Love Me Lab
Episode 009: Love Yourself in the New Year with Meg Yates
Interfaith minister/musician/fine artist Meg Yates sits down with me to talk about life, love, healing, the pandemic, becoming and so much more for the final episode of 2020!
Buy music and art and membership perks from Meg at megyates.com or follow her on Instagram for inspiration @inner_life_creations
To support the show: Subscribe, rate, review, share!
Join Buy Me a Coffee Membership for a coffee a month to support the show with your dollars.
I'm honored to have you here. - Tabitha
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Interfaith minister/musician/fine artist Meg Yates sits down with me to talk about life, love, healing, the pandemic, becoming and so much more for the final episode of 2020!
Buy music and art and membership perks from Meg at megyates.com or follow her on Instagram for inspiration @inner_life_creations
To support the show: Subscribe, rate, review, share!
Join Buy Me a Coffee Membership for a coffee a month to support the show with your dollars.
I'm honored to have you here. - Tabitha
Start for FREE
Disclaimer: This post contains affiliate links. If you make a purchase, I may receive a commission at no extra cost to you.
I missed it. You,
Meg:we are recording.
Tabitha:Terry's birthday has come and gone.
Meg:My son is coming on.
Tabitha:I'm now 40.
Meg:You made it.
Tabitha:I made it.
Meg:You made it.
Tabitha:I made
Meg:it. Here you are. You're beautiful. I think
Tabitha:you are. We both have our up dues
Meg:today. Yeah. The bigger the hair, the closer to God hair.
Tabitha:Yeah. I mean, something like
Meg:that. It looks
Tabitha:good. Hi, I've missed you.
Meg:Likewise.. Tabitha: We talked a little body for the holidays
Tabitha:kind of thing, or just coming home to yourself, whatever it is that kind of a theme. I don't know if you've been thinking on that at all,
Meg:but you're always kind of thinking about that.
Tabitha:Yeah, it's kind of your thing. That's kind of your life really
Meg:a little
Tabitha:bit. My thing, so I'm just curious. I want to just kind of hear from you. I know you've got stuff on your heart. You always have stuff on your heart and mind that's beneficial for many other people. So. Oh tab.
Meg:Thank you. And we're appreciating this prompt of coming home. I feel like, I feel like homecoming actually has been a way that I would name a lot of what is coming up for me in this year. And. There's so many reflections. I don't think we'll be able to touch them all in, in our conversation. But one pathway of coming home is building home with my partner, Charlie and building relationship and family. And I say building as in like not falling into and coming home, I feel like requires the present. Present walking in, into and with and beside I don't feel, I feel like you just can't, we probably don't just fall into home. Another iteration of coming home this year is the, is the continuation of my daily painting practice. And I feel like. There's so much about practice that is in highlight for me this year. Because I've begun sharing more about that with, with folks in community. And so I've had to acknowledge myself and I've had to acknowledge the body of work that I've done in a way that I think I was being a little bit passive about before, like, Interestingly, I was like acting in that direction, but I wasn't acknowledging, and I feel like that itself acknowledgement really is, is a really important piece that has evolved for me through daily practice. And yeah. And then this other piece that was just sort of named But I feel like has a bunch of like sub categories within it, of about coming home to myself as recognizing where I have been projecting certain image, which I, I couldn't even identify until this year because there were places in which I just had my head down and I was just doing what I had to do. And. There were many layers of that, like doing what I had to do and I work doing what I had to do in my first marriage. Yeah, there was a lot and doing what I had to do in terms of like unwinding trauma and like noticing where all of that lived in me. So. Pervasive. And some of those ways that it was pervasive are really subtle. Like they weren't, they weren't so obvious to me until this year where I've had the privilege of actually receiving the forced March into self-reflection on pause through this pandemic, like I've worked a lot, a lot, like I'm working many hour weeks, but I'm also working from home, which means I'm not. Driving. And I'm not setting up pillows and turning on tea, water, and sweating, and like preparing to interact with people in person, which as an introvert is like taxing too. I love it. And it's taxing to me. And, and I didn't know that until I started working in this way, of which case, like working on zoom is taxing, but like different than being in person. Yeah, all the time doing really intimate work. So those are like some major, like places that I'm aware of of coming home, like family and art practice. And and what I would maybe say as dissolving my shell, like. The projection that I had that I had been living within for a long time is so close to me. It's so almost exactly me, but it's like buffered from my, from allowing my responses to be as they are in a moment and not actually inviting intimacy. I wasn't, it's amazing to reflect. Back on my life before this last year and last couple of years, really, but really the last couple of years, cause even in my, my friendships have become more intimate and more like intimately honest, like emotionally honest. And yeah, I just had like this. I just had this shell around me for a long time. So I feel like coming home part of it is like not just being in cause I'm good at being in love, being in it's actually like coming out and inviting participation inviting intimacy, inviting relationship in so many ways. Hmm, including some of the things we just touched on that you were naming about within your relationship. Like, Oh, here's this thing this has now gone well before, when I
Tabitha:hear
Meg:it is will you be with me in it? Oh, you will. Okay. Yeah. Okay. You sure? Okay. And then, yeah. But not only doing that in my most intimate relationships, but actually in my business, like allowing my business to be a reflection of my inner life. And more people are coming to me because of that. Like, I feel like I used to like project and reflect, like I used to like project where I had worked my shit out. I didn't so much over project. Like I wasn't, like I have all my shit together. It was like, I have this shit together and I just didn't talk about the other shit. And then when I got divorced and had a year of epileptic seizures, I was like, Oh no, this is like, undeniable. I can't remain in this chasm anymore. Like we're going to have to reconcile and yeah, through doing, through doing that and. Inviting people into where like I'm in practice and process actually has really deepened my relationship with everyone, including people in my practice. I feel like we're actually peers. Like I've always idealized to being peers, but I feel like I'm actually peers with people in my practice and we're like doing work together and it's really. Fucking awesome. It's what I've always, it's what I've actually always wanted. I feel like I'm receiving what I've always wanted, which lately often on I've had this like, Oh shit, when's the shoe gonna drop because I have what I want a little bit. There's a little bit of that, but
Tabitha:Oh, well, yeah, I get that on so many levels.
Meg:Yes,
Tabitha:stuff's going right. Or okay.
Meg:Or, okay.
Tabitha:When does it all come crashing down or something? That's good. That's amazing. I have, I guess I've been thinking along similar terms lately. We, we have you and I use such things, different language. I feel like
Meg:rad,
Tabitha:but it's also the same.
Meg:Yeah. I've often found that to have a say. I feel like, and actually I feel like that's really important and lovely for people to like, Share their own to share their share in her life language, but then also actually recognize I've often recognized that we're running parallel, but we're just, we're naming it slightly differently, which is helpful. I think that that diversity is really essential. Yeah,
Tabitha:you're just much better at expressing yourself. So I'll just say that I,
Meg:I disagree. I feel like you were wonderful at expressing herself and I gleaned things every time you were willing to take that risk.
Tabitha:Thank you., but I think because I'm always so blah open,
Meg:like here's what I was dealing with
Tabitha:yesterday. Like this morning I woke up feeling like this. I'm always so like right in the in process. And I always feel like everybody else. Has a much better handle on their lives and their healing process than I do, because it's like, but there's both right. There's I'm in it. I'm doing this. And I'm sharing because I think other people might be, and we can come alongside each other.
Meg:Yes.
Tabitha:I don't know if that's kind of what you're getting at as far as being a little more open, but. It's more, it's less of a, like coming from above and like coming alongside.
