Champion's Mojo for Masters Swimmers
The award-winning podcast for Masters swimmers, adult athletes, and health and wellness seekers striving for personal excellence. Join your host, world-record-setting Masters swimmer, former NCAA Division I swim coach, best-selling author and health coach Kelly Palace, as she dives into inspiring stories, expert insights, and proven strategies to help you unlock your champion mindset. A podcast that champions you!
Champion's Mojo for Masters Swimmers
60-Mile Shark Swim: How Lewis Pugh Toughs It Out to Save Our Oceans, EP 280
On May 26, 2025, Lewis Pugh completed one of his most daring feats yet — a 60-mile swim around Martha’s Vineyard in icy, shark-filled waters. Undertaken to coincide with the 50th anniversary of movie Jaws, Lewis’s swim was a powerful statement to change the narrative about sharks and raise urgent awareness for ocean conservation. While this swim captured headlines, the deeper story lies in Lewis’s relentless mission to protect our planet’s most fragile ecosystems.
In this powerful re-release of one of our most inspiring conversations to date, Lewis reveals what truly drives him to swim in the world’s most extreme conditions — from the North Pole to Antarctica — and how he uses courage, purpose, and diplomacy to create real change. If you want to understand how one person can push past fear, endure the impossible, and help save the oceans, this is the interview you need to hear.
Lewis Pugh, the UN Patron of the Oceans and only person to complete long-distance swims in every ocean on Earth, shares his extraordinary journey of swimming in Earth's most extreme waters to raise awareness for ocean protection and climate change. Through his pioneering "speedo diplomacy," Lewis has helped create marine protected areas covering approximately two million square kilometers while developing powerful mindsets for facing seemingly impossible challenges.
• Swimming in sub-zero waters where "every part of you says get out immediately"
• Using extreme cold water swims to demonstrate the reality of climate change
• Following the Japanese martial arts concept of "shuhari" to master swimming and advocacy
• Creating marine protected areas like "national parks for the oceans"
• Applying "speedo diplomacy" to influence government policies on ocean conservation
• Building self-belief by "stacking" different sources of confidence before difficult challenges
• Finding your purpose by "drilling deep" until you discover what you were truly meant to do
• Using "fuss bait" (holding tight) when facing life's most difficult challenges
• Taking responsibility as swimmers to be stewards for ocean protection
Lewis believes we have a duty to protect this magnificent place for our children and grandchildren, and if people do that, then we have a future.
Whether you're a competitive swimmer, an environmental advocate, or simply someone searching for purpose, Lewis Pugh's journey offers profound inspiration. Listen now to discover how courage can be trained like a muscle, how persistence can change the world, and how finding your purpose can transform the seemingly impossible into reality.
Email us at HELLO@ChampionsMojo.com. Opinions discussed are not medical advice, please seek a medical professional for your own health concerns.
You feel that water as soon as you dive in. I can barely breathe, I'm gasping for air. That water just grips its way around you and holds you like a vice. Every single stroke is very, very difficult to take. Every single part of you is saying get out of here immediately. You're in a death zone and you've got to persuade your mind that actually you can do this and that you need to start swimming, but swimming fast.
Speaker 2:Hello friends, welcome to the Champions Mojo podcast. I'm your host, kelly Pallas, and this is where we celebrate the extraordinary stories of champions who inspire us with their passion, comebacks and journeys we can all learn from. We can all learn from. On May 26, 2025, lewis Pugh became the first person to swim around Martha's Vineyard, completing the 60-mile-long journey over 12 days in 47-degree waters, while navigating through rough winds and the lurking threat of great white sharks. Undertaken during the 50th anniversary of the movie Jaws, his swim was a bold statement to change the narrative around sharks and raise the urgent awareness for their protection, reminding us that a world without sharks is a world where the oceans are out of balance. If you are new to Lewis Pugh, he's the only person to have completed long-distance swims in every ocean on Earth. His TED Talks and YouTube videos have garnered over 9 million views.
Speaker 2:His autobiography Achieving the Impossible was chosen for Oprah Winfrey's exclusive book list, and he serves as the United Nations Patron of the Oceans. Lewis is a pioneer, a protector and a powerful voice for our planet and, of course, an extraordinary swimmer. Today, we rediscover the mindsets that made these feats and so many more possible, revealing how courage, fear and fierce purpose drive Lewis to swim where no one else dares. All to save the oceans before it's too late. And after approaching 300 interviews here on Champions Mojo, this remains the most inspiring conversation we've ever had. Here's Lewis, with previously unheard moments and reflections that still give us chills. And now our interview with Lewis Pugh Lewis. Welcome to the Champions Mojo podcast.
Speaker 1:Thank you very, very much. It's wonderful to be here.
Speaker 2:So Lewis flew in today from South Africa. So we are just, we're sitting in Boston in this great hotel and he's come in to give a speech tonight and work on his cause. He's tireless. He doesn't just swim, these big swims, but he gets on planes and goes talks with important people about what's going on in the world. And I'm going to start with a simple question first for you, Lewis. So, as a fellow swimmer, I have dived into my share of cold oceans, lakes or pools, and my morning routine is my freezing cold showers. But cold water is truly one of the most uncomfortable things that I think we can experience as a human. It's just blastedly unpleasant, even painful. So how do you convince yourself to get in and to stay in these dangerously cold waters for a long time?
