Episode 006: Self Love Special Delivery with The Parcel Savage, Ryan Fitzpatrick

Giving thanks for delivery guy extraordinaire, Ryan Fitzpatrick aka @parcelsavage on Instagram, delivers self love wisdom for Black Friday and Cyber Monday weekend. He discusses his own healing journey and tips for self love and healing with some great recommendations to add to your already full reading list with Pete Walker's Complex PTSD: From Surviving to Thriving, Full Catastrophe Living by Jon Kabat-Zinn, and Radical Acceptance by Tara Brach. We talk about yoga, kinstretch, meditation, inner child work and relationships, among other things! Join us! 

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Transcript

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ryan is that you? Good morning. Oh, there, there you are. Let me start this video here. You know, it's technology better living through technology taboo. I, yes, I agree. It's so nice to meet you. It's great to talk to you because I haven't, I've never been able to talk to you in a long form. We've only talked online briefly. So this is a real treat. Thanks for inviting me to the chat. Same. It's a real treat for me too. it's always a little bit of a toss up when you haven't talked to somebody before and you're like yeah, the world is running by these zoom meetings and I'm just catching up, but I've realized that a lot of good stuff is happening on these zoom meetings. So, yeah, I know I had not ever hosted a zoom meeting until I started doing this a few weeks ago and I was like, I have no idea what I'm doing. I've seen what you're doing. I love what you're doing. I think it's great to have more conversations about all these topics, because frankly now is the time for us to do that. Might as well, right? Yeah. We have nothing better to do apparently. Except for you. You are busy. Yeah. I am busier than ever. And it's just been a completely nuts year, but, I have a vacation week this week, so, and you're spending some of it with me. So thank you. Happy to do it. You're welcome. So what's, you're on vacation. Ish. Are you going anywhere? yeah, I'm going to camp. I live in just outside Boston. So around here. The big outdoor playground is the white mountains. They're pretty close to us. So I'm going to go up there and camp for a couple of nights. and that's, that's about it. A lot of these vacations are like, I'm squeezing in all the doctor's appointments, you know, that's, just sort of like a delivery guy thing because we're working like. Max hours every day. So just sorta crossing things off the list, but definitely excited to get back up into New Hampshire. New Hampshire is open to us travel. Yeah, it's, it's kind of a weekend warrior time with everything kind of being half. I was in Chicago last weekend and I feel like only a third of places were open and. It was so weird. It was very weird, but, well, how is this podcast going and how can I help? What can I share? This is so you, so you, I want, I feel like we have some things that are probably threads that are in common, and I want to know how you do life. I want you to share how you do life, how you take care of yourself, how you take care of your mental health, your physical health, your emotional health, because I feel like the more we share that stuff. The easier it gets to talk about. And also it's just really helpful to people. So, yes, I agree with that statement. yeah. Well, thanks. It's an honor to be on here. I do, agree with that statement. I think it is, uncomfortable for people to talk about caring for themselves. I think that a lot of this comes from. this notion that we have about the transactional nature of stress, which is actually a legit concept, I've been reading back into Jon Kabat Zinn's, writing, full, I think it was a full, full catastrophe living is this book that I've dipped into over the years. And I've been going back into it now. And. It's a great book to, to sort of set out the mindfulness, explosion that we've, we've gone through, but it goes through the research and the efficacy of what it means to be mindful and to have stress hardiness in our lives against all the BS coming at us. And there's this account of stress that is the transactional nature of stress, like, Oh, like I've been super stressed. And it's like, I've been withdrawing money from the bank and now I have to put money back in the bank. So I'm going to do self care. Hmm. Yeah. And you see a lot of social media posts, extolling self care. And when I see that, I'm like, you know, yes, like that is the transactional nature of stresses it a legit thing. But. What's uncomfortable to talk about is that it's not that easy. Like it, it's not so easy where, Oh, you know, I've just beat myself up for a workweek. I'm going to go have a spa day, you know, I'm going to go get, you know, w you know, whatever we do, like a, you know, for a guy, I guess, you know, I just beat myself up for a week. I'm going to go drink a 30 rack. Yeah. And watch football all and all, although drinking beer and watching football is very nice. I just did some of that this weekend. Yeah. Yeah. You know, like a little bit like to have that be the end all and be all is not the complete picture for me. Yeah. So my, the what completes the picture a little bit more for me in my experience is I have to do things. To re personalize myself like the stress of life is depersonalizing. Yeah. And, I have to actually fight back, make decisions to fight back and re personalize myself, so that I feel like a person again. And, you know, that's uncomfortable for people to talk about. I think. and I also think that a lot of people don't necessarily have that problem. I think that people who are in a strong community who grew up loved, who had, you know, who have been around nurturing environments or who are currently in a nurturing environment, they actually might not need to work on that. That makes sense. Yeah. Like they might not need to actively shake off their stress by, you know, doing mindful activities or mindful movement, you know, like they might be good to go. They might be good to go. but for me, just because of the like extreme stress in my job and, you know, growing up, I had a challenging childhood where. You know, I didn't quite feel like a person