Meg:Yes. Yeah. Yeah. And it's true. The above for me. Part of my shell was like, I've always been able to see like the bigger arcs and how they're they're running. Yeah. And I'm like, okay, we're in this one. Okay. And like navigating my now. But the thing that you're naming is something that I'm But I've always felt, but I just haven't shared it by now. Like, Oh, the story of now and how that's relating to this big arc is this, like for instance, this week included multiple opportunities to navigate holding my own within vulnerable moments, in which like something really challenging was happening. Like I had a few different. Opportunities that actually were required of me very different kinds of responses. And it was amazing to see that myself like to see what I've been working on in a long arc reflected in such an immediate sort of emotionally alive container of time. Like this month has had a few things, but this last like nine days has really had a lot ranging from like, A friend sharing with me that I really hurt their feelings. And the way that that rolled out was curious for me. But I like stayed present to it and was able to apologize for the thing I did, but also like held my own around
Tabitha:where
Meg:I had need and, and where my humanity was without being overly defensive. I'm not saying I wasn't at all defensive, but like I felt like I was able to Process my own activation without like throwing it back at them. And usually I wouldn't really throw it back at them. I would just eat it. So I'm really glad I didn't just eat it. So for me, like interacting with it and even being a little defensive was weirdly progress. Cause I wasn't just like absorbing somebody else's thing and then, and then basically avoiding them or cutting them off. I was like, yeah. Okay. That's yours personally, but like where, where am I? What's my responsibility here. And then another opportunity arose in which I had hired somebody for something and then I didn't hear from them for 10 days and I decided not to hire them for that thing. Yeah. They wrote me this like response and I was like, That's fine. And I didn't respond to that one. And I was like, it's, it's appropriate for me in this case to not respond like. Yeah. And so I feel like it's taken a while to not just have like a blanket response based on whatever, like whatever the world is recommending or trauma or whatever, and this actually having resources to show up and respond to differently to different circumstances. Which I feel like in some cases, some people like clean those skills when they were like teenagers, but it didn't really have that opportunity, so,
Tabitha:Oh man. I hear you on all,
Meg:all those accounts,
Tabitha:like it's, it's just.
Meg:That's
Tabitha:really interesting in being able to see all the nuances in an exchange like that, like friends, hurt feelings or whatever, and being able to see what is being projected onto you, what you are responsible for, and then not letting it crush you
Meg:crush you. And actually even meeting my friend in their pain and I feel in right relationship navigated, like there's a little bit of a press in, and I'm sure I pressed in a little bit, but like, I feel like we actually, like, for the most part, what's the heart of the matter here. Like how can I meet the heart of the matter of what's being brought to me? Even though I, yeah, even though the conditions weren't totally ideal, like I was, I was just saying, hi, and I received an unexpected response. Like, I didn't know that it was going to be a processing response. And so I was like, Oh, this is the conversation we're suddenly having. Okay. But it was interesting. I was like, okay, like, Still, how do I manage my own energy and self-soothe, and also like, meet the need right now, which might require me to make some concessions around not being thoroughly met in this moment by this person. Yeah. Because that's not, what's required. What's required as to like, Acknowledge or this person is in pain and like take responsibility for what's mine to take responsibility for anyway. Right. Nitty gritty, getting down to the mechanics and details of like,
Tabitha:it's a big deal though, because I think there's a huge culture around toxicity right now. Right. If I'm sensing that when people just don't like something or the way something's going. It's all of a sudden toxic and you know, a lot of it, a lot of the time, it is just the dynamic that's toxic. And do we automatically say someone is toxic
Meg:or a situation is toxic because it's
Tabitha:not easy or
Meg:yeah. The needs aren't matching up at the same time. Like. Yeah, it's curious. I mean, the point in which this person asked, asked for something of me at the end of last year, what happened is I had said, I'd get back to her. And I never got back to her. And that was, I understand why that was painful for her. She, she had asked only a small handful of people to have her help. And I was one of those people and I totally dropped the ball on it and had forgotten about it because I was in my own shit. So like, I have understanding and compassion for myself of being in my own shit. And I also have understanding compassion that that was hurtful to her. Like totally get it. It's almost like an example of these dynamics. I don't, and I'm not meaning to talk about particular things for such a long time, but I just feel like these are, these are the mechanics of actually being here, like. How do we honor ourselves and get along with each other? And like, we're not all going to have the same needs at the same time and still can we, can we bridge those gaps and find intimacy and connection and in right relationship? And what does that actually friggin look like, which we don't always have resources for that in a given moment?
Tabitha:No, I think we're also concerned with not being in the wrong that it's really not about right or wrong. Yeah,
Meg:it's
Tabitha:a lot of it is about
Meg:the stories we tell in our heads, the story that the other person is
Tabitha:telling in their head, the stuff that's being projected on us, the stuff we're projecting onto the situation.
Meg:This is, I feel like this is a nice touchstone for coming home because I feel like. So much of that. And this year, particularly I've made more of a practice of being like, what am I actually able to show up for? Not just do, what am I able to do? It feels like a question in which I could totally forsake myself. What am I actually truly available for? How, what can I actually show up for? And am I willing to communicate about that? And if I'm not. Why like then what, and, and are, are these therefore relationships that I can maintain? And in some cases, even if I totally adore somebody, no, because they're their needs. I, I'm not able to be a friend for their needs in the way that they need. And it's not about shutting it off. It's just about not overextending because I actually really more and more understand myself and I understand my energy reserve and what, what I'm actually able to give and what I'm not actually able to give. And I feel like I have overextended myself for so long. Oh my God. My ex-husband used to bring that to me. He would just be like, say no. And I'm like, Whoa. Yeah, like saying no was just, it felt evil to me, it felt vile to me that I would not be able to offer somebody what they were requesting of me. And now I'm like, no, if not this something else, like if I can free up the space and say no, then that person's going to be able to actually go where they can be mad. And it's not about denying future requests or intimacy, but like totally. From a place of self-awareness and standing within myself being like here's, what's real. Here's what's actually possible.
Tabitha:Yeah.
Meg:Yeah. Are you finding more of that opportunity to like, say the thing? Not just to like know the thing or practice the thing and not just know the thing.
Tabitha:It's a lot easier with people that are in the, like, You know, the third concentric, you know?
Meg:Yeah. Harder
Tabitha:with people that are friends. And also that's the thing I think. And I think I'm back to the toxicity thing because it's like, I think we automatically right now in this time that we're in, we go to. Is this a toxic situation? Do I need to just cut this off? And it's really about see that toxic person walk the other way?
Meg:Oh, the time talk
Tabitha:that's going around.
Meg:I feel like we're all, we're all toxic sometimes.
Tabitha:Yeah. That's the thing. And it's, it really is just about what we have the bandwidth for and what is serving us the best in the moment. And also like how we're going to be able to serve
Meg:best. So, and moment by moment, but also like we're talking about in arcs, like yeah. What I noticed about what I noticed. It took me a long time to notice the toxicity in my marriage. It was probably mutual. It's not like I'm completely, I like, I'm very, I was very much there holding my ex-husband at arms length, which I've had time to like really process and maintain. And am I responsible for his actions? No. But Yeah. Like we were maintaining a dynamic over time that we were not, we were not able to really mutually meet or, or serve each other
Tabitha:same
Meg:and there wasn't really a total willing, right. And there wasn't a total willingness to like pivot towards intimacy. And I think that's the piece that is curious. And so like with this friend this week, I think I asked you a question and I'm taking it over humble apologies. But with this friend of the speaker, what was sweet is that like. We went through a few movements of conversation. And then we found that we pivoted towards each other. And I was like, yeah, it's not like conflict means that there's problem. In fact, like conflict can bring more intimacy, but, but both people have to choose and turn and pivot towards that in a way that is like truly mutual. Within a rate, I would say within a ratio of mutuality within a ratio of, of it being true, because it's not like it's not like it was, I feel completely processed about any of the things we've talked about so far. Or whatever. It's not like, but by majority I'm like, Oh, returning towards that. And it's not a bypass turn. It's not like, not like we're just going to ignore this problem and never engage on it again or whatever. It's like, acknowledging it and being like, I'm willing to pivot towards this relationship with this, knowing that we need to be sensitive to these kinds of things. Okay. Like now I know better how to take care of you. And I definitely know better how to take care of me within this, within the context of this, through through boundaries and through naming the thing.
