The Good Ship Illustration

You’ll Never Feel Ready. Do It Anyway. An interview with Good Shipper Amber Au.

• The Good Ship Illustration • Season 12 • Episode 13

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0:00 | 23:56

What a treat of an episode! Today we’re chatting with Good Shipper and picture book author–illustrator Amber Au.

Amber talks about how drawing became part of her recovery from an eating disorder and how her therapist encouraged her to send her illustration work to her first ever client. Aaand how - in two whirlwind months - she was suddenly winning awards, signing a three-book deal, and being invited to meet editors at Bologna. Whaaa!?

What a blimmin' brilliant reminder to do the things. Even when you don't feel "ready". 

In this episode we cover:

  • How Amber rediscovered drawing through her food diary
  • Why starting with your local community can snowball into big opportunities
  • How to survive mixed feedback 
  • Competitions, and finding your people
  • Being a self-taught illustrator
  • Discipline, rest, and cultural expectations
  • Picture books, packaging, and branching out into multiple income streams
  • Amber's Bologna experience… including editors fangirling over her work (!)

Rough Timestamps

00:00 – Introducing Amber and her illustration journey
01:00 – Awards, exhibitions, and feeling overwhelmed
02:00 – From nutritionist → illustrator → private tutor → illustrator again
03:00 – Using a food diary as a creative lifeline
04:00 – Getting encouraged to approach her first client
05:00 – Community, grassroots beginnings, and early work in Hong Kong
06:00 – Entering competitions and the door-opening magic that followed
07:00 – The leap from self-taught to picture book maker
08:00 – Finding a clear voice without formal training
09:00 – Discipline, rest, and the cultural pressure to always “do more”
10:00 – Blue Tomato beginnings
11:00 – Mixed reviews, conflicting opinions, and staying true to your vision
13:00 – Bologna meetings and signing with Little Tiger
15:00 – Knowing which advice is actually useful
17:00 – Copying as learning vs developing your own voice
18:00 – Style influences: Hong Kong comics, European picture books, texture, mark-making
19:00 – Procreate, iPad life, and her work habits
20:00 – Diversifying income: packaging, food illustration, prints
21:00 – New opportunities, restaurants, markets, and thinking strategically
22:00 – Picture books, nonfiction, and future plans
23:00 – Final encouragement: “You’ll never feel ready. Do it anyway.”

Links & things mentioned


p.s. We have a little rest at this time of year, so the podcast is having a rest too. We'll be back in January! 🎁

Come and say hello!

✏️ @thegoodshipillustration
🌏 www.thegoodshipillustration.com

p.s. We love answering your illustration questions. Click here to submit your question for The Good Ship Illustration Podcast 🎙

Dec 2 - Amber
===

​[00:00:00] 

Amber: I'm here with one of our students, Amber Au, ~um, ~Amber's, a picture book author and illustrator. She's originally from Hong Kong, but she's now been living ~in Hong, ~in the UK for a while. ~And ~she does amazing books centered around food. ~There's lots of stuff about food, but ~she also draws maps ~and ~buildings and people from various countries.

~Um, ~she has been on a few of our courses, but she's also. On top of that, won some amazing, ~um, ~prizes and awards because she's had a three book deal recently, which we'll talk more about later. ~And ~she was, ~um, ~an exhibition ~fi ~finalist for the Bologna Children's book Fair ~for ~this year. So we're gonna see her work one week.

[00:01:00] And meet up when we go to the book Fair. We'll all be there. ~That's good shippers. ~We've got our own stall at Bologna. ~Um, ~Amber has actually got some work in the exhibition and she's a finalist. She's also had her work in, ~um, ~the World Illustration Awards where she was highly commended.

She's a picture hooks illustration, competition runner upper, and in 2024, she also had work in the illustrated. The Bologna Children's Book Fair, ~um, ~exhibition finalist. So she was a finalist. ~Yeah, sorry, not in the actual exhibition, but as a finalist. And you've also had work inus as well, haven't you?~

Tanya: Yes, ~I.~

Amber: This was like all of that is 23 to 25. So in two years is.

Tanya: Yes, it happened quite quickly. And you know, ~I'm, ~I really, ~I don't know how to take all these com uh, compliment. I ~don't take compliment well. So, ~uh, ~I was quite overwhelmed when I got all the awards and stuff 'cause it happens ~in, in two months. I would say ~within two months. ~Yeah.~

Amber: No wonder you felt overwhelmed

Tanya: yes.

