Finding the Hero in Your Husband | Guest Dr Juli Slattery Enneagram 5

All throughout February we will be talking about relationships and how to go about them in a wholehearted way. 

Dr Juli Slatterly joins us today on the Simply Wholehearted Podcast. We are talking about the art of finding hero characteristics in your husband. 

Get ready for some healthy marriage tips that you’ll want to start trying today! Think of tuning in as a gift you can give your hubby, to help you see the hero he already is to your family.

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What if transformation doesn't start with trying harder, but with knowing you're already beloved? In my new book, Wholehearted Enneagram: The Journey from Type to Transformation as God's Beloved, you'll walk alongside nine women, one for each Type, through stories, Scripture, breath prayers, and tree metaphors that reframe what growth re

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SPEAKER_01 1:31

Hi, I'm Amy Wicks, a Jesus and Enneagram enthusiast. As a wife, mama of three humans, and a fur baby, I get it. Juggling entrepreneurship in a family is challenging. But I believe the Lord does want your work to be enjoyable. As an Enneagram Type 7, I am all about the fun factor. And this podcast is here to help you put the joy back into working mom life. So you can see 1 Timothy 6.17 come to pass in your own week. It's a verse that says, God has given us all things to enjoy. All? Well friends, it means all. Motherhood, work from home life, or work out of the home life. With the Lord's help, there's truly a way to feel calm, balance, joy, clarity, and peace in any arena of life. Welcome to the Simply Fullhearted Podcast, where you can expect solo-style and interview style episodes that are full of faith-based concepts, simple ideas, Enneagram insights, alongside practical tips to help you put that smile back on your face when it comes to doing life with Jesus. Now get your headphones and head to that big pile of dishes in the sink, or maybe that bathroom that needed cleaning two weeks ago. And let's get to learning together. Hey friends, Enneagram 5 Dr. Julie Slaughterly joins us today on the Simply Wholehearted Podcast. We're talking about the art of finding hero characteristics in your husband. And it's such a beautiful concept. All throughout February, we're going to be talking about relationships and how to go about them in a wholehearted way. Whether you've been married for a month or 27 years, this is definitely an episode you won't want to miss. Get ready for some healthy marriage tips that you'll want to start trying out today. Think of tuning in as a gift that you can give your hubby to help you see the hero he already is to your family. Sometimes we can focus on all our husbands' not so good things, and then in the process totally miss the blessing they are. But um I think that takes a special skill.

SPEAKER_00 4:08

Well, truth be told, most of the time now we record in a controlled setting and we pipe in the coffee shop noise after. I love it. But in the beginning, we did do coffee shop always. Um when I lived in Colorado, we had a great setup there, but now we have to get creative.

SPEAKER_01 4:27

Yeah, so you say you lived in Colorado. So what I like to ask sometimes is if my friends were peeking in your window, not in a lurking way, but peeking in. Give us a glimpse of what we would see and what life looks like in your neck of the woods.

SPEAKER_00 4:43

Wow. Well, I live in Ohio now. So right now it's beautiful out because we've got the fall colors and some sunshine and it's cold. But daily life, we are empty nesters now, Amy. Our youngest son just went to college. So um you would see two little dogs that you probably you there's a chance you might hear them say hi at some point during our conversation. And um, my husband and I both pretty much are working at home right now. So yeah, that would be some of what you see. You'd see me surrounded by lots of books. So yeah, those are some clues.

SPEAKER_01 5:18

I love it. So, what took you back to Ohio, if I might ask, because I also lived in Colorado Springs for 11 years. And now that I'm in the Midwest, people are like, uh, why did you leave those?

SPEAKER_00 5:31

Right. Yeah, I get asked that question all the time. And what part of the Midwest are you in? I'm now in Kansas City. Okay. So it could be that your answer is the same as mine, but this is where I'm from, and just aging parents and wanting to be with them this stage of life and just family. So uh family has a way of bringing you back.

SPEAKER_01 5:51

Oh, absolutely, it does all the time, and it's beautiful. I mean, how wonderful to have those kind of relationships that we want to go back because I know that's not the case for everyone. That is very true. Yes. I love it. Well, we here with the Simply Wholehearted podcast, we didn't start talking about the Enneagram when I launched almost five years ago because, well, it's February, and next month will be the fifth anniversary. Can't believe it. But when I started, we we didn't talk about the Enneagram ad nauseum, or I didn't really know that was going to be part of what I did here, but now we do. And we love it because it doesn't put us in the box. It actually the Enneagram is a tool that frees us from the box, helps us understand each other. And what we're focusing on this month is it helps us with our relationships. So why don't you share with us a little bit about your Enneagram journey? Have you figured out your dominant type? What was that experience like? And how has it helped you?

