Keeping Up With Dancehall: A Listener's Perspective

Building from our last episode on keeping up with new dancehall I invited listener and filmmaker Mikey T to join us in a continued conversation where he shares from his perspective on the transformation of dancehall as a genre. 

We discuss: 

• The "money pull-up" phenomenon has DJs prioritizing the preferences of big spenders rather than introducing audiences to fresh sounds
• How changing media consumption has affected lyrical complexity. In an era of shortening attention spans and algorithm-driven content, the intricate wordplay that once defined dancehall legends like Bounty Killer and Vybz Kartel feels increasingly rare. 
• Modern tracks often lack the storytelling richness that connected deeply with listeners, replaced by repetitive themes that perform well on short-form platforms.

We're degrading the changes, but exploring how technology, economics, and cultural shifts have reshaped Caribbean music, while speculating on fascinating possibilities for the future. Could we see a return to gatekeeping as a positive force? Might artists start withholding music from streaming platforms entirely, making live performances the exclusive way to experience new material?

Transcript

Welcoming Mikey T to the Podcast

Speaker 1 0:00

Welcome to the Style and Vibes podcast . With me , Makayla , I'll be giving you the inside scoop on music , fashion , culture and more from Caribbean celebrities and tastemakers across the globe , pushing our culture with authenticity and , of course , style and vibes .

Speaker 2 0:21

Hello everyone and welcome to another edition of the Style and Vibes podcast with yours truly , Mikaela . If you are new here , welcome to the family . If you are coming back , welcome family . And I am joined by the extended family , carrie Ann Reed-Brown . You guys know her as the executive producer for Style and Vibes and she was just on our last episode . So this is kind of like a continuation of that , because we had so much to talk about with music discovery , especially keeping up with the new music , and we were kind of discussing it from our perspective and wanted to bring in our good , good friend Mikey T Wagwan . Mikey T . So Mikey T has been on the podcast before he joined us in the commentary on the One Love movie . He is a filmmaker himself . We've had reviewed his documentary A Jamaica Story on Reels and Rhythms . Quick plug for that podcast , that with me . I'm Kerri-Ann Reed Brown . If you have not already subscribed , make sure you guys go subscribe to that and check out Jamaica's story . But welcome Mikey T to the Stylin' Vibes family .

Speaker 3 1:32

Thank you . Thank you so much . Thank you , ladies , for having me Music . I love it . I love it . It's interesting . Yes , yes .

Speaker 2 1:40

So you had almost like a preview of that episode that we recorded and I know that you and Kerry , you have to give us the insight because we did not talk in the community , but we know you have a little more insight to the conversation . So , kerry , kerry , all right , so quick back story .

Speaker 4 2:00

So I asked the community how they felt about you know , like when they reach a certain age , like what aspects of the culture that they are evolving , away from not totally giving up . And I did a poll and then when I posted the results of the poll , that most people were kind of , you know , moving away from music , mikey T replied and said we have a whole world of comment about people who have issue with music and the music is slack . And I said you know what , you're not going to get the argument from me there , because the argument that the music now of today is too slack doesn't , it just doesn't live . You know we can rebut that argument in so many ways from 1980 to now . So , but I said it was a little bit more nuanced than that and you know , I know Mikey T has a lot to say about that . So that's really the cliff notes of that conversation .

Speaker 2 2:55

So in your perspective , Mikey , from the commentary around the survey itself to listening to our podcast and the conversation , Tell me about your thoughts on today's music coming out of dance hall and kind of your understanding in terms of discovery and what do you think as a consumer and a lover of the culture

Dancehall Music: Where It Needs To Be

Speaker 2 3:19

. What is happening there ?

