Episode 01 2: I Turned My Abuser in From the Brink of Suicide

Ryan Gadsby of Edge of the Bed Podcast talks about his story of survival after childhood sexual abuse by his narcissistic step father. He and Tabitha Brooke talk about the similar narcissistic qualities their religious parents had, coming back from the brink of suicide to telling the police about the abuse and the ways in which Ryan is using his podcast platform to help other survivors by sharing stories of healing and inspiration.

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Transcript

Tabitha: 0:00

Welcome Ryan.

Ryan: 0:03

Thank you,

Tabitha: 0:05

Ryan Gadsby is joining us on the podcast today. We are going to talk about all things healing. And stories that might be relatable to anyone out there who's going through similar things. So, Ryan, I listened to your first podcast on the edge of the bed.

Ryan: 0:27

Yeah. I originally called it like a filmed it at the edge of my bed but, I don't film it there anymore.

Tabitha: 0:35

I was doing that too for a while. I like your logo and everything too. Did you design it yourself? Yeah, it's really good. I like it. Can you tell me the story behind the title fully and,

Ryan: 0:48

um, yeah. Um, So I have a story of sexual, physical, um, emotional abuse from my stepdad. This went on for eight years. Um, and a lot of the abuse happened after school, in my bedroom, um, on my bed, on the edge of the bed. Um, so not to get like graphic, but yeah, on the, on the edge of the bed. Um, and yeah, that's, that's um, that's where the name comes from. Yeah.

Tabitha: 1:16

That's. Yeah, when I read the title of your podcast, I was like, Oh, this makes so much sense because I think, you know, we read stories of sexual abuse and it's such a, it's such a specific, I come, I wasn't personally like physically sexually abused, although there are elements too. I think all abuse, especially within family where it touches on those areas. I mean, it touches your sexuality. And so, um, yeah, the is just really fitting. I feel like. And,

Ryan: 1:49

and, and like you think of the places, um, where these things happen and obviously the really negative places. But also in my experience I experienced, um, sort of dissociating, in things that and while it was happening, I would go off to different places in my mind, like, you know, happy memories, happy places. And it was like, it became this space because at the time you don't really know what's happening. So it's not a negative thing at the time. You just didn't get something you have to do for me. I describe it as like a chore. That's how it felt, which is really weird. It's a weird way to describe it, but it's something you have to do and you think, Oh, most kids probably have to do this. And, um, yeah, it just, eventually it became a space where my brain would go off and I didn't know why he did that, but while these things were happening, I think it was my brain's way of protecting me as something like you bring us as a way of doing that, but it was like, my brain would go like, Oh, and I guess it is nice. Yeah.

Tabitha: 2:56

Yeah.

Ryan: 2:57

Very like dissociation now from, if you spell that proves something called depersonalization derealization disorder. Have you had, have you heard of

Tabitha: 3:07

that? Yeah, I have heard of it and I haven't, um, I haven't fully studied it. I I've tended to dissociate. Um, I don't know if it's similar. Can you explain what that is? A little bit more.

Ryan: 3:19

And so I feel like there's two, like parts of it, one's like emotionally, so you just dissociate emotionally and then dissociate physically. Um, obviously it's just, it's all mental, but you feel like you dissociate physical. So the first time I ever experienced it were at a, um, it was that like a family pie and my abuser was there as well. And, um, I looked down. At my hands and it was like, time just sort of slowed down. And it was the weirdest thing because I looked at my hands and do his like, felt like it was someone else's, you know, and like a game or like TV, where they have that camera on the head and they look around and it looks all weird. It was a lot what was actually happening. And then I experienced that for like, nonstop, for like, Five months after that, going to school with it. And I couldn't take any information in I'm sitting in class, but I feel like I'm like all the way, all the way up here. Um, when I'm, you know, and everyone's like, Ryan you alright? I remember like one of the people in class, I was like, just, they're like sort of trying to focus and one of the kids like you alright? And then not may, you know, like, someone asks you if you're. All right. And you go like all panicky, like, do I look weird? That's fair enough. And. Yeah. And the experience of that hasn't stopped, but I've learned ways to sort of deal with it. And it's quite a common thing as well for people who've had trauma in their. Childhood who experienced dissociative disorders that can experience dissociative amnesia, um, uh, depersonalization derealization. So yeah, and the emotional side is sort of not being able to feel anything being, numb, you know, Just, yeah, you want to feel happy. You want to feel sad sometimes. Like, sometimes I want to cry. Sometimes I want to cry and I'm like, why can't I just cry? I feel like I need to get it out, but I'm like, just, just let me cry. Yeah. I mean, my body just won't let me cry and you know that to deal with that, like we years. And it's only now, like we sort of methods that I'm using that I'm managing to reach the emotions that are in there. That makes sense. Um, so yeah.

