Episode 014: Makeup and Beauty for Self Empowerment After Trauma with Rafaella Rougier

Rafaella Rougier talks about trauma-informed professionalism in the beauty industry and beyond. They discuss how beauty can help survivors become embodied, find their own identity again and start dreaming again. There is also a passionate plea for professionals from all walks and professions to become trauma-informed in order to be of service to a large percentage of the population who could be thriving instead of just surviving. Rafaella can be found on Instagram @BeautyxSurvivors and www.beautyforsurvivors.com 

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Transcript

Rafaella: 1:01

Let's talk about

Tabitha: 1:01

what you're working on which is, I think of it as beauty for survivors currently, but you have other things going on.

Rafaella: 1:10

Yeah. Beauty for survivors is definitely. What has my full focus right now, it's, it's been there for at least five years and I've been working on it, but now it's pretty much full-time, which is exciting. That is exciting. And it's just grown organically out of my life story. My work in the beauty industry, which has been going on now for. Almost a quarter of a century. I realized that the other day, because I heard, I heard, I heard some sort of radio broadcast in the car the other day, and I heard a man talking about his career and he said a quarter of a century and I was like, Oh, 25 years. And I thought, Oh my goodness, wait, that's me too with makeup. Yup. So, yes. It's so beauty for survivors is, is sort of the, the convergence of. My life story. What my personal experience has been interwoven with the beauty industry, the fashion industry entertainment, film, TV, to a certain degree, hearing the stories of the people I've worked with as a makeup artist and realizing that we all have. Such similar experiences as survivors and that there's crossover from the abusive relationship, whatever it may have looked like for me or for someone else there's crossover between that and the beauty industry or the fashion industry. And obviously that's not to say that it's all bad or anything like that, but there's a lot of parallels. And once I started realizing that there was so much crossover and that. For some reason, makeup is, is thought of differently than even hair. When you're talking about the beauty industry, I've said this a lot to people it's it's just taken for granted that you can walk into a salon and you're going to talk about your life with your hairstylist. And it's sort of a safe, it's supposed to be a safe space and people expect that and people understand that. And people even encourage that. And the emphasis on purchasing products. Is not as much as it is in just the makeup industry, but when you are working with a makeup artist that really understands you or you connect or someone like myself, who's been in the fashion industry and you ended up working with a lot of the same models backstage before the show, of course you start talking about things and you get to know each other. And again, it's that safe space. And so what I found was this giant. Void for myself and for others, for myself, it was as a survivor. I looked everywhere online. This was going on 10 and 15 years ago, even up to just five years ago, when, when this project started in earnest for me, I was looking everywhere for any conversation online where people were were. Talking about the same things that, that I wanted to talk about and that I was going through. I knew that behind closed doors, because I, I had had the conversations in person with people, fellow survivors, about how hard it is to be in front of a mirror, how hard it is to even be consistent with self care when it's difficult to even take a shower, things like that brushing your teeth can be a challenge, those things. So I knew that I wasn't alone. But I couldn't find anywhere online where I could be encouraged by other people's stories to know that I'm not alone. Like I needed a space to revisit community. Really. I needed a community. There was none. I knew that there were others like me out there. And I started thinking about it that way. And then the other side of the coin for me was as much as I was looking for a community around all of that, I knew that in most traditional settings for makeup, which is primarily retail, that's really, I mean, unless you're blessed enough to have some kind of amazing beauty salon that that does have a makeup area, most people experience makeup through YouTube or through the retail setting. Yeah, over and over and over and over again, I was meeting survivors. Nothing has happenstance and nothing is coincidence, but invariably, if a client came into a store where I was working, it would always turn out that they were a survivor of some kind. And so we'd start talking and I would immediately be chastised by management for taking too long with the client. Meanwhile, the client was almost in tears. Because they felt so safe for the first time and so heard and so seen and so understood. And the whole door was opening right in that moment to embrace makeup as a form of self-expression after who knows how long of being suppressed and silenced. So these beautiful things were happening and this birth was happening in front of me. And it always got shut down by retail management because the retail setting is not. Designed to hold a customer in that space. I wish that it would be, but I understand. So beauty for survivors sort of crystallized for me around those two things, both my experience, and then seeing what was happening to other people who were looking for community in their own way. And as a makeup artist, I kept thinking, Oh, I'll just get a job at a makeup counter. And that way I can talk to people and I kept getting shut down and I kept having limitations put on me and. I just realized this is not going to happen unless I create what's missing in the industry. I'm going to have to just make it from scratch because the community is out there, but we have to be able to find each other because there's not currently a space that's set up to welcome all of us. So, yeah. I love that. I love

Tabitha: 7:15

that. It's, it's something you don't think about, right? We don't think about beauty and care. We hear a lot about self care in the healing community, but. No one really talks about what that actually can mean and or what it can mean for certain people, certain survivors as well, because we do a lot of us. We dissociate from our bodies. Some of us don't recognize our faces.

Rafaella: 7:46

I've been one of those people. Yeah.

Tabitha: 7:49

And times when I have been so separated from my body that I didn't, I literally felt like I was a separate, like I was

Rafaella: 7:56

separate from my body. Me too.

Tabitha: 7:59

I used to pinch myself when I was a kid at night to like, kind of, I would say my name over and over again, like just to kind of bring myself back. I don't know what I was doing technically, but there are those times in our lives, that we find ways to survive and sometimes that's dissociating.

Rafaella: 8:17

It is, and, and the dissociation has a lot of different ramifications, I would say. And. I know that I've had conversations with people. Who've come up to me and said, Oh my gosh, I never connected the dots, but. You know, something happened to me at university or, you know, they'll share an element of the abuse that they've survived and then say, I never thought about it until you started talking about it. I never realized that I stopped wearing my favorite color. After the abuse happened or I stopped wearing my favorite lipstick and I always loved that lipstick or I stopped wearing makeup completely, or I stopped. I know one person I spoke with not too long ago, loved working out, taught in different gyms, stopped going to the gym, stopped working out, stopped going anywhere, where she could be, where she, where she might be visible in some way. And. Makeup plays a huge part in that splitting that goes on because the idea of wearing any type of color, there's, there's two things about wearing color. That to me are, are really important to address when, when makeup is in the conversation in terms of survival and how, how can make it be used in terms of healing First of all color, the biggest risks with color is that when you wear it, you're going to be noticed. And the other aspect that's nerve-wracking for a survivor is that color seems frivolous color seems. Not necessary when you're truly in survival mode. And I'm speaking from my own personal experience as well. When you're truly in survival mode, the thought of wearing a fun color just seems almost hilarious. Why would I do that? That's not necessary. Is it food and shelter? No, you know, it does it, is it, is it going to keep me breathing until tomorrow? It's not as essential as water. Let's say, you know, it's not like. Well fade pretty quickly if we don't have food and water and adequate shelter and for many, many years, and thank God, that is where the emphasis has been for survivors in terms of support programs, even products, books talks the whole thing with the me too movement, which again, I'm grateful for all of that, but what I've said over and over to people is that's fantastic. But life goes on for the survivor past. The salacious details that make it to the news life goes on for those survivor past the big topics that people see, because it's almost a caricature of the abuse itself. It's so obvious. Yeah. Life goes on for us. And the, the, the healing process never ends for a survivor. It's a lifelong journey. And there's a lot of hope in that. There's a lot of trepidation in that and that's where. I see the things that are deemed non-essential music, art, color, beauty. Those are the things that have saved my life past. Like I was talking about the absolute essential things, has the essentials of food and water and a safe place to go to sleep at night. It's, it's truly beauty that saved my life because the days when I was struggling with. Being suicidal. It was seeing a flower or seen something in nature. And it was what, what always struck me. And this might seem a little simplistic to others, but for me it was everything I noticed the outrageous colors of things. Look at nature. There's just, I remember I photographed a flower when I was in Italy. I didn't use a flash. I didn't use a filter and the image because of the sun hitting the flower, it looked neon. Yeah. And I just remember staring at that for the longest time and thinking, look at the color. Why does that even exist? What is the purpose of this color? If not, to evoke an emotion and bring in abundance to an otherwise very limited way of living, if that makes sense. Yeah. So color color works in, in so many different ways. And of course there's a scientific angle, which I'm, I'm doing a lot around that right now. And I'm going to be publishing some work around this as well. And I'm also working on some makeup tutorials around color as, as a healing element from scientific point of view because of the frequencies that colors have. So there is all of that, but. You, you don't have to have a degree in science to know that that color can, can change everything true. So it's just, it's a, it's a tremendous ally in the form of makeup because, and I, I guess why I get so excited about makeup in particular is yes, I'm an artist and I love doing makeup as a makeup artist, but I love makeup because. Let's say you don't really have your own home. Let's say you are still living in a more transitory way. Maybe you haven't fully transitioned or grown into having your own place and having all of your own things. So you can't pick out a can of paint and redecorate your whole house. You can't get into the full expression of truly designing your own aesthetic all around you. 360 degrees. What you can do is go to the drug store and pick out a lipstick or nail Polish. Like I was, I was just sharing with you the other day about I've been getting so upset because I can't find a specific color of blue that just from the inside, I couldn't find it in any clothing. So I went and I found it in a nail Polish color, and it just made me so happy and I don't even have to be wearing it just to see it in the little bottle on my nightstand. Is a constant reminder to me that, Hey, that's my favorite color. And I, I had the courage to go find it and it's there and I'm going to be making things with it and finding ways to incorporate that color back into my life. So the reason that I'm so passionate about makeup in particular as a tool for healing is because of the overall accessibility of it as a tool. Now granted there's, I'm not discounting the fact that there is also a lot of inaccessibility, which is something I want to address. As beauty for survivors grows by getting more makeup brands involved in actually donating products to domestic shelters to survivors who are in need and are transitioning out of. Shelters into getting jobs again and all of those different things. So there's a lot of different aspects of this, but in general, the accessibility of makeup is what makes me so excited. And it's also very non-committal. You can wash it off. Yeah. So you can experience the benefits of that time. You're taking for yourself, playing with the colors and you, you don't have to put it on for any other purpose than just playing with the colors. And then you can take it off. So it's very safe in that aspect as well. I think it allows for a lot of privacy and a lot of personal exploration and you don't have to share it with anybody unless you want to. Yeah.