Amber: and like prior to that you'd been building up your illustration career. ~Maybe we should go back to the be beginning. ~I read from your bio that you are, ~uh, ~self-taught. You didn't do illustration as a [00:02:00] degree.

Tanya: ~Um, no. ~So, ~uh, ~I love drawing since I was small, but I. Took on the science path. ~So ~I study human nutrition when I was in uni, and then I trained as a nutritionist. Yes.

Amber: ~And, ~and you did some illustration ~though ~while you were in Hong Kong, didn't you? Looking at your Instagram and ~that ~your blogs, you've worked in Hong Kong as an illustrator.

Tanya: ~Uh, ~just for a short period of time.

~Um, ~it happens after I quit as an nutritionist because, yeah, so my story is actually, so how did I start drawing? ~It's, um, so I suffered, I, ~I suffered from my eating disorder and then I. to see, ~uh, ~my therapist and then I will have to do, you know, we have to mark down what, what do we eat every day and every meal.

~And then ~I found it really boring just writing books down. So I start doodling next to my, ~um, ~food diary. Yeah. So it's how I all started drawing again after 20 years, I would [00:03:00] say.

Amber: So after that, when you left your nutrition course, ~and then did you, ~is that when you moved to the uk?

Tanya: ~Um, no. So, uh, ~I finished my uni in the u in the uk and then I go back to Hong Kong and as a nutritionist for two.

But then I hated the culture and ~then ~the industry ~as well. ~So I quit. ~So, ~but I still have to pay the bill, so ~I, ~I teach ~litigate ~English and math, ~so ~I became a private tutor, so it's kind of like a freelancer.

And then ~so ~I got some time to ~like ~draw while I was ~like ~traveling to their home.

Amber: It sounds like you really made a ~very ~clear decision ~in your life ~to dedicate yourself to illustration because your progress is.

Tanya: ~Yes. ~I think ~these, ~all of these happen within a year and a half, ~and then, yes, it's, how would I say? I would say ~at that time, I have nothing left ~apart from, ~apart from food. And my eating disorder. ~So, and ~my food diary is actually how I started drawing again, so that's ~actually ~part of my eating disorder too.

When I was, ~uh, ~[00:04:00] actually it's my therapist who suggest me to start drawing and see how it goes. And then he actually supported me to like, ~uh, ~ask me to send all my images to my first client, which is Hong Kong Eating Association.

So I. Images and illustration and said, ~oh, if, ~if you want to work with me, ~so ~maybe I was a patient as well. ~So ~they take a look in my portfolio and then, ~um, so ~yep, that's it. ~So ~they are my first client in Hong

Amber: Oh, that is such an amazing story. It's so, drawing was effectively ~a pro, ~a process of recovery and taking the food out of actually eating it. Drawing it. ~It's like drawing. ~Sometimes when you, ~I find if I ~really want to buy things and I can't afford them, I used to take photographs of stuff and that's it.

A photograph of that piece of art. I don't have to own it.

Tanya: Yeah.

Amber: of reality.

Tanya: Yeah. ~Yeah, ~that's true. I love how you say [00:05:00] it. ~I couldn't, ~I couldn't say ~that, ~that wording, ~it's.~

Amber: I ~kind of ~think, ~yeah, ~removing it from, ~you know, ~the eating part, but then ~your, ~your therapist being smart enough to say, approach the charity that supports you, ~which is also, ~someone once told me, and this was in Hong Kong as well, ~someone said, ~just start with the grassroots and the people around you in terms of a career.

Your community can support you and build you up if you start working with the people closest. It's an opportunity to draw attention to your work and use that platform and ~it ~grow up from grassroots community into something bigger. It's exactly what's happened to you.

Tanya: Yeah, I didn't expect that as well. ~'cause I was, um, ~I didn't have the confidence back then and then, ~um, ~but my therapist really support me and then just persuade me to just do it. Why not? ~Like ~you got nothing to lose, just sending out images. You don't even have to print it out.

Amber: That's so brave. ~But ~your therapist is ~really ~right. ~You know, ~there is nothing to lose. A lot of what goes on at the other end of your send. You don't know, do you? ~And ~I think some people find that ~really ~disturbing or worrying, like, I can't send my [00:06:00] workout. People might hate it or say, why did you send this to me?

But they're never gonna say it to you. You are never gonna know what people think when they receive it. ~So ~you only really hear the pleasant surprises when they write back and say, ~yeah, ~this is great what you do.

Tanya: Yeah.

