118: How Jewish Educators Can Make Learning Feel Real with Rabbi Noach Muroff

Rabbi Noach Muroff was born and raised in Ottawa, Canada. He studied in Yeshivas Bais Yisroel in Yerushalayim for six years. While in Israel, he received his semicha from Rav Zalman Nechemia Goldberg. He then earned a Masters of Education in Administration and Supervision from Loyola University in Chicago and completed the Ohr LaGolah Teacher Training Program. During a six-year tenure as a high school Rebbe in Connecticut, Rabbi Muroff made international headlines for returning $98,000 that he found in a secondhand desk. He started at Torah Day School in 2017 as the 8th Grade Rebbe and joined the administration in 2019, now serving as the Boys' Principal. Rabbi Muroff is passionate about educating the next generation to lead their lives with Torah, middos tovos, and Kiddush Shem Shamayim.

Gems:

• To be an effective teacher there are two parts: you have to master and be comfortable with the material that you’re teaching, and you must be able to effectively give over that material.
• It’s important to have the basic skills of classroom management, etc. 
• Allow yourself time to grow in your role.
• Make the material relatable, it makes all the difference.
• Make sure our students feel that they’re loved, cared for, and that you want them to succeed.
• Technology is one of the biggest challenges we’re facing today that makes teaching harder.
• There’s nothing a teacher or Rebbe can do to compete with the fast-paced technology.
• Find ways to teach in an engaging and exciting way.
• Talk about different scenarios that come up in our daily lives.
• You can’t force it.
• Educate the parents and make sure they fully understand the dangers of technology.
• Too much exposure to videos on the internet sets up our children for a harder time learning.
• If children are not bought into the decision, they will find a way around it.
• Help them understand and appreciate the benefits of living a Torah lifestyle.
•  Teach them how to use technology responsibly.
• Gather other parents to sign an agreement to not allow cell phones for the children.
• Parents need to be the parent and stand their ground on important issues.
• Make sure students can read well.
• We need to constantly adapt to reach our students.
• You have the opportunity to make a real impact and change people for the rest of their lives.
• Usually it’s the way that a student is taught is what they remember. 

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Transcript

Welcome And Program Announcement

SPEAKER_01 0:01

Welcome to the Jewish Education Experience Podcast with your host, Yasmina, featuring inspiring conversations and gems of wisdom from Jewish educators around the world.

SPEAKER_00 0:13

This episode is brought to you by TikTok. There is a growing movement reimagining Jewish education, one grounded in a simple but powerful idea that real thinking starts with real reading. A movement that believes teachers should be teachers, not therapists. And that every Jewish student deserves to understand how Judaism has shaped the human story. Tikva, a leading organization in this space, has partnered with the University of Dallas to offer a master's degree that reflects that vision. An MA in humanities with a concentration in Jewish classical education. This isn't just a program for classroom teachers. It's designed for educators, yes, but also for parents, school leaders, and anyone who wants to engage deeply with Western civilization and culture through a Jewish lens. If you're looking to strengthen both your teaching and your own learning, this is a program worth exploring. Applications for the upcoming year are now open. To learn more, visit Jewish Classicaleducation.org. Again, Jewish ClassicalEducation.org. And thanks to TikTok for supporting our show. To our audience, thank you so much. We really appreciate your support. And because of you, our podcast has reached 10,000 downloads and growing. It's continuing to reach Jewish educators, parents, principals, administrators, and also students. Also, please consider supporting our podcast by joining our Patreon community.patreon.com forward slash Jewish Education Experience Podcast. And to all of you Jewish educators and students of Jewish education around the world, please go to the Inzu. May you be strengthened and encouraged in your holy endeavors.