necessarily. I have to sort of build that into my life. So, one of the ways I take care of myself is I, I guess we would call it loving myself is I try to, to do yoga once a week. Yeah. and you know, for me, it's yoga because yoga is it's, it became almost like a consumer decision for me at first. Yoga was so readily available. Right? Right. Okay. It's the lowest hanging fruit and it's, it was sort of a great transactional self care thing. Hey, you beat yourself up all week. You go to yoga once a week on Sunday, right? It's like really simple church. They go. Absolutely. Yeah. So, you know, yoga is that thing, but I can see a, you know, I've met a lot of other people who it's, whatever Pilate is, or, cheek gong, felled in Christ, the bar, you know, any sort of like group activity. That's also a little mindful, I mean, soccer. Yeah. You know, whatever, whatever. But so for me, that's, that's usually yoga. I'm sort of like a thoughtful meditative guy anyway, so that fits my personality. So I am a yoga teacher. although I have no time to do that. so that's one of the ways I take care of myself and because I work a labor job, the other way I try to take care of myself is, through fitness. And, for a while I was sort of relying on yoga to provide a base level of fitness for me. Yeah. It's better than nothing, but it's not necessarily the best for, for, for what I do. Right. so, I'm also, like a Mo mobility instructor, I'm a Kinstretch instructor. And, I, one of my future goals is to become a personal trainer. I've been doing a lot of personal training, again, a lot of weight training again recently. And, You know, that's so that's another way I try to take care of myself is the, like the physical component, as opposed to more like the yoga and mental component. I'm curious. What, what point did you come to, this is what you needed to do. Was it a drastic I need to change now? Was it a gradual kind of this isn't working for awhile? How, how did that work for you? as far as, like the, the mind body stuff, which is, that's sort of the mind body stuff has enabled me to, to grow a lot more, as a, as a human, as a, as a, as a person. And as far as that goes, I had an injury on Achilles injury and at work we walk, you know, I'm a delivery guy. We walk about. You know, seven, we could walk seven to nine miles a day, usually on my routes. which is, that's a good amount of steps, right? Like people who count their steps, that's actually like a healthy amount of steps, you know? Yeah. And, so having an Achilles injury, having one of your wheels busted up was, I was just like, wow, like full stop. You know, my life went from a hundred to zero and. You know, I was, I basically just sort of sat around, going to physical therapy for months. And then I was like, what the heck can I do to try to, to try to get a little bit of movement into this body? And so I, with your love for the parcel during this time, I know I wasn't parceling. I remember there was like a, it was in the winter and I was like just sitting around and. You know, I remember a massive blizzard heading and I was just thinking, Oh man, I could be out in this look like I could be delivering in this. I'm missing out on this. But I limped into a yoga class. And that was sort of the beginning of actually doing mind body stuff, which is. I consider it like holistic or preventative medicine, things that you do to think outside the box diet, you know, alternative movement. Yeah. and, yeah, so limping into yoga was the first, my first interaction with all of that. and my second yoga teacher was, Mo a Marine guy is a retired Marine. Ripped dude. and I just sort of went down that path of learning more and doing a ton of yoga, doing a ton of meditation. I've been meditating for. I think it's going to be like a decade now, maybe, but maybe approaching a decade with my meditation teacher, serene and Chris, So I've just done a LA a volume of that type of stuff. The most amount of stuff like that you could do without leaving greater Boston. Yes, but I also remember being a younger man and watching a documentary by bill Moyers about it was, it was on PBS. Okay. Bill Moyers is like this journalist guy. Yeah. And he had a documentary about gees. I wish I could remember the name, but it was basically on alternative healing, alternative medicine. and the way that in the eighties and early nineties, people were merging. The wisdom of Eastern medicine with our Western medicine, which is just like the Western medicine is just like, get it done. Yeah. And it featured Jon Kabat Zinn who was working at UMass Worcester, with the mindfulness based stress reduction program. And I remember watching that as a 17 year old boy and being really struck by it because it was nothing like I had ever seen before. so you know, this mindful movement stuff, I've always been interested in, and I think it's one part of the puzzle to that, to living a, a life where you actually care about yourself, right? Yeah. the meditation thing you were talking earlier about, what was it? The stress. Basically we're reacting to stress. Is that, am I, am I on close? Can't remember the phrase, stress, hardiness stress hardiness. Yeah. And I started doing meditation, I think, because of that, like how you were viewing yoga, like. I'm having panic attacks and anxiety attacks all the time. I get rid of it, like just a response, you know, and getting on top of all of that is, has really been helpful. but that's not what my meditation is for really. I mean, it's helpful for that, but I think a lot of us get into these kinds of things because we're so desperate. We need something. We need to change something. And we're just kind of grasping at all the little, all the little things we can do. So you're saying the mobility part is one aspect of how you care for yourself or love yourself. Are there any other things that you do that you aren't talking about regularly on Instagram? let's see. Those are, those are the main ones like the physical health and the mental health. Those are, you know, that's just sort of like the two prongs of the engine, you know, that I try, try to take care of because I'm revving my engine at like a hundred miles an hour all week. you know, I have also, I mean, I've, I've done talk therapy for decades and that