{"version":"1.0.0","segments":[{"speaker":"James Morris","startTime":0.33,"endTime":2.64,"body":"So thanks so much"},{"speaker":"James Morris","startTime":0.33,"endTime":2.64,"body":"for joining me, Chelsey, could"},{"speaker":"James Morris","startTime":2.64,"endTime":5.67,"body":"you start just by telling me a"},{"speaker":"James Morris","startTime":2.64,"endTime":5.67,"body":"bit about your story? You know,"},{"speaker":"James Morris","startTime":5.67,"endTime":8.22,"body":"how you started drinking? And"},{"speaker":"James Morris","startTime":5.67,"endTime":8.22,"body":"what kind of happened"},{"speaker":"James Morris","startTime":8.22,"endTime":8.91,"body":"thereafter?"},{"speaker":"Chelsey Flood","startTime":9.05,"endTime":12.65,"body":"Yeah, of course."},{"speaker":"Chelsey Flood","startTime":9.05,"endTime":12.65,"body":"So I started drinking very"},{"speaker":"Chelsey Flood","startTime":12.65,"endTime":17.33,"body":"early, when I was 11, which I"},{"speaker":"Chelsey Flood","startTime":12.65,"endTime":17.33,"body":"now feel is alarmingly early."},{"speaker":"Chelsey Flood","startTime":17.36,"endTime":20.42,"body":"But at the time, I was just"},{"speaker":"Chelsey Flood","startTime":17.36,"endTime":20.42,"body":"thrilled about it. And it's"},{"speaker":"Chelsey Flood","startTime":20.42,"endTime":23.72,"body":"interesting, you say, how did"},{"speaker":"Chelsey Flood","startTime":20.42,"endTime":23.72,"body":"you how did drinking come into"},{"speaker":"Chelsey Flood","startTime":23.72,"endTime":26.39,"body":"your life, and I realised, I"},{"speaker":"Chelsey Flood","startTime":23.72,"endTime":26.39,"body":"don't know how it came into my"},{"speaker":"Chelsey Flood","startTime":26.39,"endTime":28.94,"body":"life. And I think that's part of"},{"speaker":"Chelsey Flood","startTime":26.39,"endTime":28.94,"body":"the problem that drink has"},{"speaker":"Chelsey Flood","startTime":28.94,"endTime":33.08,"body":"always been for me, which is"},{"speaker":"Chelsey Flood","startTime":28.94,"endTime":33.08,"body":"that it was just omnipresent."},{"speaker":"Chelsey Flood","startTime":33.17,"endTime":38.09,"body":"And the adults around me really"},{"speaker":"Chelsey Flood","startTime":33.17,"endTime":38.09,"body":"enjoyed a drink. And so I"},{"speaker":"Chelsey Flood","startTime":38.12,"endTime":44.24,"body":"couldn't wait to join in, I"},{"speaker":"Chelsey Flood","startTime":38.12,"endTime":44.24,"body":"think. And yeah, like I said, At"},{"speaker":"Chelsey Flood","startTime":44.24,"endTime":48.47,"body":"the start, it was just really"},{"speaker":"Chelsey Flood","startTime":44.24,"endTime":48.47,"body":"good fun. And it was a cause for"},{"speaker":"Chelsey Flood","startTime":48.62,"endTime":53.09,"body":"adventure. And I loved the way"},{"speaker":"Chelsey Flood","startTime":48.62,"endTime":53.09,"body":"it made me feel. I just had a"},{"speaker":"Chelsey Flood","startTime":53.09,"endTime":58.4,"body":"great time. And I was very"},{"speaker":"Chelsey Flood","startTime":53.09,"endTime":58.4,"body":"silly. And I was very in the"},{"speaker":"Chelsey Flood","startTime":58.4,"endTime":63.53,"body":"present. And I was able to be"},{"speaker":"Chelsey Flood","startTime":58.4,"endTime":63.53,"body":"centre stage in my life. And I"},{"speaker":"Chelsey Flood","startTime":63.53,"endTime":65.75,"body":"thought that was just really"},{"speaker":"Chelsey Flood","startTime":63.53,"endTime":65.75,"body":"thrilling. So that was when I"},{"speaker":"Chelsey Flood","startTime":65.75,"endTime":68.9,"body":"was 11. And then I guess, after"},{"speaker":"Chelsey Flood","startTime":65.75,"endTime":68.9,"body":"that, because it had been so"},{"speaker":"Chelsey Flood","startTime":68.9,"endTime":71.9,"body":"exciting. I wanted to replicate"},{"speaker":"Chelsey Flood","startTime":68.9,"endTime":71.9,"body":"it. And then there was a period"},{"speaker":"Chelsey Flood","startTime":71.9,"endTime":74.63,"body":"where I remember having a bit of"},{"speaker":"Chelsey Flood","startTime":71.9,"endTime":74.63,"body":"a reputation with my friend's"},{"speaker":"Chelsey Flood","startTime":74.63,"endTime":76.79,"body":"parents as being a bit of a bad"},{"speaker":"Chelsey Flood","startTime":74.63,"endTime":76.79,"body":"influence, which I did find"},{"speaker":"Chelsey Flood","startTime":76.79,"endTime":78.74,"body":"quite upsetting at the time,"},{"speaker":"Chelsey Flood","startTime":76.79,"endTime":78.74,"body":"because I had been a very good"},{"speaker":"Chelsey Flood","startTime":78.74,"endTime":81.41,"body":"girl. But also I had this new"},{"speaker":"Chelsey Flood","startTime":78.74,"endTime":81.41,"body":"exciting thing, and I wanted to"},{"speaker":"Chelsey Flood","startTime":81.41,"endTime":84.5,"body":"show people and introduce people"},{"speaker":"Chelsey Flood","startTime":81.41,"endTime":84.5,"body":"and I didn't think it was bad in"},{"speaker":"Chelsey Flood","startTime":84.5,"endTime":88.58,"body":"any way. I just thought it was"},{"speaker":"Chelsey Flood","startTime":84.5,"endTime":88.58,"body":"fun. And and then I suppose it"},{"speaker":"Chelsey Flood","startTime":88.58,"endTime":91.76,"body":"quite quickly turned to more"},{"speaker":"Chelsey Flood","startTime":88.58,"endTime":91.76,"body":"obviously problematic binge"},{"speaker":"Chelsey Flood","startTime":91.76,"endTime":96.29,"body":"drinking on the park. I think a"},{"speaker":"Chelsey Flood","startTime":91.76,"endTime":96.29,"body":"lot of kids in the UK do that."},{"speaker":"Chelsey Flood","startTime":96.32,"endTime":99.62,"body":"So again, it felt very normal."},{"speaker":"Chelsey Flood","startTime":96.32,"endTime":99.62,"body":"And I also find it difficult to"},{"speaker":"Chelsey Flood","startTime":99.62,"endTime":103.25,"body":"say when I realised it was a"},{"speaker":"Chelsey Flood","startTime":99.62,"endTime":103.25,"body":"problem, because I didn't for a"},{"speaker":"Chelsey Flood","startTime":103.25,"endTime":106.07,"body":"long time, but a very small part"},{"speaker":"Chelsey Flood","startTime":103.25,"endTime":106.07,"body":"of me did. And when I looked"},{"speaker":"Chelsey Flood","startTime":106.07,"endTime":108.86,"body":"through my notebooks, I've"},{"speaker":"Chelsey Flood","startTime":106.07,"endTime":108.86,"body":"always kept notebooks as a"},{"speaker":"Chelsey Flood","startTime":108.86,"endTime":112.25,"body":"writer that's been a constant in"},{"speaker":"Chelsey Flood","startTime":108.86,"endTime":112.25,"body":"my life, really. And when I look"},{"speaker":"Chelsey Flood","startTime":112.25,"endTime":115.07,"body":"through them, I am often talking"},{"speaker":"Chelsey Flood","startTime":112.25,"endTime":115.07,"body":"about needing to give up"},{"speaker":"Chelsey Flood","startTime":115.07,"endTime":118.67,"body":"drinking, needing to drink less"},{"speaker":"Chelsey Flood","startTime":115.07,"endTime":118.67,"body":"being horribly hungover and"},{"speaker":"Chelsey Flood","startTime":118.7,"endTime":121.58,"body":"recognising that this isn't"},{"speaker":"Chelsey Flood","startTime":118.7,"endTime":121.58,"body":"really a good way to spend my"},{"speaker":"Chelsey Flood","startTime":121.58,"endTime":125.15,"body":"time and I should be doing other"},{"speaker":"Chelsey Flood","startTime":121.58,"endTime":125.15,"body":"things. When I was in my teens,"},{"speaker":"Chelsey Flood","startTime":125.21,"endTime":127.55,"body":"there's a lot of me talking"},{"speaker":"Chelsey Flood","startTime":125.21,"endTime":127.55,"body":"about how my life has gone off"},{"speaker":"Chelsey Flood","startTime":127.55,"endTime":132.77,"body":"the rails, and I need to get it"},{"speaker":"Chelsey Flood","startTime":127.55,"endTime":132.77,"body":"back on the rails. But I suppose"},{"speaker":"Chelsey Flood","startTime":132.83,"endTime":136.25,"body":"I didn't really know how to. And"},{"speaker":"Chelsey Flood","startTime":132.83,"endTime":136.25,"body":"I actually quit drinking when I"},{"speaker":"Chelsey Flood","startTime":136.25,"endTime":140.93,"body":"was 33. So there was a long time"},{"speaker":"Chelsey Flood","startTime":136.25,"endTime":140.93,"body":"of me realising and not"},{"speaker":"Chelsey Flood","startTime":140.93,"endTime":144.41,"body":"realising that it was a problem."},{"speaker":"Chelsey Flood","startTime":140.93,"endTime":144.41,"body":"And there was a lot of me trying"},{"speaker":"Chelsey Flood","startTime":144.41,"endTime":149.54,"body":"to get a handle on it. So trying"},{"speaker":"Chelsey Flood","startTime":144.41,"endTime":149.54,"body":"to control my drinking, trying"},{"speaker":"Chelsey Flood","startTime":149.54,"endTime":154.19,"body":"to drink just the right amount"},{"speaker":"Chelsey Flood","startTime":149.54,"endTime":154.19,"body":"to be fun, and be able to access"},{"speaker":"Chelsey Flood","startTime":154.73,"endTime":157.28,"body":"the full technicolour of my"},{"speaker":"Chelsey Flood","startTime":154.73,"endTime":157.28,"body":"personality, which I didn't feel"},{"speaker":"Chelsey Flood","startTime":157.28,"endTime":162.65,"body":"able to do when I was sober, but"},{"speaker":"Chelsey Flood","startTime":157.28,"endTime":162.65,"body":"not to go into blackout or not"},{"speaker":"Chelsey Flood","startTime":162.65,"endTime":167.21,"body":"to end up somewhere that I"},{"speaker":"Chelsey Flood","startTime":162.65,"endTime":167.21,"body":"wouldn't have chosen to go or"},{"speaker":"Chelsey Flood","startTime":167.24,"endTime":169.88,"body":"not to have the problems. So I"},{"speaker":"Chelsey Flood","startTime":167.24,"endTime":169.88,"body":"was constantly trying to get"},{"speaker":"Chelsey Flood","startTime":169.88,"endTime":173.75,"body":"that right. And I was always"},{"speaker":"Chelsey Flood","startTime":169.88,"endTime":173.75,"body":"swearing off one drink, you"},{"speaker":"Chelsey Flood","startTime":173.75,"endTime":176.12,"body":"know, like, Oh my god, I can't"},{"speaker":"Chelsey Flood","startTime":173.75,"endTime":176.12,"body":"drink jack daniels, because"},{"speaker":"Chelsey Flood","startTime":176.12,"endTime":179.84,"body":"that's just really, jack daniels"},{"speaker":"Chelsey Flood","startTime":176.12,"endTime":179.84,"body":"makes me so crazy, or you know,"},{"speaker":"Chelsey Flood","startTime":179.84,"endTime":182.42,"body":"Jen, or whatever it was, and"},{"speaker":"Chelsey Flood","startTime":179.84,"endTime":182.42,"body":"then I wouldn't be allowed to"},{"speaker":"Chelsey Flood","startTime":182.42,"endTime":185.18,"body":"drink that anymore. But I would"},{"speaker":"Chelsey Flood","startTime":182.42,"endTime":185.18,"body":"never recognise this pattern"},{"speaker":"Chelsey Flood","startTime":185.21,"endTime":189.95,"body":"until I went to aa when I was"},{"speaker":"Chelsey Flood","startTime":185.21,"endTime":189.95,"body":"33. And that's when I started to"},{"speaker":"Chelsey Flood","startTime":189.95,"endTime":194.21,"body":"learn about drinking and"},{"speaker":"Chelsey Flood","startTime":189.95,"endTime":194.21,"body":"alcoholism as they call it"},{"speaker":"Chelsey Flood","startTime":194.24,"endTime":198.8,"body":"there. And my education around"},{"speaker":"Chelsey Flood","startTime":194.24,"endTime":198.8,"body":"it really began because I've"},{"speaker":"Chelsey Flood","startTime":198.8,"endTime":201.77,"body":"somehow managed to completely"},{"speaker":"Chelsey Flood","startTime":198.8,"endTime":201.77,"body":"swerve knowing anything at all"},{"speaker":"Chelsey Flood","startTime":201.77,"endTime":205.28,"body":"about alcohol, which I think is"},{"speaker":"Chelsey Flood","startTime":201.77,"endTime":205.28,"body":"quite fascinating. I had a very"},{"speaker":"Chelsey Flood","startTime":205.67,"endTime":208.76,"body":"stark lack of understanding"},{"speaker":"Chelsey Flood","startTime":205.67,"endTime":208.76,"body":"around anything to do with"},{"speaker":"Chelsey Flood","startTime":208.76,"endTime":212.99,"body":"alcohol, which was really"},{"speaker":"Chelsey Flood","startTime":208.76,"endTime":212.99,"body":"confusing to start to recognise."