It’s not too late, you’re not behind, and yessss, you should still start - an interview with illustrator Carys Wright

This week, our Katie is chatting to Carys Wright - a London-based writer and illustrator, hardcore Good Shipper, and all-round excellent example of what can happen when you follow the creative thread, even if your path looks a bit wiggly.

Carys went from acting and theatre into illustration, and we chat about how sketchbooking helped her find her creative voice, and what it’s looked like to keep building an illustration career alongside marketing work and baby. (No mean feat!)

There’s chat about markets, picture books, digital vs traditional materials and finding your way back to your own weirdness. Mmmm.

Timestamps, for the timestamp fans:

00:00 – Intro to Carys Wright and her creative journey so far
02:00 – Sketchbooks, childhood drawing, and getting back into a regular practice
04:30 – From acting and theatre to illustration
07:30 – Lockdown, Fly Your Freak Flag, and following the drawing thread properly
09:00 – Early illustration jobs, theatre clients, and picture book ambitions
10:30 – Mentoring, competitions, and building confidence through deadlines
11:30 – Illustrating her first book for the Lord Mayor of London
12:30 – Motherhood, maternity leave, and drawing with a baby in the background
16:00 – Portfolios, perfectionism, and letting things evolve
18:00 – Staying connected to your weirdness while doing client work
19:30 – Digital tools, Procreate, and not panicking about how you make the work
23:00 – Opening an online shop, doing markets, and live portraits
26:00 – Other ways illustrators can work, from events to corporate projects
28:00 – AI, humanity, and why weird human imagination still matters
30:30 – Wearing lots of creative hats and letting your interests overlap
33:00 – Coming to illustration later can actually be a strength
35:00 – It’s not too late, you’re not behind, and yes, you should still start

Links mentioned:

• Carys’ website: https://www.caryswright.com/
• Carys on Instagram: @carys_adventures_with_a_pen
• Carys’ Substack, Adventures with a Pen: https://adventureswithapen.substack.com/

Byeeee for now!

x The Good Ship Illustration (Helen, Katie & Tania)

p.s. Want to find your creative voice too? Come and fly your freak flag with Good Ship. We'd love to have you sailing with us!

Read all about the course here.

Come and say hello!

✏️ @thegoodshipillustration
🌏 www.thegoodshipillustration.com

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Transcript

April 1 - Carys Wright
===

​[00:00:00] 

This week we're speaking to Caris Wright. Caris is a London based writer and illustrator, and she sealed on the first ever good ship illustration, voyage of our Find Your Creative Voice. Fly Your Freak Flag Course way back in 2020. Her first illustrated book, the Curious Cat and the Lords. Lord Mayor's Show was commissioned by the Lord Mayor of London's office and her clients include Tottenham Hot Spur, FC Zoetis and award-winning theater company Clean Break Kara's book Project.

The day the Dragon came was long listed for the Depict US unpublished picture book Showcase 2025. She [00:01:00] was part of the Picture Hooks body scheme in 2025, and she won mentorship with the PB Rising Stars Program in 2023. Let's have a listen, shall we? Okay. I see you in there.

Katie: Oh, hey. Okay. I am. So this was third time lucky. I am honored today to be, I'm here with Karis Wright, who is a hardcore good shipper, and I had the pleasure of meeting Karis in real life with our human faces in Edinburgh recently at the Picture hooks speed dating networking event thing, which was very cool.

Me and Helen just elbowed our way into that event. But anyway would you like to introduce yourself?

carys: Oh sure. Yeah, it was lovely to meet you guys there. I'm Karis. I am an illustrator and yeah, hardcore good shipper. I'm honored to be given the title. I have been a fan of the Good Ship since I guess. Since you guys started, which I think was back in 2020 and I was on some of the early art clubs listening to the early podcast, the do it yourself at home, 10 minute drawing [00:02:00] exercises, which was perfect for.

Those days when we were just I was stuck inside our studio flat at the time. The flat that we'd moved into being like, this is fine, right? 'cause we're out all the time and it doesn't really matter that it's one room and half. So yeah, that was, that kind of kept me sane actually. It was really good.

But yes, hello?

Katie: Yeah. Hello. Lovely to have you here. And it's, yeah I feel like everybody I've spoken to so far who's been a good shipper, who's come on the podcast, has been a hardcore good shipper. And that must be one of the qualifications maybe. But I'm really excited to speak to you. Yeah. You can't just dabble, you've gotta go straight in. So I'm excited to speak to you today about finding your creative voice, and I think maybe a good place to start with that is talking about your sketchbook practice, because I've seen your sketchbooks in real life and they are delicious to behold.

