Mosh | World Vision vs Save The Children | Wrigley's 5 Gum
On today's show, we begin with a new release from Mosh—tackling men's health issues in a humorous way. In Compare the Pair we have two well-known charities facing off with Save The Children vs World Vision. Our Classic Creative this week will stimulate your senses with a Wrigley's classic—"How it feels to chew 5 gum".
***
The Science of Advertising Show
Welcome to The Science of Advertising Show. The show where Jonathan Rolley and Dr. Jared Cooney Horvath review the latest ads and the science behind why they influence and persuade human behaviour.
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***
If you want to know how we can help you with your advertising, contact Direct Response Media at https://www.directresponsemedia.com.au/
Mosh | World Vision vs Save The Children | Wrigley's 5 Gum
On today's show, we begin with a new release from Mosh—tackling men's health issues in a humorous way. In Compare the Pair we have two well-known charities facing off with Save The Children vs World Vision. Our Classic Creative this week will stimulate your senses with a Wrigley's classic—"How it feels to chew 5 gum".
***
The Science of Advertising Show
Welcome to The Science of Advertising Show. The show where Jonathan Rolley and Dr. Jared Cooney Horvath review the latest ads and the science behind why they influence and persuade human behaviour.
Subscribe to our channels and give us a follow on LinkedIn - we would love to connect!
YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCH8KTFIhiPqSXv4oHlkqiHA
Spotify: https://open.spotify.com/show/75Mm0VlUpgZl3w6YyT1bwcsi=_7_vknwBSKWZX_UrufjMFQ
Apple: https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/the-science-of-advertising-show/id1526254296?uo=4
Google: https://podcasts.google.com/feed/aHR0cHM6Ly9mZWVkcy5idXp6c3Byb3V0LmNvbS8xMjU2ODUyLnJzcw==
https://www.linkedin.com/in/jonathanrolley/
https://www.linkedin.com/in/jared-cooney-horvath-phd-med-730704b2/
***
If you want to know how we can help you with your advertising, contact Direct Response Media at https://www.directresponsemedia.com.au/
00:00
welcome to episode 9 of the science of
00:02
advertising show the show where we
00:04
disclose the advertising secrets that
00:06
brands use to influence and persuade
00:08
human behavior on today's show we have
00:10
dr
00:10
jared cooney horvath the pre-eminent
00:12
expert of his field of educational
00:14
neuroscience with a focus on memory
00:16
formation learning and attention and
00:17
your host
00:18
jonathan rowley
00:19
[Music]
00:28
welcome dr jay oh thank you
00:32
number nine we're almost to double
00:33
digits this is going crazy
00:35
it is oh bring it on and welcome to the
00:38
covert here as well it is impressive
00:40
still not getting better i saw i was i
00:42
had to drive to the store yesterday and
00:43
i saw a sign that said haircuts
00:45
and i thought oh sweet like black market
00:47
haircuts no
00:48
they're they're still clothes then it
00:49
said covert clothes so nothing
00:52
got like my hopes up for a moment there
00:53
just pulled out the kitchen scissors and
00:55
had
00:55
a red hot crack at that i'm thinking
00:58
about it but i'm too scared i'll just
00:59
let it keep going it kind of looks like
01:01
kevin costner from uh
01:02
dances with wolves okay that's one way
01:04
to look at it but uh
01:06
mate we've got a big show today and
01:09
i think there's a bit of a theme that
01:10
may emerge
01:12
first up we have a new creative that's
01:15
straight and it's a relatively new brand
01:17
as well and it's from a men's health
01:20
brand called
01:20
mosh so i'm really keen to get your
01:23
thoughts on this one because it's an
01:24
interesting piece of content
01:26
so here's the 30 second creative from
01:29
mosh
01:31
come on guys it's time to lift you're
01:33
just not performing like you used to
01:36
i mean where have you been lately not
01:38
here
01:45
at mosh we're all about men's health
01:46
made easy chat to aussie doctors to
01:49
treat sexual health
01:50
hair loss skin care and mental health
01:52
it's all online
01:53
discreet and affordable and the
01:55
treatments get delivered to your door
01:56
right doc that's right head to
01:58
getmosh.com today you
02:01
the latest from mosh there we have it dr
02:05
j
02:05
do you want to take it am i going to
02:06
have it where are we going to go
02:08
let me just i'll let me let me kick this
02:10
one off here for you so it's funny
02:12
because last week we were talking about
02:14
um a weird ad where you could have split
02:16
the beginning in the end completely
02:18
there was like a running joke it was the
02:19
one where they were pumping gas
02:21
and he tried to land it right on the 20.
