S3 E8 Tasha Ten Spotlight: Stefaan van Hooydonk - Launching Your Curiosity Mindset

On episode 8 of Season 3  Arthi is joined by Stefaan van Hooydonk, one of the newer members of the Tasha Ten and founder of the Global Curiosity Institute, based in Belgium, talking about launching your curiosity mindset.

Stefaan gives us insight into his family and his world travels which include living in China, Finland, Saudi Arabia, UK and Holland, as well as the different episodes of his career, from investment consultant to now researching curiosity in companies and working with leaders. He defines curiosity for us, and thereafter explains the various dimensions of curiosity: world, others, and self.

Stefaan shares that although people start off curious they quickly become comfortable and stop probing or being inquisitive. For him, working on a new project ensures he is always out of his comfort zone.

You will have to listen in to find out more about Stefaan’s key advice, outlined as: Measure, Awareness and Intentionality (M-A-I).

Some wise words from Stefaan:

●        “curiosity isn't one single thing”

●        “curiosity needs a good environment”

●        “is my rate of learning greater than the rate of change around me?

 Listen to the full episode for so much more insights and ideas offered by my wonderful guest.

 About Stefaan van Hooydonk:

Stefaan van Hooydonk is founder of the Global Curiosity Institute and author of the bestselling book: The Workplace Curiosity Manifesto. Stefaan is deeply passionate about the  topic of curiosity, particularly in companies. He believes that curious individuals need curious environments to thrive and that especially in times of turmoil individuals and companies need to embrace intentional curiosity. With the help of a number of diagnostics he designed, he creates insights on what drives and what enables (or prevents) individuals and organisations to show up curiously. He consults global corporations and leadership teams towards building a stronger curiosity muscle. He is a regular speaker around the world on the power of curiosity to benefit professionals, leaders, teams, and organizations. Stefaan is the  author of the bestselling book: The Workplace Curiosity Manifesto.  Beyond all this Stefaan is a father of 4 and has started a permaculture foodforest!

Connect with Stefaan  in the following ways:

●        LinkedIn

●        Twitter

●        Website

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Transcript

Arthi Rabikrisson: 0:15

Hello, everyone, and welcome to the inspire your life podcast with me your host, Arthi Rabikrisson. I believe we find inspiration all around us, especially from the stories that we all have in us. My aim with the inspire your life podcast is to bring some of those real stories to light. Stories of my guests that resonate with you and me. It's by listening to the stories that we can be inspired and motivate ourselves to overcome, find a new path and rise even higher than we thought possible. Joining me on the show today is Stefaan van Hooydonk, one of the newer members of the Tasha Ten member , Tasha Ten family let me say and founder of the global curiosity Institute. Today we are going to be talking about launching your curiosity mindset, everyone. So Stefaan is deeply passionate about the topic of curiosity, particularly when it comes to companies. He believes that curious individuals need curious environments to thrive. And that especially in times of turmoil, particularly when individuals and companies really need to spend their time to embrace that intentional curiosity. And I like that you say that Stefaan intentional curiosity. So with the help of a number of diagnostics that he's designed, creates different insights on what drives and what an able even prevents individuals and organizations to show up curiously, isn't that interesting, everyone? He consults global corporations and leadership teams towards building a stronger curiosity muscles, is what he calls it. He is a regular speaker around the world on the power of curiosity, to benefit professionals, leaders, teams and organizations. Not to mention, Stefaan is the author of the best selling book, The workplace curiosity manifesto, beyond all of this Stefaan is a father of four and has started a permaculture food forest. My goodness. Stefaan I am thrilled to have you share more with us on the podcast today. So welcome to the Inspire life podcast.

Stefaan van Hooydonk: 2:56

Thanks, Arthi. It's, you've setting me up a little bit for for high expectations. I'm sitting on the top of my tip of my chair.