Tabitha:Yeah. That's so good. What you were saying about the turning to one another is a big thing and that's, I think the inability to do that is at times what makes a dynamic toxic. Yeah, same. I mean, there isn't any marriage where both people aren't contributing to
Meg:whatever's happening in that relationship.
Tabitha:Obviously you both show up or not, or
Meg:you're both there though,
Tabitha:and whatever's happening is a product of the day. Two dynamics together or the dynamic between the two of you. Some of it's reactive abuse of time. Some of it's also just really unhealed stuff and you don't have any idea how to like, create a boundary and just say, Nope, this is my standard. This is what I want.
Meg:Yep.
Tabitha:This is what needs to happen. If it's not, Oh, well, like did the ability to hold things really loosely and also like care enough to say this is who I am and where I stand. And I didn't know enough about myself when I got married.
Meg:Yeah. I was going to say that to you. Yeah. I couldn't, I couldn't even see the things really feel like a couple of years before we separated. I feel like I like. Really suddenly must be able to see. And then I was like, Oh, now I can't unsee. And now I'm awake. And, and giving it time to see what would happen to what would unfold, but then also not betraying myself, not staying within a context, particularly near at the very end where. I'm not betraying myself by staying in a context that was going to actually whittle away my soul. Like we're in, I was like actually going to disappear because I was valuing my needs and I wasn't actually valuing totally or able to meet my ex-husband's needs and, and including like the pace in which I was hungry and willing to go. He was, he was in his own pace and It's not like pacing in and of itself was the problem. It's like all of the rollout of other unconscious behaviors that contributed, compounded that. Like, we don't have to be in the same place as our partners either. Like. I think Charlie and I are aware, like, I don't know. It's been a beautiful, interesting year because I'm like in my business and he's like recalibrating and it's amazing to be like really together and not necessarily in the same.
Tabitha:It's like flipped for me and my boyfriend. I'm recalibrating. He's like, yeah, it's interesting.
Meg:Yeah,
Tabitha:but it's good. I think of both people like you guys are in a really healthy relationship
Meg:and that probably
Tabitha:works on some level for each of you and your many
Meg:levels, three calibrating too. And I think would go with the rising up in some other ways. And so it's not exclusively this or that. It's like this and that. And I feel like that's where the that's where there's sort of threading between it's. Yeah, yeah.
Tabitha:Yeah, I love that. I always totally relate. And the stuff you say resonates with me so much.
Meg:Likewise.
Tabitha:Thanks. I still think it's the human experience,
Meg:right? Thanks without deflecting. Yes, it is.
Tabitha:It is. It is. And me coming from a place of what, the stuff I talk about, like I went no contact with my family because there's like this and this and this. I have always kind of looked at it like. They needed to do that too. That was my family's choice. Also. It wasn't working for them
Meg:either. Right.
Tabitha:You know, they couldn't have someone going, this is my life. We don't want anyone to know that. Like
Meg:that's okay. Right. In
Tabitha:a way. Yeah.
Meg:I heard, I know it. I think about that with my mom too. My mom. I talk with my mom probably three or four times a year.
Tabitha:Yeah.
Meg:And it's getting better because I think she's just too tired. And
Tabitha:if
Meg:I'm being honest, like I definitely maintain. Our relationship. Like I, I reached out, I call, I write letters. They definitely think about me and I know that they love me, actually, my mom and her partner. And they haven't had a lot of like help or opportunity or circumstance that's encouraged. Further development. And so sometimes they rely back on their like stressors, but I'm not a kid. And so it's not, it's not like, and I'm not living with them. And so it's not impacting me in the same way it used to, but not anymore in the same way. But this last year, my mom said something like, I'm not really your mom. And I don't know that she was totally conscious of what she was saying.
Tabitha:And
Meg:I was, and I'm like, you're right. You're not really my mom, you're my mama. You gave birth to me. We have maintained a relationship to the best of our ability which is not what I would consider a relationship to be honest, like, but we have remained in contact, but I wouldn't say we're in relationship. Like. But hers saying that I feel like is touching on what you're naming, which just like the way that I am in this world is not what she needs. Like I'm incredibly, like, here's the thing, my mom's all like. My that's not how that was. This is how that was. And I'm like, Ooh, no. See, I was there like you, weren't the only one who was there. That's narcissism. I was also there and my experience was this and yeah, like she doesn't need
Tabitha:that.
Meg:He doesn't want that. That is not actually anything except for triggering to her.
Tabitha:So it doesn't work for her.
Meg:It doesn't actually work for her. I don't
Tabitha:actually
Meg:work for her. I'm beginning to not really take that very personally anymore. I'm like cool, because there are people in my life that are more of my mom and I totally work for them and they totally work for me. And that mom need is met. And of course there's pain that my birth mom is not. Able to be in relationship with me for some particular reasons. But there were aspects of it that kind of worked for me. Like I've been reflecting in the last decade or so about how I'm built and how actually the amount of independence that I had as a kid, even though it created some deficiencies in me, my ex husband, he works to make shift. And so he wasn't home all the time. And so it's been really interesting to notice like, Oh, I, I have been keeping almost everybody at arms length and I'm not anymore. And that's what this is like. But like there were things that worked for me or that I made work for me. I'm not sure which happened first. Yeah, it's curious because it's, I'm like grateful. I came from who I came from and yet, like none of those relationships were good. It's just an odd thing to feel.
Tabitha:It is. It is. I feel that so much. When I first started writing about my family, that was the way that I came at. It was like I had these experiences growing up. Therefore it made me. Adept at this, this, this, and this in
Meg:life. Right.
Tabitha:And I almost was the taking it. Like I wanted to be grateful for it. That was the thing that kind of blew my mind when my family was like, you shouldn't be writing about this anymore. I was like, but I, well, I'm just talking about what I've learned through life and like, why I'm am the way that I am. And to them, it was just horrifying having
Meg:real stories out
Tabitha:there, but I'm like, but I'm just, I'm actually appreciating, like
Meg:this is oddly over or except it's also a calling out.
Tabitha:So
Meg:it's why I haven't really written about my, I haven't really written about my life. And I have not talked about my life a lot in the past. I think when we did our first round of this, I was like, Ooh, vulnerability hangover. Like I have like hinted at like, Oh, it was intense. But in terms of like details I've been hyper private about it, about what happened, but Yeah. It's beginning to change for me. I'm like, actually I feel like these things need to be named speaking of which I really have to pee.
Tabitha:Oh yeah.
Meg:I'll be right back.
Tabitha:I may do it as well
Meg:yay.
Tabitha:We did it.
Meg:Well, we paid, we paid and it was good.
Tabitha:Yeah. Yeah. Even those things, like, I'm just getting better at saying I have to pee
Meg:me to
Tabitha:an interrupting. Something like
Meg:you
Tabitha:have to take care of ourselves.