Yeah, were you, have you always been an avid sketchbook, bookkeeper?

carys: Yeah, good question. So I think [00:03:00] like lots of illustrators, I drew a lot as a child and had stacks of a four paper printed paper, waiting for my felt tip pens and did all of that. And I think when you were a child that comes quite easily grew up was doing art, GCSE and art A level, which is great, but it's a lot to do with a beautiful pencil drawing of a bunch of flowers or stuff like that. So it's not so much, not so much creative flow, let's say. And then I kept a sketchbook throughout early adulthood, but it was like now and then it's something I do when I was maybe on holiday or, it wouldn't be the day, a daily thing.

And I think it was really, I'd been doing a bit more drawing. Before freak flag. I'd been drawing a bit on my commute like into work. And my other job, I think I was even temping at the time. This is when I was still working as an actor and drawing on my lunch breaks and stuff like that.

But it wasn't really until I took a co took the Good Ship course that I got really into my sketchbook again, and I [00:04:00] think was two things COVID happened. So as I mentioned. I didn't have anywhere to go, so I was a lot in my local park at the time, drawing. And also, yeah the freak flag course has a whole module on sketch booking.

So I was like, great. And I think I bought myself an A four sketchbook, which felt very daring at the time. 'cause I'd had a five max sizes and

Katie: Go big. I'll go home.

carys: I used some of the money that I would've spent like going to the pub or whatever, but obviously couldn't do that. Ordered a nice sketchbook and yeah, I felt like I had loads of space and it was, yeah, it was a really nice feeling and I got a bit addicted and that's been going on then ever since.

So I guess five years or so. 

Katie: And you mentioned you were an actor. How did I miss that? So I know that you've met the theater and stuff. Wait, you were an actor? What?

carys: Yeah, a bit of a funny journey and I'm always interested in hearing kind of other illustrators that have perhaps come from a different route or haven't gone the traditional school art, school illustrator path. [00:05:00] So for me, I, like I said, I always loved art as a kid. But I did also love plays and acting and stories.

I think the two are similar in a way. 'cause I always felt like I was. Telling stories of my drawing and then also through doing plays and that kind of stuff. And I was a bit torn and I got to 18 and I was like, oh, I don't know what to do. And I think actually one of the things that made me not go to art school was. I assumed I'd do fine art and then I went to look around a couple of art schools and it was all like super conceptual stuff and I was like, oh, but I just wanna draw. I dunno if this is for me, actually, I guess at the time I didn't really know about illustration and that could have been a path.

I felt a bit like, oh, I don't, I dunno about this, dunno what I'd make work about really on a conceptual level. Or like big sculptures about capitalism or whatever. Sorry, that's not to do your fin art degrees down. It's just I was a bit lost, I think.

Katie: You are so right though, especially when you're like, what, 17 or 18? And they're like, okay, what do you think about [00:06:00] the world and all the social structures and.

carys: Yeah, I dunno. Yeah, that was how I felt. Whereas with acting like the theater side, that had a bit of a clearer route. It was like drama school. Although, again, I didn't get into drama school, actually. I went to university in the end and studied English and drama. I went to Trinity and I had the best time.

So I'm so glad. Actually that I did do that and I think it's given me lifelong friends, but also lots of other things and kind of skills and bits that now feed into my illustration, but that's why, yeah. So I did, pause. I went to, yeah, I went to Trinity without pursuing the art school thing.

I think looking back now, actually. The drawing aspect was always there. So I ended up doing like people's posters for the plays they were putting on. And I did a module in costume design, which I loved, and yeah, that kind of thing. So it was always there. And then I moved back to London, worked as an actor for [00:07:00] about five years and made some of my own work as well.

So I did a bit of writing. And was drawing in my sketchbook alongside it, like I said to you about drawing on the tube or in my sort of lunch, half hour lunch breaks when I was working on different receptions and doing all sorts of odd jobs to pay my bills. So it was really when COVID happened and forced me to stop.

Like all theaters closed within a day. I actually had a show that was meant to open that day that didn't happen. And then there was just no work. So yeah, luckily I was, I had, I was working as well at part-time in a marketing role, which I still work as now actually as my kind of other job to, to keep myself afloat.

But, so I went full time on that, but I felt such a oh my gosh, what can I do that's creative? 'cause I feel a bit like. I lost and I dunno what I'm doing. Yeah. Then luckily Good Ship came along and provided a bit of an outlet for that. And again, then led me to think I've always not quite followed that path of following my drawing and seeing where [00:08:00] that could take me.

