#123: John Witherspoon (NJ) - The Clergyman Who Taught Moral Philosophy

What can we learn from the life and legacy of John Witherspoon, an influential figure in American history who left an indelible mark on the education system and the formation of our nation? In this Sacred Honor series episode, we also delve into Witherspoon's role as a delegate to the Second Continental Congress and the only clergyman to sign the document. Learn about the impact of this incredible leader on the growth of the College of New Jersey (now known as Princeton University) and how his teachings on natural law, separation of powers, and checks and balances inspired students like James Madison.

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Transcript

Hello everyone, and welcome to Episode 123 of Friends and Fellows Citizens. I'm your host, sherman Talosky. Thank you all so much for joining us today. As always, a big shout out thank you to all of our Patreon supporters and to our subscribers as well. Our Patreon supporters have been extremely, extremely helpful in keeping our show going and also just really ensuring that we make incredible content. So if you haven't already check out our Patreon link down in the show notes below, or if you haven't already, make sure to subscribe to Friends and Fellows Citizens so that you get notifications. You can also subscribe to our email list as well, so you can get notifications right to your inbox. 

Today we will be speaking about our next signer. We're still in the colony of New Jersey here in the Sacred Honor series and we are discussing John Witherspoon. No, it is not the actor John Witherspoon you're probably seeing on TV. It is John Witherspoon, the clergyman, who hails originally from Scotland. He was born in 1722, went to a very good a bunch of some very good schools while he was there And he is the only clergyman actually to sign the Declaration of Independence, which kind of shocked me a little bit. I thought there would be some more religious leaders. George Whitfield and others were very influential, although obviously not around really during the time of the American Revolution. Nevertheless, john Witherspoon was someone who had achieved his education in Scotland and received an honorary doctoral degree in Divinity from the University of St Andrews. It's actually a beautiful school. I went there one time in 2014. I was actually accepted to that school and it was definitely a beautiful campus, certainly one place that I can understand why someone like Witherspoon would want to go there and were just anyone really to join those amazing sites. But he was someone who obviously believed in the role of religion and the role of moral philosophy in society. He was a staunch Protestant. He was initially again in Scotland, but he was actually kind of quote unquote recruited, i guess to say invited by two other signers. One of them we've already discussed Richard Stockton, our previous signer, who we covered in the previous Sacred Honor series episode, and also Benjamin Rush, who we will be covering when we get to the Pennsylvania Colony. But Witherspoon was accepted, had accepted that invitation to become the head of a new school called the College of New Jersey. Today we know that the university as the Princeton University. 

 In 1768, witherspoon and his family went to Philadelphia and they settled in New Jersey and he was invited to delete the College of New Jersey. He was very, very influential in this process of transforming the College of New Jersey as you know, a certainly small and influential school to some degree. But he really grew this school and it became so influential, as you'll hear a little bit later on And certainly I would say, given his influence, really elevated Princeton University into what it is now in a lot of ways, even just even a couple hundred years later. He helped and grow the endowment fund for the school. He personally taught, but he also put some changes on the curriculum and he was very much influential and someone who people respected and thought that he was a really good professor, had a great sense of humor. What's fascinating is that the students of that school were many of those students were supporting the Patriot cause, so he really took a new channel. We've seen with some of those signers how they were involved in business, involved with law and with the government. Witherspoon took the education route. Now he himself I would already, obviously later on would serve in the Continental Congress. But to use the education route, i think, is such a unique way of influencing the Patriot cause. 