},{"speaker":"Chelsey Flood","startTime":212.99,"endTime":215.6,"body":"And I suppose that's why I've"},{"speaker":"Chelsey Flood","startTime":212.99,"endTime":215.6,"body":"become very interested in this"},{"speaker":"Chelsey Flood","startTime":215.6,"endTime":218.3,"body":"area and where I've started a"},{"speaker":"Chelsey Flood","startTime":215.6,"endTime":218.3,"body":"whole blog about it, because it"},{"speaker":"Chelsey Flood","startTime":218.3,"endTime":221.03,"body":"was like, I had to completely"},{"speaker":"Chelsey Flood","startTime":218.3,"endTime":221.03,"body":"reinvent myself to quit"},{"speaker":"Chelsey Flood","startTime":221.03,"endTime":223.7,"body":"drinking. And I hadn't really"},{"speaker":"Chelsey Flood","startTime":221.03,"endTime":223.7,"body":"expected that when I when I"},{"speaker":"Chelsey Flood","startTime":223.7,"endTime":227.33,"body":"rocked up to AA quite casually"},{"speaker":"Chelsey Flood","startTime":223.7,"endTime":227.33,"body":"in a way that time. I mean, I"},{"speaker":"Chelsey Flood","startTime":227.33,"endTime":229.61,"body":"didn't even know I was going for"},{"speaker":"Chelsey Flood","startTime":227.33,"endTime":229.61,"body":"myself, I partly thought I was"},{"speaker":"Chelsey Flood","startTime":229.61,"endTime":231.56,"body":"just going for my partner"},{"speaker":"Chelsey Flood","startTime":229.61,"endTime":231.56,"body":"because I recognised he had a"},{"speaker":"Chelsey Flood","startTime":231.56,"endTime":234.44,"body":"drink problem. So I suppose the"},{"speaker":"Chelsey Flood","startTime":231.56,"endTime":234.44,"body":"message that's coming across"},{"speaker":"Chelsey Flood","startTime":234.44,"endTime":238.1,"body":"here is that I actually found it"},{"speaker":"Chelsey Flood","startTime":234.44,"endTime":238.1,"body":"all very confusing. And I find"},{"speaker":"Chelsey Flood","startTime":238.1,"endTime":241.94,"body":"it quite difficult still five"},{"speaker":"Chelsey Flood","startTime":238.1,"endTime":241.94,"body":"years after getting sober to"},{"speaker":"Chelsey Flood","startTime":241.94,"endTime":245.0,"body":"completely clearly talk about"},{"speaker":"Chelsey Flood","startTime":241.94,"endTime":245.0,"body":"it. And I'm also really aware"},{"speaker":"Chelsey Flood","startTime":245.0,"endTime":247.76,"body":"that the drinking we would be in"},{"speaker":"Chelsey Flood","startTime":245.0,"endTime":247.76,"body":"disagreement with this sober me."},{"speaker":"Chelsey Flood","startTime":247.79,"endTime":251.3,"body":"So I'm putting on with"},{"speaker":"Chelsey Flood","startTime":247.79,"endTime":251.3,"body":"hindsight, why am I drinking was"},{"speaker":"Chelsey Flood","startTime":251.3,"endTime":253.61,"body":"a problem, whereas for many"},{"speaker":"Chelsey Flood","startTime":251.3,"endTime":253.61,"body":"years, I would have just said I"},{"speaker":"Chelsey Flood","startTime":253.61,"endTime":254.48,"body":"love to drink."},{"speaker":"James Morris","startTime":254.94,"endTime":257.16,"body":"Yeah, there's so"},{"speaker":"James Morris","startTime":254.94,"endTime":257.16,"body":"much I can relate to in that,"},{"speaker":"James Morris","startTime":257.16,"endTime":259.8,"body":"you know, there's this this idea"},{"speaker":"James Morris","startTime":257.16,"endTime":259.8,"body":"of what they call the drinkers"},{"speaker":"James Morris","startTime":259.8,"endTime":263.28,"body":"dilemma, you know, drinkers or"},{"speaker":"James Morris","startTime":259.8,"endTime":263.28,"body":"heavy drinkers have, you know,"},{"speaker":"James Morris","startTime":263.28,"endTime":266.94,"body":"very aware of the positives,"},{"speaker":"James Morris","startTime":263.28,"endTime":266.94,"body":"they know why they like alcohol"},{"speaker":"James Morris","startTime":266.94,"endTime":270.15,"body":"and drinking and all the"},{"speaker":"James Morris","startTime":266.94,"endTime":270.15,"body":"benefits, but they also at least"},{"speaker":"James Morris","startTime":270.15,"endTime":273.78,"body":"on some level tend to be aware"},{"speaker":"James Morris","startTime":270.15,"endTime":273.78,"body":"of the downside and that maybe"},{"speaker":"James Morris","startTime":273.78,"endTime":277.98,"body":"it's problematic in some way or"},{"speaker":"James Morris","startTime":273.78,"endTime":277.98,"body":"will become so if if that kind"},{"speaker":"James Morris","startTime":277.98,"endTime":280.92,"body":"of pattern of drinking goes on."},{"speaker":"James Morris","startTime":277.98,"endTime":280.92,"body":"And then of course, that's"},{"speaker":"James Morris","startTime":280.95,"endTime":284.01,"body":"perhaps tied to the you know,"},{"speaker":"James Morris","startTime":280.95,"endTime":284.01,"body":"the idea of cognitive dissonance"},{"speaker":"James Morris","startTime":284.01,"endTime":287.91,"body":"when you have two conflicting"},{"speaker":"James Morris","startTime":284.01,"endTime":287.91,"body":"beliefs, you know, we we need to"},{"speaker":"James Morris","startTime":287.91,"endTime":291.21,"body":"kind of eliminate one so that we"},{"speaker":"James Morris","startTime":287.91,"endTime":291.21,"body":"own you know, we just have one"},{"speaker":"James Morris","startTime":291.21,"endTime":295.14,"body":"idea in our heads that is"},{"speaker":"James Morris","startTime":291.21,"endTime":295.14,"body":"consistent with our behaviour."},{"speaker":"James Morris","startTime":295.14,"endTime":298.56,"body":"So, we don't want to sort of"},{"speaker":"James Morris","startTime":295.14,"endTime":298.56,"body":"believe that alcohol is both"},{"speaker":"James Morris","startTime":298.59,"endTime":301.44,"body":"good and bad. We just kind of"},{"speaker":"James Morris","startTime":298.59,"endTime":301.44,"body":"Want to believe that it's one or"},{"speaker":"James Morris","startTime":301.44,"endTime":301.95,"body":"the other?"},{"speaker":"Chelsey Flood","startTime":302.37,"endTime":304.2,"body":"Yeah, it's quite"},{"speaker":"Chelsey Flood","startTime":302.37,"endTime":304.2,"body":"sweet really, isn't it? I think"},{"speaker":"Chelsey Flood","startTime":304.2,"endTime":307.83,"body":"that also the bad things that"},{"speaker":"Chelsey Flood","startTime":304.2,"endTime":307.83,"body":"happen when we're drinking tend"},{"speaker":"Chelsey Flood","startTime":307.83,"endTime":313.2,"body":"to stay secret or between you"},{"speaker":"Chelsey Flood","startTime":307.83,"endTime":313.2,"body":"and one other person. And so"},{"speaker":"Chelsey Flood","startTime":313.47,"endTime":316.68,"body":"that sort of gets to stay"},{"speaker":"Chelsey Flood","startTime":313.47,"endTime":316.68,"body":"uncovered. Whereas the good"},{"speaker":"Chelsey Flood","startTime":316.68,"endTime":319.77,"body":"things that happen are happening"},{"speaker":"Chelsey Flood","startTime":316.68,"endTime":319.77,"body":"out in the lights in public. And"},{"speaker":"Chelsey Flood","startTime":319.77,"endTime":322.62,"body":"so we're kind of we cultivate"},{"speaker":"Chelsey Flood","startTime":319.77,"endTime":322.62,"body":"that in each other, like, I want"},{"speaker":"Chelsey Flood","startTime":322.62,"endTime":327.33,"body":"to see my problem drinker"},{"speaker":"Chelsey Flood","startTime":322.62,"endTime":327.33,"body":"friends, in the early stages of"},{"speaker":"Chelsey Flood","startTime":327.33,"endTime":330.48,"body":"their drinking night, because"},{"speaker":"Chelsey Flood","startTime":327.33,"endTime":330.48,"body":"there are loads of fun, but, you"},{"speaker":"Chelsey Flood","startTime":330.48,"endTime":332.76,"body":"know, take one of them home, and"},{"speaker":"Chelsey Flood","startTime":330.48,"endTime":332.76,"body":"you might, you might have a"},{"speaker":"Chelsey Flood","startTime":332.76,"endTime":335.52,"body":"completely different situation"},{"speaker":"Chelsey Flood","startTime":332.76,"endTime":335.52,"body":"on your hands. But yeah, that's"},{"speaker":"Chelsey Flood","startTime":335.52,"endTime":338.34,"body":"the sort of the underbelly isn't"},{"speaker":"Chelsey Flood","startTime":335.52,"endTime":338.34,"body":"of the drinking world."},{"speaker":"James Morris","startTime":338.39,"endTime":342.02,"body":"And when you said"},{"speaker":"James Morris","startTime":338.39,"endTime":342.02,"body":"you kind of first went to a you"},{"speaker":"James Morris","startTime":342.02,"endTime":344.81,"body":"said it was more because you"},{"speaker":"James Morris","startTime":342.02,"endTime":344.81,"body":"felt you were kind of scoping it"},{"speaker":"James Morris","startTime":344.81,"endTime":347.66,"body":"out because of your partner's"},{"speaker":"James Morris","startTime":344.81,"endTime":347.66,"body":"drinking, but but there was"},{"speaker":"James Morris","startTime":347.66,"endTime":350.63,"body":"something where you were perhaps"},{"speaker":"James Morris","startTime":347.66,"endTime":350.63,"body":"thinking about it in terms of"},{"speaker":"James Morris","startTime":350.63,"endTime":352.01,"body":"your own alcohol use as well?"