Guest Background And Why It Matters

SPEAKER_00 2:24

In this episode, I interview Rabbi Noah Mira. Rabbi Miraf was raised in Ottawa, Ontario, Canada. He studied in Yeshiva's Bacius Rao in Rushalayim for six years. While in Israel, he received his SMIPA from Ravzalman Nahemia Goldberg. He then earned a master's in education and administration and supervision from Loyola University in Chicago and completed the Orla Gola teacher training program. During a six-year tenure as high school rabbi in Connecticut, Rabba Miroff made international headlines for returning $98,000 that he found in a secondhand desk. He started a Torah Day School in 2017 as the eighth-grade Rebbe and joined the administration in 2019. Now serving as the police principal. Rabba Miroff was passionate about educating the next generation to lead their lives with Torah, Middle Tobok, and Peter Sham Shimon. It was a great opportunity to be able to interview Rabbi Mira. We actually have a mutual connection here because he grew up in Ottawa, Canada. And currently our rabbi, Rabbi Howard Fingelstein, who I interviewed previously on the podcast, which you can listen to, was his rabbi. He learned under him while he was in school. And so we were able to make that connection there. It was such a fascinating story, by the way, to hear that this was the person who found the money in the desk. I remember hearing about that several years ago. And to put two and two together that this was actually the same person who did that incredible mitzvah and returned the money. I didn't even realize it at the time where when we were doing our interview. And it wasn't until after our interview, and I looked up his bio later, that he was that person who had found that money in the desk. So unfortunately, I didn't have a chance to talk with him about that experience in person. Some things that really stick out from our interview is that he mentions in order to be an effective teacher, there has to be two parts. You have to master and be comfortable with the material that you're teaching, and also to be able to effectively give over that material. And of course, you need to have those basic skills of classroom management and patience. And overall, one of the themes that so many educators say during this process of interviewing is that we really need to focus on building the relationship first. That our students need to feel that we really care about them, we love them, we really want them to succeed. We're battling today this technology and the internet and social media and all of these things, and it makes it so much harder for us as educators to be able to meet with our children and connect with them and connect with our students and really give over the information that we're giving them and making it relevant to them so that they see how does this impact my life? How can I use this for my life? And that's exactly what we need to do as teachers, as educators, and even as parents. We need to show our students that this is relatable and this is relevant in their life and it will help them in their lives. We need to find ways to teach in an engaging and exciting way so that it allows room for our students to s to comprehend the information and to internalize it, and so that they continue to want to grow and learn and develop and become better Jews and become better people overall. So, one way to do that that he mentions is to talk about different scenarios that come up in their daily lives. And how does Torah play a part in that? How can Torah help them manage that challenge, or how can Torah help them work through what they're going through? And of course, we need to educate parents also on the dangers of technology and make sure they fully understand what they're getting into and the decision that they're making when they're giving this to their children and allowing them to have the opportunity to watch something or to have even just their own phone, letting them know their responsibilities and the potential dangers that are involved in that. Help students understand and appreciate the benefits of living a Torah lifestyle. It is a beautiful lifestyle. And Torah is really our way of life. And it's our job and our duty to really help our children and our students to see that. One thing that I've read in some parenting books, and Rabai Miroff mentioned this, is that parents need to return to being the parent and stand their ground. And of course, it is really important that we have a loving relationship with our children. However, our children need to know that we are the ones in charge and we are the ones making the decision and that we have their best interest at heart. I say this sometimes to my own children when they question, oh, why can't I do this? Why can't I do that? Or why can't I have a phone right now? Well, the reason why we are your parents, and this is this the decision that we've made, and we feel that is the best decision in order to help you and protect you. And lastly, you have the opportunity as educators to make a real impact and change people for the rest of their lives. Don't ever take that for granted. I hope you enjoy listening to this episode.

Rabbi Mira’s Path Into Education

SPEAKER_00 8:26

Our guest today is Rabbi Noah Mira. Thank you so much, Rabbi Mira, for coming onto the podcast. I really appreciate it. And I look forward to speaking with you.

SPEAKER_01 8:37

Likewise, looking forward.

SPEAKER_00 8:39

Will you tell us a little bit about yourself and just how you began your journey in Jewish education?