Amber: So from there, you went on from showing work with them. Did you work a bit more in Hong Kong after that, ~before you.~

Tanya: Yes, I think. ~Um, ~so I worked with another small company, independent companies who made jam. So jam on the bread. That jam. ~Yeah. So ~I made jam label and the Christmas packaging for them.

Amber: ~Oh, okay. ~So then I guess coming over to the UK is when the work got more serious with an opportunity to be a full-time career. 'cause I know that ~you're rep, ~you're represented by Inkling Agency, which is great.

Tanya: ~yes. ~It's all happened in After Bologna, ~like ~within that two month that I mentioned. So it's a lot.

Amber: It's ~kind of ~proof of that idea though, isn't it? You've gotta be in it to win it.

Tanya: [00:07:00] Yes. ~Um. ~I think ~joining, like ~participating in competitions helped me a lot in ~like ~letting the world ~to ~see me.

Amber: Yeah.

Tanya: Yeah, so it all happens after I have won all those, ~uh, ~competition and awards ~I would say.~

Amber: I think it's such a good move. ~I mean also ~in Hong Kong ~there's a great, there seemed to me when I was there, ~there's a culture of people ~just ~constantly entering competitions and I find it's amazing ~as an an ~as an outsider. ~'cause ~I never really entered any ~of ~competitions. I don't know why. It's something I regret and I've learned a lot about since thinking why would you not?

Your work is in front of so many different eyeballs. People who count it a really quick way, and if you win it even better, there's ~like ~so many things that can go right for you just by submitting even if you don't win.

When I looked at your work, ~when you, ~what was the first course you did with us?

Tanya: ~Um, ~picture book calls. Picture book

Amber: You went ~straight ~into picture book course.

Tanya: Yes, because I was determined ~to, I have ~to get a picture book out, ~so I, ~that's the first course ~that ~I signed up to.

Amber: oh, cool. So that's where ~I, ~I remember seeing your work and thinking. I [00:08:00] thought you were ~a, ~a professional illustrator and ~you ~had ~other ~lots of projects behind you, other books, things like that. But then I started to realize you were saying, I've just started doing this. I'm self-taught. ~Um, ~your work was so fully formed and your voice.

Had so much clarity. I was like, there's a confidence in this work and an aesthetic sensibility and style. ~I've never kind of, ~I can't believe you are a fresh illustrator. I mean, how did,

Tanya: Thank you.

Amber: how did you train yourself in that way without doing a BA ~or something like that ~in illustration.

Tanya: ~I don't, ~I think I am used to educate myself. ~Because ~even when I was in uni, I don't attend a lot of lecture ~and so, ~so I was just educating myself online ~and stuff. So ~I love to ~like ~absol a lot of things from others. ~Uh, ~looking at YouTube videos and learning the software or the materials myself.

Amber: That's a huge amount of self-discipline to commit to, ~uh, self ~self-learning from all those different sources and to keep on going in isolation as well [00:09:00] without the community around you. ~Uh, how, ~how do you ~kind of ~explain that?

Tanya: Actually, ~to me, ~I think I'm way too disciplined that I don't ever want to rest. That's my problem. I don't know. Yes.

Amber: A Hong Kong thing as well, isn't

Tanya: Yeah, I think it's my culture. ~Like ~you have to do it and then you have to make it, and ~you, you, ~you cannot sleep, you cannot rest until ~you, ~you achieve your goal. But I think it's not a good thing.

Amber: I saw you've got a really lovely blog if anyone's interested to go see Amber's, ~uh, ~blog. It's called, ~uh, ~the Pencil Bakery, isn't it?

Tanya: Yeah.

Amber: And I love the way you talk in your blog about, ~you did say ~how ~you didn't learn, ~you didn't know how to rest until you went to Croatia and got so accidentally distracted by tourist attractions that you found out you hadn't thought about drawing for a day.

Tanya: Yeah, just a day.

Amber: But it's obviously what's got you this far and, and ended up with.

Was it Blue Tomato that had the most attention?

Tanya: ~Yeah, so, uh, ~blue Tomato was ~actually ~a project that I [00:10:00] started back in 2022 when I attend a short picture book course in Nottingham.

Amber: Oh, okay.

Tanya: And then, ~um, ~I have that idea, but I didn't. Pull it out. And then I, I saw, I saw Good Shape illustrations picture for course, and I was like, oh, shall I do it?

Shall I not? Oh, but I have nothing. No, I mean, at that time, I don't have a proper goal. So I, I think attending a course is ~actually a, ~a motivation for me to ~like ~achieve something or get some work done. So taking courses is some of the thing that motivate me too.