},{"speaker":"Chelsey Flood","startTime":352.07,"endTime":356.09,"body":"Yeah, I had read"},{"speaker":"Chelsey Flood","startTime":352.07,"endTime":356.09,"body":"a few books by them about people"},{"speaker":"Chelsey Flood","startTime":356.09,"endTime":359.57,"body":"getting sober. So I was started"},{"speaker":"Chelsey Flood","startTime":356.09,"endTime":359.57,"body":"starting to be very interested"},{"speaker":"Chelsey Flood","startTime":359.57,"endTime":364.16,"body":"in that narrative. And so I'd"},{"speaker":"Chelsey Flood","startTime":359.57,"endTime":364.16,"body":"read about a few women who start"},{"speaker":"Chelsey Flood","startTime":364.16,"endTime":366.92,"body":"to get sober. And I think I just"},{"speaker":"Chelsey Flood","startTime":364.16,"endTime":366.92,"body":"found that quite appealing. So I"},{"speaker":"Chelsey Flood","startTime":366.92,"endTime":370.85,"body":"think part of it was like my"},{"speaker":"Chelsey Flood","startTime":366.92,"endTime":370.85,"body":"natural curiosity. And the"},{"speaker":"Chelsey Flood","startTime":370.85,"endTime":373.46,"body":"writer, part of me, and part of"},{"speaker":"Chelsey Flood","startTime":370.85,"endTime":373.46,"body":"it was that little bit of me"},{"speaker":"Chelsey Flood","startTime":373.46,"endTime":375.92,"body":"that did realise it was a"},{"speaker":"Chelsey Flood","startTime":373.46,"endTime":375.92,"body":"problem, and it had been for"},{"speaker":"Chelsey Flood","startTime":375.92,"endTime":380.66,"body":"years. And then a big part of it"},{"speaker":"Chelsey Flood","startTime":375.92,"endTime":380.66,"body":"was the fact I was trying to"},{"speaker":"Chelsey Flood","startTime":380.66,"endTime":385.37,"body":"help my boyfriend at the time,"},{"speaker":"Chelsey Flood","startTime":380.66,"endTime":385.37,"body":"who I could really see the"},{"speaker":"Chelsey Flood","startTime":385.37,"endTime":389.18,"body":"problem in him. And to be"},{"speaker":"Chelsey Flood","startTime":385.37,"endTime":389.18,"body":"realistic, his drinking was much"},{"speaker":"Chelsey Flood","startTime":389.18,"endTime":392.57,"body":"more problematic than mine. So"},{"speaker":"Chelsey Flood","startTime":389.18,"endTime":392.57,"body":"that made sense as well. It"},{"speaker":"Chelsey Flood","startTime":392.57,"endTime":395.93,"body":"wasn't only denial, but when I"},{"speaker":"Chelsey Flood","startTime":392.57,"endTime":395.93,"body":"went to that first day meeting,"},{"speaker":"Chelsey Flood","startTime":395.93,"endTime":399.68,"body":"it was a very powerful"},{"speaker":"Chelsey Flood","startTime":395.93,"endTime":399.68,"body":"experience, because I heard"},{"speaker":"Chelsey Flood","startTime":399.68,"endTime":402.89,"body":"someone who was actually"},{"speaker":"Chelsey Flood","startTime":399.68,"endTime":402.89,"body":"fortunately quite similar to me,"},{"speaker":"Chelsey Flood","startTime":402.89,"endTime":406.46,"body":"and that they were, you know,"},{"speaker":"Chelsey Flood","startTime":402.89,"endTime":406.46,"body":"not a really low bottom, as they"},{"speaker":"Chelsey Flood","startTime":406.46,"endTime":410.96,"body":"say, problematically, I guess,"},{"speaker":"Chelsey Flood","startTime":406.46,"endTime":410.96,"body":"alcoholic, but someone who was"},{"speaker":"Chelsey Flood","startTime":410.96,"endTime":414.86,"body":"just just a little bit of an"},{"speaker":"Chelsey Flood","startTime":410.96,"endTime":414.86,"body":"alcoholic, and hadn't lost"},{"speaker":"Chelsey Flood","startTime":414.89,"endTime":419.69,"body":"anything, that concrete but her"},{"speaker":"Chelsey Flood","startTime":414.89,"endTime":419.69,"body":"health, her health, suffered her"},{"speaker":"Chelsey Flood","startTime":419.69,"endTime":422.15,"body":"mental health and suffered her"},{"speaker":"Chelsey Flood","startTime":419.69,"endTime":422.15,"body":"relationships and suffered, but"},{"speaker":"Chelsey Flood","startTime":422.15,"endTime":424.13,"body":"she hadn't lost a job. She"},{"speaker":"Chelsey Flood","startTime":422.15,"endTime":424.13,"body":"hadn't been to prison, she"},{"speaker":"Chelsey Flood","startTime":424.13,"endTime":427.46,"body":"hadn't lost a driving licence."},{"speaker":"Chelsey Flood","startTime":424.13,"endTime":427.46,"body":"And so I was like, Oh, that's a"},{"speaker":"Chelsey Flood","startTime":427.46,"endTime":432.68,"body":"bit like me. So I actually was"},{"speaker":"Chelsey Flood","startTime":427.46,"endTime":432.68,"body":"really able to hear that I too,"},{"speaker":"Chelsey Flood","startTime":432.68,"endTime":435.11,"body":"could get sober if I wanted,"},{"speaker":"Chelsey Flood","startTime":432.68,"endTime":435.11,"body":"even though I didn't really"},{"speaker":"Chelsey Flood","startTime":435.11,"endTime":437.81,"body":"believe I was an alcoholic at"},{"speaker":"Chelsey Flood","startTime":435.11,"endTime":437.81,"body":"all. And I didn't think my"},{"speaker":"Chelsey Flood","startTime":437.81,"endTime":442.46,"body":"drinking was that bad. But also,"},{"speaker":"Chelsey Flood","startTime":437.81,"endTime":442.46,"body":"I did cry in that meeting,"},{"speaker":"Chelsey Flood","startTime":442.46,"endTime":445.19,"body":"because there was a big part"},{"speaker":"Chelsey Flood","startTime":442.46,"endTime":445.19,"body":"that really did pass through to"},{"speaker":"Chelsey Flood","startTime":445.19,"endTime":447.95,"body":"me, because I remembered in that"},{"speaker":"Chelsey Flood","startTime":445.19,"endTime":447.95,"body":"meeting, I suppose just all of"},{"speaker":"Chelsey Flood","startTime":447.95,"endTime":451.64,"body":"the times that I had been in a"},{"speaker":"Chelsey Flood","startTime":447.95,"endTime":451.64,"body":"similar position to this, which"},{"speaker":"Chelsey Flood","startTime":451.64,"endTime":456.68,"body":"is, with a hand over sick of the"},{"speaker":"Chelsey Flood","startTime":451.64,"endTime":456.68,"body":"choices I was making, and"},{"speaker":"Chelsey Flood","startTime":456.68,"endTime":459.8,"body":"actually with yet another"},{"speaker":"Chelsey Flood","startTime":456.68,"endTime":459.8,"body":"problem drinker boyfriend,"},{"speaker":"Chelsey Flood","startTime":459.83,"endTime":462.86,"body":"because I had a few of those"},{"speaker":"Chelsey Flood","startTime":459.83,"endTime":462.86,"body":"over the years. Well, yeah,"},{"speaker":"James Morris","startTime":462.86,"endTime":465.92,"body":"I relate to that"},{"speaker":"James Morris","startTime":462.86,"endTime":465.92,"body":"in terms of AA, because I've"},{"speaker":"James Morris","startTime":465.92,"endTime":470.18,"body":"been to AA, maybe on and off for"},{"speaker":"James Morris","startTime":465.92,"endTime":470.18,"body":"a year or so after I'd stopped"},{"speaker":"James Morris","startTime":470.18,"endTime":475.07,"body":"drinking. I'd met a friend who"},{"speaker":"James Morris","startTime":470.18,"endTime":475.07,"body":"went to AA, and he kind of said,"},{"speaker":"James Morris","startTime":475.1,"endTime":478.4,"body":"well, I run this kind of"},{"speaker":"James Morris","startTime":475.1,"endTime":478.4,"body":"agnostic group, just come along"},{"speaker":"James Morris","startTime":478.43,"endTime":481.46,"body":"and I sort of thought, well, why"},{"speaker":"James Morris","startTime":478.43,"endTime":481.46,"body":"not to be interesting, even"},{"speaker":"James Morris","startTime":481.46,"endTime":484.97,"body":"though I kind of felt that I,"},{"speaker":"James Morris","startTime":481.46,"endTime":484.97,"body":"you know, I'd been I hadn't"},{"speaker":"James Morris","startTime":484.97,"endTime":487.82,"body":"drunk for several years at that"},{"speaker":"James Morris","startTime":484.97,"endTime":487.82,"body":"point. But it was, you know, I"},{"speaker":"James Morris","startTime":487.82,"endTime":490.76,"body":"did find it really valuable,"},{"speaker":"James Morris","startTime":487.82,"endTime":490.76,"body":"just in terms of the"},{"speaker":"James Morris","startTime":490.76,"endTime":493.64,"body":"identification with other"},{"speaker":"James Morris","startTime":490.76,"endTime":493.64,"body":"people, you know, even though I,"},{"speaker":"James Morris","startTime":493.73,"endTime":496.16,"body":"you know, I was always"},{"speaker":"James Morris","startTime":493.73,"endTime":496.16,"body":"uncomfortable with with the idea"},{"speaker":"James Morris","startTime":496.16,"endTime":499.52,"body":"of describing myself as"},{"speaker":"James Morris","startTime":496.16,"endTime":499.52,"body":"alcoholic or the kind of disease"},{"speaker":"James Morris","startTime":499.52,"endTime":502.31,"body":"model as such, there's"},{"speaker":"James Morris","startTime":499.52,"endTime":502.31,"body":"definitely, you know, the, the"},{"speaker":"James Morris","startTime":502.31,"endTime":506.48,"body":"kind of emotional and openness"},{"speaker":"James Morris","startTime":502.31,"endTime":506.48,"body":"of it can be very touching. And"},{"speaker":"James Morris","startTime":506.51,"endTime":509.9,"body":"you can see, I think, why that I"},{"speaker":"James Morris","startTime":506.51,"endTime":509.9,"body":"could see why that that kind of"},{"speaker":"James Morris","startTime":509.9,"endTime":513.56,"body":"spirituality side of it, you"},{"speaker":"James Morris","startTime":509.9,"endTime":513.56,"body":"know, is very important for many"},{"speaker":"James Morris","startTime":513.56,"endTime":515.78,"body":"people. And I felt like I could"},{"speaker":"James Morris","startTime":513.56,"endTime":515.78,"body":"relate to that."},{"speaker":"Chelsey Flood","startTime":516.17,"endTime":519.32,"body":"Yeah, same here,"},{"speaker":"Chelsey Flood","startTime":516.17,"endTime":519.32,"body":"and not so keen on spirituality"},{"speaker":"Chelsey Flood","startTime":519.47,"endTime":522.23,"body":"for a long time, although that"},{"speaker":"Chelsey Flood","startTime":519.47,"endTime":522.23,"body":"did start to be something that"},{"speaker":"Chelsey Flood","startTime":522.5,"endTime":526.61,"body":"has enriched my life in in some"},{"speaker":"Chelsey Flood","startTime":522.5,"endTime":526.61,"body":"way that makes no sense, even to"},{"speaker":"Chelsey Flood","startTime":526.61,"endTime":532.49,"body":"me. But the vulnerability that"},{"speaker":"Chelsey Flood","startTime":526.61,"endTime":532.49,"body":"people show that and the attempt"},{"speaker":"Chelsey Flood","startTime":532.55,"endTime":537.68,"body":"at emotional honesty was really,"},{"speaker":"Chelsey Flood","startTime":532.55,"endTime":537.68,"body":"for me exhilarating, having come"},{"speaker":"Chelsey Flood","startTime":537.68,"endTime":540.05,"body":"from a background where you"},{"speaker":"Chelsey Flood","startTime":537.68,"endTime":540.05,"body":"didn't really talk about your"},{"speaker":"Chelsey Flood","startTime":540.05,"endTime":544.82,"body":"feelings, and AA really helped"},{"speaker":"Chelsey Flood","startTime":540.05,"endTime":544.82,"body":"me start to be able to do that."