Tabitha: 16:17

I love that. I think sometimes we have this funny view of the beauty industry in general, right? It's it's either, Oh, I'm doing a way with that. You know, aesthetics are not important. That kind of thing just in general. And then sometimes we, we also look at the beauty industry and think, well, that's, that's for the rich and famous and you know, the people that are always in front of people, like we just have these different viewpoints of it and, and it takes on so many different connotations, but it literally is. I mean, just like I slapped on some red lipstick as I was logging into zoom,

Rafaella: 16:56

I,

Tabitha: 16:57

it does. It just makes you feel. It does something to you, you know, not, not just the color, but it's also like, you know, it just makes you feel put together. And so much of the time we are just walking around as survivors, just feeling like we're faking it till we make it. And like, well, I'm just going to hold myself together. But there is that aspect of when you kind of maybe make it a little bit of a ritual or something special, it's like, okay, this is. No, this is me like, this is, this is part of me. This is part of my expression. This is part of who I am, whether I like to wear, you know, blue lipstick or red lipstick or, you know, orange eye shadow or whatever it is. It's just a way to really connect with yourself. And I think in general, the whole thing needs to shift the viewpoint of it. Like, no, we don't need makeup to be "of value." But makeup is an expression of ourselves and we're valuable and our expression of ourselves is

Rafaella: 18:01

valuable. Absolutely. Yeah. And I also love to use the analogy of scents like perfumes and music. I think we can all relate to how. You can smell a perfume or, or a familiar scent, and it immediately takes you to a place and a memory. And the same with music, you can hear a song that you only listened to in high school or something like that. So our senses have a way of taking us somewhere. And to me, color has a way of, of actually. Bringing us to the present moment. Whereas these other sense senses of ours can sometimes take us forwards in time. And I feel that color brings, brings you into the present moment, which is, I think it can be so challenging for survivors because the whole element of survival is to not be present. So there is such profound healing in what you just described. You took a moment. You put on some red lipstick and it's the color, but it's more than the color you stopped for that moment in time. And you were fully present with yourself and your body and you were paying attention to your body and celebrating, you know, I even did a

Tabitha: 19:25

little bit Lucille ball and I'm just kidding. I's sloppy.

Rafaella: 19:29

And I you're absolutely right when you. Talk about the fact that there's so many things that are sort of piled on top in terms of the perception or how makeup is viewed, or it's only for these people or tmask, and you're not authentic if you wear it. I mean, there's all different viewpoints, but I always say to that, objection, let's say my response to that is have you ever worked with a kindergarten class? Have you ever been around a kindergartner? Yeah. What child is not absolutely enthusiastic about a box of crayons. I've worked with kids for many, many years and. When they get past the age of six, it can get a little iffy because that's when personal passion start to emerge. Some kids may not want to sit down at a table and color, but prior to the age of six, if you put a blank piece of paper and some crayons in front of a child or some markers or some colored Play-Doh, anything with color and with creativity in the mix. Everyone's face lights up and there's, there's no filter. There's no thought of a, well, I shouldn't use that color because it has this connotation. Or if I draw with a red crayon, I'm being, you know, really bold and forward. There's no, there there's no narrative attached to the colors. They're just colors. And it brings so much joy to play with them. And that's part of the work that I'm I'm doing and will continue to do is I want to restore that to survivors restore the play element and restore the right that we have is as human beings. It's a sovereign, right? As far as I'm concerned to play with color or, and benefit from color, it doesn't belong to an industry. It doesn't belong to a certain tier of society. It's not only for the rich and famous or this, that, or the other person it's it's color and it's a tool. So I always say you're not there for the makeup. The makeup is there for you. You, my, my, my intention is to teach people. The language let's say of makeup, the tools, just like you learn the alphabet and grammar for a language, then you decide what you want to say in that language. It's totally up to you. It's totally a personal expression. And that's what I want to empower. Other survivors to do is let me teach you the vocabulary. Let me teach you how these things work together in a grammatical sense using, you know, the language analogy. Yeah, let me, let me teach you how this works and then you, you say whatever it is that you want to say, we want to have a totally blank face and a bright lip. Awesome. As long as what you are saying about yourself is authentic, that's all that matters. If you don't want to wear anything fantastic. If you want to play with it and take it off. And no one has any idea that you have a whole drawer full of makeup at your house that you play with. It's not for other people it's for you. Yeah. So yeah, I'm very in Case couldn't pass on it. Very passionate about this. Yes, because it always, it always has made me very angry when. I would hear people saying things, Oh, well, that person can't wear that because of this or this person can't wear this. There's all of these narratives. And specifically around the, the idea of anyone who identifies as male or masculine in some way that somehow makeup can't be an expression. Yeah. Well, I take total issue with that because that's so limited in terms of a historical, even a historical perspective, right? All you have to do is some research to see how much makeup historically was always a part of male expression. It's not just this tiny little box that it's been created to be in. Let's say the 18th, 19th, 20th, like the most recent centuries that, that most people are drawing from. So I'm, I'm really looking to completely shatter all of those preconceived notions and give the crayon box back to people. Yes, yes. Yeah.

Tabitha: 23:55

It's also play and. It's so important, especially as people who are survivors, you know, you were mentioning people who end up in the news and like what the aftermath of the hype goes away. And I think about to the people sometimes I think, and I'm not downplaying any one's experience. Sometimes I think the people who don't come forward are the people who have been in trauma the longest.

Rafaella: 24:18

Yeah,

Tabitha: 24:21

it does take people. Who've been traumatized since early childhood. A lot more someone like that probably isn't going to come forward, you know, and it's probably going to take them a little bit longer to start to connect with themselves.

Rafaella: 24:38

Absolutely.

Tabitha: 24:41

Yeah, it would just, I think about that things that end up in the news and all of that stuff that's, it's just the tip of the iceberg,