Speaker 1:Let's just put cold into perspective. If I had one last day left on this earth, where would I want to swim? I'd like to swim in the middle of the Indian Ocean in nice, warm water. So I don't gravitate. I don't gravitate towards cold water. No, I do it. There's a certain thrill in it and it's very, very challenging. But the reason why I swim in the extreme cold stuff is because these parts of the world are changing very, very quickly, and so I'm getting in there to show the world what is happening. So I'm doing swims in places which until very recently were completely frozen over. So it tells a very clear story about the health of the planes and the speed of change.
Speaker 3:How do you get in there? You've got to have a very, very driving purpose and self-belief as well. In listening to your TED Talks and reading about you, I'm aware that every time you do this it's really, really hard. I think people can say, oh, it's Lewis Pugh, he's different than the rest of us. But you have talked about courage and you say that courage is a muscle that you have to work. Can you talk about that a little bit?
Speaker 1:Yeah. So some journalists say well, lewis has this thing called anticipatory thermogenesis. Just to quickly explain that, to break the word down, anticipatory before thermo heat genesis creation. So this is before I get into cold water. We've noticed that my core body temperature rises quite significantly in temperature by about 2 degrees centigrade. It becomes a solid, and as soon as you start swimming below 0 degrees centigrade, something happens.
Speaker 1:And so people say oh well, what's the difference between swimming at 0 degrees centigrade and minus 1.7? It is the difference between walking in the foothills of the Rockies and climbing Mount Everest in the middle of winter on your own. It is quantumly different. It is extremely painful. You feel that water as soon as you dive in. I can barely breathe. I'm gasping for air. That water just grips its way around you and holds you like a vice. Every single stroke is very, very difficult to take. Every single part of you is saying get out of here immediately. You're in a death zone and you've got to persuade your mind that actually you can do this and that you need to start swimming, but swimming fast.
Speaker 2:By swimming fast.
Speaker 1:Yeah Well, I mean you need to move fast. You can't dilly-dally in that type of water.
Speaker 3:Would you be able to do it without this purpose?
Speaker 1:I don't think so. I don't think so. I mean, for me it's become what I get up for in the morning or what I go to bed at night thinking about. As I said earlier, I've been swimming for 30 years. In that period of time, which in terms of swimming is a long career swimming for 30 years, but in terms of the history of the world it's a nanosecond In that short period of time I've seen our oceans change hugely. I mean just to give you an example when I trained to do that swim across the North Pole, I trained on the edge of the Arctic ice packs on a little island in the top of Norway. It was 1,000 kilometers to the North Pole and I trained on the edge of the Arctic ice and the water was three degrees centigrade. I went back there two years ago. The water is no longer three, it's now 10 degrees centigrade.
Speaker 2:Oh, my goodness.
Speaker 1:So that's a speed at which the Arctic, now in the Norwegian sector, is changing because of climate change. It's runaway climate change, and when you see that you have a choice, the choice is very, very simple You're either going to do something about it or you're not going to do something about it. I felt that I should stand up and be a voice for the oceans and for the incredible wildlife that live in these regions, who rely on us now to make good decisions and to get the Earth back into its healthy state.
Speaker 2:That's truly, truly amazing. So you once said that you were done with cold water swimming. Was that just how tough it was when you came out of that?
Speaker 1:When you've been really cold I mean really cold, never, ever quite warmed up again.
Speaker 2:Wow.
Speaker 1:That's amazing.
Speaker 2:I wish people could see the look in his eyes when he says that.
Speaker 1:So I did a swim a few years ago down in Antarctica where the water temperature was minus 1.7, and the air temperature was minus 37 degrees centigrade minus 1.7. And the air temperature was minus 37 degrees centigrade. I'll never forget it because we're in the most remote part of Antarctica. We've sailed for two, two and a half weeks from the bottom of New Zealand. So if you're going to compete in the Olympic Games, you know that you're going to be competing on the 5th of August at 4pm in the 100 metres freestyle, 5th of August at 4pm in the 100m freestyle, and you know exactly what you need to do to get yourself ready for that specific moment. So we've sailed and we don't even know whether we're going to be able to get to the swim site, because we're sailing through some of the most dangerous seas on this earth. We've sailed from 40 degrees south to 50 to 60 to 70. And now on the distance is this enormous, great ice shelf. I want you to imagine the White Cliffs of Dover. Okay, that's what it was like, but it's ice, it's a Ross ice shelf. And you've got these strong katabatic winds coming down from the South Pole coming over this and ice just coming down from this ice shaft into the water and the water is freezing cold, minus 1.7. So nobody's ever swum there before. I don't get into the water unless somebody does a quick recce of the water to see what's in the water. So I said to my wife I said, antoinette, would you please get into a small zodiac and go along the edge of the ice there and make sure there are no killer whales in the water, no leopard seals in the water. I don't want to be swimming with either of them and I'll never forget it in my whole life.