Meg:I feel like the world is beginning to like, well, I feel like we've always wanted to. And so I feel like because a few of us are beginning to take risks with these kinds of communication. It's just more accessible to everybody. To be like, I'm a person and I have needs and I'm going to meet those needs. And they're really simple for you to help me meet those needs. And I will help you meet those needs too. But I just feel like that's part of the shell dissolving for me in the last couple of years. Like I had a seizure in front of some of my students while I was teaching. And fortunately it wasn't a grandma, but like, it was still like terrifying and weird. Like I lost function in my left side and it was like, and now I'm not going to teach. And part of me was feeling guilty like, Oh, these students, they came to learn this thing and they're paying me and whatever. But actually what I received reflection on was people were really happy to have a way to help me. They was like helpful for them to see my humanity, I think because I've just always just been like, even if I'm tired, if I'm whatever, I'm just like, okay, we're going to do that though.
Tabitha:I'm
Meg:going to give this thing and now I'm like, cool, I'm going to give this thing. I'm going to give you my best. And also like, I'm a person I'm not perfect and I don't have it all together. I don't need you to have it all together. Like I don't need you to not pee or whatever, or eat or whatever, or meet your needs. Like please.
Tabitha:Yeah, definitely
Meg:not just you, but like any, you know, the year.
Tabitha:Yeah. The you have it all
Meg:the, you have it all the, we have it, all
Tabitha:the, we, us,
Meg:the weepy, all of us pay everybody.
Tabitha:This is good stuff. See, you had all that stuff
Meg:sitting in there. Always. I always have this stuff sitting in here. This is all I think about. I
Tabitha:know. Isn't that great.
Meg:I guess. I mean, it's just how it is.
Tabitha:I love that you've
Meg:created this life for yourself. I'm really grateful that it's actually, like, my best is beginning to reflect in my life. I feel like I feel like I was building inside of myself for a really long time, and I'm really delighted to see it reflecting in my outside life. More like. I have the family, like I've actually allowed myself to step into having family, to being in family. And I always wanted, you know, we were talking about kids earlier and I spent, I spent over a decade wanting a baby. Yeah. Hard and losing, losing babies. And It's interesting now because being with Charlie and he has a daughter and children, and it was so clear to me. That that was not, that was not a deal breaker for me. That like, actually for, in my own experience, like wanting the baby was in a lot of ways, wanting family, wanting intimacy, wanting connection, wanting to share what I know and to also like witness the full, the development of somebody. Like I wanted to witness the process of development because I, I was not witnessed. And. I was given two, but I was given two and very harshly. Like people gave me lessons. Like I remember the lessons, my parents taught me and I'm grateful for what they taught me, but I just didn't need how they taught me. And I wanted the opportunity to like witness some of these development and like, I really have looked at why I wanted to have a kid and part of it too, is like, I feel like things are finally getting good and I kind of want to pass that on. And then being with Charlie and building family with him, building, building relationship with him and building relationship with Frita I don't want a baby. I it's interesting that that shifted. I went through grief and I also went through like what white partner named of like, I've decided that it's okay if that doesn't happen. And that was maybe not how he's saying it. Like he's maybe his school or better or whatever, but like, I think he's cool with it. Yeah. I was sort of like, okay, it's okay if this doesn't happen. And then actually like it's settled and I'm like, Oh, what I've always wanted with that by majority, I have like we came into each other's lives right before she started her cycle. And that was a really amazing thing to watch, like the space before the space, during the space. Now, now this like this time after she started her cycle and like the shifts in, into individuation and all of the ways that I get to witness and be there and share, but also receive gifts from her inherent wisdom. And it's what I've always wanted. It's like not how I thought it was going to happen at all, but it is what I've always wanted. Like the, by feeling, it's not, it doesn't look the way that I thought it would look, but by feeling like I have actually what I, what I wanted with that with having a kid.
Tabitha:Yeah. I get that. I get the feeling of wanting to pass that on. And also watching the development that you talked about. I totally get the, the wanting to build a family and also I'm getting more comfortable with the idea of if this doesn't happen, Like, if it's something that can't happen naturally, it's, it's not like I'm going to go to the ends of the earth. But I understand that the feeling of wanting to build a family, like that's totally an, a home like and I think we can have that even just within ourselves, but also that communal family type feeling. And I. You know, I've had stepchildren in my life. I had step-kids in my marriage. I had, you know, basically stepdaughters in my last partnership. And in my marriage it was a decent experience. I think I was going through a lot of growing pains during that time. So it was a little, you know, it felt hairy at times. But in my last relationship, it was a nightmare.
Meg:So that's when I came
Tabitha:in. I feel like you're really fortunate in that way to also have, it
Meg:could have been so many ways, right? Like it's, I'm really grateful that I'm really grateful. I'll just name that. Yeah. Charlie and I are building. Like our gifts and challenges are in compliment with each other. Is it elegant orchestration? Maybe. I just feel like the rollout. Again, it wasn't what I thought it would look like, but it actually needs in this particular person's life in my, in my life, it actually meets the thing that was the underpinning which is not, which is not at all to say that that's, you know, the way that you're underpinning what we met. Like, I feel like, yeah, we don't know what that looks like yet.
Tabitha:I know what it looks like, but I also. You know, it's a, it's a process, you know, you feel the, the baby fever essentially, you know, like rising at times, and then it's like, there's this desperation around
Meg:it. Yep.
Tabitha:And then I have to take a step back and look at that and say, well, what does that like, does that make me a whole person. If I have this, like, does that make me more of a, have more purpose or w like, no, it doesn't, but also like that whole aspect of of saying this is my life, this is what I want. This is what I want to do within partnership, because it takes two people and two people have to be on the same
Meg:page about that. It was
Tabitha:yeah.
Meg:Unexpected things happen.
Tabitha:It's just an interesting thing, you know, like it's an interesting thing to go through. It's definitely a stretching healing process
Meg:and I'm sure.
Tabitha:You've been through all the
Meg:Frieda is not my kid, but she is my kid, but she's not my kid. There's like pieces where I'm like, okay, we're going to, we're going to manage this. And there's some dynamics there that are like, yeah. Charlie. Do you want to talk about it with me? Yeah. Bring
Tabitha:Charlie in. So when you have partners that are working together on it too, you might not always see it exactly the same way, but if they can hold space and I know
Meg:Charlie is a big space holder.
Tabitha:Hey,
Meg:Charles. This is true. We're talking about Tabitha has had some stepchildren experience and I'm now having like a step-mom experience.
Charley:So I'm a dad of a daughter, teenage daughter. Dynamic is important with how it all works now, honestly. Hm, my daughter's pretty intelligent. My daughter's pretty sharp. My daughter's pretty aware of things. So it was really easy for her to recognize the characteristics and in mag, I think that made it really easy for those to, to, to to bond pretty early on and know that there was room room for that to grow to. Or get the real, I get the sense that freedom, really. Yeah, really. He understands that our relationship will change and she's, she's cool about it. She's onboard with that. She actually kind of
Meg:sounds like she looks forward to that
Charley:in a lot of ways it's been a wild ride. So then there's like a I'm I'm, I'm an emotional person and aware of other people's emotions around me too. And that was difficult for me at first, because. How far were we into our relationship before we really had that, that conversation? I remember it was in the apartment
Meg:then not having children. Yeah. Yeah. It was about three or four minutes, probably three or four months
Charley:in where part of me felt bad because the stance that I felt I needed to take with kids and future of it was not gonna allow part of. Meg's dream of lab of life. But then I was offering Meg so much of what she was telling me she wanted out of
Meg:that,
Charley:that it, wasn't very hard for me to stick with what I that was to not have more than one kid. What my mind kept saying is you are offering her a child, a daughter. It just looks a little bit different. And again,
Meg:I still,
Charley:there's still a part of me. That's all, you know, you didn't get, you didn't get that chance to have
Meg:that
Charley:bonding time
Meg:with the child.
