#2 COVID-19

Hungry Jacks | COVID-19 | Cadbury

Today we are looking at all things COVID-19 and discussing some campaigns that have gone during lockdown. We'll be looking at Hungry Jacks and the infamous 'Mouldy Burger'. Then we'll take a look at a montage of advertisements released during COVID-19. Lastly, we're diving into our Classic Creatives and taking a look at the classic 'Cadbury Gorilla'.

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The Science of Advertising Show

Welcome to The Science of Advertising Show. The show where Jonathan Rolley and Dr. Jared Cooney Horvath review the latest ads and the science behind why they influence and persuade human behaviour.

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***

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Transcript

00:00

well welcome to episode 2 of the science and advertising the show we talk all

00:04

things neuroscience memory and effective communication

00:07

today's panel we have dr. jeredy Cooney Horvath a one-man panel the preeminent

00:13

expert in the field of Education neuroscience for the focus of learning

00:16

memory and attention and myself your host Jonathan Rowley

00:27

today we'll be looking at we're a little bit delayed because we've had lockdown

00:32

measures we've had covert 19 it's been spreading throughout the world and

00:35

especially Australia so we have been on lockdown message took quite some time so

00:38

we've actually been released into the wild and we're here today to talk

00:43

through a couple of campaigns that went live just pre covered and also discuss

00:47

covert 19 what was happening in the advertising market so today we'll be

00:50

looking at Burger King and the infamous moldy burger we dig into was it

00:56

effective was it not and we're looking into the science of that the other

00:59

campaign we're gonna be looking at is what advertisers are doing in the

01:03

current market there have done with covert 19 and coronavirus what do they

01:07

put out to market and some interesting insights there and then we're going to

01:10

jump into one of our classics so we're gonna have a look at a very famous

01:14

creative so we're gonna look at the Kabri guerrilla and a bit of fuel

01:19

Colin's there and blast from the past second-last from the past so very famous

01:25

creative but why was it so famous why was it so effective will really be

01:28

drilling into the detail and what key learnings can we take away from that so

01:32

first of all the moldy burger burger king let's jump straight into it and

01:38

have a look what was produced a few months ago by Burger King and what went

01:42

to market

02:02

wonderful

02:05

Lilla

02:12

what a difference our day may I know in my heart the

02:22

differences you

02:29

all right so dr. Jared I have some very strong opinions on this but I'm very

02:35

keen to hear your thoughts cause we had some quick discussion we actually I

02:39

think we're aligned in some ways but we see I'm holding I'm holding on to a

02:43

secret so why don't you start by tackling this and there ought to jump on

02:46

your back Coca Cola so for me there's kind of a few things to consider

02:50

so one they're going quite aggressively at McDonald's you know looking at the

02:53

Big Mac in their burgers and literally you can pick up a burger ten years later

02:56

and it looks very very similar thanks to a lot of preservatives so for me I can

03:00

nearly see how this unfolds it both a brand and a marketing an exact team

03:05

level you know they've got this new idea we've got no preservatives how we gonna

03:08

go out in a big bowl brave way then all of a sudden the marketing team and the

03:13

ad team are working together and they come up with a concept how about we show

03:17

a burger that actually deteriorates and molds and you know it turns into this

03:21

really sort of hideous mess it demonstrates that we don't have any

03:24

preservatives and that really helps tells our story and then they're going

03:27

to the exact team the exit teams like I'm really nervous about this because no

03:32

brands no food brands especially want to promote an image that will potentially

03:37

really put off consumers you know and have that physical reaction that it

03:41

elicits so for me you know there's kind of an agenda there by the marketing team

03:46

and the advertising team to really go out in a very bold way and create a name

03:50

for themselves because there's very it's rare that you had an opportunity to do

03:54

that and for them to actually I think they're incredible salespeople to get

03:57

this across the line first and foremost so doing something like this you reckon

04:01

is more important or bigger for the marketing company than the brand it's so

04:05

Oh hundred percent you you see that you see and this is where the diversions

04:09

come in in market you've got a lot of creative directors and a lot of

04:13

marketers that absolutely love this because they love the big idea and and

04:18

all of a sudden everyone that's been involved in this campaign has become

04:21

pseudo famous because every element community is talking about it so they're

04:26

their stocks have risen quite dramatically as a result we're like the

04:30

Jay a couple weeks ago we're talking about that ad that had Jason wama and it

04:34

felt more like an ad for him and for the thing he was African descent so this is

04:38

really an exercise by the marketing company

04:42

to say look at what we can do as a marketing company and most marketers

04:45

wait there for the opportunity and this is their opportunity to actually

04:47

leverage this so then I come up from a revenue perspective how effective was

04:52

this what is actually meaner and more so what a consumer is going to do as a

04:56

result of it so for me I think there's some incredibly clever thinking that's

05:00

gone in behind it you know first and foremost and I'll actually think there's

05:03

some genius there because you go how best can you articulate this message

05:07

that there's no preservatives you know it's a challenging messaging line that

05:11

that would have been in the brief do you know and to show a burger that literally

05:15

molds and decays you know over a thirty four day window which it was shot by our

05:19

time-lapse you know incredibly clever to demonstrate the key message that they

05:24

were looking to promote in a big bold brave way so in terms of the creative

05:29

agency they've actually delivered in four in terms of the idea but for me I

05:33

look at from a consumer and majority of our decision-making is unconscious it

05:38

sits in our reptilian and mammalian brain you know an Olympic system and

05:42

this is where you see an image and you've just got the immediate emotional

05:46

response that you have to it so for me the immediate emotional response is that

05:50

of repulsion rather than you know an association of desire happiness you know

05:56

appetite that you know that's elevation yet I just want to eat that burger yeah

06:01

you know for me it was even interesting looking at the creative that the The

06:04

Hungry Jack's or the Burger King logo you know was actually black-and-white

06:08

wasn't branded in color so they've kind of shied away from really owning it

06:12

quite reverently as well the Burger King out of David Burger King logo and it's

06:18

quite small and it's quite subtle so they didn't really want to associate

06:21

their brand and logo or their branded IP with the mouldy Burgas I think there are

06:26

also conscious of that but then for me this is where the big challenge is

06:31

you're relying on consumers to the logical logically think through this

06:36

going oh that's a moldy burger why is it a moldy burger aw it's a moldy burger

06:41

because there's no preservatives do you know because it's got no preservatives I

06:45

want to go and eat a Burger King whereas to me that the immediate memory

06:49

Association is moldy burger it's fruit - Burger King that is now locked but for

06:55

me I'm actually really because you're holding out on me like

06:57

what are your thoughts so yeah I think you've totally nailed it um let me just

07:02

real quick did you like the ad or do you think it was ineffective so if you were

07:08

to give it a thumbs up or a thumbs down what would you say I think in terms of

07:11

the amount of attention at God and free PR and press and advertising and the

07:17

commentary around it it was a phenomenal success so from that perspective

07:22

perspective huge win but in terms of revenue through you know the doors

07:30

increasing their customer base for me that's the real measure of success that

07:35

is a massive question mark I have and we'd love to dive in to see what impact

07:39

did it have cuz like you said it was probably if we could look at the revenue

07:42

for the marketing agency probably through the roof hey we got new clients

07:46

everyone loves us but what did it do for Burger King did it work just like you

07:50

said so I I think you laid out all the perfect arguments for why it should have

07:55

worked why it didn't work now all you got to do is and this is what my first

08:00

degree was in film so this is back when I was gosh 18 years old and I just

08:03

remember the best thing my film teacher ever said to us was so we'd pitch our

08:08

ideas and he would always listen he'd say that's a really good idea how are

08:13

you gonna turn that into a movie and you have there's where we really started to

08:17

learn that a cool idea is a cool idea but now you have to draw it into how do

08:20

people think how do people learn how do people remember you've got to make that

08:23

cool idea an actual usable complete product moldy burgers a cool idea what

08:30

they needed was someone to sit down and say great idea how do you turn that into

08:34

an actual campaign and that's what no one did so think about it how do we make

08:38

it a campaign you just hit all the right things our natural instinct when we see

08:43

mold is revulsion because mold makes us sick see mold it's sick we could

08:49

cognitively work our way through that and go okay well mold might actually be

08:52

good and stuff but like you said most people aren't ever gonna do that so how

08:56

do you circumvent a natural reaction you bring in a secondary natural reaction

09:01

that sits above that so in this instance we could have had a number of other

09:04

things including expert opinion what if you had an expert talking over

09:07

discussing mold you go watch it they just come out with a

09:10

documentary a couple months ago called fantastic fungi you watch that and then

09:14

watch this commercial you will love mold because you learned all about the depth

09:18

and mold and now you've got a great response towards mold it's how do you

09:22

change the underlying immediate response so the big thing they could have done it

