#146 - Creativity and Collaborative Thinking with Jeff Madoff

In this episode of the Morning Upgrade podcast I talk with Jeff Madoff about his morning routine, alleviating stress and pressure, happiness and fulfillment, boosting creativity and much more.

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Announcer  

Welcome to the Morning Upgrade podcast with Ryan Cote, where we feature casual conversations with entrepreneurs about personal development and growth.

Ryan

Hey, Jeff, welcome to the Morning Upgrade podcast. How's it going?

Jeff 

Good. Thanks for having me on. Ryan.

Ryan  

I'm excited to talk to you. Let's kick this off by telling my audience of the morning upgraders who you are, what you do for a living, and then something that you are grateful for at the present moment?

Jeff  

Well, I do a number of things. Because ultimately, I'm seduced by ideas and things that really engage me. I have a film production company, I do commercials, I do branded content, and tell brand stories done that for clients such as Ralph Lauren, Victoria's Secret, Harvard School for public health, the American Academy of Dramatic Arts, a number of different, very eclectic mix of people. I'm a teacher, I'm an adjunct professor at Parsons School of Design, teach a course called creative careers making a living with your ideas, and wrote a book that was published by Hachette and was an Amazon best seller of the same name. And I'm a playwright, I have a play that is opening in June in Chicago called Personality, the Lloyd Price musical about Rock and Roll Hall of Fame icon Lloyd Price. So I do a number of different things. And what I'm grateful for is I'm grateful for being in good health, that my family is in good health. I'm grateful for the relationships that I have with people that I grew up with literally. And I feel that relationships and good health are the most important things in life.

Ryan  

Yeah, it's funny you say that because I'm actually listening to a podcast right now by Ed My let, his most recent one about this long-standing study on happiness. And it boils down to like, the big answer is not the success and the money and a lot. It boils down to how deep of relationships you have in your life, not necessarily how many friends but how deep those friendships are. Right? So it's funny, so that, I told you, I might ask you some questions. That's not my normal one. And here we go. I'm going to start off with, that's not what I would normally ask because I listen to you talk about all the things that you do. And I'm in the marketing world. I don't do exactly what you do. But, I have some understanding of the pressure and deadlines and just expectations that you have to meet in your retirement. This is across multiple businesses. How do you handle that pressure?

Jeff  

It's interesting because of the pressure on me in terms of work, you know, I'm under pressure to raise money for my play, right? How do I deal with that? I tried to establish as many touchpoints as possible so that I could accomplish that task and relieve the pressure. But honestly, the real pressure in life comes to me if someone I deeply care about is struggling, especially health-wise. That's the important thing, you know, money comes and goes, time only goes. And so, for me, I try to put things in context. And how big of a deal is this really well, a friend is dealing with kind of a difficult life issue. And I'm very present in that now. Because I have a couple of friends that are dealing with that, that really gets my attention, there's nothing I can do other than offer emotional support. And sometimes I can offer contact support to get them into a particular doctor or something like that. But the day-to-day pressures in business, in comparison, for me and the way that I look at life, are relatively small. If I'm dealing with pressures in business and so on, those are problems that can be dealt with. And, so, I look at life as a real horizon, if you will, and what contexts the problems are in. How solvable are those problems? Because there are certain things, you know, COVID shut us down. Nothing I could do about it. Right? So what am I going to do to drive myself nuts? Now, I'm going to do what I can that brings me pleasure and allows me to be productive. So a lot of us just really think of things from a 360 point of view to figure out what's the best way to make the next steps. But I'm not plagued by day to day pressure of business and all of that sort of thing. Because I guess at this point, I've been in business so long, that's just, you know, it's just a part of it. Yeah,

Ryan  

that's, you have a lot of perspective from all you've gone through and, and you're right, though, like just zooming out and like, you know, you're dealing with a problem in the grand scheme of things in the grand scheme of the universe and like it's like a tiny, tiny In a tiny, tiny, tiny blip on the radar of life, and so just pushing through it, and I like how you mentioned pouring into others too because I'm sure that that gives your life a lot of fulfillment, correct?