SPEAKER_00 6:52

Yeah, so uh, so I was first really introduced to Enneagram. Let's see, it was probably two years ago. I was speaking on a cruise and one of the other speakers was speaking on the Enneagram. And so I was like, okay, well, why don't we take it and figure out what we are? And um, I'm definitely not an expert, but I feel like I feel like I understand my um number, my husband's number, my kid's number, and it's helped me a lot, like especially in marriage. So my top number is a five. Okay, yeah, yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 7:27

Totally makes sense.

SPEAKER_00 7:29

Yes, and it really made sense for me because I have always felt I also have a really high nine, which I don't know if that's a thing, but I was almost neck and neck. Five was just a little higher, but it really helped me understand that like the nine in me always wants to please people, but the five in me always feels like I don't have enough space to think, and so I always have this conflict of man, how am I gonna get alone time? But I don't want to say no to people, and so that really helped me understand um that core conflict that I have and make room for myself to be that five and to realize, no, that's just I need that to thrive. So, and then I found out my husband is a one. Okay, he has a real high seven too, and I'm like, I can see one and seven in him, and I know you're not supposed to have like two numbers, but he likes everything just so, and um, he likes to perfect things and is very organized and um has trouble with like, no, it's this is right. Why wouldn't everybody agree with it? And my way's the right way, yes, but then he also has this really fun side where if you met him, you'd be like, Oh, he's the funnest guy and super relational. And like when he's on vacation, I used to call him vacation mic because that fun part would come out. He'll even say, like when he's organized in the kitchen, like, isn't it nice to be married to a one? You know, because your temporarily cover is organized, and so they've been good handles for us.

SPEAKER_01 9:01

Yes, oh, I love it, and it totally makes sense to touch on the the fact that your husband feels like a one most of the time, and then a seven in certain things. The line of health for a one is actually the seven, and so when they're doing well, when the Holy Spirit is doing their work of sanctification in their life, you see that seven show up. Wow. Uh yeah. And so when the the stress is off, when the lid is off, right? Of what his his hat of what he has to do kind of gets he gets to take a break from that, it it makes sense that the seven would show up, definitely. Good. That's cool. And also the McCords, who are known as your Enneagram coach, they're the people who train me. But uh they're coming out with a book this year that explains how Enneagram is not static. While we may have our dominant type that we kind of hold to the belief that we were innately given and born with, we really we move in and out of some of the types, whether they're direct line to our stress or growth, but also based on our family of origin, maybe some of the gaps we had to fill, um, either in our family now, the way our relationship works with our spouse or um different elements like that. So I love I love getting to hear. I think the five makes so much sense. Um just with how you have poured yourself into your work, how you have you are so knowledgeable and you're a wealth of information on the topic of intimacy and all of that that it touches. So um I I think you're doing a great job with really utilizing your strengths.

SPEAKER_00 10:39

Oh, well, thank you. That's that's an encouragement. Uh yeah, and that's I'd love to learn more about the Enneagram because some of what you're saying is like, yeah, I could see that. That makes a lot of sense.

SPEAKER_01 10:50

Well, one of the things that we're gonna get to here in a little bit, I have really appreciated in investigating the Enneagram. For me, my line of health is a five. So I love being around healthy fives because I feel like it shows me what I can aspire to be more like. I can take time to savor, slow down, really know the information before I just fly off and like share what's ever on my mind.

SPEAKER_02 11:17

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 11:18

So so for me, diving into really training myself in the Enneagram over the several years, but in connection and and in juncture with the gospel message, uh, one of the pieces has been understanding how we relate in our most intimate of relationships. And I think that has been really, really helpful to the women that I've counseled, not only in my living room, but over Zoom and and even in different conversations, passing conversations, because this topic of intimacy, especially as it pertains to marriage, is a hot topic. It's a confusing topic, and it's often riddled with confusion, especially in the Christian culture.

SPEAKER_00 12:00

Yeah, I would say that that's very true. You know, intimacy is all about feeling like you don't have to hide. And so um, I'm sure the Enneagram both identifies like who our core self is without hiding, but also maybe ways that we hide, like uh sort of those relational coping mechanisms that keep us from being known. And so um, yeah, I think I think personality tests like that, and you know, they give us language for okay, yeah, like we all have some things in common, but we also have uniqueness and getting to the core of that uniqueness and being able to embrace the uniqueness that God made us with, but also made our spouses with, instead of being frustrated all the time and trying to change them.

