The LeaderLab: Powered by LifeLabs Learning

Grow Kind: The Leader Level Wrap Up

• LifeLabs Learning • Season 3 • Episode 38

Share episode

When we look at change in the workplace, it can often be challenging to navigate. As a leader, there are ways to guide your team in an empowering and empathetic way. Join us for this special panel-style conversation on Grow Kind Leadership in times of uncertainty.

Want training for your team? Get in touch with us to find out which learning experiences are right for your team.

[Music by Blue Dot Sessions]

SPEAKER_02:

So I am joined here today on the Leader Lab podcast by three fabulous lab mates. That's what I call my colleagues here at Life Labs Learning, talking us through the people leader level skills of growing kind. I have Annie Rose London, Victoria Chen and Rachel Glick on the show. So, so happy to have you all back. What's up? Hey,

SPEAKER_04:

happy to be here.

SPEAKER_02:

Really, really excited to be chatting with you for the next few minutes. So when you think about growing kind as a people leader, what are some of the first things that pop up for you Let's start it off with Rachel Glick, a definite grow kind leader in my eyes.

SPEAKER_04:

When I think of growing kind, I think of being communicative, being transparent, encouraging people, positive reinforcement, keeping it real. Those are things that come up for me.

SPEAKER_02:

Yeah, definitely keeping it real. And one person that I know that does that really well is Annie Rose. Annie Rose, what comes to your mind?

SPEAKER_03:

The first thing that came to my mind was a giant tree and the way that a giant tree will sometimes... grow around an obstacle, even lose a limb, will move towards the light. And this quality of being able to change as the size changes to make systems and structures that fit, that popped to me. Yeah,

SPEAKER_02:

that feeling of like adaptability really resonates. And I think one person that I know is super flexible and amenable to change is Victoria Chen. So I'm curious for you, Victoria, what comes to your mind when you're thinking of a grow kind people leader?

SPEAKER_01:

First of all, Vanessa, these transitions introduced I would say plus one. I fully agree with everything that Rachel and Annie Rose just shared. Annie Rose in particular, that example of the tree, that vastness of vision, that adaptiveness, I think really do resonate with me. Beginner's mind, I think something that Zen teacher Suzuki Roshi described in essence, recognizing that to quote in the beginner's mind, there are many possibilities, but in the expert's mind, there are few. And just that ability for us to pivot as needed. to me is also just a hallmark of growing kind.

SPEAKER_02:

Yes. So we have grow kind wisdom from, you know, the depths of history showing up on the podcast. And I want to kind of bring us into the here and now because I know people are constantly hungry to figure out how can I establish a grow kind culture on my team? So my first question is how my people leaders do that? What should they do and what shouldn't they do when establishing a grow kind culture?

SPEAKER_04:

Okay. I think this This one's a little meta, which is classic for LifeLabs. But I would say to establish a grow kind culture, there is something to, you know, high intention and low attachment. So what I mean by that is I will do everything, everything I can that is in my, you know, locus of control to create this culture of kindness and to grow in this way that feels sustainable and supportive. And I will let go of the things outside of my control and the outcome. And I think that if we can model that, that is indeed growing kind, because that's exactly what we want those in the culture to do. Let's do what we can and then let go of what we can't control.

SPEAKER_02:

Yeah. So this idea of like locus of control, what we know from research is that when we focus on the things that we do have some authority over, stress levels go down, confidence goes up, and we're better able to function. So I'm curious How this is kind of resonating for the other two folks in the room. Well,

SPEAKER_01:

for me, I'm thinking about just the power of questions when it comes to growing kind, you know, leaning into questions as a way of building connection and insight. And I guess on the flip side of that, avoiding assumptions about what people are thinking and feeling and what their historical experiences have been. So questions are not only a way for us, I think, to anticipate and to understand, but they're also a way for us to avoid solving for the wrong problem, which I think is a really common trap that we find ourselves in, especially in times of uncertainty like these ones that we're navigating.

SPEAKER_02:

Annie Rose, I also saw you smile.

SPEAKER_03:

So what was coming up for you? Oh, I just learn so much whenever I hear these two people speak. So there's plenty coming up. One thing I appreciate about what Victoria just said, it was actually reminding me of a client that I worked with a little while ago. This is a whole group. And when asked, well, what gets in the way of a question culture in your organization? They really all had the same answer, which was constant, urgent It's constantly feeling like there was a fire. There was a fire. Everything was a fire. And that can happen both in times of steep growth. It can also happen in times of letting people go, of downsizing. It's kind of the same dynamic, actually, of urgency, which can interrupt questions. So I just appreciate naming that as a really key part of growing kind. The only thing I would add in terms of your query about what to do, the do's and don'ts, and they're kind of like flip sides of the same thing, really, for me. So the do that comes to mind is have Mm-hmm. in and be a part of the solution with you.