is, You know, that people often use this phrase that they're doing the work, right? Like, Oh, I've done the work or I'm doing the work and you can be in therapy for 50 years and never make any progress. So, talk therapy, I believe can be very important. I think there's. A big challenge out. There's a challenge out there and a, an invitation out there. Cause right now there's never been a better time to do yoga and do therapy. All you have to have is a computer or a phone. Yes. However you start to do that stuff. And there's a lot of, you know, those things involve relationships or relationship with the yoga teacher and our relationship with. A therapist and those two things can go very wrong. Yeah. Especially if relationships aren't going well for us in general. Right. So, you know, when we're doing the work, whatever that is, it's, it's actually, you know, these one foot in front of the other type things. Yeah. And a therapist may or may not, may not be helpful. I think, you know, talking about, you know, self talking about caring for ourselves, for those of us who never felt cared for at all to be completely detached from our bodies. Like, you know, if, if nobody ever gave a crap, if you fell down and skinned your knee, like yeah. You know, that's that attitude is, is going to be there. No amount of talking with a therapist will take that away necessarily because it has to be internalized. So, and I think that that wisdom is in everybody knows that now. Right? So that's where the, the body component comes in. Just taking care of your body. Yeah. Whatever yoga, Pilates. Lifting weights. so, you know, there's wisdom there, but I do want to also say that there's real wisdom in what you said, reaching out for meditation. There's real wisdom in reaching out for therapy. Even if yet you end up with a therapist that, you know, you hate. You're like this guy is totally off the wall or this girl is totally off the wall. You know, there's wisdom there because it's the wisdom of reaching out for help. And it, unfortunately it can go really wrong when it goes right. Then, then you can, you can do some of the work. So I I've been in th you know, talk therapy for a long time and, using it as a tool alongside all those other things. Yeah. Are you, are you still in therapy? You actively. Yeah. Yeah. I don't. I infrequently, yeah. I keep thinking maybe I should go back and then there's that whole thing of like, no, I have the tools. It's very interesting. I agree about talk therapy. It's it got to that point where it's just like, I felt like I was spinning my wheels and I needed to add other things I needed to do. I needed to be. Also moving and stepping forward, which is what I love about what you do. You are in it every day and you're, you're stepping forward toward yourself. Yeah. At the end of the day, I believe in life, success is what succeeds. So when you to be able to have a goal and at least attempt it. Like that, that is what succeeds, if going to a therapist and talking about it is helpful. Yeah. Yeah. If going to, if getting a life coach is going to be more helpful than that, if going to yoga, you know, whatever, you know, whatever it is you're doing, you know, I think also something that, is it important when we're talking about self care, stress reduction? Reaching goals is that we have to, if we don't know already, we have to learn to trust our guts. So if you're like, yeah, like I don't really need the therapy right now, then it would be foolish to sit in a room and just stare at somebody if you don't need it. Cause you could take that hour and you could spend it starting a podcast. yeah, you could spend it going to, You know, doing whatever you do, going to the gym, going to massage therapy, any number of things. So there's, there is a natural wisdom there, if you know these cues and you're like, yeah, I don't really need to work on something right now by talking about it. Yeah. I mean, yeah, I think those, it isn't, it's interesting to me too, when I'm doing life and going through and taking the steps more stuff kind of from my past comes up, that is kind of lying dormant, I think. So I could definitely see the benefit and at least, you know, reaching out to a therapist once in a while and working, like getting, being able to frame up what it is that's happening to you in the moment from. The past. So yeah, I mean, I highly advocate therapy for that reason. continuing it, as long as you feel like you're moving forward. Well, I, there's not a lot of yoga studios that are open right now, but I. I love seeing a Wallaby yoga studio that has all the services available, lawn cutting dog, sitting social workers amongst them, right. Lawyer. Cause you're going to just by virtue of living in society, at some point, you're going to need a lawyer. You're going to need a doctor. You're going to need a physical therapist. You're gonna, you know, why not a therapist? So why not have the name of a guy therapists or a clinical social worker? Right. Just sitting around. I mean, it never hurts. Totally. You know, it's not like you have to go back. It's a, you know, almost like if you hire a guy to cut your lawn and he does a terrible job and I'm like, well, I'm not going to do that again. Yeah. Why not have a social worker that, you know, Hey, all these people think this person's great. Maybe, you know, I need to talk right now. Yeah. That's super helpful. It's and the embodiment stuff is really helpful with that too, because you can actually practice, even if you're not able to do it in the moment while you're in the room, but like practice, feeling how you feel in your body and your emotional state after, or even during being with someone, in that field, the whole trusting your gut thing. Yeah. Yeah. For real yoga. I first learned how to do that. I think in, in. Just spending a lot of time in yoga classes, know I'll never forget one, one class where, you know, went through a class and there was another student in the class and they never, like, they just sort of laid on, on their back during the entire class. Like that was what they needed, you know, who knows what they needed. But. Whatever it was. I was like, wow. I was like, that was such a strong decision. That person made like, you know, effort. This is what I need. I'm not