SPEAKER_01 12:46

Amen. The key here being trying not to change them. Yes, yeah, this is good. Well, admittedly, when your new book came across, well, really old new book came across my desk. I was like, this is fantastic. I love Julie. I've been probably a listener since the beginning of your podcast eight years ago, which is hard for me. You said eight years, and I'm like, holy cow, is that true? But it's true, I I believe. But um, part of it was like, dang it, what thing do we talk about? Because there's so much I want to talk about. But we're gonna focus in on hearing about your book that um it came out last fall, or and again, it's it's the new old book, and you can tell us a little bit about it, but it's called Finding the Hero and Your Husband. And I felt like it was so perfect to kick off this month as we focus on relationship. It's an evergreen topic. It doesn't just have to be for the month of February, but um I know a lot of this the core theme of it too is what you just touched on here is not focusing on changing them. So before I just continue talking, I would love to hear about this work, about this book. And then you're gonna kind of cover some of the barriers to intimacy and help us work through them because we need help.

SPEAKER_00 14:06

Yeah, yeah, we all do for sure. Yeah. Um, so the main theme of this book is, you know, kind of starts out with that women tend to feel disappointed in marriage pretty early on when their husband doesn't turn out to be exactly the way you hoped he would be, uh, marriage is more difficult than you thought it would be. And then women just get frustrated. And a lot of what we do with that frustration, particularly in the early years of marriage, is we do try to fix things. We try to change him, we try to tell him over and over again what we need and how he's not living up to those needs. And the theme of the book is that if we are using our relational power that way, then we're really never going to build intimacy. That our greatest power is not in pursuing and articulating what our relational needs are, but actually understanding and building into what our husband's relational needs are. And so a lot of times women will work hard at marriage, but they're actually sabotaging the thing that they're trying to work towards. So that's sort of the overarching theme.

SPEAKER_01 15:08

Yeah. Whoa, I mean, that's that's pretty heavy. So, what are some common things that we do to self-sabotage?

SPEAKER_00 15:15

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 15:16

So we don't mean to, but we do it.

SPEAKER_00 15:18

So part of it is understanding, like for most guys, one of their biggest fears is failure. It's man, I'm gonna let everybody down. I'm not good enough at work, I'm not good enough at home. It's a more of a core struggle than it is for us as women. Yeah, of course, we don't like failure, but we tend to be more within intimate relationships, we tend to be more concerned about being unloved or abandoned. Men tend to be more concerned about like she thinks I'm just a doofus. Uh, and and I think in our day and age, even the commercials and the sitcoms we laugh at. The men usually are painted as the one who don't they don't have it together. The woman is more, she's more on top of things and kind of snarky with him and critical. And so one of the biggest mistakes that we make is we use our relational power, we use our words to basically be telling our husbands how they can be better. And they hear that as, you don't think I'm good enough. We think of it as no, I'm just telling you how to meet my needs or I'm just expressing my frustration. But for men, that is that is like devastating. It would be like if I were to go buy a beautiful dress for my anniversary, like a sexy dress and put it on and get all excited, and uh my husband were to see it, and he'd be like, Yeah, it's okay, but you know, make sure it makes you look a little hippie. I mean, when am I gonna ever make myself that vulnerable again? Because he just said something that really wounded me when I was really trying. And a lot of times guys feel that way within the marriage and family realm, like they're trying, but all their wife sees is how they're not doing it right. And so they constantly, through words or nonverbals, or even the lack of affirmation, make the husband feel like you're not the hero. And that's just devastating to again the energy it takes to build intimacy in marriage.

SPEAKER_01 17:17

I know you have some really good advice for this because I can hear the friend who's saying, okay, that's well and good, but I don't want to walk on eggshells. What if there's some things that I do need to talk about? How do I address it? How do I tackle that?

SPEAKER_00 17:31

Right. So there will be some things you need to talk about for sure. Um, talking and chipping away at your husband are two different things. So, one analogy I like to think of is in your marriage, you're building a bridge and you have to lay down the planks of the bridge. You can only walk as far as you built. And so speaking life in your husband, just like understanding his need to feel like he's doing a good job and you respect him, you know, that's a kind of a trigger word for some people, but that you you just you see who he can be and you see his strengths and you're speaking into those. Every time you do that, that's laying a plank down on the bridge. And you can only walk as far as you've built. And so when you have to address the difficult issues, and you will have to address them, that's where you walk. So a lot of women have not built the rapport with their husbands and the trust that their husbands have that no, she's on my team. Like she's not trying to be critical. She wants the same thing I do. Um, she loves me. Her heart is not to tear me down. So now I can listen to concerns she has, even if they're heavy concerns. And so we've got to, we've got to in some ways build the right to be heard when we talk about those hard things.

