Episode 48: Behind the scenes of a pitch riff session

In the first couple of weeks of joining TigerBeetle, Peter got together with Alex to discuss TigerBeetle and its positioning. In this dynamic conversation, Alex puts Peter on the spot with the TigerBeetle pitch and provides feedback while also trying his own version! 

As they build the story arc together you'll notice some key elements that can be useful for any pitch:

1. Encapsulating an undeniable trend happening today 
2. Describing the pains companies face while keeping up with that trend
3. Providing a compelling reason why your technology can help with those pains
4. Ending with a strong impact statement around what adopting your tech means for the business

A huge thank you to Joran Greef, Marina Pape, Lewis Daly, and the entire TigerBeetle team for allowing us to use this material and for such a warm welcome to Peter in his first couple of months joining! 

Transcript

Episode 48: TigerBeetle Pitch Riff

[00:00:00]

Welcome to Decoding Sales, a podcast where an engineer. That's Alex Allain and a salesperson. That's me, Peter, Ahn talk about the art and science of sales. Today we're repurposing yet another piece of content. , This is a riff session between Alex and myself where we actually dive deep into the TigerBeetle pitch and the positioning around TigerBeetle.

As many of you know, I just recently joined the team at TigerBeetle to lead their sales and customer experience side of the house, and it's been an absolute joy, , . As it goes with getting started in any new role, you have to really dive into framing, positioning the technology that you're about to sell and introduce into the world.

And so as part of doing that, , . I framed to Alex, , in my words, what. TigerBeetle is and the power of TigerBeetle. [00:01:00] Now this is keep in mind just to give myself a little bit of a break. This is , within a couple weeks of me joining TigerBeetle full time. So the pitch and the story arc will continue to evolve and iterate, but I wanted to share with you all a raw behind the scenes look as to what it feels like going back and forth in rapid fire succession. On the pitch of TigerBeetle as the only purpose-built financial transactions database that can truly support real-time transactions over the next 30 years.

Peter Ahn: So without further ado, , we'll dive in, Alex, will start talking and we'll get into the pitch if you like. This format and you have any thoughts about the pitch or the story arc, definitely do let U.S know at podcasters@decodingsalespodcast.com.

, And we'd of course always appreciate a review, a rating on any of the podcast platforms that you're, listening to this through. So thank you everyone. Hope you enjoy this special shout out to 

Our founder, [00:02:00] Jorn Greef Lewis, our head of Solutions . Marina, our head of marketing and the rest of the Tiger Beetle team.

Peter Ahn: for letting me repurpose this. 

And for being so, so helpful during my onboarding.

Peter Ahn: They've been so gracious in my first couple months and I'm just thrilled to be part of the team.

It's an absolute honor and I'm so, so excited. , To share TigerBeetle with more and more customers As they realize the power of what's under the hood and the special, unique capabilities of this talented team.

I hope you all enjoy this recording.

Alex Allain: part of what we've talked about in the past for like early stage startups that is, is like the importance of like identifying some kind of like technology. Like trend, some, like new thing that is changing. Mm-hmm. The way the businesses work and like in an early stage sales leader, like you gotta actually understand it.

So I, yes. Part of me is like, huh. Maybe we should talk just a little bit about that so people yes. Know enough have enough con, like it's kind of meaningful right. In your decision matrix. Matrix. Like if [00:03:00] you couldn't answer this question, then probably, I'm assuming you would've not said yes to this, this offer.

Yes. Um, so maybe you could just talk a little bit about how you. Thought about that particular aspect of this in relation to other aspects. And, and, and maybe through that it'll come through, like you can share a little bit about it so people have the right context. 

Peter Ahn: Of course. Yeah. Yeah. I appreciate you asking that.

So I think the trend is that, um, you know, real time transactions are only increasing. If you think about, and it's not, when, when you think about transactions, you automatically think about financial transactions. And I mentioned TigerBeetles a financial transactions database, but a lot of workflows have this the same shape, um, as, as a debit credit transfer.

So let me give you an example. Solar now has allowed kind of energy billing to happen in like 15 to 30 minute increments, whereas we're used to actually paying a monthly bill. Right? Mm-hmm. But that has changed drastically, right? And you have like surge pricing during certain hours. So [00:04:00] that's like on the energy side of things.

