In this episode, Matt & Jenn answer three listener questions about passionless sex:
"How can I stop thinking of sex as an obligation when it's physically painful? While we wait for physical healing, how can I enjoy this part of our marriage?”
“How do you navigate pleasing your spouse when you have no sexual desire and prefer not being touched at all?”
“How can I enjoy a particular sex act that I get a lot of pleasure from but they do not, but they are willing to do it because they love me.”
In summary,
Refuse to let sex become passionless and simply a place of obligation — for yourself or your spouse.
To help improve your own desire and passion, start by trying to focus on one simple thing that can anticipate and enjoy each time you make love.
Don’t settle for passionless sex with your spouse. Seek to compassionately understand your spouse’s challenges and seek only sex that is connecting and mutually pleasurable.
STATE OF THE COVENANT: It's almost a New Year and a great time to think about reassessing the state of your marriage and setting some goals together to improve the strength and intimacy of your relationship. Consider our resource to help get these important conversations started: The State of the Covenant
Support these business that support Intimate Covenant:
Open Door Financial Advisors www.opendoorfa.com Where finances meet faith and family.
Thanks for sharing, rating, reviewing and subscribing!
Cherishing, Matt & Jenn
PS — If you have been blessed by the message of this podcast, we would deeply appreciate your support by donating to our mission of spreading God’s plan for intimate marriage and holy sexuality.
In this episode, Matt & Jenn answer three listener questions about passionless sex:
"How can I stop thinking of sex as an obligation when it's physically painful? While we wait for physical healing, how can I enjoy this part of our marriage?”
“How do you navigate pleasing your spouse when you have no sexual desire and prefer not being touched at all?”
“How can I enjoy a particular sex act that I get a lot of pleasure from but they do not, but they are willing to do it because they love me.”
In summary,
Refuse to let sex become passionless and simply a place of obligation — for yourself or your spouse.
To help improve your own desire and passion, start by trying to focus on one simple thing that can anticipate and enjoy each time you make love.
Don’t settle for passionless sex with your spouse. Seek to compassionately understand your spouse’s challenges and seek only sex that is connecting and mutually pleasurable.
STATE OF THE COVENANT: It's almost a New Year and a great time to think about reassessing the state of your marriage and setting some goals together to improve the strength and intimacy of your relationship. Consider our resource to help get these important conversations started: The State of the Covenant
Support these business that support Intimate Covenant:
Open Door Financial Advisors www.opendoorfa.com Where finances meet faith and family.
Thanks for sharing, rating, reviewing and subscribing!
Cherishing, Matt & Jenn
PS — If you have been blessed by the message of this podcast, we would deeply appreciate your support by donating to our mission of spreading God’s plan for intimate marriage and holy sexuality.
Hey, jen wanna talk about passionless sex. Uh, I passionately decline Great today we're gonna discuss the common circumstance in the course of a married sex life, when one of you or both of you is just not feeling it. Let's do it. Welcome to the Intimate Covenant podcast, where we believe the Bible and great married sex both belong on your kitchen table. That's right. We're talking about holy covenant-bound intimate relationships with hot sex.
Speaker 2:
We're Matt and Jen, founders of Intimate Covenant. We offer biblical teaching and resources to help married couples achieve a fuller relationship and an extraordinary sex life. For more information, visit our website, IntimateCovenantcom.
Speaker 1:
Welcome, friends.
Speaker 2:
Welcome. Thanks for joining us on the Intimate Covenant podcast.
Speaker 1:
And happy December. We have nearly completed 2023.
Speaker 2:
That's a crazy thought. According to what I recently heard, somewhere, I don't know where, the year is more than 95% complete, which we know that.
Speaker 1:
but then when you think I am in the last 5% of this year, it feels kind of final, like not much left and there truly is not much left Right and in that light, I hope you got all of your resolutions done for 2023.
Speaker 2:
How's your resolution list looking?
Speaker 1:
now. Yeah, because you're pretty much out of time.