going to do him a million down dogs. yeah. The other place that I learned to do that is in these trainings I took, this is sort of interesting, I think, because not many people talk about this. Okay. Not many delivery. Guys. Talk about this for sure. I took a bunch of trainings in focusing, which is a, you call it like a somatic approach to, sort of, roadblocks in your life. Focusing is this method similar to somatic experiencing and it was developed in the, I think it was in the seventies at university of Chicago. And it was developed like a little before somatic experiencing. And, you know, I think when I read somatic experiencing, you know, focusing is mentioned, it's, it's just another form of, another, it's just another method, you know, but I like it a lot because unlike. Somatic experiencing, unlike yoga, unlike all these mind, body things, unlike meditation, you go through focusing and you, it proceeds by just questions. So you ask questions. So it's a really not if, if you're the type of person who people are always telling you what to do, or you grew up and people are always telling you what to do. And you're just like F off, you know, like if you're that type of person then going to like a somatic session where people are going to use their expertise, knowledge on your body. It's just, for me personally, I'm just like F off, you know, but in a focusing session, it's more of a script that is very open ended. Yeah. And you sort of follow it, you identify what they call a felt sense in your body. So a lot of times let's say I'm feeling anxious about being on a podcast, called Love Me Lab, hypothetically, and I feel a real, I sorta feel tight in my gut. So I would identify that feeling. And then I'd ask a bunch of questions. I'd be like, you know, what is it? That's making me feel that there. And then I sorta just monitor. The progress. So of, of that felt sense in my gut. So it's sort of like a nice, I would say, gentle way to work through roadblocks in my life. And I got into it and went to all these workshops because my meditation practice was And, after I read a book, I read a book by Tara Brock. It's called Radical Acceptance. She's a pretty famous meditation teacher and clinical psychotherapist. After I read that book, she uses that focusing process to get unstuck in meditation. And I was like, Oh, well that works for her. Let me give it a try. And it really worked. So I stuck with it all these years. so I think that getting, Getting a sense of that gut feeling. If you weren't, let's say you don't have it. Let's say you get to adolescence and you don't have that yet. It's actually a skill. Yeah. It's a skill that is teachable. Normally our parents teach it. By being readily available to us, but let's say you don't learn that skill. You can learn it as an adult, you know? And that's, those are some of the ways I learned it, focusing and yoga. Okay. I love, I love hearing from you cause you always have, you know, like the origins of where things come from. Like I've been doing the whole focusing thing and I unknowingly. Yeah. How do you find it? How do I find it helps me? Yeah. I definitely helps me get in touch with myself. And also I find that it, if I'm stressed or anxious, it actually makes all of that dissipate rather quickly. It's like, okay, I'm here now. I'm here for me now. and it's okay. It's it immediately, for me, it just kind of releases any of that pent up stuff in my stomach or the tightness around my heart, whatever it is. it, it just lets me know that I'm I'm there. And I do a lot of that type of thing with inner child work asking, you know, a younger version of me questions. Yeah, could you, so I have never done that. Like formally, I don't know. Could you tell me like what that is? I picked up tips and tricks from other people, coaches or whatever, but, at times I know I have moments where I'm just like, I cannot figure out what's bothering me. I can't figure out why I'm anxious or why I might've had a panic attack, whatever it is. And just getting really quiet lately. I think because I've been in the practice, I'm actually having not flashbacks, but almost visions of me as my younger self at different ages. When I was probably feeling those things, something really similar. It's hard to describe, but I'm just getting into the practice of when I don't know what's wrong. I kind of name the feeling. I just named the feeling first. And then I kind of ask it what it needs to. You know, feel like it doesn't need to be on guard or to leave. and sometimes images of me at certain ages will come up then too. It's just kind of like being a little bit curious and opening that door or allows for more, more understanding and kind of Rush in as to why that thing might be happening in the present. When it may have been something that I got picked up from my childhood or, or earlier years, I don't know if I explained that well, but that's just kind of how I. Do it. And I noticed that a lot more of the time, my younger self is kind of just making an appearance. Yeah, no, you explained it really well. That that phrase, you know, curiosity is you can only be, we can only be curious if we're holding space for something and being a little detached from it and also not hurting it. Right. And, That makes a lot of sense. Yeah, yeah. Yeah. For sure. Thank you. Well, thanks for asking. I've never really had to put it into words. So, I mean, I know I write about it sometimes my experiences, but I have picked up things just from listening to other people and reading, whatever it is. Just little things you can do. And I'm not like I told you, I think before, I'm not as well read as you. I feel like you've got all the like knowledge base. Yeah, I know. I, I mean, just all these books here, listening on the podcast, I'm in front of a wall of books, but I haven't read all of them. This is really just to trick people. Yeah. Paper back there. Well, and I think that's part of the wisdom. Of self healing and knowing that, Hey, I've got to, like, I've got to fix something that's not quite right. Is you're able to take from different things and be like, Oh yeah, this is what, this is what my inner child work is going to look like. You know, I don't have a method. I have the method that I learned from a bunch of people. That's