0:00
foreign
0:10
can you do like a little intro a little
0:13
bit about yourself a little bit about
0:15
the company yes um I'm nogi co-founder
0:18
of thought about I'm also the CBO of the
0:20
company
0:25
those thousand Birds is a BL gaming
0:28
developer publisher and then cover 2
0:30
studio in one meeting Japan in Tokyo and
0:33
one in the US but U.S is all remote we
0:35
don't have any offices
0:37
and we currently have a two games right
0:41
then one is a solo fighting game called
0:44
assorted Gargantua and then one day it's
0:47
called archive breaker which we just
0:49
launched on the PlayStation PR2 platform
0:52
and then now our USA studio is making
0:55
the hero based shooter called X8 that's
0:58
what we're expecting on soon then we
1:01
actually uh planning the quote beta 2
1:04
next week from the March 27th couple of
1:07
words about yourself what do you do sure
1:09
yeah my name is daxberg I am the VP of
1:13
us Studios for third verse
1:21
um are we have two Studios one in uh
1:25
Tokyo which is an in-house studio and
1:27
then the US Studios is really kind of a
1:30
global Studio we're all remote
1:33
um on our team we have up to 13
1:35
different countries actually that we're
1:37
working with so we're very uh very
1:39
remote but we're working our main title
1:41
right now is a game called X8 tell us a
1:44
little bit more about it X8 what is it
1:46
what kind of game is it sure uh X8 is a
1:48
VR heroic shooter uh five versus five
1:51
multiplayer so the idea for those
1:55
familiar not familiar with heroic
1:56
Shooters would be kind of like take the
1:58
hero styles of a fighting game but put
2:01
those in those heroic Styles put those
2:04
into uh you know a shooter a first
2:08
person shooter OverWatch is a good
2:09
analogy OverWatch is a good analogy the
2:11
balance is a good analogy
2:13
um those style of games so so X8
2:16
um kind of the quick narrative behind X8
2:18
is it's a uh it's an old game engine
2:21
that has a lot of first-person shooter
2:22
hits
2:24
um and as the time goes on no one is
2:26
making games out of this game engine
2:28
anymore it becomes kind of self-aware
2:30
and it it um kind of eats a part of
2:33
itself and then pulls all of these
2:35
heroes from all these games back into
2:37
its engine and they have to fight
2:39
amongst each other to get their games
2:42
booted back online
2:43
so tell us a little bit about
2:46
what's going on in the VR Market
2:49
currently because
2:50
even last year when I was here at GDC a
2:53
lot of people were saying that
2:55
VR is kind of like
2:58
sort of like a new mobile meaning that
3:01
there is not really that many games but
3:04
there is already sort of some kind of
3:06
demand and a lot of people are kind of
3:08
moving into this space they feel like
3:11
it's an interesting opportunity yes tell
3:13
us a bit more sure so so when we first
3:16
launched the sort of garden control
3:18
that's a
3:20
2019 and that was actually the quest one
3:24
launch date and
3:27
um we also saw the request to launch
3:31
um then we saw how hype the software
3:34
sales so device launching devices always
3:37
expand the market so I think this year
3:40
is another big year for the BR because
3:43
there are two big devices coming up one
3:45
is a Precision BL2 which is just launch
3:47
it and then Chris we definitely they're
3:50
coming this coming Q4 that's why uh
3:52
we're expecting another hype of the
3:55
market close yeah that's why we are
3:58
focusing on product launch this year
4:00
and um as you may know Quest 2 is
4:03
already the sold 20 million units that
4:08
is actually 20 percent of the Bitcoin
4:10
console gaming like uh Nintendo switch
4:13
something and um it's already uh the
4:17
chat caught up is Xbox devices and that
4:21
is actually the beer of the decent
4:23
Market already so it's actually monitor
4:26
uh you know was to do the business
4:28
that's why I think people are starting
4:30
jumping the market again
4:32
so you work as a publisher and probably
4:36
a question that a lot of Publishers get
4:38
it what do consumers want what do they
4:41
like what do they want in terms of VR
4:44
experiences what are the tastes like
4:46
because I feel like there's a lot of the
4:48
books who don't really know they don't
4:50
really know the answer to this question
4:52
so our team member has kind of a variety
4:56
of experience from from the non-br
4:59
device for example I'm talking more like
5:02
a PC Mobile gaming developer publisher