SPEAKER_01 8:46

Sure. I grew up in Ottawa, Canada. I grew up with maybe a little bit more of a modern background. I went to Hill Academy of Ottawa, followed by Yitzhak Roman High School for 9th and 10th grade. And 11th and 12th grade, I sort of pushed my parents to send me to the yeshiva high school in Ottawa. And from there I went to study in Eritz Ysrael. I was there for six years, three years single and three years married, learning, learning in different yeshivas. Primarily I learned in Yeshiva's Bayesial in Yerushalaim. So while I was there, like all good Jewish parents, you know, my parents were concerned about me. What was going to be, what was I going to be uh doing with my life. At the time I was sitting, I was interested in sitting and studying in yeshiva and just sort of building myself up in terms of my own education. So at that time, to make my parents happy, I got smikha from Rabbi Zalman Nechami Goldberg. It was done for my parents at the time. I figured, listen, you know, it's something which uh if if I decide to go into education, it'll be helpful. But at that point, it was just sort of for my parents. As those years in yeshiva sort of continued, I realized that actually this was something that I wanted to do. I wanted to go into the area of education. From the yeshiva, I got my bachelor's in Tamil Law, which by itself, you know, is not necessarily so uh such a valuable degree. In fact, program master's in in education, actually specifically in school administration, through a it was a Frum program that was being done through Loyola University in Chicago. And I got my master's in in education uh through there. So that degree, which I was able to do, it was over a couple summers, and it was a very intense program, you know, combining all of the classes basically into those two summers and a and a fall practicum. But it enabled me to get a master's in education with a focus on on school administration, which at the time I sort of said, you know, I was more interested in teaching and being in the classroom, but I figured, you know, it's sort of good to have in the back pocket in case at any point I want to switch into administration. So that was great. I had the degree, and I was when we were come back from Israel, I was doing a little bit of, you know, substitute teaching and things like that. I spoke to Rabbi Calvin Rosenbaum was the Menal, the elementary school in Atlanta, Torre Day School of Atlanta, where my in-laws lived, and where I was uh, you know, doing some substitute teaching. And he told me that it's very nice that I have the degree, but if I want to actually go into Jewish education, I should go to one of these programs like Orlagola or near the elephant, where they have specific training for inside the classroom in a Jewish environment. And so I took his advice and I did the Orlegola program in Israel, which uh ultimately was very, very helpful for me, you know, to gain the skills that I needed to actually go into Kenoch.

Mastery And Delivery In The Classroom

SPEAKER_00 11:13

With your yeshiva experience and everything, how did you find going into the classroom and applying that knowledge that you had learned while you were in school to now being able to transfer over that to your students?

SPEAKER_01 11:27

There's a couple of different things. Whenever you're entering into the classroom, number one is you have to have mastered the material and you have to be comfortable with the material that you're that you're teaching. And number two is you have to be able to effectively give over that material. The first part, I would say it as a new teacher, that was certainly a challenge. I mean, it's always a challenge, is just to make sure that you have mastered the material that you're going to be teaching. For any new teacher, that's gonna be challenging. And especially when I first started, I was I was switching grades. Um, you know, I was teaching in a small high school in Connecticut, and they had me sort of switching grades and switching the subjects that I was teaching each year. So each year I was sort of like starting fresh, which was very challenging. So for um, you know, for many teachers, when they first start, they sort of get into the groove, they get their material, and they sort of keep going with that year after year. So that was a challenge that I had, but you know, something that you know that I worked on and Raj Rashem was able to grow in. You know, the second area there of being able to give over the material effectively, I think that's a combination of they say sometimes you know, teacher has it or they don't. So on one hand, it it is that you have to sort of have those basic skills, the basic classroom management. Of course, there's you know, techniques and things that that you know that can be that could be applied in order to assist. On the other hand, you know, no one's gonna have it perfectly in the beginning, and you're gonna have to um learn from learn from your experiences and and and grow, you know, um from month to month and year to year.

SPEAKER_00 12:41

Very true. Um, have you taught all different grades? Have you mainly focused on elementary or middle school or high school?

SPEAKER_01 12:49

I spent 10 years in the classroom before sort of switching to administration. First eight years I was high school, and then after the last two years, I was the eighth grade Rebbe, so middle school. I guess since they're taking an administrative role, I you know, there are times when we need someone to step into a classroom, we don't have a substitute teacher and going in. And uh Sub Bar Hashem, I've I now feel very comfortable going into almost any class, actually. I should say. I'm still not so comfortable going into kindergarten. First grade I can manage, but kindergarten is is not my thing. I have tremendous respect, you know, my kindergarten teachers who are great at what they do, but it's just it's just not a talent that I have. If there's a need for me to step in uh to substitute, I will I will do so, pretty much with the exception of kindergarten.

SPEAKER_00 13:25

There's a special gift there with the the little little ones, right?