Tabitha: 5:32

Yeah. And you're again, you're you're 19. Correct. And this all stopped at the age of

Ryan: 5:40

16. Yeah. Um, the sexual abuse stopped when I was a bit younger. This guy was a pedophile. So when his attraction to me stopped that's when it was more physical, more forceful. And also it was like a way of keeping me quiet. Um, and like, it was all the way through. It was emotional because you know, the manipulation starts when I first met him. He was really nice to me. Uh, give me stuff, like thing was like I'm from a family that, um, my mom was a single mom, was a single mom with two kids, me and my sister. Uh, we're on like a sort of council estate, which you don't know what it is. It's just like the government pay for house in. Right. Um, and you know, we was, a few like, weeks from getting evicted, I'm going to pay the little bit rent that we needed to pay. And that's when we met him. And I remember he started approaching me first, when we first met him. Um, and then saw who my mom was and then, you know, got close with her. But yeah, like the manipulation and stuff at the start was who I've got an X-Box at my house. I've got, um, a race car track. I remember the race car truck in his little outhouse thing. And he was a lot wealthier and he was like a logistics manager and, uh, yeah. And we was all like, whoa whoa whoa, when we visited his house and then. It was like, my mind was blown up people, actually lived like this and It'd be all this cool stuff and yeah.

Tabitha: 7:10

Yeah. And you were saying how, when, um, the abuse first started, like you, it was kind of, um, presented to you as like, this is normal. This is what a father does for a son the amount of manipulation is incredible. When you look

Ryan: 7:25

back. Hmm. And what was not actually surprising to me was he had done it like loads, like about four times before me and he's cause looking back he knew exactly what he was doing. It was, you know, he knew what marks to hit and what to say at the right time. And yeah, it just seemed like, yeah, like he'd done it before, So, yeah, it's, it's like I say it started off all nice. And, um, yeah. And when, when that lost control, when he lost control, um, cause I actually confronted him about what happened to me when I was like 12. Um, when you get into 12, like all teenagers, they become, you know, you get more confident, you get more sort of thing and that's what happened. And I can't remember exactly how the conversation went and that was the first time it got forceful. Like that's the first time it got like aggressive.

Tabitha: 8:26

Yeah. I, when I was listening to your story, I could relate to a lot of the characteristics you were describing about your abuser and. I could just relate so much. I think he, to me, he sounds like a narcissist or someone with narcissistic personality disorder.

Ryan: 8:44

Yeah, for sure. Um, with

Tabitha: 8:46

the rage and the amount of manipulation and the gaslighting and all of that, um, And I, I could still relate my mother acted and really similar ways. And I remember like 12, 13 was when she really started kind of bearing down. Like I didn't, there were sides of her I hadn't seen yet until those ages. And, um, yeah, it's just really interesting. The amount of control they like to have too. And. I'm just curious. So you mentioned some things about like rules that you had and can you explain some of that and how that was different than the other kids around and,

