Hi, we're the good ship illustration. And we run online courses to help illustrators and image makers navigate a creative career. We are Tania, Katie and Helen, we have about 70 years experience between us, each of us working in a different area of illustration. Welcome to message in a bottle of our new podcast answering your questions, you can send your messages to Goodshipillo@gmail.com. And title it 'message in a bottle'. So we know what it's about this podcast episode is another juicy question. This time it's from Jean Jin Ji and you know, Dr. Jean Regan. How do you know when you found yourself and how do you continue have the confidence to continue even though you don't know if you ever receive anyone's stamp of approval so you can get work? Thank you. Gee, this is a good one. I don't think I've ever had a stamp. Well, what is the yarmulke of approval? What is the candidate published in a big old stamp? Yes, I suppose it is. The publisher said Your work is great. Yeah. So So what are stamps of approval? Oh, my God, I've gotten a qualification okay to make a good chip stamp. Yeah. Awesome. Like real stamp of approval is that you might feel cheap somewhere when you've got like an award or a qualification or be published or have an exhibition. People get addicted to qualifications? Because then they've got masters and doctorate? Yeah, I think and they haven't done the thing. Yeah. Are they? Yeah, they don't actually go practice it. I mean, really, the whole art education is an area where the qualification has been nothing, you know, said yesterday is two weeks to my daughter's degree show, and the inevitable meltdowns stress around what's happening. And I said to her, no one ever asks you what you got for your degree? It, it has no bearing on anything, the mere fact that you've been through three years of design education, and you've learned something, that's all that matters. And the work that you produced is judged, and stands on its own terms by potential employees. So what does the qualification mean? And so many people are doing standalone online courses? You know, quality qualifications mean, less than less? Has anybody ever asked you what your qualifications are in the world of publishing, and nobody's ever asked me only in teaching, when you go to teach is the only time and then they because when I was teaching, they were like, Oh, you've got a master's degree, you can teach. I don't teach you. But I mean, I've done a Masters so I could help people. It's always the same in ours, because you've done a masters. You can teach but you think, but I've never done a masters and I taught and it's all made up. It's definitely a new published book. So that was your, you know, yeah. You've got industry experience, and you've worked with people that's almost more revered. But all of us started without any of those things. All of a start, like I started with not like when I was a child, I was a girl and she's like, we all start somewhere. You don't have to have a stamp of approval to get there, do you? And we would we often talk about this, don't worry about how long have humans been making art compared to how long have universities existed and art courses existed? Humans have made art long before we had art schools. So you don't really need a stamp of approval. And in the 19th century, people would go to artists selves to learn. So they'd spend, say, six months in the painters workshop with two other artists are in their studio and paint a bit. It's almost a bit like illustration, because it's just quick dips in and out. I mean, there were there were articles, but they weren't as all encompassing as they are now. But yeah, there's so many unpublish, so I couldn't autodidact certainly, there are so many illustrators now that didn't go to illustration course, didn't go to art school. There are so many great illustrators out there who haven't been near design education. And some people come out of an art school even more confused than when they got there. So it's not always the route to success, you can come out completely baffled and frozen and can't work anymore. So I think the thing is, it's so human to crave being chosen isn't for somebody to be like, too late to the magic so and be like you are a good illustrator. Now, here's proof that you can show everyone. Yeah, I remember one of my first psychotherapy sessions, years and years and years ago, I'm one of the very first ones I ever had bursting into tears and saying, Yeah, but the thing is, like, I've always been the brainy one but as I know qualifications to do, and I don't know, I don't know. I don't know what I am if I don't do any more. And you said that Yeah, yeah. You different Helen. Yeah, I was in a real mess, a real mess. And yeah, That's when I learned that you don't need to carry on doing that you're fine without that. You just be yourself. Yeah, it's natural to create to crave validation, and especially in the beginning of an illustration career. And people say, Why do you get clients? How do you find jobs? You say, Why don't you just write to everyone in the whole world publishes in any form or has a magazine, or and it's just totally overwhelming. You think, who do I target? How do I begin? And I remember a friend saying to me, once he was a filmmaker, he said, he had suggested that his daughter who was doing something in the arts, she should start at a grassroot grassroots or community level, and work