Let me see what happens. And that's what sort of led me to where I'm today. So working as an illustrator. Yeah.

Katie: It is always so interesting to hear. I think like creative people, like the creativity comes out whether you like it or not

carys: Yeah,

Katie: out in different

carys: Yeah.

Katie: Yeah. It's like spilling out wherever you go. Like even if you are in, 'cause obviously acting is very creative as well, but you're still like creating the posters and writing and drawing as well.

Like I love that. Yeah.

carys: Yeah. Making set, like painting sets and, yeah. All sorts. So it's it's always still there. I really agree with that. I can try and squash it down, but it'll always come back. See, you might as

In. Yeah.

Katie: Yeah. And I so that was, I can't believe it, but that was six years ago now. What so how has life looked since 2020? What's been going on?

carys: Yeah. Lots more drawings. So I think for a couple of years just was filling sketchbooks and getting perhaps more. I did get a few. My first [00:09:00] illustration gigs were through theater companies that I knew of actually. So that had worked with me in other ways were then hiring me to illustrate for them.

So that was a nice kind of little segue. Started doing some commissions for people, like of their dogs or cats or whatever that was. That was great. I was like, oh, okay, so I can earn money from this. Really into picture books. Again, reading was such an important part of my childhood and picture books of especially the ones I had as a kid are like ingrained.

I think on my brain. I can still see the kind of key spreads and pictures. So I got a chance to revisit that passion, which has been brilliant and working towards. Yeah, making some dummies doing a few schemes. So you mentioned the picture hooks body, not body scheme. Yeah, body scheme, which I did last year which was fantastic.

They're

Katie: Who is your buddy?

carys: organization. I had Maria Ho Illustra who wrote Flooded a few years ago and she was [00:10:00] fantastic. It was just really great to get some like. Direct feedback on my work as well, because again, 'cause I didn't go to art school, I'd never had that experience of having a crypt or feedback really.

I've built a bit of a network of other illustrators that sometimes we share our work and kind of comment on it and things like that, but not formally. So it was really nice to have her help me. Build my portfolio up and then also helped me create a dummy a new dummy that I was working on at the time.

So it was, yeah, really great. And just having someone to I, yeah, just be there as a bit of a place where you can ask questions as well was great. But 

Katie: it's so good to have somebody's brain to pick as well and have like formal accountability. If you're building a portfolio I'm gonna go away and do this and come back,

carys: Exactly that. Yeah. It's we'll meet in a month and we can chat about what you've done. I'm like, okay, I better do that then. It's good. 'cause I'm definitely someone that needs deadlines, I think. So even if they're self-imposed, like competitions have been really good for that. Even if you don't get the, if you don't win, which [00:11:00] I don't think I've won anything, but that's fine.

It is like just useful as a deadline and a brief as well. And it helps you build your portfolio. So that's the kind of thing I need, I think to move forward. But before that I also did a mentoring scheme called PB Rising Stars. It's actually an American scheme and that was great as well.

So got to work with an illustrator there as well, Cynthia Cliff who's based over in the us So yeah, just getting to know the networks a little bit. And I've had, yeah, then I illustrated my first book in 2023, and that was actually for the Lord Mayor of London's office. So not with a traditional publisher, but.

The Lord Mayor of London changes every year. This is the person who's in charge of all the guilds that still sit within the city of London, so the square mile city of London. And every year they do a charitable project and the Lord Mayor at the time wanted to make a picture book for the children that all went to school within the square mile.

So I was hired as the illustrator for that, which was great. I also designed it and did quite a lot of the things myself, so it [00:12:00] was real. Like baptism of fire and I felt like I learned loads. 'cause I was like, okay, I, I just need to put the artwork together and make it happen. So that was really great.

And since then I've worked with some quite big clients like Tottenham, the football club. I illustrated their their Christmas story what was it, 2024. Can't remember. Yeah, I think it was 20, no, 20, 23, I think it was before I had my son. I can't remember. Things are

Katie: is melted.

carys: yeah, and everything in my brain is like before or after I was pregnant.

I don't, I can't quite remember there, but that was really great. And yeah, just

Katie: a good, that's a good sort of path into the next bit. So when was your son born? Because I feel like that changes everything. Doesn't it like

carys: It

Katie: how much you can work and how much you don't want to work as well, and it changes your priorities completely, doesn't it?

carys: Yeah it definitely does. So I had my son. Almost two years ago, so it's nearly two. So February, 2024, he was born. And I was on maternity leave 'cause I still kept my, I've [00:13:00] still got my marketing job as well. So I was on maternity leave from that which was great. Oh, no, I'm remembering now that Tottenham was when I had him in the background actually.