Speaker 3 3:21

Okay , yeah , that's a tall order , but I have my notes here , but I think dance hall music , for the most part , is exactly where it needs to be , and I think a lot of people forget the anthropologic part of music , where a lot of people are telling their stories and telling their realities . I think what tends to happen , though , is when the growth of music going from okay , this is where I came from . Now I'm going through this transition what does that music look like ? Staring away from the struggle , staring away from the one shirt and the one shoes and mommy hungry and stuff like that . How do we grow the music to where we feel just as good , listening to the positive side of music , and I think that's where Dancehall is missing what reggae has captured .

Speaker 3 4:19

Yes , we understand you have come from the struggle , but at some point , brother , when I see you at 10 different parties with $5,000 coins in your pocket , you can't keep telling me , say you're struggling and you can't be chopping that much money and Mocha hasn't picked you up yet is a disconnect into where . Telling a story of my reality to then glorifying a situation , that is wrongdoing . I get it . You may have come from X , y , z , and we need to have that conversation and that's why I said like , even when it comes to scamming , songs which a lot of people aren't OK with , I always ask to take . And when my friends send me music , I'm like , are you speaking of something that you grew up seeing or are you trying to glorify and trying to make some quick sales ? Because one of the things that tend to happen and you guys spoke about , like the discovery of music , when you went to the party and the DJ would play some new music and test out the crowd and you say , oh , what song is this ? And conversation starts to bubble about music . But one of the things that tend to be happening I'm not sure if it's here in the diaspora as much , but heavy in Jamaica DJs are going to certain parties and they don't care whether they get paid or not , because they are playing for the money pull-up

Money Pull-Ups and Changing DJ Culture

Speaker 3 5:44

.

Speaker 3 5:45

And the money pull-up isn't going to come from the new artist being played . The money pull-up is going to come from the chopper song . Because when you play the chopper song , a chopper is going to come and he's going to put a five thousand , he's going to put a ten thousand dollar on your council and then , when that chopper put ten thousand dollars on your council and then when that chap will put $10,000 on your council , hear the DJ why . Man just come drop $10,000 . Next one has to reach , and you don't know what money is reaching there .

Speaker 3 6:16

And then you hear it why US touching the council $100 US for money , pull up . So now nobody is thinking to come to the council unless they have a hundred US or more . And they're creating this environment where they're trying to just make their money . They're not trying to spread the love of music , they're trying to get paid in a way that they feel is substantial to them . So I think that's where life is . We're running down the money because we want to live the lifestyle and we're forgetting the part of it is the art and the music .

Speaker 4 6:47

You said something there that I think Mikaela and I we've talked about what dancehall is missing and we can't say hip hop is missing . Some of that too .

Speaker 2 6:56

Right I was about to say it's not just dancehall , Our genre right , it's across the board . I even watched a TikTok today that was asking about where is the happy Afro beats music ? Yes , yes , yes . So it's a trend across . Black music that is popular . And Mikey T , go ahead , Carrie . I want to come back to that point . But , Carrie , go ahead .

Speaker 4 7:23

No , it's to that point right . Remember , in hip hop you had the Fresh Prince and Jazzy Jeff character In dancehall . You had the Snaggapos , you had the Professor Nuts . You know you had those who were comedians but were , you know , creating music , and you don't have that anymore . You had like , okay if you wanted to hear a song . You don't have that anymore . You had like , okay if you wanted to hear a song , right , you know you had your snaggle poster , if you want . You know you have your pie pie , you have your gun tune , you have your girl tune , you have all these other things .

Speaker 4 7:54

And you know that diversity you know we feel like is no longer there and that diversity came together through what Rhythms ? Right , so on one rhythm you go have a tati and then you go have , you know Gwango , beria did , and you know Agodon , and we kind of miss those critical ingredients and that's kind of one of the reasons why people are nostalgic and they're like music no good . And I'm not saying good music , non-gopliya either . We've already established that . But you're right , like the different types of music , the happy , the fun aspects of music .