Rafaella: 24:49

you know, and, and like I said, it's. It's a double-edged sword because it's awesome that the conversation can be had in a more open way on social media, for example, because I'll just illustrate the fact that five, five years ago, I was already working on beauty first survivors. Right. And I had a website and published my ebook about the parallels between beauty and an abusive. Relationships, the beauty industry, I should say beauty industry and abusive relationships. And I was moving forward with it and got so much backlash and so much heat and some, even some threats. And it was, it's an excellent illustration of the fact that it wasn't time yet. And I, I wanted to make sure that I had my strategy. Nailed down because at the time I was just kind of putting stuff out and I hadn't really thought about it a lot. I was like, Oh, I just want to talk about this. So I'm going to blog about it, make some videos about it. And I realized very quickly that the, the resistance that is so entrenched. In the collective consciousness is how I will put it, the resistance to bringing these things to the light and actually acknowledging what people's experiences have been, which is a hot topic right now in a lot of different areas, acknowledging that many, many, many, many, many people have suffered enormously. Great violence. Great disadvantage, great abuse. Typically people don't want to hear about that. Like it doesn't, it doesn't make anyone feel great. So most people, unless they're really seeking to understand and grow, most people are not going to be interested in. So five years ago there was still this, this very deeply entrenched element of like, Oh, we don't want to hear about that. And don't bring that up because you'll be rocking. And then, then. There was this sort of kindling and the match to the, you know, that, that just ignited everything with hashtag me too. And I'm very grateful for that because it has helped to forge, let's say a pathway through this resistance, but your apps, right? Because what actually comes to the surface, what emerges in social media? Is barely the tip of the iceberg. And usually what makes it into the biggest headlines are the most, I would say Hollywood worthy headlines that grab people in another way, because it's grabbing on that shock value. And so yes, you're, you're absolutely right because no one in their right mind as a survivor, especially someone who has been abused since early childhood. No one wants that kind of attention or spotlight put on their experience. I think what's, what's deeply desired is and an awareness in society and a level of. I would, I would say kindness in the sense that services are designed with survivors in mind. We've talked about this before, but learning how to take care of your finances after it's been decimated by an abuser, how do you invest? How do you become a homeowner? How do you do anything after your entire life has been destroyed? What, what makeup brands are out there right now who are specifically cultivating a conversation around, Hey, we know it's tough to stand in front of the mirror. We're here to help you. We're here to serve. We're not trying to push a product on you and tell you that you have to live up to a certain image. We're here to help you reclaim your narrative. And strip it of all of the trash that was dumped on you by an abuser or maybe many abusers were here for you. That I think is what is, is I I'm, I'm speaking for myself. So I'm certainly not trying to speak for everyone, but. I don't think that any survivor wakes up on any given day and thinks, Oh, I want to be the center of attention. It's usually quite the opposite. I've experienced this as well. And again, it's, it's just lack of it's lack of awareness. It's lack of knowledge. And part of, part of my role with BD for survivors is. Serving survivors, but also serving allies would in terms of education. So a lot of the lack of awareness is not necessarily anybody's fault. It's just lack of access to information, lack, lack of the existence of this kind of a dialogue out in the open so that people who want to help and support can understand. But yeah, I, I it's, there's so much that. I see super imposed on survivors because people don't know any better. And one of the biggest things I've seen is whether people want to say it or not. There's an attitude of kind of your damaged goods, like, Oh, you know, Oh my God, I'm so sorry. And I'm not knocking any of it, but it's like people. The only education around survivors in a public arena has been around the severity of their homeless. Severely injured were beaten, have no money. Yeah. Lost their family, all kinds of things. And those are all legitimate elements of a survivor's story. But my point is that. It's not helping me to have somebody kind of Pat me on the head and go, Oh, they're there, you know, and sort of keep me in that victim box because they don't know how else to see me. So I've had, I've had a lot, well, I shouldn't say a lot. I've had well-meaning individuals say to me, well, why aren't you, why isn't, why aren't you making this a nonprofit? Why aren't you just turning? Why isn't this a charity? And I said, because. Because the, the fibers deserve more than charity. They do. I do. Everyone does. And I'm not knocking charity, but do you know the healing that comes. From having rebuilt your finances and having money in your pocket. And you think I am going to go out today and I'm going to go to a salon or I'm going to go to the grocery store or you alter. And I, me Rafaela who used to have no choice who used to have no authority who used to have no sovereignty. Who had nothing to her name. I get to go pick what's right for me. And I get to put my own money down for that. Like I have chills right now. The empowerment aspect of this is what people are missing out on survivors. Survivors are amazing because they've survived. But the whole rest of the arc of everyone's story is pastor that. And I'm talking about I'm here for survivors to help on the other side of the arc. Where even if you are empowered, you're, there's an aspect of survival that impacts your decision-making. There needs to be pieces in the middle to help you get from absolute being destitute. Let's say there needs to be something in the middle ground that's after you get out of a shelter after you have been able to get yourself food. And have, you know, gotten a different job, all of these different things. Like I said, that the most, the most key elements there needs to be things after that, that are crafted by and for survivors because our lives continue, our needs continue to achieve. And I think that right now, the assumption is, well, just go to therapy, go to therapy, and I'm not knocking therapy, but this is this. This is. Part of the, one of the core values of beauty for survivors is that abuse is an embodied experience.

Tabitha: 33:40

It affects everything. Your, your, your mind is altered. You come out altered, your body is affected. A lot of us are in pain or sick. Some of us land in the hospital and are bedridden for years that if I know I

Rafaella: 33:55

was yep.

Tabitha: 33:57

Life back together from that place feels

Rafaella: 34:00

impossible. It does. And people have to take into consideration that your, your brain and your nervous system learned the abuse through embodied experiences. Something in the 3d realm came crashing into your world and brought everything to a screeching halt. It was a 3d experience. And so I'm, I'm grateful. Again, I I'm always seeking to emphasize as much as possible that I am not ungrateful. I'm not knocking any of the other things that exist, that, that I've already touched on therapy, shelters. All of those are needed. There's a missing component. I'm personally, very passionate about makeup. There's lots of possibilities of there's lots of other things. And I hope that part of the effect of beauty for survivors is that people start to realize, wait a second, healing is not just going in and talking about what happened to me or, or. Thinking thinking, thinking, thinking, thinking there is a lot of work that needs to be done in your mind, but there is a whole missing element where your body physically needs new 3d information to reprogram itself. And part of the power I'm speaking from how powerful makeup and skincare and self care has been for me. Yeah. It never ceases to be powerful and healing for me when I actually say no, I'm not going to ignore the fact that I'm in a body today, I'm going to take 30 minutes and I'm going to put on a mask or use a serum and let it, you know, take 30 minutes to acknowledge that I'm in a body. And that that's important. And I don't have to be. Only in my brain or out there somewhere to another stratosphere. It brings me back into the present moment and it's giving me new physical, 3d information. Our brains are always, always taking in information and looking for patterns and looking for, looking for dots to connect

Tabitha: 36:22

to a whole new meaning. Yeah, it's not just about, I hear some people poo poo, the whole idea of self care being aesthetic, or, but it needs to be at times it needs to be, we need to know that we're taking care of ourselves. Like I have the hardest time giving my, I need to give myself a pedicure all like

Rafaella: 36:39

I have the most calories.

Tabitha: 36:43

Okay. Somewhere I learned, I don't know how, but like my feet just aren't important. Right. They're in my shoes most of the time. Well, not most of the time, but not a summer, but I don't know. It's, it's, it's like one of those things you gotta work through, but we have to learn to care for ourselves in that way, because it, it really does translate into all the other areas of our, our money mindsets, our physical, like health and, and pain levels and all of that. And. Yeah, relationships the way we think about everything.

Rafaella: 37:16

Yeah. It really helps to, like I said, yeah, just give your brain something new to work with, because if you were, let's say abused as a child in some way, all the messages you received as a little kid where you're worthless, your body is, is worthless. You don't deserve care. You don't deserve tenderness. You don't deserve time. Yeah. And how powerful is it to be able to rewrite that script as an adult and choose to take the time and to say to your body, you matter, and to say to your body, you are worthy of tenderness. You are worthy of care, you are worthy of kindness. You're worthy of color. Yeah. All of these things. So it is extremely powerful because. And this is, this is going too far off topic for today, probably, but the neuro-plasticity like the, the, the, we were just talking about this the other day, the body and the mind are wired to regenerate and to heal your body wants to be there for you. Your mind wants to be there for you on all four cylinders. And all it takes is, is giving yourself the time and choosing to. Give yourself the support that's necessary and I'm not at all. And I'm not insinuating that that is easy. I'm living proof that it is not, but it is absolutely worth it. So I love

Tabitha: 38:49

that. Yeah, it is. I was thinking too, as you were talking about how, when. Where kids, especially coming from families where it was different things. Some of us weren't allowed to wear makeup at all. Like that was the way my mother grew up. She wasn't allowed to wear makeup and she went way, way overboard. Most of my life was heavy, heavy makeup, heavy on the hair, just big care. And It was like living with a televangelist away or something, but And then. So makeup in my home, it was almost expected, but it was also like a very prescribed way. And so I've had to little by little kind of take. I remember I plucked my eyebrows, so like I thought my eyes were too close together. Cause I was always being told my eyes were too close together. So I thought like I pluck my eyebrows, like all the way back here thinking it was going to like widen the space. And I look back at pictures, I'm like, That looks terrible. What was I doing? But that was in my head, you know, and we don't have, we feel like we just don't have ownership of our, our bodies, whether we were wearing makeup or not wearing makeup makeup for me now, as a way to kind of be like, Oh, I'm going to work. I'm going to pop on some red lipstick. I'm going to be, I'm not going to do it the way that it was prescribed for me, you know? And also I'm going to like, See myself for myself.