02:23
since mark what was it um
02:26
[ __ ] twenty dollar was yeah
02:28
heimlings.com.homeowners.com
02:30
so you're in kind of a similar boat here
02:32
where you've got a joke at the beginning
02:35
and then you've got the product at the
02:37
end
02:38
but where this separates itself from
02:40
that last week's one is the joke
02:42
is directly relevant to the product in
02:44
this case the it's not just
02:45
a random joke and now hey home loans.com
02:48
the joke is about penises and the
02:52
product is about
02:53
penises in addition to other things so
02:55
actually this was an example of using
02:57
how you can split an ad into two
03:00
so long as that front end a is attention
03:03
grabbing and in this case if you're
03:04
trying to get
03:05
guys to think about their junk and their
03:08
health you probably comedy's not a bad
03:10
way to go in
03:11
but you take that comedy and that leads
03:13
directly into what your product is going
03:15
to be and say
03:16
so i actually think compared to last
03:18
week's version of this
03:20
i think they they handled that joke into
03:22
reality transition much smoother
03:25
yeah look i i totally agree i think
03:27
they've done a brilliant job i really
03:28
like this creative again
03:30
the first eight nine seconds is the joke
03:33
the reason i like this this style
03:36
is several reasons one it's locker room
03:38
so it immediately screams
03:40
guys you know that's the sporting
03:43
mindset as well
03:44
and mind you most of the tv or a lot of
03:46
tv and the big audience from tv comes
03:48
from sporting type of programs
03:50
so it will also slot quite nicely in
03:52
terms of their media strategy
03:53
but slight humor you know blow up
03:56
penises
03:57
you know going a little bit soft gets
03:59
your attention regardless
04:00
but then it's a nice segue and i really
04:03
like the segway
04:04
but the the thing i really love about
04:07
this ad where it works
04:08
you've got my attention you've you've
04:10
got me then what are you going to do
04:12
with it
04:12
you have a trusted advisor as such even
04:15
though he's more like the patient
04:16
but he's a young vibrant male that you
04:18
can associate with
04:20
but then they transition to the doctor
04:23
as well
04:24
and he presents sharpest attack and this
04:26
goes back to getting the right talent
04:28
is crucial to the setup like the
04:31
doctor's warm he's friendly he's also
04:33
demonstrating the service
04:35
which is a video call so you've kind of
04:37
got this sequence of events that
04:39
that are that tells the story as it
04:41
needs to be told
04:43
this particular strategy is a very
04:45
traditional
04:46
direct response style ad so what do you
04:49
mean go go deeper
04:51
so direct response that is the structure
04:54
really starts with a grabber
04:56
you've got to get attention a grabber
04:58
usually
04:59
could be three to four seconds because
05:01
literally 80 cents in the dollar is
05:02
spent
05:03
in the first three to five seconds
05:05
because if you don't have a tension
05:06
there
05:07
the rest of the admin is it doesn't mean
05:10
anything or
05:11
you can't do anything with it because
05:12
you don't have attention then you go
05:14
through
05:15
paying pleasure or problem solution so
05:18
in this particular one it was
05:19
problems in the bedroom was actually the
05:21
problem they highlighted
05:23
or a flaccid penis such so
05:26
that's that's the pain or the problem so
05:28
if you correlated with that
05:30
which dr j i'm sure you have no issues
05:32
there so oh
05:33
never know i know though having huge
05:36
problems
05:38
so if that was you that'll talk to you
05:40
so you're a male
05:41
it's talking to you in the locker room
05:43
it's taking you down the story of
05:45
i've got a problem here then you've got
05:47
an individual talking you through
05:49
their journey and the solution that is
05:51
which is going online and talk to
05:52
someone to get some help
05:54
so like it is rather pain pleasure
05:56
problem solution
05:58
and then you've got a call to action on
05:59
the end of it so a harder hitting
06:02
direct response ad would actually have
06:03
an offer a call to action
06:06
a discount code or something like that
06:08
this call to action was just a website
06:10
which for me is more than enough if
06:12
you've got a problem
06:13
i'm seeking out information and i think
06:15
you're right they did with the
06:17
trusted advisor the guy they picked was
06:19
perfect because
06:20
it's a tricky topic but this guy came
06:22
with energy with
06:23
zest normal dude like the kind of guy
06:25
you didn't feel intimidated by him he
06:26
didn't feel embarrassed by him just a
06:28
dude talking you're kind of like yeah
06:29
all right i'm with you
06:31
dr good and what i what i like about it
06:33
and i was thinking they may have
06:35
missed an element here but in actuality
06:38
they've built themselves an element was
06:41
right now they've got the penis joke but
06:43
when they're
06:44
explaining their website they say we can
06:46
do sexual problems
06:48
we do health problems we do hair
06:49
problems we do
06:51
skin problems anything with guys now
06:54
what they've just done is they've opened
06:55
themselves up to
06:57
any number of opening jokes that can
06:59
then lead into that same kind of outro
07:02
so they've hit the penis but they've got
07:04
10 other things they can do
07:05
next time it's going to be some bald
07:07
dude and they're going to have a joke
07:08
about that
07:08
going back into this so they found a way
07:10
that even though it's just about men's
07:12
health
07:12
they've actually piecemealed it in a way
07:14
that now they can keep hitting one
07:16
message per ad don't overwhelm me with
07:19
with ideas and