Ryan: 9:29

yeah, so it was, it escalated fast but at first it was sort of I had to be in earlier than the other kids. Um, and also like I was allowed out later when I lived alone with my mom. Than I was when we started living with him. And then as I got older, um, it was like, he'd buy all my clothes. And like, I didn't have a choice in what I could wear, um, and then third run from there. Um, the sc probably the scariest thing was I was laid in bed one night and I looked. Down towards like, my computer was at the bottom of my bed and I looked down towards the computer and you know, the little light that are on webcams, a light comes on that only happens when the camera's on so that I like crawl on the cause I think someone's hacking my computer from my outside. So I like crawled under the ca- where the camera can see my go into my computer when it's on the camera setting. Like someone who has control of my computer and as the camera setting and I can see my face , I'm like, and then it quickly goes off like really quickly, it just all goes off. And then I like kept an eye on it. I just thought it was like some hacker or something. I used to turn my computer off and split it up. And then. One day. Um, I was, um, Hoovering my room and I was hoovering the top corners of the wall to get like cobwebs or dust or whatever. Um, and a bit of paint like scratched off. And there's this little, little lens in the corner of my room. And then I knew they had CCTV and all connected up into the lofts. I'm thinking. He's got a camera all connected in, into, you know, all the other cameras. And so I go on to the CCTV app and on his computer when he's out at work and then I go onto it and then all the cameras light up and then mine lights up. In my, in my bedroom, and I'm like, all this time, I've been watched all the time. I've been in my room thinking I'm alone and I've been watched. And that was like, That was just, it was horrifying. It was there's a lot of horror films made on stuff like the landlord and things like that, where they're being watched by cameras. And then like, it's like, I'm dealing with something more than I thought, because at this point, like the sexual abuse had happened and everything, but, it wasn't a point where I thought we'd done anything wrong. Really? Like, I still like, love him. Like my dad and I still, you know, Um, and then there was another thing with the tracker in mu phone. And I went down to meet some friends and we, I wasn't allowed like, pretty much far away from the house and I had to be in at five, but I didn't finish school until half two. So I'd get home, I'd get changed. It'd be like quiet pass Frey. And I'm like running out and go meet my friends. Um, and then I meet them at this park, which I wasn't allowed to be at. It wasn't that far from my house realistically. Um, and like I finished meeting my, one of my friends, I'm walking and walking the road and I'm walking and then I feel like someone grabbed me like this from behind. Sort of like that . And then I'm like what he's going off. And like, you know, your adrenaline hits and everything s dreamlike next day, knowing that I'm in the back of the car and, um, and his face roughly the same, it's my abuser. So, um, And like, he's looking at me like, um, like this red look like crystal -eyed um, and, uh, like I'm obviously really shook up and I think it's more than he's ever seen before. Cause I'm really like, um, like on edge. and he says Um, see, you shouldn't go there because, um, that could have been anyone. I could have been anyone coming to kidnap. Yeah. And, and, um, and then it was another time where I was going to check the route, um, where I was going to go to college and I got on the bus. And then, um, I decided I wanted to go to my girlfriend's Sophie's house. This was a lot later on. This was like towards the end. Um, so I turned my phone off because at that time I knew I had a tracker in there. Let's say my phone went off and Sophie's getting. Like hundreds of calls from him, like hundreds of calls, texts, where are you? Where's Ryan? Where are you? Like, how would he have known, any anything's changed? You know what I mean? So that's what like yeah, I went off the radar. Yeah. And just that loss of control for a split second sent him. And then when I got back card and, put it politely, got the crap beat out of me, um, Oh, yeah. There was a, there was a lot more, but they they're the main sort of thing. Yeah. And, and, and things I'd noticed in his character was things like, if you're making a joke, I can make a joke about anyone else in the house. And he loved it. He loved to people making jokes about each other. If I make a joke about him, No, it's not happening like, he, he thought he was a lot higher than everyone else in the house. My mom, my sister, um, you know, no one could stand up to, what he said and yeah, that was sort of these character. But everyone described him as the life of the party and things like that. So he had this. This character he'd play in public situations where he was this nice guy. He was a lay-reader for the church. He was this community guy. And then behind the scenes, he's just an aggressive abuser, narcissist sociopath, you know? Um, yeah. And yeah, he is. It was crazy.

Tabitha: 15:47

Wow. It is crazy. It is crazy. And yet we think it's normal. Like we think that's because it's our family.

Ryan: 15:56

Yeah. At the time I'm like,

Tabitha: 15:59

Hey, we know something's off, but it's like,

Ryan: 16:02

yeah. Yeah. Like I saw the differences between. Like my friends and stuff. And I'd just tell him all their religious, just religious, that's what religious people. Do you know the Truckee phone and watch you through a webcam at night? You know? Um, yeah, like it's so weird looking back, but at the time I liked, for some reason I felt very guilty whenever I'd think bad about him. So I used to try and justify it in my head like, Oh yeah, this is normal Ryan. This is normal. This is fine. Um, And like yeah, then it wasn't but and like, I felt so much empathy for him and this went down to the day, like I even told the police, like, I'm still just cause I'm the day that I told the police, um, I faked going to work, but I went to the police station instead, and I'm stood in the toilets at work. And I'm like bawling my eyes out. Yeah. Like, what am I doing? But now I'm thinking of all the, like the good memories and stuff. Cause there is good memories. I'm not going to like. Okay. Yeah, yeah. Yeah. Like, like I wasn't locked in a basement all my life and you know, we went on really nice holidays. We went on amazing trips and you know, I had, you know, he was my dad, you know, and I'd never had that and that's all I ever wanted. A dad. And, um, and yeah.