Charley:But I realized again, like, Part of our relationship meant honoring ourselves a lot. And so if I was to like cave in, I wouldn't have been honoring the relationship that we were trying to build. That would have been a lot, like the one that I, that I had just left and probably she just left. So again, I just had to be present in. And what I had to offer and stick with, stick with, you know,
Meg:and I wasn't asking, I wasn't asking to have children with you I feel like when we had that conversation, when it was declared, and I think this is the piece that, that ties into some of what we're talking about. Like, I was willing to add. I was willing to like, say something like, do you want to have more children? Which is exactly what I said. It wasn't like. I wanted to have a baby with you. And I don't want to be with you in this. You want to have a baby with me. It was like, do you want to have children? Do you want to have any more children? Which I had, no, I had a feeling, but we hadn't actually explicitly talked about it. And what I needed was for an explicit conversation, your response, which was very strong at first, like, no, I was like, like I had to process that Rose, like, yeah. Okay. I mean, I knew that, but Yeah. Like, I feel like, I feel like saying what saying it and then him having the freedom and room to like, say through in real for him. And then for me to be able to like ask myself, okay, so where does that? Where, where am I now? Where is that now? And I'm like, actually, like, I never wanted to have more than one child. Like, it would be overwhelming to when I, when I like get down to it and like being with you. Is what I want, I want to be with you. And yeah, so that just, it just was very clear to me in that conversation. Like, yeah, I want to be with Charlie and and actually the flutter, the rise and fall, the loss, the grief of having been pregnant and then losing. And then also being in recognition, even though it was like a seedling at that point, but being in recognition of like the deepest desires of what I wanted with that were actually happening and I think we co-parent really well. And I, and the thing that you're naming Tabitha of, like, you didn't have room, I'm so sorry that you had that experience. I feel like. I feel like this kind of relationship of being a step parent actually is really special. It's really special. It's odd, but I'm, I'm used to being in between so much of my experience as a mixed native woman. And like I'm neither big nor small. Like it's like, I've just feel like my entire experiences navigating being in the middle and. And also at the edge, like in the, on the fringe a little bit like inviting people to recognize that the fringe is actually a really beautiful and welcoming place to be. And that it's not, it doesn't have to be scary. Like as a, as an interest spiritual minister, I feel like I'm constantly like ushering a flow between the fringe and the center. And and in this position, I feel like. The things that are in right relationship with my actual self how, like my actual energy level, because even honestly being a mom half-time, I'm like, Wow. Like I love it and I'm tired in ways that I've never been, but I'm also more fulfilled in ways that I've never been. And, and because something in my, my bestie wife is Eilee said is like, She's like, I'm so sorry that you have not had the opportunity of being a mom, but also if you were a mom, you would not be able to be the community mama that you are, you wouldn't be receiving your gifts. And it was hard for me to hear at the time, but I've been sitting with that for a few years and I'm like, actually, I, I have energy for really deeply tending people in my life and in my community. And again, my little introverted hard socially I'm capable of motor mouthing, but like I love being alone in silence. And like, I'm actually able to, this is so millennial for me to say live my best life. I like having by being a blended by being in a blended family. And my experience is actually like, Surprising. It's not. So again, like when I like imagined my life, I did not imagine being a step-mom, but like I'm totally a step-mom and I'm for me, I'm rewriting that because my ex do I want to say it was one more third, one experience will start. Realms will smell great. As far as
Charley:like step-mom scripts go. That's a pretty, pretty good one.
Meg:That's a pretty
Charley:good one to be on.
Tabitha:Yeah. Yeah. It's just interesting to hear you to speak because I mean, in juxtaposition to that, I actually really got along with every step kid in my life. There were four of them. Just us relating to one another, but when it came to the dynamics of whether it was their narcissistic mother or whatever, there was this draw,
Meg:right.
Tabitha:To create confusion and to stir stuff up. And there was this whole it's we talked about the dynamics, like there's that. And then like I saw how the relationship could have been really beautiful and, and really great, and actually suited me quite well, too. And then also the having more children, I really respect. That, because I had a partner who for three years told me that we were going to have kids. And then at the very end,
Meg:after three years, he was like,
Tabitha:yeah, I'm almost 50. Now. I don't want to have any more kids. I need to break up with you. Cause I know that's what you want. It would have been much kinder for him to sit with himself before getting into a relationship with a younger woman who wanted children. That's actually the kind and loving thing to do.
Meg:Agreed. And that's, I knew that about myself. I, it wasn't like, I knew that I needed to have kids. I knew that I needed to have that conversation. I feel like I've been really clear about what I, what I want and what I need and where there's room for concession and since the beginning of this relationship, I feel like. We've been in practice. There's some things that we've needed to be in practice about it. Wasn't about like, here's what I need. And this is really hard. And I don't have this resource and I have bad, really bad experiences with this, but like we've created such a platform of practicing saying those things. And I feel like even with some on ideal conditions, we've really navigated. From a foundation of true friendship and understanding of each other's trauma of each other's wants of our dreams. And we have a lot of mutuality in, in those directions and like our wounds that are operating, but also our greatness, I feel like we've really been able to encourage and like witness each other's greatness and part of that's like, I, I know that the part that a major part of that is. So having built a foundation from that really early on, and again, being willing to say like, so I need clarity on this. Do you want to have more kids? Because like, I need to not live with the question. The question was the thing that was, and like, I don't want to be sneaky about it and I don't want to be hopeful about it. And I don't want to wonder about it. Like I had, I had a feeling and then it needed to be named and I could, frankly, not. This is one of those pieces where I feel guilty because I'm like true. But like, I could not bear any more grief about babies. I like, I don't tend to give up on shit, but like, I couldn't, I actually got past my threshold about, about grieving children. Yeah. It needed to be like, I needed it. I needed something new at that point.
Tabitha:Yeah. Yeah. No, that's good. I mean, I'd get that, the question being out there as torture sometimes, and also like the not future faking somebody, like that's another thing, when my boyfriend broke up with me at one point, I was like, I never would have been with him if he hadn't really future page from the very beginning, like I probably never, we probably never would have gotten very far into our relationship.
Meg:Yeah.
Tabitha:It was just an interesting,
Meg:I wouldn't
Charley:stay, even if I, you know, one thing I remember when we had that conversation was even if I would've stayed in my marriage and none of that would've happened, we weren't, we were gonna have, we weren't going to have any more
Meg:kids.
Charley:Not in that one either. And then I found myself in a, in a ferry rapidly Deepening relationship way sooner than I think I expected with me. And so I was confronted with these questions way sooner than I had honestly had time to give that stuff to simmer too. And so I was still riding this wave of one and done kind of thing with my family. And then honestly, I didn't expect to find. To find such an incredible partner. For another, you know, I thought it was going to be a five or 10 year thing where, you just have time to do stuff, but here we were. And so, and then everything's like, that was kinda like, here we are. And here we are. And here we are all the time. She was nothing other than to be like this. Okay, here I am then.
Tabitha:Yeah. Yeah. And you risked possibly her saying, well, I want these things and right.