09:26

in two easy steps two things missing give it to me

09:29

well let me say three things missing step number one distinction bias that's

09:34

what they missed here so when you say distinction boss just for everyone

09:38

that's tuning in what do you mean when you say distinction boss so human beings

09:41

we nothing sits alone with us we only know something is good bad right wrong

09:47

hot cold on off when we can compare it to something else there is no such thing

09:52

as a stand alone stimuli everything we do is a comparator to something else so

09:56

when I tell you that my product is ten dollars who gives a rat's ass I don't

10:00

know if that's good bad right wrong or and different but if I say mine's ten

10:03

dollars and everywhere else is selling it for a hundred now you have a

10:06

distinction bias oh it's less than that or if I say it's

10:09

ten dollars but everyone else is selling it for one dollar oh why is it so

10:12

expensive just I need something to bang it against nothing on its own matters so

10:18

we said do we do this research all the time and science

10:21

give me three bowls of water the middle one is warm left ones cold right ones

10:24

hot and you can do this at home right now put your hand one hand in the cold

10:28

one hand in the hot let them sit there for about a minute and put them both in

10:31

the warm and you'll notice even though it's one temperature both your hands

10:35

register are completely different because it's comparing it to where it

10:38

was before here we don't have a distinction bias all I see is moldy

10:43

burger which is gross but if the point you're trying to make is the mold is

10:48

good and no other burger is gonna give you mold because you have preservatives

10:51

you need to run a 34 day time lapse on a Big Mac from McDonald's and show that it

10:57

ain't changing at all so now we have a distinction where the mold is different

11:00

than something else now I can start to say okay this why would this be good or

11:04

bad so step one distinction bias bring in something to compare it to step two

11:09

you preempt this whole commercial so this this whole campaign needed two

11:15

steps step one was a whole set of commercials that just show things

11:18

molding with an expert talking over it like distinction bias here's

11:23

tomato that doesn't mold here's one that does and the expert then runs over it

11:28

saying other mold is a powerful thing because it demonstrates health look we

11:33

put mold on this tomato and it won't eat it because preservatives are unnatural

11:37

they will kill the mold so you have six months or I don't know whatever six

11:41

weeks of building up where you don't even show your burger you're showing the

11:44

ingredients of your burger a tomato a lettuce leaf a piece of cheese just the

11:49

bread one's molding ones not with an expert saying the mold is good then you

11:55

bring in the complete burger for the second part of the campaign boom left

11:59

side of the screen nothing's molding yours molds now I've got a distinction

12:02

I've got an expert I've you've trained me to recognize that mold is good for

12:06

food step three how do you end the commercial you reverse the clock so the

12:10

last image I see isn't a moldy burger it's your healthy burger today love so

12:15

the last image can't be gross the final image when it's gross I tap in I go I

12:20

remembered all these build ups oh great reverse it let me see it healthy again

12:25

and say come and get our good preservative-free burger they had it

12:29

they just didn't think their way through it to make it a powerful enough ad to

12:34

make me actually want to go out and buy this burger does that Zek so step one

12:38

distinction bias mold is only bad or good when I have something to compare to

12:43

so give me a comparator - you got a trained me you got to prep me for this

12:46

don't just show me your product gross he Smeal it he Smeal it out bring it

12:51

together and finish on a high note not on that so you know I thank you cuz

12:57

that's amazing insight because for me I was I was very adverse to it because all

13:00

I was saying is the correlation and the code that happens between the moldy food

13:06

item and a branch do you know what I mean that's what's it's wearisome a it's

13:10

nearly now you've got there's a pre-work like it's a longer narrative so we

13:14

actually need to prime the audience that mold is great and why is mold great so

13:19

there needs to be like a prime or narrative building up to it then you've

13:24

different yeah like you were saying my natural reaction is reversion cool spend

13:28

a couple weeks giving me a secondary reaction teach me that it's good and

13:32

then do what you want to do with it and then I love the reverse the fryer

13:36

you know and I mean so the last image that you're left with is a really

13:40

appetizing and you know if you're looking at the marketing textbook or the

13:43

advertising textbook for anything food or beverage it's an image that Alyssia

13:49

elicits literally like a saliva gland starting to you know really appetizing

13:54

type of reaction rather than one that's your pulse so amazing insight and thank

14:00

you for leaving me hanging because that makes a lot more sense now but yes could

14:03

have been good it was a good idea I just wish they had my film school teacher to

14:07

say cool idea how do you make that into a movie what do you got to do with it

14:11

now absolutely love it all right big one by the voice distinction bias this is

14:16

one thing to look at of moldy burger but if they would have put that next to a

14:19

burger that's not molding now you how do I got something to balance it against

14:24

mold on its own all I got to do is to think about my past so it's like I have

14:28

to add the distinction so anytime I've seen mold it's nasty you got to give me

14:32

something that compared against ten dollars is only expensive when

14:35

everything else is $1 mold is nasty you give me so I think that was in essence

14:39

was a challenge that the image of mold our natural reaction which is very

14:43

unconscious is to run away from it and not put that anywhere near our mouth you

14:47

know and that's kind of the challenge which is why they've also gone out with

14:50

it because it's very bold and then some literally the antithesis of what the

14:54

marketing textbook is or the playbook is for food and beverage

14:57

I reckon they miss that if you would have shown me a McDonald's burger over

15:02

there's time span of 30 days and it looks exactly the same

15:05

that would be revolt repulsive that would be revolting to me that's disgust

15:09

but then it would also go to the type of clientele that goes to some of these

15:12

institutions do you know what I mean their primary concern may not be health

15:16

and nutrition yeah yeah so are you even talking to the right audience is the

15:20

right message for the right audience so there's also that to consider as well do

15:24

McDonald's customers actually give a [ __ ] that their burger in 30 days still

15:29

looks exactly the same as what it did all the preservatives it's right who

15:33

cares about preservatives might be people who would care too much to even

15:36

go to my god so do you even have the right communication for the clientele

15:40

that's coming to your institution dad I hadn't considered that's that's interest

15:44

cuz you're absolutely right people who you would assume on the preservatives

15:48

and organic foods and stuff that's who would love that commercial

15:53

who would say look at the mold that's healthy that's great that's awesome or

15:56

not the kind of people who go naturally youtuber totally so then you but are you

16:00

trying to attract a different clientele that you are your typical Burger King

16:06

customers going hey now we don't have preservatives in our food maybe you

16:10

should consider us you know because it is fresh produce as such Oh

16:15

see now see this is why I don't know the Mart you know the marketing but that's

16:21

such an awesome idea is that how do you attract someone like my wife if the

16:25

entire point of marketing is so you've got your customer base keep them happy

16:28

but we got to draw more how do we draw on people that we know won't come to our

16:32

restaurant we tap into their desires they won't come because I think we're

16:36

unhealthy but still and if that was a strategy very clever but then you've

16:41

also got you've missed that loop in both the priming in terms of the education

16:45

but then you've also got the association between now the the brand that it is and