Tabitha: 17:33

So your girlfriend at the time, is she still your girlfriend?

Ryan: 17:37

Yeah, she is.

Tabitha: 17:38

She kind of helped you hatch a little plan.

Ryan: 17:42

Yeah. Yeah. So she didn't on the day that, um, I told the police, I had written suicide letters the night before. Cause I was going to take my own life, my broken up, like. I broken up to, you know, shavers and got the two blades out and I've gotten like taped the top together. So it was one bigger blade. Um, and I was going to go into the bathroom, lock the door and, and yeah. Um, but just as that was about to happen, she calls me. Which was like crazy because I told her never to call me because if he saw that Sophie was calling me big trouble, if he' saw Sophie was texting me, I'm in big trouble. And so I told her never to call me, but she just calls me this day. I think it's the only time that she's called me, um, as well at the time. And, um, And yeah, and I answered the phone and she's like, I know something's wrong. And I'm like, what do you mean? Like, I hadn't spoken to her. I don't know. I can just feel something's wrong. Right. And then like, just in that moment, um, yeah, I just, I just told her everything she's like, she just, she didn't know what to say. She's like what? bear in Mind. we was very young. Um, 16 in 16, I think so. Um, she like tells her mom like instantly. Um, and then her mom's like, okay, well don't tell him to confront him or anything. Like, uh, just say, go to work and we'll meet you there, so, yeah, that was the plan went into work. And the last thing I said to him was I'm not going to keep the secret anymore. I'm not keeping that anymore. And, um, I feel like in that moment that he realized it lost all the power and, um, and he was like, I think he said something like, stop it with that attitude Ryan or something like that, something he said all the time and I'm being so disrespectful. Yeah, it was so like, when I look back Yeah, I could have ruined his life like that. He, yeah. Yeah. I mean like, and I was just, but he had all the control. He had all the control. Um, you know, I felt like I couldn't get out of it. And I felt, there was no way out of it. And now looking back, it's so weird because people like narcissists and sociopaths, they don't just, they don't just change the way they act. They change the way that you act. You know what I mean? Change the way that you feel. Yeah. And, um, especially when you're really young, um, because they manipulate you at an age where that's all you ever know, to fit what they want. So, yeah. Well,

Tabitha: 20:39

well said it's yeah, it's so true. Um, so I'm just curious, like what you've been doing for the last three years to, um, how did you get to the place where you wanted to start the podcast?

Ryan: 20:56

Um, so straight after everything had happened, um, it was quite a dark place. Um, I stopped eating, um, and that last like three stone, I don't know what that is in pounds. I lost three stone. It just it's a lot of weight. Um, um, Um, I'm going to google what a stone is, um, and I ended up going to a and e, um, cause I think I was like in ketosis or something like that, but my, um, I was so skinny that it was getting to a really dangerous place.

Tabitha: 21:38

It's fourteen pounds, everybody. A stone is 14

Ryan: 21:41

pounds. There we go. Um, And, and, and yeah, and then that was the, so a little bit of a wake up moment for me. Um, and then I started meeting with a mentor, um, it's called Mike is an amazing guy. Um, he's, he's from the Christian Church as well, but it's not one of those.that'll push it on you. It's just a very, it's, it's a very wise person. Um, like when I go and meet him, The conversation's just led by me. He's like a counselor in a way. Um, and I started meeting with him and he was like showing me these opportunities to get back into work and stuff. Um, and I ended up being like a youth volunteer. Um, and that sort of got me back, um, to wanting to. Sort of help young people as well. Um, get me a passion for that, especially hearing some of their stories too. Um, and S and stuff in my personal life. Um, I think I'm just taking it random hobbies to see what I like or they'd like fill them in. I did like animal care, and carpentry. I didn't like, and I ended up not doing any of them. I stuck with the filming and stuff with the podcast and that, and then I started doing, uh, like exercise martial arts. I do a martial art called jujitsu and which is like yoga, but you're forced into the positions instead. Um, And yeah, that was was great because it gave me like comfortability with being close to people, men like, um, physical contact with men. Um, and yeah, it just gave me a lot of confidence to, you know, get back, get back to sort of what I should have been like, I don't know. Um, and then I started running recently. Um, which is, um, is great. Like your mind goes to like the idea of meditation is to clear the mind and in both jujitsu and running, um, your mind just kind of get to a place where entities it's like, I don't know, active meditation and something. I'd describe it as, um, Yeah, they'd been massive. Massive helps. I did try counseling. Um, but I didn't find it very beneficial. I found it like, it just, I think it was a bit early because it was like the year after, or two years after. And just bringing it up all the time. I just thought, I don't really want to sit here and talk about it. Like I got to a point where she was like, and how does that link to the abuse? And I'm just like, I don't know. Well, I don't really want to talk about it today. And then it just got to a point where I was going in and I was telling this, my old woman that I'd like been to the shop laughed afternoon. And like, I was just doing anything to avoid talking about it. Um, And, and then, yeah, so mainly the running the jujitsu. So I recently tried meditation guided meditation and just from YouTube videos and Russell run's channel. Yeah. Yeah. Um, and yeah, I've been getting into meditation and mindfulness and I keep a mindfulness journal every day. And it's good. Yeah, so,