Speaker 2:
That's right, you are out of time, but it's never too early to start your 2024 resolutions.
Speaker 1:
Yes right and I guess, speaking of 2024 resolutions, now is a good time to remind all of you who are listening about our state of the Covenant worksheet and process. It's a conversation guide. For those of you who are unaware, it's a conversation guide that we created to help you couples to assess your relationship in all of the different realms of intimacy. Yeah, it's a worksheet. We did a podcast episode to kind of guide you through that process. You can look for that back in early 2023, if you're looking through the archives and then the worksheet you can purchase at our website, intimatecovenantcom slash shop and that will give you access to that worksheet and some of the guide and the tips to complete that process. We really took that our own process, the process that we use on a regular basis to assess our relationship. We took that and we turned it into, I think, something that's useful and would be useful for everyone.
Speaker 2:
No, I think that's right. I mean the fact that we've used this for multiple years now. And we don't use it perfectly.
Speaker 1:
Don't look at that worksheet and imagine Matt and Jen perfectly doing this, but Nor are our scores and assessment perfect every time that we do it either way.
Speaker 2:
True but it is a great tool to just help you know, okay, where are we, where have we been, where do we want to go. I think it's a great. Sometimes you wanna have that conversation but you don't really know where to start or how to have that conversation. So I think it's a great tool to just help guide our couples.
Speaker 1:
So if you think that would be helpful, come find it on our website or just email us and we'll be happy to point you in the right direction if you're having trouble with that, yeah, so today for the episode, we've dug back into our emails and some of the other anonymously submitted questions that we get at various live events and so on, and we want to consider a very common scenario for married sex life.
Speaker 2:
Right. We often hear questions. That is all centered. They are all centered around what to do if my spouse or if I have lost interest or desire in sex.
Speaker 1:
Yeah, and so we've gone back through the archives and we've selected three different questions about this topic. Each is concerned about a slightly different angle of what we're calling passionless sex, and I think, though, that these three questions really come at this problem, or come from this problem maybe from very different perspectives, and so I think those three questions are gonna help us dig in a little bit into some important concepts about this idea of passionless sex, and so we're hopeful that we're gonna be able to offer some advice to spouses who may be on either side of this spectrum If you're the spouse that is lacking passion, or if you feel like you are, spouse is the one who is lacking passion. We think we're gonna be able to hit this from all of these different angles.
Speaker 2:
Right, but do you know what else no one has desire for this time of year, Matt.
Speaker 1:
Well, it's definitely the time of year when no one wants to talk about finances.
Speaker 2:
Very true.
Speaker 1:
We've spent so much on presence and travel and fun and if we dare to look back at the year in retrospect, you know we always wish we could have saved more or spent less or made some more responsible decisions with our money. And if you're like we used to be, you just wish that you had a better understanding, like a better plan for your finances.
Speaker 2:
Yeah, I think we would often get to the end of the year and we would think, oh, we started out with great thoughts and I don't think we ended up anywhere close to where we wanted to be Right but not this year, man.
Speaker 1:
Not this year. No, not this year.
Speaker 2:
Why is that man?
Speaker 1:
Because we feel like we have a plan because we know Derek. Yes, and we want you to know Derek. We urge you to let give Derek a call, derek at Open Door Financial Advisors. He will help you.
Speaker 2:
Right, right, and you don't even have to meet with him before the holidays. Who has time in December to meet with their financial advisor.
Speaker 1:
Who wants to talk to a financial advisor this time of year?
Speaker 2:
You can go ahead, though, and schedule an appointment for January.
Speaker 1:
Absolutely yeah. Book an appointment with Derek at Open Door Financial Advisors. You can find him at OpenDoorFAcom, where finances meet faith and family.
Speaker 2:
That's right. All right, so, getting into today's episode, like you said, matt, we've got three different questions that we pulled together, so let's just get started. First question how can I stop thinking of sex as an obligation when it's physically painful While we wait for physical healing? How can I enjoy this part of our marriage?
