Brave Good Shippers at Bologna - we shoved a microphone in these illustrators faces 😆 (part 1!)

Interview #1 is with Paulina Zawiska and Kate Osmond.

Interview #2 is with Lorna Burt (begins at 05:30)

Bon apetit! 

We just announced the winners of our iPad giveaway and art supply shop vouchers - come and celebrate the winners with us over on Instagram! https://www.instagram.com/thegoodshipillustration/ 

Timestamps:

00:00 – Welcome to Bologna (the audio isn't perfect but neither are we 🤪)
00:30 – Paulina’s third time… still overwhelmed
01:30 – The illustrator wall and comparisonitis
02:00 – Kate’s first time and top tips for arriving
02:30 – Portfolio reviews: exciting or terrifying?
03:15 – Should you approach publishers at the fair?
04:00 – First Bologna experiences: sensory overload
04:45 – Making a plan (being brave)
05:00 – Good Shippers in the wild 🥹

05:30 – Lorna’s story
06:30 – “You need bears”
07:00 – The work that felt most you = the work that landed
08:00 – Not all feedback is equal
09:00 – Researching portfolio reviewers before you listen to them
10:00 – The danger of trying to fit the mould
11:00 – Letting your “weird” lead the way
12:00 – Using courses to reset when you wobble
13:00 – From fashion designer to children’s book illustrator
14:30 – Fast-tracking your learning vs figuring it out alone
15:00 – Pitching stories

In these interviews we talked about the Find Your Creative Voice course, fly your freak flag! As well as the Picture Book course and last, but not least: Illustration Business Club. 

(Doors to illustration business club will open again in September/October so get your name on the waiting list if you want to join in next time.

Come and say hello!

✏️ @thegoodshipillustration
🌏 www.thegoodshipillustration.com

p.s. We love answering your illustration questions. Click here to submit your question for The Good Ship Illustration Podcast 🎙

Transcript

[00:00:00] Welcome to part one of our Bologna interviews. Please forgive us on the audio quality of these. We were in the really super busy bologna fiera, so if you can hear background noise, that is why. Enjoy these brave people who agreed to let me shove a microphone in their face.

Hello. I'm here with Paulina and Kate it's Paulina's third time at Bologna. And it's Kate's first time. So I wanted to know Paulina, how are you finding it? Year three, I third time in the row. I am in record breaking.

I'm unprepared every single time. I promise myself I'm going to be prepared and every single time I feel super overwhelmed. But this time I've got business cards and my little [00:01:00] portfolio. So progress. So progress. It's progress. I mean, I think it's overwhelming every year. Even if you've been here like a bajillion times, it's so hard not to compare yourself to others.

Even coming in and seeing the massive wall illustrators and you just, you just a tiny, tiny, little fish in the sea. It's. Yeah. Overwhelming. But then you could flip it and be like, there's so many opportunities. 'cause you see all the publishers and genres. That's exactly what we're talking about working here.

Yeah. And such a range of stuff like so creative and so many different color palettes and yeah. It's really inspiring but also overwhelming. I was gonna say, how are you finding it? Yeah. What did you feel like you kind of knew what to expect? 'cause you knew Paulina. Yeah. I, I asked you And then I also looked at loads of guidance online to see what to bring.

I listened to your podcast. Yeah. And then. Well, I guess we arrived quite late, so it's a little bit calmer. So arriving in the afternoon is maybe a good idea On, on the first day. Yeah. Top tip. Yeah. Yeah, because it's, we arrived at quarter a past nine, and it was insane. Like people were elbowing each other out the way to get to the illustrator's [00:02:00] wall and like, yeah, you did the right thing.

I think that would've stressed me out a little bit, especially if you coming for a few days. It's nice to go and see where you want to go, where the publishers you wanna speak to are, and then come in the next day when you're fresh and actually not fried, but like, yeah, because we had quite an early flight.

What's your plan for the rest of the week if you've got meetings booked, or are you just here to suss it out? I managed to go on, it was like getting Glastonbury tickets, so going on the Eventbrite when they released all of the, the like workshop spaces and things.