16:51

mold which is not a great Association to have so I think there's still a several

16:55

areas that needed to be sort of addressed but very close but for me the

16:59

amount of PR press and publicity at God is huge it's worth it was worth it but

17:04

we'll change gears slightly now let's talk all things advertising and covert

17:09

19 there has been a lot of brands that have come out and market with new

17:13

updated messaging trying to be relevant to the change in market which means

17:19

isolation ISO life so what does this mean well let's just have a quick look

17:24

at a compilation of a variety of ads that have gone to market during covert

17:29

19 and what they've been saying

18:15

when we first opened our doors since 1926 since 1978 for 60 years for 75

18:22

years for over 80 years in 90 years over 100 years nationwide has been on your

18:27

side restaurants have always been there for

18:29

you Nissan has been with you through thick and thin we will do what we've

18:33

always done take care of people we're people people people people people

18:38

people the family family family family family family family family family

18:43

families our families families even now especially now especially now right now

18:49

now more than ever more than ever today more than ever today more than ever in

18:54

times like this at times like these during these difficult times in these

18:58

troubled times and challenging times trying times in these times of

19:02

uncertainty during this time of great uncertainty during these uncertain times

19:06

during these uncertain times at on certain times and uncertain times

19:09

uncertain time unprecedented times unprecedented times unprecedented times

19:15

is unprecedented moment in our history time of social distancing while things

19:19

have slowed down as we turn more inside while the doors may be closed while the

19:24

distance between us has gotten bigger the more we stay apart we still find

19:28

ways to stay close even when we're apart even if we can't

19:32

stand closer than six feet we can all stay connected to work school and most

19:36

importantly to each other there's still ways to talk to each other

19:40

all without leaving the comfort and safety of your home without leaving the

19:43

safety of your home from home home home home home home that's the key Buick and

19:52

GMC are here to help con Edison is here to help here to help our teams are here

19:57

we are here we're here we are here here for you here for you we're here for you

20:03

we're here for you we are here for you we're here for you we are here for you

20:07

we'll be here for you Runnings is here for you we're still

20:11

here for you we're with you we're part of your community so you can

20:15

trust us you can count on us and we'll get through this together together

20:21

together together together together together together together together

20:26

together together together together together together and together together

20:31

together together together together together together together together

21:06

Master Card alright well I might just step in here and I'll just give a bit of

21:13

perspective from brand and advertisers and what happened behind the scenes so

21:17

we had this conversation with many many of our clients they were coming to us

21:21

going changes this is a change of market this is a change of play consumer

21:25

behavior is not what it was a few weeks ago we need to communicate to them on

21:30

their level and have a huge amount of empathy how do we do it so for me I got

21:36

it but the challenge from both a creative and production and pulling

21:40

something together is one we don't have access to talent or film crews to really

21:47

really short deadlines they want to mobilize this in a week or two so we

21:51

literally had to get scripting ideas and everything else together without access

21:55

to film crew or any sort of staged production so our options will literally

21:59

use what's in the can what have we got historically or what can we get you know

22:04

either paying for licensure or license fees for specific footage and then

22:08

you've got the narrative and a lot of brands wanted to tell their brand story

22:12

do you know so for me I've just got a couple of interesting outtakes which you

22:16

can see through this so the structure of most creatives have been show some

22:20

imagery that connects with the audience that empty streets empty offices empty

22:25

stadiums empty roads then it's going how long you been in business since 1978

22:29

over 18 years people family then it's right now difficult uncertain times and

22:38

then the distance between us you know there's a gap there's a void and then

22:42

that sort of is how it all finishes up and for me it's really intriguing

22:47

because it's literally a lot of the branded work they have done has been

22:51

neglected they don't reinforce and remind any of their historic branded

22:55

structure so you could literally lap slap any logo on that particular

23:00

creative and it could have done a job was that a General Motors ad was out of

23:04

for dad was that a Chevrolet ad it doesn't matter because it all could have

23:07

looked the same and this is now even worse than that

23:12

that so many ads going to market all sound like a musical ballad that sits in

23:18

the background with a voiceover with this imagery they all look sound and

23:22

feel exactly the same so if we go to our two primary tenants in terms of what is

23:29

effective especially for memory first we need is attention the second is simple

23:33

so if everything is sounding the same you're not getting any attention at all

23:38

so it just blends in with the rest of the noise so incredibly ineffective for

23:44

your particular brand even though the brand managers are sitting there giving

23:48

everyone else in their team a high-five and a slap on the back going how amazing

23:52

a way where empathetic we're connecting with the market when the reality is

23:56

their market is not even picking up on their radar thing they're not even

24:00

noticing the ad but yeah canteen can to get your thoughts so I see I think

24:06

you're spot on the way it's been laid out does nothing

24:10

to grab attention does absolutely nothing to build memory does absolutely

24:13

nothing to establish any thing in my brain or noticing it's like the entire

24:20

world is just trying to fly under the radar and I completely get I've been

24:25

thinking about this quite a lot over over the last couple days I get it

24:29

during a time of crisis you don't want to be seen as that company that's like

24:33

hey come by my car come do this and walkie me and a.22 ha ha ha where's a

24:38

crow on my shoulder what how crazy cuz ain't nobody got time for that when

24:45

human beings are under stress when we're under threat we will take anything that

24:50

makes us feel uncomfortable and assign that to the threat you now become part

24:54

of the problem leave me alone how dare you try and get money when people are

24:58

dying over here so I get this I don't want to say a version but desire to just

25:06

coast to just be like it's all cool it's all good we'll come back sooner or later

25:11

how do you then establish an identity during a time of crisis I've been

25:16

thinking about this you don't I the first I totally agreed with everyone in

25:22

the world who said ok this this was a bad move

25:24

for memory but an interesting thing about stressing crises once you so

25:29

chronic stress once you hit about three or four days of the continuous stress

25:34

response your memory machinery by and large shuts down the cortisol the major

25:39

stress hormone sits in your hippocampus which is we'll just call the gateway to

25:43

memory so you want to remember anything that information has to go through your

25:46

hippocampus at around day three or four of stress cortisol starts to kill your

25:51

hippocampus it starts to turn it off and the reason being that your brain assumes