Jeff  

That's right. Oh, absolutely. And for me, you know, fulfillment is a huge part of what I'm willing to devote my time to. Is this something that is fulfilling? Is this something I like doing? And unfortunately, you know, at this point, in my life, I'm in the financial position to be really discretionary in terms of what I'll devote my time to. And that's, you know, after decades of hard work and doing that. So, fulfillment, I think, is the real fuel for my curiosity. And what we've already talked about, and I think it's huge in business and huge in personal development, as you mentioned, is not just a number, or necessarily the number of relationships you have, but how deep and how meaningful are those? And among those relationships? Are there those people that, if the shits hitting the fan at three in the morning, can you call that friend and talk?

Ryan  

Yes, that is funny. Can funny you said that? Because that's one of the questions I said in the study, they were asked these participants, it's like a study that went through like, at over like, it's still going, but 85 years or something like that. And the main question is, if you're, something's happening, like, you need someone at three o'clock in the morning, how many people can you call that time that will help you? And that's how he defined a deep friendship.

Jeff

Right? It knows what to do.

Ryan  

So what's the topic for filming for with almost one more second, one more minute? Is there anything else you do? I mean, you live in New York City. You live in a great area. So there are probably lots of things you can fill your cup up with. There's anything else you do to feed your happiness or fulfillment, whatever word you want to use.

Jeff  

Yeah, spending time with friends, spending time with my kids and my wife and doing things with other people. But also, every day, I try to get in about seven miles of walking. And I do that walking. I take pictures and post them every day to keep my visual chops going for the other work that I do. And I enjoy doing that. So, you know, I'm always looking, always framing pictures. And that brings me joy, too I love doing that. And just finding what I'll call New York City moments as I walk around and take pictures. And that feeds me. Monday night, I went with a bunch of friends. We went to hear my favorite band and is just joyous. I love music, in particular, live music, in more intimate venues. And so that was really great. So hanging out with friends, listening to music, having a bite to eat, that kind of thing is really fun to me. So all those things that are fun like that also bring a kind of fulfillment because you're enjoying yourself with other people.

Ryan  

And all seems to center around, besides the relationships part, it all seems that center around like the Creative Arts, which makes sense, given your background. I want to pull some tips from you on that front. And then I want to talk about your morning routine. I know you don't necessarily have one, but I want to have better routines, and maybe there are some things we can pull out from your morning. Let's stay on the topic of creativity for a second for the entrepreneurs listening and really, really for anyone listening because I think it's important for everyone. Are there any tips you have or exercises that you personally follow or recommend to get the creative juices flowing?

Jeff  

Yeah, there are. And I want to dispel a myth Ryan from the get-go on this. A lot of people believe they're either left or right brain. Right, the right brain being creative spatial left brain being more verbal and logical. That's not, first of all, a true metric. That came from studies that were done by a neuropsychologist, Roger Sperry back in the 60s. He won the Nobel Prize in 1981 for split-brain theory. But it never had anything to do with creativity or personality traits. It's where certain functions are located in the brain. That was even before the field of neuroplasticity came to some maturity. And brain imaging wasn't very sophisticated during the 60s and late 50s When he was doing these studies. So a lot of people say Oh, I'm right-brained, but I'm not left-brained or left-brained. I'm not creative. And that is all a myth. And a lot of people limit themselves by buying into that idea that either they're so creative, but they're not in the business, or they're so into business, but they're not creative. And I'm a big believer in not limiting yourself, especially when what your the narrative you're creating for yourself about that isn't even true in terms of cognitive neuroscience. So creativity, I believe the way you foster it is by exposing yourself to as many things as possible, reading books, going to conferences, talking to new people, talk to people you don't agree with. But just listen. Listening is really important than always worrying about trying to win your point. Listen to the other person because that also fosters collaborative thinking. And collaborative thinking, for instance, in my life in theater, and filmmaking, is absolutely essential. And so the more dots that you put into your brain by going to museums, going to shows, taking a walk, but paying attention to your surroundings, doing all of these different things that are constantly feeding stimulus to your brain creates more of these dots, if you will, that you can connect to new and unique ways to express your creativity.

Ryan  

I love that it's super actionable. It's something you can something anyone can do. You know, exposing yourself to new things, trying new things. It sounds fun, too, honestly.