5:05
and then our studio head Dax is more
5:07
like console gaming experience but I'll
5:09
be our actually quite unique because
5:15
not have then one is
5:18
yes of course of course you know uh you
5:22
are in uh the in the game because I
5:25
always say the no bigger game
5:28
experiences you only can have through
5:31
the 2D monitor but uh in the BR you're
5:34
in the game actually that's a big
5:36
difference first and then other big
5:39
things is we always say that
5:41
it's our interaction got a non-br gaming
5:45
you just use
5:47
controller Mustang keyboard on top of
5:49
three on the new just uh the control
5:53
game character 3D monitor it's more like
5:57
a southern person view but uh in a beer
5:59
experiences you are going to be a game
6:02
character itself but then you you touch
6:04
object then you kill enemies mini stop
6:07
the two that's totally different
6:09
experience then uh we we know there's
6:13
already many BL gamers in the market and
6:17
then what they uh most expect is more
6:20
like a new experience you know flying
6:23
you know climbing but it's already
6:24
exists but uh they are certain people
6:26
one of the new experiences that's we are
6:28
trying to generate
6:31
so kind of like I guess a noob question
6:33
I'm one of those people who gets
6:35
destroyed in any competitive on live uh
6:38
right and then I think about trying to
6:41
do this in VR and I feel like my chances
6:43
are even smaller so how do you make this
6:46
work in VR that it's not disorienting
6:48
and then you understand where you're
6:50
going because like we mentioned there's
6:52
like 360 degree and you cannot be
6:54
attacked from all over yeah lots and
6:56
lots of options
6:58
um yeah I had a big meeting several
6:59
years ago with Jason Rubin
7:01
um from from meta and he said to me the
7:05
more options you can give a player the
7:07
better they'll be comfortable with so
7:09
for example movement Styles
7:11
um smooth turn is one way some people
7:13
have to play with smooth turn As you
7:15
move and look you kind of turn the way
7:16
you want to go I can't play that way at
7:18
all I need snap turn snap turning with
7:21
the flick you can decide how many
7:22
degrees of rotation you want to have and
7:25
you can set that anywhere from 15 to
7:27
1090 degrees on Snap so there that's
7:30
just one style movement the style of
7:32
locomotion Comfort settings we have a
7:35
massive amount of options in our game to
7:36
custom fit the player so that they feel
7:39
the most comfortable in the game as far
7:41
as the game itself it is a competitive
7:43
game so there is a learning curve
7:46
um but we do have a very extensive
7:48
tutorial and a practice mode to allow
7:50
people to feel very comfortable learning
7:53
all of the abilities and the things that
7:55
you do within the game before you jump
7:57
in
7:58
uh do you guys feel comfortable
8:00
launching the multiplayer title do you
8:02
feel like there's enough players on the
8:04
market right now that are craving
8:06
multiplayer experiences and you're not
8:07
going to end up with like a Lobby that's
8:09
half empty uh we we do uh you know with
8:13
like it's over 20 million
8:15
um devices for Quest plus we're
8:17
cross-platform so the idea of psvr2
8:22
um Quest as well as pcvr on Steam
8:25
um all of those players will be able to
8:26
enter the same Lobby and play together
8:28
do you use any particular like is there
8:32
any particular technological aspect to
8:34
like the networking and making sure that
8:37
it all connects or do you use some yeah
8:40
I mean we use a system called playfab
8:42
for our networking but there's a lot of
8:44
a lot of technical things to be able to
8:46
hook that up and make it run smoothly so
8:49
let's talk a little bit about from the
8:51
developers 10 point
8:52
when I think about
8:55
video games done for VR I think that
8:58
they are shorter in terms of session
9:01
they also have a little bit of a
9:04
different visual Style
9:05
and how those these particular elements
9:09
influence the cost of production and the
9:12
time of production is it as expensive to
9:14
build a VR title as you're building like
9:17
a game for computers or is it cheaper or
9:21
maybe it's faster like what are the
9:23
advantages if you're trying want to try
9:25
to do a VR thing
9:27
that's good to ask to dark small but uh
9:31
of course if it's maybe there are no
9:33
advantages that's also an answer but if
9:36
you try to make a high degree definition