If you think about Uber, right? Like when you're calling an Uber car, there is an amount of like real time transactions that is happening between consumers and a finite set of cars that are on the, on the docket. Mm-hmm. And, um, and then you think about like financial transactions, like the stock market is a key example of this where there's hundreds of millions of trades happening across the world.

But you know, the interesting thing about that is Nvidia commands like 90% of the trades within the stock market. So when all, when there's all these like people trying to trade stocks, the Nvidia Row in a stock market. Environment is constantly locked. Mm. Because so many people are trying to hit it at the same time, right?

So you have this like combination of high volume of real time transactions increasing. It's only gonna continue. Then you have like a finite set of rows within a database that are [00:05:00] constantly hit these like hot accounts. And so there's this perfect kind of storm of pain happening for the engineers, the folks who are maintaining the infrastructure of trying to actually shuttle these transactions around.

Right? So that's the, that's the trend. The problem is that if you think about Postgres, right? So you know when Postgres was invented first, it's like the. Like it's pretty old, right? Enterprise database. Right. And like most databases today, general purpose databases are SQL based. Mm-hmm. Right. And yeah, you're right, it's pretty old.

So Postgres is a 39-year-old technology. It was invented the year I was born, 1986. And if you think about hardware. Back when Postgres was invented, it was very different from hardware. Today you're talking, you know, like chip sizes mm-hmm. Were a lot bigger. It was a lot slower. Um, folks didn't believe that things could get transacted as quickly as they could through like these tiny chips now, right?

Mm-hmm. And so the design principles of the database were. [00:06:00] Created based off of concepts that Postgres and sql. Mm-hmm. Codified. Right? And so what does that mean? It means, now going back to the real time transaction story, and sorry, this is becoming long. I might cut out and edit some of this, but hopefully you're still following me.

Mm-hmm. Like to do a single credit. Debit transaction in something like the stock market or like solar energy billing, or even like a gaming platform where you have like transactions going on through like the gaming economy. Um, it takes like two to 10 SQL queries to complete a single transaction, right?

Because the, um, app has to call to the database and say, okay, does Alex have enough funds? Yada, yada. And then it has to call back and say, okay, this p is Peter ready to receive the funds? There's all this, these like SQL queries that happen. Now what Joran and the team has. Created is a way to actually batch 8,000 transfers into a single CPU loop versus [00:07:00] having to go back and forth two to 10 times or even 20 times.

Do 

Alex Allain: you mean a single SQL query or a se single transaction CPU Loop doesn't make sense. That's not a thing. 

Peter Ahn: Yeah. So a single like query? Yeah, exactly. Mm-hmm. Like where you're able to batch 8,000 of these into a single.. CPU Loop. Like a single trip around from like the app to the database.

Alex Allain: Single round trip to the database. Yeah. Okay. Yeah, exactly 

Peter Ahn: right. And so because they're, because CHIPS now are highly performant where you can actually do this. Mm-hmm. You, you can actually go from a world where maybe at most you could. You could have like thousands of transactions per second with your application.

Now you can design for a world where you can, um, confidently, safely do a million transactions per second, right? And so that's what really drew me in. And I think that kind of trend means that a lot of these FinTech companies, banks, and any company that has this shape of real time transaction. Is [00:08:00] rooted right now in legacy technology.

Mm-hmm. In terms of the database layer. And so I'm excited to introduce the tiger beetle kind of technical concepts as well as also kind of how we actually go to market, obviously, which is why I'm joining. Mm-hmm. But anyways, I'll stop there. 

Alex Allain: Yeah. Do you think you could do that again and do it in like three sentences?

Peter Ahn: The trend that I'm excited about with TigerBeetle is that real time transactions across the world and across different types of businesses in is increasing not only like financial transactions. If you think about like consumer wallets, we now like expect funds to show up in our account instantly, but also with other use cases.

For example, with solar energy. Now you expect to be charged on like 15 to 30 minute increments versus monthly. So if you think about the sheer volume of transactions happening across businesses, it's only increasing. The problem is that a lot of those transactions are powered by and are facilitated by [00:09:00] databases that are very, very old.

A lot of these are general purpose, SQL based databases that just are not efficient, um, considering the. The, the hardware improvements that have happened right from the eighties up until now. And so TigerBeetle is allowing companies to take advantage of those hardware improvements and has designed, uh, OLTP financial transactions database that is more purpose built to, to actually safely and quickly allow for these financial transactions to happen to the tune of like a million transactions per second versus like thousands if you were to leverage old school databases.