Yeah. So I, I was on maternity leave from my marketing job and maternity leave. Let me be clear, like it's not. A holiday in any way, shape or form. It's really tough. But I did have a bit more time to draw at the same time. So it was like both sides of the coin, especially when he was really tiny.

So yeah, spent a bit of time drawing him and that could be like five minutes, honestly. But again, I think it, having my son made me reconnect with my sketchbooks because I was having to be very present and in the moment. And I think Sketch Booking helped with that. And also I've got a lovely record now of.

Him growing up, like months, they change so quickly, don't they? In those first, especially in those first sort of six weeks. And I definitely didn't draw him every day, but I made an effort to capture some of that time we had together. And that was really great. And I think in the, that [00:14:00] summer when he would've been about six months or so, I did the three materials challenge, which some other good shippers run.

So that was another good way to draw every day and just have a play. And my sketchbook, I think then again, became a place of play. I think when there's not a sort of end goal with it, it can, that's what it does. It's just like somewhere to experiment. So it let me play with new materials and also just capture Yeah.

Time with my son. So that was great. And I think during my maternity leave from my other job, I just felt like I had more mental head space for my kind of creative. Life and where I wanted to take my career. So I think I did like a website update, started to think more about selling prints and, kind of other things were starting to occur to me.

And yeah, that's, that Autumn I got approached by Tottenham and I did do the job with him in the background. I just could completely forgotten that. He was like, yeah. 'cause I remember speaking to their team and he was, I had to like. Run between rooms. 'cause he was [00:15:00] just learning to, to pull himself up and potentially falling over and all of that kind stuff.

So it

Katie: Oh my

carys: a juggle.

Katie: That is so impressive, even that you managed to get that much drawing done. 'cause I did a very short maternity leave, but just the drawing thing was hard. And then I felt like the window of her being small and not just grabbing the pen off me or the pencil or wanting to get in the sketchbook, that window is so short because now even if I like look at my iPad, she's can I do painting? No. That's my boring work iPad. You do not touch that, so your hat's off to you and even to get drawing done. Nel, every day is amazing.

carys: Yeah, most days, and I, and it's, again, that just was what worked for me. I don't, I think anyone that's having a baby and that's artistically inclined, don't put pressure on yourself to, I must, make this. Most of the time and stuff is there's so many other pressures that you're gonna be dealing with as a new mom.

I just, yeah, don't let that be one of them, but if it's something that maybe could just give you a bit of a break or a respite and a bit of time to be creative, [00:16:00] then that's great. Yeah. Take what I'm saying with a pinch of salt, I think as well. But yeah, just so where was I? So then when I went back to work last year, I think I'd already done a fair bit of looking at my illustration business and thinking about where I wanted it to grow. So I think I had applied to picture hooks within that time as well and got the place and all of that. And then last year was really about focusing on that and and building my portfolio up again. It's portfolio is something you're always working on though, isn't it?

So it's I wanted to do this big refresh of it. It's partly because I'd been. Started to work in a slightly different way, so I wanted it to reflect that. But I know that in a year or so I'll probably be like, oh, I need to do a refresh. But it's really just a constant thing, I think. Which again, the good ship's been really helpful to make me realize it's okay.

It doesn't have to be perfect. Like it's where you're at now. That can be your portfolio, but it doesn't have to be, this is it forever. I must sign my name in blood and I can't change it. 

Katie: Yeah, I mean it's the same like you, you, everything's in progress, isn't it? Like you're [00:17:00] finding your creative voice is

An ongoing, long, lifelong project. Your website, which is basically a portfolio that's never, ever finished. And yeah, your portfolio is always evolving as well. I think having a portfolio is the big first thing.

People get so in their head about it that they don't even bother making a website. They don't even make a portfolio 'cause they're so scared of doing it wrong or not having it exactly how they want it.

carys: Yeah, definitely. And I think, I think it's good Chip that Ed said to me, like you can just start just start doing it. And I really believe in that for anything you don't, you won't always feel like an expert. You won't necessarily feel ready, but it's okay. You can just start and you'll learn on the way and it doesn't really matter.