SPEAKER_01 13:29

For sure. And again, I have my own children and I think I'm great at being able to deal with my own children, but when it comes to uh other people's children at that age, I just don't have the talents or the patients, maybe.

Teaching Different Ages Without Losing Them

SPEAKER_00 13:38

What have you found to be different challenges that you've faced going from high school and then working your way down, and then now in more of an administrative role? Um, what are some things that are similar? And then what are some things that are different and challenging?

SPEAKER_01 13:55

So as far as the different grades go, definitely every grade is different. When I first started, I was very much interested in teaching older students. Teaching high school students really spoke to me. And even as I continued and I and I shifted to elementary school, so I ended up in you know the highest grade. I ended up with eighth graders who, again, I felt like I could speak the same language. I just felt like it would be more relatable. There definitely are advantages to teaching older kids, but it also comes with its challenges. You know, teaching older grades, you are definitely many uh instances more likely to have chutzvah and to have to deal with attitude and different types of uh responses or the occasional uh physical uh confrontation between students or you know, things like that that you have to do with from time to time. Or as, you know, younger grades, maybe first through, you know, first and second, maybe first, second and third, students are really uh it's very different. You're speaking to a much younger child, maybe there wasn't something that I was interested in to start. And then you have the grades in the middle, you know, fourth, fifth, sixth. They're sort of like that in-between stage where they've they're getting a little older. They can have mature conversations, but at the same time, they're a little bit more innocent, and uh, you know, you don't have to deal with with the chutzpah. So looking back, I I look at almost year after year, like like the fourth grade class. And it seems like fourth grade might might be the sweet spot that you know the the kids are just really, really sweet and very little discipline. If if I had to do it again, I might have might consider becoming a uh a fourth grade teacher. But every grade is gonna have its challenges and its uh you know upsides, and you know, there's just a tremendous amount that you could accomplish and and at any grade level that you could really give over to your students.

SPEAKER_00 15:24

I think every grade has its challenges and but also it's good things too that you are able to work on and learn from and you realize, wow, that that actually made me a better teacher because you went through that experience.

unknown 15:36

Right.

SPEAKER_00 15:37

You mentioned that when you're in you when you were in yeshiva and as you were going through really helped you to see maybe this is the route that you wanted to go in. So,

Mentors Who Shaped His Teaching

SPEAKER_00 15:47

were there any educators in particular that inspired you on that journey?

SPEAKER_01 15:52

Um, so that's a good question. So I I would definitely say so my Rebbe Ramosh Leerfeld definitely made an impact on my life, and it definitely inspired me in terms of what is what a Rebbe can accomplish. Um, that's for sure true. A lot of my Rebeam over the years definitely had a great impact on me. But what's interesting is if I go back to when I was in high school, I wasn't so interested in in general studies. Like, you know, I sort of made my way through, but it wasn't like like a lot of high school boys, they're so into it. I I did what I needed to do in my past, and I, but I wasn't so into it. But then I had this teacher, Mr. Beamer, for I think the class was world politics, something like that. Just the way he gave over the class showed me that if you have a teacher who makes the material relatable and and and just has that ability to sort of give it over in a great way to the class, it makes all the difference. So he wasn't a Jewish teacher, but he sort of he he was able to give give over that um to make that impression on me as well. Um but I would say the biggest impact that someone had on me in terms of my approach to Hinoch was when I went to the Orligola program and Rabbi Ephraim Oratz, who at the time must have been a man of around 80 or something like that, and he was a mechanic, I think, for over 50 years. He he was a Rebbe and he was a Manal, and then he taught the Kinoch component of this course in Orligola, and he was just fantastic in terms of giving us the skills that we needed sort of to arm us for when we would be in the classroom. And he had sort of that old school approach, but still recognizing, you know, the different challenges and everything that sort of come about nowadays, and just, you know, just giving us real life examples of how to deal with different situations. And it really was, I'd say, foundational in terms of my approach on Genoch.