07:20
evidence but then bring in the ad and
07:22
understand what the business what the
07:23
company's going to do at the end so i
07:25
at first i'm like oh men are only going
07:27
to think this is about sex
07:28
but the more i watch it the more i
07:30
realize know the way they had set up
07:31
that structure
07:32
they can make a dozen of these ads about
07:33
a dozen different things
07:35
and they're still yeah look look i'm
07:37
really excited for this brand i think
07:38
this brand has a huge
07:40
huge potential i think it's only just
07:42
warming up so it's definitely one to
07:43
watch
07:44
and it'll be interesting to see how they
07:46
they evolve their creative moving
07:47
forward because i don't know they do a
07:48
lot with hair
07:49
product and sponsoring talent on uh
07:51
footy style programming
07:53
and they endorse it openly on as content
07:56
as well so is that math
07:57
care products yeah yeah it's the same
07:59
brand oh i didn't know
08:00
that well that's interesting as hell so
08:02
i like that they're differentiating but
08:04
it's it's funny we always kind of come
08:05
to this point where
08:06
after you see a good ad we always say i
08:08
can't wait to see what they do
08:10
next because if and i think there's a
08:12
good point to be made in there that
08:14
a good ad is a good ad that opens the
08:16
door
08:17
for you to go further but that's not
08:19
where anything ends you've now got to
08:21
draw that bow that line it's like making
08:23
a really good film now you can make a
08:25
franchise
08:26
but if film two in your franchise sucks
08:28
or if you totally change gears and now
08:29
the characters are different
08:30
you've totally lost that momentum from
08:32
that first piece yeah
08:34
there's probably some branding elements
08:36
that could have been strengthened in it
08:37
but for me it was a direct response ad
08:38
they're just trying to drive traffic
08:40
traffic and acquire new customers so for
08:42
me it ticks all the boxes like really
08:44
good ad
08:44
yeah super excited to see where they're
08:46
going but if we're looking at now
08:48
changing gears in a very different
08:50
direction
08:51
we've got compare the pair boom and on
08:54
today's lineup
08:56
we've got a big focus on charities i
08:58
actually love this compared to the pair
09:00
this is really good
09:01
yeah so we've got charities so the two
09:03
charities we've got world vision we've
09:05
got save the children two of the larger
09:06
not-for-profits globally
09:08
in charities we know they play such an
09:10
important role
09:11
in raising funds for people that are in
09:13
desperate need so let's look at the two
09:15
creators we've got
09:17
so the first world vision and then we'll
09:19
cut to
09:20
save the children and we'll discuss
09:22
what's good what's bad and we'll also
09:24
have our cast out vote all right over to
09:27
you jake
09:27
world vision save the children here we
09:34
go
09:39
imagine for a second you saw a child who
09:41
is vulnerable well
09:42
half of the world's children face
09:43
violence that's unimaginable they're
09:45
frightened
09:46
exploited and hurt it's unacceptable
09:49
we can help stop this now and make a
09:51
child's hope
09:52
achievable for every child you help four
09:55
more are made
09:56
capable if you believe all children are
09:58
educatable
09:59
defendable and incredible help end
10:01
violence against vulnerable children
10:03
if you are willing they're able sponsor
10:06
a child
10:07
today this is a report from save the
10:11
children
10:13
these scenes at chiamala hospital in
10:15
central africa
10:16
may look like an emergency but we see
10:19
this throughout the world
10:20
every single day
10:22
[Music]
10:25
among the new arrivals we found cayenne
10:30
bay
10:33
so frail he can no longer stand kayembe
10:36
is almost
10:36
two years old but his weight is less
10:39
than half that of a healthy child his
10:43
agent
10:44
of the malnutrition needs food
10:48
and he needs medicine urgently
10:51
these are the basic things that you can
10:53
help us provide
10:54
by calling the number on your screen now
10:57
and giving just two pounds a month
11:00
save the children know what it takes to
11:02
save a child's life
11:03
but we need your help because tomorrow
11:07
we'll see more children arrive and the
11:10
next day
11:11
i see how far i
11:18
[Applause]
11:21
please pick up the phone now and call
11:24
0800
11:25
035 6330 or visit our website
11:28
and give your two pounds a month for a
11:32
child as critically ill as cayenne bae
11:34
a single phone call can make the
11:37
difference
11:41
there we have it two ads from world
11:43
vision save the children so they're a
11:45
little bit old now but
11:46
uh for me i just think it's such a great
11:49
topic to talk about
11:50
it's it's a space that i've played very
11:52
heavily in
11:53
know it well and the conversation i'd
11:55
really like to have is not only the ad
11:57
that we think
11:58
is going to have the best performance or
12:00
the ad that we know has the best
12:01
performance
12:02
i want to dig in and i want to get neuro
12:06
i want to go there okay okay what do you
12:09
kick out so i think what a good
12:11
thing to point out is and i think the
12:12
audience got this
12:14
the big difference is they're go they're
12:16
shooting for the same exact target
12:17
it's just one of them has gone with a
12:19
positive message here's the change you
12:21
can make and what it will look like
12:23
the other has gone with the in your face
12:25
message here's how
12:27
bad it is right now here's what's going
12:29
on and that's why we need you
12:31
so why don't you you you start off with
12:33
your understanding of
12:35
those two themes with this kind of ad
12:38