Speaker 1:
I love this question and I I I definitely get where this questioner is coming from in sort of feeling like sex is an obligation, getting to that point where you feel like it's just an obligation, and I think it's important to make it clear that, yes, I do think that sex is an obligation. It is an obligate and requisite part of marriage. I think we've made that clear in our episodes.
Speaker 2:
But I think we've gotten some feedback which we love. We love when you guys challenge us and say hey, have you thought about it this way? And some feedback we recently got is that, according to First Corinthians 7, sex is an obligation. So this listener was just encouraging us to kind of maybe more refine our language and how we talk about sex being an obligation, and we've spoken about that in a negative way. So I think you know yes, obviously we agree with scriptures that First Corinthians 7 is teaching that sex is an obligation.
Speaker 1:
And I'm not upset about the fact that it's an obligation.
Speaker 2:
Right, right.
Speaker 1:
But where we're coming from is that we it can get to a point where sex is only an obligation and there is nothing passionate or enthusiastic about it. But if you think about it, yes, sex is an obligation, but so is loving your kids, so is serving God, so is giving to the poor or assembling with the church. Those are all obligations. And if I'm fulfilling my quote duty purely from the motivation of obligation, then both my spouse and, frankly, I am not going to get much pleasure from that.
Speaker 2:
Right, right. If one of us is simply engaging in sex just out of obligation primarily out of obligation it's unlikely that we're going to feel fulfilled you know and we're not going to fill the fulfillment of the primary purpose of sex, which is mutual connection.
Speaker 1:
And I would say, I would argue that if you are performing sex purely out of a sense of obligation, then you're not really fulfilling your obligation because you're missing the real point of sex, right, right, I mean, think about how. What does God think about lukewarm obedience?
Speaker 2:
Yeah, it makes it pretty clear in the book of Revelation it's vomit worthy, right.
Speaker 1:
And so certainly sometimes, though, I get it that sometimes your obedience, sometimes you're fulfilling your obligation just simply sometimes has to start from fulfilling your obligation Right.
Speaker 2:
But I think we're called to learn to find joy and fulfillment in our service.
Speaker 1:
Yes.
Speaker 2:
And so you know that requires a focus on gratitude, on praise, on building an intimate relationship. So when we talk about negatively about obligation sex, I think we're trying to include all of that, but we've decided to reframe and instead, as we're going to title this episode, we're talking about passionless sex.
Speaker 1:
Right.
Speaker 2:
So maybe that's a I don't know that phraseology of passionless sex kind of captures more than nuance of what we're trying to get at.
Speaker 1:
Yeah, I think what we meant by obligation sex in the past is obligation only. Yes, for doing it only out of a sense of obligation, right. But I think saying passionless sex reframes that and I think, like you said, captures the real idea of what we're looking at.
Speaker 2:
So to our listener who challenged us, thank you.
Speaker 1:
Thank you for that challenge.
Speaker 2:
Yes, yeah, all right. So, all that said, the original question is a little bit of a caveat right to this idea of obligation sex, passionless sex. The question is specifically, though, about painful sex, which is making sex then feel more like an obligation and less pleasurable. Yeah, and so, to answer that part of the question, our general advice is never have painful sex.
Speaker 1:
Right Stop, yes, stop having painful sex, absolutely. Yeah, I think that is a general rule. I think that should and does apply under every circumstance.
Speaker 2:
Right. Stop having painful sex. If it hurts, stop and find something else to do. I mean, intercourse is not always necessary for a vibrant, meaningful, pleasurable, connected sex life. You don't always have to have intercourse as the main end. All be all. Everything about our sex life centers around intercourse.
Speaker 1:
Absolutely.
Speaker 2:
Generally painful sex is coming through intercourse.
Speaker 1:
Absolutely. Sex does not require intercourse. I think that's maybe the important lesson there. And having painful sex, especially doing that repeatedly, I will tell you that that is the fastest way to destroy your sexual desire and the fastest way to erode your emotional relationship.