Rafaella: 40:18

No, absolutely. That's it's, it's very much touching on again, the heart and soul of what beauty for survivors is because there are also there's different dimensions to survival. There's not just physical survival. There's. Spiritual and mental survival there's coming out of sort of cult, you know, environments where, again, everything about who you are identity is, is challenged from, from one into the other. So,

Tabitha: 41:01

and a lot of it has to do with sexuality too. You know, makeup is associated with your

Rafaella: 41:07

sexuality. Yeah. Yeah. And that's, that's actually what I was, what I was just about to say is that for me, identity, all of these things are so intertwined. And again, since beauty for survivors is a reflection of my own personal journey, as well as the, the, the gaps that I'm seeing in the industry everywhere. I do see that the, the LGBTQ plus the queer community of which I'm a part. The queer community is severely underserved as well from, from the aspect of beauty and how to express yourself authentically. And unfortunately there's a lot, let's say if you grew up like in any similar way to how I grew up, where is just religion itself is, is a God and everything about who you are, is seen as. A crime basically. It's, it's just, I mean, there's all of these layers,

Tabitha: 42:06

it's shameful, it's a crime,

Rafaella: 42:08

right. Your core identity, but then add onto that, that you want to play with makeup or express yourself in some way. And that's also a huge, no fly zone. And so that's also a really big element of beauty for survivors is again, just restoring the right. To individuals to reclaim the narrative of their identity for themselves and to feel freedom in expressing that. And it does, it is a journey. It's not something that happens overnight. There's a lot of mindset work and the mindset work and working on my belief system and reclaiming my own personal story and giving myself permission to then express it through how I'm choosing to take care of myself. And I know there's a lot of really popular. Sort of politically correct things that get tossed around a lot on social media. And I'm not, again, I'm not knocking that because we live in an era. That's just incredible in terms of the overall openness to talk about things, but there's not a lot of services, if any, for For the queer community. Yeah. For the trans community. Yeah. How, how do you, how do you identify and how do you want to show up and how can I as a makeup artist or makeup brand, as a makeup artist serve you by teaching you how to use all of these different products to say what you want to say. I don't see that really happening anywhere. And that's. That's a huge part of what I want to do with beauty for survivors is really create an inclusive, safe arena online, because I know for a lot of people it's safer to be online than in-person sometimes, but to create a safe environment where people can find the community that I was looking for. For so many years, because I know, I just know that I'm not alone in this. Absolutely not alone because I've had the conversations. It's just time to actually create the space for everyone to come together online and feel validated and feel honored and encouraged in their personal journey.

Tabitha: 44:38

Yeah. So true. For some reason when you were talking about that, it made me think of Just the idea that makeup a lot of times is seen as something that we do to like attract right to attract either the opposite sex to us or different love interests to us. I feel like with the sexuality thing it doesn't have to be that way either. It can just be for you.

Rafaella: 45:08

Absolutely. And I, I, I do know that depending on. How much someone was, or was not living in alignment with their true self. Let's say there is a certain season of detox that typically you can shed that old skin and, and know that you're showing up as authentically yourself. And I can see

Tabitha: 45:32

that, like that makes sense. It's just, I can see how also that shift over is going to feel like, well, I'm just not going to do this anymore.

Rafaella: 45:42

Definitely. Again, there's, there's an absence in, in the industry overall and in social media, there's just an add an absence of balance. That's really all that it is. There's an absence of balance when it comes to knowing that other things are there for you. And you're not there to serve these other things, whether it's a perception of beauty or someone's perception of, you know religion when you were talking about the fact that there's these ideas about makeup, whether people like it or not, a lot of them come from severe MIS misinterpretations of the Bible with the verses about. You know, there's cherry pick verses and extrapolate them and distort them to mean something that has nothing to do with the original intent. I know this is slightly off topic, but no, not really, but it's, it's also, it is part of my it's part of my personal backstory, because I grew up in that environment. I think people can relate to that. It was like so bad if you were. You know, if you were fetching in any way, shape or form, but somehow you were supposed to be super fetching for a man. You were supposed to walk this line of, well, I'm not attractive, but I'm supposed to be attractive for him down. And I'm supposed to be, you know a service station basically for anybody to service themselves. But God forbid that there'd be any level of attractiveness. That would have anything to do with me having autonomy and actually choosing to enhance my appearance in any way, shape or form. And the irony about that is it runs totally contrary to who God describes himself to be, which is attractive. There are so many verses about, about God himself. Wooing us and being attractive and being irresistible. And it's it's again, look at nature. Why the heck are flowers that just make everyone Swoon because they're so stunning, like beauty is, is to me a reflection of who God is. And so to completely shut up beauty and say, well, you can't wear this color. You can't wear that color. You can't do this. You can't do that. At the end of the day. For me, you're not limiting me. You're, you're limiting the fullest expression of. Of God, you're limiting the fullest expression of love that there can be by saying what you can't do this, and you can't do that. And you can't, there can't be an attention put on you. It changed my life. When I realized that God's full attention is on me and there's nothing wrong with having his full attention. And if I have, or her full attention there's nothing wrong with attention. And I, I grew up thinking that any attention whatsoever meant that I was a horrible, horrible child. I was, I was told as much. Yeah. So absolutely. There's all of these religious and pop culture narratives that people just love to run into the ground. You see it in movies, you see it in social media. No, I just want to say to everybody, you know what? Take five down is just color. It's just color. And it's very powerful, but it's, it's very dangerous to start using it as a way to be harmful towards someone else. Just because you grew up with a different cultural. Perspectives. Yeah,

Tabitha: 49:30

I see it everywhere. I mean, there are times when, you know, I'm around older generations or different people and I, I, over the last 10 years or so, I've stopped caring. I've stopped caring if I'm wearing too little, if I'm wearing too much, like I just don't care. What is to anything. You know, and it's so funny how people are. They're like, Oh, well you look very comfortable. Like they try to, it's like, I am, I feel like I'm wearing what I'm comfortable with. Like, I don't

Rafaella: 50:06

care. I will say. And I've said this, you'll hear me say quite a bit. There is an element of. Tunnel vision, primarily in the United States where there's elements of American culture that are really only exist in the United States. And it's not so much like that. In other areas. I remember, I mean, again, so this, this is, this influences me in a profound way. When I, in my personal approach to makeup, because I grew up overseas, I grew up in Europe and Europe is home to me. France is where I discovered my love for the fashion industry. And Biddy itself is. Not turned into a commodity so much in France and in Europe, but I can speak primarily about France because that's where I have the most experience. Beauty is not turned into the thing that it is in the United States, where it's both the unattainable image and the, the object that's used to clobber you over the head. And that's what I talk a lot about in my book. Told me to read by the way So there, there are a lot of things that are unique to the history of the United States, sort of the, the, the prudishness and the antibody narrative and the very severe religious undercurrent, or even cultish undercurrents. Well,

Tabitha: 51:41

it's our fault. If a man is lusting after us, right? I mean, that's what I was.

Rafaella: 51:47

That's how I was raised. Well, my response to that has always been well, if that's the case, then every single doctor. Yeah, clearly they don't, which means, Oh, wow. You mean then they actually do have self control and they are able to put themselves in a different place when they're dealing with female or female identifying or any, any identifying patient. I've had men from

Tabitha: 52:09

the time I was 12 years old, like shamed me for wearing like Kula shorts or, I mean, they were long and like, how dare you show your legs? I'm a leg man. Oh my God.

Rafaella: 52:21

Okay. Yes, I was sorry. Well, yeah, and I mean, there's, there's, there's, there's things that are unique to American culture and that's not at all to say that judgment is not passed in ways, in different ways around the world. Italy still has tremendous issues because it wants women to be barefoot in the kitchen. And it was only recently it's only been. Recently that women have been have started to be recognized as authors in Italy. It's been primarily men extolled as authors in Italy. And I read something. Yeah. Recently that it's only been within the past year or so that a female author has broken records and sort of risen up to the level that that men are, are held on this pedestal. So. It's not at all to say that the U S is the only area where these types of issues exist. What I will say though, because this is what always kind of kills me off the edge from, from getting really upset, because it is really frustrating. It is, it is difficult when you have people coming at you with these, you know, with this mission. It seems to just, yeah. Tell you what you can and can't do, or how you can and kittens to express yourself. So for me, it's very centering and very grounded and very restorative to always remind myself that again. And this, this is my personal view based on my experience in my personal journey. I truly believe that what's actually going on in all of these different situations as that people are ultimately afraid of expressions of. Beauty and love and divinity. People are afraid of what they don't know and understand. And when, when the love of God is fully expressed, It brings life to people. It also brings fear to other people who don't have any interest in living an abundant life. And I truly believe that there's an element of beauty that because it is an aspect of, of the heart of God. There's an aspect of it that is not controllable. And therefore it's seen as dangerous. So guess what? People are gonna try to control it. People are going to try to subjugate others either with it or without it. And that's why it's so important to me to restore the sovereignty, to individuals that get your God given right, to be an expression of the beauty of God. We are reflection of, of him and her whatever pronoun someone wants to use. W we are, we're walking reflections of the heart of God. And, and again, when I look at nature, it's just undeniable. It's excessive the beauty around in the world, the different animals, the stars, the trees, the flowers, I mean, it's, it's just, it is excessive. And then intelligence in a heart behind that kind of excessive beauty tells me a lot about who I am. Who I am and who I can become. And that beauty again, beauty isn't is my birthright. No, it does, you know, I get, I get people who say, Oh, well, if you know what, if I'm running to makeup, that's totally fine. What you're passionate about, find what lights you up. Find expression of beauty that, that gives you oxygen. Maybe it's a particular instrument that you love to hear someone playing or that you want to learn to play, or it's a particular song or a band or a group. Or maybe it's an element of creativity that you have barely begun to discover, but you really like it then go for it. Anyone's anyone's exploration of creativity is absolutely destined to be opposed at some point by someone. It just is because again, the art, the creativity that's like to me, the heartbeat of God and it's wild. And ultimately cannot be put into a box. And that scares people who basically depend on everything being put into a box. So if you happen to show up on someone's radar, who has their whole life arranged around, nothing must disturb me and nothing. Nothing must bother me. And nothing has caused me to rethink anything. Guess what? You're going to get an earful from that person. They're going to tell you exactly what. They think is wrong with you because you are challenging their worldview and it literally can be something as simple as culottes shorts or color hair.