And my guess and this is just purely guess here, but I find that I think it's because Witherspoon truly believed in this idea, that the ideas of revolution and of liberty and of Patriot causes had to be also spearheaded by youth, by people who were studying these ideas, so that they could institute these ideas later on. The reason why I say this is the case is because he had a number of notable students there And I would think that if you knew that's new some of these brilliant people would come into your university, that you would do what you can to give them ideas and to hopefully have some fantastic alumni, which I mean, what's college nowadays doesn't want a fantastic alumni? Nowadays it's a lot more complicated with endowments and donations and whatnot, which we won't get into today. But one of those famous students of this college in New Jersey is none other than James Madison. Madison was a student, and there were some other notable ones too, and he actually got some ideas from The Witherspoon, specifically about ideas on natural law and on separation powers like checks and balances, and this is, i think, just fascinating to know that one of the future presidents and one of the other founders learned and got ideas when he was a student. And so Witherspoon I think his influence is quite understated. I think when it comes to the impact of education, i think I would say he would be one of the first signers to pioneer education. Now there were some other signers who were involved in the founding of other colleges Ben Franklin, of course, with the University of Pennsylvania, abraham Baldwin with the University of Georgia. I find Witherspoon is incredibly interesting And not to mention, throughout his time, it wasn't just growing the school, but he also emphasized the importance, as I mentioned earlier, of moral philosophy. 

He fundamentally believed that this is incredibly key to a citizenry, to an educated citizen population, as well as important for really just learning and living life, and we'll speak a little bit about some of those takeaways later on. But what a fascinating topic this is, and I would argue one of the topics that we are incredibly missing out nowadays in our society is something we just don't. We don't recognize the value of moral philosophy perhaps as much as we did before And that was what Witherspoon believed in. And moving a bit into the actual middle of the politics of what now, in 1774, 1775, he became a representative in the New Jersey Provincial Assembly and was very much spearheading that movement to remove the royal governor. Obviously, that time royal governors were not so popular. So Thomas Hutchinson the, the governor of Massachusetts, was probably the most prominent victim, and I say victim not because I sympathize with him, obviously, but because he truly was. I think he did a lot of things that, while probably were made very much in line with what he was trying to do in terms of keeping order, probably did a lot of the opposite when it came to really agitating the wrong people. And so, with Witherspoon, get really helping with that, with those events of removing the royal governorship and getting, because of these actions and, of course, his influence in the education system, he received an appointment to the Continental Congress And on July 2nd 1775, i say this is a very interesting story that I found, found on a particular site here that focuses on the signers, which I use a lot in my episodes One time there was a delegate I don't know who the name of that delegate is. 

The delegate probably wouldn't want to get his name out anymore, especially Pinesites 2020, but there's a delegate who actually opposed ratification of the Declaration of Independence And he basically said quote we are not ripe for revolution. And Witherspoon said not ripe, sir. We are not only ripe for the measure, but in danger of rotting for the want of it. Unquote He obviously expressed the fact that we are not only ready for declaring independence, but we're going to be in a lot of danger when it comes to the British finding out what we wanted freedom And this sentiment is something that I've expressed a lot in my episodes of the Sacred Honor series which is realizing that this was such a risk to putting your name on a document to advocate and strongly support freedom from the monarchy. Certainly, witherspoon was not the only one to realize it, but this quote really encapsulates just the gamble that the signers took. And certainly Witherspoon's story says a lot, because what happens later on confirms his fears. Despite the sight, the fact that he signed it, the fears were certainly real. 

In 1776, the British were already advancing into New Jersey and, unfortunately, he had to shut the school down. The British actually took over Princeton. You probably heard of something called the battle of Princeton, which was the American victory, but nonetheless the British occupied much of that territory in that part of the colonies and Did so much destruction to it, burned the library, left a huge, huge path of destruction, including a lot of, where it's been, papers that were unfortunately lost, which, as a sign note, is really sad because it's not just a destruction of his papers But it's, it's the destruction of history. You know, i I always emphasize the importance of preserving history, even if it's history that makes people uncomfortable, because when we are uncomfortable That's when we start to reflect and really learn. You know, we can, we can certainly enjoy, obviously you know, historical artifacts one now, and that that should be part of the experience. But to to see obviously any episode of historical materials destroyed, it is truly sad and it really To me at least, and of course we're biased here, but it to me it really encapsulates just how, how terrible the British regime was. I mean, they weren't even. You know this was certainly war time and whatnot. But but to to go to those kinds of lengths, i think it was, i think it really, it really shows Why that this cause, this patriot cause, was so justified in a lot of ways, in part because of that contrast with the loyalists who who did not believe in this idea of Maintain source for education. Now, certainly it was, you know, a tactical victory, for for the British should to do so, but in the grand scheme of things, just emphasizes the importance of preserving history as we know it. 