Amber: ~Yeah, ~there's a certain amount of accountability ~isn't there in ~in taking a course, although nobody knows whether you're showing up or not. You ~kind of ~feel watched in a spooky.

Tanya: yeah. ~Um, ~and the cost is structured weekly, so I got ~something to do, or I got some achieve something to achieve by, uh, um, I mean ~something to achieve weekly. ~So. ~It's good that I got a structure too. ~I mean,~

Amber: Yeah,

Tanya: a self-taught artist.

Amber: I think you got, [00:11:00] you've obviously come a long way under the steam of your personal self discipline, ~but I guess there's.~

~Join something that brings you along with it. ~And being asked to do something on a weekly basis is a great way to produce work, isn't it?

Tanya: Yes, that's true.

Amber: oh, will you give a lecture on blah, blah, blah? That's quite a daunting thought. But if someone says, can you turn up and I can just ask you questions, you are responding and the act of responding to a request can motor you along a lot further.

Tanya: ~Yeah, ~that's true.

Amber: So what did you do on the PitchBook course? Is that where you completed, ~um, ~blue Tomato or did you work on another book?

Tanya: ~Um. ~I don't think I completed the blue tomato during the course, but I have the dummy finished after picture course.

Amber: Okay.

Tanya: Yeah.

Amber: ~And who did you take the, ~who did you show it to and what kind of response did it get?

Tanya: Oh, actually I sent out the Dummies to a lot of publishers and agents. ~Yes. Um, ~I got a mixed review. ~Yes. ~I'm good. I'm bad. ~Some, ~some weird one.

Amber: Yeah.

Tanya: ~Uh, yeah, but, um, ~[00:12:00] I didn't get a response until, ~uh. Before I go to Bologna, so it's ~a month before I go to Bologna. So, ~uh, my, ~my publisher now, ~so ~at Little Tiger, ~they ~emailed me and said they're interested and see if I would like to meet up in Bologna.

So ~I have the meet, ~I had a meeting with them there.

Amber: And ~did that teach it ~when you met and they saw the dummy books in person, is that when they were like, yeah, we're signing you up?

Tanya: Yes, I was actually quite shocked because, ~um, ~this is the first time I saw a ~real, ~real editor and ~real ~art director in real life. ~They're, ~they're so friendly and ~they're, they, ~they act like ~a little ~fans of me, so I was ~so ~overwhelmed. I dunno what to do.

Amber: You said you can't accept compliments and ~there ~they're.

Tanya: Yeah, in person as well, like in front of me saying, oh, I love your work. And I was like, oh my God. ~What, what am I, ~what am I doing now? And yeah, but it's, it's all very, I mean, I'm very grateful ~of, ~of these experiences ~to.~

Amber: [00:13:00] Yeah, I think that I'm interested in the thing you said earlier about you got completely different responses because ~you have on, on one hand ~you have. A very strong identity and color, which personally appeals to me. But then you got told your colors were too dull by some people, didn't you?

Tanya: Yes, ~so, uh, ~because I won the ~um, ~publish book. ~Uh, ~award as well. ~So ~we got the chance to show our dummy book to publishers all over the world in their booth. So, ~uh, ~some of the publisher actually, I, ~uh, ~some of them say that my story, it's to. Too common, so you could easily find these kind of story on the shelf.

And some said that my color is too brown. Yeah, too dull. You have to brighten up the color and then Yes. So I, but, but, but some of the professions said that they love my work too. [00:14:00] So I mean, you have to have a very strong mind ~to be there ~to take all of the comments and opinions ~about the single thing.~

Amber: Yeah, it's like ~the massive version of ~being at art college and saying, oh, I'm really confused. This tutor told me I was going in the right direction. Then I spoke to someone else and they said, it's not working. ~What am I? And ~you really have to develop a personal sense of. ~Uh, ~who you are and what you're trying to do.

Protect yourself ~from, ~from advice that isn't useful to you. And know when someone is telling you something that's useful. ~I mean, you, ~when you're at Bologna, you look at the different stores, you can see who your people are, can't you immediately?

Tanya: Yeah.

Amber: You're very, you can be very attracted to the most obscure sites.

Like I kept finding amazing work at the Korean publishers, or some of the Latin American publishers and some of the Indian ones as well. But then I would see a lot of the American publishers, ~the, ~the larger mainstream publishers and think, oh no, those are not for me.

Tanya: Yes.