9:37
content of course costs gonna be really
9:40
higher gotta you know every single beer
9:43
is a 3D you know and the 63 a 360
9:45
environment so you have to you know
9:47
touch generate everything that's why or
9:50
lower simple visual should be uh uh more
9:55
reasonable to develop that that uh data
9:58
sense of the development in appears so
10:00
far
10:01
how do you think
10:03
games like
10:05
Alex are made like what do you feel like
10:07
it costs to do a game like that you know
10:10
half right box yeah that's crazy you'd
10:13
remember the course it should be 100 or
10:16
200 million something
10:17
that we you can not do right now it's
10:20
not affordable to do you're talking
10:22
about cross-platform
10:24
um what kind of Technology do you use in
10:27
terms of rendering like do you use Unity
10:28
or unreal we use unreal unreal tell us a
10:32
little bit about how unreal Fields
10:34
itself in the VR
10:36
um the platform it adapts pretty well
10:39
we're not on unreal five we're still in
10:42
4.262 I believe
10:44
um we do have a VR version of unreal so
10:47
there's a small kind of plug-in
10:49
specifically for VR and then on top of
10:51
that we we add our own little bits of
10:53
flavor uh to to help with the game but
10:57
uh but I'm real it's done done well for
10:59
us we really we really feel like that's
11:01
where uh you know the game engines are
11:04
moving and a lot of our our story is
11:06
based on a game engine so it's kind of
11:08
funny we we use a lot of unreal you know
11:11
Meta Meta Meta exactly exactly so
11:16
in terms of like customers and when
11:19
you're going to Market how do you how do
11:21
you suggest approaching you know
11:23
Community Building how do you approach
11:25
kind of ramping up the Market to make
11:29
sure that the sales are started like day
11:31
one and so on what are the tools that
11:33
you could use to make sure that your
11:35
game especially a VR game is successful
11:37
down the line like do you work more with
11:40
platform do you work more with the
11:42
community do you need to have a large
11:44
marketing budget maybe a lower marketing
11:46
budget so
11:49
um we already launched two titles and um
11:53
we learned a lot and then current our
11:56
concept of the game development is more
11:58
like Community Driven but uh of course
12:01
we work with the platforms such as you
12:03
know mirror also Steam and the Sie for
12:07
the Precision be after but uh of course
12:10
we need their support but we are making
12:13
contents which we are selling to the
12:15
consumers so
12:16
current our approach is uh trying to
12:19
talk with interact with more communities
12:22
and then try to get more feedback and
12:24
then try to implement our game I think
12:26
that's the key and then that they have a
12:29
direct answer as well they want to do
12:31
when they want right that's why
12:34
um we use social media also Discord and
12:39
then and um
12:41
then uh the ability to community over
12:43
there then interact with them what do
12:46
you think about Platforms in general
12:48
like what is the platform to go to if
12:50
you want to be successful in VR is it uh
12:53
kind of meta stuff or is it a
12:54
PlayStation or do you need to because
12:57
you can't cover all of them like at
12:59
immediately right so you need to
13:01
prioritize so where do you think the
13:03
focus should be so the idea ideally if
13:07
you can you know launch the old
13:09
platforms semester 3 then we can reach
13:12
out all users that's why that's an ideal
13:15
case but uh uh as far as we know the the
13:18
steering majority of share the metacrist
13:21
has
13:22
probably a 60 to 80 70 that's why
13:28
um I think there if you target Quest 2
13:31
primarily it's uh
13:34
I think you get more chance right now
13:36
yeah and then they can expand the other
13:39
platforms do you get a lot of support
13:41
from you know meta and the platform
13:44
holders themselves are they
13:46
you know are they featuring you more do
13:49
they provide you some extra support and
13:51
other like technical questions or
13:52
something like that yeah our advantages
13:54
are so I leave the I live in their
13:58
boarding game which is a mirror Excel
14:00
headquarters there that's why I interact
14:03
with them very often and our Japan team
14:06
the majority of people from the Sie
14:09
that's why we talk with sap partner
14:11
that's why we we have a more like
14:14
Information Program