SPEAKER_02:

Yeah, absolutely. Which brings me to my next question on, well, let me set us up a little bit. So for my listeners in the future, we are on the precipice, possibly, we don't know yet, of an economic downturn. And there's lots of different fears that are permeating through the world of work. And some people are experiencing layoffs, some people are not. But it can feel a little contradictory to talk about how can we grow kind, especially when the economic landscape honestly might feel a this is there's been some research done back in 2010 about the four different recession approaches that companies have. You have prevention focus, which is playing defense, layoffs, cost cutting, etc. You have promotion focus, which is playing offense. So this is basically denying the gravity of the crisis, like Annie Rose mentioned, not making any adjustments. Then there's the pragmatic approach, which is offense and defense. And then finally, there's the progressive response, which is the optimal combo of offense and defense. So this is increasing operational efficiency, developing new markets, enlarging your asset bases, also no layoffs, which I'm sure is music to people's ears. And the reason that I bring this up is the research found that the more you went onto the pragmatic and progressive approaches, the more likely your company was to better perform post-recession. So I thought that was really, really interesting and comes back to that question about what does grow kind leadership look like in an economic downturn? So curious, Victoria, what are your thoughts there?

SPEAKER_01:

I love everything you just shared, Vanessa. Thank you so much. which I think often go overlooked in times of uncertainty and in times of change. And that's a way of actually inviting and applying the collective expertise and experience that we all have to offer. But in honor of what Annie Rose shared earlier, I would add a fourth here, which is the power of taking a pause. I think that is so revolutionary and so difficult to do, but it's really putting into practice the idea of slowing down in order to speed up.

SPEAKER_02:

Well, what I really liked about what you mentioned is it not only dovetails with what Annie Rose was saying, but Rachel Glick did an entire episode on Those exact components. So, Rachel, could you refresh our memory as to what the data dive is about and what those steps are and how that marries with grow kind leadership?

SPEAKER_04:

Thank you for that, Vanessa. It's so true. What the data dive does, it's a tool to enable performance in all moments, but particularly when there might be underperformance or underperformance of the organization due to, you know, the macro circumstances that are upon us and what it focuses on are the inputs, the things that are in our in tandem with the outputs or the outcomes. Because there are, like I mentioned, so many things that we cannot control, but where we can create moments of meaning and progress through understanding what are those small micro behaviors that I can exercise and try out so that then people are feeling more empowered about what is in their locus of control. So this would be an area that I think every leader has in their toolkit that's accessible to them.

SPEAKER_02:

component of grow kind leadership is not only this ability to sort of face reality, but to use it in a way where we're influencing behavior for the positive. I've seen so many unfortunate instances of reactivity that goes into the negative. People start fighting, there's friction across teams. But what I'm hearing from this room is that these are the moments that we actually double down on some of these people leader skills. Annie, I see a deep nod coming from you. What's happening over there?

SPEAKER_03:

Apparently, I'm a very visual listener have to be aware of that. I just, I'm so riveted by everything. I'll say it each time. What's coming up for me is, you know, thinking about this question of what should, you know, like what does growth kind leadership look like in times of economic downturn? I think the good news is that it kind of looks the same. The core parts of growing kind, that's the DNA of what it takes to grow well. That's also the DNA of what it takes to go through conflict and difficulty well, because it's people centered. It's relationship-centered, it's trust-centered. And that's where resilience comes from. And it reminds me a little bit of the famous group theory model, which is form. What is it? Is it? Oh my gosh. Form, storm, norm, perform, right? A lot of people actually need to storm before they can trust an organization, before they can perform at their best. This is the idea that people need to kind of have actual conflict sometimes before they can be really collaborative teams. So at the organizational level, how can moments of downturn actually be opportunities to kick up you productive storms that move towards performance. I think there's a lot of potential in that. I love the low-key drop

SPEAKER_02:

of Tuckman's model. Always a fan of that. And I think I had a mind-blown moment, which I'm kind of shy about because you mentioned something so poignant, which is great leadership is the same regardless of what's happening outside of the business. So this makes me get a little bit sentimental about the GrowKind leaders that I've had the opportunity to work with. Shout out to Tanya Luna But I'm curious, in your time on this planet, this can be personal or professional, do you have a grow kind role model? And what did they do differently

SPEAKER_03:

that inspired you? I have a few, but one that is just top of mind right now because she is like right now transitioning out of her role, which is very exciting, is my friend and mentor Shilpa Jain, who's been the executive director of an organization called Yes World for about 10 years. And they've grown a lot under her leadership. This is a nonprofit that creates retreats for changemakers and has resulted in countless unbelievable collaborations and world changing things. And each time that a new team popped up, they would spend what I might consider too much time relationship building. But it paid off in just spades because the foundation of relationship and trust, especially at the beginning, they were able to take over entire projects and just be so much more creative. And even more importantly, like happy together by the types of conversations they had early on, really just a lot of getting to know you conversations early on. So shout out to Shilpa Jain.