Speaker 1:Because she was lowered in a small zodiac into the sea and a wave hit it up against the side of the zodiac and water splashed up and it turned into ice mid-air and hit us. And then she went up and down for half an hour that's the minimum amount of time that's required to make sure there are no animals in the water. She came back into the cabin and she was absolutely frozen. And then she looked at me and she said we're ready. And so that moment you've got, you know, a serious question to ask it are you now prepared to get into that water for your belief? And uh, I'll never forget diving into that water because so the water's minus 1.7, but you pull your hand out and your hand is going from minus 1.7 to minus 37. So you almost want to put it back in quickly. It's a very extreme environment in which to operate.
Speaker 3:My stomach is just in a night. I know, I know I'm thinking about it.
Speaker 2:I'm thinking about a hot cup of tea. How do you train so this? You're saying that this is not something unique to you, that you truly train hard to get your body ready to do this. What are some of the just like big chunks of training that you do to prepare for this?
Speaker 1:Let me take a step back. Do you know about the Japanese concept of shuhari?
Speaker 2:No, what is it Okay?
Speaker 1:So my chief of staff is Japanese and he talks to me about shuhari. Shuhari are the three stages one goes through in mastering anything, and it comes from Japanese martial art. Shu means learn the law, ha means break the law and ri means make the law. So for the first 10 years of our swimming career, it was just shu, it was just learn the law, obey the law. Every single day, down to the swimming pool, down to the beach and swim with my coach, kevin Fjalkov, and just try and make every single stroke as perfect as it is as it could ever be Long stroke, relaxed stroke, take a deep breath of fresh air, repeat. And that was 10 years and I found that the most difficult of these three stages, because there's no choice of individualism there. There's no choice to. You know how many coaches want to work with somebody who doesn't really want to. You know, obey the law. Every single coach wants you to obey the law. But then we move into the second stage of my career, which was the ha, which means break the law. This came very naturally to me. I loved it.
Speaker 1:Maybe, I think at the time I was serving as a reservist in the special air service, which is the British special forces, your equivalent of US Navy SEALs, where you're taught that breaking the law is actually not a bad thing. You need to be pushing boundaries. But also because I was living in South Africa and the people who went out to live in South Africa generally there were people who didn't want to live in the United Kingdom because of all the rules and regulations. There was a colonial spirit out there. So this stage of my life was absolutely great.
Speaker 1:This was where I had a new coach. His name was Brian Button. He said to me Lewis, take lane four, and all I want you to do, lewis, is just swim, and you just go for it. And I believe in you. And you know, when he said I believe in you and he'd coached, he was 75 years old at the time. When he said to me I believe in you, well, I believed in myself and I started pushing boundaries and breaking every single law that I could break. If there was a harbour master who said I couldn't swim through his harbour, I swam past his harbour and it was at this stage where I was becoming an environmental activist.
Speaker 1:And so if there was a government official who said I couldn't do something, well, I would push ahead and do it, and it was at a time when social media was becoming very active and you know, I could really start pushing boundaries. But then the final stage these last 10 years, is the re-stage. It's a stage where now you start making the law stage. It's a stage where now you start making the law. So now I go and swim down in the Ross Sea, in Antarctica, and now I go to Russia to negotiate the creation of this big protected area. And for 17 years government officials from the United States and from various other countries have been trying to persuade Russia to join the rest of the community and protect this area, and all of them have failed. But I believe that I can make the law.
Speaker 1:I can pull it off and I can begin to make the law. And you walk into those negotiations with a feeling that I'm coming in here to make the law not out of arrogance, but out of humility, out of I believe that we can do this because it's right for all of us. And when you get to that stage, very, very few things become impossible to achieve.
Speaker 2:That is just. I've got goosebumps. That is amazing.
Speaker 1:So and when you gain that kind of respect, when you, when you put your life on the line and say I'm willing to do this for the oceans, then I would imagine that a Russian called Slava Fetisov Slava Fetisov Americans will have heard of because he was this great Soviet ice hockey player who was the first of the great Russians to come and play ice hockey here in America. The Russian officials who had to make the decision that they were going to join the rest of the world to create this protected area down in the Ross Sea. It was astonishing because as soon as I arrived in Russia, you know, I was put on state television. I was introduced to everybody and I couldn't understand this because, you know, I'd come from Britain. We're traditional Cold War enemies. We had grown up in very, very different environments.
Speaker 1:When I went out to South Africa up in very, very different environments. When I went out to South Africa as a young man, I'd served in the South African military. At the time we were fighting Soviet forces in Angola and here I was, walking into the Kremlin. I said to him. I said, Slava, why is it that the Russians have been so welcoming to me? He said you know, lewis, your message is very, very simple. Your message is about coming here, building bridges, protecting the environment. It's about listening, he said. That transcends everything. You haven't come here to cause trouble. You've come here to try and solve a problem and that's why the door is open. So you know, with any of these negotiations, there's a promised land. You just need to find it.
Speaker 3:Wow. Your swims have transcended what other people can do and anybody who sees a video of you pulling yourself out of the water onto a piece of ice in the North Pole or Antarctica, they have to stop and listen and they're calling it speedo diplomacy and it's amazing. I'm sort of interested in your coach that gave you encouragement and you said in one of your videos that you had sort of a bad swim prior to your North Pole swim and he came into the room and said I've seen you train. Your purpose is important. You will succeed. Have courage, we're going to take care of you. And that changed everything for you. How important was this encouragement from others in your success?