14:15
now that's our advantage
14:17
I was in uh epic headquarters like I
14:22
think it was like five years ago or six
14:23
years ago and
14:25
they were really heavy on showing their
14:28
VR stuff and they were using
14:30
uh VR basically in engine so you can
14:33
build you know spaces using AR goggles
14:36
and stuff like that I'm not sure this is
14:38
it was more like a gimmick it would have
14:40
kind of like showcasing the technology
14:41
but do you feel like
14:44
technology companies are really
14:46
embracing more VR right now like do you
14:49
feel like companies like Adobe you know
14:52
like
14:53
uh I think it I think it Ebbs and flows
14:56
I think sometimes there's a push and
14:58
then it goes and VR is is is trending up
15:01
but it's done this the whole way right
15:03
so it's just finding that time and space
15:06
for when there's enough adapt you know
15:09
early adopters that then fully Push It
15:12
Forward right I look at the same kind of
15:14
analogy of like you know
15:18
beta or VHS you know it's eventually
15:20
like one of those hits and then that
15:23
adaption moves and then you've you've
15:26
got everybody eventually will launch
15:27
into it so I see the VR space as
15:30
eventually how the mobile market was
15:33
circuit kind of 2005 2006 uh where it's
15:38
it's inevitable that will will will
15:40
really launch it's just exactly when you
15:43
mentioned while working on X8 you have
15:47
um kind of distributed team
15:49
what are you looking in when you're
15:52
trying to hire a developer like are you
15:54
just looking at their heart skills do
15:57
you want to people from particular
15:59
region because it's better for your
16:02
um you know yeah for for time zone for
16:05
for us on our team we
16:07
what works best for us is anything
16:10
that's not kind of in the Japan
16:12
Australia kind of Realm because we have
16:14
kind of a core set of hours usually from
16:17
about 7 30 in the morning Pacific time
16:20
uh all the way to to noon or one and
16:24
those are times across the globe where
16:25
most of the people are going to be
16:26
active and on and then the rest of that
16:28
time they fill in to kind of finish
16:30
their full day so we have some people
16:32
starting earlier in the day and and
16:34
they're ending their their you know
16:35
their day or their evening uh um in in
16:39
all the way in Eastern Europe all the
16:40
way to you know uh the Pacific coast is
16:44
there enough uh people right now who
16:46
know unreal and are also comfortable
16:48
with VR or do you feel like there is
16:51
like a need for more whatever it is it
16:53
is sometimes difficult it was very
16:55
difficult hiring the right kind of
16:57
networking because you're looking for
16:58
someone who has VR experience you're
17:00
looking for someone who's unreal
17:01
experience you're looking for someone
17:02
that has play Fab experience you know
17:03
there's that that that gets a lot
17:06
smaller as you kind of go through but
17:08
um you know we have a lot of really good
17:10
uh developers who have who have the ones
17:13
that didn't have a lot of VR experience
17:16
um have really learned the game and the
17:20
Dynamics and the and and and the design
17:22
part of it and and the reason for a lot
17:25
of the tactile experiences
17:27
um and then you know others um have have
17:30
been in it you know as long as I have
17:31
and and have been really fascinated
17:34
since all the way back to the the dk1
17:36
launch
17:38
okay so kind of like last question for
17:40
you is when when you're browsing through
17:43
pitches when you're browsing through
17:45
projects what are you looking for like
17:47
how do I sign a contract with you what
17:50
do you need from a developer
17:52
uh oh so sorry what if you're looking
17:55
for a new project what are you looking
17:58
for does it has to be a team with a
18:01
proven record does it have to be an
18:03
interest in IP does it have to be a
18:05
particular style or maybe a technical
18:07
quality that you're how do you know that
18:09
it's you want to work with this company
18:12
and make a game
18:13
cutting a company called The Vision is
18:17
try to create a metaboss it could be if
18:21
we can describe a little bit more detail
18:22
uh it should be kind of
18:26
RPG type of game so many people know
18:30
access at the same time but uh that was
18:33
we need a more like a server technology
18:35
but uh it's as I said as I said in the
18:37