One of witherspoon sons actually did fight in the American Revolution. He unfortunately lost his life at the Battle of Germantown, pennsylvania. So just seeing the, the amount of Dedication that witherspoon and his family as immigrants to the colonies, what they went through, what they, how much effort they put into the revolution, is certainly one to admire. When witherspoon became a member of Congress, he he did number of different, different tasks. I won't go through every single woman, but he drafted correspondents and claimed some correspondence to the general general Lafayette, marquis de Lafayette, and He actually was interesting that he designed the seals for the Treasury and the Navy Department, which I thought was interesting. I'm not sure if he wasn't much of an artist I haven't seen anything that that confirms or denies that but that's. That's certainly an interesting job to design seals that represent the departments and the missions of those specific departments. And And he was also, you know, seeing after the destruction that had occurred to the college in New Jersey. He obviously worked very hard to reopen the college and to get students back in those buildings. Kind of reminds you a little bit of probably a little bit of the COVID times, when things were shut down and that reopening of not the obviously not the same scenario, but just like the idea of reopening schools, you know, reopening education Like that's something we just could never imagine in any kind of emergency situation. But he was very insistent on doing so and he was successful to get those classes going by in November of 1778. 

Now, I mentioned earlier that Witherspoon was a Protestant, a very prominent clergyman. His ideas of religion, i think, very much resembled the idea of freedom of religion, which is this idea that you can choose to practice any religion or choose not to practice any religion. He personally chose Christianity as his path of salvation, but he also believed that non-Christian religions could bring virtue to people. Because of this idea of natural law, this concept that there is a natural way of people behaving, and also that there's certain ideas that really hit at the heart of how a free society should operate. Think about civil rights, think about civil liberties, of the Constitution, the Declaration of Independence and the Bill of Rights, those encapsulating natural laws, and, of course, madison, as one of those students, probably got a lot of ideas, probably exchanging those ideas with Witherspoon and some other fellow students. 

On the issue of slavery. You know, witherspoon did own slaves, he spoke out against the abolition of slavery, but here is where a lot there's. You know, i have to just back up a little bit because I see a lot in the news. I saw some I think it was in fall of 2022 or so there were some students at Princeton who were who wanted to remove John Witherspoon as a statue from a plaza, and this just goes to show the ignorance, really, of a lot of people nowadays, the people the like to just now label. It's a culture labeling now you're either you're either so and so, or this and that, and there's no real exploration into these people of for their rights and wrongs. This is this is what we have come to in our society today. 

Well, he, while he was a slave owner, he believed that slavery would gradually disappear within a generation. Now, while that did not happen, but what I found interesting was how he believed that eventually would disappear and that values would change. There were existing laws that, for example, the banning of importation of new slaves, for example, those those were very ground breaking at the time, given how much of the economy was run by slavery. And his belief in this, i think, really is a good lesson on how the issue of slavery is just so much more complicated than what a lot of people, especially like young people, just don't understand. And this is, i think, come really coming from a level of ignorance and something that I think witherspoon and others would be disappointed in with this the fact that our education system is not allowing people to explore and to read more about these people and how it's much more complicated than just pro or anti slavery With any kind of movement there. There has to be some change. Sometimes there's steps forward, like a two step forward, one step backward sort of idea. Sometimes there is six steps forward, sometimes it's six steps backward. You know, change is such a complicated mechanism And for people to just put everyone in label and put everyone into a silo, i think is is a real service to our understanding of American history and really other founders. Witherspoon was just kept so active in politics. He helped with the ratification of the, the constitution. Ultimately he did support the Articles of Confederation. He actually, he actually gradually lost vision in the later years of his life. I think he went blind two years before he passed away. Witherspoon passed away in 1794. Once again, he is the 20th signer of the Declaration of Independence And I wanted to read an excerpt from the from his gravestone, and I think this is written by someone a few years back who quite a few years back I should say, and I think he really encapsulates some of the things that that one could take away from Witherspoon, regardless of his rights and wrongs During an every mental gift. 