Speaker 2:
Right, right. I mean what happens to your brain when you are the one having pain and your brain is automatically then going to associate that act with that is the place where I have pain, that is the source of pain. It's not many of us who can go, yes, sign me up for that, I want to do that, right? And so when you force yourself to keep having this, these places of pain, you're damaging yourself. You're damaging yourself emotionally and you may think, yeah, but it's what I'm supposed to be doing. No, it's not. You don't have to have whatever it is that's causing you the pain. If that's intercourse, you don't have to be doing that one specific act.
Speaker 1:
Yeah, I mean to go to. Maybe, to borrow some language from our kind of previous segue is that you're obligated to have sex, but you are not obligated to have painful sex, right, because there are so many other options.
Speaker 2:
Yes.
Speaker 1:
And so look into that and stop having painful sex. And I would also say, maybe to the spouse on the other side of this question, that demanding painful sex and I'm not making an accusation, by the way- Right, but we don't know this couple.
Speaker 1:
Demanding painful sex, and by that I mean sex that is painful emotionally, sex that's painful physically or painful spiritually. Demanding painful sex is the fastest way to build the kind of resentment which will eventually lead to an obligation only sex life, to a passionless sex life. No one, not even the one demanding painful sex, actually wants to have passionless sex, right, right?
Speaker 2:
right. So we all want our sex life to involve passion between both parties. Yeah, in the short term.
Speaker 1:
It feels like, perhaps, that you're getting what you want when you get this kind of sex.
Speaker 2:
At least I'm getting sex.
Speaker 1:
But you're eroding everything that you actually really want and need, and we did a whole episode on this.
Speaker 2:
So we would really encourage you to go back and listen to this previous episode about obligation sex, about this idea and what we titled it was does my spouse owe me sex? That's episode 76, back in January of 2022. So go back and listen to that. But for this questioner, I think I would start with encouraging, obviously to first stop having the kind of sex that is painful, but then look for ways that you can connect sexually that provide connection and mutual pleasure for both of you and, like you said just a minute ago, this may require that you expand your idea of what sex is. Sex is sharing your sexual energies with your beloved. There's a hundred different ways you can do that. Intercourse isn't the only way.
Speaker 1:
Why would you limit it to a hundred?
Speaker 2:
There's lots of other ways Spoken like a good pursuer that you are.
Speaker 1:
I would also add that if the source of your sexual pain is unknown or is not resolving, this questioner mentioned that there is physical healing that is occurring, so something, maybe medically is in the way in this case. But if the source of that sexual pain is unknown or it's not getting better, then get help. Yes, and again, consider going back to our episode on painful sex, that's episode 31.
Speaker 2:
Way back in the beginning.
Speaker 1:
That was way back. Yes, I think the title is when sex is painful, and I'll put that link in the show notes as well. But if you are experiencing sex that is painful in any way, get some help, because there is almost always I would dare say there probably is always a solution that does not require ongoing painful sex.
Speaker 2:
Yeah, and there are plenty of experts that are there and able to help you. So see the importance of helping your sexual life be as healthy and fulfilling as it can and should be. So I think, in summary, for this husband or wife who's struggling to find pleasure or satisfaction in their current sex life, or for the husband or wife whose sexual desire is flickering, a helpful piece of advice is really to try to focus on one experience at a time. Try to focus on looking forward to one thing about your next sexual experience. It doesn't have to be overtly sexual part of the experience, but if you can find a place mentally way before the actual physical time of sex starts, find a place mentally to think I wanna look forward to that.
Speaker 2:
This is a place of enjoyment. I like it when you know like we have that skin to skin contact. There's a lot of studies that show the benefit of skin to skin right. Maybe that's the place that does provide you a lot of enjoyment. Maybe it's focusing on the eye contact. I like those quiet moments where we look into each other's eyes and we're there together.