Tabitha: 57:10

Yeah. Yeah. And it was, I mean, when you're 12 and already living with people that believe that way anyway, it's like, okay, but the older you get and the more I think you heal the less you care. And like, well, that's not a me problem. That's a you problem. And

Rafaella: 57:31

I'm not responsible for your

Tabitha: 57:32

thoughts or what you do

Rafaella: 57:34

with those. I really want to emphasize, because I know that this is something that I'm sure will be going through people's minds when people hear this conversation or have conversations with others, I want to emphasize. And, and you had already touched on this, that. It's not just about maybe someone who's really never worn makeup and suddenly deciding that I want to wear makeup. It's also for people who feel that they can't leave the house without wearing six inches of makeup. And I, I worked with this celebrity who you, I never, I never would have. Imagined that the celebrities struggled with something along those lines. But this person shared with me, like they were crying after I finished this makeup for a job that they had to do. And so I had to like fix the makeup because they were crying. But because they shared with me that they always felt that they had to wear. Basically a mask, you know, the mask that makeup can be because makeup can be something that's used in a negative way. That's the whole point of this whole conversation is that it becomes, it becomes weaponized and it never should be. I wasn't allowed to leave

Tabitha: 59:05

the house without wearing

Rafaella: 59:05

makeup. Right. So there's, so there's the, the, the other side of the, of the equation or the coin. However you want to put it is. I have worked with many, many, many clients, this celebrity I'm thinking of and, and, and others all over the world where they thought that they had to forever wear six inches of makeup. And here's the thing. If wearing six inches of makeup, Makes your day, it makes you feel the most expansive, then do it. I see people bash she new tubers who do like the full beat. And I'm like, Ty, if that makes you happy either go for it. My issue is when I have worked with clients who are clearly not feeling seen and not feeling empowered and feeling small and who they are, because they think that they're somehow not Authorized to not wear the six inches of makeup and we're in six inches of makeup for them is not authentic. And the work in that situation is to again, learn. The techniques learn the language of makeup in a way that you are able to then say what you want to say. And there is a mindset element of setting yourself free from the societal expectations, because like you said, typically, someone who has that idea about themselves was raised in some way to think that Oh yeah, because when you leave the house,

Tabitha: 1:00:40

you're representing the family and you have to look perfect. And

Rafaella: 1:00:45

there's a flaw. There's a whole mindset work that goes on with giving yourself permission. You let, truly let yourself be seen and lets your skin be seen, which is very vulnerable. It's incredibly vulnerable. I know this is just a personal confession. Yeah. I've I have posted makeup free photos of myself on rare occasion. I walk around half the time with no makeup on. I, I don't particularly they have, how do I say this? I don't like taking pictures of myself without makeup and posting them. Not because I'm ashamed of how I look because I'm not it's because for me it is so intimate. It's it's I just think I'm, you know, I, I. I'm an introvert as well, which is hilarious given the line of work that I'm in and the things that I care about. But there, there are elements of privacy for me that I just think know this isn't about my, my self-esteem and self-worth, I don't really care to post a photo of. Yeah, of, of a moment for myself in my own home or something that doesn't have to be shared with 5,000 people. Now I get to go down to the grocery store with no makeup on. Sure. Because it's just a moment in time I'm going there and coming back, but I'm not, you know, Taking the photograph and putting it up for the masses to see for all of time. And I'm sure that somebody would want to argue with me over that. And again, I have, if anyone, you know, looks through files of my photographs, there's plenty that I don't have a stitch of makeup on. I'm just saying that right. Well, what I'm saying though, is that I resonate deeply. I truly relate to both sides of the story, which is, I feel like. Someone who's, you know, someone who says, well, I don't even know if I can wear makeup. I should. I relate to that because of how I grew up. But I also relate to the other side, which is, well, I should wear something because it is, I relate to the deep visceral vulnerability of not having anything on your face at all. Because typically up into a certain point, social media has changed a lot, but typically that was an element of our loss of life. Life, that few people. We're able to see, unless it's somebody who's very close to you in your home. Yeah. So I, I get it. Like, I really do understand the full spectrum of all the different. Ways that there can be resistance around makeup resistance around self care, just resistance around being fully present in your body and being seen even to yourself like baby steps. The first step is giving yourself permission to be seen to yourself, to see yourself in the mirror. And that takes some work, but it's absolutely worthwhile. Yeah, clearly I could talk. All day, all day. It's very dangerous to get me started on any related to beauty for survivors. And you're passionate about this is why I got in big trouble at the makeup counters. Now that I was talking about beauty for survivors as such, but, you know, I get into a conversation with a client about something along these lines, and I got in big trouble with management, but those were always the clients who came back. And came back and came back and came back because they know that I care about them first. And what, how, how can I help you? Not, what can I tell you,

Tabitha: 1:04:29

you know, doing someone's hair or doing their makeup is such an intimate setting too. It just is. And you know, and by I was, I was, I played around with that stuff a little bit. I told you I went to cosmetology school and I was because I was always doing that stuff for my friends. And they were like, you should go. And I'm like,

Rafaella: 1:04:48

okay, But even

Tabitha: 1:04:52

when I've had, you know, work done on me or whatever it is, it's like your, the person's touching you. They're like right up on it. Sometimes their boobs are right in your face. Cause they're like reaching. It's just like, we're all of a sudden we're very close and like the walls are down and it's. It's true. I mean, how many people can relate to telling their hairdresser or something or their makeup artists, something and or everything and vice versa. Like they, they tell you

Rafaella: 1:05:25

like it's a less, how do what's the right word for this? I don't want to say it's less intimidating because it intimidating is not the word I'm going for. It's it's, it's a more approachable, well, way to let you go guard down with someone because the focus, the focus is and is not on you. It's just, it's not the same as walking into a therapist office and literally sitting in the hot seat. And, and having to talk about things that are horrific right then and there that's a whole nother ball game it's needed. I'm not knocking it, but my point is that there's a lot of healing that can happen subconsciously. Yeah. When you just walk into a salon or book an appointment with a makeup artist, or even one of the things I'm doing is setting up a way for people to work with me, virtually talking about, we're talking about this with you before, about going through your makeup drawer with me and talking about things that you don't know how to use, and just even things like that. It's because for the brain, when the focus is on something else, the, the. Reality is that it gives other areas of your brain, a chance to breathe and process. This is why play is so important. That a lot of times, even for myself, when I'm trying to figure something out and I reach an impasse, I. Voluntarily make a choice to do something that's fun. I'll watch a Tom and Jerry video. I'll do something silly with my cat. You know, I find something that is just has no other value aside from the fact that it's play Mahjong. I'll play a round with Majong on my phone. That's even saying it correctly. And invariably. Something will bubble up to the surface because our brains are magnificent. They never stop working on our behalf and to divert your attention from crisis mode long enough to help bring cortisol levels back down, get you out of your survival brain and into the present and into your body and other hormones that are more positive can start going through your body. These are all messages to your body, that your brain is both sending and receiving, and it facilitates healing in a way unlike any other. It just does. So, so yeah, I, and I, I say to people. All the time I am one person. I have been gifted in a very particular way. My area of genius and expertise is art color, makeup design, but clearly it's not a one size fit. All. I'm not a fits all. I'm not insinuating that makeup is. The new religion and everyone must take up the torch or follow me or anything like that. That's not what I'm setting this up to be. And that's not the message. The message is, Hey, guess what? This is what we talked about before. There's a whole other life to be lived beyond survival. How can we. Inform the conversation to be trauma informed, but not trauma fixated, trauma informed, around things that we take for granted to assist our bodies and minds in the healing process. So for me, it's makeup for somebody else. Like I said, it could be financial services where. I'm telling you if I knew that there were a financial advisor who's trauma informed for domestic abuse survivors, I would be first in line to make that phone call and say, can I come talk to you? Because I know ahead of time that I'm not going to have to sit there and feel embarrassed or ashamed or have to take 30 minutes explaining, well, I lost my home. I lost all of my belongings. I was homeless. Any number of things that you typically have to start. Yeah, not there. And it's, it's traumatizing.