So I managed to put two portfolio reviews, both with illustrators and then I think I've got two with like a toy company and a stationary company. But I don't know if, I don't know what that will be like. Such good going well done. But then I might be freaked out after it. It could either be very motivating or a little bit demotivating.

So we'll see how it goes. Take it all with a pitch of salt. 'cause everybody's so busy I feel like they're just like "next". Yeah. And it's hard to know if you can just. Go up to publishers and be like, Hey, would you mind looking at my portfolio? Whether they're really busy doing all the rights exchanges. So yeah, [00:03:00] that's true.

I'm not sure. Have you spoken to any publishers? Like what, what do they feel like when they speak to illustrators? Are they like, oh, let me do my work, or? I think they like it 'cause they're genuinely looking for new talent and stuff, but then they are also like the busiest they ever be. Yeah. Like Helen's been telling people to send samples after the fair when they get back and they're a bit more relaxed.

Right. So it's a good thing to think about, but I think, yeah, they do. Like speaking to illustrators. Yeah. Okay. Yeah, that's a good tip. Yeah, we just need to get brave. What was it like when you first came to Bologna? I, I was so overwhelmed that I literally couldn't come back. I did one day and I was like, Nope, we're done.

Were you comparing yourself to others or was it more like, it was more like sensory, like just so many people. The lights too much to look at, and then also about like. Where do we even begin? Yeah. There's so many things and, but then after I had a day off to eat gelato and roam around day three, I was like, okay, let's go back.

I can do it now. Yeah. Yeah. I feel [00:04:00] like we are going to regroup when we, when leave here, we are going to make a list of what we want to achieve tomorrow. I've got a list of publishers I wanna go to and just shove my, my cards in front of them and please, please take them. Yeah. Yeah, that's the plan for me.

Good show. Yeah. Is it nice having a base? I feel like that must help. It's a good base. Yeah. Yeah. And it's nice. People could come and visit us like you, have you expected that many people? No. So we had goodie bags and we've given away over 700 already and we had tote bags and we've had to hide them and we're gonna figure out how to give them away.

'cause we've only got seventy one bags left and there's three days of three full days of the fair lift. So we need to figure out what we're doing about that. It's a good sign though. Your courses are so popular. Yeah, we loved lots of people saying that. They've just listened to the podcast and then that's them like getting into getting into pub, like getting books published from just the podcast. So that's really good.

Amazing. It's crazy 'cause you guys started, was it 20? 20? Yeah, 2020. It's insane. It's your business minded, aren't you? Soaking up. Whatever you do. And I'm like, I'm [00:05:00] going to follow Katie steps. This works. Oh, you guys. I did the children's book course with good Ship.

Oh, and you've got the business one, haven't you? No, the business one, I'm waiting for September. September, yes. Yeah, I can't, I'm waiting for that one, but I'm doing Freak flag, but every time I start, I get sidetracked by commission, so I'm like, okay, this time after, after Bologna, I'm going to be inspired.

I'm going to be ready. I'm going to go straight on Freak Flag. I mean, that's why we do the lifetime access. So that 'cause life happens I'm the same, like any course I do, I'll start doing it and then I'm like, oops, get distracted or get busy or. You know, tired and then you can come back and do it again.

Yeah, that'll be amazing. Thank you so much.

Hello. I'm here. Lorna Burt and we are talking all things freak flag. So Lorna, do you wanna, we had a chat just before, didn't we? Yes. And I was saying, have you had any exciting meetings or portfolio reviews? How's that been going? Yeah, some really exciting meetings here at Bologna. I just had one yeah, a few minutes ago, and that's why I came to, to see you because I had a bit of a strange [00:06:00] bologna last year and felt and felt kind of flat about my work, but that I had to as a lot of illustrators here that you, you need to tick the certain.

Boxes. You should have, uh, you know, you should have bears, you should have I feel like some of the feedback they give out is a little bit random, but it's, people aren't as such time pressure, aren't they? If it's a 10 minute review or even a longer one. They're just, they've seen so many people that they're like "right, next!".