Arthi Rabikrisson: 3:06

My goodness, you've done. You've done so much. Oh my goodness, you've done so much. It's all you not me. But Stefaan, I was just giving everyone this high level sort of taste of what you are and who you are about. But actually we want to get to know in a bit more detail what Stefaan is all about what makes up him share more with us please.

Stefaan van Hooydonk: 3:28

I'm I'm Belgian I'm married still to the same partner from way back and still lovely together. I think, at least this from my perspective. So currently, we have four kids together is 19 The oldest is 27 now. Three boys one girl. I i left Belgium when I was 19 just really to travel the world and I spent some years in China then a couple of years in Finland a couple of years in Saudi a couple of years in UK work in Belgium work in Holland, so travelled the world a little bit. Indeed. Wow. It's been a couple of years. And my career is probably if we're talking professionally in my career, you can kind of three different episodes. The first episode was Investment Consulting, helping China in the in the 1990s when China was just opening up and foreign companies wanted to do business in China and did not really know how to kind of I was helping them in a marketing entry strategy. So that was really fun. And then I moved into the space of learning and development also in China when as was said you had the opportunities that the business school and because in those days a lot of in the had more and more investments into China and the the all the Chinese managers were very good in a traditional way of doing management had beautiful Engineers, beautiful production, when it came to general management, finance, human resources, etc, there was an lact because that that was not the word the country was doing before. Now we're different. So and then he had all these foreigners who had that knowledge but didn't know anything about China and where China was coming from. Education was the only way forward and night and opportunity set up this business school and from there on, I got interested in, in learning and development, developing people at scale. And then I joined Nokia, and I'm going to Nokia headquarters to Finland, them. Philips was head of learning there. And I was, and basically I've been in that second stage of my career, I've been setting up global corporate universities being head of learning by title is kind of chief learning officer pilot,

Arthi Rabikrisson: 5:50

right, right.

Stefaan van Hooydonk: 5:51

Until about four years when I was the chief learning officer of Cognizant big organization, 300,000 people, so a lot of learning happening in the IT space. But I decided to move away from the corporate world, the corporate world, and set up my own venture or the global careers, you will turn. Now the third part of Office of Professional business I'm in and I'm doing research now on curiosity, and working with leaders. I'm doing baselining of curiosity, I'm inspiring around curiosity, and also helping organizations to activate curiosity as it leads. You to HR to, to sales to marketing many areas. And it's it's, it's fabulous to see how many companies are seem to be ready for are becoming more curious and probably shed a little bit their 20th century mindsets. Yes. Adopt a 21st century mindset for a hugely different from me, 20th century is all about scale and scope. Yes. The 21st century is all about ideas. And when you say ideas automatically, you also say curiosity, when you see question, you say new answers? And you say new, also new questions to the ones we've been?

Arthi Rabikrisson: 7:13

Wow. I mean,Stefaan, thank you for painting that beautiful picture of sort of your trajectory as well, you know, into the different episodes of your life. And being in the third episode as you saying and and I'm curious, I'm using the word curious deliberately , wherever curious to know how many more episodes they may be come. But, you know, I think let's start, let's start at the basic Yeah, because you're talking about such interesting things around curiosity, but maybe help all of us the listeners and myself understand more about curiosity and a curious mindset. What does it mean from an organizational context?