Jeff  

It is, you know, it's funny because I have always avoided routine. You know, routine to me was, you know, there are certain things, of course, you have to do, you know, we talked a little before you started recording about going on a morning routine. And yeah, I mean, I have one when I get up and go to the bathroom and brush my teeth, and I make a protein drink for breakfast and that sort of thing. That's, that's as close to as a routine. And I get an exercise every day at some point, you know, I get into some vigorous exercise. And that's really important to me. But I don't have set routines. Because I like always being, I don't even know how to say it really, but in a way, a little bit off balance so I have to be vigilant in paying attention. And so I like the spontaneity of getting that curveball that I've got to deal with, having to answer a question that I didn't know was coming, or engage in an activity that I hadn't planned for. And that just opens up, I think, so much more if you can also allow yourself within whatever routines you set up to also be spontaneous and flexible.

Ryan  

I understand what you're saying. Because I even though I'm obviously this is the morning upgrade podcast, and I've had a morning routine forever. But to be honest, I need some diversity as well. So even though I have a set morning routine, or even though I have a morning routine, it changes quite frequently. My morning routine now is different than it was three months ago. And so I just, I want the morning routine, but I need the diversity. Because I find myself, it gets boring if it's the same thing every time. And so yeah, I understand what you're saying. Diversity is important.

Jeff  

Well, my maybe my routine is not having a routine. And mixing it up. And if you're changing your routine often, then it's not really a routine, isn't it?

Ryan  

That's a little brain twister there. Jeff, I've got one last question for you. I have a feeling based on these 15 minutes we've been talking, I have a feeling I know what you're gonna say. But I just want to, I still want to hear your answer. And maybe I want to hear how you package it. And it's the topic of the meaning of life. Because, you know, it's I know, it changes, it can change for someone, and it's a personal experience, but through your personal lens and all the experiences you've had thus far, in your opinion, what is the meaning of life?

Jeff  

Well, that's certainly the age-old question, Ryan, one that I think one answers differently at different stages of life, too I think the consistent meaning of life, to me, has been an enrichment. One gains the depth of the relationships that they haven't maintained.

Ryan  

And how do you personally reach out to people? Do you have any structure around strengthening those relationships? Because you know, you have kids at work and multiple businesses, it gets busy, and it's it gets harder to strengthen those relationships. What do you do well in that area to keep it going?

Jeff  

Well, first of all, it's not to say don't screw up at times. You could If you interviewed my wife, you would find that I certainly screw things up too. But I'll tell you, I'll give you an example. This is kind of fun. When the lockdown started with COVID. I grew up in Akron, Ohio, and there were two streets, and those two streets are where there were probably 18 of us kids around the same age. And you can always is like a little rascal, and you can go out and play at any time you can go out and play and do stuff. Well, most of those people had not talked to each other for close to 50 years. And I decided I put together a Zoom call, and I was able to get 15 people from the neighborhood where we grew up all together on a Zoom call that went on for four hours. It was a total blast, it was so much fun. And I sent everybody copies of it. So that was an example of reaching out. Because I don't mind reaching out, some people just don't do that, you know. And when you see that, oh, we got to get together, we got to get together, and then it just evaporates, and nobody gets together. I always follow up and always do those things. Because I gain pleasure from that contact and what we're doing, and realize that what's most important to me isn't a protocol of, well, who followed up? Well, they didn't call me back. It's getting it done. And so I think, again, with those relationships, reaching out, there's also maintenance that's involved. So you stay in touch. And you also listen. And listening is critically important to building relationships. Because if a person doesn't feel heard, and I don't care if it's in business, or if it's with your kids, or your partner, or wife, or whatever, that relationship is not going to grow. So I think building trust, listening, and also reaching out and being proactive are all really important.

Ryan  

Great advice, Jeff. I really, really enjoyed this conversation. If someone wants to reach out to you to connect with you or learn more, where should we send them?

Jeff  

I'd say the best place is to look me up on LinkedIn. Because on LinkedIn, I post some of the great knowledge that is shared from my class from the number of terrific guests that I've had. You can also go to a creative career on Instagram, creative career.com, or Madoff productions.com and see my video work or see the work that I do about creative careers is the best place to start. Perfect. Thanks, Jeff. Great job. Thank you, Ryan enjoyed it.

Announcer  

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