Amber: ~Yeah. ~You've gotta know who's telling you that advice ~and, ~and how to filter out so that you can pushing forward and take from it what you need.

I think if you've got. A level [00:15:00] of uncertainty. It can be really dangerous being buffeted around by all this different information.

Tanya: Yes, ~that's, ~I love the way you say that it's dangerous because I imagine if two years younger than my age, when I was there, if I was like, not that. Sure that my, my, my creative voice, I will listen to all, all the advice, and I take all the advice and then ~just put it, ~put them all into my work.

Amber: Imagine what a disgusting meal that would be, like food and let everyone have their say. It would be a complete mess in the end, wouldn't it? ~So I think. Uh, ~one thing we try to do on the good ship because some people are disappointed that we don't really give one-to-ones and we can't sit and talk in a group with feedback, which was the way I was taught at colleges.

It's amazing how ~I think a, ~a course where you decide how you're gonna interact with it can hopefully strengthen your own confidence to say. I'm following this course, I'm following this type of work. This is my [00:16:00] voice. ~And I, you know, ~I understand what I need to get to support myself and not be buffeted around by other people and their opinions.

Tanya: Yeah.

Amber: Yeah, I think it's ~diff it is ~much difficult ~when, ~when you're younger to know who you're going to become, but ~you, ~you are very lucky 'cause you have ~a sense, a, ~a very clear sense of self from early on. Did it come as soon as you started drawing like.

Tanya: No, I tried. So when I first started, I tried to copy others. ~So ~I saw this online and I was like, oh, that's nice. And then I will try to copy them. it's funny that as long as. I said copy, but after, after I did that, it's actually doesn't look exactly like what I was copying. So I did that in my way and ~I ~used the materials in my way too.

~So ~no matter how much you want to copy others, you couldn't. ~I would say ~I tried it a lot of times and I don't think ~that ~that's a possible way.

Amber: I remember Helen saying, ~you know, and ~it's something that's done. At art school and has been done for years copying the great Masters [00:17:00] or ~copying ~different work, ~it ~is a method of learning. As long as you know that you're wearing someone else's clothes for a while, they're not yours, you're gonna have to take them off and find out what lies inside.

~Um, ~but I think ~it's a, ~it's a stage that you pass through. ~Um. But if, ~if your voice is strong enough, which yours clearly was, you were probably trying to copy things and ~your, ~your own ~amber ~voice was squishing all these other things down. I imagine ~only as you, ~you could only do yourself, which is really funny.

That shows what kind of ~a strength of kind of, yeah, ~strength of your own voice was there in the first place. ~I~

Tanya: Mm-hmm.

Amber: do you think your work is ~very kind of, is it ~like other work in Hong Kong or do ~you think ~you feel very different?

Tanya: I feel very different. I would say my world is more, I don't know. ~Did you say ~European

Amber: Yeah,

Tanya: yeah.

Amber: that's the word. Hong Kong is used to use. When we were in class, I remember, ~so the students, ~some students ~who were sort of, they ~ended up working at ~Disney. ~Disney as imagineers ~and. ~I remember them saying to me one day, ~oh, ~there's a ~new, ~new student coming to this class, Tanya, ~you're gonna, ~you're gonna really like her because her work's really European.

I was like, [00:18:00] oh. ~Oh, ~have I been giving away my tastes? ~And, uh, they obviously ~the game is up because ~I, I don't like anything to, ~I can't explain it, but ~I know, ~I know which work ~sort of ~excites me ~and I think you're probably using exactly the right term for the. ~From a Hong Kong perspective, the work looks slightly European, but there's a culture of comics in Hong Kong, ~isn't there that, ~do you think that has fed into your work?

Not necessarily just the visual, but the storytelling comes naturally,

Tanya: I think I start, when I first started my, my work is quite. Comic as well. Yeah. So it's like, so it's like flat, ~uh, uh, ~flat color and ~then ~bold shapes. But it eventually evolved to my, like, how my work looks now. 'cause my, my taste is more drawn to, ~uh, ~we so called European style when I explored the picture boat, world picture, boat world.

So, ~um, ~yeah, I think I was influenced by all of them as well.

Amber: Yeah, there's a lot of texture and mark making and a kind of handmade quality in your work. Do you, ~uh, ~like traditional [00:19:00] materials or is everything, ~uh.~

Tanya: ~Uh, so ~for client work and most of my work, it's ~is ~purely used procreate.