Stefaan van Hooydonk: 7:52

It's a beautiful question. I think, Arthi the curiosity is one of those words that we use loosely. And we actually will never stop and ask ourselves, what does it actually mean? And what is that? And what are the boundaries? And what what is happening really, like so many other words in our language, but I've been focusing heavily on curiosity and when it will come to, to a definition for me, Curiosity is the mindset to challenge the status quo, to discover, explore and learn.Curiosity is all about you not being happy with what we have now. Curious about something new, curious about the status quo, what we have curious about the past. And that leads then to discovery to exploration and also learning. Now, curiosity for me, if we go one step further, has a couple of really beautiful dimensions, because when I think typically in our language we use Curiosity, we use curiosity and intellectual curiosity in the same concept. And that's very relevant. And in this, this data, that's beautiful, but I don't think curiosity stops there. Curiosity is not only being inquisitive about stuff, but it's also being interested in the author. And I call that social curiosity or interpersonal curiosity. Okay? How interested am I? How much how am I curious about the people that I live with the people that I work with?And I've already started seeing that kind of intellectual curiosity leads at a corporate level to innovation to creativity to new products. While while interpersonal curiosity leads to better relationships, and leads to empathy, right? So that's the first extra dimension and the second extra dimension is, is how interested how curious Am I about myself? I my and that's the area of self awareness. That's the area of of self reflection, or what am I superpowers? What am I my belief including limiting beliefs without a narrative. I keep telling myself why I can or cannot do things, what am I buyer biases, but also what is my value? What is my purpose and there is really going deep, I think that's the more difficult one, the curiosity by itself, we have two eyes to look at the world, and others, but we don't have really an eye on ourselves. And as Tasha, of course, we're both part of the same family, she says it by , 90% of the people say their self aware, but only about 10% really are. I'm 55 Now that I've got 55 years of, let's call it dusts on my soul. And that dust almost prevents me from really going, going down to the truth of who I really am beyond the specs I've been giving myself over the years, beyond the stories that I've been telling myself, beyond any biases or limiting beliefs or those three dimensions. And, of course, there's much more to say about curiosity. But when it comes to the workplace, i Many companies are coming out to me and they're saying, in those words, 20th century was great for us. 21st century is different, we need to reinvent ourselves. COVID Same thing, in the same in some industries were hugely successful. While in that exactly same industry, some companies were barely surviving. And all these openness in when times are volatile, just staying with what you know, or what you have in terms of services and products means going backwards, because everything else is moving so fast. So how are we going to embrace that future, that novel thing, the things that are by definition, unknown, and unknown, things are always a bit scary now we would rather be dealing with the things we know and the things that have proven

Arthi Rabikrisson: 12:06

It all comes down eventually to that, that themselves. comfort zone, right and pushing yourself out of that into the fear zone and beyond, isn't it?

Stefaan van Hooydonk: 12:17

Absolutely.

Arthi Rabikrisson: 12:18

I like how you've you've sketched for us the beautiful dimensions that you've mentioned, of course, as you said, there's there's many more and and I think I love the word superpower, right? Because you painted just before that a little bit of a view of where Curiosity could take an organization towards you said innovation and ideas and we are in that century of ideas. Would you say curiosity is the superpower that we need right now, to actually thrive in the world we are in?

Stefaan van Hooydonk: 12:47

I think it's definitely one of the one of the keys. It's not strange at the World Economic Forum had as coined curiosity as the key character trait of, of the 21st century. Because often it starts with curiosity. Now curiosity about the world about others about yourself, that put in motion, many things that lead to relationship to self awareness to resilience, but also something that's why intentionality is so important. We're not only aware, but we're also willing to do something about it.

Arthi Rabikrisson: 13:26

It's an agitation almost right. So the awareness, but the agitation towards action. Okay, I love that and really love that. So share may be with us then, from your own perspective, Stefaan, with that curiosity lens, what has been some of your own experiences that that stand out for you as a result?

Stefaan van Hooydonk: 13:46

Well, it's a beautiful question, and you're catching me by surprise, a little bit which is probably what you want to do anyway,Arthi. The I think that curiosity is hard to maintain at a high level in the beginning, we're all curious when we start something new, a new relationship, new job, new customer, we're all open and excited to get grips with this new reality. And then after a while, we we are at grips with this new reality. And we stop asking questions and I have what I've learned is that I always need a new big project, something that's out of my comfort zone and you mentioned that already involved in permaculture and I'm now a part time farmer. That's now my you my new venture, Because it's, it's it's allowing me to ask so many new questions or to feel that I'm again, a complete novice base. A year ago, two years ago, I didn't know how to plant a stupid tree. You know, how to hole how deep the hole do I put fertilizer in before?