Tabitha: 25:03

yeah, it's good. I have, I mean, journey, it's been like 10 years since I left and then I've had some, you know, toxic, difficult relationships in between. Um, I actually found a hidden camera when I moved out of the last place in my bedroom, our bedroom. Um, so I can relate a little bit to the camera story. Um,

Ryan: 25:28

It's such a feeling of like violation that is probably one of the most impactful things like yeah. Of the whole story. Like it makes you so uncomfortable honestly. Yeah. It's

Tabitha: 25:40

like, yeah, it really does. It's it's hard to explain the feeling. Um, but I was moving out and I was like, Oh, well, I left it right on his side of the bed before I left. I was like, I don't even going to address this done. Um, but I've found that, you know, your brain and your body, they tend to know like when stuff needs to come up and when it needs to be healed. And it sounds like you're just really taking care of yourself in a good way for when those things are ready to come through and, you know, It's not all going to be healed at

Ryan: 26:19

once. Yeah, of course. And I think for a time I was trying to force the healing, you know, that's such a bad thing to do. It's such an unhealthy thing to do. Um, Like, I've struggled with health anxiety as well. Like that's another big thing. Like I get a little aches and pains and I'm searching like, like cancer on Google and yeah. I mean, like I'm like insane in like any symptom I get. I think it's worst case scenario, you know? Um, I think what that is is the brain coming up with ways to, um, replace, um, some of, you know, what it spent all these years. And fight in and, and China protect itself. And then you come to a place where like, uh, like the second year of getting out of abuse, I was loving it. It was amazing doing all these things. I'm like going to like festival things and I go and see bands and stuff, and it like felt, I remember the first time I went on the bus, um, just goint o the mall with my girlfriend and I'm like, Oh, happy. Like, she's like, she's amazed at how amazed I am about going to the mall on my own. And it's like, I had all this joy and then I feel like your brain just finds ways, you know, because I feel like you find comfortability in your anxieties, but does that make sense? It's like, yep. Um, it's like from the song, but in silence, by Khalid he says, I found peace in your violence. And that's like, and that's so relatable because that's what happens, it's what, you know? Yeah. Yeah, yeah. So, yeah, but the second year was amazing. Like, do you remember when, when you got out with like, and feeling that freedom for the first time?

Tabitha: 28:10

Really? I feel like after leaving my last relationship, it was probably last year, honestly, and I was, wow. I mean, I was 39. I was like 20 years ahead of you, but I was going to like music festivals, not in this last year with COVID, but the year before that, um, like music festivals and. You know, just trying everything because I hadn't really had the opportunity, you know, to be myself or find myself in a way. So yeah, I can totally relate to just like, Oh my gosh, I don't have to answer to anybody. I don't have to. Cause I would get into relationships that felt very like. Similar to my family in a way it was, it was what was comfortable to me. Um, so I didn't really, yeah, I would say I haven't really, hadn't really broken free until like two years ago, like a year and a half, two years ago. So, but I, I went no contact with my own pers my family. It's a, it's kind of a stages kind of thing. Um, But, yeah, I'm curious, it's it makes me interested in your story because you know, you were eight when you met this person and you must have had some kind of foundation with your mother, perhaps of some kind of bonding that was helpful to you in a way, I don't know. Yeah. Maybe not. Maybe

Ryan: 29:39

they say, um, your pre-programming, um, happens before the age of eight, right? Um, So I feel like I was not lucky. but I feel like a early childhood trauma has a more even pot than from what I've experienced. Like I'm not speaking for everyone, but from what I've experienced, um, like people always say to me, you turned out so well, considering what's happened. And like, I got to get the a lot and like, Um, similar stories, but from younger ages and it seems to be, you know, more impactful on where people's Pasco.