Speaker 1:It's interesting because, if I go back to the beginning of my life, I was very lucky with my parents. I had very, very loving parents. They didn't push me, but they didn't pull me, they just supported me, if that makes sense. So certainly in the swimming community you do see some parents who are very, very pushy. In community you do see some parents who are very, very pushy, others who do everything for their children and others who sometimes hold them back by sharing their limiting beliefs with their children. My parents did none of that. They just said, Lewis, if you enjoyed, crack on, and it's wonderful to see you enjoying it. And they were always very, very supportive.
Speaker 1:But when it came to actually putting the swims together, when it came to the fundraising, I had to do all that myself, and that is tough. So this is the Olympic Games, where USA Swimming is now going to provide the sponsorship for you and the funding for you to go and compete in the Olympic Games. I now had to learn how to raise the money, learn how to do interviews with the media, learn how to put a whole team together and now start getting a yacht or a boat and start sailing to the most remote parts of the planet. My parents didn't lay out any money for me. They were very warm and encouraging, but the support was there, but they weren't pushing me and that was absolutely instrumental in creating a person who felt comfortable.
Speaker 3:It sounds like you have created an amazing team. You've surrounded yourself with people who help you to do what you do. I mean, you are absolutely doing the hard work, but how did you do that? How did you find these amazing teammates?
Speaker 1:I'm always hunting new members of the team, not so that I can get rid of old members of the team, but I'm always looking to see where I can get the very, very best people. Here's the point Courage is contagious, but equally, fear is contagious. If I'm standing on the edge of the ice and I'm just about to die in and I see fear on anybody's face, that'll ripple through me within seconds and debilitate me. But if I'm standing on the edge of the ice and I'm about to dive in and everybody is looking confident and there's a fixed mindset that we're going to start at the beginning and we're going to go all the way to the end, we're going to get out and then we're going to have a hot shower afterwards. I'm going to get in there with a lot of confidence.
Speaker 1:So I always look for various things with the members of my team. I'm looking for people who, in their personal lives, are courageous people. So, for example, the doctor who was with me at the North Pole. He's going to have to be the most courageous person, because if something goes wrong there, everyone's going to say well, what on earth did you think? Why do you think that this person could do it? But equally, every single person in the team has to be courageous.
Speaker 1:I'm also looking for people who love to push boundaries. I'm looking for people who are optimistic realists not pessimists, not cynics, not daydreamers. Optimistic realists, people who say let's roll up our sleeves and let's give this a very good go. And, lastly, I'm looking for people who realize that time is finite, that we're facing an emergency now, that we're now in a race against time to save the planet, and so we've got a mission and we must we must act with the sense of urgency. But also people who realize that, that our lives are finite and that we have a choice about how we're going to spend each and every day of our lives. And this is how I and, I hope, all the members of my team we want to spend our lives, which is being a voice for our oceans.
Speaker 2:So you have a Antarctica hashtag Antarctica Tell us about that.
Speaker 1:Well, we're trying. So next year is the 200-year anniversary of the discovery of Antarctica, and Antarctica is the most amazing continent I mean. When you arrive in Antarctica, it's like arriving in the Garden of Eden and you stand on the edge there and you see emperor penguins and king penguins and Adelies and all these amazing, amazing animals and whales in the water. Really it's a beautiful place but it's under threat. We're trying to get a series of protected areas around Antarctica. These are like national parks, but in the water. So no drilling for oil, no drilling for gas, no industrial fishing, just allowing nature to recover.
Speaker 1:We got the first of these big protected areas set aside two years ago in the Ross Sea. Now we're trying to get a very big one set aside now, uh, in an area called east antarctica, and so that's that's, uh, that's what I'm focused on now. And remember I spoke to you about how important it is to have courageous people in your team. Well, the russian slava fatisov. He'll be coming with me down to antarctica shortly, where he will be seconding me during a very tough swim, which I plan to do early next year down in Antarctica.
Speaker 2:What is your planned swim for that?
Speaker 1:We're going to keep it quiet, but straight afterwards we go to Moscow and we'll be in Moscow on the 200-year anniversary of the discovery of Antarctica. It was discovered, actually, by a Russian explorer called Admiral Billingshausen, and we're going to be urging the Russian government and the Chinese government, who are the two governments who still need to be persuaded that we need to protect East Antarctica. We're going to be urging them now to sign this deal and if we do that, we'll be creating an area about a million square kilometers, fully protected. It's amazing, it's it's a a true privilege to be able to do this type of work, to be able to create the very, very big protected areas. So my team, over the past couple of years, we've we've set aside or being able to create protected areas of about 2 million square kilometers. So there's no drilling, no drilling for oil, no drilling for gas, no industrial fishing, just allowing nature to recover. 2 million square kilometers it's about the size of Western Europe. We're happy with it, but we want more. We agreed.
Speaker 3:One of the things that I'm amazed about you is your ability to balance, looking back at your successes and saying, look, this is good, we're moving forward, and also keeping that urgency. You know there's so much more to do.
Speaker 1:Yes, I mean the English Channel swim is a really good case in point.