and how they typically work
12:39
those themes are important because if
12:41
you're looking not for profits
12:42
they have moved in the direction of a
12:45
positive feel-good ad
12:47
for two reasons it's a where they want
12:49
to go from a brand
12:50
style perspective there's also some
12:52
legislation
12:53
there's some policy around it as well
12:55
that they can't actually
12:57
leverage some of the hard hitting
12:59
imagery they they once could
13:01
more so in australia not so much
13:03
globally but in australia there's
13:05
definitely some
13:06
some policy around that but for me when
13:08
you're looking
13:09
at this then i'm looking to raise funds
13:13
how do i do it
13:17
from when when i look at this it's
13:19
really obvious
13:21
this is all about emotion this is about
13:23
allowing the audience to
13:25
feel what is going on and to resonate
13:28
with it
13:29
i want them to feel pain yeah
13:32
what's the number one way a viewer is
13:35
going to feel pain
13:37
if i'm looking not for profit is a child
13:39
in distress
13:40
a child that is in a situation that they
13:43
should not be
13:44
in for me i'm like oh that is horrible
13:48
that should not be happening i am now
13:50
charged up i want to do something
13:52
i want to have an impact that was safe
13:56
with the children yeah you resonate with
13:58
the calls
13:59
and they flip so the structure for this
14:01
ad is pain pleasure
14:03
pain pleasure so they show you problem
14:06
solution problem solution
14:07
so the problem is very graphic it's very
14:10
visual they use all the sensors
14:12
there's visual the music goes along with
14:14
it to tell the story
14:16
the voice over is very important to
14:18
allow you to feel it
14:20
and sit in it and it takes you on the
14:22
journey then it takes you to
14:24
a positive this is what happens when we
14:26
do the right or you support us
14:28
back to pain let's get you back there
14:30
let's get the cortisol pumping around
14:33
let you feel it let you feel the stress
14:35
and the tension then we'll take you to
14:37
pleasure again
14:38
but if you want pleasure the real
14:39
pleasure is supporting this cause and
14:41
supporting the kids
14:42
on the flip side if you look at world
14:44
vision
14:46
they have some imagery in there that
14:48
could be a little bit painful
14:50
but the music all the way along is this
14:52
happy track
14:54
you know and it just does not correlate
14:56
and it does not allow
14:57
the viewer to feel the pain so there's
15:00
no pain there's no leverage
15:02
no leverage meaning there's less action
15:04
so if you're looking at direct response
15:06
as such
15:07
you want more people to take action not
15:10
less
15:11
which means i want more people to feel
15:14
and then they can take action
15:15
the solution also needs to be simple so
15:17
the solution is just
15:19
10 a month a really simple solution
15:22
it's something within everyone's realms
15:24
they contribute
15:25
and i really like your quote it's
15:27
actually out of your book
15:30
so if you're looking at tv contextually
15:33
tv predominantly is a relatively happy
15:35
place do you know apart from the news
15:37
especially with what's going on now
15:39
but in a sea of sadness joy stands out
15:43
being in a sea of joy sadness wins
15:47
boom so it's the shift it's the
15:50
uncertainty the unexpected
15:52
that gets you to you so let's let's
15:54
break this down now
15:56
neurologically what's going on inside
15:58
the brain so i i guess you've got kind
16:00
of
16:00
several mechanisms here the big ones the
16:02
primary one is going to be
16:04
your empathetic resonance mechanism so
16:06
you've probably heard of this concept of
16:08
mirror neurons this idea that whenever
16:11
you watch
16:11
an action a behavior happening you start
16:14
to imitate that in your own mind as
16:16
though you're doing it
16:17
now if you've ever heard of the term
16:18
mirror neurons throw that out of your
16:20
lexicon there is no such thing
16:22
as a mirror neuron um that was just a
16:24
theory we were playing with
16:25
in actuality it's just that we cannot
16:27
stop ourselves from imitating other
16:29
people when i move my hand like this
16:31
if i could take a picture of your brain
16:33
it would look as though you're moving
16:35
your hand just like this
16:36
that's how we develop empathy now
16:40
hit me with a kid having a good time
16:41
drawing coloring boom i'm going to feel
16:43
that i'm going to look like that i'm
16:44
going to pretend i'm doing it myself i'm
16:46
having a good time
16:48
hit me with a kid who's dying oh my
16:51
goodness
16:52
now i'm gonna try to feel like that but
16:54
it's gonna hurt way
16:55
too much and what's gonna happen is now
16:57
i'm gonna trigger a stress response
16:59
my body because i'm imitating this pain
17:02
is going to start trying to protect
17:05
itself
17:06
and one of the first things that happens
17:07
when you hit that stress response and
17:08
you all felt it when you saw that kid
17:10
in the beginning of that ad with the
17:12
ribs you all felt it guaranteed
17:14
that initial jolt that goes to your body
17:16
that's cortisol flooding through your
17:18
system
17:19
and what happens is in your brain
17:21
cortisol moves straight into the memory
17:23
centers and it says whatever the heck
17:24
just caused this
17:26
form a deep memory for this so there's a
17:27
whole mechanism that goes into it but
17:29
all you need to know is when you have
17:30
that cortisol in a short term
17:32
boom that's something you're going to
17:34
remember longer it's a safety mechanism
17:36
your system is built to say if something
17:38
causes you stress
17:40
remember it so that you don't make that
17:42
same mistake in the future so you can
17:43
avoid it
17:44