Speaker 2 8:32

And even the differentiation between the artists on one rhythm . Right , because if you have 10 schema artists on one rhythm , they all sound the same . 10 schema artists on one rhythm , they all sound the same the contents , the lyrical flow , the content of what they're saying , and just the melodic . So there is no need for a rhythm if they all sound the same . There's nothing distinct about each artist on a rhythm where they all sound the same , where they all sound the same . And I think that's why when Russian resurged his rhythm and there was a variety of people , almost like a competition , trying to be on the rhythm , it was because , one , it was nostalgic . Two , every artist was giving a completely different energy .

Speaker 2 9:20

So to your point , carrie , I think the idea of rhythms from a popularity standpoint can still exist , but as a producer , you need to voice variety . But , mikey T , you brought up a really good point about money pull-up . I mean , it's not like money pull , but there was also , there was still variety in that pull-up . And the other idea behind money pull-up is because it's not necessarily that that song is good , it's just what the person with the most money wants to hear mm-hmm Right , that is the essence of it and that is the essence of it Right , and sometimes it's good and sometimes it's not so you know , majority of the time the person with the most money .

Speaker 3 10:11

Especially when you go into the local parties and the local scene , the person with the most money tends to be the person who is who is the chopper

Missing Variety in Modern Music

Speaker 3 10:21

. Was the chopper ? Yeah , and what you ? What you said in the um other episode , that was very interesting and I never paid attention to , but I do understand . It is the vast amounts of music that is coming out . The little equipment like this laptop that I have on my desk and I can buy a 200 plug-in and a 200 microphone and I can record music , I can put out music .

Speaker 3 10:47

Chronic law puts out a song almost every day , you know , and and not only a song , but he's constantly putting out songs and he's constantly putting out music videos because there isn't that gatekeeping . So even if a producer holds and cherishes his rhythm like they used to , the dancer , always be like yo bro , let me just go find YouTube and download one tune and when you know if it busts , it busts , and that's what happens to a lot of them . And then , when you guys were even talking about the clean music and Vibes Cartel being that kind of last era where people used to do the radio edits . I think , like you guys said , because there's so much new music coming out and because people want to constantly hear new music , am I going to spend time actually writing and redoing my song to make a clean version to go on the radio that nobody listens to ? Or am I just going to edit whatever so that the kids can look it up on YouTube and play that version of the song ? As long as it's not saying the bad words , the parents are fine and that's what they end up doing .

Speaker 3 11:51

And I guess we're running into this era where there's too much access , where you kind of sort of do need a little bit of a gatekeeper . Because I just seen I don't even know the young kid's name , but there's this young kid that was all over social media , came out with some song , did something , and I saw him post another new song and I'm just like I have no idea what this child is talking about . You can tell he's trying to regurgitate the music that he's heard and you know it's sad . It's sad when there isn't a world for everybody to be able to write a song . If Granny wake up one day , granny should be able to get on a dance hall beat and be able to sing whatever she wants to sing , because there should be that essence of storytelling and joy and fun that comes from our music . And when I say dance hall and stuff like that , I apologize . I don't mean only dance hall is doing this , but it is the genre that I delve in the most Because , like you guys said , all Black or African diaspora and African music coming from us tend to drift into this world where it's like yo , if you ain't talking about the ghetto , if you're not talking about struggles , or you're not talking about this , you're not talking about real music .

Speaker 3 13:08

And it's like I want to be happy too sometimes , like I have people that go to carnival all over . People don't want to go to the Kingston carnival as much because it's like they don't want to hear a dance hall song talking about poverty , talking about scamming and talking about guns . They go to carnival to dance , have a good time and listen to songs about just straight partying and we're kind of losing that fun aspect .

Speaker 4 13:38

I just wanted to sing Monday , tuesday , wednesday .

Speaker 2 13:42

I mean , like you know energy , know energy vibe , like that's what I want here and I I think that that's that's also a key theme is variety , because I liken a lot of the skama chapel music to the gunman tune that we grew up with . You know , know what I mean . And the slackness . The slackness has always been there , right , it's just in your face . It's very raw . So I totally understand .