Charley:She's shown me an adult and I can, I have to trust that she's with all this stuff
Meg:and it's
Charley:worked out pretty
Meg:flawlessly so far. Yeah. Pretty awesome. Yeah. I would say. Yeah. And it's not like I don't, I have grief waves of the loss or of not having children. Like I definitely agree, but like yeah, so I just want to say that it's like, I know earlier I said, like, I'm done with, like, I just couldn't bear, like adding more potential grief to that mix. Inherently there is though, because my attachment and bond with Frida is like so strong that even her mom acknowledges it. That's special. Yeah. I mean, it's really special. It's like intense sometimes, but
Tabitha:yeah.
Meg:But yeah, like my, my attachment with Greta, I feel like our relationship is, is it's like that's risky too. It's not like I'm buffered from loss. Right. And I don't want to live a life buffered from loss. I think that's the thing about the shell dissolving that about coming home, right? Like, yeah. Coming home is actually I'm willing to risk living.
Tabitha:Yeah. He does
Charley:committed, free, super cute. We'll be watching TV in anything she knows is about to trigger each of us. She knows a lot of our triggers, financial pause it and be like,
Meg:okay. This is about to happen. This is about to happen,
Charley:you know, are you guys cool with like the scenes? And we're like, Oh, it's really cute. She's so I know that she she's aware and she's committed and she's into it. And this together really well.
Tabitha:It's really beautiful, unfortunately,
Charley:to see where it all goes.
Tabitha:Inspiration you guys, because I mean, there's so many people that follow me that are disconnected from family altogether. Like, like blood family and. You know, I always say, now is your chance to, become family to yourself, into build a family. And we get to make that, you know, we get to choose better people for us and yeah. Yeah.
Meg:Yeah. And it's, it's, it is it's particularly special because I don't know. I mean, like, how do I know how to build family this last year? I've been reflecting on that where I'm like, where do these skills and natural inclinations come from? Cause like, it's not like I particularly came from caring, but yeah. And even, even in, and a lot of my friendships, like I haven't particularly necessarily even allowed myself to be fully cared for. And I think that's part of the importance of my shell coming down is like, Hmm. Allowing myself to be held and met. And there's so much that we gleaned from being in relationship that we can kind of only get to you're in a relationship like I did as much as I possibly could by myself. Like I needed all the time that I gave myself to really be like when I, like, when I reflect on my arm's length nest and my first marriage, like. That I can be gentle with myself. Like there's part of my, that I needed to take accountability for it, but I also am like, of course
Tabitha:you were protecting herself
Meg:for like, I was protecting myself because of some of the things that happened in that relationship. But also like, I didn't really know any better. Like I didn't have many other experiences that, that proved to me that showed me what intimacy actually looks like. And in this relationship, I feel like we're increasingly. Taking off the cloak and like
Charley:it,
Meg:yeah. And then more and then more and then more and then pausing and also the pausing. And also it's not like there's no resistance or there's no like projects that we're working on. We're totally working on some projects, but I'm really grateful that two tender wounded people were, are able to like. Build something that's really resilient. And from what I can see, very healthy and truly very loving and very intimate. And I feel like for myself, that's like a Testament that I didn't need to be shown this, to know this. I feel like there's something maybe inherent about, Oh, this is such a mushy statement. I think there's something really inherent about love that If there's room that it doesn't even necessarily need ideal conditions that it can bloom it can be a wonderful teacher. I feel like I've been taught by that this year, this last couple of years. It's not like we've had the most ideal conditions and that's how we're building our good love we've been turning towards that. We've been recognizing where some things need attention and where they need care over time. Caring attention patient persistence rather than like, harsh, well, why don't you fucking know that and fuck off. It's like, Oh, you don't know that? Okay. Well, I have this experience and can we build from there and mutually, I feel like we're doing that.
Charley:Yeah. Not being afraid to speak up about it. She's good. Yeah.
Meg:Increasingly not being afraid.
Charley:Definitely quicker.
Meg:Yeah. One of my personal
Charley:challenges.
Meg:But again, as
Charley:long as a lot of the things that we're working on or that, you know, that past traumas seems like a lot of them that we work on it every time they come up, they're not going away. That's for sure they still still games coming up, but processes all getting smaller and shorter and shorter. Every time this stuff comes up and that's healthy, it's healthy.
Tabitha:Yeah. Hearing that you to experience a lot of safety within your relationship. So devoid of, of issues or things that need to be worked on, but it's like the more you do it, the more you realize it actually is safe we don't
Charley:have many with each other. And so I think it gives us a little thing to kind of have our own problems. Then it gives us space to kind of working through our, some of our own stuff. To be honest.
Tabitha:Yeah. Just been,
Charley:just been kind of nice because what we do, isn't very taxing. It seems like some other stuff that's been coming up, whether we like it or not to be dealt with. And like I said, those things keep getting easier and easier and less impactful every time. And
Tabitha:so.
Meg:And like you said, we're not using our bandwidth and our resources, trying to figure out how to get along with each other, or reaching into each other. So it's not even just getting along. It's like intimacy, which is a thing that I feel like I didn't know what that really felt like until this relationship part, because we've, we, we, don't always, it's not like we like think the same way about things, but particularly with like inner life language. I feel like we're able to really understand each other on the most deep, very personal things and that I don't know that's bridging a gap. Are we just talking about a relationship too much? Do you have other questions? Is this this? I think it's good.
Tabitha:I think, I think relationships are,
Meg:aware our deepest woundings are and they are where deepest healing happen
Tabitha:and the ability to see into each other, obviously, you know, that corny phrase in to me, see for intimacy. You see each other. And you also both know yourselves pretty well. And you've made a commitment to stand in your own self and be grounded in who you are. And there's that ability to take risks and say, this is who I am and know that you're okay. Whether the other person can meet you there or not. But it sounds like because you both make room for each other. There's this ability to just innately kind of understand and make room and work around these things and the other stuff that wants to be the tornado. Right.
Meg:We're not really kerfluffle to buy. We're like, we'll be like slightly agitated by things that are happening in the outside world. And then we'll just like, turn towards something generative, like making art or playing music or talking about things that feed us or literally feeding each other ourselves, or like, we're just really good at pivoting. We're good at pivoting. And it's just really nice because it's not, it doesn't feel dead or anxious to me again, not to compare it to other relationships, but in those dead days, which I felt like it was like the option. It was like, we're either going to like do things or it was going to be dead. There are like little moments where I think we both get a little stir crazy and it's a fucking pandemic or whatever. Like there's a lot, there are a lot of things at play here where maybe, and it was gray and dreary and it's winter, whatever color we like. We maybe it was Washington yesterday where like we maybe normally would have gone for a drive or something, but it's, it's like, it's a beautiful, rich, not necessarily having anything to do rather than like, I don't want to do any of the things that we should be doing. Hmm. Like, I don't know, look at that stuff. It's like, no, there's yeah. We can just relax today and the best and maybe get stir-crazy and board, which is actually nice. Cause it might like we'll either rest in it or it'll like, give us fuel for the, you know, the right kind of contrast for moving into things that we want to be doing.
Tabitha:Yeah.
Meg:We've been
Charley:dreaming a lot lately and I think some of the dreams that we've been dreaming about, we've gotten to spots where there's just like time now that we have to wait to enact some of them. If we can just, again, take, take time off,
Meg:take time off
Charley:yesterday from even doing a lot of the dreaming that we've been. And then the two of us. Allowed ourselves to have one more of that way, which is
Meg:fun. It's amazing to feel like dreaming as possible as somebody who's like not really had resource or time, or like whatever, emotional. Support. And it's
Charley:different from like the anxious living in the future thing. it's a generative, like
Meg:it's gentle.
Charley:It's fun.