city 60 environment it's hard to print
18:39
many people that we have to do also
18:43
um no
18:45
more like you know more
18:47
the major physics combat and shooting
18:51
mechanics many things you have to
18:52
implement it that's why we're making
18:54
solo fighting game shooter game also
18:57
um to um
18:59
make a beer market popular I think we
19:02
need existing eyepiece that's why we are
19:04
also talking so that's a main Peter we
19:07
are trying to implement again is VR
19:10
development Big in Japan currently
19:13
is it like a a lot of companies are
19:16
doing it or do you feel like it's still
19:17
like a smaller niche
19:20
uh it's getting bigger but I'm not
19:25
there are another mini uh PR specific
19:29
developers in Japan but it's expanding
19:31
right now but uh ideally the big console
19:35
gaming guys like you know Capcom economy
19:38
Sega if they those guys if they see us
19:40
and jump in the market the data time I
19:42
think is no more biggest expansion I
19:45
think Capcom was doing some work and
19:46
like with the Resident Evil series yeah
19:48
but we are they just provided IP they
19:52
didn't make it oh they didn't do it yeah
19:54
that type of cool project with the
19:55
mirror I feel like when you're looking
19:57
for developers one of the things
19:59
everybody's saying that you need to have
20:01
passion you need to have passion you
20:03
need to be very you know engaged and so
20:06
on
20:07
um do you feel the same way or maybe
20:09
there are some things like passion that
20:11
sometimes it can hurt but people get
20:13
burnt too often or they kind of
20:18
get sold in one idea and then you can
20:21
push them from it like and do something
20:23
else yeah I mean that comes a lot with
20:25
just design there is
20:28
there is a passion to make sure that the
20:30
game is not just a port from you know if
20:34
you were making OverWatch you were
20:36
making valorant or you know oh we're
20:37
just going to Port that into into the VR
20:40
space we really want a lot of
20:42
interactivity so we we call them uh
20:44
gvris Global VR interactives that we
20:47
have to have in the game so we're trying
20:49
to make sure that the things that you do
20:51
you're not just clicking buttons but
20:53
you're interacting or you're you're
20:55
enhancing or you're moving in different
20:57
ways and get given a lot of different
20:59
physicality however we do base the game
21:02
around being very
21:04
uh wait it's not room based so you can
21:06
turn and spin and take a step side and
21:08
leans right but you don't move
21:10
throughout the throughout the room uh
21:13
you'll need to and the reason behind
21:15
that is that our game lasts or anywhere
21:17
from 15 to 20 minutes for a full match
21:19
people play a couple matches in a row
21:21
and I still feel like in some ways
21:23
gamers are inherently lazy where they
21:25
want to be comfortable but still want to
21:27
play a lot of times so we keep that
21:31
a pivot point there and and you're
21:33
stationary but we do have a lot of
21:36
movement from your your Center standing
21:39
so a final question you have a lot of
21:42
this media ideas that there's a game
21:44
engine this kind of became Salient and
21:46
the he starts to stand something though
21:49
where does that come from and do you
21:52
feel like market right currently is
21:54
ready for kind of these kind of story
21:56
pitches so on because it sounds like
21:57
what you're saying is basically it's uh
22:00
it feels to me it's like there's like
22:02
this audience that first of all knows
22:04
what a game engine is and it's large
22:06
enough to you know get you enough
22:09
players I I think post uh epic fortnite
22:14
where unreal became its real own entity
22:18
and has grown very big I think the cat
22:20
like an average video gamer knows what a
22:23
game engine is these days
22:25
um and also the narrative on the game is
22:27
a pretty small part of the actual game
22:29
itself so the game mechanics themselves
22:31
with each hero having their own heroic
22:33
abilities and the casting system that
22:35
you use it's not really adhering to a
22:39
narrative is that narrative is a nice
22:40
way to kind of put it all together and
22:43
and make it fun and make it have some
22:45
sort of background sense thanks for
22:47
enjoying another episode of the 80 level
22:49
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22:53
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