with people use her skills within the community. And my initial thought, as we mentioned earlier, post Boomer Gen X was like, why would you do that? There's no money in it. And it's just local people, blah, blah, was such an awful thing to say. But actually, the more I thought about it, he was right, if you work with people, especially in early stage career, and they print the work, as long as you insist on creative freedom, because you don't want to be exploited, especially if you're not being paid much. If you're using this to have something printed and have the experience of working with people on a project, then you need to be sure that you've got that freedom. But at the end, when things are printed, and you start to work with people, and you're recommended by the community, you start to get some kind of self validation. I think it counts for a lot. And especially when you are connected to the project you've seen it works or helps, as opposed to just sending off another illustration for a magazine that only lasts for a month, and you have a real connection to it. So there's something to be said for that is that thing of choosing yourself as well, isn't it like if you it's not acted as if you're not faking it, but if you choose yourself and create projects that you're really excited and proud of? That's infectious, and then other people see that you're making work that you love, and you know, they can sense the joy in it and the passion, and then you will get chosen. Yeah, it builds your confidence and people can feel your confidence, and then they treat you with respect because of your competence. And it all builds up. Whereas if you're like, oh, nobody's ever chosen me in just a little aspiring illustrator. Yeah, that's the thing we always talk about on Instagram, isn't it when people feel as if they're not allowed to say they're in Illustrator yet? So they're like we baby Scribbler. Yeah, yeah, it's like apologizing for yourself. Yeah, I like that idea. So So make it make your own work. Yeah. So and like now, there's never been a better time because it's the internet exists. There's no law, there's very few gatekeepers, you can self publish stuff, if you really want to do you can make ziens and just print them. And, you know, it's a DIY culture. But the modern 2023 version, you don't need the gatekeeper and publisher anymore. This is what I'm so excited. I know, I keep talking about substack. All the time. I love it. I'm so excited about it, because there are people on there writing novels. And they're right, they don't have a publisher. So they're writing a chapter every week or every month, whatever, like Dickens used to do. And it's behind a paywall, and people are paying for it as it comes out. And then when they've written the whole novel, they can make a printed version, then they can sell it on substep you don't need a publisher to give you permission to do it. And it's the same for illustrators, the possibilities of what you could make, you know, you could make part of a picture book and release it gradually over a long time or zines. And then you know, when you built up an audience and people are enjoying it, you can then sell publish it and sell it that was you don't need a publisher. I like the way that that kind of gives you a deadline as well, if it's weekly, yeah. People are expecting it. Yeah, we're not just doing it for yourself is going out as well. So if you just cut a huge task down into kind of the salami slice, and you work your way through a big old book project, or some some other kind of 100 day project, just by doing it was weak, and other people say it, all the small things accumulate into something much larger if you commit to it. Yeah, yeah. Oh, and there's the thing about making your own certificate I like totally make a seal of approval. Yeah, we could have that as our Instagram post to go with this podcast. We approve of you could be chosen congratulations. I think everyone should use it to watermark every illustration they do. And the pitch ships making your certificate as like my master's degree economy, expensive smarties tube, because it is in a tube. Like a giant pack of Smarties. Ah, so you can totally make your work so we could do we could go and buy some Smarties. Get a piece of paper inside it. Right you qualification in it, stick it in his mind you tie a ribbon around it. I've never done a regular degree certificate you say yes I'm qualified. People can't really cross about this little name because it is it's like oh, you know I remember made a video about it. And somebody was like, Well, what if it was a promo? You can't just say you're a plumber. That's that whole thing, isn't it? Yeah. But that's the whole point about the arts. You can you can you know, everyone going back to the punk era, so many people made themselves in that era. And so it's come again, you go to the v&a and look at punk culture, there's all the fanzines, they're now being venerated as an amazing piece of graphic design, because they were just made in someone's bedroom in 1976. So that's living proof, just do what you want to do. And if it's good enough, it rises to the top. If it doesn't, it still exists. And that's all that matters. So because podcasts I think it's salt. That's it solved. Yeah. Hey, everybody. Seal of Approval. Yes. create things. Yeah. Keep an eye on Instagram so you can get your download. We'll see that approval soon. Bye bye.