Speaker 1:
Yeah, maybe there's some part of your spouse's anatomy that you enjoy gazing at, or even just that feeling of physical arousal, whether it goes all the way to the climax or not, but just that feeling of physical sexual arousal. Maybe you enjoy kissing or maybe you enjoy your spouse's unique smell, or their cologne or perfume or whatever it might be, their fragrance or the sounds Maybe you enjoy, maybe you can find some pleasure in just hearing those sounds of sexual activity. Or maybe you just enjoy the fact that your spouse desires you and you enjoy experiencing that through their eyes. If you can look for that simple pleasure, then your mind has a place to go of enjoyment in that moment and then that's also something that you can dwell on beforehand to help build that anticipation and help to build that desire. It doesn't have to, you don't have to necessarily try to wrap your head around the whole experience.
Speaker 2:
No, no, right. If you will just help your mind connect pleasure to sex with your beloved, that will help overcome those places where you have experienced pain and you know it's helping teach yourself how to anticipate and enjoy that sexual connection instead of dreading and if it's constant pain, you learn to dread.
Speaker 1:
And that's definitely an emotion you don't want to attach to your sexual time with your beloved Kind of defeats the purpose. Right, that's right, yeah. So a second question that we received is very similar, but it's from a slightly different perspective, and the questioner asks how do you navigate pleasing your spouse when you have no sexual desire and you prefer not being touched at all?
Speaker 2:
I'm smiling and laughing because I have to imagine that this question is being submitted by a mama with little kids, with young children.
Speaker 1:
There is no doubt in my mind that that is the case.
Speaker 2:
I think maybe myself, you know, 15 years ago, was the one asking this question right. So to that mama I say you're not alone. You're not alone, you're not alone and raising young children is exhausting, physically and emotionally and feel.
Speaker 2:
That feeling of being touched out is probably the most common complaint of mothers with young kids who are struggling with their sexual desires is very difficult to spend all day with little hands all over your body, even even the little hands that you love and you created or you had a part in them. You know just. You want those little hands to be touching you, and yet at 10 pm your brain is overstimulated by those little people, and so it's very common to not be able to, you know, detach the feeling of little hands from the feeling of your husband's hands.
Speaker 1:
It's the most common complaint that we hear from mothers with young children by far by far right but I do think it's important to acknowledge that this listener at least has the desire to want to have more desire.
Speaker 2:
Yeah, and that is a huge first step.
Speaker 1:
Absolutely, she wants a better sexual relationship. She recognizes and appreciates that it is waning at this stage in in their life and in their marriage. But we appreciate and we also hope that her spouse appreciates, that she wants to try to please her husband in this way and that's something that I really hope her husband is paying attention to, her at least desire to want to make it better right right you know.
Speaker 1:
This is an important point, I think, because if your spouse is showing up and making any little effort, then you need to be offering praise and gratitude rather than criticism for what is not there.
Speaker 2:
Absolutely find out what you can do to help, rather than offering your opinions and your suggestions, because if you are the person who is struggling to tap into your desire, you know you want it to be different, but you're just stuck. You're stuck in that mindset of I don't want sex, I don't want to be touched. The last thing you need to hear is just well, if you would only yeah, criticism will kill any desire that she has.
Speaker 1:
It will kill any passion that is left, because many wives get to this stage in their sexual journey and they refuse to do the work that is necessary to build a relationship with their husband when it gets tough right.
Speaker 2:
And so if your spouse is showing up that she's doing better than most, yeah, it is so easy as a young mom to get to the point where you just settle.
Speaker 1:
You settle for this mindset of passionless sex yeah, I'll just get it done, because it's another thing I've got to get on my to-do list and I just have to do him and then I'm done.
Speaker 2:
Yeah, you know I can go to bed, um, but you know, we obviously strongly, strongly encourage you young mamas, don't settle. Don't settle for passionless sex. It can be better, absolutely for this wife.