25:56

that once stress hits a certain length you're helpless there's nothing more to

26:00

learn you are in a helpless situation in which case remember nothing until it's

26:04

over and then we'll bring you back out so always say if you step in a bear trap

26:07

and you know you're not gonna get help for a week you don't want a deep lasting

26:11

memory for five days of trauma you want no memory or light memory and then until

26:16

you're out and then the machinery comes back on it says okay back to reality

26:19

let's go kovat the last are the first couple months especially I would say

26:23

February March April or stress times nobody is forming memories anyway if you

26:28

come out with a massive campaign either you're gonna revolt people and they're

26:32

gonna automatically tie you to the negativity of the campaign or they're

26:36

not gonna remember it anyway so what are all these people doing

26:38

they're just posting they're just sitting memories will start to be made

26:43

once everything calms down once the stress response dies I actually think

26:46

we're starting to hit that spot now we crested this hill probably about two

26:50

weeks ago where things started to feel a little more normal now is when you want

26:55

to say I did something so the best companies are the companies like Dyson

26:59

which no advertising or anything but what did they do they built ventilators

27:03

at the time no one was thinking about it caring about it Weil just wanted to

27:06

survive but in hindsight we're gonna go back and we're gonna say okay which

27:09

companies actually did something Dyson did something this company do there's a

27:15

company in UK that turned there I think it's um no what is it bull burry is that

27:21

a clothing company Obree Burberry Burberry that's the one I don't you tell

27:26

I don't wear clothes Target Burberry chain turned one of their factories into

27:33

doing nothing but making masks and gowns for patients now that our memories are

27:37

going to come back online and we're gonna look back we're gonna

27:39

say that was good work damn those companies did some work high-five for

27:44

them that wasn't a brand it wasn't an advertisement it was an action that they

27:48

knew at this moment we're not ready to think when we are ready to think again

27:52

we're gonna think back and go good work so as Soares as first I was thinking all

27:56

these general advertisements were useless now I'm sorry to think no

27:59

they're actually playing the right game at this moment you don't want to stand

28:02

out because if you do you're just gonna be linked to a horrible time in

28:06

somebody's life you want to coast and you want to turn it back on once memory

28:10

and people start to feel normal again say this is super interesting because

28:14

we've done a lot in terms of historic especially looking at recessions and

28:17

even depressions yeah and a lot of phenomenal brands advertised quite

28:22

aggressively during these times for several reasons one people had more time

28:26

on their hands you know so though consuming more media so many consumption

28:29

went up yeah the cost of media plummeted so 20 or 30 cents in the dollar so a

28:35

beautiful mix if you're looking at efficiencies that's if you have the

28:38

financial resources to go to market so during the times it actually helped them

28:42

you know during these tough periods hold market share but then as soon as they

28:47

came out of them they just skyrocketed and they took market share like never

28:51

before so this is really interesting especially with several of our clients

28:55

as soon as the curve had really startin to flatten and the narrative and the

29:00

dialogue and market was more around when are we opening up things what's

29:03

happening to school you know homeschooling sucks we need to

29:07

get out do you know we need to get the economy going again this is more of the

29:10

like the narrative that's going on around us rather than it's all doom and

29:15

gloom we're all gonna die you know let's insulate ourselves and wear masks you

29:19

know so as soon as the tie log and the commentary in media was more around

29:24

what's happening when are we going to get out of isolation yeah we actually

29:28

started to see both leads from clients naturally jump yeah you know but media

29:34

is still incredibly cheap and you know the market is very favorable in that

29:38

perspective but now it's interesting that you say that as soon as cortisol is

29:41

no longer present that's when people come in restarting and they're coming

29:45

back online but he kind of nearly need to keep your powder dry a little bit for

29:49

that moment and just look everywhere or depression you've got the period

29:54

where people are in panic they're in fear where am I gonna get my next meal

29:57

how am I gonna have my family all these type of conversations but as soon as

30:01

that becomes the norm or they can see their way out or you know that the

30:07

incredible fear of stress is no longer present that is your opportunity to go

30:12

quite aggressively is that too hard and that's what if you could and I this is

30:16

now you got a prediction which is one of the hardest things in the world but if

30:20

you can predict when you're gonna calm when things are gonna calm down you hit

30:23

that sweet spot where memory systems come back online so it's a once you

30:28

press that hill and people are the panic is over the cortisol is done the stress

30:32

is done things are still cheap you're the first one out of the gate screaming

30:37

look at my tutu look at my thing and in that moment that's when people are

30:41

exactly we want a tutu we want a thing you hit you find the right sweet spot to

30:45

be the first to jump in at a cheap level there that's the creme de la creme it's

30:50

fascinating because exactly the same as investing you know as a markets

30:53

plummeting and I've had a lot of people come to me going he going all in the

30:56

market when are you buying and I'm just like well I'm not buying anything at the

31:00

moment because I'm not sold that we're even close to the bottom yeah you know

31:04

we've seen a big jump and you know that's nearly correlated with the

31:07

consumer sentiment yeah but you know as an investor the last thing you want to

31:10

do isn't invest where you're not you don't know that we're coming out of it

31:15

I'd rather go hit the bottom and then we've jumped by five or ten percent you

31:18

know and then there's some sort of sentiment there and you can jump then

31:21

you can actually go in and rather than going time it perfectly this is the

31:24

bottom you nearly need to to wait for the market to shift a little bit you've

31:29

got the financial resources then to go you know what's good that what's

31:33

interesting is the marketplace is at lags

31:37

it's when you talk about economics and stuff that kind of all stands on its own

31:42

world and that's why it's hard to predict economics fluctuations and stuff

31:46

human sentiment is very easy to judge because we can feel it now a lot of

31:51

people don't talk about this we know this in our work but we don't quite know

31:56

how to handle it yet that human contact is everything we can read each other's

32:01

emotions we can feel when someone says there's a vibe in the room

32:05

it's a very specific thing we don't know what it is yet but we know it exists so

32:09

we're trying to find ways to describe it through mirroring each other through

32:13

interpreting each other's body language but it could be I don't know where

32:17

emanating force fields that everyone can feel who knows what but we do know it

32:21

exists you know what the world feels like which means you can ride feelings a

32:27

lot faster than you can ride money or some obscure abstract concept of wealth

32:34

you we can feel when the world changes and we felt it about I I could almost

32:39

point the day about two weeks ago when I looked at my wife I said it's over the

32:44

whole sensation of being in Melbourne just shifted almost overnight and it was

32:48

like now exactly like you said all of a sudden people started talking about do

32:53

we start to go back to schools when do we open the haircutting places when do

32:56

we open the restaurants again luckily since that's the crest for our feeling

33:01

for some reason you had enough stuff in the bank were you prepped were you like

33:04

okay we already have our ads ready to go we have this big one-month branding

33:09

thing and we're gonna do all this stuff and you just wait and you trust yourself

33:12

and you go it just happened didn't it and everyone agrees yep we're over it

33:17

get it out now when it's still 20 cents to the dollar when no one else is paying

33:21

attention when everyone else is still playing it safe

33:23

because they're or they're now saying okay how do we get out of this

33:26

you've already prepped for that moment but this is the other thing as well many

33:29

brands will wait too late they'll actually want to see the trio's I want

33:33

to see financial reports they want to see consumer sentiment where where as

33:37

for me going back to that point and this is like if you've got any insights

33:40

whether it's you know a machine based learning platform the actually measures

33:45

sentiment market where the emotion or the feeling has shifted that is

33:50

literally like your buy trigger to go back into the market while it still is

33:55

20 cents in the dollar not 40 or 50 or 70 when it's starting to rebound buying

34:00

at a very very low base which is 20 cents in the dollar when everyone else

34:04

is still sitting on their hands going I'm not sure it's the right time correct

34:09

you know I'm not sure and I think that hesitation will all be the catalyst for

34:13

you to miss out on what is especially in my opinion one of the most amazing times