later so we've got this kind of dual
17:47
thing where
17:48
show me a kid who's having a good time
17:49
i'm having a good time i've been having
17:51
a good time all night watching my tv
17:53
shows it's probably going to come and
17:54
it's going to go
17:55
see you later show me a kid who's
17:59
about to pass away not only is that
18:01
going to stick out but now i'm going to
18:02
have a real deep memory and it's going
18:03
to be
18:04
real hard for me to get rid of that
18:05
because of that stress response
18:07
so just at the level of memory this kind
18:10
of
18:10
change of pace into pain huge memory
18:14
boost for everyone it's hard to forget
18:15
those things
18:17
the problem is
18:20
people hate stress so what tends to
18:22
happen is
18:23
after we get a stress response we try
18:25
and avoid that stress we try and shut it
18:27
down as quickly as possible
18:28
i'm not kidding there was a an ad just
18:31
like this one
18:32
on tv last night with animals i can only
18:34
get about
18:35
10 seconds into it and i have to turn
18:36
the station i will not keep watching it
18:39
because it feels too uncomfortable for
18:41
me
18:42
so if you're running an ad where you're
18:44
running that stress
18:45
that's your book you do very much run
18:48
the risk of people in the moment saying
18:50
nope nope
18:51
shutting down going away from it if i
18:53
can't deal with this stress
18:54
immediately i might not deal with this
18:56
stress at all and instead i'm just going
18:57
to try my best to avoid
18:59
this stress so i'd be really curious to
19:01
see
19:03
intuitively my thought would be
19:06
that a very painful harsh message to see
19:10
like the save the children one
19:12
is would intuitively be more powerful
19:15
than the vision australia what was the
19:16
other world vision
19:18
at the front end but if you actually saw
19:21
the returns
19:22
on the medium of tv i'd be really
19:24
curious to see which is doing better
19:26
because i know live if i'm walking down
19:28
the street and you show a
19:30
dead kid to me and you say you can help
19:32
this kid by giving me ten dollars
19:33
i'm gonna give you ten dollars right
19:35
away because that's how i absolve myself
19:37
from the stress and i keep moving
19:39
forward
19:40
on a tv ad i can't get rid of it
19:42
immediately i have to call somebody i
19:43
have to go online i have to do something
19:45
with it
19:45
and if all i'm trying to do is get away
19:46
from it i don't know if that's going to
19:48
lead me down the track to do
19:50
this extra work so live and in person
19:53
works really well on tv i'd be curious
19:56
to see if it works as well as doing that
19:57
kind of painful stress stuff
19:59
in a live situation do you have any data
20:01
or evidence on that john
20:03
this this for not for profits is and
20:05
historically been
20:07
one of the most powerful new client
20:10
acquisition
20:11
or donor acquisition platforms yeah yeah
20:13
direct response tv is phenomenally
20:16
powerful
20:16
but where people get it right it is
20:18
amazing where people get it wrong
20:20
it falls on its face real fast so
20:23
and it's interesting you so your
20:25
response to that ad was to switch off
20:28
yeah i can't i hate it i hate looking at
20:30
that imagine
20:31
thinking imagine that and you'd seen it
20:33
and been exposed to it 10
20:35
15 20 times after three or four times
20:38
you're probably just like oh i've
20:39
switched a few times i'm just going to
20:40
roll through it
20:41
yeah yeah so this is where you say the
20:43
frequency of these ads
20:45
that's what she does tv that's when i
20:48
always see these suckers
20:50
well that's what they are because you've
20:51
got a much higher response rate during
20:53
usually off-peak tv or daytime tv
20:55
so i'd be curious to see you you'd have
20:57
to come with the pleasure if you've got
20:58
the pain you have to come with the
21:00
pleasure otherwise those ads might
21:01
backfire
21:02
harder because think about like the
21:03
global warming when they started coming
21:05
out with all these ads
21:06
that were just pure global warming what
21:08
they found is the more pain they show
21:11
most people don't do anything they need
21:13
a different route because they just
21:15
start to feel overwhelmed like they
21:16
can't do anything so
21:17
as long as you have a call to arms and a
21:19
kind of positive at the end
21:21
so he here it is with with pain he's a
21:23
really interesting one
21:25
the pain has got to be easy to
21:26
understand and digest
21:28
the solution or the pleasure needs to be
21:31
very very simple so this is where
21:34
malnutrition
21:37
is the best performing because i go they
21:40
just need some food or
21:41
so food or water is a very easy solution
21:45
as soon as you start getting into
21:46
complex topics like
21:48
child sex trade or child labor it's like
21:51
oh that is like really uncomfortable to
21:54
watch and understand and see what's
21:55
going on
21:57
the solution is not what's my ten
21:59
dollars really going to do
22:00
can you actually help someone like what
22:01
is that actually really going to do
22:02
whereas food and water and sort of your
22:04
basic needs
22:06
it it changes the game quite a bit so
22:08
that's where you got you got to elicit
22:10
the pain it's got to be simple
22:12
but the solution has to be easy and
22:14
simple as well and that journey's got to
22:16
be fast
22:16
yeah so online straight there and you're
22:18
donating in a matter of minutes
22:20
rather than a complex client acquisition
22:23
funnel as well
22:23
interesting you say that because when i
22:24
was growing up i'm so i'm in education
22:27
of course so we used to watch ads
22:28
to support a kid and so that's what i
22:30
would always donate to