Keeping Kids Connected To Judaism

SPEAKER_00 17:26

We were recently listening to a panel about education and parenting. And I'm wondering what your thoughts are on this because you had mentioned some of the educators that inspired you and how they were able to connect with you and make things relevant for you to be inspired and want to continue learning. So, one of the challenges that I think we're all seeing is this maybe drop-off of students as they get to a certain age, they are maybe disinterested and not as inspired and wanting to continue to learn, or sometimes even to be observant. The latest poll I saw was maybe between 30 to 50 percent of modern Orthodox young people are now leaving the fold. And I'm wondering if that's something you've noticed also in your experience. And do you have some tips, or what do you think are ways that we as educators could help that problem?

SPEAKER_01 18:24

It's a good question, a very a very, a very important question. So I think that the first thing is that we need to make sure that our students all feel loved and cared for. In other words, often we get caught up in the material and curriculum that we have to get through, or as an administrator, maybe it's the discipline that I need to be working on with a student. But they need to feel that I truly care for them and love them and want them to succeed. That's the number one most important component, you know, for students to succeed and to want to stay part of Yiddish Kite and to stay through them and to want to, you know, continue to learn. So I think I really think the first element is sort of feeling that that love and that care. A second thing that I would say is that we have a big challenge nowadays with technology, and it's only getting worse you know worse and worse with with AI and you know and everything else. But basically we have students that are coming into our schools that we're having to compete with something much, much more entertaining. The students have access to phones and computers and tablets and TVs, and they're watching you know all of the latest videos and everything, which is constantly changing and exciting, and they're they're meant to uh keep people constantly scrolling and entertained. So then it becomes very, very challenging to keep those same students engaged in class because it just we can't compete. There's nothing that a Rebbe or a Moro teacher can do. You know, they could they could stand on the top of the desk and wave their hands and yell, but it's just it's just not as exciting as exciting as what they're getting as what they're getting elsewhere. So, but that still is the reality that we're living with. So given that that's the case, our our our teachers need to find a way to give over the material in an engaging and exciting way. Whatever that means. It needs to be, you know, just sitting and lecturing from the front of the room for an hour. I'm not sure if it used to work or not, but certainly now it doesn't anymore. You need to be changing things up that students can't sit for it for as long. They need to feel connected and engaged. And the Rebbe or the teacher needs to find a way to make the material real. So even though I think it's just as important to teach the same Gemara that we were teaching 50 years ago, a hundred and a thousand years ago, that Gemara needs to be taught in a way that it's gonna feel real for the students. The Rebbe needs to find a way. You know, if he's talking about different types of damages, so make it real. Talk about my ox scoring your ox, but then what happens if I'm driving the car and I smash into you? And you can talk about different scenarios or different things to make the Gemara come alive, to make it real. Without that, I feel like it's it's very challenging. And lastly, I would just say it can't be forced. We we have the positive khanoflabanao pidarcha that we need to educate every student according to where he is, according to his way. That means you can't you can't force it. And if you have a student that's it's just not working like this, you can't try to force a square into a circle. And you need to try to work with every single student.

SPEAKER_00 21:02

Balancing

Competing With Phones And Endless Content

SPEAKER_00 21:03

the technology, because obviously it's not going anywhere, it's here to stay. How do we help our kids, students navigate so that they can make wise choices when it comes to using technology? Because I think eventually we hope, yes, they're not going to be exposed to certain things on social media or this or that. But the reality is we can't shelter them from it forever. So, how do we give them maybe the tools or the skills so that they can navigate it safely?