Arthi Rabikrisson: 14:57

Yeah, what do you do

Stefaan van Hooydonk: 15:00

Whilst at the same time you want to care for this tree, not only because you paid for it financially, but also this is a living being that you want to care for that you want to put in the ground for 10s or maybe even longer. So what do you do? So for me, that new project has been a lesson for me. And also the three dimensions of curiosity, curiosity, world, others themselves. Every day when I'm brushing my teeth in the morning, I'm trying to tell myself, or encourage myself or prime myself, let me be a bit more curious about the world,other and self and in the evening, I kind of play that day film to myself again, and I say was I curious about the world, others and self. And some days I'm doing? Okay. Yeah, some days I'm doing not so okay. And then I encouraged myself, because you're talking about micro habits, i encourage myself to be a bit better on the next day. So curiosity is not isn't one single thing. Yes. And that's also the beauty of it. Because it's it, it helps me to get deeper in myself get deeper in, in others and relationship with an in it's actually quite fun. Once you start playing with the idea, like I'm trying to have sometimes these crazy weeks where I said myself his goal, every single conversation I want to get most out of. Okay, so I'm trying to have conversation with everybody, the cashier in the supermarket, and I'm trying to learn something from that brief encounter, how he or she is seeing on an hourly basis, or, or how he or she deals with heavy stuff, you know, anything that's going deep into the other person and being curious about his or her situation, and so much to be learned. And so

Arthi Rabikrisson: 16:55

I'd love to know what sort of response you get with that micro habit. Like, I mean, just, you know, being able to have this conversation with the cashier, for example, who probably is not expecting it in any shape or form, that somebody is actually wanting to know a little bit more? What typically, what is some of the feedback that you get from your sort of overtures around curiosity with others on an interpersonal level?

Stefaan van Hooydonk: 17:18

I've never had anybody who was frowning at me, being that this is, this is weird. This is you stepping out of bounds or so he has, yeah, he's just genuine with me, and maybe has to do with my, with my, with my, my, my, my, how I bring it about I don't kind of I'm not coming across as being nosy.

Arthi Rabikrisson: 17:44

intimidating or

Stefaan van Hooydonk: 17:45

showing that I'm interested, oh, this is not doing and I'm bringing that notion with care and with kindness, I really intention to learn, not with the intention to fix or to tell things better, and that people probably picked it up and, and, and I feel that I've come as a better person. And often these people also for however brief also were learning or knowing that somebody cared, or, and there's so does such a beautiful thing with questions that we can be asking people. And I, I'm not doing it enough myself, when I think there's one beautiful question. And we can all ask ourselves and is What can I do to be a better dot dot dot? A better dad, a better family member, a better daughter, a better colleague, you know, a better boss. I mean, management, we call that kind of reverse feedback with managers asking that reverse that feedback. But we're also afraid, I think, or we don't think it's necessary or to be vulnerable for those couple of seconds. And, and ask that question. How am I doing as your as your partner? Yeah. As your anything really, and then leave it? And then hopefully, but the beauty is, once we ask, we become stronger, just by the sheer fact of asking and showing up in a vulnerable way. We learn something and the relationship becomes better because the other person will, will appreciate what we're doing.

Arthi Rabikrisson: 19:31

All right. I always used to find that, even when I was still in corporate as well. And, you know, often people become so disconnected from senior leaders specifically because they feel intimidated by their title. You know, oh, the CEO of the companies in the room and we can't go talk to him or her and, you know, I don't know whether just by boldness or my stupidity Stefaan but I would always make a point of going and talking to the most senior person in the room with, you know, with a bit of awe from my colleagues who never used to see them as just the the person who's also looking for somebody to just come and talk to them. Beyond the titles, and there was a couple of incidents, I still fondly remember where one of the senior execs was actually alone at that point in time, and I introduced myself, and he actually, you know, after a little discussion said thank you for coming to talk to me, I don't often get people coming to talk to me. And it's exactly to your point, right, that we don't understand fully sometimes the impact that our little gesture of just being a little bit caring, and, and asking a few questions and being present in the moment could impact someone and the rest of the day, isn't it?