Speaker 1:So what I try to do is I try to find a swim which, hopefully, will capture the imagination of the public, and it's got to be tough, it's got imagination of the public and it's got to be tough, it's got to be. I mean, it's got to be really, really hard. And so I thought what could I do in the United Kingdom to try and persuade the UK government to properly protect its waters? Just to put this in perspective only seven square kilometres of waters around the UK are fully protected. I mean seven square kilometres. The waters around the UK are 750,000 square kilometers, of which just seven square kilometers is fully protected. And I thought I mean this is, without stressing the point too much, I mean it's an outrage, I mean it really is. And so let me think about a swim which I could do, and obviously in the United Kingdom, swimming across the English Channel. So swimming from England to France is an amazing swim. So what I do is I put out a map of the United Kingdom and I'm just looking at it, looking at it, looking at it and just trying to think of an idea of a swim which may work. And that's the thing about creativity it doesn't come automatically. You've got to keep looking, keep writing down all the various options and then suddenly an idea will come and then you'll think to yourself it's not an aha moment, it's an erdo moment. It's why did I not think about this swim years ago? And I was looking at the map and I suddenly thought hold on, why don't I swim the full length of the English Channel? So not across it, but hundreds and hundreds of people have swum across it. I want to swim the full length of the English Channel. So not across it, but hundreds and hundreds of people have swum across it. I want to swim the full length. So I'll start at Land's End and I'll swim all the way to Dover 528 kilometers. And nobody had ever done a swim of sort of that length and that water temperature before. And just to explain, so we haven't explained this in, you know, in this podcast. You know I do all my swims in just a speedo cap and goggles, even those ones in in the arctic and down in antarctica. But I was, I must say there was a lot of trepidation about whether I could actually swim 528 kilometers. Anyway. I decided I'm going to this. I really want to draw this to the attention of the British government and the British public. And so I took a train.
Speaker 1:I all went down to Land's End, which is the beginning of the English Channel, and there I made three promises to myself. I said number one we've got to leave our doubt here on the beach at Land's End, because if we don't, as soon as I get injured and you know, on a long swim like that you're going to get your niggles. I said I need to leave my doubts here. Number two second rule every single day is going to be a swimming day. I'm going to swim 10 kilometers. Every day, come hell or high water, I'm going to swim 10 kilometers. And the third promise I made to the team was that if we couldn't take the yacht out because it was so extreme, the following day would be 20 kilometers. Oh my gosh. And that's the way we got to the end.
Speaker 1:And so, 49 days later, absolutely, absolutely exhausted, I arrived in Dover and on the beach was Michael Gove, who is the Secretary of the State for the Environment. And you know I was exhausted, but now you're going to have. It was live on television. I'm going to have a debate with him about probably protecting the UK waters. But that was the beginning of it. So I've done the swim. I've done 49 days of swimming.
Speaker 1:It was another six to nine months of hard negotiations with the British government before we really started getting results. Before they agreed to further protect some of the British overseas territories. So down near Antarctica there's an island called South Georgia. They agreed to do a lot more protection down there Ascension Island in the middle of the Atlantic Ocean, the big protected area around there. They agreed to announce a climate emergency in the United Kingdom. They agreed that the UK would go what we call net zero, so no carbon emissions, net zero by 2050. Big ambitious steps, but it was only by constantly pushing them, constantly in the media, calling them out for lack of action, that we were able to get these things across the line.
Speaker 3:So which was harder the swim or the negotiations?
Speaker 1:They're different. They're different in hardness. I remember with the negotiations with the Ross Sea. I'd been negotiating for nearly two years and, just to explain, I'm the United Nations ambassador for the oceans, but I'm expected to pay the expenses myself. It's a long story why that is the case, but I was running out of money. It's all out of my own pocket. I'm flying to Moscow. I'm sitting in a hotel waiting to meet Russian officials, and then I came to a stage where I thought you know, these negotiations have gone on for 17 years. How much longer can we carry on? And I called my wife and I said to her Antoinette, I think we're going to have to call it a day because I'm going to bankrupt the family. She said I just want you to do another six months. And then it was astonishing. A number of different things happened and within a short period of time, the tide had turned and Russia signed the deal. The point is, you never ever know how close you are to achieving a deal.
Speaker 2:So I understand more. Now is the idea of national parks for the oceans.
Speaker 1:There we go.
Speaker 2:The United States we have tons of beautiful parks, we preserve the trees, but I so connect with that idea of a national park or a state park or a local park for the oceans. I think that's a great idea.
Speaker 1:So about 150 years ago the great big national parks were being created and they started here in America. You know the Yellowstone National Park and Yosemite, these really big ones, and it's amazing. I mean, imagine what North America or any other country would be like today if the people at the time, the pioneers at the time, didn't have the foresight to properly protect these areas. They'd be gone, be gone forever. That's the situation where we find ourselves now in the oceans. About 2% of the ocean is fully protected and now we're pushing to try to get 30% fully protected.
Speaker 1:So around the waters around America is doing fairly well. America has fully protected, and when America fully protects, they do a good job. America has fully protected 20, and when America fully protects, they do a good job. America has fully protected 20% of its waters Still nowhere near enough. But you look at some of the other countries like China less than 1%, Japan, less than 1%, India, less than 1%, South Africa, less than 1%. Around the UK, it's a mixed bag. So with its overseas it's got lots of islands all over the world from its empire over 30% fully protected, but in its home waters seven square kilometers. So this is a big fight now which we're having, which is getting governments to realize that we're now in a race against time. We now need to create these big protected areas around the world, and it's a privilege to work in this space.