Tabitha: 1:09:36

They're not looking at you. Like what have you been doing? And similarly with

Rafaella: 1:09:44

these things,

Tabitha: 1:09:45

with salon work, how many let's go in and we've got patches like a bald patch or, you know, I've got these silver streaks that started showing up. It's like, Stress. Right. And we were talking about these things and it's like, well, I have this thing with my skin going on because I've been stressed out and it, you know, we start talking about these things and when we know someone's going to be understand it, and it's just the same thing. Like, it just kind of comes up naturally. But yes, the trauma informed financial advisor, I mean, Yeah, it's scary. It's scary thinking about having someone look at this and be like, you're almost 40. What have you been doing?

Rafaella: 1:10:28

I don't remember. Not, not really, not too long ago. I've come a long way. I've come a long way regardless, but I still remember the feeling of, I just remember having moments where I would, I would just sit down and think I have absolutely. No idea how to be a human or how to, I don't know how, like, how do I, how much, like, what do I do? How does, how is this supposed to work? Because abuse has such an overwhelming effect on everything in your mind and body that it's like, you get dropped from a trap door. You come crashing down to earth. When you start to wake up to the healing process, it's overwhelming the simplest things. And still for me, sometimes buying groceries for me sometimes can be one of the most overwhelming things because I get completely frozen in front of having to make all of these different decisions. It's not all the time mine delivered

Tabitha: 1:11:30

because it stresses me out. Yeah. I have the same cart. Every time they get delivered, I pay extra for the service, but it saves me that

Rafaella: 1:11:37

stress. Right. And so I guess, W w what I would really love to say to anyone who has taken the time to share in this conversation, whether it's here in this podcast or at a later date, or in another context, what I would say to anyone who was listening is I don't care. What line of work you are in. I do not care what your role is in this life. You, someone in your life is a survivor. Survivors are everywhere. They may not announce themselves. We do like to be under the radar. We like to look normal. We are normal. What might, what part of my dream is, is for anyone in any walk of life. To understand the profound impact for the good that they can have in the life of a survivor by simply taking the initiative to become trauma informed. Because I dream of a world where I know people dream of a world where abuse doesn't happen. Right. I always been in my head is I feel like people sit around saying abuse shouldn't happen. I'm like, that's like saying the house shouldn't catch on fire. Listen, people, the house is freaking on fire. Grab a bucket of water and let's go put out this fire. The reality is abuse happens. So stop. Arguing over, will it shouldn't happen? The reality is that it has happened. Yes. So get out of these, you know, ivory halls and towers, having the philosophical discussions, which granted there's a place at a time for that to change things, but get involved. Realize that there are survivors everywhere and that everything from the house being cleaned to choosing your groceries, to making sure you get whatever medication you need to even have an access to health care. Don't get me started on that financial education, knowing how to dress yourself, feeling confident, going to a job interview. I, I don't care across the board. Yes. For anyone to be trauma informed and to take responsibility for that and to take an active interest in what it means to be trauma informed, you're saving a life you truly are, because the difference that it makes in the experience of a survivor who is a hero for making it through the day and still being alive when suicide is a legitimate choice for many of us, you know, You're seeing people, people are in front of us every single day that we have no idea what they have survived, what battles they have won and to show kindness and to show awareness and to show care for what that person has gone through. And I, I understand that it's layered. I'm not just referencing a certain type of abuse. It's all layered, but to just honor that. And be willing to show up for other people in that way, in whatever line of work you have, that is what is going to turn the tide. And like I said, for me, it's makeup because that's, that for me has been my life for over 20 years. It's part of who I am, because I'm an artist. So for me, I love to share that with people and I love to teach people how. This particular form of art can be an ally in your healing journey, but on the broader, you know, the larger scale when it comes, like I said to also just educating allies in general, that's that is really the heart and soul of my message is you have no idea. The difference you can make, if you can just choose to become trauma informed and stop relegating trauma response to shelters. And charities because they, they, there's never going to be enough resources in those areas to cover the need. There just isn't, you know, so I think a lot of what we hear right now in current politics and current hot topics and conversations about the fact that, one element of a government force or one particular industry cannot address all of the needs that are out there in humanity. You need mental health experts. You need therapists, we all need each other. I mean, body workers. Yeah. Yeah. Every single person is essential. Yeah. And for someone to truly become aware of that and choose to activate the ability that they have to make a difference. That's when we're going to see the narrative of abuse changing for real, because then people won't just be doing what happens a lot, which is, well, it's not my problem, you know? Yeah, not a problem. That's for someone else to deal with. I don't know about all that. I mean, I get it. There's a, there's a lot, there's a lot coming at people and on, you know, every single day and it can be information overload, but right. Hopefully through the work that I'm doing with Beaty, for survivors, you know, there's, there's the beautiful story about the hummingbird and the forest fire. I'm probably not going to retell it. Perfectly, but someone can look it up. There's a story about hummingbird that sees that the forest is on fire and the hummingbird goes around trying to get everybody to help. And everyone was like, Oh, well, it's too big. I can't do anything about it. And the hummingbird goes and gets a drop of water at a time. And I may be making this up. I'm trying to remember the end of the story, but I believe what happens is that all the other animals see the hummingbird going and taking one drop at a time and that inspires them all. To do their part and, and, and that that's all it is. Nobody can, can do everything on their own, but everyone can do something. And everybody doing something in their own sphere, in their own community in whatever day it is that they're living. You know, all I can do is pick up a drop of water, like the hummingbird, get that drop of water and carry it to the fire. And I'm going to keep doing that until my wings don't work and I drop to the ground. Like that's, that's what I'm going to be doing. And I hope to inspire others to grab a bucket or a cup, or get a little drop. If that's all they can carry whatever they can do to put out the fire with me. That's what I'm most passionate about.

Tabitha: 1:18:39

I love it. I'm with ya. I've got my little water

Rafaella: 1:18:43

bottle. Typically that would have been a great product placement right there. I know we had sponsors at this point word from our sponsor H2O.

Tabitha: 1:19:04

Yes. No I'm with you, I'm with you. And I totally totally agree. You know, how much by becoming trauma informed. I think we also realize the ways in which we're re-traumatizing people sometimes, or even just not even, you know, everything. That's the great thing about self-awareness too is like, I totally believe in self love and fully accepting ourselves, but also being self-aware and like what we're doing, how what we do impacts the world around us and the people around us. You know, not that we should be tiptoeing around and worrying about what everyone, I don't think that, but just the, we operate a lot of times and everyone survived something. You know, we would have,

Rafaella: 1:19:53

and, and,

Tabitha: 1:19:54

and

Rafaella: 1:19:54

in becoming trauma, it's a trauma to even arrive in the world. I think I don't care what anybody entry into this realm is trauma

Tabitha: 1:20:05

for that kind of thing. And in other ways, it's, you know, not like, not like a lot of us have and have, you know, experienced trauma. It's just not okay. It's not okay. And That's also the hard part about being a survivor is like learning

Rafaella: 1:20:24

to undo, just learning to

Tabitha: 1:20:26

undo things that are just really not healthy

Rafaella: 1:20:28

for anyone. And then knowing what you can put in place of all those things, because it's the first step is to basically empty yourself. And in many ways, you know, it's like stripping and stripping the house down to its bare bones. You have to do that, but it's not meant to stay there. You need to be able to, you know, re recreate the walls, put in some new vaulted ceilings, get yourself a picture window, all those things. And it's the same thing with learning to live, not just survive, but live in a way that you can truly look at yourself in the mirror and say, you know what? I'm glad. That I'm still here because that's, to me, one of the most powerful statements that can ever come from a survivor. And I never thought, well, I shouldn't say it. It felt like the impossible dream. I lived in many, many years wanting to not be on this planet. And I always felt Jesus. So close to me in those moments in ways that I could not explain it, it pissed me off to be honest, because I would feel his presence palpably in the room with me when I was very close to taking my life, because I did get very close and I would feel his presence palpably, and I could feel a level of love that just undid me. And I knew that he loved me and that he. Had a vision of beauty for my life that I just couldn't see yet. And so it pissed me off because I was like, I didn't create this world. I didn't create myself. I, I recognized this, this sort of majesty, like lack of a better word, just a majesty in that moment where I was like, I want to. I just want to be done. I don't want to be here anymore. And there was a level of majesty and, and. And beauty sensing that love coming towards me. And I thought, okay, I can't end this life because I know that it's bigger than me. I can't, I can't do it. Like I can't, because I just can't, it would, I would get so mad because I'm like, damn, like, why am I here? Like you won't let me leave. I didn't like, I don't know how I ended up here. I can't leave. Like I can clearly like nothing is working because my life is just an absolute wreck. And so in those moments, I remember thinking, okay, well, I can't leave because there's something more that I'm not seeing, but I did live many years thinking, am I ever going to get to a place where I can truly fully in full body, the full body? Yes. As many people talk about, will I ever get to a place where I can say yes. I am so glad that I made it this far. I'm so glad to be here. I am so grateful that my body fought for me and fought to stay alive. When I was lying in a hospital bed, and the doctors were looking at me saying, you should not still be alive with what you have endured interview internal injuries, but my body was fighting for me and I had to learn. To become an ally to my body and say, okay, you know what? Instead of fighting against you, I'm going to fight with you. I'm going to stay on the same side as you, we're going to do this together because now I believe that there's something worth fighting for. And, and to, to be where I am today, I do have come so far and to be grateful and excited to be alive and yeah, to just be so happy and proud of myself for having come so far. And I look back and think. Yeah, I'm glad that I'm still here and I have a lot more that I want to do. And I finally understand things that I never thought I'd be able to understand about how to actually live in a way that doesn't hurt, like hell. Yeah. So I'm so glad you're still here too. I am too. I, I can say that wholeheartedly, they were times mhmm before. I'd be like and, you know, instead it'd be like, but I can, I, can I I know one of the, I think I'd mentioned this to you about. There's a post that I am planning on publishing pretty soon where I'm I put photos side by side of myself when I had been through some of the worst. And I literally looked like I was over 50 years old, which not that there's anything wrong with that, but ages 20 at the age of 20. Seven looking like I was over 50 years old. Like there's a problem. Yeah. I, I looked Haggard. I looked gaunt. I looked like I wasn't even, it looked like there was a body and no person inside. And I just snapped a photo because I wanted to get a current photo to put next to that one. And I look at the two photos and there's just no comparison because you see the photo from current day and you can see in my face, how. Deeply grounded. I am in my body and how fully present. And that to me is the greatest victory that I I'm fully in my body. I'm not out there somewhere. I'm right here. I recognize myself. Now when I hear, which is I never, I, I never thought I'd be able to recognize myself in the mirror. Yeah. And now I can, and it's not just being able to see my self in the mirror. It's like, Oh yeah, I know who you are. Hey, like, yeah, I see when I look in the mirror, I'm like, I remember you when you were five for years, I would look in the mirror and be like, I, this person, I don't know who this person is, but it's not me. And it makes total sense. Total sense with everything that I survived. Yeah. Yeah. I often sing to myself, the Mr. Rogers song. It's such a good feeling to know you're alive. Such a happy feeling. Yes. He goes all the words, happy to say, I think I'll make a snap and that's my song. And I sing it wholeheartedly. And I think to myself, damn, I have come a long way. I love the surrenders. I love Mr. Rogers. I do