Speaker 2 14:11

But where the opportunity is missed is the variety because , like Governor is an artist that has tried to bring storytelling , idonia is another one , conscience is another one .

Speaker 2 14:24

Like they constantly do a variety of galchun , funchun , patachun , chun for the Monday , like they do the variety , but it doesn't get the same response as like a skeng or a chronic law .

Speaker 2 14:41

And like , for me , chronic law , like I think he's lyrically talented but it's just too dark for where I am in my life at this point and I think a lot of the music is just , not only is the rhythm , the rhythms are very dark and very heavy , but then you couple that with the , the lyrical content and the delivery , because if you think of of mavado , early mavado , you know what I'm saying . I'm on the rock , like he's literally singing because he's in this suffering situation , but he so melodically comes out of a space and the rhythm is hard , like it's not a soft . If you think about angry or management , like we get excited when we hear that rhythm , you know what I mean . And it's not just the rhythm , it's the lyrical , verbal war that is happening , that it is also coupled with the variety Full clip till me sleep , like that's my era of variety . Go ahead , terry .

Speaker 4 15:42

But the variety has always been there . You had Gonchun Beanie . Yes , you had gun-chun beanie . Yes , you have gyal-chun beanie , really , yes , wait , bounty bulletproof forehead and head and everything but but yes , yeah , you had .

Speaker 2 15:57

A little bit more clear , clear you understand as long as you're standing there .

Speaker 4 16:03

Exactly right , you had that bounty as well , you know , and it's like there's always been variety . Like Spragas says , search out them ends and seek . That's a love song . You understand what I'm saying , but I get the love song . Like he said , if you ever see a girl in shorts or slippers looking like that , you know settersters , you can you visualize , yes , me know , the girl with the setters . I walk , you know , but like , everything is just this one um , this one tone , and it's like yo , yeah , as an artist , you have dimension , you have , you have fun , don't you ? You fall in love , don't it you ? You know you , you have hard times and you know , like , show that variety and what ? What we're not seeing is that variety , but that's

Watering Down of Lyrical Content

Speaker 4 16:52

always been part of the music . Michaela knows this . Like I go back to Bount not , not Bountakila , not even being a man , the bees them .

Speaker 4 16:59

Buju Bantan , voice of Jamaica . Like you're going to go through a wave of emotions in there . You know Ima sing one PSA song about . You know safe sex . Ima sing one song about everything , something wicked . Ima sing about the poor tea Girl . You made my day . He's in love , and that's like we need that variety and that's kind of why some artists , they have that longevity , because they have a variety of music , that even when you're at a particular stage in life and you're happy , I could pull a tune from a particular artist to represent how I feel or where I am in a stage in my life , and that is essentially what's missing . You can't sing both your other song then , but if you're happy , sing a happy song , you know a song then .

Speaker 3 17:47

But if you're happy , sing a happy song . You know , crazy um , because I know you guys spoke about gage last time and all the backlash it reached for dominia . You know , and a lot of people don't remember that period of gage when he stopped bleaching and he sung pure , conscious music and then he got back the bleach because it's not popular again Because he doesn't get no bookings .

Speaker 3 18:05

He is a man who needs he had this song , Weed , money , girls , honey , house and care and land for me friends and me family . If you know one of them , then Like he had this stretch where he was just talking pure conscious music and he wasn't getting booked anywhere . And when the gays start , you know people are talking about him . So it is funny and you know , with the running funny .

Speaker 2 18:39

I think if you think about there is a simplistic like . There's this lack of understanding , complex thoughts , expressing complex thoughts through song , complex passages , reading like comprehension , wise right For younger adults , because video and audio play such a big part in the role of learning that not only is the education kind of coming down in terms of the delivery , but that also , in turn , waters down the lyrical , creative content of the songs . And I think it's something that we didn't really discuss and we have to take that into consideration because consumers are now looking for simple , easy something that is very similar . That's how algorithms really work . But it's not just TikTok , it's media , it's reading . It's like people don't read books like they used to . People don't read articles the way that they used to . Like I was talking to Carrie the other day . I'm like this article isn't even 250 words , there's so many grammatical errors and this is on like a big publication of a website , like I think that those things cannot be pushed aside . So the music is also reflecting where society is from a consumption standpoint . Mm-hmm .