Mm-hmm. So, so that's really kind of what, what the trend is that I'm excited about. 

Alex Allain: Can I try doing it in three sentences? 

Peter Ahn: Sure. Yeah, yeah, yeah. 

Alex Allain: I just wanna see if I can do this. 

Peter Ahn: Yeah. 

Alex Allain: So, so well, how many 

Peter Ahn: sentences was that? Was that like, say I stopped 

Alex Allain: counting after like, yeah. 

Peter Ahn: Okay.

Alex Allain: So we live in a world where realtime transactions are increasing [00:10:00] massively because it makes the economy like far more efficient and allows you to save money, for example. And, uh, electric costs. If your bill hourly, the problem is all the databases that we used to do this weren't designed for this kind of like real time processing.

And in particular, many of these transactions require making edits to a central resource. For example, in the stock market, a lot of trades are on the in, on Nvidia, like 90%, which means that that particular individual row needs an enormous number of edits. Every second. Databases can do thousands. TigerBeetle can do millions.

Which means that you can scale these real time transactions by an enormous factor, which allows many more people to take advantage of them and save enormous cost at the same time. 

Peter Ahn: That's pretty good. Yeah. Yeah. Still like seven or eight sentences I would say. I had a 

Alex Allain: lot of commas and semicolons. Peter, I promise you if I wrote that out, it would be three sentences.

Peter Ahn: That was good. That was really good though. Actually. I think the combination of the two would be good. Do you want me to try it again? 

Alex Allain: Okay. Well, yeah. Why don't [00:11:00] you do like your version, like a, another version? How, how would you talk about it based on how I talked about it? I'm 

Peter Ahn: gonna try and brutally prioritize it this time.

Yeah. So I might like leave out a lot of things. I think that's actually the right move. I, I might not like it, but let me, let me give it a shot. Right.

So the trend is that real time transactions are increasing, um. Enormously across the world, right? People expect funds to show up immediately. When you call for an Uber ride, we expect it to be there within the minutes and know who the driver is within seconds. The problem is the database is powering.

These real time transactions can't keep up, and so what TigerBeetle is doing is it's using hardware concepts of today to help you transact at a scale of millions of transactions per second. Whereas old school databases can help you do thousands. A second. 

Alex Allain: That's pretty good. That's pretty good. The only thing I would like add to that actually.

Yeah, I would probably talk about the thousands when I talk about the problem and I say, yeah, 

Peter Ahn: that's a good, good pause. Instead of it being like an A [00:12:00] footnote after. 

Alex Allain: Yeah. I think that that like thousands to millions is like where you're getting like a lot of the like, oh, there's something there. If you're like right now, like databases, the average database can only do thousands of these transactions a second, which means that it's really hard and bespoke and challenging to build these systems.

You know, something like that. I thought that was way too many words, but like I think there's something there. Totally. I like that this is maybe more of an investor pitch than a customer pitch at this point, but you know what I'm saying? Like I feel like that's Sure, 

Peter Ahn: sure, sure. Yeah. Yeah. But it's still, I think, yeah, I think investor pitch is more 

Peter Ahn: closer to like broadly applicable.

Alex Allain: Yeah, exactly. Our listeners are not going to be like, yeah, they're not all gonna 

Peter Ahn: be customers or understand like the true shape of the problem. 

Alex Allain: Exactly. Exactly. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. 

Peter Ahn: Okay. Okay, cool. Cool. Do you want me to try it one more time? 

Alex Allain: Yeah, sure. Why not?

Peter Ahn: The shape of the problem is real-time transactions are increasing enormously across multiple types of [00:13:00] businesses. If you think about, um, the stock market, there's more trades happening than ever. Accounts like Nvidia account for 90% of the trade. So there's a lot of contention and issues with trying to like actually scalably, um, offer a seamless experience there.

And then when you think about solar energy, we're now used to being charged on 15 to 30 minute increments versus monthly. The problem is that the databases underlying these real time transactions can only keep up to the tune of thousands of transactions per second. Even if you were to. Horizontally scale your databases.

And what TigerBeetle has found is that that's just unacceptable. Unacceptable, especially considering how much the hardware has improved today. And so they've actually developed a purpose-built financial transactions database that can process millions of transactions per second to help businesses run a thousand times faster.