34:17

for us brands to build and take market share

34:20

like never before but again you want to go very aggressively with the resources

34:25

you've got and there's not many brands out there with a huge amount of

34:28

resources yeah so super interesting but I would I would say to you I I think

34:32

another way you'll see this so go back to those commercials I promise you those

34:36

were made and came out during the time of peak stuff and so that's why we're as

34:41

naturally I'm like oh you just lost all recognition I'm totally fine with that

34:45

you already lost recognition anyway most people spent the last month watching

34:49

Netflix and so I'm just trying to like I did the tiger King one did you watch

34:56

that one yeah everyone was talking okay so we got tiger King we got watch in a

35:00

couple months ask yourself what you remember from tiger king and it will be

35:05

next to nothing the show itself will be next to nothing you'll remember a couple

35:08

of names you remember one or two scenes but it'll be gone we've just spent the

35:13

last month in a shell we put a lot of information in but we didn't for many

35:17

many memories for it so I was whereas initially I was saying you just wasted

35:21

your time you needed to do more now I'm going back saying no you recognize it

35:25

this is this is not that nothing is happening right now we're all in stasis

35:29

so why push during stasis wait till spring comes and we start to thaw and

35:36

now hit me yeah there's also I'm not sure if you've seen it there was a study

35:39

that's just coming out of was out of France in terms of brands that have kept

35:44

their original message yeah all the way through compared to other brands that

35:48

pivoted to a covert 19 message or what they find there was no difference really

35:53

you know the brands that actually kept their message do you know it actually

35:56

any better didn't do any better didn't know any more you know and I mean so it

35:59

was like really is just this black hole of time so the results were kind of

36:03

plateaued or flat do you know and it actually didn't show there was a

36:05

decrease in results or performance there was still the same sort of sentiment we

36:10

we get it in this is what I love very rarely have we seen it and I don't know

36:13

that we've seen it ever in our lifetimes on a worldwide scale usually you get it

36:19

on very small scales 9/11 the US had it some people didn't if you're ever going

36:23

through a divorce you got it but we just recognize where you enter into these

36:27

black hole times where life is happening but it's not really happy let me

36:32

this one aren't you then so say it's a product that normally gets great

36:37

traction with a sale like a 50% off or 40% off or some sort of value yeah so

36:41

the people that are in market and I get that there's a lot of people out there

36:45

with a high level of cortisol in their body but say they need a new product for

36:49

their home that they'll going to buy anyway and they need it and they've got

36:51

the resources to get it but you're still promoting it as a 50% off you know for

36:56

me I think that's an incredibly good thing because you're still helping your

36:58

consumer solve a problem that they've got you know and that's the message they

37:02

still want to hear whereas there's been a lot of people out there going I don't

37:05

want to promote a sale message you know because you know I don't want to feel

37:10

like I'm trying to sell it we'll all be commercial during these times whereas

37:14

the contrary view of that is there's still people out there that need a

37:19

vacuum cleaner that want 50 percent off because they're vacuum cleaner just

37:22

broke but then everyone else that thinks you're going hard at a sale message

37:25

they're not going to recall it anyway so then I then I'm like oh how do you

37:30

tackle that one so you've got to go it's know that's really do you go soft sell

37:35

message in that case in that case cuz you think about it especially with

37:38

everyone taking such a huge hit economically over the last couple months

37:42

the last thing you want is a sales message you don't want to be seen as not

37:46

recognizing what's happening in the world right after 9/11 you don't want to

37:49

be the one coming out saying get a vacuum you want to be the one to

37:52

acknowledge 9/11 and to help we've taken 50% off all of our stock or something

37:57

like that so it becomes a soft sell message which might still in that moment

38:02

help somebody make the right buying decisions guide them your way the one

38:06

thing you can't expect from that would be long-term memory formation for that

38:10

so I'm gonna go out buy my vacuum it could be a couple months later somebody

38:14

says where'd you get that vacuum and I just like you know I got her online I

38:17

don't really remember so it's it's it's enough during the time to get them in to

38:21

buy her things but you can't assume that that's gonna have the same impact as

38:25

general ads I think there's two conversations there you've got one it's

38:28

brand yeah and you've got another one it's generating revenue for your

38:31

business right now you know and if you need general you need revenue to keep

38:35

your business alive yeah you know what I mean you're still going to have to get

38:38

revenue into the business you can't go into hibernation for one month six

38:42

months two years do you know waiting for the moment where

38:45

consumers intimate changes if you're selling

38:47

vacuums you still have to sell vacuums yeah or your business won't be around

38:51

when we come out of it do you know so this is and I think this is a challenge

38:55

a lot of people are having they want to be empathetic to the market but then

38:59

they don't want to look and feel and sound outlander like bit like everyone

39:04

else in market that's been empathetic which means especially like we in direct

39:09

response to call it a grabber you know it's is the first three to five seconds

39:12

of an ad that you get attention again one of the primary tenets you need to be

39:16

successful if you don't have attention you know we're you know and that's kind

39:19

of like if you go very empathetic with a sale message do you know what I mean you

39:22

may not be getting attention which then you have a message there so this this is

39:27

where I think a lot of brands are actually really quite confused yeah how

39:30

do we play the current hand that's been dealt to us I need revenue so I need to

39:35

sell but they don't want to appeal like I'm being you know taking advantage of

39:40

the current market but right so you're at odds so you're right so the two

39:43

debates is one is the brand debate how do we maintain our identity without

39:47

looking like [ __ ] and two is the sales debate how do we sell to maintain

39:51

your identity right now you can't be crazy to get a sell you need to get

39:55

attention how do you get attention you have to break a prediction right now if

39:58

you break the prediction of this is all nonsense how do you break that

40:04

prediction what do you come out and say kovat is a myth ha ha or what did what

40:11

did Trump say the other day gargle with bleach ha ha I mean those messages work

40:16

but by being unpredictable you're actually pissing people off because in

40:22

this moment I don't want them predictable I want stasis I'm sick of 10

40:25

different government people telling me different things I want one common

40:28

message but then this is if you break prediction if you come out with a sales

40:32

message that you could have run pre prior to covered yeah it's actually

40:36

sounding very different to everything else it's in markers a lot of retail

40:39

over either shut their doors or so there's not a lot of retail message

40:42

going out now whereas if you go out with a strong retail message you definitely

40:47

break the prediction but then the challenge you have from a brand

40:50

perspective as you may associate your brand to a negative circumstance but

40:55

then for me if you're high levels of cortisol

40:57

doesn't matter it doesn't matter anyway so the only person people that are

41:00

actually going to be listening or taking in the communication are people that are

41:04

in market now that need a vacuum need a new sofa so for me I'm like to keep your

41:10

doors open and and everything else you need to sell product right now which

41:13

means you need attention but then more so than ever people are holding on to

41:17

their dollars so tight yeah that nearly the value that you had on the deal or

41:22

offer that you had pre covered needs to be exaggerated do you know so it's

41:27

nearly like you know normally we have a 50% sale but we know we get attention we

41:31

know you're doing it tough right now to help you through this we're offering an

41:35

additional 10% offer any purchase that happens during lockdown because the one

41:41

thing in that compilation no one was selling anything nothing was there was

41:44

no proposition was all brand yeah and I get it because the media would have been

41:48

booked there was delight in charge and everything else which is an option you

41:51

couldn't use but there'll be a lot of brands that go mmm I'll let's just

41:54

leverage you what I've got let us pivot our message to be more relevant but they

41:58

pull it back and this is funny because this is probably the exact same

42:00

conversation they were having a roundtable at this time and you see even

42:04

you and I were going up and down where sometimes you can break through

42:07

sometimes you can't and you kind of keep settling back on this middle ground

42:11

where it's like let's just be cool with everything because so if you're in the

42:15

middle of a crisis if you're in the middle of chronic stress one of the few

42:18

things to break through and take you back into gear are additional threats so

42:24

if I'm stuck in my in my bear trap and I'm having a good old I'm not

42:27

remembering much of anything until somebody comes with a gun and points out

42:30

of my face that's a secondary threat that's enough

42:33

to break through now I'm gonna remember this boom if the baseline prediction

42:37

during this crisis time is home relax family be cool I'll be happy to break

42:43

that prediction can't be nice the only way to come through that prediction is

42:47

gonna be a secondary threat and in which case that's where I see a lot of brand

42:51

saying well I don't want to be seen as a bonus threat I don't want to be I don't

42:55

want to break through your fog only be knowing the only way to really do that

43:00

is to scare the daylights out of you in which case now you're gonna hate me even

43:04

more it's like so that's why I kind of if you have the money like all these ads

43:08

did the UPS isn't I don't mind the the coasting I don't

43:13

mind you saying two months it's the safe option you know as a brand manager yeah

43:18

you know you might you've invested in your brand over 10 20 50 100 years the

43:23

one thing that you don't want to do is something that's going to have a

43:26

negative detriment to your brand so again I this is why a lot of large

43:30

brands will tend to play it safe you know because the last thing they want to

43:34

do is have a negative impact on their brand or Association rather than going

43:38

where's the opportunity an interesting one that's just come to me now was we've

43:41

actually had a brand that usually has very aggressive sale messages they're

43:44

pivoted to more of an educational product base do you know nearly a

43:49

motivational inspirational type of you know and it's demonstrating product and

43:54

how it transforms you know part of their house and other bits and pieces which

43:58

has been interesting it still hasn't worked and they're still not doing

44:01

anywhere near the same sales revenue they were prior but if you're looking at

44:04

all the metrics it's actually really encouraging because anyone that's in the

44:08

market for this particular product or industry is still going and doing their

44:12

research and they're moving in the funnel they may not be transacting now

44:15

but you're still getting their interest because there's a problem there that

44:18

they're looking to solve anyway but from a brand perspective it may not be there

44:22

but it's it's demonstrating something they may not have considered but so

44:25

you're not saying nothing you're but you're still saying something different

44:28

you're teaching them which is more than just saying hey we're in this together

44:32

we've been around for ideas we exist so you pivot and then now watch when you

44:37

pivot back to sales I actually reckon what we're back in the

44:40

time now for sales where I think especially in Melbourne what are we now

44:44

we're back we're coming to late April you know I saw it about a week ago where

44:49

it really started to shift and I saw volumes come back for a lot of brands

44:52

and a lot of brands were actually calling me going it's nowhere near as

44:55

bad as what I thought it was going to be everyone we felt it every human being

44:59

felt it and we all knew when it happened it was the ones that were ready prepped

45:03

and Artie had [ __ ] oh excuse me stuff in the can are we allowed to spy on our

45:06

clothes we can okay the people who already had [ __ ] in the can and said the

45:10

moments here go pop go are doing fine it's it that's what I think moving

45:15

forward my big takeaway is gonna be that during times of crisis memories are

45:19

already gonna be out so everyone's just in a

45:22

you'll know when the crisis is over not by metrics not through AI not through

45:28

statistics on CNN you're gonna know by philia you're gonna wake up one morning

45:32

and the world will feel different trust that instinct that is a thing so it's

45:37

nearly the brands that are more in tune to EQ than anything else are the ones

45:41

are gonna come out and talk because they'll be able to navigate through it

45:43

more intuitively then and the ones that trust it so you get a bunch of guys

45:48

around a table and right now all of them would agree oh it feels different and

45:52

then they'd intellectually debate so is it time now to jump in don't worry about

45:56

the intellectual debate if everyone around the table knows it's done if you

46:00

feel it act as though it's done which is so interesting because you've got your

46:04

you know your owner that's in a smaller it might be owner occupy that's also the

46:10

CEO they'll ultimately have the final say if they feel it they will take the

46:14

punt and they've got a higher tolerance for risk as well and we're seeing that

46:17

where they're getting more aggressive whereas if you've got the bigger

46:19

institutions that are governed by a lot of boards that are very much stuck in

46:24

head rather than heart and emotion they will wait and they'll delay because

46:29

there's risk appetite there but they also thinking their way through it like

46:32

you and investments they're gonna wait til there's enough actual hard data to

46:36

show me that the markets coming up now I'll invest generally the people who got

46:40

a big were the ones who felt it but this also goes through risk/reward brands at

46:45

a higher risk appetite read the play potentially better and going more

46:49

aggressively when they feel the shift where it's 20 cents in the dollar not

46:53

for the brands that are waiting till it's 70 cents in the dollar and the

46:57

opportunity has been missed and a good news report I like about this though is

47:00

is you can assume with a tragic with a crisis like this the risk is done even

47:06

if we hit a secondary peak and there's almost every chance to think we will we

47:10

will not hit the same stressor as we did the first time why is that because we've