Speaker 4 20:15

The music , except for Bounty Killer Vocabulary and . Ti TI . Ti , ti TI . Ti and Bounty always have some big word Me . I said where did that come from ? It's fine , it's fine . Me , I don't know what that word is . Me , I don't look it up . No , I mean we're laughing , but again , you're right . No , it's true , Like they're using big words and me can't guarantee if you always hear a big word and you have to question what the word they mean . Is that a real word ? Ti , I'm about to kill her . Ever go say something .

Speaker 2 20:53

we are gonna be like dictionary app come like make up words , you have to know where the origin comes from , like and the context of that . So that's why I said , like vibes cartel is kind of the last of an era to kind of lyrically play on words and flows .

Speaker 4 21:10

But then you have Vibes , cartel , cxc . You get these song texts that are English .

Speaker 2 21:17

But that's what rhyming is , that's what songs are , they're poems , they're poetic , and people forget that these are art forms that , should you know , reflect some sort of intelligence , like , if you're gonna tell a story , if you're gonna tell a bad man story , tell the story . No man , give me the visuals . But again , I'm asking for that as a person who comes from an era that that was the norm . The next generation , that's not necessarily the norm , because they're more visually driven by the , the images that they see on their phone screens or tablets or computers . There are some creative videos .

Speaker 3 22:01

I'm not gonna lie , I've seen some really good ones , but if they

Nostalgia vs. Algorithm-Driven Music

Speaker 3 22:04

all look and feel and sound the same like to me , I just can't I can't , I can't get with it , but I understand it and I let the people who like it rock , but that doesn't mean I think it's good but you gotta think about it , even when it comes to vibes cartel , because , like we said , there comes a point where money has to come into play . I pay attention to everything vibes cartel does , and you know what one thing Vibes Cartel is going to do that a lot of people don't pay attention to ? He's going to try everything , even if it don't work . When Tommy Lee came out and he was Uncle Demon , don't nobody remember Father Devil ? Uncle Demon worked and then Vibes Cartel tried to do the song Father Devil . Yes .

Speaker 3 22:46

And people heard it and was like no , and you never heard that song ever again . And he's doing it now because I seen it , he was previewing some song . I think he did with one of his songs , since he'd been out of jail and Bob's Cartel talking about . He called somebody on his iPhone and he never get no dial tone and I was like sir , please stop , you are 49 years old .

Speaker 2 23:09

The man's phone is um top . Well , tell me .

Speaker 4 23:13

Oh , I'm not talking about Tommy , no , but remember um , what's his name from born um , born to Americans . Talked about how you know , when in link up with the Moby DJ and he start DJj in a more nasally type way , like that's the influence , than it work . You know , like you know he , he had some hits from that and it worked for him . So you're right , you know he's willing to take uh , uh , he's going to experience , yeah , an experiment , yeah , yeah I mean a perfect example .

Speaker 4 23:45

It's one of his biggest hits and he took something that every little pitney jamaica know . When they say speak gypsy , um , I wasn't one of those kids who know . My grandmother looked at me and said stop it . But stop it , yes , right , but he took something that was inherently part of a culture where , even if you don't know how to speak it , you know what it is and you put it in one song and it's his biggest chart . What is highest charting song in his in his career ? You know like he was playing . You know Fever like all over the place . So you are right about his willingness to experiment .

Speaker 3 24:26

Yeah , no , because you got to think about it . Like would a lot of Vibes Cartel songs make it in today's day and age ? Because where would you dance to it ? Tell me why . Mr Big Yard Ling , like where would that work in TikTok ? I forgot which one it was , no , but I tried . When I remember I saw a video of that and I sent it to everybody I do with my age group and I'm like yo , where were you ?