Tabitha: 30:27

Yeah. It just seems like you've had a little bit more of an ability to kind of the fact that you did dissociate. So in a very kind of clear way, it was kind of clear to you when it was happening. I do think there's something to that. I think you, I don't want to say you bounce back cause that's a really lame thing to say. But it's almost like you got back to a more, you didn't have as much cognitive dissonance as somebody who would have experienced it from birth. If that makes any sense, it doesn't make it any less. Doesn't make it any not less.

Ryan: 30:58

Yeah. And that's completely true. Yeah. Um, I haven't had severe mental health problems from it. Um, and I don't have schizophrenia or anything like that. Um, and people who experienced it at such a young age, usually developed things like schizophrenia, things like psychosis. It's like people usually re-offend also not usually, sorry, can re-offend if it's on dealt with, um, like hit and things like that, um, So, yeah. It's yeah, I was looking, but I don't know. That's funny, but yeah,

Tabitha: 31:34

no, you weren't lucky. I know what you're saying. I think, you know what I'm trying to say. Um, so what were you, what do you want to go to school for? You were saying starting university.

Ryan: 31:47

Yeah. I'm at university. Sorry. Yeah,

Tabitha: 31:49

yeah, yeah. Yeah. So American

Ryan: 31:54

pretty bad. Yeah. Um, so it was weird because I did my, because in the UK we have, um, high school. Yeah. High school college, and then we have the university and colleg is like. Um, things like specific areas. So you might do carpentry, you might do psychology, you might do like, there's so many different things you could do. Whereas our normal high school is just English, math, science. Um, and, and when you get them, if you get them all, you can go to college. And, but what's really good is I did a college course, um, on film and TV production, but I ended up doing, um, Uh, psychology with counseling at my university course. So that's what I'm doing now. Psychology with counseling and with education, I think as well.

Tabitha: 32:50

Okay. I was going to say, I hope that you're going into that area because, um, yeah, you, I mean, obviously you've studied it a bit but you put it into practice I think. And you have a really good understanding of it.

Ryan: 33:07

Yeah. So.

Tabitha: 33:08

Yeah, I think it, I mean, to me having a counselor or a psychologist or somebody in that field at all, who's been through, it is so much more effective. I feel like, especially for other people who've been through it. So what do you want to do with that? Where would you like to go or do you know yet? Are you just going to let it take you where it takes you?

Ryan: 33:31

Yeah, I mean, I want to make my own charity eventually. And for young guys specifically teenage guys, um, because I remember when I was like trapped in abuse, I used to go to the library, wifi, and I used to search like male teenage abuse survivors open up. And I used to like search things that are, and I never really. Found anything. Yeah. Um, and that's like, one of the things that made me really want to make a podcast and everything is because that's what I needed to hear. Um, and, and so that, that was, that's sort of what I want to do. Um, like a charity and then like maybe part-time work in a school, school counselor. Um, and then, yeah.

Tabitha: 34:16

What do you think are some signs that you had, like behavior patterns or things like that in school that would be helpful for, I don't know, kids in school or teachers or whatever to take note of and start asking questions

Ryan: 34:32

and see, I think that is a really hard one, this, because, um, I feel like with sexual abuse specifically, sometimes the child doesn't want anyone to know at that point. Right. And if the child doesn't want people to know, then you're probably not going to be able to find out until they're ready to tell someone on that. I think I speak about that a lot because you know, people say kids who, um, They were really naughty or kids who are, um, really quiet and things that when it's not really, because I went to school and I was really joyful and like the school was my favorite place. It was like, it was the escape, it was the escape from everything. And like, I messaged friends from school and everything like that. And just said to him, like, You made my life amazing at school, like coming and seeing you guys every day took away things that were happening at home. And, and for kids, like, like seeing school, I'll be like for some of them it's their escape, but going back to like, um, the earliest thing, I think if it did happen in the earlier years, you'll maybe notice cognitive things and maybe they're a little bit academically slow or, um, you know, they might be. Aggressive or a bit physical with the other children? Um, yeah, it makes sense. One of the things is maybe over-of fearing parents. Cause that's one thing I had, like I had a science teacher and um, she sent me out. I can't remember what for, um, and then I was, she like came out to speak to me and instantly I was like, please, please, please, please, please do not even not call my parents. I'll behave and everything and she's like, I'm going to have to call you. I'm going to have to call you and I'm like, please, please, please, please do not call my parents please. And, um, and she did. And you know, I think so over-fearing clear over-fearing of parents is maybe, maybe, uh, a sign.