sort of like a very work woman Workman type way to. To do it, I think. And you know, success is what succeeds, if it's working for you, then that's very good. Yeah. I think a lot of us, I mean, we either try to hold on to those sensations in fear and just kind of hold on for dear life. Or sometimes we think, well, I just need to let this go. I just need to let this go. That's also not helpful because you're just. Delaying the possibility of working through and working that out. Yeah. And there's over the years, I, I don't, over the years, I've seen that type of behavior as bad, but I actually don't think it's necessarily bad. It's just right. People are choosing it for one reason or another. I think, I forget what podcast I heard this on. It might've been the trauma therapist podcast, but it was somebody on there. And they said that dissociative behaviors get things done. So if you're like, I don't want to deal with that. I don't want to push that away. Like that. That might be the best thing at the time. Yes. And I've actually made that choice a lot in my life consciously. I'm like, yeah. Not going to focus on this like this, you know? And I don't know, I'm not sure if I can swear on this podcast. Yeah, go ahead. Yeah. Like I always say it, you know, say it to myself. I'm like, dissociates the behaviors get shit done. Like if you don't have time to process and emotion, it's because you have to get shit done, you know, like yeah. And that's, that's totally okay. And it's okay to then come back to it later. I mean, some people do that. Until they die and it's just a way of living life. but I saw a couple of the books that have helped me with inner child stuff. basically I, I guess I would call it maybe like self parenting. Yeah. Is, is this book by Pete Walker? and he's like, it's a book mostly about, What you'd call C-PTSD, which is like not clinical PTsd but it's just sort of this crummy depersonalized way of being in life. And he talks a lot about emotional flashbacks in that book and this idea of a flashback, not as necessarily like an image of an event happening, but yeah. an emotional image coming through. Yeah. so when I started thinking about difficult, emotional responses of mine as emotional flashbacks, then I was able to get that nice little distance from them. And then the second book I read it years ago, and it was a real eye opener is the drama of the gifted child by Alice Miller. And before I read that book, I didn't think any. I was just like, yeah, like, you know, I've just got a lot of self regulation problems. It's all in my head, this, that, and the other thing, and Alice Miller wrote these series of books that people really love. And one of them is the drama of the gifted child. And it's not about a child who's necessarily. Gifted like, Oh, high IQ or like a sponsored pianist. Yeah. But it's a shot. Every child is gifted. And I read that book and I was just like, wow. You know, it's because I don't have children. A lot of people, when they have children, they can see how they would, they would want it to, to nurture their children. I don't have that. So that, that book gave me a nice little perspective that I, that I never had as far as taking care of myself. So those were the two resources that were really helpful to me in the whole, you know, self parenting and her child realm, but I've never necessarily done like what people say in her child's work. Right. You probably are. And don't even know it. Yes. I've quoted Pete Walker a few times. I've never actually read the whole thing. So I need that. I know that's, you're going to have a good reading list for me. It's good. You know, but this stuff is heavy, right? Yeah. Yes. One of the things, one of the defense mechanisms to feeling. Crappy feelings is over intellectualizing them to tell them, I don't want to feel this feeling. I'm just gonna read a ton of books about it. So that's yeah. So it's one of those things where you're like, you know, it might take a while to work through it a little bit at a time, you know, it is what it is, but it's do you have to put things down for a little while? Yeah. Yeah. For sure. It is a little bit like, Oh, I'm just going to over into a lecture, intellectualize this. And yeah. I find myself doing that all the time. And then I have to come back and say, no, just like, what do you need to do about this move? Not much not move on necessarily, but just keep moving forward and taking the next step. Yeah. Yeah. And it's a lot, it's the problem of momentum in life. And, if people who are always coming up against, you know, emotional flashbacks or people who, you know, I deliver to the, justice resource Institute, which is a really nice resource for. Children. And, people who are displaced have no homes. And now they're at a point in their lives where momentum, whatever momentum they had is at a stop because they've got to get saved. If you know, they have to escape an abusive situation. Yeah. Leave a home, find safety. And it's like, all right, like the momentum has stopped and now it's like, alright, how do we build momentum to something good. And, you know, there's wisdom in tackling the right problem at the right time. Yeah. That's so true, you know, sad, but true we'd like to solve all our problems at once. I'd like to solve all my problems at once, but it's like, Oh, you know? Yeah. Sometimes it does. It feels like this giant mountain or something in front of us. And. Or we can keep coming back around to the same or similar things and, and just learning to accept that it's gonna rear its ugly head, sometimes the same things. And, there's no race. It's not a race to get it done before anybody else. Yeah. Yeah. Thank you for saying that. Yeah. Our race is our life. Yeah. Yeah. Oh, everybody breathe well. Yeah. Yeah. So those are, I know, was there some of the things, the like books and like actual physical practices that have been helpful for me as far as, emotional regulation, resilience, stress, hardiness, All that type of stuff. Cause, you know, it's, if you will. And I think that if I, if I was just working a ton and a labor gig, maybe I need less of those, you know, maybe I would just need the yoga and not the therapy. Maybe I would just need, meditation and not the focusing, you know, you sort of pick