SPEAKER_01 21:36

I think that the first step is to educate the parents and make sure that the parents uh fully understand the dangers of of technology. Um, what we find in our in in our schools is that the parents that value, you know, value this concept and are and are careful about the use of technology and have proper filters in their home and limit their children's. Screen time and things like that, we we see that and how it translates sort of into the classroom. So that's number one is making sure that the parents are educated and do a good job of protecting their children because that that exposure is happening at home. It's not happening in school, right? The schools, presumably, they have policies in place. There is technology, the technology is filtered. At our school, for example, we have Chromebooks, but they're whitelisted, which means that only a handful of websites, which we allowed, are available and nothing else is available. So home, then they go home and they have access to YouTube and to videos and to all different types of things. So then they're potentially putting their children at risk. Aside from all of the, you know, the greater dangers, just the danger that we spoke about. If a child is sitting all night and watching videos, even if they're totally kosher videos and there's nothing wrong with them, they're they're setting their child up for a very, very challenging school years where they're gonna, how are they gonna focus in class? You know, if they're constantly thinking about the videos. One one other thing, which I would just say is that to answer your question, how do we sort of educate the children to deal with that afterwards? So what what I tell my my children, for example, is and my children are fully on board, but I don't see why a child needs to have a cell phone at all. For sure, not until they get to high school. Like it's just a distraction. Not not even a dumb phone. They don't need a phone. You don't need a phone. We we told my older daughters when they start driving, that's when they could have a phone. Now, if they would have pushed back and they won would have wanted a flip phone a little bit before that, you know, it might have been open to it. And again, it depends on the child. But something like that is what makes sense to me. And I don't, it just isn't necessary. And I think for children, even throughout high school, I think I think it is very important for them to have filters on their phones to protect them. And again, if they're bought in, they have to be bought in. Because if if they're not bought in, then they're gonna find ways around the filter. So they have to be bought in. And that really sort of takes me to the next point, which is that in addition to the filters that we have, let's say, as protections for them, you we need to be giving over to them a mahal kaim, like right, a way of life. If they appreciate and understand what a Torah lifestyle has to offer, the dangers of technology, and they've they they really understand why it's important for them. So then I think then afterwards they'll be equipped to to deal with technology in a mature way. And they'll be able to, yes, maybe I need technology, I need to have the internet, I need to have it for my job, but I need to make sure that I have the proper safeguards in place and that I'm using it responsibly.

Training Parents To Set Tech Boundaries

SPEAKER_00 24:07

It really is such a big challenge. I think it's one of the biggest challenges that we are facing as parents. Just one of the challenges that I see with that too, though, is especially in the more modern Orthodox schools, is that there are parents who are giving their kids cell phones. And even at young ages, sometimes for families, they might say, Oh no, in our home, this is what we're doing. We're not going to give you a phone. But then there's that pressure of, but my friend has it, and this one has it, and that one has it. So, how can parents continue to maintain those levels of protection when there's that pressure also from other kids at school have it?

Handling Peer Pressure Around Smartphones

SPEAKER_00 24:47

Other families are allowing their kids to have that's a good question.

SPEAKER_01 24:50

So I would answer with two things. First of all, in our school, we have in some grades where parents of that grade have gotten together, it usually has to start in the younger grades before the kids start sort of pressuring their parents because it usually the parents all agree that the kids shouldn't have technology to start. And then some then some get it and they're starting to feel those pressures. In the younger grade grades, they form a group where they all basically agree and sign some documents. We are not allowing our children to have cell phones. Whatever I don't know exactly the specifics, but through such and such a grade or whatever, whatever it is, but we're all agreeing. And so then when my kid comes home and says, Oh, I need I need to get a phone, you say, What do you mean? No, everyone in the class, all the parents got together, and we all agreed it is not good for our children to have to you know to have phones. And sorry, we signed this agreement. So that could be a very, uh, very powerful tool. So parents that are struggling because other kids in the class are uh they're feeling that pressure. He got it and she got it, and he writes, Why can't I get a phone? I really feel that parents need to parent and they they need to stand their ground on important issues. If it's if it's really important, then they need to give it over to their child that it's really important. Their friend may have a smartphone, but that doesn't mean that their their friend's parents made made a wise decision. And I'm not stopping you from having a smartphone because I'm trying to be mean. I'm doing it because I care about you and and because it's really it really is for your own good. Again, every child is different. You're gonna have to work out, you're gonna have to work out something with them. Maybe, maybe, you know, maybe you could reward them for not having a a cell phone to show them, you know, you're you're so proud of them for not for not having a phone. We're gonna we're gonna go on a special trip together at the end of the year. Or I think the parent needs to stand the ground and and they need to, that said, they have to do do their best to get the kid bought in. Because if the kid's not bought in, you know, very often you find that the kids will they'll go and they'll buy uh a smartphone from from the store and the that the parents don't know about.

SPEAKER_00 26:34

Yeah, that's true. I like that you said in your school that a lot of the parents have gotten together and they've written up their own contracts and that they're on board and they have this already built-in system or block that just says that we all are the parents in such and such grade or whatever it is, and we don't want our kids to have school. So then you have that buy-in already. So yeah, that's such a great idea. And I and the other thing I just want to mention is in this panel that I listened to a little bit ago, one of the rebang up there, he mentioned that about uh rewarding. I think he said he rewarded his daughter. I don't remember what the incentive was, but such and such for not having TikTok or any social media or not using the phone. So I I do think that that has merit also.