Stefaan van Hooydonk: 20:53

Absolutely. They took it took a mere we took some courage on your part, some fearlessness just to do that, and to step out of the mold, like and to go up to the person while everybody else was just watching and hoping and not taking another action? I think it's also great for the manager, on the other hand, yeah, he was welcoming you and he was opening up. And I see that in many cultures, that managers, they often they think that they're supposed to know it all right, they are paid more money, they're there for a reason. And, and they, they often don't allow questions, or they push it either more, or listening to kind of the difference between listening to learn versus listening to fix, yes. And then the more they do that, the more people are hesitant in talking to them. And it doesn't have to be that way. Actually, research shows the opposite. The more managers are saying, I don't know, let's find out together, the more they get, the more their teams become productive, and the more engagement there is, and the more respect those managers get.

Arthi Rabikrisson: 22:01

Right, right.

Stefaan van Hooydonk: 22:05

But it's a great, great, you did that meet.

Arthi Rabikrisson: 22:09

And, you know, it forms the basis of, I suppose, you know, for a lot of people even confidence, right. And certainly, in my coaching practice, and I'm sure you also find this when you're dealing with people that sometimes that can become a barrier for action to be taken. Because someone feels on the backfoot they feel they can't approach and then things just don't, don't get off the ground. So at least that is a little bit of, I suppose part of my own self discovery in the process of, of growing and then building up my own awareness, I suppose, in a way. Stefaan I do, I do want to understand, though, perhaps, what have been some of your biggest lessons because you I mean, you spoke about, you know, you're 55, but there's a layer of dust that you're still trying to penetrate through. What have been some of your biggest lessons as you're still undergoing your own journey of discovery around curiosity?

Stefaan van Hooydonk: 23:08

It's one one lesson already, Curiosity is not this simple thing. It's this. There's so many things to be discovered. And there's so little research being done on it, that it's I get even more excited to do more and finding out what are the barriers to curiosity including my own barriers to curiosity and why is it so easy to be curious in the beginning, and over time, it drops down and or kind of we settle for these new reality? Uou know, there is an exception, think about your, your habits or your passions, not your habit, actions or your hobbies, okay, your curiosity never goes down. It always goes up and if you're if your passion is your work, or if they're closely related, then then the sky's the limit. These are the people that are going up like yourself going up to the senior leader and are fearless and are not afraid of asking questions and and but I'm referring back to your question what what I've learned, I think deep down I want to be a good person. Keep the focus on that and not to be swayed by other things. Okay, and I'm talking world others themselves and find the equal time to focus on myself and have enough me time and have good relationships and being very interested in what's happening in the world. It's, it's hard and it requires introspection, it requires meditation, it requires long showers it requires a combination of, of working with the mind but also working with the with the hands and with the body. That's why I like knowing my project so much can arrange for half the week I'm having in myboots and weather shuffles. Yes. We're kind of bringing stuff. Right. In the week I'm, I'm deeply in a cognitive space, we're leaders around, ever what what is our culture all about? are we inviting for curiosity? Are we very different? But lovely? I like the mind learning. I? Yeah, it's I don't know, do I make sense?

Arthi Rabikrisson: 25:28

Absolutely. Absolutely. And I mean, the biggest, biggest thing for me is, you know, it's it's continual work in progress. And, and I think what I like that you've mentioned, because this is something everyone tends to talk about now is the level of busyness, right? There's no time for things all of a sudden, you don't if you ask sometimes, even if you just ask somebody, how you doing? And they say, Oh, how busy. You know, there's a lot going on. And one of the things about curiosity, as you've just said, is you actually need time to think, in different ways, the long showers going out into nature, whatever it is. So, you know, we're talking about launching that curiosity in mindsets Stefaan in this world of busyness and being time poor, that many people feel they are, what are some of the ways that you feel we can slowly start to reintroduce the time and the ability to become more curious again, in the way in which we view the three dimensions the world, ourselves and each other.