He was a man of preeminent piety and virtue and deeply versed in the various branches of literature and the liberal arts. A grave and solemn preacher, his sermons abounded in the most excellent doctrines and precepts and lucid expositions of the Holy Scriptures. Affable, pleasant and courteous in familiar conversation, he was eminently distinguished in concerns and deliberations of the Church and endowed with the greatest prudence and the management and instruction of youth. He exalted the reputation of the college amongst foreigners and greatly promoted the advancement of its literary character and taste. He was for a long time conspicuous among the most brilliant luminaries of learning and of the Church, at length, universally venerated, beloved and lamented. He departed this life on the 15th of November 1774, aged 73 years. 

Some of those elements in this writing is really important, especially with regards to management and instruction of youth of the literary character and taste. This really takes us to a couple of take, a couple of takeaways, as I usually do with the Sacred Honor series, and these takeaways bring about some lessons that maybe we can learn from these signers. The first is we really need to prioritize moral philosophy in our education system. It's great to see that people emphasize STEM or the arts times, or creativity or respect, and those are incredibly important, but none of these things, i don't think, can compare to the foundation of moral philosophy. 

For me, the moral philosophy really comes down to why do we believe certain moral values, probably the most fundamental one that I've probably brought up before, which is why is murder bad in our society? That question is more complicated than people actually want to admit here in the United States. There are certain countries that justify murder depending on whether someone is because someone is not a particular religion, because someone is not a particular ethnicity, or because someone is not a particular part of a clan or maybe, unfortunately, even part of a political ideology or political party. We need to bring back those elements of moral philosophy again into our schools And I would say into our homes as well. I've seen these really disturbing news recently just a few weeks back at least, before this recording, i saw the news on a Friday night or Saturday night a bunch of teens just storming parts of downtown Chicago, just looting stores and cars, jumping on cars, just doing crazy things. I've seen news of young people doing side shows in Oakland, california. 

I just cannot understand why there isn't better enforcement, better recognition that there are fundamental flaws within particular families who are not teaching their kids what the difference is between right and wrong. Moral philosophy, i think, really stems in every single element of our society. It's not just the question of whether murder is right or wrong, it comes down to every single action. Why is it that? I remember when I was little there would be, whenever a child stole a pencil or something, there would be kids like hey, don't steal the pencil, you'll get in trouble with the teacher first of all, but second of all these kids at least my peers at the time recognize that stealing is wrong. That is not something that you should do in a society From these fundamental things. I think we've lost so much of that core education about morality, about the difference between right and wrong. I fear that these two fundamental changes that I'm seeing nowadays are really going to slow us down and potentially erode our moral values. 

The first is this emphasis on just mental health. Now, there is a medicinal side of things. When it comes to mental health, certain people can be diagnosed with certain things. If I had to guess, though, i say a lot of the mental health issues is not just, is not a scientific or medicine sort of diagnosis. I think it's a question that these people do not know what the difference is between right and wrong. They don't have a moral compass, they don't have an understanding of why they do what they do. The question of why, why does this happen? Why is that? science can answer certain questions, but when it comes to the fundamentals of what life means, that, i think science cannot answer. 

I'm seeing some of these stats. This is quoting from the National Institute of Mental Health. Here Now some of the definitions. This is a very scientific study. Here I was shocked to see things like suicide, the second leading cause of death among individuals between the ages of 10 to 14 and 25 to 34. Third leading cause of death among individuals between ages of 15 to 24. Fourth leading cause of death among individuals between the age of 35 and 44. So people up to the age of 44 ish. Suicide is among the top five. I think that suicide is very much the product of people not recognizing the value of their lives. 