I, maybe it's the elephant phrase, I can't remember. Eat the, what is it? Eat the,

Katie: yeah, eat. The way to eat an elephant is one teaspoon at a time.

carys: That's it. Yeah. Poor elephant. But yeah, that's quite a good one to remember. And yeah, the freak flag stuff like keeps coming back. I think. I think that's partly maybe why I wanted to redo my [00:18:00] portfolio.

I felt like actually with getting more work, I'd lost a bit of me in that and I think it's maybe always gonna be a case of you've got to realign yourself. Navigate to, oh, actually that's what I'm really interested in. And that's me and that's what I wanna do because as I maybe got better technically, I dunno.

And like work for different clients that wanted different things and you can get a bit lost, I think. And it's important to have that time to come back and be like, oh no, it's okay. This is actually my like main. Values or like what I'm really interested in. So I've definitely come back and done bits of the freak flag course again in subsequent years.

Which has been really nice. Like I was even looking at it the other day thinking about my branding, which I was learning about on the business course business club. But I was like, ah, actually I need to look at my kind of weirdness again to, to inform that. So it's, they're all

Katie: That's so good. Absolutely, and I feel like we hear that so much and I think we've all experienced it as well. Like me, [00:19:00] Helen and Tanya, that thing where work is going and you're working with more clients,

It's so hard to kinda stay in your weirdness and remember who you are and not just be like totally soaked into oh, this makes money and I'm just gonna do this thing because I will get work.

There's like a balance isn't there, of like getting client work, but also staying true to your own freak flag at the end of the

So

carys: Yeah,

Katie: you're on it and that's great that you're in Illustration Business Club as well. I love to hear it.

carys: Yeah. Oh, it's great. I actually still haven't finished it, but that's okay. I'm doing it one teaspoon at a time and yeah, it's been really helpful. What was I going to say on that? I can't remember. Oh, I was just gonna say, I think. Maybe this is a, maybe this is covered as well in freak flag, like digital stuff.

'cause I, so I, you were saying about the Tottenham job, I had my son, but it was also quite a tight timeframe, so I decided to do that work on my iPad, which I still stand by that decision 'cause I just thought they might have loads of changes, so I need to do it in layers just in [00:20:00] case. And that was great and it worked well and I felt like I learned a lot about how to use procreate to.

To make work and it has a slightly older field and picture book, so that's fine. But then I was like, oh, but actually I love paint, so let me go back and and experiment with that again and think about line and how it can be a bit messier and more free. Like my sketchbook works. So it's, yeah, you always jumping between the different ways of working, I think and trying to find something that works for you at the time.

And that fits back into maybe what I was saying about realignment and you've got to navigate. Yeah.

Katie: And if you feel more confident in your creative voice, whatever tool you're using, whether it is digital or analog, I feel like your voice comes through anyway. So it's

You don't even worry about it. 'cause people sometimes come in and they're so worried about oh, I need to get an iPad, or I must work digitally.

Or even now I'm seeing people saying, oh, I can't work digitally because people will think it's ai and I don't want people to think it's ai, so I must work analog. And I'm like, it does. It really doesn't matter. Just find your creative voice. [00:21:00] And do the thing you're gonna do and whatever, like whether you're cutting out and doing collage or painting or like doing some crazy digital stuff, it's all gonna look like it's come from your hands, and that's all that matters.

carys: Yeah, definitely. I think, yeah I was one of those people actually that thought, I can't do digital artwork, so I can't use Illustrator or Photoshop, so I don't, I can't be an illustrator that's not gonna work. But no I saw sense. I think, again, freak flag was like, it's fine, you can make work however you want.

You can do finger painting if you want it'll still be your work. So that definitely, yeah. If anyone's listening that. Still feels that way. Please don't worry. I still can only do very basic things on Photoshop. And that's okay. Yeah.

Katie: YouTube's for, isn't it? It's dear YouTube, how do I do this thing? Show me step by step. Like even I've done like courses in it and I still just go straight to YouTube and ask it how to do things.

carys: Yeah. 'cause there's just always gonna be more tools and you're like, oh my gosh, I can do this. Okay, let me go down

Katie: blowing.

carys: hole and yeah. Learn about this tool. [00:22:00] But yeah and actually I think having seen Helen's work, I think when I was doing the pitch picture book course, perhaps was the time when she was working digitally, I can't remember, but there was a time when Helen made a couple of books on her iPad and that I think really helped me as well realize that.