Tabitha: 1:27:12

too. He's like one of my favorite people in all the world.

Rafaella: 1:27:16

Yeah,

Tabitha: 1:27:18

what a gift he gave us. Like he's got all this, all these tapes of him on TV for

Rafaella: 1:27:26

years, I used to have a cassette tape of his and I'm trying to remember, Oh gosh, it was a song I used to sing to myself all the time and now I'm drawing a blank because I still sing it to myself. It was about something about accepting yourself which is obviously Mr. Rogers, like that's his brand, but it was something about being, Oh, I remember it now. Oh my gosh. Yeah. I sang it to somebody about a month ago. And she just looked at me like she wanted to do more than social distancing. She wanted to just run as far on the other direction. But it is a song that I sing to myself because I remember it when I was a child. He it's about. Courage. And he said, be brave and then be strong. You can't go wrong when you were right. So be brave and then be strong. I wouldn't that, I don't even remember that. It wasn't on a tape. There was a cassette tape with mister rogers. Okay. And I, I mean, that song got me through some stuff when I was little, I'd just

Tabitha: 1:28:32

be like strong.

Rafaella: 1:28:37

So that was, that was my, that was my song that got me through a lot of things when I was little. And it just, you know, those things I think with you and I love loved and still love the simplicity. And I mean, I'm not saying anything new. We all know this about Mr. Rogers. Just such a simplicity to. Things that are our core elements of, of being human. And I always say, you know what, if you can explain it to a kid, then you've probably got a good handle on whatever it is that you're truly passionate about. If you have to, if you have to sit there and pontificate for 10 hours, which I'm not a great example of what I'm saying, because I've been pontificating now for hours. If I had to sit down. And speak to a kindergartener about if you had to boil it down. Yeah. Yeah. And I could, and I have before, because I mean, I've obviously worked with kids too, who are growing up in abusive households. And so I always feel that simplicity is absolutely fundamental. And Mr. Rogers, as a shining example of that, because when the chips are down and you don't have. Tons and tons of energy or resources. It has to be those little simple things that, that we all have to hold on to. Yeah. I mean, and that's what I had with that song. So I love that.

Tabitha: 1:30:07

I think he saved probably a lot of kids, sanity or lives

Rafaella: 1:30:12

that would even, I think I, I I'm sure that he helped many kids to feel a little bit safer. Then they wouldn't have otherwise because he was an example of you know, an adult that was being the adult and not wanting them to be the adult too. Like he, he made space for kids to be kids. Yeah.

Tabitha: 1:30:41

He's the best. We love you, Mr. Rogers, wherever you are. But, yeah, I'm really grateful. You're here too. I've had, I have loved getting to know you. We got, we just found each

Rafaella: 1:30:57

other. I know I was starting to color that too. That when you, you added yourself as a lone Wolf in your Facebook posts, I was like, now that's the person I need to talk to because that's me to a T. Yeah, it was just something to post and I was very reluctant to you know, potentially put myself out there to yeah, to just like share what I'm working on. And yeah, I already knew, I mean, this is going right back to what I was talking about. I, I, I was reluctant to put myself out there because I know that not everyone understands. Trauma, like when it comes to building a business or just showing up and getting things done. And so I have a lot that I'm working on and a lot that I know is already a success and will continue to be a success, but I knew that I also needed to not be so isolated. And so I was, I don't know something about what I saw when you posted that. You were looking for something similar, but you tended to be a lone Wolf about things. I was like, well, that's a good sign because me too, we can be lone wolves together.

Tabitha: 1:32:22

I think it's hard. I do think it's extra hard when you have been through trauma to be in groups where people are building things, because you just feel a little bit like, I don't know. Like I was in a business group the other day. And like, somebody wants to, someone was like, well, why haven't you yet? And why haven't you? And I'm like, thank you. Like, I was just like, okay, thanks. Like I was really fighting, getting defensive and also explaining myself to this person. Cause I'm like, obviously this person has had no issues, like starting four businesses and like. That's great for you. It's just like the mental hurdles. I have to jump every morning.

Rafaella: 1:33:09

Yeah. And I mean, I had been part of a business collective let's say previously, and I kept wondering what is wrong with me because I just, I, everything the focus seemed to be on. From the leadership. It seemed to be, the focus was on sort of shouting at people like a drill Sergeant. Yeah. I already put enormous pressure on myself and I am highly accountable to myself because guess what? I've been alone for years. And if I don't show up for myself, nobody else is going to show up for me. So I had to learn that a long time ago. So I don't actually have problems with showing up and making things happen. My challenges are on the flip side of. Bringing balance into the equation and making sure that I'm resting and drinking water and eating. And so I, yeah, I have found I've been challenged previously because I just, I thought is there's something wrong with me that I, I don't really need someone to scream at me because I'm, what are you doing to work? Yeah, I didn't realize there's I just realized I was like, you know what? It's just not the right fit for me because I guess there are people that really need. You know, like getting a physical trainer or something, a lot of people need an outside element to, to prod them. And that's not what I need and it's not an issue if that is what someone needs. There's plenty of groups out there for that. But I, would not be creating what I'm creating without knowing that I know myself. I know myself very well. And I know when and how to filter out the well-meaning voices that are just tone deaf, let's say, because there's no concept of what trauma brings to the equation. Thinking about that.

Tabitha: 1:35:10

I think because we understand, like we know what it's like for somebody who's come from trauma, especially since early childhood. To do anything with their lives. It's I mean, it is amazing. It is amazing. And just having that understanding, and I think we kind of clicked on that level too, in a lot of ways we just kind of understoood and were Sagittarians.