},{"speaker":"Chelsey Flood","startTime":544.82,"endTime":547.82,"body":"And I just found it fascinating"},{"speaker":"Chelsey Flood","startTime":544.82,"endTime":547.82,"body":"in those early days, I felt like"},{"speaker":"Chelsey Flood","startTime":547.82,"endTime":550.88,"body":"a real tourist but I just was"},{"speaker":"Chelsey Flood","startTime":547.82,"endTime":550.88,"body":"super interested to see what was"},{"speaker":"Chelsey Flood","startTime":550.88,"endTime":551.54,"body":"going on then."},{"speaker":"James Morris","startTime":553.01,"endTime":556.22,"body":"Talking about"},{"speaker":"James Morris","startTime":553.01,"endTime":556.22,"body":"feelings is such a big thing. We"},{"speaker":"James Morris","startTime":556.25,"endTime":560.75,"body":"we know that affect regulation,"},{"speaker":"James Morris","startTime":556.25,"endTime":560.75,"body":"or kind of dealing with anxiety"},{"speaker":"James Morris","startTime":560.75,"endTime":565.22,"body":"or low mood is such a huge"},{"speaker":"James Morris","startTime":560.75,"endTime":565.22,"body":"driver of problem drinking. And,"},{"speaker":"James Morris","startTime":565.25,"endTime":569.39,"body":"you know, my view is most issues"},{"speaker":"James Morris","startTime":565.25,"endTime":569.39,"body":"like anxiety or depression or"},{"speaker":"James Morris","startTime":569.39,"endTime":572.51,"body":"mental health issues, however"},{"speaker":"James Morris","startTime":569.39,"endTime":572.51,"body":"you want to describe them are,"},{"speaker":"James Morris","startTime":572.54,"endTime":575.99,"body":"you know, related to"},{"speaker":"James Morris","startTime":572.54,"endTime":575.99,"body":"difficulties that often get"},{"speaker":"James Morris","startTime":575.99,"endTime":580.61,"body":"internalised or they're kind of"},{"speaker":"James Morris","startTime":575.99,"endTime":580.61,"body":"within us somehow. And the best"},{"speaker":"James Morris","startTime":580.61,"endTime":584.06,"body":"response to that is being able"},{"speaker":"James Morris","startTime":580.61,"endTime":584.06,"body":"to talk about and process it in"},{"speaker":"James Morris","startTime":584.06,"endTime":587.9,"body":"a way in which allows you to be"},{"speaker":"James Morris","startTime":584.06,"endTime":587.9,"body":"emotional about it. And I think"},{"speaker":"James Morris","startTime":587.9,"endTime":592.7,"body":"that is a key part of AA or peer"},{"speaker":"James Morris","startTime":587.9,"endTime":592.7,"body":"support or kind of therapy or"},{"speaker":"James Morris","startTime":592.7,"endTime":597.11,"body":"whatever is just a mechanism for"},{"speaker":"James Morris","startTime":592.7,"endTime":597.11,"body":"allowing exploration of those"},{"speaker":"James Morris","startTime":597.11,"endTime":599.93,"body":"things that might be driving"},{"speaker":"James Morris","startTime":597.11,"endTime":599.93,"body":"problem drinking, would you kind"},{"speaker":"James Morris","startTime":599.93,"endTime":600.95,"body":"of agree with that?"},{"speaker":"Chelsey Flood","startTime":601.04,"endTime":604.67,"body":"Absolutely. Yeah."},{"speaker":"Chelsey Flood","startTime":601.04,"endTime":604.67,"body":"And I think it takes I know, it"},{"speaker":"Chelsey Flood","startTime":604.67,"endTime":608.0,"body":"takes an awful lot of practice"},{"speaker":"Chelsey Flood","startTime":604.67,"endTime":608.0,"body":"to get the hang of doing that."},{"speaker":"Chelsey Flood","startTime":608.03,"endTime":612.77,"body":"And for me, AA gave me that"},{"speaker":"Chelsey Flood","startTime":608.03,"endTime":612.77,"body":"forum to learn how to do that."},{"speaker":"Chelsey Flood","startTime":612.77,"endTime":616.19,"body":"And then I was able to roll it"},{"speaker":"Chelsey Flood","startTime":612.77,"endTime":616.19,"body":"out into the rest of my life."},{"speaker":"Chelsey Flood","startTime":616.25,"endTime":619.67,"body":"And I still feel like I'm only"},{"speaker":"Chelsey Flood","startTime":616.25,"endTime":619.67,"body":"learning how to do that, I still"},{"speaker":"Chelsey Flood","startTime":619.67,"endTime":623.27,"body":"find it hard to get that right"},{"speaker":"Chelsey Flood","startTime":619.67,"endTime":623.27,"body":"in my professional life, I"},{"speaker":"Chelsey Flood","startTime":623.27,"endTime":627.02,"body":"think. But I do want to be a"},{"speaker":"Chelsey Flood","startTime":623.27,"endTime":627.02,"body":"human at work, I don't want to"},{"speaker":"Chelsey Flood","startTime":627.02,"endTime":629.36,"body":"just have to pretend that I"},{"speaker":"Chelsey Flood","startTime":627.02,"endTime":629.36,"body":"don't have any needs or"},{"speaker":"Chelsey Flood","startTime":629.36,"endTime":632.18,"body":"requirements, just because I'm a"},{"speaker":"Chelsey Flood","startTime":629.36,"endTime":632.18,"body":"professional person. So maybe"},{"speaker":"Chelsey Flood","startTime":632.18,"endTime":636.05,"body":"that's tricky for a lot of us."},{"speaker":"Chelsey Flood","startTime":632.18,"endTime":636.05,"body":"But for me, AA was a really safe"},{"speaker":"Chelsey Flood","startTime":636.05,"endTime":638.57,"body":"place where I could learn to do"},{"speaker":"Chelsey Flood","startTime":636.05,"endTime":638.57,"body":"that. And it's definitely"},{"speaker":"Chelsey Flood","startTime":638.57,"endTime":642.47,"body":"enhanced my relationships. As a"},{"speaker":"Chelsey Flood","startTime":638.57,"endTime":642.47,"body":"result, I've also been to"},{"speaker":"Chelsey Flood","startTime":642.47,"endTime":645.44,"body":"therapy and other things to"},{"speaker":"Chelsey Flood","startTime":642.47,"endTime":645.44,"body":"learn about about that as well."},{"speaker":"Chelsey Flood","startTime":645.44,"endTime":648.29,"body":"A lot of reading and a lot of"},{"speaker":"Chelsey Flood","startTime":645.44,"endTime":648.29,"body":"talking with friends."},{"speaker":"James Morris","startTime":648.59,"endTime":651.35,"body":"Yeah. And I think,"},{"speaker":"James Morris","startTime":648.59,"endTime":651.35,"body":"you know, that is one of the"},{"speaker":"James Morris","startTime":651.35,"endTime":654.56,"body":"huge strengths about it, I think"},{"speaker":"James Morris","startTime":651.35,"endTime":654.56,"body":"is the idea that is"},{"speaker":"James Morris","startTime":654.59,"endTime":658.61,"body":"identification with others is"},{"speaker":"James Morris","startTime":654.59,"endTime":658.61,"body":"encouraged, isn't it? So you"},{"speaker":"James Morris","startTime":658.61,"endTime":661.79,"body":"know, the idea is that you don't"},{"speaker":"James Morris","startTime":658.61,"endTime":661.79,"body":"give other members advice or"},{"speaker":"James Morris","startTime":661.79,"endTime":665.0,"body":"criticise anything that they've"},{"speaker":"James Morris","startTime":661.79,"endTime":665.0,"body":"done. And I think that is, you"},{"speaker":"James Morris","startTime":665.0,"endTime":668.99,"body":"know, certainly I before I ever"},{"speaker":"James Morris","startTime":665.0,"endTime":668.99,"body":"spoke openly in a meeting, I"},{"speaker":"James Morris","startTime":668.99,"endTime":672.59,"body":"heard other people doing so and"},{"speaker":"James Morris","startTime":668.99,"endTime":672.59,"body":"being encouraged and supported."},{"speaker":"James Morris","startTime":672.59,"endTime":676.31,"body":"So, you know, maybe it's"},{"speaker":"James Morris","startTime":672.59,"endTime":676.31,"body":"certainly the evidence points to"},{"speaker":"James Morris","startTime":676.34,"endTime":679.76,"body":"brought more broadly, it's a"},{"speaker":"James Morris","startTime":676.34,"endTime":679.76,"body":"social network whose goal is"},{"speaker":"James Morris","startTime":679.76,"endTime":683.75,"body":"around supporting others to stop"},{"speaker":"James Morris","startTime":679.76,"endTime":683.75,"body":"drinking and replaces, you know,"},{"speaker":"James Morris","startTime":683.75,"endTime":686.45,"body":"maybe social networks that that"},{"speaker":"James Morris","startTime":683.75,"endTime":686.45,"body":"were the opposite. They were"},{"speaker":"James Morris","startTime":686.45,"endTime":689.18,"body":"about drinking, but it's not"},{"speaker":"James Morris","startTime":686.45,"endTime":689.18,"body":"just about that, either, as it"},{"speaker":"James Morris","startTime":689.18,"endTime":692.63,"body":"is about you might say that,"},{"speaker":"James Morris","startTime":689.18,"endTime":692.63,"body":"certainly for me, drinking was"},{"speaker":"James Morris","startTime":692.63,"endTime":696.95,"body":"about escapism, and you know,"},{"speaker":"James Morris","startTime":692.63,"endTime":696.95,"body":"maybe to a degree running away"},{"speaker":"James Morris","startTime":696.95,"endTime":701.21,"body":"from difficult feelings or"},{"speaker":"James Morris","startTime":696.95,"endTime":701.21,"body":"problems. And whereas AI might"},{"speaker":"James Morris","startTime":701.21,"endTime":704.99,"body":"be more seen as a way of facing"},{"speaker":"James Morris","startTime":701.21,"endTime":704.99,"body":"up to them and exploring them."