SPEAKER_01 27:21

Aaron Powell I'm yeah, definitely all for that. In fact, I've seen this more in like the high school level, I guess, where it's more likely that boys are gonna have phones or girls where they'll have some type of uh school incentive program for anyone who doesn't have a smartphone or anyone who doesn't have any phone or and those could also be affected if it comes from the school also.

SPEAKER_00 27:37

Definitely. And would you say a lot of this anyway, like you mentioned about um parents having buy-in from their their children. So first and foremost, as they're raising their children, they need to make sure that they're having a deep connection with their children. Like you had mentioned educators connecting with their students, but parents also need to make sure that they have a strong connection to their children.

SPEAKER_01 28:04

Totally. Totally. There has to be a love, a loving, a loving relationship. And um and the child need needs to feel his his parents' love and and and that connection. And and technology has been tremendously damaging in that regard also, with probably with parents in general just living busier lives now in general than they used to. I don't know, just more going on, and in theory, technology should have made things, should have made less work for us, but it seems like we have more work and people are working later hours, and there's an expectation to be answering emails and text messages at all hours of the night. What but if a child sees that his parents are constantly on their phone instead of giving them the attention that they need, then that could also be a serious issue.

SPEAKER_00 28:43

True. We also struggle with it. I mean, I always say to my husband, thank God for Shabbat, that we at least have one day where officially we have to shut down and you know, we're forced to.

SPEAKER_01 28:54

Right.

SPEAKER_00 28:55

It's the one of the biggest blessings.

SPEAKER_01 28:57

For sure, 100%. Yeah, yeah, for sure.

SPEAKER_00 29:00

I understand not everyone feels that they're on that path yet, that they're ready to take that on, but hopefully more and more people will choose to take that path. 100%. See, you had mentioned before about giving over to our students uh Tanakh and the way that we learn in order so that they will continue to be inspired. Have

Building Tanakh Skills Through Reading

SPEAKER_00 29:20

you found ways to help your students really have a deep grasp of Tanakh?

SPEAKER_01 29:26

Um, yeah, so we definitely do have Rabam that will focus a lot on different Sharashim. We have our fifth grade Rebbe, I think he does 500 different shrashim that they have to learn, or it's 300 that they have to learn by by the end of the year. And our sixth grade Rebbe does similar. A few other grades do, you know, and they have these massive tests, like with where they have like and as they build up, it's maybe 10, 10 words a week, 10 shrashim a week. But then by the by the end of the year, it's you know, these these massive um tests that and and the boys do they do really, really well. By the way, just so you know, if if I keep saying the boys, it's because my responsibility at the school is for the boys, I don't deal with the girls' departments currently. So, so definitely sharashim, you know, you know, mastering sharashim is is very important um for learning Tanakh. One other thing which I would just say in general, which is is a challenge, I think, in in many schools, even though this may come as a surprise, but this is something which was discussed this year at the at the Termasari convention as being a challenge, is actually just Kriya, Hebrew reading. Students are not doing as well at Hebrew reading as as they used to. And again, I you know there could be a number of different reasons for that, whether it's to do with technology or just or it has to do with students just rebay them or whatever, maybe just not spending enough time practicing year after year. Like there might be more of an emphasis, oh, we want to cover more ground in Komish or in Mishnah or in Gemara, but we we have to make sure that the students are reading inside. So I would just say a strong emphasis on Kriya, on making sure that the students could read well, um, you know, year after year, and and and and continuing to put emphasis on that um to reinforce what they've the skills that they've already learned, I would say is is very important.

SPEAKER_00 30:56

That is one of the challenges that I've heard also. And I do think sometimes, I think you had mentioned this before, that we do feel like our students have to learn this, this, this, and there's so much they need to know that sometimes we forget to focus on the basics and really make sure that that is solid.

What Successful Jewish Education Looks Like

SPEAKER_00 31:14

So I just have one last question. I know we cannot really predict the future. What do you think successful Jewish education will look like in the future?

