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Kelly Paxton: And the biggest one recently is the Investigators Mindset like, can you tell us how you started that? You have this strategy: I'm going to do this Investigator’s Mindset or did it just come organically.
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Lloydette Bai-Marrow: It really did come organically, I was thinking about different approaches to my content, and because some of the stuff that I've done on Linkedin or certified your LinkedIn is pretty heavy and you know you're talking about technical aspects of the law you're talking about new law. Like deferred prosecution agreements and the technicalities and reach agreement.
And those can be quite heavy heavy lifting for those who are reading that we live in this generation, where I think people like to consume information in smaller bite-sized pieces.
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Lloydette Bai-Marrow: And you really get to understand their approach, but also, I think I'm a good lawyer, but I also I think fit the bill of a good investigator I think I've struggled with those two worlds very well.
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Lloydette Bai-Marrow: And so yeah I kind of get it I just get it, I know of what they're thinking.
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Lloydette Bai-Marrow: How to navigate the investigation space and what the challenges are that we as investigators often face.
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Lloydette Bai-Marrow: As well as the pitfalls that sometimes we can fall into by virtue of our own actions.
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Kelly Paxton: Psychological safety.
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Lloydette Bai-Marrow: Wow yeah that post, you know, I was on my way to a meeting this morning and I was thinking about just reflecting on everything that's been going on down here.
And it really did resonate with me about how do we create environments where those that we lead and those that we manage can make mistakes safely and that seems almost as if it's an oxymoron but it's not.
Because we as leaders and those who are responsible for teams really have to start to think again about how we create our environments to be safe.
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Lloydette Bai-Marrow: Because even in the ethics and compliance world, and I think chief compliance officers, you know head of compliance head of ethics, the whole lot.
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Lloydette Bai-Marrow: And I'm not saying that people aren't whistleblowers are not supposed to be saints.
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Lloydette Bai-Marrow: I was speaking, some of the other day, and I said that we talked about this, and they said listen look at the information that the whistleblower is providing you with.
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Lloydette Bai-Marrow: rather than looking at the whistleblower themselves, their character their personality their background absolutely look at that later stage.
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Lloydette Bai-Marrow: But first of all look at the integrity of what they have provided you with in terms of the information.
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Lloydette Bai-Marrow: Let that be your first focus and I think it really challenged me because, as investigators as well is often the first thing that we do.
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Lloydette Bai-Marrow: is to look at the whistleblowers background let's see who this person is.
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Lloydette Bai-Marrow: let's see what their motivations are let's see what their criminal record is like let's see they've been having an affair in the office and let's find the things that the skeletons in their closets.
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Lloydette Bai-Marrow: Look at what they're telling you and look at see if it holds water see if it's valid and if it's valid taking a moment with it absolutely investigate them check them out later, but don't do that, first, because often when you do that, first, you discount everything else.
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Kelly Paxton: Okay, but I kind of think throwing the whistleblower under the bus is just the easiest thing to do.
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Lloydette Bai-Marrow: It is. It is and it's all natural default.
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Lloydette Bai-Marrow: Is our natural default and that's something that we have to switch and that's why I think these discussions, and these.
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Lloydette Bai-Marrow: This focus that I think has moved to enter whistleblowing moser and I think you've seen the same thing you know the discussion and the debates and the discourse around the importance of whistleblowers has really shifted I think in the last.