},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":705.02,"endTime":707.33,"body":"Yeah, exactly. So I"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":705.02,"endTime":707.33,"body":"think when when it works well"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":707.33,"endTime":711.74,"body":"for people, and everyone has a"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":707.33,"endTime":711.74,"body":"different knot to untangle, I"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":711.74,"endTime":714.23,"body":"suppose when they arrive at AA,"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":711.74,"endTime":714.23,"body":"but when it's worked well for"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":714.23,"endTime":717.47,"body":"people it does, it does really"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":714.23,"endTime":717.47,"body":"well. And I've seen many, many"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":717.47,"endTime":721.49,"body":"people whose lives have been"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":717.47,"endTime":721.49,"body":"changed very positively. And"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":721.49,"endTime":726.23,"body":"they've been able to uncover a"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":721.49,"endTime":726.23,"body":"more useful and content side of"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":726.47,"endTime":729.8,"body":"themselves and just develop a"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":726.47,"endTime":729.8,"body":"life that really suits them a"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":729.8,"endTime":733.46,"body":"lot, a lot better. And alcohol"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":729.8,"endTime":733.46,"body":"just has no real part in that."},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":733.49,"endTime":736.58,"body":"And for a lot of people alcohol"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":733.49,"endTime":736.58,"body":"is just neutralised so they"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":736.58,"endTime":739.82,"body":"don't mind being around other"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":736.58,"endTime":739.82,"body":"people drinking, they don't mind"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":739.82,"endTime":744.44,"body":"even going to a pub or anything"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":739.82,"endTime":744.44,"body":"like that. So it is it is very,"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":744.47,"endTime":747.56,"body":"you know, it does it does work"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":744.47,"endTime":747.56,"body":"in it. It does do a lot of good."},{"speaker":"James Morris","startTime":747.0,"endTime":750.93,"body":"Yeah, I think even"},{"speaker":"James Morris","startTime":747.0,"endTime":750.93,"body":"though it's famously quite hard"},{"speaker":"James Morris","startTime":750.93,"endTime":755.4,"body":"to research, there is now a"},{"speaker":"James Morris","startTime":750.93,"endTime":755.4,"body":"decent body of evidence that"},{"speaker":"James Morris","startTime":755.4,"endTime":759.27,"body":"shows absolutely it does work,"},{"speaker":"James Morris","startTime":755.4,"endTime":759.27,"body":"but perhaps not more not less"},{"speaker":"James Morris","startTime":759.27,"endTime":763.17,"body":"than other mutual aid or peer"},{"speaker":"James Morris","startTime":759.27,"endTime":763.17,"body":"support groups, and perhaps not"},{"speaker":"James Morris","startTime":763.17,"endTime":766.62,"body":"more not less than other"},{"speaker":"James Morris","startTime":763.17,"endTime":766.62,"body":"treatment approaches. So I think"},{"speaker":"James Morris","startTime":766.62,"endTime":770.7,"body":"it is partly about people"},{"speaker":"James Morris","startTime":766.62,"endTime":770.7,"body":"finding kind of what fits for"},{"speaker":"James Morris","startTime":770.7,"endTime":774.21,"body":"them. And once they're at that"},{"speaker":"James Morris","startTime":770.7,"endTime":774.21,"body":"stage where they they themselves"},{"speaker":"James Morris","startTime":774.21,"endTime":777.12,"body":"are ready to kind of make some"},{"speaker":"James Morris","startTime":774.21,"endTime":777.12,"body":"kind of change or or look at"},{"speaker":"James Morris","startTime":777.12,"endTime":779.52,"body":"their drinking, then you know,"},{"speaker":"James Morris","startTime":777.12,"endTime":779.52,"body":"there's a saying in AA, isn't"},{"speaker":"James Morris","startTime":779.52,"endTime":782.28,"body":"there, 'it works if you work it'"},{"speaker":"James Morris","startTime":779.52,"endTime":782.28,"body":"here. I think we can apply that"},{"speaker":"James Morris","startTime":782.28,"endTime":783.87,"body":"to most other approaches."},{"speaker":"Chelsey Flood","startTime":783.9,"endTime":786.27,"body":"So I have mixed"},{"speaker":"Chelsey Flood","startTime":783.9,"endTime":786.27,"body":"feelings about whether something"},{"speaker":"Chelsey Flood","startTime":786.27,"endTime":790.59,"body":"else would have worked for me in"},{"speaker":"Chelsey Flood","startTime":786.27,"endTime":790.59,"body":"place of AI, I feel it would"},{"speaker":"Chelsey Flood","startTime":790.59,"endTime":794.85,"body":"have. But I do wonder as well if"},{"speaker":"Chelsey Flood","startTime":790.59,"endTime":794.85,"body":"the fear a bit of a negative"},{"speaker":"Chelsey Flood","startTime":794.85,"endTime":797.67,"body":"thing about AI that keeps people"},{"speaker":"Chelsey Flood","startTime":794.85,"endTime":797.67,"body":"going back because they're"},{"speaker":"Chelsey Flood","startTime":797.67,"endTime":800.64,"body":"afraid that if they don't stay"},{"speaker":"Chelsey Flood","startTime":797.67,"endTime":800.64,"body":"in the middle of AI, they'll"},{"speaker":"Chelsey Flood","startTime":800.64,"endTime":803.34,"body":"drink again, I do wonder if that"},{"speaker":"Chelsey Flood","startTime":800.64,"endTime":803.34,"body":"was part of what allowed me to"},{"speaker":"Chelsey Flood","startTime":803.34,"endTime":804.15,"body":"stop drinking."},{"speaker":"James Morris","startTime":804.24,"endTime":805.32,"body":"What do you mean"},{"speaker":"James Morris","startTime":804.24,"endTime":805.32,"body":"by that?"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":805.35,"endTime":807.78,"body":"Well, I don't know if I"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":805.35,"endTime":807.78,"body":"would have been able to stop"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":807.78,"endTime":811.86,"body":"drinking if I had only been"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":807.78,"endTime":811.86,"body":"focusing on I don't know, if I"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":811.86,"endTime":815.43,"body":"didn't have the fear that if I"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":811.86,"endTime":815.43,"body":"stopped going to aa I might"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":815.43,"endTime":817.95,"body":"drink I don't know if I would"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":815.43,"endTime":817.95,"body":"have been able to quit drinking,"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":818.04,"endTime":820.65,"body":"I can't ever know for sure, I"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":818.04,"endTime":820.65,"body":"suppose. But a little while"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":820.65,"endTime":823.86,"body":"after I'd quit drinking. And it"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":820.65,"endTime":823.86,"body":"had become a bit more felt a bit"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":823.86,"endTime":829.83,"body":"more normal to be sober, say 18"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":823.86,"endTime":829.83,"body":"months or so I found out about"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":829.83,"endTime":833.28,"body":"some of the things like one of"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":829.83,"endTime":833.28,"body":"the big things was the Tempest"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":833.28,"endTime":836.52,"body":"movement, or I don't know what"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":833.28,"endTime":836.52,"body":"it's called completely, but it's"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":836.52,"endTime":840.12,"body":"the woman who wrote quit like a"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":836.52,"endTime":840.12,"body":"woman and she set up her"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":840.21,"endTime":844.11,"body":"sobriety club thing that you pay"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":840.21,"endTime":844.11,"body":"for and you get sober there. And"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":844.11,"endTime":847.62,"body":"they you know, like they, you"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":844.11,"endTime":847.62,"body":"maybe do therapy and go to yoga"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":847.62,"endTime":852.12,"body":"and it's like hip, young women."},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":847.62,"endTime":852.12,"body":"And I thought, oh God, and I've"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":852.12,"endTime":855.84,"body":"been coming to AA, and it's like"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":852.12,"endTime":855.84,"body":"so much less cool. And it is"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":855.84,"endTime":859.29,"body":"literally in church basements"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":855.84,"endTime":859.29,"body":"often. And I felt a bit jealous"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":859.29,"endTime":861.96,"body":"that I hadn't gotten sober in a"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":859.29,"endTime":861.96,"body":"slightly cooler way. But at the"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":861.96,"endTime":866.64,"body":"same time, that process of"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":861.96,"endTime":866.64,"body":"learning humility because of AA,"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":866.76,"endTime":869.25,"body":"and I didn't need to learn"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":866.76,"endTime":869.25,"body":"humility within myself, like my,"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":869.55,"endTime":872.19,"body":"my self esteem was at an all"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":869.55,"endTime":872.19,"body":"time low, but at the same time"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":872.19,"endTime":875.4,"body":"learning to listen to the"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":872.19,"endTime":875.4,"body":"people, no matter what they look"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":875.4,"endTime":877.56,"body":"like or where they came from, I"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":875.4,"endTime":877.56,"body":"think was actually really"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":877.56,"endTime":880.65,"body":"valuable. And so I'm really glad"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":877.56,"endTime":880.65,"body":"that I got that from AA."