SPEAKER_01 31:24

It's a good question. Definitely is changing. The Hinoch from when I was a kid until now obviously is very different. But the Kinoch from five years ago and certainly from ten years ago is different. I mean, probably every five years you're dealing with different students with different expectations. Just to speak about one glaring difference is just that the students now seem to come with much more of a feeling of entitlement than they did years ago. That's just an example. So there are constantly changes, and we as teachers and as Mechanchim need to constantly be adapting in order to be reaching our to be reaching our students. And I would just say teachers in general, they have the hardest jobs in the world. Yeah, you have someone who works as a as a carpenter or something, you know, he and he's putting the nails into the wood. So every nail just, you know, just another nail into the wood, another, and he just keeps doing the same thing over and over. But we from for a teacher, we expect that every student is different and they have to work differently with every single student and be able to adapt. So the same thing is true, just sort of as time goes on, they need to be able to adapt, still teaching the same material, giving over the exact same Torah. I don't think there needs to be any change in terms of the material that we're giving over, we're giving over the same Mesurah from from Har Sinai, connecting them back to Har Sinai. But they need to find a way to make it relevant and exciting. That's a challenge that they have. One challenge that we have as time has gone on, like I've seen it more and more as years have gone on, is the challenge to find qualified Rebame and Moros and all teachers for Jewish education. If there's a message that I could get over to people that are looking to go into Hinoch, is that you know I feel that the reason why the numbers have dropped off in recent years in terms of people that are looking to go into Khnook, it's because people are looking to live lives of comfort. They're in other words, they're not interested in the mysirous nefish. They're not interested in sort of the self-sacrifice that's necessary to become an educator, to become a teacher. And anyone who goes into Kenoch knows that they're not going into Kenuk because of the money. That's not the reason, right? The people are interested just in money, then there are many other professions out there that they that they can go to. But by going into Kenuch, you have the opportunity to make a real, real impact. You have the opportunity to literally to change lives and to to to change people for for the rest of their lives. And you know, there's there are there are you know, you you could you could look in many different books um and and read story after story about the the different impact that that teachers and rebayim have made on their lives and how it changed who they were. And sometimes even more than the material that's being taught, it's the way that the Rebbe or the Mora taught them and gave over the material and showed them that love and that care. And years, years later, when they don't remember the material anymore, but they still remember that that bond and that relationship that they had with their with their Rebbe or with their Mora. And it could mean the world for a child, even from a child from a great home, but certainly a child that's coming from, you know, if they're coming from a broken home or from or from less less than ideal home conditions, it could provide that stability and be so, so crucial for a child. We have all different types of pleasures that we can gain in this world. Pleasure, money, this, that, whatever you get, it's short-lived. It's here and then it's gone. But we know that one of the greatest pleasures that we could have in this world is nachas. We have the nachas, let's say, from our children. When our children live up to the standards and expectations that we have for them, that brings us tremendous nachas. But that same nachas that we have from our children, we could have from our Talmudim, from our students. People that are looking to go into Khenoch, it's worth it. You go into Khenoch, you can make a tremendous impact. And uh Mits Hashem, you'll have uh tremendous nachas, not just from your own children, but but from uh from your many, many Talmudim and Talmudos for years to come.

SPEAKER_00 35:13

It's true. And so many of us have that that educator that we can remember how we felt when we were in their classroom or in their presence, that there was just something about the way they connected with us. And it is really special. And it it's something that it's also hard to explain to someone who is not an educator that this feeling you get or this um nahat, I guess that's the best word. That's when you see your student and they're driving, and and even years later, when they come, you see them and you run into them and they come back and they remember that moment, how you made them feel.

SPEAKER_01 35:49

100%.

SPEAKER_00 35:50

Definitely hope that educators, we will continue to inspire Jews to continue to want to be Jews. It's so important.

Closing Thanks And Final Encouragement

SPEAKER_00 35:58

Well, thank you so much for um agreeing to come on the podcast. And we were able to work out the time, so I'm glad that it worked out. I enjoyed speaking with you.

SPEAKER_01 36:07

My pleasure, likewise, and uh and thank you for the opportunity.

SPEAKER_00 36:10

Of course, and and keep doing what you're doing. I can see that you've got a lot of inspiration and that your students are very blessed to have you.

SPEAKER_01 36:18

Thank you very much. I appreciate that. Thank you.