and choose what you need. And, You know, but, I'm also sort of trying to parent myself and, and sort of deal with issues from, you know, Challenging childhood issues. So I'm like, you know, I'm bringing in the other things is that it's more like a mix of tools. Is there, do you think, is there something about your job that kind of, I don't know what your day looks like? Are you in contact with a lot of people normally in a normal time? Yeah. I love my job. I love my job and the. The only big stressor with my job is the, it's sort of the volume of, of work. Sure, sure. So, yeah, I'm in contact with a bunch of people and love my customers. And the what happens is there's a little bit of, chronic stress, you know, like a, a 14 hour day is not necessarily. A normal work day. the average, from the Bureau of labor statistics, the average American works about 1,830 something hours a year. That that factor is out to be just under 40 hours a week. That's not including entrepreneurs like yourself who work way more. I know. so 1,830. About 1,830 hours a year. So far this year I've worked about 2200 and it's September. So it's a lot of work and what that means. Yeah. you know, it's tough to stop working a body in motion, body in motion stays in motion. So the, you know, if, You know, a guy like me who isn't necessarily coaching soccer on the weekends or playing soccer, or, you know, like got to have something, whether it be coaching soccer, playing basketball, going to yoga, you know, any of that type of stuff. you know, that. The chronic stress is sort of the major issue and breaking the hold of that. Somehow you would call it, you know, if you were a social worker, you would call it. So MADEC, you need something so mad. Yeah. And it doesn't have to be, you know, You don't have to be doing shaking and tremoring release. You can just play soccer. Like you can just do that thing. Yeah. Or maybe it is tremor and release, you know? But yeah. So that's the issue with my job is more like the chronic nature of it. Yeah. I'm I'm listening. Are you listening or not really listening, but listening to the body keeps the score and I've read it. But I just need that reminder of the somatic experiences. Just letting that kind of work through me. I was gonna, I was gonna ask you a question and it totally flew out of my head. it sounds like, would you say that it was like an addiction to the stress. Oh, absolutely. Yeah, but it's, you know, in our culture, that's also partly life. So if nobody delivered anything, then we would have no delivery people. Right. So we've got a bunch of delivery guys out there and a bunch of firefighters and doctors work a million hours and. You know, being mildly addicted to our stress chemicals is actually the dissociative behavior that is getting shit done. So, you know, if I'm going in for surgery, I don't want the doc who is not confident who is. Mildly depressed or hypo vagal. I want Mister, I want the stud I want the badass, you know, a woman who was just like, yeah, let me just stitch this guy up. He's going to be great. You know what I want? I want somebody who's really good. And part of that is. Gulping down stress. Yeah, it's true. I don't know. And sometimes I, I wonder if it's also a male female thing. Like I think men are much more able to compartmentalize a little bit more. but to that, like to the doctor point or anything medical, just thinking about how we work. Do you have, empathetic tendencies where you pick up other people's stuff? Is this a thing for you at all? Or is this I'm just curious, like talking to people, do you want to, do you have to stop yourself from. Letting it all. I know you tagged me in a post yesterday. Oh yeah. Yeah. I'm a HC Daws. The man, I just want to, post of his, he's a clinical social worker that on Instagram, I recommend people follow him. Yeah. I think I encountered him through his, he has these great posts about writing permission, slips to yourself. Yeah. And yeah, I really liked that concept. And, yeah, I, I do believe I have, that empathic nature. I think, you know, one of my goals in life at some point in some decade, Maybe in retirement from parceling, is to be a social worker. So I think I, I have that and I think a lot of therapists and social workers become therapists and social workers just because they're just so empathic, you know? But your, your strong point is also a weak point if you can't channel it, you know? Yeah. and. So, yeah, I do think I have that. I think that, for me, I began to understand it as a boundary issue. Like, you know, I can't solve somebody's pain. I can really just sort of be alongside of them, that type of deal. And, if, if we're people that have never known good boundaries than being empathic, It's painful. Yeah. What are some practical ways that you, maintain your boundaries? I take a breath. Okay. Yeah. Yeah. It's, it's legitimately the quickest way to access your vagal nerve. Cause when your diaphragm moves, it's going to give you a little electrical jolt into your. Dorsal vagal nerve. And that's going to ground you a little bit. So, you know, just take a breath and all of a sudden I'm a little bit more embodied and not lost in this person's pain or story. Yeah. And I can just sort of be myself. So it sounds a little cliche, but like, you know, I, I take a breath. No, that's good because if you're actually doing it and it actually works, it's extremely practical and healthy and it is so basic. We have the breath with us all the time. We can access it at any moment. It's so simple. Simple, not easy. Oh yeah. Simple. Not easy yet. Yeah. I think as we both know and. There's no shame. I think in reminding ourselves of that, that, yeah, it's that simple and we need to do it. And I think you just reminded me, like maybe like five minutes ago on this podcast, like yeah. I'll take a breath when I needed a big breath. Yes, it's true. It's so easy to get in. I was in, I had an experience in the last couple of weeks where. I, I didn't, I just kinda like, I was all of a sudden in defense mode and that hasn't happened to me in a while, a long while. And th and then the mental games we go through, right. Like, Oh man, I didn't, I wasn't my best self in that moment. but I mean, it happens. Yeah. And letting it, letting that go, like, yeah, like