},{"speaker":"James Morris","startTime":880.87,"endTime":883.75,"body":"That's so"},{"speaker":"James Morris","startTime":880.87,"endTime":883.75,"body":"interesting, both in terms of"},{"speaker":"James Morris","startTime":883.84,"endTime":888.1,"body":"you know, whether fear was a"},{"speaker":"James Morris","startTime":883.84,"endTime":888.1,"body":"kind of positive force for you,"},{"speaker":"James Morris","startTime":888.13,"endTime":891.58,"body":"you know, the fear that the idea"},{"speaker":"James Morris","startTime":888.13,"endTime":891.58,"body":"that if you don't keep coming to"},{"speaker":"James Morris","startTime":891.58,"endTime":894.85,"body":"AA, then yeah, again, I guess"},{"speaker":"James Morris","startTime":891.58,"endTime":894.85,"body":"that's back to the sort of"},{"speaker":"James Morris","startTime":894.85,"endTime":897.97,"body":"subjectivity or individual"},{"speaker":"James Morris","startTime":894.85,"endTime":897.97,"body":"differences in you know, for"},{"speaker":"James Morris","startTime":897.97,"endTime":901.72,"body":"some people fear might create to"},{"speaker":"James Morris","startTime":897.97,"endTime":901.72,"body":"much anxiety that it has the"},{"speaker":"James Morris","startTime":901.72,"endTime":904.24,"body":"opposite effect. And for other"},{"speaker":"James Morris","startTime":901.72,"endTime":904.24,"body":"people, it is a really, you"},{"speaker":"James Morris","startTime":904.24,"endTime":907.45,"body":"know, a useful motivational"},{"speaker":"James Morris","startTime":904.24,"endTime":907.45,"body":"force. That's really"},{"speaker":"James Morris","startTime":907.45,"endTime":911.92,"body":"interesting, but so is what's"},{"speaker":"James Morris","startTime":907.45,"endTime":911.92,"body":"now kind of described often"},{"speaker":"James Morris","startTime":911.92,"endTime":915.76,"body":"described as positive sobriety"},{"speaker":"James Morris","startTime":911.92,"endTime":915.76,"body":"or new sobriety, you know, I"},{"speaker":"James Morris","startTime":915.76,"endTime":918.61,"body":"think on the whole is really"},{"speaker":"James Morris","startTime":915.76,"endTime":918.61,"body":"positive, because it probably"},{"speaker":"James Morris","startTime":918.61,"endTime":921.31,"body":"does appeal to a whole new"},{"speaker":"James Morris","startTime":918.61,"endTime":921.31,"body":"group, particularly younger"},{"speaker":"James Morris","startTime":921.31,"endTime":924.55,"body":"drinkers who probably never"},{"speaker":"James Morris","startTime":921.31,"endTime":924.55,"body":"would have gone to AA. And"},{"speaker":"James Morris","startTime":924.55,"endTime":928.96,"body":"certainly, I do remember younger"},{"speaker":"James Morris","startTime":924.55,"endTime":928.96,"body":"drinkers, perhaps who I kind of"},{"speaker":"James Morris","startTime":928.96,"endTime":932.68,"body":"relate to a bit more in a"},{"speaker":"James Morris","startTime":928.96,"endTime":932.68,"body":"meeting saying, Well, I don't"},{"speaker":"James Morris","startTime":932.68,"endTime":935.44,"body":"know if this is really the right"},{"speaker":"James Morris","startTime":932.68,"endTime":935.44,"body":"place for me, because I'm more"},{"speaker":"James Morris","startTime":935.44,"endTime":938.53,"body":"of a binge drinker. You know, I"},{"speaker":"James Morris","startTime":935.44,"endTime":938.53,"body":"just get drunk on the weekends"},{"speaker":"James Morris","startTime":938.53,"endTime":939.91,"body":"and leads to problems."},{"speaker":"Chelsey Flood","startTime":940.5,"endTime":943.38,"body":"I know what you"},{"speaker":"Chelsey Flood","startTime":940.5,"endTime":943.38,"body":"mean about that. And we do have,"},{"speaker":"Chelsey Flood","startTime":943.62,"endTime":946.14,"body":"because I do still go to AA"},{"speaker":"Chelsey Flood","startTime":943.62,"endTime":946.14,"body":"sometimes. And we do have a"},{"speaker":"Chelsey Flood","startTime":946.14,"endTime":949.95,"body":"young persons meeting that"},{"speaker":"Chelsey Flood","startTime":946.14,"endTime":949.95,"body":"really seems to help with that"},{"speaker":"Chelsey Flood","startTime":950.07,"endTime":954.0,"body":"people finding it hard to"},{"speaker":"Chelsey Flood","startTime":950.07,"endTime":954.0,"body":"identify because they haven't"},{"speaker":"Chelsey Flood","startTime":954.03,"endTime":957.45,"body":"gone to the depths that some"},{"speaker":"Chelsey Flood","startTime":954.03,"endTime":957.45,"body":"other people in AA have gone to"},{"speaker":"Chelsey Flood","startTime":957.45,"endTime":960.51,"body":"with their drinking. So I think"},{"speaker":"Chelsey Flood","startTime":957.45,"endTime":960.51,"body":"that's a really positive move."},{"speaker":"Chelsey Flood","startTime":960.51,"endTime":964.08,"body":"But I do remember as well, while"},{"speaker":"Chelsey Flood","startTime":960.51,"endTime":964.08,"body":"I was getting sober in aa having"},{"speaker":"Chelsey Flood","startTime":964.08,"endTime":967.02,"body":"to fight a lot of the stuff that"},{"speaker":"Chelsey Flood","startTime":964.08,"endTime":967.02,"body":"I didn't agree with. And I do"},{"speaker":"Chelsey Flood","startTime":967.02,"endTime":969.72,"body":"feel like that was probably a"},{"speaker":"Chelsey Flood","startTime":967.02,"endTime":969.72,"body":"waste of my energy. Although I"},{"speaker":"Chelsey Flood","startTime":969.72,"endTime":973.71,"body":"guess it also came it fed into"},{"speaker":"Chelsey Flood","startTime":969.72,"endTime":973.71,"body":"my blog, and I wrote through"},{"speaker":"Chelsey Flood","startTime":973.71,"endTime":976.23,"body":"that period. So I suppose I've"},{"speaker":"Chelsey Flood","startTime":973.71,"endTime":976.23,"body":"got a lot of writing practice"},{"speaker":"Chelsey Flood","startTime":976.23,"endTime":979.14,"body":"out of it. But I do remember"},{"speaker":"Chelsey Flood","startTime":976.23,"endTime":979.14,"body":"having to fight a lot about"},{"speaker":"Chelsey Flood","startTime":979.14,"endTime":982.47,"body":"certain things in the big book,"},{"speaker":"Chelsey Flood","startTime":979.14,"endTime":982.47,"body":"I got fed up of the lack of"},{"speaker":"Chelsey Flood","startTime":982.47,"endTime":986.49,"body":"representation in the big book."},{"speaker":"Chelsey Flood","startTime":982.47,"endTime":986.49,"body":"And I wasn't very into the"},{"speaker":"Chelsey Flood","startTime":986.49,"endTime":990.03,"body":"Christian overtones, even though"},{"speaker":"Chelsey Flood","startTime":986.49,"endTime":990.03,"body":"the idea is that you can have a"},{"speaker":"Chelsey Flood","startTime":990.03,"endTime":993.6,"body":"high power of any variety that"},{"speaker":"Chelsey Flood","startTime":990.03,"endTime":993.6,"body":"it's still the language of"},{"speaker":"Chelsey Flood","startTime":993.63,"endTime":996.33,"body":"Christian language. So that can"},{"speaker":"Chelsey Flood","startTime":993.63,"endTime":996.33,"body":"be quite off putting, and I feel"},{"speaker":"Chelsey Flood","startTime":996.33,"endTime":1000.11,"body":"like that having to battle"},{"speaker":"Chelsey Flood","startTime":996.33,"endTime":1000.11,"body":"around all of that stuff is it"},{"speaker":"Chelsey Flood","startTime":1000.11,"endTime":1003.26,"body":"has taken necessary energy. And"},{"speaker":"Chelsey Flood","startTime":1000.11,"endTime":1003.26,"body":"I do still find that a bit"},{"speaker":"Chelsey Flood","startTime":1003.26,"endTime":1007.07,"body":"frustrating as well as kind of"},{"speaker":"Chelsey Flood","startTime":1003.26,"endTime":1007.07,"body":"saying that AA is fantastic at"},{"speaker":"Chelsey Flood","startTime":1007.07,"endTime":1009.92,"body":"the same time. So I do get why"},{"speaker":"Chelsey Flood","startTime":1007.07,"endTime":1009.92,"body":"people would just swerve that."},{"speaker":"Chelsey Flood","startTime":1009.95,"endTime":1013.16,"body":"But I also find it a problem"},{"speaker":"Chelsey Flood","startTime":1009.95,"endTime":1013.16,"body":"having come from a for people to"},{"speaker":"Chelsey Flood","startTime":1013.16,"endTime":1016.79,"body":"make money out of getting other"},{"speaker":"Chelsey Flood","startTime":1013.16,"endTime":1016.79,"body":"people sober. So I sometimes"},{"speaker":"Chelsey Flood","startTime":1016.79,"endTime":1019.97,"body":"feel like you see a lot of the"},{"speaker":"Chelsey Flood","startTime":1016.79,"endTime":1019.97,"body":"new sobriety movements, and"},{"speaker":"Chelsey Flood","startTime":1019.97,"endTime":1022.55,"body":"they're kind of business models,"},{"speaker":"Chelsey Flood","startTime":1019.97,"endTime":1022.55,"body":"and they're you basically using"},{"speaker":"Chelsey Flood","startTime":1022.55,"endTime":1025.37,"body":"everything from a, but just"},{"speaker":"Chelsey Flood","startTime":1022.55,"endTime":1025.37,"body":"taking out a few of the really"},{"speaker":"Chelsey Flood","startTime":1025.37,"endTime":1028.76,"body":"old things and then charging for"},{"speaker":"Chelsey Flood","startTime":1025.37,"endTime":1028.76,"body":"it. And sometimes I think is"},{"speaker":"Chelsey Flood","startTime":1028.76,"endTime":1031.73,"body":"that cool? I'm not sure if"},{"speaker":"Chelsey Flood","startTime":1028.76,"endTime":1031.73,"body":"that's if that's good or not?"