Tabitha: 36:27

Yeah. Yeah, that's a good, uh it's. Yeah, it's probably definitely hard to know. I think, I think that about that too, like typical signs you learned about, you know, like misbehaving or, you know, not able to concentrate or that kind of thing. But when I think back to school, school was also my happy place, like being away or when I'd go to wait until like summer camp for a week or whatever, it was like, just. It was like, I felt like myself for the first time,

Ryan: 36:58

some of the teachers were so nice compared to like, say like, yeah. And just seeing like the nice teachers and it was, yeah, he's great. Yeah. In some ways, like some kids can be brought by the teachers. Definitely.

Tabitha: 37:16

Yeah. Did you ever have any teachers I'm just curious, you were like, iffy about like they were. I don't know.

Ryan: 37:26

You mean that I disliked . Yeah. uhm people that look like him. And I still have a bit of an issue with that now. Like yeah. Probably look like him is a massive trigger for me. Like. bald men glasses. Like if I see a bottom then with glasses, something wrongly, wrongly, and I'm trying to try and change, change that but , wrongly, i do think, pedophile I can't help. I can't help. I don't know if you have to cut that out, but I do think like"pedophile", um, but yeah, I'm trying to train my way out of doing that. Um,

Tabitha: 38:08

yeah. I think that's the only natural.

Ryan: 38:10

Yeah. And then some people, like if they have tendencies, like in people who wants to control the situation all the time just makes me. Like, yeah. Like people who were just like, especially teachers that this, some teachers are so controlling, like yeah. If you speak up to them and they think, yeah, you, the child speak up to me and like this isn't what we should teach our children. Like, don't teach children, but you are lower than another. You can't speak up to an adult because guess what happens when they go home and they gettnig abused by an adult, they think, Oh, my teachers are speaking to me like that too, yeah. So I feel like. There needs to be like work in that as well. Like just teach children that they are equal to adults and

Tabitha: 38:53

yeah. Yeah. That's so important. It's, it's just amazing to me too. It could be anyone who has these tendencies and who thinks of people as lower than they are, or needs to control because of something lacking in themselves, whatever it is, and it's abusive and it can really be anyone. And. You know, that whole thing of like the narcissistic family values that I grew up with. Like, we maintained the image of the family at all costs. You know, if we went out somewhere, it was like, we all looked like we had our stuff together. We had to like compliment our parents and it was just like, we had to keep the lie going,

Ryan: 39:33

you know? Yeah. Yeah. I can definitely relate to that. Um, like in public, In public people. used to thik that me and my abuser was best mates, you know, like and think, like we was the closest thing ever. And like, and then as soon as that door closes is like, this guy just changed completely. And not just with me, like with my whole family, like. Yeah. he'd always like talk about God and Jesus all the time in front of the people. And like, it'd be like, I remember we used to go on holiday and it was so embarrassing because we'd meet these families. They weren't religious get drunk. And then he starts talking about God and stuff, and then we're all like, yeah. So relate to that. And, um, and he had just, the you've seen the excuse of religion. He just. So, uh, just really Angers me

Tabitha: 40:30

might even not what do you feel about religion. Now. What, where does it sit with you?

Ryan: 40:35

I've had different experiences with it? Um, I wouldn't describe myself as religious, right. Um, what, like I have friends that are religious, um, Sometimes, I just feel like there's just too much control in religion. And that's one of the things that pushed me away from it, as well as everything that happened. There's just too much. You cannot do this, you cannot do this. And I just think imagine if you stuck to all that and then, you know, and not to say it provides a way of people provides people with excuses to exploit people. Um, and yeah, it's just. I just don't enjoy it. I just don't enjoy religion. Um, yeah. Yeah.

Tabitha: 41:19

I can totally understand that. I think I've been in that place for a while too. Um, I have no really issue with, you know, the belief and the faith or anything like that. It's just, I don't like how it's used.