Amber: Wow. But it travels well, doesn't it? You can work if you're a workaholic. ~Procre is your friend. You can always~

Tanya: ~Yes. I just. ~I have to bring my iPad wherever I'm in. ~Yeah.~

Amber: ~And ~what are you working on now?

Tanya: ~Um, ~I ~actually ~just finished a coffee bag label for a client for a local roaster here.

Amber: ~Oh, nice. ~So you're doing some packaging as well.

Tanya: ~Yes. ~So I want to explore more apart from picture book world industry too. ~So I, ~I'm interested in food packaging and ~then, uh, ~advertising ~too, ~because I think publishing industry is a bit too slow for me, so it doesn't pay the bill. ~So I.~

Amber: Yeah, I think that's a good move. I mean, that's what all illustrators are doing now. Looking ~as ~at as many different multiple strands of income, whether it's kind of publishing, do you publish your own work? Do you do your own art prints or cards or things like that?

Tanya: Yes, [00:20:00] I do sell some of them, but I didn't did it properly since I've been selling my work for more than three years. But I didn't do the marketing properly, and I just live with that on my shelf. So I'll want to do it seriously now. ~Yeah.~

Amber: ~Do you do markets or anything? ~Do you go out in real life and sell prints? ~Have you had time~

Tanya: ~I just did, ~I just did, ~uh, ~one market before and one scene festival, so I make ~my small ~my own scene too. So it's about food too. So it's similar, ~uh, ~topic though. Yes.

Amber: You could be selling to, ~you know, ~Asian restaurants. ~If I, ~when I came back from Hong Kong, I did draw a little bit of food stuff and I sold quite a lot of prints to, ~uh, ~Chinese restaurants, Hong Kong restaurants that had opened up ~in, ~in the uk. ~So~

Tanya: Okay.

Amber: markets are ~definitely ~there for your work.

Tanya: I have to think about that.

Amber: Funny enough, I was listening to a program about selling on ~fair on that, ~that platform. ~Um, and ~I was wondering if there were anyone selling Hong Kong cards there. ~And, and ~it was really interesting. A lady was talking about, she made creative bamboo socks. They had visual [00:21:00] images and the, the, they're made out of bamboo fiber.

And she said. They'd be really uncomfortable, wouldn't they? She was saying as well, as well as selling ~really ~well on fair. She started, ~um, ~contacting podiatrists and she said, wow, the majority of our sales of our lovely bamboo socks, because they're healthy and good for your feet are directly to podiatrist. I was like, what a piece of marketing genius, isn't it?

Tanya: it's.

Amber: So I think rather than just think I'm an illustrator who sells prints and some art, your work is about food. And there's definitely, that's one of the problems I think for a lot of restaurants, is finding artwork that supports ~their, ~their offering ~There. ~If you perfect for that. And with a big Hong Kong diaspora now moving into the UK at We Newcastle, 'cause there's a whole China town with amazing restaurants there.

If you go and sell 'em your [00:22:00] prints. ~So what.~

Tanya: ~Um, ~so I have done Blue Tomatoes, so it will be our next year. So I have another two book with, ~um, ~my publisher now. So we're still working on it, but I'm also working on, ~uh, ~non-fiction. ~So ~I would like to draw some non-fiction picture box too. Yeah.

Amber: Are you, ~you are ~working on nonfiction as a kind of, as a shop window piece to signal that nonfiction publishers, or have you got a contract or ~have you got ~a book

Tanya: No, ~I don't. ~I haven't have a contract yet. ~I'm just ignoring that ~I'm trying to attract them and asking my agents to help ~me to ~promote my work.

Amber: Oh, that's great. ~Look at that. ~Work ethic at play.

Tanya: I just.

Amber: So we'll see. Hopefully we'll see you at Bologna, won't we? Will you be there this year that the book Fair?

Tanya: ~Uh, ~no, I don't think I will be going there this year. But ~you said you, ~you guys are having a store there, is it

Amber: Yeah. ~Yeah, ~we're gonna have a

Tanya: So exciting.

Amber: and I'm just looking forward to hanging out and watching

Tanya: Oh,

Amber: pop [00:23:00] by for a chat and a cup of

Tanya: oh

Amber: ~the plan. Yeah. ~Oh, well it's been really lovely chatting to you, Amber, and it's great just to hear it. Your tale of how you got to where you are so quickly with a lot of dedication and focus ~and hard ~and hard work, ~um, ~inspiration to other people that if that's what you want to do, it can be done.

Tanya: Yes. And I would say even if you'll never feel ready, I would say so. If you feel uncomfortable, just do it. ~Yeah, yeah.~