Speaker 3 24:53

Where was your greatest memory of hearing this Vibes Cartel song ? Everybody wrote me back . It was like , oh , those were my days back when I was clubbing and you're in the club and you hear that vibe , tell them no butter . Tribe , call them no butter , hear that . But there ain't nobody that try , goddamn nobody . That . I , we , everybody , everybody . And you know that's what I meant by part of it , where music is also nostalgia , because I seen dale elliott talking about it , where when he was going to ue , when alkaline came out and he had a song After All , after all , after all , dog , just a weird pun , a car , ford , ford on the wall , like he remembers that song because at Yui , when that song played , the DJ cut off the music and everybody sung it . You guys might not know that song Me . I've been listening to Alkaline since he was in high school , still before he graduated .

Speaker 4 25:46

When he had the black eyes , when he had the black eyes before he had the black eye long before he he was .

Speaker 3 25:52

and then I remember when he did the black eye thing and and Alkaline always used to sing in his songs , when he put the black eyes in 2016 and it was 2014 and everybody's like yo , what's going on , what's about to happen ? And you know , I remember being with my friends 2015 , new year's eve and when , 2060 , they're like Mike , you can finally sing this part of the song now because it makes sense , like you know , and there's always that magic and that nostalgia of music and people forget . There's going to be a lot of songs that come and go and there's a lot of songs from back in the days that people don't know . I know a few songs like Fab Five and you know , like those songs , and it's like I'm sure there was a lot of musicians that came out that people were like , oh , everybody was listening to it , but did it carry over ?

Speaker 3 26:43

but did it carry over , yeah , and when you match , when you try to match nostalgia with everything that's coming out , especially , like you said , in a generation where more music is coming out in a month than came out in a year , it's rough because a lot of BS is going to slip through it .

Speaker 2 27:05

Yeah .

Speaker 3 27:07

And I was telling Carrie because I was watching a podcast and I guess Lloyd Lang I guess he's on IG as Reggaeology yeah . And I was listening to his podcast . I was like yo , like he spoke about , like the diaspora bubble and like the music industry and algorithms and how you have to play more to algorithms than you play to people , which is , I guess , good in a way because there aren't as many gatekeepers , but it's bad in a way because it kind of crushes creativity because everybody's rushing to get money .

Speaker 2 27:44

So there's definitely going to be a resurgence of going back to live music in order to combat a lot , because now I talked a bit in a previous episode about like AI and how good it's getting at creating , but I think that the actual experience of creating music not just beat making , but actually playing instruments and being able to transition , like incorporate digital elements into a live show and I would not even be surprised if we get so far as to there are going to be artists who do not release their , like Prince don't release their music on any streaming platform and you have to go and see them live in order to see that .

Speaker 3 28:40

That'd be really dope .

Speaker 2 28:41

As as like a marketing , like you can't access any of my music , you have to come to my show . Like I feel , like that's a Beyonce , like that's Beyonce's next move . I'm not releasing any more albums , I have enough . You need to come and see me in person and you're gonna get all this . New clips might go around , but they're not . They're gonna be taken right down and you can't have it . And it's in this exclusive package that only the artists can distribute . I think that's where we're going , because AI is getting way too good , the algorithms . People are just tired of the same old , same old , and so the only way

The Future: Live Music and Gatekeeping

Speaker 2 29:23

to get something different is to seek out something different , and I think that the next generation is going to be seeking differentiation heavily , and gatekeeping is all the way coming back .

Speaker 3 29:37

No , I think you need it , it has to come back . It has to because it's too much .

Speaker 4 29:41

Listen , listen , it's too much . This is the biggest lesson I went fly the gate gone wrong .