22:31
your ten dollars to sponsor a kid who
22:33
can't afford
22:35
school gear or whatever it's gonna be
22:37
and you reckon your 10
22:39
is going to buy this kid school supplies
22:41
now that i'm older and i'm actually in
22:42
the profession i realize that 10
22:44
ain't going anywhere near that kid
22:46
buying school supplies and it's a much
22:47
broader issue it's not so i can't with
22:51
knowledge
22:52
i've been unable to kind of accept that
22:55
argument anymore but
22:56
before i had any deeper knowledge i was
22:58
like yep it was the very simple ten
22:59
dollars i can help i'm going to help you
23:01
absolutely
23:02
and that's a challenge with
23:02
not-for-profits these these problems
23:05
they face
23:05
are incredibly complex yeah it's not
23:07
just about providing food or water
23:09
that is part of it but it's only a a
23:11
part of it
23:12
um there's there's so much more to it
23:14
but if you can lock that down like you
23:16
said if
23:16
focus on the foods focus on malnutrition
23:19
we can tackle the rest
23:21
in the back but during an ad when i'm
23:22
trying to get people here
23:24
let's have a clear set boom one thing
23:26
we're looking at
23:27
the one thing you said there was a
23:29
sudden or powerful emotional shift
23:34
that i want to focus on yep
23:37
so if you go back to what we're talking
23:39
about that stress response with cortisol
23:42
turns out that memory mechanism
23:46
will kick off any time you have a sudden
23:48
emotional shift so if you go from
23:50
sad to happy and that's why we were when
23:53
you were saying earlier in a sea of
23:54
sadness happiness wins because
23:56
any time you shift emotions you're gonna
23:58
get that
23:59
um and even if you shift within an
24:00
emotion so if you go from kind of
24:02
basically happy too ecstatic or kind of
24:04
sad to pure depressed
24:07
huge emotional swings or emotional
24:09
shifts trigger off this exact same
24:11
mechanism it doesn't require cortisol
24:12
past this
24:14
so it's a different memory mechanism up
24:16
there neither here nor there but the
24:17
idea is that
24:18
yes if you can change my emotions boom
24:20
you're going to trigger my memory
24:21
mechanism i'm going to hold on to
24:23
something a little deeper a little
24:24
stronger a little better
24:25
so is that where the pain pleasure
24:27
really comes in or if you hit me with
24:29
pain right at the outset and then show
24:31
me
24:32
now that this kid is really happy and
24:34
doing well is that shift enough
24:36
to get me it's interesting because like
24:38
nobody efren
24:39
is sort of the chemical that you're
24:41
you're referring to yes norepinephrine
24:43
yeah yeah
24:44
so it's easier just to say adrenaline
24:46
we'll just adrenaline
24:47
yep adrenaline so when we're looking at
24:50
these ads as well and especially being
24:51
on the tools and seeing these
24:53
the shorter form ads so being 30 60
24:56
seconds
24:57
they never performed anywhere near as
24:58
well as either like a 90 or a 120 or a
25:01
longer form so you've got the story arc
25:03
in there that you can tell the story
25:05
but it's nearly like you really need to
25:07
let the audience feel it
25:10
and immerse themselves in it and then
25:11
also take them to the solution so
25:13
it's a longer form so that's kind of why
25:16
and again you go
25:17
it's a simple message you get their
25:18
attention from the outset but it's
25:20
literally by that
25:21
sudden or powerful emotional shift yeah
25:24
and if you i wonder if if you're right
25:27
is
25:28
in a 10 second in a 30 second ad can you
25:30
feel the counter emotion i i know i can
25:32
feel
25:33
disgust in 15 seconds because i feel any
25:36
time i see that kid or those
25:37
dogs getting hurt i feel disgust
25:39
immediately
25:40
can you swing my disgust into joy
25:44
in 30 seconds probably not because
25:46
disgust is a huge
25:48
emotion can you flip it in 60 seconds
25:50
you got a much better shot because you
25:51
have a lot more time
25:53
to actually show me the benefits and get
25:55
me to forget that disgust
25:56
as quickly as you can so i it's it's
25:59
it's
26:00
possible to do it on the fly and we do
26:02
it all the time i mean if you ever
26:04
are just walking on the street you see
26:05
some dude slip and you start cracking up
26:06
that's a huge emotional shift so it
26:08
happens on the fly all the time
26:11
it's just really hard to set up an
26:12
emotion and then
26:14
really quickly switch that emotion on
26:16
something totally on the
26:18
i'll add this as a caveat though so if
26:20
you're not for profit and there's a
26:21
disaster going on
26:22
or something there's an event that
26:24
people are familiar with or aware of
26:26
they already have an emotion attached
26:28
with it so right now if you go
26:30
covert in a third world country they
26:32
know covert and they just go wow the
26:34
impact of that
26:34
so the setup of the ad can be quite fast
26:37
yeah so
26:38
or it's a earthquake or it's a tsunami
26:40
people aware of it they've already been
26:42
educated on it so it's just boom i'm
26:44
already there
26:45
then set up the solution so for me you
26:47
can absolutely deliver that in a 30
26:48
second creative
26:49
because you don't really need to bring
26:51
them into this deep dark world or shift
26:53
them in this powerful way because you've
26:54
got
26:55
i'm aware of that problem i want to
26:56
support it and i want to get behind it
26:58
so that's very good
26:59
with not-for-profits yeah well i'm
27:01
wondering
27:02
we should take a look at the well i
27:04
guess they're older ads but
27:07
if everyone is switching into the more
27:08
positive there must be a reason for it
27:10
are they finding better returns on the
27:11