Ryan: 41:34

Yeah.

Tabitha: 41:37

But is there anything Ryan that you would like to impart to somebody who might be listening, who is in a situation that they think they need to get out of and they don't know how to, would you like to say? Um,

Ryan: 41:53

yeah, so I I'd say, I like to say to them, first of all if they're still empathizing with their abuser. Um, think about the, how this person has manipulated and exploited you. Um, I feel, I find people get, can get stuck in a place of not being able escape, the abuse or manipulation that the abuser has created. Um, and, and I experienced that, massively. So just think of how this person has. So taken your vulnerability of being a young person and being, um, you know, vulnerable and, and how they, have used that for their gain and, and, you know, They, they can tell you, they love you shower you with gifts and they can show you with all these different things. Well, so by the intention of theater, like behind every good art, it's an intention and whatever that intention is, defines, the act, whether it comes across as good, you know, the intention behind that is everything. So, yeah. And just, and just, just think about the life you could have, you know, And I didn't know what I was missing out on. Honestly, I did not know what I was missing out on. Um,

Tabitha: 43:15

til you went to the mall for the first

Ryan: 43:17

time? Honestly, I was so excited, but yeah, like life just changed. Like, I feel like I'm living a completely different life. I don't know if you feel about this, but it's like I've two lives and like two chapters and it's crazy. Like, I can't even remember, like physically remember half of the things that happened. That's my life's been so fulfilling since. Yeah.

Tabitha: 43:43

So good. That's good to know that. And to hold out hope for that when you're in a situation and what made, what do you think was the thing that helped you go to the police that day? Do you think it was having the support of your girlfriend and the fact that you were so close to ending it all?

Ryan: 44:06

Yeah. So there were a few things that happened that week. Um, I broke down in front of my abuser, uh, um, cause he was, he was talking about everything that had happened when I was younger and um, and I started to understand everything a bit better and especially taking into account the other people I get abused. And then, um, I broke down and he came over to hug me and, um, And I was like, I just wanted you to be, my dad - that was all I wanted from you. And there was still that hope in ther, you know, that it could have been a good dad to just change. It could change any of it, be just a good dad. And I, you know that is what, I wanted, you know, I wanted, at the time I wanted him to just one day wake up and he's a good dad you know, um, and so like, The things that happened, that week just, it was either going to be me and in my own life or he's going to be me telling some one. And once I got over that, there's like a barrier in your mind. Once I got over that barrier, it was like, um, nothing was stopping it. It was like something clicked in my brain. Like I could just say it. Yeah. Like I could just say. You know the way I could just say it. And before that I didn't even, and you know, I remember the exact point where it came into my mind. Where. I could just tell someone and it was like such a light in my mind. It was such like a, like a, Oh, I shouldn't think that it was like, Oh, I should not think that. And, um, and then, yeah, just let it just like come out and, and yeah, it is a massive buildup. Well, Yeah. So I'm not the greatest speaker. I'm really sorry. Don't say

Tabitha: 46:03

that. That's not true. No, you have a really good handle on remembering these things and portraying what was going on in your mind and why you did what

Ryan: 46:14

you did. Yeah. I mean, that's all I aim to be, I just aim to be like real and like I process things live like. I've got a little, I've got a few notes here, but you know, that's just to keep my mind on track because my brain can go into so many different thoughts and emotions because that's just the effects I am because, you know, I overanalyze things and, and yeah. And like going back to what we was talking about earlier. Yeah. Um, about just the, the analyzing of people. And so, yeah. Um, yeah, that's just something that's been programmed within me, I guess.

Tabitha: 46:53

Yeah, it's good. I think it was, it was probably a gift to you in this situation. And I mean, it goes without saying, I'm so sorry. You had to go through any of that. I know you would say, you know, it's made you who you are and it has, but there's still that element of it shouldn't have happened - ever. You should have not had to go through that because you were already amazing the way that you were. Yeah. You know, So I'm really sorry. And also I'm so glad you're here and I'm so glad that you're sharing your story and I'm so grateful you came on the podcast. I'm really, really honored that you are on. And we got to have this conversation and share it with other people. Cause I know it's going to be really helpful.

Ryan: 47:41

Yeah. Well, thank you for having me on. Yeah, it's been fun.

Tabitha: 47:44

It has been fun. All right. Well, we'll be speaking for sure. And maybe we can do a live or something with the episode, but, , Ryan, thank you so much for being here.