SPEAKER_02:

And I was told by one of my producers in the booth over there that this person is low key famous in the social change world. So love to make sure that they're getting their flowers. Victoria, what about for you?

SPEAKER_01:

Gosh, so many people come to mind. But the first and foremost, I think would be somebody I used to work with in a previous role in the School of where, you know, this is an incredibly well-established researcher, physician, program director, somebody who wears many, many hats. And still at the same time, I think a living embodiment of that beginner's mind I talked about earlier is just, you know, her ability to see value in a diversity of perspectives and to actually implement her commitment to that value through asking questions, through seeking insight, set aside her own expertise to make room for others. Expertise, I think, ultimately contributed to a stronger everything, whether it was an experience, a product or a conversation. And I feel like really allowed people to reveal the humans behind their roles. Right.

SPEAKER_02:

Right. And also lower the power dynamics, you know, in the space. So that way there's that feeling of psychological safety, which has come up in a ton in our Grow Kind season thus far. And Rachel Glick, you've had such a diverse career.

SPEAKER_04:

You are spot on, Vanessa, that I feel fortunate to be able to be in a position to enable others because I've had so many great leaders enable me in terms of Empowering me. But one thing I do think great leaders do and a model that comes to mind for me and growing kind is one tool that's recession proof that doesn't cost a thing is recognition.

SPEAKER_02:

Oh, gosh. Say that again, Rachel.

SPEAKER_04:

Recognition. It doesn't cost a thing. And when I say recognition, I mean it in two ways. One is the recognition of where we're at, right? The realities of what is current and the uncertainties that people can feel kind of to Annie Rose's beautiful point of adult conversations, how we can invite people in and recognize the reality. And I also think recognition in terms of, hey, I see you working your butt off. I see what you're doing. I see this, which is leading to that. I Thank you so much.

SPEAKER_02:

So I'm so glad that you mentioned taking time off as being one of the things that we can do to recharge ourselves as grow kind people leaders. How else might we care for ourselves as we grow kind? I

SPEAKER_01:

do think that pause taking is critical. And I might also add to that being a fair witness, which might in some ways be a reframe of what Rachel's already been talking about. I think it's just it requires such discipline in times of uncertainty and change to pay equal attention not only to what could be improved, but what's already going well, which is also an opportunity, of course, to kind of extract learnings and learn forward for that matter. Yeah, that's what comes to mind as an example of something that, while very easy to understand, I think is actually quite tough to execute on.

SPEAKER_02:

Yeah, this idea of rotating the spotlight and then also ensuring that you're taking the moment to pause. And this theory, I believe, was popularized by a researcher named Talbin Shahar about the three kinds of breaks. So we have micro, meso, and macro breaks. And we need all of them. So the micro break is just taking a quick moment to yourself. The mezzo break is having some start and stop rituals, like not consistently working forever. And this idea of the macro break, which is taking deep swaths of time to rejuvenate. And I think especially when we're feeling like our noses to the grindstone or that things are not going the way that we need them to at work, that's one of the first things that goes out the door is that acknowledgement that we need breaks and so do our teams. So I'm really glad that you brought this up, Victoria. Annie Rose, what about for you?

SPEAKER_03:

Yeah, being kind to ourselves. Oh, my gosh. I just have to shout out this podcast. I just listened to another podcast, the Prentice Hemphill podcast. I'm forgetting the name, but they interview Alok Oyve. I can't remember all the names, but Alok talks so beautifully about this piece around forgiving oneself for how we've treated ourselves.

SPEAKER_02:

The podcast I'm remembering is called Finding Our Way, and it's Alok Ved Menon. Is that human? So

SPEAKER_03:

two things come to mind. One is, it sounds silly, but just like actually using the tools that we have. Like I know I have all these tools in my back pocket to pause and I teach people how to pause. Do I always pause? No, I do not always pause. And so it really is like this, just like practicing what you preach thing. Like that's one of my number one pieces of advice to myself is that, you know, all the good ideas in the world about growing kind are nothing. It's a nice conversation unless we actually practice them. Yes. Practice. And then just one other thing that's been so important for me, it really connects to what Rachel was saying about the power recognition, which is like, you know, as people leaders, while we're busy recognizing other people, we can not have the opportunity to actually recognize ourselves, including the hard things, the positive things, all of those things that Rachel surfaced. And so really like building your brain trust and my brain trust are like, who are my mentors? Who are my peers that I go to when I'm the one struggling? Right. Talk about it together, right? Or tap into an opportunity like LifeLabs has amazing community opportunities for people leaders to share with other folks who get it. Yeah, absolutely.

