay, well, it has been a pleasure podcasting with you.
SPEAKER_02You're the best.
SPEAKER_07Um you can find us. I I would like to plug us. Oh, you can find us um on Twitter, Blue Sky, Instagram, and Letterboxd, and in the Merry Old Land of Oz. I'm at Brooke V. Solomon.
SPEAKER_02Jordan H. Gus.
SPEAKER_07And we're together a queer quadrant. Uh the Instagram Reel Game has been popping off recently. Oh, we are gonna be posting some gay reels! Yeah, I'll find the fan art if I can. Please.
SPEAKER_02Um and uh But actually, don't maybe we can't post the fan art because it might be too explicit.
SPEAKER_07Yeah, maybe not. But we could like we could story it. Like we could like repost it from the artist. I'll find it. I'll see I'll see what I can do. It's not like I would only send you the appropriate one.
SPEAKER_02The like Zack Snyder battle woman shit.
SPEAKER_07Oh, they're they're Jordan, the things I have seen. You would not believe. Um anyway, you can drop us a rate five pink bubbles only. Very nice. Um, leave us a review about how splendoriferous. Splenderous. Very good. Very good. Um, you think we are? Leave a leave a shiz, rate my professor. Um, and you can Madame Warbles reviews were terrible. Leave a comment and um let us know what you want to see us cover in the future. You don't have a choice. Two weeks for today. We're covering Wicked for Good. Woo! Be here or get melted by a bucket of water. I'm so excited. We have things, reveals, oh, like answers. We have there's much more to discuss. Yeah. So you can tune in in two weeks for that uh on on release weekend. It will be a spoiler-filled episode, so don't listen to it before you see the movie. That's what I got.
SPEAKER_02I love it.
SPEAKER_07Jordan, anything you want to leave our our our citizens of Oz with?
SPEAKER_02I got something. She's a lesbian, he's gay, and their 33 marriage marriage will change your perspective of love.
SPEAKER_08Until we get to wicked for good. Wicked for good. In which things go wrong. Guess what happens? You'll have to find out.
SPEAKER_02Maybe lavender marriages aren't good.
SPEAKER_07Food for thought. Alright.
SPEAKER_10Bye.
SPEAKER_07Bye.
SPEAKER_10Hey, our ride's almost here. Are you ready? Just grabbing my shoes.
SPEAKER_09That's what you said 10 minutes ago.
SPEAKER_05I just dropped a video call, uploading this giant file on my tablet, looking at my watch go bananas with the group chat, and of course, still lining up tonight's playlist on my phone.
SPEAKER_00All at once?
SPEAKER_05Yep, story of my life. That's why I switched to T-Mobile. They have the fastest 5G network.
SPEAKER_11Okay, multitasker. I see you.
SPEAKER_05Honestly, I never imagined I could do all this at once. Awesome.
SPEAKER_12Say no more, I'm totally switching. My post is taking way too long to upload.
SPEAKER_05That's a sign you've got to get T-Mobile.
SPEAKER_04So many reasons to join T Mobile. Find yours at T Mobile.com.