Speaker 2:So, lewis, I'd love for our listeners to get to know you a little more on a personal level, because obviously you're a champion, and we'd love to know if you have any routines or rituals or things that you do on a daily basis that help you be so successful.
Speaker 1:I don't really see myself like that, because in order to achieve these swims, there's been a lot of hurdles and I've fallen at many of them, but nonetheless I like to wake up early in the morning. I like to make my bed first thing in the morning and make it properly, because at least I got one job done nicely and I like to come back to a nice made-up bed. I try to do my swimming very, very early in the morning, before any of the work. You know, the negotiations start during the day and I try to make every day a swimming day, every day.
Speaker 2:So I try to make every day a swimming day, every day. So you swim every day.
Speaker 1:I do my very best. I mean, it's not always possible just because I do an awful lot of traveling, but I try to, I try to. But I certainly spend a fair amount of time probably half an hour every day focusing on these big dreams which we have to create. You know, to set aside 30% of the world's oceans fully protected by 2030. So I'm constantly dreaming and imagining and moving the chess pieces in my mind about how we can get various governments to agree these deals.
Speaker 2:Does that come in the form of meditation or journaling, or visualization, or what does that period of time each day look like?
Speaker 1:It's the easiest part of the day because it's just lying on the bed and listening to soft music and it's imagining.
Speaker 3:That's fantastic that reminds me I had a question.
Speaker 1:You listen to music. I know at least before you do your cold water swims Is that part of your anticipatory used to listen to very heavy rap and, you know, aggressive music. Now, the older I get the more I get in quite gently and just swim with a purpose. So I enjoy listening to some softer music these days.
Speaker 2:What might that be? What would be an example?
Speaker 1:You know I love soundtracks to various sort of to movies. Anything sort of from Hans Zimmer will get me ready for the day and get me ready for that specific moment. But the most important thing is that you've got to get yourself to a stage where you believe that this is what you were meant to do with your life.
Speaker 3:Yeah, that part I love. Okay, so purpose what advice would you give in terms of using your purpose or finding your purpose, so that you can be motivated to do these great things?
Speaker 1:If I can give you an analogy you know, coming from South Africa, let me give you a mining analogy. Some people, when they're looking for gold, they're very, very lucky. They go down to a river and they put a pan in a river and they pan and they suddenly they find a nugget of gold. It's like that in life. Some people are very, very lucky. They know very, very early on that they wanted to be a doctor. And you ask them when they were a young girl, maria, what did you want to become? And you say I want to become a doctor. And you ask them when they were a young girl, maria, what did you want to become? And you say I want to become a doctor. And you've always known that. And then you meet them 30 years later, they're a doctor and they're very, very happy. For the vast majority of us, though, that's simply not the case. We've got to drill deep down into ourselves. In mining analogy, often you have this thin strata of gold deep down and many people dig and they dig and they dig, but they never quite get down to that strata of gold. And when you hit that strata, you know it. You know that you found what really is your purpose and then you just need to mine right the way along that line. Keep on going, keep on going. So that's that's what I would encourage so many people. They mine, but they never quite get down to what they were meant to do with their lives. And once you've identified it and once you really tapped into it, it becomes a very, very powerful force. But what I do before all these swims is in my mind. I stack things Just to explain this.
Speaker 1:It's about self-belief. For some people, your self-belief comes from the inside. You're just so gifted at what you do that you believe in yourself. It's the Muhammad Alis of the world, right, but the vast majority of us, our self-belief does not come from the inside. Okay, in fact, very, very few even Olympic athletes very few of them does their self-belief come from the inside. For most of us, it comes from the outside. It's a parent or a teacher or a coach who says to you you're really good at what you do, and when you hear that you believe in yourself, for others it's operating in an elite team. When you join an elite team, you then have to step up to that standard and then, when you step up to that standard, you start believing yourself For other people.
Speaker 1:Your self-belief comes from experience in life. I always see this with mountaineers enjoy climbing mountains. You know, you climb one mountain, you think I can get to the top, and then you go even higher the next year, and even higher the next year, and then you find out that somebody's about to climb Everest and they say I can climb Everest because I got all this experience. But there's a last form of self-belief which, if you tap into it, it takes your performance onto another level altogether, and the sad thing is very it takes your performance onto another level altogether, and the sad thing is that very, very few people actually tap into it. And that is what we're talking about tapping into your purpose. It's.
Speaker 1:You know, growing up in South Africa at the end of apartheid, there were no shortages of role models.
Speaker 1:We're talking about people like Nelson Mandela, desmond Tutu, molly Blackburn, people who, despite everything they were going through, they kept on going and they kept on going because that is what they were meant to do with their lives. So now, just before I'm going to get into very, very cold water, I stack in my mind all these forms of self-belief. So I start with the fact that, in terms of self-belief from the inside, I realize I can handle cold better than most people. I then go to the outside and I remember that coach of mine, brian Button, who always believed in me, and when he believed in me, I believe in myself. I've been now operating with this team for many, many years and I get so much courage out of them. I look back at my career of 33 years and I realize I've done some very, very tough swims. And then, lastly, I walk to the end of my life and I realize that this is what I was meant to do and I better make it count. And then I die. Then.