Speaker 1:
I think, from a more practical standpoint, we would really offer very much the same kind of advice as the as the first, that is, finding little places of pleasure to anticipate, places of pleasure to enjoy in the moment right and places of pleasure to look back on with with fondness or with that, that kind of those kind of memories that can help you know flame or spark a little bit of flame right in your heart.
Speaker 2:
What you want to do is just and we've talked about this before you want to keep yourself simmering, you don't want to go all the way to cold, and so some times, one of the ways that that helps the most with this idea of simmering, with this idea of trying to stay tapped into some amount of sexual desire, is just train your mind to think about where do I find pleasure? And again, like you said earlier, it doesn't have to be this grand big thing, it can just be. I find pleasure in having those quiet moments together yeah, whatever it is right.
Speaker 1:
The other side of this is, I think, from a practical standpoint, is to um, especially if you have a lot of little kids, which again we're making that assumption in this question.
Speaker 2:
But I think it's a fair assumption a lot of our listeners are in that that situation.
Speaker 1:
So you're gonna have to make preparation and you're gonna have to prioritize your sex life. Make preparation well before it's time, because otherwise your kids and your life will overcome your life and your schedule. You will enjoy sex so much more and you'll desire it more if you are creating something that's worth enjoying right, and so, practically speaking, that means take a nap.
Speaker 2:
You might not have the perfectly clean house that you would like, but you might need to prioritize resting a little bit more so that by 10 pm you do have a little bit of energy right for that connection?
Speaker 2:
maybe it's things like take a bath, sure, take a moment to just kind of let go of that stress. We've talked about this before, but it's learning how to turn off mom mode and tap back in to love or girl, and sometimes that means that you just need a little bit of time in between in order to prepare your body and your mind, and so that may mean asking your husband to help take something off of the plate. Every Tuesday night he puts kids to bed and gives you an hour to take a little bit of time yourself so that you can prepare. You know, but again, you can't get to 10 pm and expect this is all going to just magically happen.
Speaker 1:
It takes preparation there's no, there's no switch that you can flip that's going to just suddenly turn on that desire. It has to be something that you pour into yourself right, that you have prioritized, that you've put effort into right. Maybe get that looks like planning a date night away from the kids. Or maybe that looks like turning your bedroom into more of a sanctuary, so that you have a place to look forward to, to be together yeah in either case, whatever your situation is, refuse to let sex become passionless yes, you just have to refuse to let that happen.
Speaker 1:
You have to keep striving and don't settle right.
Speaker 2:
We have a sign now hanging over our shoulders here, who is gifted to us this last year at our retreat. So those watching on youtube can see our beautiful sign keep striving, don't settle. But this is what that means. This is that, practically, when your home is full of little people or whatever it is, your life is full of something that's pulling you away, making it harder for you to connect to your sexual desire. Don't just settle in that place, and so that also means that you have to have a conversation with your spouse about this. You need to be upfront with your husband again. Stop thinking that somehow magically it's just going to get better or he's going to all the sudden do all the right things to turn you on. That's not the way that this works and this requires you yes
Speaker 1:
to invest, and so it may be that you have to be upfront and say to your husband I am struggling to find my desire and, frankly, this is not going to be a mind-blowing revolution for your husband because, I'll tell you, he already knows he can sense when you're not that into it and somebody and maybe that needs to be you, but somebody has to bring up the conversation, somebody has to start the conversation. So start that conversation. But you need to approach this from the standpoint of not here's the problem and it's all your fault, but right, here's the problem, here's what I'm trying to do to try to foster more desire and here's what I think you can do to help and let your husband also know what he needs to stop doing in order to try to help that can be a difficult conversation.
Speaker 2:
That's not a conversation you have five minutes before you start having sex no, or five minutes after?
Speaker 1:
yeah, that's not the right place, or time?