Meg:Yeah. That's really
Tabitha:fun. Yeah. That's exciting. Vision is so important. Together. I think,
Meg:yeah. Vision is hard to have access to if you're living in trauma response, like it's actually really triggering to imagine things if you're like in a traumatic situation. Like, so I think that's why I think that's part of what we're talking about. Like that's, we're not coming from a triggered stance. We're coming from. Visioning life together and again, actually taking steps towards that.
Tabitha:Yeah. Yeah. That's true. Partnership.
Meg:Yeah,
Tabitha:I think it's good to see an example of a couple doing partnership and relationship in a very conscious and healthy way. Are you guys collabing on music lately? We
Meg:haven't been playing a lot of music in general lately, because I think we're just taking an overall pause. But, but yes,
Charley:we have our thoughts about the creative wave and the pandemic. Politics and everything we wrote, both of us wrote a whole bunch, right before we went into the pandemic. We both probably have an album's worth honestly, of stuff that we could, we could put out. And so we went into the pandemic, like with. Kind of done with an like, and so we really haven't played very much. We played, we've written a few new things too. It's just been more like playing around with different instruments
Meg:and sounds,
Charley:I started playing a little bit more electric guitar
Meg:with our stuff,
Charley:instead of all, just acoustic and even a song, a couple of songs. So it's been more of that kind of experimentation, honestly. I'm working with sounds and stuff. Thinking about recording, we were going to go out in April and re cord and do the album and blah, blah. But again, not, not bummed out because that'll also happen at some point it's even more feasible.
Meg:Now
Charley:it's a, it's an automatic, as soon as things let up, like. Yeah. So, so yeah, no again, I think we've been working on stuff. Yeah. But it's more like, just like honing stuff
Meg:in. I feel like my songs, like the way that I sing my song now, and even I'm working on a sound right now. And sometimes, sometimes when I'm writing, I like just saying it really fast and I'm finding myself like slowing tilt down now rather than like recording it really kind of like. Pushy. And then, and then settling into it. Like, I feel like I'm like settling into it and by the time we work for it, it's going to be self-actualized and these finalists are going to be more like embodied and themselves because yeah, I'm grateful for this time. In essence, this has been a very hardier in some ways, but like in my own personal scope, And I'll admit from my stance of privilege to have been able to like convert my business, to being online and having somehow having a food on the table, like we've like made do. And yeah, but like this year, actually the squeeze was right. I was able to like shift things that needed shifting that. I don't think I would have shifted without this. The circumstances. And again, even though it was hard in the first four or five months of like adjusting were like fucking ridiculous. That was ridiculous. But but I feel like actually I've been able to build things that I've always wanted to build that I wouldn't have built if I didn't, if I didn't make some of the shifts that this year demanded it, they were not requested. They were demanded.
Charley:Almost
Meg:like an orchestration as I maybe like to say with everything.
Tabitha:I really appreciate you guys. Both of you being here and Meg saying yes to my Laney. Request.
Meg:I love, I love that you're doing, I've always appreciated everything that you've found to have a, so I feel like your presence online really shifted. What I saw was possible. What I saw as possible. You're really intimate and you're brave and courageous. And you say the things that were really hard for me to say even though my mom is not really gonna like see anything I do on Instagram, let's get real. I feel like I'm overly bound by honor to say anything that actually happened. Even sometimes to myself, like, I feel like I've like held myself to Chris' standard of austerity around like, not shaming my parents. The thing is some of those things need to be named and I've been in this process of like acquiring my voice. And you have modeled that Tabitha, like you've really modeled saying the things as they actually are in a pretty loving and also fiercely true way. And I don't know, you've, you've opened up a lot for me and I really value what you put online and how you put it online and how caring and consistent you are in it. It like has actually altered my life. So, and frankly, I feel like social media is what we make it and. I choose to follow people that are willing to actually be there. And aren't just like putting on the, like the show, the curated yoga pants show. Like I don't care about it. I don't care about the fancy art. I don't care about any of that stuff. So what I care about is we have a tool that actually gives us access to. Knowing how to get along with ourselves and each other and the earth better. And that's like all, I care about. And you were one of the very first people that I found on there that I was like, well, you're doing that. You're brave. Okay. How can I be more brave? Like so yeah. So there you're awesome.
Tabitha:It means
Meg:a lot,
Tabitha:but you have, you have been just as much of a positive and healing influence in my life. And I really appreciate you., you have this commitment to becoming that I love and it's really felt
Meg:I love those words. I don't know that I would have said it like that, and I love that commitment to becoming, I actually wrote a chant yesterday. That's
Tabitha:that?
Meg:That's funny as I am becoming, and as I have been. So we are becoming, and as we have them,
Tabitha:I feel like
Meg:acknowledging that space of becoming keeps us humble, but also like standing potentially standing tall in like the moment that we're in, like, like this, this is, this is it. This is that. And
Tabitha:Hmm,
Meg:whether it's
Charley:before, during, after the journey, and this is recognized as. Yeah,
Meg:good spot. There are things that are diversion in my personality that I feel like we all are a little bit divergent within, whatever band we think we are. Back to this example of how I heard this friend, like, do I, do I imagine myself as somebody who's hurt people? Not usually, but have I heard people? Absolutely. Yeah. I've absolutely heard people. Did I hurt my ex-husband? Yes, I did. Like, I definitely, I was not always the person to have the right conditions to like, be of true support to him and Yeah. And that impacted him that like I had an impact on him, but when it comes down to my now, I'm like I have, I'm pretty well versed in my, in my, in my bandwidth. I'm pretty well versed in like my usual pathways. And I usually make kind of choices and And I feel like I have room that if I fuck up that I can, that I can return. And that feels like good. That's like, that's what I want. I want
Charley:fucked up. And we have returned.
Tabitha:So you guys don't want to cancel 2020. Is that what you're telling me?
Meg:I had a profound experience this year. I don't tend to, I don't want to erase anything that's happened in my life in general. And that includes this year. I feel like there've been a lot of, well, a lot of valuable things, including an opportunity to see collectively and individually where we're blind and what needs attention. And yeah, it's, again, it's kind of interesting being a person who comes from people of color, who, who. Has been very shaped by that who has not, I've not really had a lot of privileges in my life. And yet, like this year actually has moved me into some new standings and like, I oddly have enough and we have enough and we have each other and Yeah, like being called in to like see where there's a bit more work to do. I'm all I'm game for that. I want to know. Again, I feel like an essence of my life is like, I want to get along with myself and other people and this place more. And if there's a way that I could be more in alignment or more refined and serve all of that a little bit better, like I want to know about it and. I'm willing to do the work of that. So maybe not all the time, I definitely rest. I'm definitely like lazy, occasionally about things, but I feel like 2020 has offered a lot of opportunity For refinement, not for everybody. I feel like some people are just trying to get by and I totally get that. I feel like I've been there for most of my life just trying to get by. But this year, for some reason, I've had circumstance where I've been able to like unwind more and be of more service and step into more and share more. And also like I've received a lot more this year too. So yeah, I mean, I don't want to, I don't want to erase that. I don't want to cancel that. Yeah. Has that been a dumpster fire? Yeah. I mean, collectively, yeah, a little bit like have there been like struggling moments where I'm like, I want, and I can't have definitely, or like, like some of the things I want, I'm like, I definitely want people who were more Brown and black to like have more freedom to actually exist and like cannot happen immediately right now. No, apparently not, but like maybe we're closer. Maybe we're closer to that. And are we willing to do the work of that? I don't think one person can answer that, but I have hope I have vision with expectation of it being possible, which is how I identify. Is it possible? Yes. Is it going to require us to take steps? Definitely. I think part of that is this, I think part of taking steps, it's like. Doing the healing work. I think, I feel like my most activist activism is like so quiet. It seems so quiet. It looks like a daily painting. It looks like circle work. It looks like holding people one-on-one as they acknowledged and listened to themselves. Talk about their inner lives and hearing stories from what I've experienced so that there's some feedback or resonance. I feel like it's like getting into quieter places. And when it comes down to the pandemic, like this just feels like a rhythm that human needs needs fine. But like, I feel like, yeah, like we we've been here before. We don't remember that because we weren't here. But like collectively, which I tend to look at collective and like what we need and like, Not like we needed to be weeded out and population control. I'm not so much in that camp, but like it's, cause it's not really for me to decide those things, but like, this is what I, what I can notice is that this is a pattern and isn't that interesting and
Tabitha:yeah.