SPEAKER_01 18:50

Why do you think respect is such a trigger word? Because you said that, and I know that to be the case in a lot of respects.

SPEAKER_00 18:58

Yeah, yeah. I think partly because of the way it's been used and because it hasn't been explained. So women here respect your husband as a command, you know, from pastors or books, like, you know, just it's this arbitrary thing of well, what if I don't respect him? And um, he's got to earn my respect. But what they don't understand is that respect is speaking directly to that fear he has a failure. So a woman has so much power in her husband's life to either speak words of life or death to him. And um, one of my favorite verses in the Proverbs is Proverbs 14:1 that says a wise woman builds her house, the foolish one tears hers down. Um so when we think about what a woman is doing with her power, she's got power, she's she's building it or tearing it down. And so most of us, um, when we engage with our husband, we're not trying to tear him down, but out of our own frustration, out of just being busy, we just tend to say words that tear that don't build. Um, and so it's really understanding that, like one way I put it is imagine if your husband is waking up every day with the unspoken question, do you think I'm a hero? Am I your hero? And you are the only one who gets to answer that question. And let's say, like, if you say yes, it gives him sort of the confidence to go through the day, to risk and fail at times, to engage with the kids, you know, try to step into leadership. But if you say no, or I'm not so sure, like he's the one walking on eggshells. And so a lot of times what we do is we have our husbands walking on eggshells more than we are. So respect is really the commitment to say, you know, day in and day out, yes, you are my hero. Like we've got problems and and we've got things we have to address. And yeah, sure, that's the reality of marriage, but I choose to believe in you and we're gonna work this stuff out. So it's it's the attitude of the heart. That's what respect really is. And when we don't hear it explained that way, it just feels like an archaic kind of command that we're supposed to just kind of shut our minds off and just say, yes, dear, whatever you want. But that's really not, that's not what what the scripture really means when it calls women to respect their husbands.

SPEAKER_01 21:26

Yeah, absolutely. I know you also talk about submission in your book and I mean several other key things that I I know that women who are married just would find invaluable. So I won't dive into all of it for the sake of time, but if you would give us some of the idea of what you cover here in this book and what we can expect as we put maybe this copy in our Amazon cart and we go ahead and like, all right, we need to do this for us.

SPEAKER_00 21:53

Yeah. So um, so first of all, you're gonna hear this concept of power explained. Where do you have power in your marriage? Where does your husband have power in your marriage? And then what are ways that you use your power well and poorly? And one way that women use their power poorly is kind of how I've described where they become um manipulative or nagging, or they just kind of take over or they become sarcastic. But women also can use their power poorly by not doing anything, by not confronting when they need to, by not using their voice, by not uh challenging their husband to grow. Uh, you know, you're not only husband and wife, you're also brother and sister in Christ. And so um we want to be like iron-sharpening iron and just helping each other grow. And so it really looks at those two mistakes of not using our power and the what that leads to, and then really using our power to stay in control and what that leads to it. And so the first half of the book is all about that and really how this concept of submission fits into there. The second half of the book is application. So it's looking at like how does this apply at home with housework and parenting and in-laws, how does it apply at work, you know, my career versus his career, how does it apply in the bedroom with sexual intimacy? So it's more the practical put it into play kind of thing.

SPEAKER_01 23:17

I love it. I'm definitely a practical girl. I do appreciate how the layout is kind of the vision, get the vision for it, and then here are the steps to follow. I think it's um I think it's so helpful. And for you, give us a little too. You this is a relaunch of the book. So did you is it an expanded edition to what was out there previously or just an opportunity to share it with more people?

SPEAKER_00 23:42

Well, Amy, I wrote the book 20 years ago. So I was a very young wife. I think it was over 20 years ago. And so the principles in the book were ones that I was really searching for when I was that young wife and young mom, and really seeking the scripture, applying psychological principles. And the book just sold over time and it kept selling and people kept buying it, even though it was 20 years old. And I had done some refreshes early on of the original one, but but I was like, man, I know the concepts in the book are still so needed, but they feel the book feels outdated to me. Um, the examples and even things have changed in 20 years.

SPEAKER_01 24:27

Yeah, a lot.

SPEAKER_00 24:28

The dynamics of marriage has changed. We're even questioning gender in our day and age, the internet has changed things. So I honestly just rewrote the whole book from scratch. I took the same principles, um, the same concepts, and said, if I were to write this today from my vantage point as that older woman now, given all the changes in our culture, what do I say? So it's a complete rewrite.