Speaker 2:
but you know, this is a good conversation and and again you have to do. You have to see the importance of doing the work yourself, internally and being the one to initiate. Okay, I want to work on this better. Here's where I am, here's what I'm doing, here's what I need you to do Again. So often, as young mamas, we just settle in a I don't know, I don't really want it sex. Maybe one day I'll want it again. Don't settle.
Speaker 1:
Don't settle. Keep building that relationship. This third question is also about this obligation only or passionless sex, but it's from the opposite perspective which I think is an important side of this to consider. This person asks how can I enjoy a particular sex act that I get a lot of pleasure from, but they do not? But they're willing to do it because they love me.
Speaker 2:
Yeah, this is a good one. This question's a little bit more nuanced because the story behind the question is not entirely clear to us. Of course we can't clarify it's an anonymous asker, so we are just going to have to make some assumptions. But as we were talking through this, I think we came up with two different scenarios of what could be behind this kind of question. It could be that this listener's spouse is performing some act, this particular act, quite willingly and maybe even enthusiastically, but the listeners having a hard time enjoying it because they know that their spouse isn't getting the same degree of pleasure in that exact moment from that specific act.
Speaker 1:
Sure, again, we don't have the details, but, for example, maybe an obvious example is that something like performing oral sex is typically a one-sided event. One person is focusing on the pleasure of the other person, and that's kind of solely what's happening, from a physical perspective at least.
Speaker 2:
Right.
Speaker 1:
Let's be clear about this. In truth, most sexual positions are going to result in varying degrees of sexual pleasure for one spouse compared to the other.
Speaker 2:
Right.
Speaker 1:
The position that maximizes pleasure for one of you is going to be different than the position that maximizes pleasure for the other of you.
Speaker 2:
That's where there is this give and take that happens within a sexual encounter. Side note this is maybe why you need to make sure that there's multiple areas of give and take that are happening within one sexual encounter.
Speaker 1:
You need a toolbox full of different options.
Speaker 2:
Right, but it's okay.
Speaker 1:
Yeah, that's the thing.
Speaker 2:
I think that's what we're getting at it's okay, we've got to get rid of this mistaken expectation and I'd say it's put out there by Hollywood that we're supposed to equally like things and equally reach maximum pleasure at the exact same moment doing the same thing. Let's just be clear we have two very different bodies that require different stimulation in order to get to a point of pleasure. So what might bring one body to pleasure isn't necessarily the exact same position that would be bringing another body to pleasure.
Speaker 1:
I think that's the point. That's what God designed it that way, so that we have a lifetime of exploration for each other. True pleasure comes from the connection of the act, not the act itself. I think that's maybe the point that is often missed.
Speaker 2:
Right.
Speaker 1:
If your spouse is showing up and wants to bring you pleasure, then be grateful for that.
Speaker 2:
Right. See that as them getting exactly what they want and need, from the experience too. They are connecting with you in your moment of pleasure. You shouldn't expect anything more than that.
Speaker 1:
It's hard for some of us because we were raised with this mentality that life must be all about service. Yes, it is, but part of that service attitude is also being willing to be served and accepting gifts with gratitude.
Speaker 2:
Right, that's one side of this question. Maybe the other side and another way to interpret this question and honestly, it's probably the place where this is coming from is that the questioner's spouse is offering the kind of sex that the listener enjoys, but doing it in a certain way that's making it pretty clear that they're not enjoying the process of giving Right. If that's the case, our advice would be stop accepting it, which I know is like wait, what'd they say?
Speaker 1:
Stop accepting sex that your spouse doesn't want, right Stop accepting it. That's a little scary for some of us, especially for pursuers, who place a real high value on this and we think, well, if we say no to this, then that means I might get no sex. Well, sometimes that's going to be the case. Maybe that needs to be the case because you need to rebuild something that is mutually pleasurable for both of you.
Speaker 2:
Right, because your point is connections. That's your primary point. Pleasure is certainly a part of sex. We're never going to deny that.
Speaker 1:
A crucially important part.