Your voice is still, it can still be consistent across digital, handmade, traditional, doesn't matter. So that was really helpful as well. As well as all her tips about don't zoom in. It's okay. Was really good. And

Katie: not zooming in tip has saved my life as well. 'cause it does, you can notice it. Yeah.

carys: Yeah. And yeah, people can't zoom in on a book, so you shouldn't necessarily zoom in on your screen, even though it's tempting and keep your brushes, few and consistent and all that kind of thing has been really helpful. But yeah.

Katie: I know you mentioned markets and selling things online. Maybe this, maybe that was was that your evolution from thinking more commercially once you felt [00:23:00] like you'd found your creative voice a bit and be like let's add some income streams. What did that look like for you?

I.

carys: Yeah, definitely. So I think, I'm trying to remember when I opened my online shop, and I can't quite remember. I think it could have been on maternity leave. So I just added a shop section within my, my, my website's on Wix, and that's got its own inbuilt shop function. So that was easy, really easy to do.

Just some prints of some of my sketchbook pages and they were quite popular, so I was like I wonder if I could do markets. So I did my first market, I think November 20, 24 maybe. And I've done them. It was great. I, it was a local market and I'm lucky I live in quite a sort of arty area as it turns out.

Like lot, there's lots of makers in South London, lots of them, other people that were doing similar things were there, or lots of people with ceramics or fabrics or whatever it might be. So I think the person that runs this particular market is Maple Road Market. If there's anyone local has a nice taste and was really welcoming.

So I did my stool [00:24:00] there. Before Christmas. Now that also makes a difference 'cause people are looking for presents and things. But yeah, it went well and I think that was the first time I also did my live portraits which have turned out to be now probably the main thing that people buy at my market stalls.

So I've done a few more markets since I've been doing them for about a year. And at the last one I did, so exactly a year later. I was basically back to back doing portraits and I was like, oh my gosh, I can't sell prints and do portraits at the same time. It's really difficult. Which is a lovely problem to have and I'll try and figure it out for the next markets that I've got

Katie: Yeah, you're gonna have to train that child fast if you're like, you handle sales.

carys: you press this button and take the money and put it in a nice bag. Actually, I don't even have bags. I should probably do that. But yeah, it's, it was, it's been really nice and I think. I, one of the, actually one of the reasons that I didn't want to work as an artist originally, like way back when I was 18, is.

I [00:25:00] thought that meant you'd have to work and just be solo all the time and just not ever see anybody else. I don't think that's 100% true. I do think it can be lonely 'cause you are often at your desk. But as someone that's maybe a bit more extroverted, I think I'm probably a mix really. Which we, maybe we all are.

Like I need my own time and space as well. But it that the markets. Tick that box for me of chatting to people and being really like meet Yeah. Meeting loads of different people talking about my work, having a bit of a laugh. Like it's really nice for that and it's just a day and I can do that and it's actually quite overstimulating for me, but that's fine.

'cause it's just a day. So it's this is really intense. I'll do this and then I'll do another one in a month or two months or whatever. So it's it's quite a nice, thing to add to your kind of revenue stream list, if that's something that you also would enjoy, I think, which not, and not everyone would, and that's fine as well.

Just do your sales online. So yeah, I think just with experimentation you'll find like I have [00:26:00] found the different bits that work. Like I'd love to, and again, I'd love to look, learn more about the kind live illustration that you do. I haven't done any, but I'm interested, especially.

Because my marketing role is more corporate, so I feel like I can see it from that client perspective as well as to why it would be so useful for businesses to have that kind of visual capture of what all the kind of buzzwords and jargony strategy stuff that goes on. 

Katie: Yeah, I mean 

carys: dipped

Katie: fact that you do, yeah. The fact that you do live portraits at events like markets, sorry. It's basically the same thing as doing live portraits at events, and I know loads of people are doing really cool. Things, it's a slightly different market, isn't it? The portrait thing versus graphic recording,

carys: Yeah,

Katie: of what they're talking about rather than drawing the people.

But yeah, that, it's funny, they the lines blur, but, and corporate people get in touch and we just want to creative person to keep us awake because it's so boring. Anything.

carys: and [00:27:00] actually you're right. I've seen someone, some, someone on your job sport. I've seen some of the briefs come in and it's more we want you to capture this event of hosting panels or Yeah, having a symposium on this small fungus. No. Whatever it might be. Like sometimes they're super niche, aren't they?

Which I love seeing. So yeah, that kind of one would be a good, maybe a benefit fit for now because it's people not the concept, but yeah. Such an interesting, path. And also I think so cool that illustration can apply to anything. 'cause there's such a range of businesses there that are looking for our services as illustrators, and it's, yeah, it's pretty cool.