},{"speaker":"James Morris","startTime":1031.81,"endTime":1034.66,"body":"Yeah, I think"},{"speaker":"James Morris","startTime":1031.81,"endTime":1034.66,"body":"there was the whole thing about"},{"speaker":"James Morris","startTime":1034.66,"endTime":1037.87,"body":"Google banning kind of rehab"},{"speaker":"James Morris","startTime":1034.66,"endTime":1037.87,"body":"advertisement, you know in the"},{"speaker":"James Morris","startTime":1037.87,"endTime":1041.68,"body":"States, obviously, the sort of"},{"speaker":"James Morris","startTime":1037.87,"endTime":1041.68,"body":"rehab culture is, is much bigger"},{"speaker":"James Morris","startTime":1041.68,"endTime":1046.0,"body":"over there. And essentially, a"},{"speaker":"James Morris","startTime":1041.68,"endTime":1046.0,"body":"lot of the rehabs are just in"},{"speaker":"James Morris","startTime":1046.27,"endTime":1049.93,"body":"people spending lots of money on"},{"speaker":"James Morris","startTime":1046.27,"endTime":1049.93,"body":"a residential setting where"},{"speaker":"James Morris","startTime":1049.93,"endTime":1052.69,"body":"they're basically just running"},{"speaker":"James Morris","startTime":1049.93,"endTime":1052.69,"body":"12, step programmes, or"},{"speaker":"James Morris","startTime":1052.69,"endTime":1056.92,"body":"whatever. And often, you know,"},{"speaker":"James Morris","startTime":1052.69,"endTime":1056.92,"body":"for the profit of someone owning"},{"speaker":"James Morris","startTime":1056.92,"endTime":1059.95,"body":"the rehab company. So yeah,"},{"speaker":"James Morris","startTime":1056.92,"endTime":1059.95,"body":"there's a huge whole set of"},{"speaker":"James Morris","startTime":1059.95,"endTime":1063.76,"body":"questions. And, of course, one"},{"speaker":"James Morris","startTime":1059.95,"endTime":1063.76,"body":"of the fantastic things about AA"},{"speaker":"James Morris","startTime":1063.76,"endTime":1066.94,"body":"and other peer supports is that,"},{"speaker":"James Morris","startTime":1063.76,"endTime":1066.94,"body":"you know, there isn't that kind"},{"speaker":"James Morris","startTime":1066.94,"endTime":1070.87,"body":"of capitalism creep, as you"},{"speaker":"James Morris","startTime":1066.94,"endTime":1070.87,"body":"might call it. But yeah, I think"},{"speaker":"James Morris","startTime":1071.5,"endTime":1075.79,"body":"there's a big variety in"},{"speaker":"James Morris","startTime":1071.5,"endTime":1075.79,"body":"meetings. And also the idea"},{"speaker":"James Morris","startTime":1075.79,"endTime":1078.25,"body":"that, you know, you kind of take"},{"speaker":"James Morris","startTime":1075.79,"endTime":1078.25,"body":"what you like from it, and leave"},{"speaker":"James Morris","startTime":1078.25,"endTime":1081.64,"body":"the rest. But, you know, some"},{"speaker":"James Morris","startTime":1078.25,"endTime":1081.64,"body":"meetings on even based around"},{"speaker":"James Morris","startTime":1081.64,"endTime":1084.13,"body":"the steps, I don't think, you"},{"speaker":"James Morris","startTime":1081.64,"endTime":1084.13,"body":"know, they're just very much"},{"speaker":"James Morris","startTime":1084.13,"endTime":1086.98,"body":"more loosely run in the sense"},{"speaker":"James Morris","startTime":1084.13,"endTime":1086.98,"body":"that you're there because you"},{"speaker":"James Morris","startTime":1086.98,"endTime":1089.62,"body":"have a desire to stop drinking."},{"speaker":"James Morris","startTime":1086.98,"endTime":1089.62,"body":"And you should follow the"},{"speaker":"James Morris","startTime":1089.62,"endTime":1093.16,"body":"principles in terms of not"},{"speaker":"James Morris","startTime":1089.62,"endTime":1093.16,"body":"challenging other people and so"},{"speaker":"James Morris","startTime":1093.16,"endTime":1096.43,"body":"on. But you might not explicitly"},{"speaker":"James Morris","startTime":1093.16,"endTime":1096.43,"body":"work through the steps or there"},{"speaker":"James Morris","startTime":1096.43,"endTime":1099.25,"body":"might not be much focus on"},{"speaker":"James Morris","startTime":1096.43,"endTime":1099.25,"body":"deciding on your own higher"},{"speaker":"James Morris","startTime":1099.25,"endTime":1102.28,"body":"power. But, you know, a lot of"},{"speaker":"James Morris","startTime":1099.25,"endTime":1102.28,"body":"this relates to what I discussed"},{"speaker":"James Morris","startTime":1102.28,"endTime":1106.06,"body":"with Wendy, in the in the"},{"speaker":"James Morris","startTime":1102.28,"endTime":1106.06,"body":"spirituality episode, where when"},{"speaker":"James Morris","startTime":1106.06,"endTime":1109.75,"body":"they I think articulated really"},{"speaker":"James Morris","startTime":1106.06,"endTime":1109.75,"body":"well how the experience of"},{"speaker":"James Morris","startTime":1109.75,"endTime":1113.92,"body":"recovery and understanding of"},{"speaker":"James Morris","startTime":1109.75,"endTime":1113.92,"body":"those meanings is so personal,"},{"speaker":"James Morris","startTime":1113.92,"endTime":1117.76,"body":"so individualised and should be"},{"speaker":"James Morris","startTime":1113.92,"endTime":1117.76,"body":"encouraged to be so you know,"},{"speaker":"James Morris","startTime":1117.76,"endTime":1121.03,"body":"whatever you interpret your"},{"speaker":"James Morris","startTime":1117.76,"endTime":1121.03,"body":"higher power to be is absolutely"},{"speaker":"James Morris","startTime":1121.03,"endTime":1124.93,"body":"fine. And and I think that's"},{"speaker":"James Morris","startTime":1121.03,"endTime":1124.93,"body":"really important. Because, you"},{"speaker":"James Morris","startTime":1124.93,"endTime":1127.09,"body":"know, I think it's all those"},{"speaker":"James Morris","startTime":1124.93,"endTime":1127.09,"body":"things that we discussed"},{"speaker":"James Morris","startTime":1127.09,"endTime":1131.26,"body":"earlier, they're not necessarily"},{"speaker":"James Morris","startTime":1127.09,"endTime":1131.26,"body":"they don't rely on some of the"},{"speaker":"James Morris","startTime":1131.29,"endTime":1134.56,"body":"the kind of a lot of the stuff"},{"speaker":"James Morris","startTime":1131.29,"endTime":1134.56,"body":"that's in the in the big book,"},{"speaker":"James Morris","startTime":1134.56,"endTime":1138.28,"body":"which as again, as Wendy"},{"speaker":"James Morris","startTime":1134.56,"endTime":1138.28,"body":"described is from a time when,"},{"speaker":"James Morris","startTime":1138.31,"endTime":1141.52,"body":"you know, it was written to"},{"speaker":"James Morris","startTime":1138.31,"endTime":1141.52,"body":"reflect a much more religious"},{"speaker":"James Morris","startTime":1141.52,"endTime":1146.35,"body":"period in time. And part of its"},{"speaker":"James Morris","startTime":1141.52,"endTime":1146.35,"body":"success has been to allow people"},{"speaker":"James Morris","startTime":1146.35,"endTime":1149.71,"body":"to draw on it in a way that"},{"speaker":"James Morris","startTime":1146.35,"endTime":1149.71,"body":"makes sense in terms of their"},{"speaker":"James Morris","startTime":1149.71,"endTime":1153.25,"body":"own experiences, even though"},{"speaker":"James Morris","startTime":1149.71,"endTime":1153.25,"body":"that might be very far removed"},{"speaker":"James Morris","startTime":1153.25,"endTime":1155.44,"body":"from how it was originally"},{"speaker":"James Morris","startTime":1153.25,"endTime":1155.44,"body":"written."},{"speaker":"Chelsey Flood","startTime":1156.47,"endTime":1159.11,"body":"I think that's"},{"speaker":"Chelsey Flood","startTime":1156.47,"endTime":1159.11,"body":"really true. And I think that AA"},{"speaker":"Chelsey Flood","startTime":1159.11,"endTime":1162.47,"body":"was created to serve a"},{"speaker":"Chelsey Flood","startTime":1159.11,"endTime":1162.47,"body":"particular kind of drinker. And"},{"speaker":"Chelsey Flood","startTime":1162.47,"endTime":1165.2,"body":"the kind of drinking that goes"},{"speaker":"Chelsey Flood","startTime":1162.47,"endTime":1165.2,"body":"to air now is a much broader"},{"speaker":"Chelsey Flood","startTime":1165.2,"endTime":1170.09,"body":"sort. So you'll get someone like"},{"speaker":"Chelsey Flood","startTime":1165.2,"endTime":1170.09,"body":"me who's quite far from a really"},{"speaker":"Chelsey Flood","startTime":1170.12,"endTime":1173.39,"body":"serious in inverted commas rock"},{"speaker":"Chelsey Flood","startTime":1170.12,"endTime":1173.39,"body":"bottom, and you'll also get"},{"speaker":"Chelsey Flood","startTime":1173.39,"endTime":1176.06,"body":"someone who's been living in"},{"speaker":"Chelsey Flood","startTime":1173.39,"endTime":1176.06,"body":"their car for the last three"},{"speaker":"Chelsey Flood","startTime":1176.06,"endTime":1178.55,"body":"months, and you'll get, you"},{"speaker":"Chelsey Flood","startTime":1176.06,"endTime":1178.55,"body":"know, you'll just get all"},{"speaker":"Chelsey Flood","startTime":1178.55,"endTime":1181.37,"body":"different types of people and it"},{"speaker":"Chelsey Flood","startTime":1178.55,"endTime":1181.37,"body":"can work for everyone because"},{"speaker":"Chelsey Flood","startTime":1181.4,"endTime":1185.12,"body":"the 12 steps for me is just to"},{"speaker":"Chelsey Flood","startTime":1181.4,"endTime":1185.12,"body":"kind of recipe for"},{"speaker":"Chelsey Flood","startTime":1185.12,"endTime":1188.0,"body":"transformation if you follow it."},{"speaker":"Chelsey Flood","startTime":1185.12,"endTime":1188.0,"body":"And in some ways, I think that"},{"speaker":"Chelsey Flood","startTime":1188.0,"endTime":1190.88,"body":"the 12 steps provides everything"},{"speaker":"Chelsey Flood","startTime":1188.0,"endTime":1190.88,"body":"that you might not have gotten"},{"speaker":"Chelsey Flood","startTime":1190.91,"endTime":1194.39,"body":"growing up for whatever reason."},{"speaker":"Chelsey Flood","startTime":1190.91,"endTime":1194.39,"body":"So it sort of creates a safe"},{"speaker":"Chelsey Flood","startTime":1194.39,"endTime":1196.79,"body":"space for you to learn to talk"},{"speaker":"Chelsey Flood","startTime":1194.39,"endTime":1196.79,"body":"about your feelings for you to"},{"speaker":"Chelsey Flood","startTime":1196.79,"endTime":1199.97,"body":"discover what you actually like"},{"speaker":"Chelsey Flood","startTime":1196.79,"endTime":1199.97,"body":"and maybe to explore your spirit"},{"speaker":"Chelsey Flood","startTime":1199.97,"endTime":1202.76,"body":"Politics, I think that can be a"},{"speaker":"Chelsey Flood","startTime":1199.97,"endTime":1202.76,"body":"really life enhancing thing,"},{"speaker":"Chelsey Flood","startTime":1202.76,"endTime":1206.36,"body":"whatever that means to a person."},{"speaker":"Chelsey Flood","startTime":1202.76,"endTime":1206.36,"body":"And they can kind of give you"},{"speaker":"Chelsey Flood","startTime":1206.36,"endTime":1210.14,"body":"all of that. So if you if you"},{"speaker":"Chelsey Flood","startTime":1206.36,"endTime":1210.14,"body":"are lucky, like I was you, I"},{"speaker":"Chelsey Flood","startTime":1210.14,"endTime":1212.33,"body":"just had a really good"},{"speaker":"Chelsey Flood","startTime":1210.14,"endTime":1212.33,"body":"experience with that."