I think a lot of this has to start with emphasis of moral education in our schools, teaching young kids why it is that living life is meaningful despite the challenges. There's so many challenges. Things can happen in our lives. It's understandable, but part of that moral education requires a level of social interaction, of taking people away from these phones that are dictating to so many people. Recognizing that building friendships and connections has to be in person. Recognizing the importance of going to religious institutions to understand virtues, to read religious texts, understand why certain things happen in life that are out of our control. When we stigmatize too much with this idea of mental health without recognizing the moral compass that we are not stimulating in young people, i think we are on a very, very destructive path. 

I think the other thing, too is on the spiritualism, which I think is a load of nonsense, in my opinion. I think it's a load of nonsense. The problem with spiritualism, in my view, is that there is no clear distinction between right and wrong. It's this wishy-washy like oh, you can believe whatever you want in this or that. I'm sorry, that doesn't work in a society. You can believe what you want, anything you want, but you cannot do what you want. That's one of the big problems that spiritualism does is that it justifies this belief and this action, sort of free for all that is not dictated in religion. In religion, there is this belief that we do have a moral system, that we do need to act. Good, that we can have disagreements generally on lots of things, but if we cannot agree even on the moral elements, we are in a lot of trouble. 

I hope that Witherspoon and others can inspire people to prioritize moral philosophy as part of education. It underpins every single other subject. You can put in a million different STEM majors, but you cannot replace a moral philosophy with those million STEM majors. Everything needs to be intertwined and coming back to the root of moral values and the purpose of having a strong moral foundation. That should be key in American education nowadays. The second thing is that we need to recognize that change is gradual, not on and off switch. I know that a lot of young people and I talk about young people partly because Witherspoon taught a lot of young people This is the connection here While he certainly believed that change eventually will come, i'm concerned that there's a lot of people who, maybe because positive change hasn't happened a lot, maybe it's because of political dysfunction I'm concerned that a lot of people think that change is just going to happen right away. 

The honest truth is that it doesn't. Whether it's civil rights, whether it's the economy, whether it's education or public safety, all these things take a lot of time to improve, but also for, unfortunately, for bad change to happen. Just a couple of years ago I should say probably last year my family and I were driving through Wyoming. This is just. This county is dominated by a college town and reads some of the news about, just like some of how, the local school board there has basically adopted a lot of very left-wing ideologies. People can have their own views and all that, but the point is there's so many people who like to say, well, this state is red or this state is blue, so there's no chance that there's going to be a change, change will happen. Change happens at very different rates, but that doesn't mean that things will always stay the same. 

So my point of saying that is that at the local level we see that there, i think, there's some realization that change can happen, that change is happening at a local level. And if we don't recognize that it's a gradual change that starts from the local communities and that this change can happen, it'll be years long. People can over time, start adopting new views or modify views. If we don't recognize the reality of those things, we could be hindering ourselves. And that is why I emphasize, regardless of what political ideology you harbor, understand that as long as you have those strong moral foundations, as long as you have those good intentions to make changes, do so in a realistic manner. 

I hope that more young people recognize that this is. You know this takes time, that you cannot have a new way of addressing environmental issues right away. There are certain things that you can do. There are certain trade-offs that people, for whatever reason, don't want to give up. So I hope that people can be aspirational, but the work really starts at the local level, as Tip O'Neill Speaker. Tip O'Neill said, all politics is local And none more so, i think, in the case of John Witherspoon, where, in his little corner of what would be Princeton University, he enacted all these changes. 

That would effectively change the school for years and years to come. If he had been more broad, who knows what that success would have been like. But we know that from those changes he did as a leader, as president of the College of New Jersey, we see how one person can influence that local institution and how, ultimately, that helped change the fabric of the creation of a new nation in the United States of America. And so those are my takeaways, and thank you all so much for listening to this episode of John Witherspoon and the value of religion, moral philosophy and of education. I hope you enjoyed our conversation. If you haven't already, once again make sure to subscribe to Friends and Fellow Citizens. If you haven't already, check out our email updates and our Patreon support. Have a great rest of your day and rest of your week, and remember a day in America is always better when we are with our friends and fellow citizens.