Stefaan van Hooydonk: 26:34

That's scary. Absolutely. You're absolutely right. I think that curiosity needs time and space. To be curious. Often, in meetings, I'm asking people, through a show of hands, who reads more books when they're on holidays, right? In everyday weeks, whenever we're in a rat race of, of working and producing stuff for me, patient and everything. Majority of our hands go up and under eating and holidays. And that's it. I think that's that tells that people curiosity needs a good environment. Curiosity needs time, needs space. And we need to create a time and space if we want to be better with the world if we want to be better with others and self sometimes there's, for me, a good reflection question for me is, when we're thinking about our own profession, is my rate of learning greater than the rate of change around me? Everybody can answer that, of course, for him or herself. And if your rate of learning is is slower, than the rate of change around me just in my profession, then maybe I need to do something about it. I need to upgrade myself, I need to learn about the new stuff in whatever profession you're doing. And at the same way, I can also have questions with with with others and self. Yeah, I for instance, if curiosity but others one question we could ask ourselves in, in my last meeting in my last week was I'm more curious or was more judgmental. Because judgmental means scan everything, seeing from my perspective and not being me what the other person is about and, curiosity of self could be Who am I when I really meet myself? Or who am I? When I see my authentic self in the mirror, without the Duster 55 years time?

Arthi Rabikrisson: 28:34

I mean, I think all three, I mean, the questions that you've posed, arre the deep reflective questions, actually, right, and and start to bring someone to the fourth, you know, am I in a closed space or in an open space to kind of think about this, and I when I talk about space deliberately, I'm talking more from a mindset perspective. You know, we we normally talk about fixed and growth mindsets and those types of things. But it's just, you know, the thing that you mentioned around that judgmental versus curiosity. Sometimes it's just so much easier to fall back on our assumptions and biases tend to be open to curiosity, and what could potentially come from it. Is their comfort zone again, isn't it?

Stefaan van Hooydonk: 29:20

Yeah, and absolutely back to your point about time and space. We need to find times to reflect versus doing do we want to be in a rat race all the time, like these rabbits?

Arthi Rabikrisson: 29:32

The hamster wheel Yeah.

Stefaan van Hooydonk: 29:35

Doing all the time, or do we spend time thinking and was doing a program with with a large group of Indian professionals and I asked one question, I said who does not have Facebook on their smartphone? And in hundreds of people, only a handful of people who went up right, and I congratulate them a bit because I think we have so many opportunities to find time, if we carer, if we're intentional enough about it if we, if we want it enough, and there's never an excuse not to do it. And there's always an excuse. If you're, like I do these master classes, and after the master class, I'm giving people daily tips and tricks and what elusive purposes like leave your smartphone at home today and see what happens.

Arthi Rabikrisson: 30:29

Aren't imagined I can imagine the fear and panic.

Stefaan van Hooydonk: 30:35

Talking about let's let's let's review the three questions that we just asked the world others himself for instance, is my rate of learning greater than the rate of change around we if that every answer is not positive? Do you want to do something about it? And you have to create time and to create time to learn something new. Everybody's talking about chat GPT now? Oh, yeah. How many people have actually downloaded it and logged on and, or logged on and, and tried it out? And that's also curiosity, just just doing it and finding time to figure it out? And, and ask a question like, yeah, Chat GPT. What do you think curiosity is all about? Or what do you think is? Any question?