SPEAKER_02:

And just a shameless little plug for our people operations and HR professionals that are listening. We're talking about Pops United, which is our Slack community of people operations professionals. Over 4,000 people strong, sharing and supporting one another. And we also have Culture Club, which happens several different times a month in different time zones. So that way we can continue to learn and grow together. Victoria, I also see you having something on the tip of your tongue here. What are you hoping to share?

SPEAKER_01:

Well spotted, Vanessa. I was just going to say what Annie Rose just described. I think it's Yeah. You get that permission in that

SPEAKER_02:

representation, right? The idea that I see therapy on someone's calendar or they're taking time off. I think it's important to role model this behavior so that everyone has that, you know, inspiration to do it differently. And I'm coming back to you, Rachel, for some other Yeah. I

SPEAKER_04:

think what's sticking out for me is as a leader who cares deeply about the experience of, you know, those on our team, the tricky part of any communication or thing that you share is that it will likely be interpreted or reacted to in a variety of different ways. Something that can be very kind for yourself is to know that those interpretations will be varied. and make space for perhaps I can't people please as I people lead. I think that that's a toughie and a tricky one and one that if you can give yourself grace as a leader, that you too are doing the best you can, that will serve you in modeling that others should do the best they can and then give themselves grace as well.

SPEAKER_02:

Yes. And I need to shout out that beautiful little tagline that you dropped in there that I think is worth saying again. We can't people please while we people lead. It's so important because especially as we work at a distance and people are within their own bubbles of their own lived experience, that different interpretations are going to happen. And the best that we can do is offer that space for dialogue if and when it's necessary. I've always been a proponent for conversations around conflict. It's the sexiest way to do it, I think. Last one. So we're about to be wrapping up our time here together, thinking about these growth concepts at the people leader level and going into the future especially since regardless of the circumstance, growing kind is something that we can do at any juncture, at any point in time, as far as our people leader skill sets are concerned. So I'd love to know, and I'm sure our listeners would too, what resources would you suggest for more learning and practice?

SPEAKER_04:

Okay, I'm going to think fast, not hard on this one. Go do something with your hands. I think that like we are a brainy and playful bunch that loves additional tools and learning and resources and to be kind to yourself, sometimes looking away from the screen, being in nature. So you can totally cut this if this is bananas, but

SPEAKER_02:

use your hands. Use your hands. So basically, Get out of your head and get into your body is what I'm hearing. That is what you're hearing. Yeah,

SPEAKER_03:

love that. Annie Rose, what about for you? Well, I just have to follow up with that. If you want some support getting into your body and tapping into your body wisdom, I super recommend Interplay, which is the modality that combines storytelling and body movement and talking and not talking. And it's the school of understanding that I brought out the I Could Talk About, which is the tool I introduced during another podcast episode. And there's just a wealth of ways to help folks tap into their body wisdom and get out of that linear brain space and do it with others and normalize that way of being and just create more space for curiosity.

SPEAKER_02:

Yes. Generating that spaciousness from within. Victoria, what are your thoughts?

SPEAKER_01:

Is it even a conversation with Victoria? Victoria doesn't bring up meditation. And you know, it says something when one starts speaking in the third person. That's how deeply I believe in this. Yeah. So I would say maybe meditation as a way of kind of bridging what we often perceive to be a gap between the mind and the body. But in addition to meditation, I would also say, I love me a good stoic, you all. And Marcus Aurelius' Meditations is a book that I come back to over and over again because of his ability in that text to, I think, model responsiveness over reactivity. And I think it's all the more inspiring that he was a leader with total power, arguably, and that, you know, these thoughts were still very much top of mind for him.

SPEAKER_02:

Oh my gosh. So this has been such a fantastic conversation and we are about to wrap up on this wrap up so what are some final thoughts you'd like to leave with our people leaders listening

SPEAKER_04:

the best way to grow kind is to be kind towards yourself

SPEAKER_01:

thank you let's go over to victoria i think of kindness actually as a verb as a process and not so much a state and because it's a process i think it's one that we can influence one that can change depending on the circumstances so perhaps i think the thought i'll leave everybody with is how might kindness is of process show up for you.

SPEAKER_02:

Love that. Annie Rose, why don't you wrap us up on the wrap

SPEAKER_03:

up? Just vibrating with wisdom from both of those last words. I kind of go back to thinking about the name of the lovely organization that we work with, Life Labs, and the joke we sometimes make, which is like, it's called Life Labs for a reason, right? These people work as well as, you know, in your entire life. And the way that we spend the minutes of our life is how we spend the minutes of our life. And just guess my final thought is is just to say that this is for each of us to have a life that has more kindness in it.

SPEAKER_02:

Annie Rose, Victoria, Rachel, thanks for showing up today and having this conversation with me in the lab. Thank you, Vanessa. This was so fun. Let's do it again.