So I think when you first start and you think, oh, I got to just do magazines, maybe website stuff or books and that's it. It's so not the case. 

Katie: Yeah, you're so right because that is that when you're starting out, you have that thing of okay, I can be a picture book person, or I can be an editorial person, and those are my two paths as an illustrator. And then yeah you get into illustration, you're like, wait a minute, like I can create my own [00:28:00] products and sell them, or I can illustrate branding for people, or I can there's unlimited things that you can do with illustration.

I think if you can think of. Like this would be like commercial business hat on. If you can think of any problem or pain point somebody has, there's probably a way the illustration can help it in some way. And I think especially now with AI and everything the way it is, we had the AI workshop earlier this week and we were talking about companies are using illustration now because it's so friendly and human and welcoming.

It's like the ultimate. It soothes the apocalyptic feel. The AI stuff can have, like if you look at Claude Claude's branding is gorgeous. The Google AI one,

carys: Oh, I.

Katie: hand drawn logo and they've got like a cream background. I'm like, it's beautiful, but it's

carys: Some might. Someone's

Katie: builds trust.

carys: a Yeah, it's

Katie: yeah, it's got this hand drawn, trusted human feel to the branding and I'm like, that speaks volumes [00:29:00] for where we're at.

carys: yeah, definitely. And ai I think it has, obviously has its benefits, but I was even looking today though, I saw a post on Instagram that was like ai. Interpretation versus a children's interpretation of animals that don't exist yet. And it was so interesting 'cause it was like the AI ones looked quite like.

Sophisticated. They obviously, they had shading and they had, texture and they looked like real animals imaginary, fantastical animals. But the children's ones were just so much cooler and they were genuinely things that don't exist. Whereas the AI ones were like hodgepodge of different things, like a dragon with a fish tail or blah, blah, blah.

And it just made me think like that can never, hopefully can, I don't think, can ever be replicated. 'cause it's like the imagination part. We have as humans is like in our brain. It's such an ephemeral thing. AI can't really take that. So AI can use what already exists and [00:30:00] replicate it, but it can't always do the joining of the dots in the imagination and in the brain.

So yeah, it's really interesting. We're in a

Katie: And yeah, like I think we are, and human brains do like unhinged thinking, whereas, AI is going with algorithms and blending existing things where just I want to do this for no reason.

carys: Yeah, I just want to,

Katie: I just want to.

carys: I'll give you the top three benefits of this and if you want, I can turn it into this. I'm,

Katie: want me to draft an email? No, stop it. Stop it. Yeah. so I knew you were in the theater, but I didn't realize you were an actor. So that's very exciting to hear your kind of journey from being an actor to.

Being an illustrator, and also I feel like marketing is very creative, so it doesn't surprise me that you're in a marketing role part. Is it part-time?

carys: It is, yeah. It's four days a week at the moment, I think. Yeah, to speak to both of those. I think even thinking about the different revenue streamers as an illustrator, I think the different sort of hats you can wear as a creative. [00:31:00] Can and should be maybe varied as well. So I think in, even in my own head, I was very much like I'm an actor, that is it.

I must take it very seriously and maybe had not think, thought about bringing in some of the other things. I'm interested in it in 2023 just before I had my son and I haven't really made any theater work since, but I worked on a show. That I wrote, but that also had some of my drawings in it, like animated behind me when I was performing.

And I was like, that felt like a really exciting, mishmash of different things I'm interested in. And like I'm really I'm really interested in having to, in doing potentially more of that as I grow up, like writing my own stories and illustrating those or thinking about how things could be different forms.

Oh yeah. And I wrote some music for that as well with with a proper composer. But, thinking about the different forms that things can take is really cool. And I think, and jumping back to freak flag, I think that's why [00:32:00] IL really latched onto some of the stuff that's in that course, because it's not just what pictures do you like?

It's oh, but what, I don't wanna give away too much of what's inside the course, but think outside the box about what's inspiring or like what has made an impression on you. And that could be like my granny's, I don't know, jam that I used to spread on my toast and dah.

Like it doesn't have to be what you'd expect or like within a certain box. And I think that's, I think that is. I dunno, something that excites me, I guess as a creative and a person that does lots of different, has lots of different interests and like different things. And yeah, with the marketing thing, I think I just snuck into this role because I had.