Speaker 2:That deserves a moment of silence.
Speaker 3:I know I don't even know what to say. That is the most beautifully put thing I have ever heard.
Speaker 2:I don't even know what to say. That is the most beautifully put thing I have ever heard. Yes, I'm just mesmerized. And this Lewis seems to be summing up our shows that we've done with champions on stacking and self-belief and mental toughness and inner dialogue and mindset and all of these things. It's truly I've got goosebumps and we're not in the cold waters.
Speaker 1:Can I just say this yes.
Speaker 1:I love climbing, I love swimming, but the sport which I really love is kayaking. And I had the privilege a couple of years ago to train with the South African Olympic kayaking team, who were training just before the Beijing Olympics. So I trained with them in Budapest and we'd be kayaking every day up and down the Danube River. And it was amazing because I've always been a swimmer.
Speaker 1:But once I finished the swimming, then I've got to do, which is a negotiation, but it was very interesting to be in the world of professional sport because you know, everyone would wake up early and then I would have the first training session and we would hammer ourselves up and down the Danube doing really fast intervals, and then we'd come back and then everybody would shower and then everybody would have breakfast, and then it was amazing, people would just get onto the social media and they're texting their friends and they're listening to some music, and then they have a little bit of a sleep, and now suddenly it's the afternoon, and now we've got the second session, and then maybe there's some physio, and then maybe there's an evening dinner and then I'll go straight to bed.
Speaker 1:And I just looked at this and I thought, and really realizing that you had this one opportunity to really deliver and stacking all this self-belief and so that when you get into the water you absolutely believe in yourself. You absolutely believe in yourself. Um, yeah, so I think, the world of professional sport. But a lot of time is spent on on the physical aspects, but actually drilling down deep into your soul, not enough time is spent on that couldn't agree with you more.
Speaker 2:that is something. That's one of the reasons we started the podcast is to get into the minds of champions and the mojo you know it's a term, I don't know if you know it, but it's the special little secret sauce.
Speaker 3:Well, and what I'm hearing you say, lewis, is that you know we're given gifts and we can use those gifts for a purpose other than just competing and winning those gifts for a purpose other than just competing and winning. You know we can. You know and you have laser-focused your gifts on saving the world's oceans, and I think that's a call-out to every one of us who has a gift. You know what are we doing with our gifts. I'm incredibly motivated by what you've said.
Speaker 2:Yes and inspired.
Speaker 1:I'm incredibly motivated by what you've said, yes, and inspired. To have a gift and then not to use it is such a waste. But this is one of the great equalities in life, and you remember at school those people who were so talented and then they really didn't go on to do much, and those with less talent did a lot. It's one of the greater qualities in life. Those with the most amount of talent often have the least amount of ambition, and those with less talent often have bundles of determination and ambition, and those two things put together become a very, very powerful force.
Speaker 3:You can develop both.
Speaker 1:I think you can develop both. Yeah, we have this concept in South Africa called fuss bait, and it comes from the Dutch word meaning fuss, meaning tight, and bait meaning bite, bite hard. I want you to imagine a lioness running along the felt in Africa and she's running after a big buffalo and she grabs that buffalo on the top of the neck and then swings down underneath and she's holding on while this buffalo is still charging along and she's holding on and she's being dragged along the felt and she holds on because that is what she was meant to do, because if she doesn't hold on, the whole pride is in danger. And sometimes in life you need that fuss bait. It doesn't have to be there every single day, but there are going to be moments when you just have to dig deep and hold on tight. So fuss bait is grit, it's resilience, it's never die, it's just keep on going.
Speaker 1:And I think what I'm seeing, especially now with younger people, that they're looking for instant success. But it doesn't come like that. I spoke about Shu Hari. It's taken me 30 years to get to this position. Success doesn't come instantly. It comes through fuss bait. It comes through years and years of grind and then it looks like it's overnight success because suddenly people hear about it and they don't see what's happened behind the scenes.
Speaker 2:Fantastic. Well, Lewis, I know you've got a speech to give tonight and we want to give you the opportunity, as your last question, to say what can our listeners do to help preserve the oceans?
Speaker 1:We rely on our oceans totally to survive, and there are three big things now impacting our oceans it's climate change, it's overfishing and it's plastic pollution. I'm seeing plastic pollution over every beach in the world, even down in Antarctica and the Arctic. It's devastating. But if there's one thing which really is of those three, which is so significant, it's the impact of climate change. It's really devastating our oceans. I would just say, please, please, do every single thing that you can to live a lifestyle which protects the environment and which is a low-carbon lifestyle, because we have a duty to protect this magnificent place for our children and our grandchildren, and if people do that, then we have a future. If we don't do that, then we're on a serious trajectory right now.
Speaker 2:There's like also 20 things that people can do. There's a place to donate, there's a lot of resources that if people want to really become serious about this and we should all of us, as swimmers, need to protect the oceans then they can go to your website. Is there anything that we haven't asked you or covered that you want listeners to hear or know?