Alex Allain: I think you're saying your previous version was better. That one got a little bit like flabby, a 

Peter Ahn: little wordy, 

Alex Allain: right? Yeah. I think 

Peter Ahn: the beginning was like not [00:14:00] very, yeah. 

Alex Allain: You got, you tripped over it. Like when you got into the like Nvidia thing, it was like, oh, it's all downhill from here. 

Peter Ahn: Yeah. Can I try it one more time actually?

Yeah, yeah, yeah. It's actually pretty fun. Okay. I might even just use it as a YouTube 

Alex Allain: video. Yeah. Yeah. This might turn into more of a YouTube thing than a podcast. Yeah. Yeah. But you know what, I think this is, I do think this is fun. 

Peter Ahn: I mean like, yeah, it, it's fun and it also shows like sales leaders don't have the silver bullet.

Yeah, right away, you know, um, or maybe it shows that I don't have skill. I don't know. But anyways, okay.

The trend that's happening right now is that real time transactions are increasing enormously across all types of business. Businesses and industries. Um, if you think about the, um, age of like FinTech companies now, we expect funds to show up immediately within our eWallets. When we call an Uber, we expect the car to show up quickly and to know who our drivers is within seconds.

But the problem is that the underlying database is trying to keep up with these real-time transactions are based off of legacy concepts [00:15:00] that were invented in the eighties and nineties. And so if you extrapolate that to performance. A lot of these databases can only do thousands of transactions per second, even if you were to optimize, um, and horizontally scale these databases.

And so what TigerBeetle has done, what Joran has done, the founder is figured out a way to design the database purpose built for today's hardware principles where you can actually now design for a world where. You can safely transact a million transactions per second versus thousands to help your business run a thousand times faster.

Alex Allain: Pretty good. Can I try one more actually? Yeah. Go for it. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Okay. I, I think I have a way to say this. That's pretty good.

So what's happening in the world today is we have all of these new products and services that are basically real time, and to make real time services work, you need real time transactions and like take an Uber or realtime solar pricing, things like [00:16:00] that. Now the way that those systems work, they need to do enormously high volumes of transactions.

But the databases that people use to do that only can support on the order of a few thousand transactions a second. And so every company that's building these systems needs an entire engineering team designed to scale up those transactions. It's expensive, it's error prone, and it's very challenging.

What TigerBeetle has done is they have recognized that due to advances in hardware since these. Legacy databases were built that are being used by these companies. There are new ways to architect that transaction processing system that gets you native support for millions instead of thousands of transactions per second, which means new businesses can start from scratch without having to build an enormous hardware in hardware and infrastructure footprint in order to achieve this the same scale.

Peter Ahn: Oh, I love that. I love the last part of which means. The impact statement. Yeah. That's really, really good. Okay. Yeah. I, I think part, doing this exercise, I think like [00:17:00] the three sentences thing doesn't do it justice. Yeah. Is not what I'm realizing, you know, but you kind of need the, the like, push. There's a Yes.

There's a way the story r happens that can be a lot more concise. 

Alex Allain: Yeah. You know, I think it's really three bullet points. 

Peter Ahn: It is, it is. There's like a, here's what's happening, here's the problem and here's a solution. 

Alex Allain: Here's why 

Peter Ahn: this. 

Alex Allain: Yeah. 

Peter Ahn: And here's the impact of getting to that solution faster. Yeah. 

Alex Allain: Right.

Exactly. Okay. I 

Peter Ahn: want to try it one more time 'cause you gave me like a lot of inspiration. 

Alex Allain: Great. Go for it.

Peter Ahn: Okay. So here's what's happening today. Here's a trend. There's. A lot more products that are being released where real time transactions is a foundational component of that product, right? So you think about Ubers, you expect to know your driver pretty much instantly. Um, when you're calling your car, uh, when you're doing stock market trades, this batch transaction world where you wait a day to see what's cleared.

Is increasingly becoming unacceptable, especially with eWallet companies that allow you to [00:18:00] transact immediately. And then with things like solar billing, um, now we're used to seeing things on a 15 to 30 minute increment, whereas in the past, we maybe were getting a monthly bill. The problem with that trend is that the underlying databases can't keep up to the tune of being able to maybe do thousands of transactions per second.

Whereas the need is for millions of transactions per second, and it's because a lot of these databases were invented when hardware principles were very, very different. If you think about the chip in the eighties and nineties, it's very different from the power of the chip today. Right. Things are getting smaller and more performant.