SPEAKER_01 24:55

I love it. And what a, I mean, talk about classically tested. I mean, like you talked about, it's been selling, it's a question as women are asking because we are looking for a hero, because we innately desire to have this message, our heart longs to hear, that longing fulfilled. And we go through life looking to get it fulfilled and our parents, maybe relationships, and then our spouse, maybe then our kids, but right now, as we're talking, so we want our husband to fill that need, but he's human. And so I even thought, as you said, you know, what if we turn that message our heart wants to hear? And instead of looking for the ways that they're missing it, looking for the ways that they are fulfilling it. And those are the things that we can call out and celebrate and use as planks to build that bridge as you you talked about.

SPEAKER_00 25:47

Right. Absolutely. We all respond better to positive input than we do to criticism. So, you know, going back to the dress analogy, if my husband were like, wow, that's the most beautiful dress I've ever seen. You're gorgeous, like that would make me want to go dress up again. And you know, it would give me confidence. And the same thing is really true, particularly in these areas that our husbands are so vulnerable in. And there's so many women who are saying, Why won't my husband step up? Why won't he lead? And I just want women to understand that yeah, we have a part to play in that in inviting him to step up and encouraging him to become the hero that he wants to be and that we also long for him to become.

SPEAKER_01 26:29

That is so good. Yeah, there's just so much wisdom here. And speaking from someone who is only 17, is it 17 or 18? Uh, you know, somewhere in there, years of the marriage. I am looking, I'm desperate to find uh someone who can mentor, who can mother, who can coach me in this arena. And I love that you've taken what you uh almost attempted in a way, the content that you attempted, you've lived out, you've tested, and and now you have like some serious street cred to say, hey, I think I know what works here and what could help you.

SPEAKER_00 27:09

Yes, yeah, yeah. That's the one good thing about getting older is you kind of have an idea now of what works.

SPEAKER_01 27:17

Yeah, and certainly what doesn't. So I'd be like, all right, listen, women, let me help you out. Yep. Uh I love it. Oh, this is so good. So maybe you did get this book once. Maybe you've been married for several years, someone gave it to you or you picked it out. Maybe it's time to go ahead and get a new one because we wanted the we want the updated revised edition for sure. Um, but as we close in here, I would just love to hear maybe, you know, what is the one thing maybe you didn't say yet, or maybe there's three things that you would love for us to essentially put into action today. What are some of those practical ways that we can find the hero in our husband?

SPEAKER_00 27:56

Yeah, I think one practical way, and this is something that we all need reminder of, is to remember that you know ultimately God, Jesus is our hero, and that our husband was meant to, in some ways, be like a mini-me of him. Um, you know, that's how God created marriage. Ephesians says, husbands love your wives as Christ loved the church, but that ultimately, if we're not building that relationship with Jesus Himself, we are going to feel depleted and discouraged. And so that relationship with the Lord is what really fuels us to say, even though marriage doesn't feel good right now, like I have the strength to build in. And I think also just recognizing that you know, marriage is hard work. And part of the reason it's hard work is because God really wants to teach us what it is to love each other. And if marriage were easy, we would never learn what it is to love. And so even in the hard seasons, our pain doesn't have to be wasted.

SPEAKER_01 28:59

Wow. Okay. So if my friends weren't already taking notes, just pause right here, go grab your pen and paper, play that back and write this down. Julie, this was so, so good. Thank you for just helping us kick off this month of focusing on relationships, reminding us um what a gift we have in marriage. And even though it may not be perfect and it may not be what you wanted, it can be um even better when we take time to be intentional and um just take time to seek out some of this wisdom too. So thank you for sharing. Well, thanks for giving me the opportunity. Did you find this episode helpful and healing? And pray that the Lord leads people to each episode that they need. And if you're listening today, it wasn't by accident. If you found this conversation with Dr. Julie helpful, I encourage you to share it with a friend. You can do this through text, social media, direct message, or email. Someone's marriage or motherhood could be drastically changed through you sharing a podcast episode with them. I encourage you to be on the lookout for the Holy Spirit's prompting of what episodes to share with who in your circle. An action step I have for you today is to look for a hero quality in your husband and then tell him what you saw. As the saying goes, a compliment unsaid never helped anyone. So let your hubby know what you appreciated about him today or this week. I pray this week finds you pursuing growth over perfection and lots of grace for yourself. Until next time, continue to pursue perspective, purpose, and plans for a simply, wholehearted life.