Speaker 1:I think that as swimmers, as kayakers, as windsurfers, as dog walkers, as people who want to walk along the beach, we all have a special responsibility to be good custodians of the oceans. And we think of swimming in pools as environmentally friendly, perhaps, but swimming pools has a very, very big impact on the environment, obviously with the amount of water we use, all the chemicals that are used, etc. Etc. We have a very special responsibility as swimmers, as a community, to be right at the forefront of protecting the environment and encouraging others to do it, and examining ourselves as a sport and seeing what we can do to really be leaders in this movement. So that would be my last wish.
Speaker 2:I love it Now. So this is something we do on all of our guest interviews and I just we have to dig a little deeper on you personally, and this is called the speed round of questions. And it's just a little fun thing so we can get to know you better. Yeah, lighthearted way to end this Lighthearted way to end this. I say one or two choices and you just give me one choice Cat or dog.
Speaker 1:Dog any day.
Speaker 2:Camping or hotel.
Speaker 1:Camping any day. Milk chocolate or dark chocolate? These are the easiest questions I've had Milk chocolate, chocolate.
Speaker 2:Okay, now, this one may not even apply to you, but our swimmers are going to want to know it. Kickboard or no kickboard.
Speaker 1:Oh no, I think a good kickboard really helps with training.
Speaker 2:Okay, kickboard. Yeah unexpected there, mountains or beach.
Speaker 1:Now, that's the tough ones. Oh, for God's sake. And I tell you the reason why because people often say, oh, I'd love to go to the beach because it's so peaceful and so calming.
Speaker 1:But beaches are very, there's noise, et cetera. But when one goes right up into the mountains so especially I've done some climbing high up in the Himalayas and been on Everest and when one's up on Everest and one looks down into the valleys and through the Glaciers, it's very, very peaceful and there you'll find a window into your soul if you spend the time there. So I'm going to take both.
Speaker 2:I love it. I'm going to take beaches and mountains there. Okay, now your football is going to be soccer, yes, and cricket instead of baseball. European football or American football?
Speaker 1:That's an easy one European. Okay, iphone or Android iPhone, iphone or Android iPhone.
Speaker 2:Coffee or tea.
Speaker 1:Probably tea.
Speaker 2:Tea and you've already answered morning person or a night owl.
Speaker 1:Definitely a morning person.
Speaker 2:Texting or talking.
Speaker 1:Definitely talking.
Speaker 3:Okay, maria, here's my last good book you read or listened to.
Speaker 1:I'm reading a ridiculous law book at the moment, so it's on the law of the sea.
Speaker 3:That sounds awful.
Speaker 1:I'm sorry, you're a maritime lawyer right. Yes, I'm a maritime lawyer, so it was a maritime law book, so maritime law book. Okay, last good movie it doesn't sound fascinating, but it's a great book.
Speaker 3:Last good movie.
Speaker 1:I loved. I watched the one about Elton John, about his life, called Rocket man, recently. Oh no. And what Sir Elton John has been through in his life has been quite astonishing, and he's a pioneer. I love all pioneers. I love people who are prepared to push boundaries and go for things, and so it's a beautiful movie.
Speaker 2:Love Elton John, love him Favorite food.
Speaker 1:Mexican.
Speaker 3:Favorite place to swim. That's probably a tough one.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I think I've just been swimming in the Maldives. The Maldives are a group of islands right in the middle of the Indian Ocean. When you dive in there, it's like diving onto the set of Nemo. Underneath you are all these beautiful tropical fish, coral of beautiful colors, small sharks, manta rays and turtles. So if I had one last day left on this earth.
Speaker 2:And it's a warm water temperature right.
Speaker 1:And it's warm water and there's no such. So people say, oh, that must be too warm for you when you've swum in the water I've swum in, there's no such thing as too warm. So that's probably where it would be the Maldives.
Speaker 3:That's nice. This last question I want to ask is I don't even based on what you've said, I wonder if you even do it. But how do you relax? Do you relax?
Speaker 1:I struggle, and the reason why I struggle is because I'm constantly thinking, constantly pushing, and sometimes you only achieve things when you get into that angst and you can't get out of it and you've got to keep pushing, keep pushing, keep pushing and eventually the solution will arrive. And recently I found myself constantly in that, Uh, I I've got four dogs. I love to go walking in the afternoons with them on the beach in in in Cape Town. But, uh, relaxing is a thing, which thing which I need to work at.
Speaker 2:What kind of dogs?
Speaker 1:Oh, I've got everything. So I've got a Jack Russell, who's the boss, I've got a Rhodesian Ridgeback, who's gorgeous, I've got a Husky Cross something, and then I've got a Sheepdog Cross something. All of them are special.
Speaker 2:Are any of them swimmers?
Speaker 1:The Jack Russell is. She's a little swimmer.
Speaker 2:Very cool, very cool. Well, those are all the questions that we have. You did great on the tough ones and great on the little fun, easy ones.
Speaker 3:Yeah, this has been so inspiring. I've got three pages of notes. Thank you so much for taking the time to inspire our listeners.
Speaker 2:Lois, it's been wonderful.
Speaker 1:Ladies, thank you both very, very much. It's been an honor to be on your podcast. Thank you.
Speaker 2:Thank you and best of luck in saving our oceans and with all your swims. We'll be watching and cheering for you.
Speaker 3:Yeah, we'll be following along and supporting in any way we can. Absolutely.
Speaker 1:Thank you so much.