And so what TigerBeetle has done is they've reinvented and re-architected the database from the ground up to actually support a world where you could safely transact a million transactions per second versus thousands. And the implication of that is that you don't need this heavyweight upfront investment in infrastructure and a huge [00:19:00] footprint.

To be able to keep up with that speed, you can actually start to, um, create a solution that's purpose built for real time transactions and launch products faster while still ensuring that your costs don't skyrocket. 

Alex Allain: Yeah, it's pretty good. 

Peter Ahn: I, I think there's still more tightening, but. I think that that shape with like, yeah, 30% less words would be, 

Alex Allain: I wanna, yeah.

I have two thoughts. One is, I don't know if you need all three examples in the first section. Mm-hmm. And two, can I just, I think that it actually would make sense to pull into the problem the existing solutions are bespoke and expensive because clearly like Uber exists, the problem is Yeah, yeah, yeah.

You're right. Right? Yeah. Right. And 

Peter Ahn: Coinbase. And Robinhood, 

Alex Allain: yeah. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. So let me try something. 

Peter Ahn: Okay, cool, cool.

Alex Allain: So we live in a world where, mm-hmm. Transactions and interactions are increasingly becoming like real time things like calling an Uber and getting a driver instantaneously. Now those, there are, so there are tons of those transactions, there are like millions of those happening in real time [00:20:00] around in some cases.

And the problem is the databases of the present by de kind of naturally only support. Thousands of these transactions. So all of these companies that handle real time transaction processing have to overcome this enormous hurdle of building their own bespoke solutions to this problem, this transaction problem.

Mm-hmm. It's expensive. It costs a lot of money, a lot of hardware, a lot of engineers. What TigerBeetle has realized is rather than building a unique bespoke solutions, they can go deeper down the stack and re-architect the database to take advantage of modern chip technology. That has improved since the original core databases that people are building on.

Were built to shift from a world where the default is thousands to where the default is, the ability to process millions of transactions per second. What this means is that all of those existing companies become legacy infrastructure. They either need to upgrade and save a ton of money on their existing infrastructure.

Or new competitors can use tools like TigerBeetle to undercut their costs and massively outperform [00:21:00] them because they can use many fewer engineers and many fewer re hardware resources to get the same or better results. 

Peter Ahn: Dude, that is killer. I love this. Can we do like a couple more runs, like for a couple more minutes?

We got like five 

Alex Allain: minutes. Why not Just like, 

Peter Ahn: okay. Okay, cool. Let's just keep, this is hard stuff, you know. Okay. So I'm gonna try and condense your feedback and use what you just said. Okay. So here we go.

So the need for real-time transactions to really make sure your businesses run fast and you're able to ship products that have revenue implications. Okay, let me start over again. Um, 'cause I, what I was trying to do there is see if I could talk about the impact in the beginning too. 

Alex Allain: Yeah. Oh, I have an idea for you customers and, and society as a whole is increasingly expecting real time information.

This is good. Yeah. And that means real time transactions. You wanna get an Uber, you can't, you're not waiting a day. You are waiting seconds for that driver. 

Peter Ahn: Yes. I like that. Okay. Okay. Let try and go it out. Oh, sorry. Did you wanna continue? No. You [00:22:00] okay. Take it.

So customers. Across multiple industries are now expecting real time answers and transactions. So you think about an Uber, you're not waiting minutes even to see who your driver is. You expect that within seconds. If you think about the leading FinTech eWallet companies, you're able to actually now transfer funds pretty immediately.

The problem is the underlying databases that are trying to keep up with these realtime transactions. The core databases were invented in an era where the hardware chip was vastly different, and so a lot of these companies. Have invested a ton of bespoke resources, um, to try and make databases of the eighties and nineties keep up with this pace of real-time transactions.

What TigerBeetle. And that costs a lot of money, a lot of time, and a lot of engineers. Now what TigerBeetle has done is they've realized this is a huge problem and so have re-architected the database from the bottom up, um, from the ground up, I should say, from the chip [00:23:00] up. From the chip up. And have created a solution where you can now actually safely, um, transact millions of transactions per second.

They've created a database that is designed for that world, whereas the databases of the past maybe can, at most to. Thousands of transactions per second. And so the implications of companies leveraging tiger Beetle is that they don't have to have a massive infrastructural footprint to keep up with real time transactions.