47:16

been here before a stressor can only if this is gonna

47:19

sound horrible but if 9/11 would have happened a year later we would have had

47:24

enough emotional resilience and resources to deal with it differently

47:28

one of the things that makes a primary stress are so unique is usually it's

47:32

it's unprecedented its unknown and we sit we

47:36

do you remember when this first started coming out when nobody knew what the

47:39

heck was going on so for us it really hit late Feb and Hong Kong it was kind

47:44

of late Jay and I happened to be there when it was really going there and you

47:48

wake up and you just don't know what to expect you you feel completely I mean I

47:53

don't watch the news I haven't watched it for years I would watch the news for

47:56

about 6 hours a day cuz I just don't know what the heck is happening we hit a

48:00

secondary peak we'll know exactly what's happening we'll say oh this is the same

48:03

as before they're gonna put us back into temporary lockdown we're gonna have the

48:06

oldies stage 3 so the stressor won't hit anywhere near as hard which means I

48:09

would say once you feel this this first peak is down go to go to town hit it up

48:15

because even if we hit a second peak it's alright

48:17

or we're back online we're not gonna react the same way so you can just keep

48:20

on brand you can keep messaging and keep doing what you do it's fascinating

48:23

because if for me it's stress conditioning do you know it's it's like

48:26

the first time you jump out of a plane yeah you know you don't recall much at

48:30

all literally the the the cortisol levels as the stresses are so high that

48:34

it's literally just surviving to get through it

48:37

yeah well the time you've jumped out a hundred times of a plane you're so

48:40

conditioned to the stress that is actually just the new normal

48:44

do you know so you can actually navigate your way through it so for me and this

48:48

is like and this is to my point if you look at depressions or recessions you

48:52

know dot-com bubble you know no I knew what was going on for six months 12

48:56

months but the more they got used to this is the new environment this is you

49:02

conditioned to the level of stress you know and it's this would be interesting

49:06

in looking at World Wars and other things as well did people get more used

49:10

to the level of stress do you know then what they were previously and I think

49:14

that's very hard to answer because no one always actually here but you know

49:18

for me yo when do people get you know sort of acclimatize to the new norm that

49:24

for me then as soon as your cortisol is out of your campus then you can start

49:28

forming memory that is your opportunity as an advertiser or someone in brand to

49:34

get more aggressive as soon as that peak has really started to diminish and it

49:38

becomes a new baseline you may see the economic fundamentals not have changed

49:43

but in terms of the psychology of the people within your nation that is you

49:48

key metro rather than what's happening in the you

49:53

know the economy of the state apply because the stress may be out but

49:57

they're not spending as yet just but the spending will always come back it's

50:03

gonna be there so when was the right time to jump on so we call it by the way

50:06

it's it's the term it's habituation we have every animal goes through it once

50:11

you habituate to a circumstance you stop responding to that circumstance in the

50:16

same way right now we've all have bitchu ated tick Ovid so even if it comes back

50:21

in the next six months or habituated it's not gonna hit us the same way if

50:24

another disease came out that probably be a different stress aware now we don't

50:28

know how many people are dying we don't know how fast it's spreading we could go

50:32

right back in we don't necessarily carry our habituation across all stimuli but

50:37

in this instance I would say if you live in Melbourne at least or Australia is

50:42

this as usual now we're back love it so this is this is from the archives it's

50:48

the classic so this is one of the great ads that has been and gone before us

50:52

what can we learn before it so today we are looking at Cadbury not only just

50:57

Cadbury are we looking at the Cadbury gorilla gorilla roll it juju and now

51:03

like there's purple lines

52:51

so there we have it there we have the Capra gorilla with the famous fuel

52:55

Collins so Jared please talk us through thoughts on why this was such an amazing

53:01

and memorable ad two big reasons why well three big reasons why one you have

53:08

to go back to the time so looking at this commercial today you're like oh

53:11

it's just a funny little quip you got to remember when this was done funny little

53:16

quip commercials weren't popular they weren't the norm now everyone and their

53:20

mother just has funny dude dancing we're bird on the shoulder we're having a good

53:24

old time hey man that's so normal that now if we saw a grill to play the drums

53:28

we go cool and what did the wouldn't even garner alike back in the day when

53:33

advertising was at when this came out it was very much more specific especially

53:37

in the UK in here was more like Bunnings ads here's what we got here's what we're

53:41

gonna do so when this comes out boom I've already got your attention it's a

53:44

prediction break it's really cool to they you they use their branding at the

53:47

front end in the back end so you immediately know where we were coming in

53:50

we knew where we were going out and the purple behind it only exists to one

53:54

brand it's Cadbury so you you you never forgot

53:57

what it was you were watching three they did the classic memory hijack we all

54:04

loved the Phil Collins song I don't know that there's a human being alive who

54:07

doesn't air drum that solo so they know you've got a deep memory for this thing

54:12

all they've got to do is weasel their way in and build an association close

54:16

enough to that drum solo that every time you hear from now on you're gonna think

54:20

of that damn gorilla at any time you think of that damn gorilla you're gonna

54:23

think of that damn Cadbury Urd if they don't need to build a deep memory for

54:27

you they picked a memory they know you got and they weasel their way in and

54:31

they just plump themselves next to it and now just like a spider web whenever

54:35

you access phil collins and it starts to spread out and activate all the

54:39

associations in this comes so it was it was a timely spot on smart move

54:45

that I think actually changed a lot of advertising after this I think that's

54:49

the kind of thing that leads to a lot of the silliness we see now is oh it worked

54:53

so well here it must work now when we do it over here but the fundamental thing a

54:57

lot of brands are missing now is they they don't have that memory hijack

55:01

they're literally just doing silliness to get attention rather than associating

55:05

to either anything that you can leverage so you know Phil Collins's consistently

55:09

comes up in the top 100 of all-time songs you know yeah the the association

55:14

with it is phenomenal and you literally go through it and for me the real gold

55:19

was actually in the execution because this could have gone horribly

55:22

wrong as well but the guerilla itself looks like a drama the guerrilla you

55:31

musician astray system musicians looks like a drummer how dare you it not only

55:37

looked like but it had the emotion he could feel the emotion and the and it

55:41

matched the emotion of the song do you know didn't know they did a very good

55:45

reveal you didn't know what the hell they were doing for the first 10 minutes

55:48

or 10 seconds like okay that was kind of the ultimate wasn't just the guerrilla

55:52

there we just like what is it doing what's happening it built the suspense

55:56

do you know what I mean you just like what is it I know the song that's very

56:00

familiar but what I'm seeing now is very unfamiliar what's going so got attention