Arthi Rabikrisson: 31:22

Yeah, interesting. Interesting. So I mean, I guess everyone, to all our listeners, we really talking about that ability to kind of stop in time, and to almost give yourself that time, right to get off the hamster wheel, and work through finding that time and space. Because the benefits, as Stefaan has just mentioned, actually cascade into so many different levels. Right. I love it. I love Syefaan. I mean, I can keep talking to you about this, I think all day because this is I think this is at the crux of even what I the work that I do with with my clients and and peers. So it's beautiful to chat about. But I think as we're coming out to the end of our conversation, I'd really love it. If you would share probably maybe the biggest or key let's put it that way, key piece of advice that you would want to share with our listeners, today's Stefaan about potentially what they could do, as one tangible step to launch their own curiosity mindset, or at least continue on the journey?

Stefaan van Hooydonk: 32:28

That's a great question. I think there's So the more we become aware, the more this curiosity becomes three things First of all, we can use even the word going to MAI the month of May ma first of all would be measure you can measure by maybe ask somebody how we are how curious Am I? Was I more curious or more judgmental in the last meeting, in the last month in allows the year or you can use it at home with our 16 year old daughter or we can ask it to our bosses or to our subordinates or even our customers. Or we can do a questionnaire I can go to my website global curiosity institute.com And you can do diagnostics free of charge about how curious Am I about the world. So that's measurement is important and then awareness, the more we become aware of curiosity and the we haven't even spoken about the opposite of curiosity for the moment, or just already when we start thinking about the world, others itself I'm sure that our listeners are starting to think Oh, am I more curious about the world and maybe it may be less or more curious about self and less about others? Am I more curious, at work versus at home, etcetera. abundant, because we're focusing our gaze, our focus on on this on this dimension and then a third dimension I stands for intentionality. What are we going to do with it? Are we are we checking our blind spots? Are we starting to learn something new? Are we creating routines? I know a beautiful, a beautiful person who has curious Thursdays and our Thursday meeting people in the weirdest positive place in a park or in a museum or she does crazy things on Thursdays you pottery class or you know, and she allows

Arthi Rabikrisson: 34:26

Sounds fun

Stefaan van Hooydonk: 34:28

actually allowed themselves to six days a week to be we're just doing the things that everybody is doing and for one day, giving ourselves permission to be curious or another nother intentional thing could be next time you're in a bookstore, buy the book next to the book you want to buy. Let's sell in the corner.

Arthi Rabikrisson: 34:47

Oh yeah, I'm gonna try that cause I'm a big bookworm. Or go in the bookstore blindfolded and point your finger around and go and start let go and maybe you'll learn something about something that you've never learned about and maybe, or in you go not deep in your own area that you've always been doing, but you go abroad somehow. So, measurements, awareness and intentionality. If you if you work around those three things, things are bound to get better. And maybe last last, maybe suggestion. Every morning, when you start your day, whenever that is, put your clock on four minutes and write four minutes of questions. And I guarantee you All questions will be around the world, others itself, there's no other question. And you don't even have to look for the answers to those questions. Because yours is will where you're put by by the sheer fact of writing down those questions, you'll put your subconscious in motion, to find answers to those questions, and just do that every day for minutes. And, and the questions will become deeper and deeper and more and more beautiful, and, and more and more authentic as you do. And so I hope I hope that gives you some inspiration.

Stefaan van Hooydonk: 36:05

Oh, absolutely. Absolutely. I mean, I love that last bit about you basically, you're putting something out in the universe and once you put it out there, I think you'll be pleasantly surprised everybody what comes back. Answers do come back Stefaan, it's been an absolute joy chatting with you today. Thank you so much for your time and for all of your nuggets of wisdom as well that you've shared with me and the listeners. Thank you so much. Thanks for having me. Arthi,

Arthi Rabikrisson: 36:31

Take care Stefaa, Bye Thank you so much for joining me on this episode today. If you like what you heard, rate, the episode and podcast and feel free to write a review. Plus, of course, share with others too. I love talking around topics like these. So if you like my perspective or insight in a subject close to your heart, or something that you're grappling with, reach out to me in your comments or send me an email via my website or connected me via LinkedIn, Instagram or Facebook or my social media on the podcast information. If it's important to you, then it's important to me. So happy listening to the inspire your life podcast and catch you soon on the next episode.