Meg:Is it good or bad? I don't, I don't know. And do we have any control over it I feel like we definitely could have done some things differently this time, but like we didn't, so
Tabitha:yeah. Charlie
Charley:I think it was a real opportunity for people to take a
Meg:break.
Charley:I think the whole. Planet pushed themselves too far, too fast, and the whole system needed to be shut down a little bit. And honestly, I honestly think we back in all this, the
Meg:com and
Charley:this was all an opportunity for us to, again, slow down and kind of. You know, there were many parts of both makes and I's life that now we look back that were almost like, got us ready for what's about to happen. Yeah. Some of the coming in the future and coming up or no different again, there's an elegant nature to all this and maybe it's just because that's the way we're just looking at life more. What, but It's
Meg:unfortunate that a lot of people had to die.
Charley:It's super unfortunate that so many people had to die
Meg:and, and they maybe didn't have to die
Charley:and they didn't have to die for sure. But again,
Meg:I believe
Charley:in forces way bigger than, you know, things like that then. And we are, as people.
Tabitha:This
Charley:is really been an interesting ride,
Meg:sad
Charley:for people that think it's fake and help the community and recognize the communities. That they're part of that part makes me really sad.
Meg:You have an opportunity to sync more community-wise and globally, and he may, you know, thinking more for a greater good than yeah. Or on,
Charley:I do recognize that we had, we had, you know, we, we were, again, we were sort of prepared for. For this in a really elegant manner. We rented this house, not in the middle of nowhere
Meg:on the side of the street,
Charley:literally two weeks before everything's shut down. There's so many aspects. Like I said, that happened that we look back and go, Holy smokes. Like we lived in this apartment building downtown of the city two weeks before that. And I can't imagine going through this and that little place.
Meg:Yeah. And I do feel like if we do have the privilege of having this year worked out that like, we do have a responsibility yeah. Way with that. And I think there's not the whole point of privilege. It's not about playing small with it. It's like share it. Yeah. So I feel like from this stance, I feel like the CIHR has provided a lot of opportunity for us to heal and to now we have opportunity to, to share.
Tabitha:Yeah. Yeah. I love that. That's beautiful.. Charley: I think as artists stage of this whole big thing. So I'm just recognizing my place luckily, we have created a life that allows us to isolate as hard as we have just been great for everything from our nervous system to our nutrition
Meg:and making art. You're making a lot of ours. I think embodiment is just so multifaceted. It's coming home to yourself is so almost like acid. It requires a willingness to actually listen and show up and turn towards yourself and do the thing that your actual self has asked dunno. I don't, I don't have like a quippy cool thing to say about embodiment. No,
Tabitha:I love that. That you're being different mag. Okay. No, I love that because I just like having the different perspectives because , I want to really impart through my podcast that healing looks different for everybody. It's not this cookie cutter thing. And just because you're not doing the Wim Hof breathing exercises or cold showers or whatever doesn't have to be a prescribed thing. It can be you knowing yourself more and that can look differently for you, yeah. So I want to open up those possibilities for everybody to like, yes. What you do could really hit home with somebody and they could be like, Oh, I need to lean into that more. I am kind of already in like little more, you know? Yeah.
Meg:Yeah. And I feel like sharing. I'm so grateful for this conversation and conversations like this, because I feel like. When we share from our inner life, we, we, we make offerings for other people to have access to their inner life. Like my language, the things that I do may not be the thing that you want to do, but like there might be a spark that happens from that, from that interaction that that can grow I mean, my daily painting seed. So I've had a daily practice since I was 17, but the daily painting didn't come clear to me until I witnessed somebody in the UK who was posting on their Instagram 30 faces in 30 days challenge. And I was like, I want to
Tabitha:do that.
Meg:That feels like a practice that I want to lean into. I've been, I had tried all kinds of things ranging from writing a pen tome or physical movement or sketching or whatever. Like visiting myself in every, in some way every day, but it took me like 15 years to discern where it was actually going to land what it was actually gonna look like. And the 30 faces in 30 days was my entry point. And then it turned into a year and now it's still going. And so somebody sharing their practice, I didn't want to make faces. I didn't want it to be like a repeating, like 30 day challenge challenge. It wasn't about a challenge for me. And it wasn't about faces, like their thing. Wasn't my thing. But their thing totally helped me drop into my thing. And so yeah, but in terms of embodiment, I feel like there's so many, there's so many, it's necessitated multiple pathways for me, like receiving care from others. Listening, finding ways to hear myself, to visit myself, to like touch it a little bit. Maybe not get it all done. I don't feel like we ever get it done. Like, I don't think I'm gonna like know myself. I feel like, wow. I have more of an understanding of my, of my, my, you know, my usual threshold, but yeah. Yeah, daily painting daily painting, some kind of like visitation with yourself. Yes. Has room for profound movements. I really actually kind of like rolling around and like stretching and thinking and like the coziness of it and like, If I have a free morning, the likelihood that I'm like up at seven, but like rolling around until eight is like pretty high.
Tabitha:Yeah. Yeah.
Meg:Because I just like how it feels. And I, I wake up alert and kind of ready for my day, but I need, some transition time where I'm like, Tending what my dreams were intending erection for the day and tending my body. And like,
Tabitha:I do that
Meg:quiet time because I'm like often like serving other people in my day. Like I'm like either in relationship or like literally serving or holding space for other people. And so I feel like, yeah, I've really allowed myself to saver. Those kinds of transitions a little bit more.
Tabitha:Yeah. Recognizing transition. The need for transition is huge.
Meg:And also like where I can transition from work into relationship and, you know, thank you Meg, for being willing to whatever, it's like all these spaces where we've had to. Meet and accommodate, but again, I feel like we're able to meet and accommodate without like losing her. Can you hear us?
Tabitha:I can hear you.
Meg:No. upside down.
Tabitha:Off
Meg:the ground.
Tabitha:yay.
Meg:That
Tabitha:was amazing. I like that. It's on this zoom call, zoom
Meg:recording. That
Tabitha:was the perfect song. For this episode.
Meg:I had a feeling feeling it would be a
Tabitha:good fit. Thank you, Meg. Thank
Meg:you so much. Thank you, Charlie. Yeah. Thank you, Charlie.
Charley:Stay on the, stay on the pulse. One good thing about both your guys' work. It seems like you both are really on the pulse of. The big picture and I really appreciate that about you.
Tabitha:Thank you. I can't wait to have dinner with you guys. I'll be there next
Meg:week. Yes, you
Tabitha:too. Thank you
Meg:guys. Yeah. Thank you, Tom.
Tabitha:Have a good afternoon evening. Yeah, I love you friend.
Meg:I love you so much. Talk to you soon. All
Tabitha:right, bye.