positive or is it just a movement
27:14
movement they're definitely not finding
27:15
better returns that is for sure
27:17
dang because it's it's hard to get some
27:19
if someone's feeling good it's hard to
27:20
get them to donate money
27:21
it's more around we don't want to show
27:24
you know especially children as
27:25
objects of pity or you know it's kind of
27:29
leveraging them
27:30
in they're using them to try and raise
27:32
funds like
27:33
it's a it's a it's a very big
27:35
conversation but that is the growth that
27:36
they're exploiting kids
27:38
to raise money for yeah and it's
27:40
interesting too i think there's another
27:41
big
27:42
whole side movement beyond that where
27:45
recently we've come to recognize that a
27:46
lot of the bigger
27:48
charities your money wasn't going into
27:51
the kids at all like 80
27:52
of it was going to salaries to keep
27:54
fundraising
27:55
and so there's with that kind of
27:57
pushback i think a lot of companies have
27:59
now realized we can't
28:00
we've got to kind of change the entire
28:01
image of this system we can't keep doing
28:04
the same otherwise people will think
28:05
we're one of the big charities we're
28:06
just stealing your money see you later
28:08
yeah absolutely but the one thing that
28:10
everyone should take away
28:12
is when you're looking at emotion you've
28:14
got to allow the audience to feel
28:17
so the more they can feel the more they
28:19
can resonate but also you're talking
28:20
about memory
28:21
you know the deeper the memory and as
28:23
we're talking about feelings let's look
28:25
at one of the
28:26
classic creatives so this is five gum
28:30
oh we went with five gum we've gone five
28:33
gum
28:34
so we're talking about feelings and
28:36
allowing the audience to
28:39
[Music]
28:43
for a feel from the past
29:10
so
29:12
[Music]
29:36
five gum and the bouncing balls jared
29:39
this was your suggestion from the other
29:41
week we've pulled it out of the archives
29:43
if you have a chance go watch all the
29:45
510 there's there's dozens of them or
29:47
five gum there's dozens of them
29:49
and this is what they do go back to our
29:52
mirroring we feel things we
29:54
empathize and last week we were talking
29:57
about the juicy corn
29:58
if you see an arid desert with some
30:00
juicy corn squishing out
30:02
you can actually if i can look at the
30:04
sensory portions of your brain
30:06
you are tactilely feeling that you are
30:09
tasting that corn in that moment
30:11
not as extreme as if you were actually
30:12
eating corn but enough that the brain
30:14
starts to change and adapt as though it
30:16
were real
30:17
five gum did the best of this all they
30:19
did was tap into as
30:20
many different senses as they could with
30:22
a really low rumbling base in this
30:25
instance
30:25
base really smooth balls it was all
30:28
about the texture of those balls
30:30
you could see this dude's hair blowing
30:32
the coolness
30:33
when it's happening you've never felt
30:35
that before
30:36
but you have you've laid on a trampoline
30:39
before you've played with the
30:40
you know what it's feeling like and they
30:43
say there you go that's your five gum
30:44
all we're gonna do is get you to
30:46
feel sensorily feel sensations and we're
30:49
gonna then say
30:50
that's what it's like and i think that's
30:51
such a cool cause you can't tell me what
30:53
your gum tastes like
30:54
so what are you gonna do instead i'm
30:55
gonna give you a whole different
30:56
experience and just say now
30:58
link that to my gum and go have a good
30:59
time i i don't know a single person when
31:01
these were coming out
31:02
there were some that had liquid like
31:05
splashing through
31:06
filters to get onto people's faces and
31:08
you're always like oh i could taste that
31:10
oh my god that's incredible and they did
31:13
it the fact that they did it so
31:14
repetitively too
31:15
what does it feel like to chew five gum
31:16
at the front
31:18
five gum from wrigley at the end now you
31:20
can put anything you want in the middle
31:22
and it became a meme
31:23
people just started putting random [ __ ]
31:25
so online they would have the opening
31:27
what it feels like to chew five gum
31:29
then they would cut to a clip of their
31:30
friend getting kicked in the nuts then
31:31
they'd say
31:32
five gun from wrigley anything that was
31:34
about sensations started to just be
31:36
plugged into this format
31:38
and i honestly when this started coming
31:39
out i don't remember i don't know anyone
31:41
who didn't
31:42
go buy five gum i remember talking about
31:44
it in the office i was in boston
31:46
and we all tried it it was nasty i only
31:48
i only tried it once it wasn't a good
31:50
product
31:51
but we all had to go try it because
31:52
those commercials were just so
31:54
dang compelling they were and like just
31:56
to echo what you said then
31:58
like the one that really burns in my
32:00
mind was i think was the
32:01
the cinnamon gum that came out but in
32:03
the ad it was this lady like in free
32:05
fall and she was over all these fire
32:07
jets and you can see her face just
32:09
starting to go a bit red
32:10
but as you can do it and they're talking
32:12
about the cinnamon flavor and it's
32:13
slightly hot and
32:14
this is how it feels and you just i feel
32:16
my whole body just sort of warm up but
32:18
immediately i'm
32:19
kind of tasting this this warm cinnamon
32:22
in my mouth as
32:23
she starts to glow and you're just like
32:26
wow the obvious
32:27
way would have been just someone walking
32:29
down the street and you see this
32:30
explosion in their mouth
32:32
yeah because what they've done is
32:33
elicited all the senses in your body to
32:35
feel it everywhere
32:36