And, push you into a very you know, you must fill this box. You must tick the box. You have to have this, you have to have bears. So, interestingly, the work that people have really loved and sort of connected with since I've been here is all the work that I actually, that poured out of me since doing the finding your creative voice, the freak flag course that I did with yourselves, and and I think that's still the work that I'm most proud of.

And so that project that I brought here last year with all my messy sketchbooks from the Creative Voice Course. I think I, I just met with the, the wrong people or the wrong timing, but this year that's been really well received [00:07:00] and so yeah, I'm excited to go back to my desk and just yeah, make, make more of this stuff that it feels like it is me, that, that just kind of poured out of me from the course.

That's so good. Yeah. I suppose so. That's a good point. Do you have any advice for other illustrators? I know you mentioned maybe researching who you speak to before you speak to them, or? Definitely. I, I think what I didn't do, uh, well at all last year was really researching who you're gonna see beforehand, because I have a lot of friends that have ended up in, in tears because they've, they've gone to a publisher, but maybe they've met a stressed out sales or Right.

Person that, that, you know, they have a look, but they might say, oh no, no, it's not for us. Or they, they can be, or you can get some feedback that, it's the taste level perhaps is, isn't quite the same taste level, so they're never gonna get you anyway. Yeah. So now that I've, I'm researching beforehand because some of the feedback I got last year , some advice was really, [00:08:00] practical advice about how you might use art materials.

Things like that, that 'cause there really aren't rules out there. You can use, use a crayon anyway. You can use a crayon with, uh, o overlaying in a way that feels right for you. But, but I, if you're playing and having fun, I think that offers through more than anything, isn't it? Yeah. Just no rules. Just no rules.

But I, so I definitely thought, oh, I'm using. I'm using crayons wrong but so you go away And then I, what I did was research that person that had given me that feedback that I really kind of struggled with last year. And then I researched that person, I saw their work and I thought, okay, that makes sense.

Your work. So clean and so neat and very lovely. But it's not, you know, it's a, it's such a different thing. It couldn't be more removed from, from my work. I thought, oh, no wonder you thought my work was, was too loose for you. You know, like when the, when the line moves over the watercolor or whatever. And I thought, oh, so maybe it's not, maybe it's not wrong.

Maybe it's okay to be wobbly [00:09:00] and, uh, you know, and have, make, you know, make letting the ink bleed over. You just have to find your people, do your research. Because I think a lot of people come here with trying to as many reviews as you can, trying to see as many people.

Less is more. Try to see the right people because you can lose heart if you see somebody and get some. Unhelpful feedback. That's, that's, yeah. It could really have a strong impact on you. Yeah. Yeah. I think it's a bit like with, even with life advice, you know, if somebody tells you something, it's almost worth looking at their life and you're like, actually, do I want what they have?

Yeah. Do I wanna listen to what they're telling me to do? Yeah. It's, it's the same portfolio reviews, like, not all advice is equal. And for some people it'll be perfect advice and for some people it'll be like derailing. Totally crushing, but yeah. Yeah. One of the things with the freak flag, we're always like trying to get people to trust themselves and listen to themselves first.

'cause it's so easy to hand that over to somebody else and be like, what is, is this okay? Like that sort of thing. Not that you [00:10:00] did that, but like, you know, people. Yeah. I, I've definitely spent a year doing that. So, so I then after, after last year's experience was painting. Oh, okay. So I need to do bears.

Okay, so how do I do a bear? And it's so stiff. So the work that I've been trying to do to fit the mold, it's so stiff and I can see it. And when you compare it with the work that I've been doing on the freak flag, then people are like, oh, what's that though? Show me that. So I'm showing that work and so good.

And then, oh, so this, this feels more exciting. That's different. I haven't seen that here. Today and that is more memorable and that feels like that's something that's poured out of you. And I was like, oh yeah, it did. It did. Can you say it poured out in an afternoon?

Yeah, poured out in an afternoon like a whole series. And I felt really good about it. And because from doing that course, it's like the first, I think it's the first two modules, isn't it? When you're just like extracting all these things really like, yeah. Look at, you're interested [00:11:00] in basking your weirdness and like letting it out and it's really.