Copywriting on my cv, and I'd done marketing in theater before, so I, and then I've, now I'm, yes, I'm within the corporate beast, but I maybe can bring in some creative insight as well. So yeah 

Katie: it's like prime example of the creativity comes out everywhere and your experience, your life experience, then your actual [00:33:00] work experience all blend together into this thing that is your creative voice, which you're constantly excavating and finding and building on, and.

Refining. So it's so inspiring to hear, and I know there'll be so many people listening that are also actors or they're also in marketing or they're also just, in a place where, they're figuring out how to balance having a child and finding that creative voice. So it's been so good to to hear your story.

So thank you for sharing it also so generously.

carys: you are welcome. It's been so nice to chat to you. And yeah, hopefully it's helpful for people to just hear. I love, I'm so nosy. I love hearing other people's like paths into illustration and honestly,

having come to illustration a bit later in my life, so like late twenties, I guess when I start, when I made the shift I even then was like, I'm too old. I haven't gone straight into this, so I'm gonna fail. And what's been really nice is that's so not the case. And I've met so many illustrators that have come.

To this career in their, twenties, thirties, forties, fifties [00:34:00] and plus. And that's so exciting to me that you can it's never too late to do it and actually bringing whatever you've done before and your life experience. There's lots of graphic designers, there's lots of architects, there's some people that have come from science, like so many different career paths before being illustrators.

And that's actually just giving you. More to feed into your your creativity and your freak flag, which is Yeah. Really cool.

Katie: Yeah. The more experience of actual life the better. I see. So it's this brings that extra richness into your work. Yeah.

carys: Yeah, I think so. And again. Yeah. 'cause we are all different and that's what's, that's what's nice. That's what's exciting. That's why we're not ai.

Katie: Exactly. Yes, a hundred percent. And what? Good message to end on. Like it's not too late ever.

carys: Oh yeah, definitely. And I still need to tell that to myself 'cause I am a very impatient person and sometimes I'm like, oh, it's not going very quickly. And because I think everyone's quite strict on themselves with their [00:35:00] own careers maybe. Maybe that's just, I don't think it's just me.

So you can easily think, oh, I'm not doing very well. I'm not doing as well as so and I should have done this by now. I should have done this by now. But actually, if you take a step back, I think. So I have to remind myself it's actually not too late. And actually it doesn't matter. 

Katie: Yes.

carys: when you start just start.

I think there's a Julia Cameron quote about that. I can't remember it exactly. So I'm gonna paraphrase, but it's if the only difference between starting and not starting is that if you, oh, I can't remember. No, it's I can't remember. I'm too old

Katie: bed's gonna be so good. Was it, what is it?

carys: it's like something about if you feel too old to start, you're gonna be just as old, not starting or something like that.

I'll have to find it and send it to you afterwards.

Katie: Yeah, we could put it in the show notes

carys: Yeah, I put in the show notes. She's so wise, but yeah, I think that's a good one to think about as well. It's like you may as well 'cause if you don't do it, you're still the same.

Katie: still be old.

carys: Yeah. You're

Katie: gonna be old anyway.[00:36:00] 

carys: It doesn't

Katie: I love that. Yeah, it's a bit like that one, like the best time to plant a tree was 25 years ago, but the second best time is today. That's a good

carys: Ah, yeah.

Katie: Which is,

carys: that's what I'm thinking of. I'm just making up

Katie: the one you're gonna be old anyway. Might as well be old than star.

carys: Yeah, exactly. So

Katie: Be like a mean version. Yeah,

carys: Yeah. The mean version, there's nothing to lose, yeah,

Katie: a little Julia Cameron, slap on the butt.

carys: Yeah. Yeah, exactly. Failure is so part of it Yeah. As well, because you learn from doing it. If you don't, if failure was gonna stop you trying, then you're never gonna see what hap could happen.

Katie: Definitely.

carys: Like making bad drawings is so important as well. 

Katie: Yeah, because they're sure that you're doing it. If you haven't made any bad drawings, you probably just haven't made any drawings.

carys: Yeah exactly that. And it's okay. You can just start again. Doesn't matter. Throw it. You don't even need to throw it in the bin. You can just turn over a new [00:37:00] page in your sketchbook and it's fine.

Katie: Yeah. Plow on anyway.

carys: Yeah, exactly.

Katie: Oh, thank you Caris. I'll put all your links and things below so everybody can come and stalk you in a friendly way. I think, yeah you shared the links. We've got your website and your Instagram and you've also got a Substack that's exciting adventures with a pen. So we'll send everybody your way.

So go and have a look and, I dunno, say nice things to.

carys: That'd be lovely. Thanks so much, Katie. Great to chat to you.