rather than just focus on the taste buds
32:38
and it's interesting how you can do that
32:40
without being sell over and it shows you
32:43
how you
32:44
start watching paying attention to good
32:46
films versus
32:47
mediocre films the good ones you will
32:49
feel
32:50
like the temperature like if you're in
32:52
the arctic they'll find ways to make you
32:55
feel that coldness and it doesn't have
32:57
to be like you said like this dramatic
32:59
snowstorm just seeing the crystals of
33:02
snow
33:03
while hearing wind and then maybe
33:05
someone's hand coming in to scoop it up
33:07
when you start to get the tactic and
33:10
again at some point
33:11
there has to be a human being there for
33:13
you to start mirroring it so if all you
33:15
do is show me a cold spot i can think
33:16
about cold cool
33:17
but if you show me a person in cold how
33:20
they're reacting their skin bubbling up
33:22
now i will start to mirror that and
33:24
that's how i start to feel that chill i
33:26
immediately just thought of is it sore
33:27
where they're trapped in a room
33:28
and they've got to try and get out yeah
33:30
yeah and they've got these horrible
33:32
things where they're like cutting off
33:33
their own legs and everything else like
33:34
that
33:35
and they all have gross like i remember
33:37
one of those songs there's like 10 saw
33:38
movies now where one was like
33:40
in a bunch of pig guts and stuff but you
33:43
because now you're getting disgusted
33:44
because it's in his mouth and stuff
33:46
you're like no
33:46
no that's what we do it's a way i always
33:50
think about it like this is people say
33:51
okay film
33:52
is a visual or an auditory medium and
33:54
all i say is no just go
33:55
watch any clip of a kid wiping out on a
33:57
skateboard
33:59
everyone's reaction will be oh that's
34:02
not
34:02
because that's what we're trained to do
34:05
that's because in that moment you don't
34:06
have a choice you're mirroring that kid
34:08
when the kid falls off the skateboard
34:10
you flinch at the pain you didn't get
34:12
the pain but you flinched at it because
34:13
your brain was trying to send it to you
34:15
film is a sensual medium as well as
34:18
anything else if you play it right we
34:19
will mirror your actors who
34:21
mirror your characters you can get us to
34:23
taste smell things that don't exist
34:25
because you've done it well on screen
34:28
and that's and that's why i think they
34:29
did so well here
34:30
so does that just be before we wrap up
34:32
so talking sudden and
34:34
powerful emotional shift does that have
34:36
to do with
34:37
like a feeling emotion like does that
34:40
just for everyone out there does memory
34:43
the deeper memories form when emotion is
34:45
present or
34:46
it's the emotional shift where deeper
34:48
memories form
34:49
yeah so you tend to say emotions are
34:52
always on
34:52
so emotion itself doesn't lead to deep
34:55
memories
34:56
it's the mechanisms behind those
34:57
emotions when you do emotional shifts
34:59
that kicks off the mechanism off you go
35:01
when you click into stress
35:02
that kicks off the mechanism off you go
35:04
so anyone who says emotions are
35:06
everything
35:06
not when it comes to memory not really
35:09
it's the emotional shifts
35:11
or what those emotions cause you to do
35:13
that then later lead to that deep memory
35:15
a good rule of thumb is is this is
35:20
let's say you have a car wreck today you
35:22
have two events you got in a car wreck
35:23
and you bought a new hat what are you
35:26
more likely to talk about with your
35:28
friends tomorrow when they say hey how
35:29
was your day
35:30
you're going to bring up the car wreck
35:33
that recall
35:34
of that memory is what led to the deeper
35:36
memory and why were you more apt to
35:38
recall it because
35:40
during the wreck you had enough of
35:42
emotional boost
35:43
that triggered this memory system and
35:45
now that said kind of imprinted it and
35:46
said
35:47
i want you to recall think about this
35:48
later so it's not the
35:50
i know this sounds weird but it's not
35:53
the emotion itself it's what does that
35:55
emotion cause you to do later
35:57
is where we get our deeper memories and
35:58
if the emotion doesn't cause you to do
36:00
those things
36:00
you can have the most emotional thing in
36:02
the world and you won't remember it but
36:03
just on the emotion so is it just the
36:05
emotion or sorry the shift but do you
36:07
also need say
36:08
stress and then safety to
36:12
no when it comes to stress stress can
36:15
stand on its own
36:16
disgust can stand on its own um and
36:18
largely
36:19
anger can stand on its own but the other
36:21
ones
36:22
joy sadness surprise kind of require
36:27
actually i would put surprising instead
36:29
of anger sadness happiness anger
36:31
require more surprise is enough that
36:34
that can kick off a mechanism
36:35
discuss is usually enough to kick it off
36:37
on its own too um
36:39
but yeah so that's why we think if
36:41
you're if you're dealing with attention
36:42
it's all kind of about to grab the
36:44
attention the surprise because if you
36:45
can get that
36:46
surprise jolt congratulations you have
36:47
me but if you're trying to play with
36:49
something like
36:50
joy or sadness or depression you've got
36:52
a lot more you have to do the swing you
36:55
have to have the pain pleasure to
36:56
form that deeper memory very very
36:59
interesting well dr
37:00
j as always thank you for your
37:02
contribution and also just helping
37:04
educate everyone in terms of what's
37:05
going on inside our brain
37:07
as we're exposed to these type of
37:08
creatives so episode 9
37:11
it's a wrap thank you for tuning in
37:13
jonathan rowley
37:14
dr j tuning out till next time
37:22
[Music]
37:38
you