Rafaella: 1:35:39

Yes, it is. It is remarkable. How much would we Can compare notes on so many things. And that's just an tremendous blessing to me and really encouraging to me because I feel like someone gets it and I really don't feel as alone as I felt before in what I'm building, because it's just nice to kind of compare notes with someone who. Gets it without my having to spell absolutely everything out, you know? Yeah. Having

Tabitha: 1:36:18

people walk alongside you is hugely important I think a lot of us, when we, when we try to get into relationships or whatever, and the person just doesn't understand, they're looking at you, like, what's your problem? And I'm like, and we're like walking around with limbs. I'll. Broken piece of paying off and it's like, I

Rafaella: 1:36:36

don't know, I'm trying to get up,

Tabitha: 1:36:42

but it is different when people get it and they're walking alongside you and you're not constantly being dragged behind the cart all the time. And you've got time to kind of collect yourself and

Rafaella: 1:36:54

put the pieces back together and Oh yeah. It's just such a it's it's again, it all comes down to balance because yeah, some people just have never really been exposed to survivors or what it's like for survivors, but one of the things I tried to use as an illustration to help people understand. When they seem to really not get it because things aren't visible, like you said. Yeah. I use the analogy of something I saw recently as well. I've seen multiple examples where there was a woman who I believe was a firefighter and she was injured, responding to a call, a tree, fell on top of her and pinned her. And they said she was going to be paralyzed forever, that she would never walk again. And then her story. Is incredible because she's got all of this. People are friends and family are filming her recovery and she's been in the hospital and she's been in a hospital bed. And now she's, they filmed when she was first able to sit up and people were crying because it was like this huge thing, which it is. And then there was filming of when she first was able to swing her legs around and like put her legs on the side of the bed. And she was in tears and all of the physical therapists were in tears. And I watched that and I thought, wow, Everyone gets so emotional. And we all understand because yes, it is so important because it's visible and people think, Oh, you were hit by a tree. You were actually physically mangled. He was potentially paralyzed for life. So we. See, and we understand, wow, what a hero, what a fighter. And nobody would walk into that hospital and be like, why haven't you run a five k yet? You just need to get with the program. You're just lazy. You just don't have, self-discipline like nobody in their right mind would say that to her because there's already an awareness of, she is incredible. Look at what she's done already with what happened to her. Yeah. So if there were anything that I could do, any magic wand, I would love to wave in this life. It would be the magic wand that helps people to see and understand the invisible destruction and mangling, like you said, that we, as survivors have made it through. And the fact that we are in our right minds, upright, even working on these various passion projects, I mean, That is to be celebrated. And I would love for people to have the, the, the eyes in some way to see the reality. That's all there behind us as survivors. Like it's all there. If someone would just have the eyes to see, wow, look at everything. This person has overcome. And so where you're standing right now is a victory and you're on your way to greater victory. And that support is so needed for people to see us and believe in us and, and cheer for us from the sidelines, the same way they're cheering for this other dear person who had the severe physical injury. You know, it's not that there's a value difference between the two, it's just the, the, the, the energy body and the mind, and even our electromagnetic wavelengths that we have individually coming from our heart, those can be impacted by abuse. Like there's a whole other element of who we are. And unfortunately, up until very recently, it was completely discounted that there's anything else going on about us besides our physical body. And that's just not the case.

Tabitha: 1:40:26

Yeah. Yeah. And, and to that, to the point you were making, it's not a comparison game. Like I think I've only had one. With all the writing I've done on Instagram and all that stuff. I've only had one person do that. And they were like, stop complaining.

Rafaella: 1:40:41

I was, you

Tabitha: 1:40:43

know, beaten and like all this. And I'm like, well, I haven't told my whole story yet, but also you don't have to be touched by anybody to be affected. I was beaten, but I mean, this person was like listing off all these things and I'm like this isn't a comparison game. And the fact that. You know, there are people who've been through severe things and they also come out to not understand. And I think that's hugely important to not everyone who's just had, you know, loving parents or are the people who can't relate. There are people who've been through severe abuse who can't relate, and I want to reach those people to just be like, you've been through something

Rafaella: 1:41:23

horrible. And,

Tabitha: 1:41:26

and the comparison game, like, you know,

Rafaella: 1:41:29

this is. How can I help you? It's true. It's true. And, and to it's just very it's a very limited perspective to, to again, put a box around someone's suffering or try to quantify it when you haven't lived in their body and you have not been through whatever that person has been through you either. To me, there is no comparison. Each person's. Experience is unique.

Tabitha: 1:42:00

That's the ultimate of what staying a victim is, is living in that. My S my, you know, I've done, my suffering was much worse than yours, but I've moved on with my life. That kind of a thing. That's, there's still creating more suffering and living in victim mode that way. And that's, that's what I think of as true victim mode that. Talking about these things and not saying, look, this happened to me and this is what it's like to actually deal with it.

Rafaella: 1:42:25

Well, yeah. And trying to project who you are onto someone else and think, well, this was this way for me. And therefore it was either much worse or trying to quantify in that way is just a false. It's a false start. It's a false premise because even in the natural world, I, I, this is another thing that I say quite often. That's like, when you go, trying to say that what's best for a sunflower is also best for a little violet in the woods and it's just not the yeah. Geez. So all differently. So in terms of how we're all designed uniquely as living organisms, just like any other element on this earth, what's good for one. Is not good for another. And what is horrific for one organism and, and full of destruction would not necessarily be for another. So you can't sit there and say, Oh, well, I, I dealt with this. And so you should have been able to, or this was fine, or, Oh, that's nothing. Or you should get over it. Or what I went through was worse. It's just a false premise there's no legitimacy to that kind of an argument because. You're starting with a complete false idea that everyone is somehow the same and that this is some sort of like numbers game when it's really, it's not.

Tabitha: 1:43:45

Yeah. And you, haven't given yourself time to move through your own hurts, you know, and not just move on from them, but move through them and, and work through them. And. Yeah, so much about the healing process is it affects every area of your life. And without fully just being able to fully, fully accept yourself and fully look into all of these different areas. And kind of just, all right, I'm going to take this area. I'm going to look at it and like step into it, you know, and just taking those steps and just like with beauty, for survivors, it's one more area. And it's a more fun area, even though at times, I think, I think at times it could probably be very intense

Rafaella: 1:44:45

to go through

Tabitha: 1:44:46

that. Yeah. And I know there are times in my life where looking in the mirror was just

Rafaella: 1:44:55

painful. Yeah. Yeah.

Tabitha: 1:44:58

Emotionally

Rafaella: 1:44:59

painful. Well, yeah, because to be cliched and not, I mean, I do, I do believe the, the old adage that the eyes of the window to the soul and for me, yeah. I didn't want to see myself because everything, my eyes. Like I saw everything in my eyes and it was it's, it would be very hard to face all of that. It was just a constant reminder of everything that, that was wrong and of where I, I was still stuck or what I had survived. Like I saw everything written on me that had happened to me instead of seeing who I am, which is completely different. And yeah, it's, it's funny in a way to sort of, again, flip that narrative so that when you're looking in the mirror, you're not seeing what's happened to you or what you survived. You're seeing you, I

Tabitha: 1:45:53

love that your work is very, very important.

Rafaella: 1:45:56

Oh, thank you. Thanks. Thank you for being interested in, in hearing about it and. Oh, I can't wait to share it with everybody. Always letting me get very passionate and go on and on for who knows how long you do anything. You just are. Those things. I love

Tabitha: 1:46:17

it. Your passion is wonderful. It's beautiful. It's inspiring.

Rafaella: 1:46:22

Thank you. And you're very

Tabitha: 1:46:23

inspiring and I encourage everyone to go check out your Instagram page. I'll have all that stuff in the show notes. And then your website and see what's

Rafaella: 1:46:31

going on. Thank you so much. You're very gifted writer too. I love reading your stuff, so, Oh, thank you very much. I, I love writing, so yeah,

Tabitha: 1:46:40

I think we have that in common too. Yeah. And I can't wait to see you next week.

Rafaella: 1:46:45

I know we're going to have a visit to celebrate and I will be proudly. It's 14, my special blue nail Polish, Asian.

Tabitha: 1:46:57

I'll have to take some pictures of that and post them.

Rafaella: 1:47:01

Magellan didn't show up. No, he's he is, he is out like a light. I

Tabitha: 1:47:08

know I'm not going to get

Rafaella: 1:47:09

his moment of glory. Not today, not today on your

Tabitha: 1:47:13

Instagram page though. He's the handsome guy that he

Rafaella: 1:47:15

is. Yeah. Literally on every Instagram page I've ever made and he will he's, he's my mascot. He's definitely the mascot. And when I was living in Italy, I don't know if I ever told you this. I had people asking me to create a fan page for him. So I tell you that. No, but I believe it. I had literally requests. People were like, why haven't you made a fan page for him? I want to like a song on Facebook. And I'm like, this is insane that my cat has more fans than I ever will. There might be something there. I know I started out a little comic strip for cartoon series with him, the drawings that I was doing at the time as well, which I need to redo that again, because it's just, he's just perfect for all of that. He's. He is a personado was we say in Italian, he is a character.

Tabitha: 1:48:06

Yeah, he definitely is. I can attest to that. Yes, but no, one's going to

Rafaella: 1:48:11

know now. No, but you can, you can book him for his own podcast. I'm sure he would have a lot to say. And he that'd

Tabitha: 1:48:20

be at like midnight. Is

Rafaella: 1:48:22

that when he's awake in the middle of the night, he is very chatty when he's awake.

Tabitha: 1:48:32

He's a sweetheart. I'll tell him we missed him.

Rafaella: 1:48:35

I will.

Tabitha: 1:48:41

This has been wonderful and amazing. And I thank you so much for coming on. I love this. I know other people are going to get a lot out

Rafaella: 1:48:49

of this. Well, thank you for having me. I'm really, really, truly honored, not just to be a part of your podcast, but to know you and know you as a friend, and I'm really excited for what you're creating and the difference that you're making in so many people's lives. And so thank you for extending the opportunity to me, to, to chat with you too. It's been great. It's been my pleasure. Well, as we say in French I was going to say it's not, not goodbye. It's too soon. And that's for sure. Yes.