And in fact, even compared to. Incumbent FinTech or finance or realtime companies, they can actually move even faster and produce a even more performant experience for their customers who, who, like I said at the beginning, are increasingly demanding. Real time. Yeah. Something like that maybe, 

Alex Allain: right? I think that's getting in the direction.

I have a few quick thoughts. One is the safer thing always. You say that, and I know that's really important and like a lot of TigerBeetle stuff is on that. Yeah, it, I would either cut it or introduce that early on and say like. You know, [00:24:00] and by the way, this bespoke infrastructure, it's still one of the reasons it's so hard is people need to make sure these transactions are correct.

Peter Ahn: Yes, yes. I like what you said about error prone. I think that's a good way to actually introduce that. Yeah, because that's the other side of safer. Yeah, because like. With sql. You can, it's not, it's immutable database. It's not an immutable database. This is awesome, man. This is so fun. I appreciate it, 

Alex Allain: dude.

I really like the, like just calling all the existing players who aren't using TigerBeetle, like legacy giants who are like gonna be hunted down. 

Peter Ahn: Yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah. That was really good actually. I, I thought that was 

Alex Allain: like really good. I think you should figure out how to work that in. 

Peter Ahn: Oh yeah. I do like that.

Like, they're gonna have to, this is an inevitable shift that they're gonna have to address. 

Alex Allain: Like their cost structure will just be like worse. 

Peter Ahn: Yes, yes, yes. Okay. Okay. And 

Alex Allain: more error prone, which means they can't innovate as fast, which means that they have to deal with problems rather than like investing in the next like wave of techno.

I mean, it basically means they can't innovate as fast, [00:25:00] fundamentally. Yeah. And they 

Peter Ahn: can't ship products. Right. And they can't ship. 'cause all these companies have like different products that they wanna launch. 

Alex Allain: Yeah. 

Peter Ahn: Right. Most of 'em have like this core ledger that that needs to be accurate. Right? Yeah. 

Alex Allain: I do think it's also like, I would maybe just hammer home a little bit more like everyone expects this.

Peter Ahn: Yeah, yeah, yeah. 

Alex Allain: You're right. You're right. You, I think you kind of did actually, but 

Peter Ahn: Yeah. But there's like, uh, I would just, I would 

Alex Allain: just hang onto that point, I think. 

Peter Ahn: Sure, sure. Yeah. Like real time is all around U.S. 

Alex Allain: Real time is all around U.S and it's only going to get more real time. We, it is just that we haven't thought about the under the hood 

Peter Ahn: architecture that powers that.

Alex Allain: Yeah. And it's really hard to do that. Yeah, TigerBeetle makes it really easy. So we have a bunch of legacy players plus a greenfield for people to develop on. That's like new. 

Peter Ahn: Amazing. Well, I know you have a hard stop. This was fun, man. This took an unexpected turn, but actually this was a real, 

Alex Allain: a real unexpected turn.

I, I like this stuff though. I mean, it was kind of like, how did Alex and Peter grapple with, like, you know, describing something. I don't know how interesting it'll be to other people, but it was fun. 

Peter Ahn: I, I thought it was fun. Yeah. I got something out of it. Yeah, same. Same. Yeah. I got [00:26:00] more 

Alex Allain: excited about Tiger Beetle.

Peter Ahn: Good. Oh good. Okay. So I kind of partially did my job, even though it came out as a jumble in the beginning. 

Alex Allain: Yeah. I also think that like giving a little time to breathe and like writing some bullet points, I'm almost like, yeah, I bet you could really write like some killer bullet points. 

Peter Ahn: I think so, yeah.

And Joran says this where like he like loves this concept of simmering. Yeah. Like simmering on a topic. 

Alex Allain: Yeah. 

Peter Ahn: Right. And like I like that because it. It like kind of takes the pressure away from like having the golden nuggets like up upfront. Exactly. And as you can see, like I'm kind of like evolving my Yeah.

Perspectives on the product, which that's my excuse for my first pitch being jumbled. 

Alex Allain: That's, I mean, I threw it at you off the, off the cuff too, so, 

Peter Ahn: no, I love it. I love it. Cool. Although I guess you should be able 

Alex Allain: to do that at some point. No, I should. I should. I 

Peter Ahn: really should. But it's like there's so many like Easter eggs and nuggets in the technology.

Yeah. That sometimes it's like. A lot hard to, how do you distill 

Alex Allain: it down is like Yeah. Always really interesting.

[00:27:00]