Nothing to do with trends, nothing to do with commercial viability. It's just like, what? What are you into? Yeah. What feels really fun and exciting to, to do or talk about or think about. 'cause it's not even drawing at that stage, is it? It's just like, yeah, it might be visual 'cause we're all visual people, but like.

Just dig in, see what is there. Yeah. Just blinkers off. Yeah. And free reins. No rules. No rules. Just go no panic, no uses as many different media as you like, or just one, whatever. There's no rules. Yeah. And and just enjoy it. I think that's the key. Don't box yourself in. Yes. And and then the great thing is, after that experience last year, because with the course.

I'm able to just dip back in and then go to my favorite modules and just do them again. So anytime I've had a wobble, then it's been so nice to have that course there and all the, all those inspiring videos that you can watch of the, the talks that are in there, [00:12:00] and it's all just there to dive back into.

Loosen back up again whenever there's been a wobble. Yeah. 'cause it happens and it's like, yeah. There's always times where you're just like, what am I doing? What is this? Or somebody says something. I'm so glad That's, and that's why we did the lifetime access.

'cause we thought we're always gonna be adding new things and improving it and we don't want people to be excluded from future rounds and as life happens or. Busy or whatever, but yeah. Are you feeling like raring to go to get home in the studio? Bing to go, yeah. Yeah. Can't wait to get back to my desk.

Yeah. And have you got any more meetings lined up or anything for Yes, a few. A few. And I've, since I, I I did your picture book course as well and and I think that's, that's definitely helped me be more industry savvy and we, yes. Because of the whole getting discovered module isn't there, getting discovered module and, and just sort of.

The awareness of how your, like the pagination of your text and the relationship with your illustration to the writing. Just, it's just sort of made me feel more, made [00:13:00] me feel more ready to start submitting, made me feel more like I understand how this, how this thing needs to function. And so yeah, that helped me apply for the golden Egg Academy 12 month course. So now I've got the, the writing side as well as the illustration. So that, that, that's so good. Oh, because Golden Egg is writing, isn't it? So the Golden Egg is just writing, it's not an illustration at all, I think the reason why I got onto that I'm sure is because I.

Done be the picture book course before. So then I had an understanding from all of those modules about the 32 pages, about the, you know, the practicalities of it as well and, and the thumbnails, how to lay it all out. Before you did the Picture book course, how did you feel about all that stuff?

Or how did you feel about picture books in general? Yeah. Or picture books? Uh, what I wanted to get into. Yeah. But I just had a lot to learn. I felt like I had a lot to learn about the industry. So 15 years [00:14:00] as a fashion designer. Wow. It's a completely coming into a completely new industry.

Completely. And it's a, it's a niche of illustration that I wanted to get into, but I knew I had a lot to learn and at my age I thought, this could take me years. Maybe I need to just do a course. There's a lot of pitfalls. And I wanted to learn quickly and intently, and I need to do it at home because I'm still working as a freelancer.

So it's that balance of I couldn't commit to going to a university or, you know, college every day. Yeah. So it worked around my lifestyle as a working mom, so that then. I felt like I learned a lot very quickly doing that. That's good. Yeah. Because you, you could go out and learn the hard way, but if somebody else is like, don't do this, avoid this, this will help so much.

Yes, yes. You can totally do it on your own. Yeah. But it is just would, I'm sure it would've taken me a lot longer just personally myself. It would've taken me a lot longer to get to where I am. Yeah. And I and then I managed to, I had. It's uh, three stories finished that I then pitched to [00:15:00] Amazing Joe Williamson at Golden Egg to get onto their mentorship, which then I've got in for the mentorship.

Got a place on that. And you've just finished that. So have you've got even more story finished? Yes. Just. So I've got even more, I've brought the manuscripts with me as well as illustration. Now I feel like a author illustrator. I can come here and bring my work. That's so good.

It's so inspiring to meet you in real life. 'cause I know we've seen, I've seen you online and things, but like to meet you and hear your story in person, it's so cool. Yeah. Lovely to meet you too. Yeah. Yeah. Thank you so much. Yeah, thank you. Good luck.