56:05

it's holding attention and it held attention for quite a period of time

56:08

yeah yeah and then all of a sudden it breaks out into that drum solo that

56:11

everyone knows but at the execution of the drum solo and as interesting hard to

56:16

dig into it to find out about the character which was actually a primate

56:21

that's actually his job is a primate imitator but he's also a musician and he

56:26

spent three days just practicing how to lose a guitarist by trade yeah so he

56:33

actually had to learn how to play the drums and spent three days learning how

56:36

to play the drums precisely to imitate what a drummer would actually do but

56:40

then also bring the primate characteristics to the whole so for me

56:44

it was it was that's that was kind of the beauty of the idea was there but the

56:49

execution was so seamless that you actually formed this real bond and you

56:54

just fell in love with the gorilla as well because you like he's a boss and

56:58

then I like it he's cool he's cool and he's emotional if it was just a dude in

57:02

a suit with no emotions but they and the first couple bits you're like okay he's

57:07

gonna sing the song no he's not singing I was just feeling it Oh everything

57:11

about it your spy you know who it just makes me think of triple

57:14

a couple months ago started their giraffe singing in a mirror campaign

57:19

which is apparently the same thing as this except a they don't put triple m

57:22

until the very end in which case you're usually already turned out B there's no

57:26

memorable music so I couldn't tell you and C don't gorillas cooled it's gonna

57:34

sound weird you want to go have a drink with that gorilla like you want to be

57:37

like man that gorilla is cool like I want to go smoke a doobie is that so use

57:42

now but that gorilla the giraffe is just goddamn silly it's like if that was my

57:48

kid I'd be like go do your homework get out of the room you're annoying me so

57:52

it's like I could see almost the exact same commercial done well versus done

57:56

it's fascinating as my wife especially we like the TV's kind of honest

58:01

background noise and she that's all the rest for a bit

58:03

and one of the ads that she she'd loved over the last couple of months which

58:06

isn't many was the drow fat but you ask her who's it actually for she's like

58:11

I've got no idea and like what was song was it she's like I don't know but I

58:14

just loved the dirt like the draft was kind of all over the plants around so

58:17

the memory for her was she remembered the giraffe dancing do you know what I

58:22

mean to the tune but no recollection of the

58:25

brand or funnily enough the song you know you've hit it when somebody says

58:29

the blank blank the brand and then the thing the Cadbury gorilla the gecko the

58:37

Geico gecko you know you've nailed it but that's way

58:40

you know the associations and if you don't have the associations and that's

58:43

for me the execution of Cadbury was phenomenal because you got purple

58:46

throughout the entire execution it's not reliant on and that was a minute and a

58:51

half out so 90 seconds they actually did the full four and a half minute at the

58:54

song or the full track so you can get the full track but for commercial

58:59

purposes that went live with a 90 second version yeah but throughout it was

59:03

Cadbury purple Capri purple capra purple capra purple so to route something

59:07

you've always got these opportunities to associate the song with Cadbury and the

59:11

gorilla and then it reinforces right at the end with the brand

59:14

whereas you see so many ads that will tell this beautiful narrative in this

59:18

beautiful story it'll pull you in emotionally and it's got your attention

59:21

and it holds it for 60 seconds and then it goes blank screen and then a hero

59:27

shot door brand and as soon as we say blank

59:31

screen or transition we go end of memory new story new chapter and then always

59:37

have that so there's no association to the brand to the actual you know the

59:41

product itself you actually stop your memory it's interesting to think though

59:45

would this have been possible with a brand that didn't already have 50 years

59:50

of an established identity was this possible because we like the golden

59:55

arches the yellow and gold the purple there we have enough of a memory of a

59:59

brand and the brand has been on point for so many years decades that they can

60:04

actually get away with just having a color and we automatically start doing

60:08

the Association because I never see that color anywhere else so you might have to

60:11

for this kind of commercial to succeed weird so take triple m there's no color

60:15

scheme I know of I guess there's flames and the M's maybe but they don't have

60:18

enough it's not that distinctive though you can't just look at that and you just

60:21

go that's a hundred percent triple and like it's actually the logo that you say

60:25

yeah so what if they had so maybe you've got to earn the right to be silly

60:30

and still make a memory you've got to do the legwork which is five years of just

60:35

establishing brand brand brand brand brand brand brand colors logos this

60:38

before you've got the right supply in the now go do something silly and you've

60:43

got enough of a memory that people can trigger that you've just got that one

60:46

cue boom I've seen the purple this is Cadbury now what are you gonna do for me

60:50

I see the the gecko now is maybe they did that enough that you see the gecko

60:56

you immediately go Geico do you have to establish an identity already some

61:00

trigger or else do you just have to start with it hi this is true this is

61:06

gonna be horrible but hi this is Triple M here's a commercial for you about a

61:10

singing giraffe like do you have to all you have a tattoo on the giraffe or

61:14

something like that this makes it part of the action but and that's to me like

61:19

when you're looking at a creative you've got to have where the memory actually

61:22

encodes you want your brand associated to it or you can that is associated to

61:28

and that's where the korilla so you go what' you go phil collins to gorilla to

61:34

Cadbury purple and cap rebrand that is how it flows

61:39

whereas if you go remember the crazy draught

61:43

there's no connect to anything else do you know I can't even recall the song

61:47

let alone the song to which is a rock song to a triple n which is a rock radio

61:53

station yeah you know so that's where the disconnect actually happened so for

61:56

me it's an interesting point that you've got to have a branded asset that's

61:59

distinctive enough that you can actually pair with it so if you look at Geico

62:03

gecko or you know the me cats from compare the market you've got to invest

62:07

in these assets so much you know so building a new memory takes a huge

62:11

amount of effort and work to actually establish it yeah yeah and then you got

62:15

to remind and refresh consistently so this is where brands are they're

62:18

continually changing their long term branded assets they're continually

62:22

having to start from scratch and rebuild rather than reinvesting in the memories

62:27

that people already have and you know you can earn that I think I think

62:30

McDonald's can change its theme song but they don't that's the joke the brands

62:35

who have earned the right to change every chop and change every two weeks

62:38

because we've already got 50 years of deep memory for them typically still

62:43

don't they still play the game where it's like we're gonna use one logo one

62:46

brand for two years and then we're gonna get we're gonna use data for years even

62:52

though we don't have to just because we're still playing the game or we're

62:56

gonna build a really stupidly deep memory for you totally did it well kind

63:01

of sidetrack was coals with the down down song yeah

63:05

is I remember it came out it was annoying everyone did it but they kept

63:08

doing it for about two years and recently maybe about a year ago they

63:11

changed and it really kind of irked me it was like okay you took the time to

63:16

build this now use it now I mean I'm in ok you got you down down song don't

63:22

don't go do a different version of it now don't go to someone else keep being

63:26

annoying keep being silly because every time I hear it every time I go into your

63:29

story singing that you've built a memory Network use it but then they switch to

63:33

something else recently and I'm like oh I missed my downtown song cuddly but

63:36

this is like to remind and refresh is the game and you know they've had that

63:41

the purple just so strong that that's where you can pull and tie everything

63:44

else together that was kind of the anchor to the brand without that it

63:48

wouldn't have been anywhere near successful but that's all I think when I

63:50

think about the gorilla I think about purple

63:52

yeah and then I go to Cadbury so without that purple background

63:55

well that's kana you flow then isn't it you've got fuel Collins to gorilla to

63:59

purple to Cadbury and it's an easy chain it's a daisy chain man I've got giraffe

64:06

that's it head you remember driving down the UM

64:11

secondary side driving down the m2 from the airport into the city yeah they had

64:17

the ad with the giraffe singing in a so it was a billboard the draft singing in

64:22

the mirror with the Triple Aim I guess logo on the side took me three trips

64:28

till I could decipher what that was it was the weirdest Joe how sometimes you

64:32

look at something and you can't you just can't make heads or tails of it because

64:36

you don't have a prediction to put it in psyche what am I actually looking at

64:39

here I couldn't tell that it was a draft looking in a mirror till the third time

64:42

and I you felt you feel this moment so I can tell you exactly what's going on

64:46

it's the difference between what's called your predictor and your coder and

64:49

usually you have a very solid prediction for how things work so you can just run

64:53

your prediction cool but every once in a while you'll see something that fits no

64:56

prediction and you can feel your gears going what the hell is this took me

65:01

three times of looking at ad to even determine what the hell I was looking at

65:05

it was the weirdest and I paid a lot of attention I couldn't pick out the fact

65:10

that it was a giraffe looking at a mirror it was just colors and angles I'm

65:14

like what it looked like a magic item he was like what am I looking at and then

65:18

the third time I saw it like oh god what the hell is that it was the way I just

65:23

thought I don't know if it was because the colors were all the same or it was

65:26

just so unexpected I hated it it caused me to look at it a lot it's a great

65:30

point because then you know Psalm crannies will actually go that's an

65:33

amazing thing because I got attention I got someone to think about it do you

65:37

know what I mean which then caused them to I'm talking about it I'm talking

65:40

about it you remember it and you remember the journey so they go you know

65:44

big tick we're winning yeah do you know but then you just go what percentage of

65:48

the population would actually invest the time and energy and effort to trying to

65:52

decipher it exactly whereas majority people would just go too hard don't get

65:57

it yeah doesn't even hit any of my unconscious let alone you know your

66:01

prefrontal cortex or anything like that so for me it's just it's literally it's

66:06

like it never happened so I think this is a debate a lot of

66:09

creatives actually have with creating something that you need to use some of

66:13

your processing power to think about and understand versus something that's so

66:18

simple and I always go back to the two tenets you know which is attention and

66:22

simple if you break either of those rules chances are you're dead you're

66:27

gonna get an interesting percentage of the market share the point 1% like me

66:30

who just go gotta figure this out and you're 99.9% of the people say I got

66:35

other stuff to do it correct so it's definitely not a mess but it's it's

66:38

usually interesting enough it's usually people here in the industry which are

66:41

advertising and marketing people that will talk about it and discuss it so

66:45

with legions in our own lunch boxes you know and that's why creatives love it

66:48

because it's that's in their market and everyone's talking about it whereas the

66:52

reality is from a commercial perspective what impact did that have on revenue did