it happens and that's why. It's simple, not easy. If it were easy, everybody would be these great empathy, empathic, good boundaries, tight. You know, I think I get the most reaction from you when I'm talking about boundaries on Instagram. Just what I've noticed. Yeah. I love your boundaries. Love that. Love the boundaries. Well, it's a it's I think I know a lot of yoga people and have done a lot of yoga and that's people go to yoga communities and they're very healing. And then, Oh really any communal thing, let's say you go to a concert, say you go to a techno concert, you know, and you know, boundaries dissolve. You feel like you're one with the crowd. and then to. Actually reel it back in and to also be an individual, Paul, is sort of a nice feeling. And it's a feeling that we can have only if we have a really strong sense of self, like a healthy ego, you know? So yeah. Boundaries are good. Boundaries are not something that, or good boundaries are not something that. Came natural to me, or I grew up with necessarily just, so it's that as well as like a skill that I'm continuing to try to learn. Hmm, yes. Yeah. It's it is our boundaries kind of get a little, a lot blurred through life. you just mentioned the ego and I've been thinking on this a little bit and Meg Yates mentioned it. I don't know. When did I talk to her? In the last week or week and a half or so. and I've been thinking a lot about the ego. Like, I'm curious, what you, what am I trying to say? It's this idea of, I follow Cy Wakeman. I don't know if you've read any of her stuff or listened to her stuff. no, I haven't. She wrote the book, no ego. And it's a lot it's about, you know, kind of laying your ego aside, especially in work environments. Cause she's. Issues in HR has been an HR for a long time. but this idea of like needing to have an ego to even set it aside, in what ways do we get enough ego to even lay aside? Do you think, does that make sense? It makes total sense. I think it's a question. A lot of folks don't even have to ask if you have been nurtured as a child, if we have been nurtured as children, We've got an ego. Yes. It's developmental. And you can see it in, in any animal. Like if you've the socialization of puppies, you know, there's like a critical like window of puppy socialization when they're, you know, like what 12 weeks, you know? So with humans it's a little bit longer and you know, I'm not the guy. To go to for this, but it's a lot of attachment theory and stuff like that. So let's say we don't get that as a real young youngster, hypothetically, then all of a sudden it's like an ongoing process to develop it and you could even make an analogy to. You know the body, like, let's say you want to be an arm wrestler and you've never done a bicep curl. Yeah. Like Holy smokes. You're going to have to start doing bicep curls. You're going to have to start doing wrist strengthening. Yeah. Otherwise you're going to go into that first tournament and it's just going to be, you know, you could get injured. So building up an ego is a. Like really important. And I think when you see this is like Romeo and Juliet stuff, you see people, you see adolescents getting to that first relationship and it's just a complete car wreck because their ego is still growing or they have ego issues from, you know, being youngsters. And it's just like, Oh my gosh, it's just high school in a nutshell. Right. So, and none of that stuff is our fault. If you're, if you're a kid and you have an ego that wasn't like nurtured. Yeah. So then it just becomes a path of, in my experience and in my words, I guess it would be a path of finding what you're really like. No Aristotle said, all things tend toward the good, so tending toward the good is going toward what you like. And people don't necessarily have an idea of what's good for them. And that means I'm going to have to do some ego work. Yeah. Yeah. Sometimes I wonder if people consider the ego to be. I think some people do like if you, Oh, that guy has got an ego on him, you know, it's considered a bad thing. I'm just, I guess I think I'm thinking about this a lot lately. Cause I was raised that way, you know, ego. Isn't a really a good thing. Oh yeah. Yeah. And I don't, I think some people are possibly looking at it in that way. You know, to set your ego aside. Well, I'm wondering if they're seeing the reactionary part of people and thinking that's their ego. Yeah. I think that in terms of discipline, I mean, I'm not a parent, but in terms of parenting discipline or group discipline, that's the lowest hanging fruit. If you're terrible at discipline, then you just pick out. People's reactionary traits and harp on them. That's just terrible leadership, terrible parenting, actually building somebody up, actually taking what they like and noticing, Oh, this, you know, I got this kid and I took him to the rock climbing gym and he doesn't really like rock climbing, but at the pool he went nuts. He loves the water. Like just all of a sudden, instead of saying, Oh, you hate rock climbing. Why don't you just nurture the swimming, you know, like actually moving people and supporting their interests is. Such a great way to value their ego. And I think, you know, when you see somebody doing something that they enjoy, their personality comes out, it's, it's a beautiful thing. It really, it really, really is. I'm so interesting when you said something about nurturing that in people. what they love. it just reminded me when I was growing up. Like, my mom was very big on taking away the things that we loved when she wasn't happy with us, you know, it wasn't even that I know, but that's how it is. Right. I know. I'm sorry that happened like flock, right? Yeah, because it works. You know? yeah. Yeah, but I'm just thinking about a lot of that lately. I'm wondering, and I overthink I'm I shouldn't say over, I think a lot. but that idea I have I've, I've wrestled with it because I, I don't know if my mother is a narcissist. She has every sign and trait of being a malignant narcissist. But I wonder, I guess I, sometimes I think about the trauma that she went through and all of that. And, and if, if, if she was building a personality and if that was ego, like I just wonder about these kinds of things. So I like that we