Speaker 2:
Absolutely, but it has to first be coming from a place of connection, and so if it's not, whatever it is, if it's not connecting you, then it is damaging your relationship and you need to stop.
Speaker 1:
Yeah, at the very least you've got to have a conversation about this. I mean, on one hand, maybe you've misinterpreted their behavior. They may love it because you love it, and they're just though not outwardly expressive about it.
Speaker 2:
It may be that they feel a little what's the word like? Uncomfortable. Maybe they're not totally confident in themselves in giving that act to you and so they're kind of in their head like am I doing it right? Is this the way that my spouse wants this or enjoys this? Sometimes, when you're really focused on providing a certain form of pleasure for your spouse, you can be a little unsure. So it may be that maybe they're there and you are not able to then really see oh yeah, they're here with me, they want to be here, absolutely.
Speaker 1:
But look, if that's the case, if you're both enjoying it and you're both feeling connected, then carry on.
Speaker 2:
Happy to you.
Speaker 1:
Keep going, but perhaps in that case maybe you can just ask for some more feedback. Right and also, I think if you feel like your spouse is not enjoying it, maybe that's a clue to you that you need to check in to make sure that your spouse is getting some emotional fulfillment, some physical fulfillment, before or after or during this kind of sex.
Speaker 2:
Well and again. That's where there needs to be maybe more than one thing happening so that you're making sure there are moments of higher amounts of pleasure for one spouse than the other. You know that is a part of your overall whole sexual experience, but, you know, if they really don't enjoy it, whether that's physically or emotionally, then you need to just consider that that's not something that you should be doing right now. It doesn't mean that it's off the table forever and always, but maybe not right now it shouldn't be. You know, if your spouse is performing it out of obligation, then the danger is that they are feeding resentment every time that they're providing that form of sex for you.
Speaker 1:
Well, you are feeding that resentment, well yeah that's what I'm saying. If you're accepting passionless sex. You are feeding their resentment of you?
Speaker 2:
Yeah right, they're building that resentment and you certainly don't want that to be a part of your sex.
Speaker 1:
So if there's ways that you can have sex that your spouse is more enthusiastic about, then you ought to be focusing on those areas Right Again. As we always say, the goal for sex is to build connection every time.
Speaker 2:
Every time, every act. And if that's not happening, then you need to reevaluate what you're doing both in and out of the bedroom, because, frankly, unenthusiastic sex often means that there are more problems outside the bedroom as well. So you've got to pay attention to that, yep. But that's a whole other can of worms for a different episode and we are out of time for this one. All right, Matt, give us our wrap up.
Speaker 1:
Refuse to let sex become passionless and simply a place of obligation for yourself or for your spouse. To help improve your own desire and your own passion, start by trying to focus on one simple thing that you can anticipate and that you can enjoy each time that you make love, and don't settle for passionless sex with your spouse. Seek to compassionately understand your spouse's challenge and seek only sex that is connecting and mutually pleasurable.
Speaker 2:
Now it's time to grab your spouse in your Bible and head to your kitchen table to have the conversation about passionless sex. What needs to change in your relationship so that each of you can come to the marriage bed willingly and enthusiastically?
Speaker 1:
We would love to hear your feedback. Contact us by emailing podcast at intimate covenantcom or to submit anonymous feedback and questions, go to our website intimate covenantcom slash podcast and click the button contact the podcast for an anonymous submission form. Thanks again also to Derek and Open Door Financial Advisers for sponsoring the podcast this week and this year. We truly appreciate Derek Contact Open Door at opendoorfacom where finances meet faith and family.
Speaker 2:
Thanks to all of you for listening, for subscribing, for rating the podcast and for sharing it. We've truly humbled by all your support and your encouragement, and thanks especially to our Patreon subscribers for coming alongside us in a very real way. We love you. If you would like to join intimate covenant by supporting the podcast and our greater mission to share God's plan for intimate, holy sexual marriages, we would like for you to subscribe at patreoncom. Slash intimate covenant.