66:57

that acquire new customers to your brand or business you know is that gonna help

67:01

you you know move your brand or business forward for me that's the ultimate

67:05

metric of success of any advertisement market it was funny growing up we used

67:08

to say would you rather be famous or respected in your field famous respect

67:13

in your field famous service and we usually come back to I want to be

67:16

respected in my field I want other people to know to do what I do to like

67:20

what I do but the older I get the more and that's

67:22

always a selection you pick the older I get the more I'm like I don't it's a

67:27

circle jerk I don't care what the other people in my profession think that I do

67:31

I want to be effective my third or I don't care about famous I don't care

67:34

about being respected in my field I want to be effective outside of my field

67:38

correct and that's where I think a lot of people get stuck in the well my field

67:41

likes me okay but then that becomes a game of ego

67:45

do you know in terms of like wow I got to go back to Hungry Jack's Burger King

67:49

I've got a piece of work out that everyone's talked about do you know what

67:52

I mean aren't I sort of famous in my particular field or everyone respects me

67:57

versus how effective I'd rather go and just go I have 10x this brand over 18

68:02

months through my strategy and everyone just goes I don't remember the strategy

68:05

at all I go I don't care look at the revenue and that's what I I can't go to

68:10

science science is nothing but a global circle jerk

68:13

most scientists want respect and citations from other

68:17

and you're actually ostracized when you step out of there and say but what

68:20

impact are we having on the real world and I've heard I mean I came up through

68:24

science and so I get it is I want to be respected in my field I want everyone

68:27

who does brain stimulation to think about me and say man that guy does good

68:31

work why that is a took me years to figure

68:34

out but that's literally a group of 200 people who do nothing but talk to each

68:38

other are we healing people no are we changing

68:40

the world no are we impacting education no so what do I do I realize screw it

68:45

third option let's go make an actual impact now I go out there I'll work with

68:49

a thousand T I'll impact a thousand teachers in a year versus zero and I

68:54

actually get [ __ ] on by my crew besides people like oh you're you're popular

68:59

you're out there in the world doing pseudoscience it's like no no no no I'm

69:02

actually creating the science I'm just not looking for your validation anymore

69:07

I'm already and so when we all die it's more important to have that impact what

69:12

is the goal for this if your goal is ego sweet you're doing your thing but if

69:15

your goal is to better the world to impact how people think and work then

69:20

that's gotta be your figure out but isn't that legacy like you're talking

69:23

the bigger the change you have to multiple that is legacy

69:27

it's the switch from the Warriors journey to the Kings journey so take all

69:30

your narratives take all your stories your archetypes most people in their 20s

69:33

and 30s sit in the war in the warrior narrative walking through the hero's

69:38

journey I need to discover who I am I need to establish my identity I need to

69:43

show that I can take on the world with my resources

69:45

that's an awesome narrative as you start to get older you necessarily switch into

69:50

the Kings narrative which is okay who cares about me I enough now I got an

69:54

outward look and I've got a disestablish a legacy what impact am I having on the

69:58

wider world how is this going to change based on the actions I do and that's

70:03

where I think most of the ego based stuff I used to do was exactly what I

70:07

needed to do was I want respect from people in my field why because that's me

70:11

establishing my identity I don't care I'm gonna die now now my thing is what

70:17

is my legacy what an interesting point cuz now you go into business commerce

70:23

brand marketing advertising if you come with ego I want to create something that

70:29

I can be proud of but I can show my peers and I get

70:32

validation from it's serving me yeah whereas if you go how do I solve more

70:38

people's problems how can I be more effective on mass I don't care about

70:44

what the perception is I just want the outcome that is the ultimate service

70:49

because you help all people so for a brand to come from of service rather

70:54

than ego yeah that is where you win you know especially not only from impact but

71:01

where it counts from a business perspective which is you know the P&L

71:06

talk to Kings archetype maybe that becomes our new thing the Kings

71:09

archetype is that's that's a this how am I of service because it's the weirdest

71:14

thing you realize you're gonna die and no offense no one's gonna remember us in

71:19

a hundred years so you've really got two massive choices

71:22

I mean think about how many people how many people can you name from the 1800s

71:27

all up and this is where you're like that's an entire century and I'm pulling

71:35

out maybe 20 names ego and personal identity don't last

71:40

legacy last I can then tell you what's changed because of what has happened in

71:45

the 1800's but if you look at it and I would suggest that every individual that

71:49

you name yeah will have come from a place of service rather than a place of

71:55

ego because the changes they wrought so we won't know about them I can't tell

72:00

you when they were born I can't tell you what they liked what they ate but I can

72:04

tell you what impact they had on son wasn't there for his own good he was

72:07

there trying to serve you literally pick any you know Isaac Newton wasn't there

72:12

for himself it was there too sir this could become a little segment on

72:17

the show called the warrior versus the King and we could find ads like the sir

72:22

King one which which says here's a warrior here's AD people

72:26

creatives trying to impress each other how fascinating because if you tie that

72:31

back from a warrior because it's all about us look what we've done no

72:34

preservatives big ball got a lot of name rather than King in terms of how do you

72:40

educate consumers this is what preservatives do

72:44

you know if you're after the best vehicle for yourself health and

72:48

nutrition angle yeah you know what I mean that is serving people and you're

72:52

creating product that now service people or serves people rather than do you know

72:58

and I think that's where the narrative has actually been me so it's interesting

73:02

looking at and how good would that have been now go back to that original point

73:05

you have a series of commercials which is take all the ingredients of a burger

73:09

bread meat tomato lettuce and the commercial is one tomato just sitting

73:14

there for 30 days one tomato rotting for 30 days with farmers or nutritionist or

73:20

someone in the corner saying oh my god I can't believe that one's not changing

73:23

look that's disgusting you want mold you want if it doesn't you have mold even

73:29

the natural world won't eat it why would we put that in our body you don't even

73:33

show your bird you're educating to the point where now

73:36

you hit your burger put all those ingredients together show this you've

73:39

Prime me you've taught me you've given me something to really work with and now

73:44

you reverse the camera and all of a sudden I'm I'm on with you you go cool

73:47

nice little ad campaign there and I'll take it one step further

73:51

you've got hungry Jack's current customer base you know that have been

73:56

eating preservatives they're pivoting to no preservatives do the customer base

74:01

actually know what preservatives do to the human body or not so that's one

74:06

sounds like there should be good Oh preservatives I'm gonna live longer yes

74:11

and then you got you know or are they trying to talk to a completely different

74:15

sort of more educated market that know what preservatives are and the impact

74:18

they have but then there's no point comparing your brand to McDonald's

74:22

because they're never going to go to McDonald's anyway but they may now go to

74:24

you so for me if you had the King's journey bring your people with you

74:30

educate them so they'll never go to McDonald's again yeah and then talk to a

74:35

new audience or a new Kingdom and help bring them into your broader Kingdom as

74:40

well and as a result your land mass or your territory is [ __ ] right and when

74:45

you come from a place of service rather than a place of ego that is that's gonna

74:51

be our new segment we're gonna find one ad that is from Kings Journey Kings

74:57

you're in the one it's purely self-serving warriors and we

75:00

just show them side-by-side and say maybe we start to suss out the

75:03

differences and say hey do you notice which is which clearly one is just done

75:08

for sake of cool building and identity and one is done for nice of service oh

75:13

wow that's wonderful dr. Jared thank you for coming in no thank you that another

75:17

good on another great session now the great session episode two looking

75:20

forward to episode three there's some really interesting stuff happening in a

75:23

moment but um thanks dr. Jared until next time err what should we look at our

75:27

camera

75:49

you