kind of went down that trail a little. Yeah. Well, I will say that, you know, building an ego at the expense of other people is the wrong way to build an ego. Yeah. Yeah. And I think, yeah, I mean, he go is very protective, but you don't almost like, it's almost like getting in a bar fight. Like you don't have to get in a bar fight. You can just leave the bar. Like you don't have to build an ego. By putting other people down, you can just do things that you enjoy more. Yeah. Yeah. A sense of powerlessness that creates this over arching control need for control maybe. Yeah. I feel, that's why I love this idea of re personalizing ourselves, you know, like, because. That's a great way to build an ego by taking yourself, making yourself more of you. You don't have to like, take your kid and put them down and you know, yeah. Yes, you don't. And so many of us don't know that and it's so I wish everyone could know that. I wish I knew that I wish everyone could just know that it would. I think the world would be such a. Better place. Yeah. Well, I've experienced you as very, kind and generous online and, so I've experienced otherwise from you. So I just want to say that. Oh, well, thank you. That's very sweet. yeah, I mean, we get, we pick up fleas and stuff too from our, our, our past, and we have habits that we formed to survive and, that stuff comes out when it's. You know, when you hit real life and, especially in relationships. Yup. Yeah. That's the big relationships is just, it's such a big boundary mass, right. It really, really is. How have you. I don't. And you can tell me, I mean, you have good boundaries. How have you practiced this in your personal relationships, whether it's romantic friendship, are there ways that you have discovered you struggled in these areas and ways that you have, picked up good habits? yeah, probably the best relationship habit I've picked up. I mean, I survived my thirties online dating somehow. I dunno how, but probably the best relationship habit I picked up, was, if, if something. Is upsetting me. Or if, if I'm just in a mood where it's going to affect my partner, I gotta just own it and be like, you know, if it's like minor, then I really don't need to bother them with it. You know? Like they, they got there, they're doing their own thing. I can just sort of manage it on my own. But if I'm, if I know, Hey, No, let's say, you know, let's say I haven't eaten in 12 hours. I'm like, Hey, I'm going to be pretty pissy here just saying I haven't eaten. So it's not you. So I just sort of own my emotions, you know? And that, that has gotten me, that has attracted better partners. huh. You know, but yeah, it's just such a struggle bus. I can relate to the hangry thing. It's common for me to say, Hey, I'm dropping like a rock, just so you know. Yeah. Right. And that's just an excuse for bad behavior. Yes. Behavior that isn't helpful to the relationship. I tend to just get really quiet and like no energy. but yeah. Being aware of those things, is there something wrong? Oh, I just need to eat. Yeah. But I struggled with that when someone's quiet, I think something's wrong. Exactly. And that's why owning an emotion verbally is, is so nice. Especially if in a relationship, you, maybe somebody doesn't know you too well, or maybe. And even if somebody knows you really well, like those basic human things of thank you. You're welcome. You're important to me, just, you know, simple, not easy. Just the basics of human interaction. Yeah. That's very, it comes back to being very present and aware of what's going on with you. Yeah. Yeah. So that, that, that is probably what's helped me more over the years is communicating more. And when I've had ad partners or been dating people who don't like that, then it just doesn't last. Yeah. They're like good luck to them. They're going to find somebody somehow they're gonna hit the lottery and find somebody who also doesn't communicate good luck. Cause it's like rolling dice every day, you know? Yeah, so true. Yes. we make better choices when we create better habits. nicely said. it's just been such a pleasure meeting you and, getting to know you this way a little bit. is there anything, is there anything you would like to impart to the people who will be listening to this? it doesn't have to be big and you know, it's, I think one of the things I can offer is the fact that I. I've been trained as a yoga teacher and through justice resource Institute, like, the trauma sensitive model and probably the best advice I could give to people who might be listening to a love me lab podcast is if you can create a safe container for yourself on the regular, whatever that looks like, then. You know, that is such a great touch point to come home to when we're feeling more stressed. So if you can get to yoga, get to church, get to meditation session, get to soccer, whatever that thing is, where you're like, yeah, you really feel alive. If, if we can like create that home base of a safe container, then that's such a positive thing because that's available to us in the future. When. Our stress hardiness is tested. So whatever that is for you, I want to give you permission to do it. Mm. I love that. So good. Ryan fits Patrick. I just want to say it's Williams fits everything since he works. Hey guy works. Thanks for being on my podcast. You're welcome. I'm stoked. You have a podcast. Me too. I think. Yeah. It's important. It's important to have these conversations and you're having them. Yes. Thank you so much. I hope you have an awesome rest of your week and camping and all that fun stuff and enjoy your vacation. Yes. Yeah. Soak it in. Thanks a lot, Ryan. You got it. I will be seeing you around the ground. A sewer on the gram are, so what's up for us today. I got one more interview. I'm terrible. I'm a terrible host, but, but I'm really good host too. you're the best and then I'm going to Trevor city this weekend. What's that? You're from Boston. You don't even know it's a Michigan thing. Yeah. It's a Michigan things like three hours North, so yeah. Yeah. It's cute. Little city up there, town city. I don't know. Amazing. All right. Good luck with it. All. Good luck with it all. Yeah, I'm happy to be part of this. This is your day today. You're welcome. Have a good one. Bye bye.