Speaker 3 29:48

People need that because sometimes I get some music and some yo dog listen to me new tune and you're like you needed a producer to tell you no . You needed somebody other than your dogs . That was flunking high with you and that is the problem , that they were there and that's the ghost to show you how nostalgia works , because somebody will say yo listen to my present tune and , brother , you're just happy about this because y'all had a good time making this . This is garbage .

Speaker 4 30:15

Yes .

Speaker 3 30:17

And I'm happy for you that you had a good time making it .

Speaker 4 30:22

But nobody . No , like I voice the tune and it's only certain people hear the tune . Michaela knows the tune . All right , it's my birthday song and nobody will ever hear that song .

Speaker 3 30:37

Listen , I did some raps with my cousin . When my cousin came up here he had his computer and things that we did and I'm like , oh yeah , never will I , ever , Never will this see the light of day . But it is fun . But there needs to be a little gatekeeping . And I always find it funny because I tell people , over the last two years I have seen the trajectory and the moves that seem to be happening with dancehall artists .

Speaker 3 31:03

So what tends to happen is you get a one song , you get a buzz . Then , when you start to get a buzz , then you start getting bookings at local parties in your parish . After you get the parties in your local parish , then you're going to get a call because they come from a lot of different places . But then you'll get a call from a couple places in Kingston . Then you'll get a call from Mobe Negril Ochi and you start to get that buzz now within the tourism . And then all of a sudden Belize , one of the smaller Caribbean islands , calls you and you see them . They're putting out music and they're going to the shows and they're constantly .

Speaker 3 31:46

You get tired of them after a while and then what happens ? Boom , US visa comes in . Once the US visa comes in , they're going to hit the DC , the New York , the Florida , the Connecticut . They're going to hit these states where we are , as a diaspora , heavy . And then that's when , you see , their price goes up . And once their price goes up from the states , you probably won't hear them in that many parties in Jamaica because their price has outreached

Artist Trajectory and Career Development

Speaker 3 32:16

the ROI for a Jamaican party . So you'll see them at the big SunFest , You'll see them at the big Negril and Ochi and Montego Bay parties . Then Canada Visa comes through .

Speaker 2 32:27

But that's the problem , right ? You can't just work one market the same way and essentially people forget . You have to do that over and over and over and over and over again .

Speaker 2 32:39

And I think that there's a lack of consistency there because they think that , oh well , I've got this price here , I'm not going to come back and do this little thing over here . And that's really not the case . You know like the work ethic has to trans , transcend . You know the price , the price right , because you'll eventually get to the price . And , trust me , all you really need in a catalog is 10 songs In order to say you're a catalog artist . That's not even a full album . 10 songs can carry you to perform until you can no longer perform anymore 10 my man homie is still going with one , with one , is it motivation ?

Speaker 3 33:25

yes , yes , exactly but no , that's that . That's where music is , ed , you've've seen it . Enhance is going through it right now . Valiant went through it , skang went through it Skilly's gone through it , but Skilly's doing a little bit better than most .

Speaker 2 33:43

Well , he's getting a lot of good features .

Speaker 3 33:45

He's getting his little oh mainstream . Yeah , oh mainstream .

Speaker 2 33:50

He's getting really good features and I think that that's good for him , but he also kind of needs to drop his own hit again .

Speaker 3 33:58

He needs that next one . I need to leave my girl Shensky alone and let her experiment .

Speaker 2 34:02

I tell everybody that I think she's doing good . I think she's on a good trajectory .

Speaker 3 34:07

I think we're just getting jealous because she's leaving us .

Speaker 2 34:11

No , I don't think so . I think she kind of left a little bit , but then she rallied her own back on this album and I think she'll continue to do that . But thank you guys so much for all of the conversation . I feel like we need a part three because we had so much to talk about .

Speaker 3 34:30

But thank you , thank you for having me .

Speaker 2 34:32

Absolutely . Mikey T , carrie Ann . Thank you guys so much for joining me on this episode and , like I always say , live tummy peeps .