},{"speaker":"James Morris","startTime":1212.36,"endTime":1214.73,"body":"Yeah, I think I"},{"speaker":"James Morris","startTime":1212.36,"endTime":1214.73,"body":"absolutely agree with all of"},{"speaker":"James Morris","startTime":1214.73,"endTime":1218.66,"body":"that. I think it's as again, as"},{"speaker":"James Morris","startTime":1214.73,"endTime":1218.66,"body":"I discussed with Wendy and, you"},{"speaker":"James Morris","startTime":1218.66,"endTime":1221.3,"body":"know, talk about a lot is this"},{"speaker":"James Morris","startTime":1218.66,"endTime":1221.3,"body":"just this, the idea of"},{"speaker":"James Morris","startTime":1221.36,"endTime":1224.75,"body":"alcoholism or alcoholism as"},{"speaker":"James Morris","startTime":1221.36,"endTime":1224.75,"body":"disease, I think sets quite a"},{"speaker":"James Morris","startTime":1224.75,"endTime":1228.44,"body":"high threshold, or at least, you"},{"speaker":"James Morris","startTime":1224.75,"endTime":1228.44,"body":"know, the expectation, or a lot"},{"speaker":"James Morris","startTime":1228.44,"endTime":1231.86,"body":"of the stereotypical beliefs is"},{"speaker":"James Morris","startTime":1228.44,"endTime":1231.86,"body":"that you kind of have to hit a"},{"speaker":"James Morris","startTime":1231.86,"endTime":1234.71,"body":"rock bottom, you know, which I"},{"speaker":"James Morris","startTime":1231.86,"endTime":1234.71,"body":"just don't agree with, I think,"},{"speaker":"James Morris","startTime":1235.1,"endTime":1237.98,"body":"you know, lots of people recover"},{"speaker":"James Morris","startTime":1235.1,"endTime":1237.98,"body":"from alcohol problems without"},{"speaker":"James Morris","startTime":1237.98,"endTime":1242.54,"body":"even identifying themselves as"},{"speaker":"James Morris","startTime":1237.98,"endTime":1242.54,"body":"having had a problem. They were"},{"speaker":"James Morris","startTime":1242.54,"endTime":1245.99,"body":"just much less severe and people"},{"speaker":"James Morris","startTime":1242.54,"endTime":1245.99,"body":"managing their drinking or"},{"speaker":"James Morris","startTime":1245.99,"endTime":1249.2,"body":"cutting down a bit is, you know,"},{"speaker":"James Morris","startTime":1245.99,"endTime":1249.2,"body":"arguably a form of recovery as"},{"speaker":"James Morris","startTime":1249.2,"endTime":1253.43,"body":"well. So I suppose that's my"},{"speaker":"James Morris","startTime":1249.2,"endTime":1253.43,"body":"main reservation about AA is you"},{"speaker":"James Morris","startTime":1253.43,"endTime":1256.46,"body":"know, that it certainly hasn't"},{"speaker":"James Morris","startTime":1253.43,"endTime":1256.46,"body":"deliberately constructed alcohol"},{"speaker":"James Morris","startTime":1256.46,"endTime":1260.27,"body":"problems as a severe idea of"},{"speaker":"James Morris","startTime":1256.46,"endTime":1260.27,"body":"alcohol problems. And, you know,"},{"speaker":"James Morris","startTime":1260.27,"endTime":1263.42,"body":"I think the first article I read"},{"speaker":"James Morris","startTime":1260.27,"endTime":1263.42,"body":"of yours kind of framed it as"},{"speaker":"James Morris","startTime":1263.42,"endTime":1266.96,"body":"the idea of an almost alcoholic"},{"speaker":"James Morris","startTime":1263.42,"endTime":1266.96,"body":"and talked about the continuum"},{"speaker":"James Morris","startTime":1266.96,"endTime":1270.89,"body":"or Shades of Grey, I think"},{"speaker":"James Morris","startTime":1266.96,"endTime":1270.89,"body":"that's so important as, you"},{"speaker":"James Morris","startTime":1270.89,"endTime":1274.1,"body":"know, certainly a group in terms"},{"speaker":"James Morris","startTime":1270.89,"endTime":1274.1,"body":"of, you know, numbers of people"},{"speaker":"James Morris","startTime":1274.1,"endTime":1278.03,"body":"in the population who may, at"},{"speaker":"James Morris","startTime":1274.1,"endTime":1278.03,"body":"some point, develop more serious"},{"speaker":"James Morris","startTime":1278.03,"endTime":1282.05,"body":"alcohol problems that that might"},{"speaker":"James Morris","startTime":1278.03,"endTime":1282.05,"body":"lead them to saying, alright, do"},{"speaker":"James Morris","startTime":1282.14,"endTime":1284.78,"body":"an Alcoholics Anonymous or"},{"speaker":"James Morris","startTime":1282.14,"endTime":1284.78,"body":"disease model is going to work"},{"speaker":"James Morris","startTime":1284.78,"endTime":1288.26,"body":"for them, but many of them won't"},{"speaker":"James Morris","startTime":1284.78,"endTime":1288.26,"body":"ever relate to or perhaps get to"},{"speaker":"James Morris","startTime":1288.26,"endTime":1291.11,"body":"that stage, but may still"},{"speaker":"James Morris","startTime":1288.26,"endTime":1291.11,"body":"experience problems. So it's"},{"speaker":"James Morris","startTime":1291.11,"endTime":1294.8,"body":"trying to unpick it in terms of"},{"speaker":"James Morris","startTime":1291.11,"endTime":1294.8,"body":"there's a sort of tension"},{"speaker":"James Morris","startTime":1294.8,"endTime":1298.46,"body":"between the strict idea of well,"},{"speaker":"James Morris","startTime":1294.8,"endTime":1298.46,"body":"it's not a strict idea, because"},{"speaker":"James Morris","startTime":1298.49,"endTime":1301.7,"body":"again, as Wendy says, it's, it's"},{"speaker":"James Morris","startTime":1298.49,"endTime":1301.7,"body":"still a folk sense. But as soon"},{"speaker":"James Morris","startTime":1301.7,"endTime":1305.39,"body":"as you say, alcoholic, you know,"},{"speaker":"James Morris","startTime":1301.7,"endTime":1305.39,"body":"does create a dichotomy or an"},{"speaker":"James Morris","startTime":1305.39,"endTime":1309.23,"body":"idea of problem drinking is"},{"speaker":"James Morris","startTime":1305.39,"endTime":1309.23,"body":"severe and separate. Whereas I"},{"speaker":"James Morris","startTime":1309.23,"endTime":1311.81,"body":"think, as we both agree that"},{"speaker":"James Morris","startTime":1309.23,"endTime":1311.81,"body":"there are so many shades of"},{"speaker":"James Morris","startTime":1311.81,"endTime":1315.77,"body":"grey, and we both relate to"},{"speaker":"James Morris","startTime":1311.81,"endTime":1315.77,"body":"that, in some ways, having both"},{"speaker":"James Morris","startTime":1315.77,"endTime":1319.34,"body":"used and benefited from a, we"},{"speaker":"James Morris","startTime":1315.77,"endTime":1319.34,"body":"still perhaps don't identify"},{"speaker":"James Morris","startTime":1319.34,"endTime":1322.37,"body":"with that rock bottom narrative"},{"speaker":"James Morris","startTime":1319.34,"endTime":1322.37,"body":"in the way that it may be more"},{"speaker":"James Morris","startTime":1322.37,"endTime":1324.05,"body":"classically portrayed or seen,"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1324.63,"endTime":1326.91,"body":"Well we graduated,"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1324.63,"endTime":1326.91,"body":"didn't we James, which is what"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1326.91,"endTime":1328.98,"body":"you're not supposed to, you're"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1326.91,"endTime":1328.98,"body":"not supposed to graduate from"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1328.98,"endTime":1332.94,"body":"AA. And I laugh at this, because"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1328.98,"endTime":1332.94,"body":"this is what I say to my AA"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1332.94,"endTime":1335.49,"body":"friends. And actually, it makes"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1332.94,"endTime":1335.49,"body":"them feel quite uncomfortable,"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1335.49,"endTime":1339.24,"body":"because they do think you know,"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1335.49,"endTime":1339.24,"body":"some of my friends, not all of"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1339.24,"endTime":1343.8,"body":"them at all. But some would"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1339.24,"endTime":1343.8,"body":"worry as I stopped going to AA"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1343.8,"endTime":1346.59,"body":"because so many people do leave"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1343.8,"endTime":1346.59,"body":"a and then relapse, and then"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1346.59,"endTime":1348.78,"body":"they come back in four years."},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1346.59,"endTime":1348.78,"body":"And they say they've been on"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1348.78,"endTime":1352.08,"body":"this four year relapse. But for"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1348.78,"endTime":1352.08,"body":"me, and maybe that is because of"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1352.29,"endTime":1355.74,"body":"you know, like I sort of ambled"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1352.29,"endTime":1355.74,"body":"into aa rather than crawling"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1355.77,"endTime":1359.76,"body":"into a as the narrative can go"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1355.77,"endTime":1359.76,"body":"sometimes, maybe that's why I've"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1359.76,"endTime":1363.66,"body":"been able to graduate. And I"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1359.76,"endTime":1363.66,"body":"don't know also, even I'm"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1363.66,"endTime":1366.09,"body":"starting to think like, oh God,"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1363.66,"endTime":1366.09,"body":"am I getting a bit too sure of"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1366.09,"endTime":1369.39,"body":"myself in my sobriety. But I"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1366.09,"endTime":1369.39,"body":"don't know, I think one of the"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1369.39,"endTime":1371.4,"body":"other interesting things that"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1369.39,"endTime":1371.4,"body":"you said just then as well,"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1371.43,"endTime":1374.49,"body":"which I've thought about a lot"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1371.43,"endTime":1374.49,"body":"is this idea of the"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1374.55,"endTime":1377.16,"body":"understanding of the word"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1374.55,"endTime":1377.16,"body":"alcoholic outside the rooms of"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1377.16,"endTime":1379.74,"body":"AA, you've introduced me to this"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1377.16,"endTime":1379.74,"body":"idea of the folk understanding"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1379.74,"endTime":1382.62,"body":"of something. So maybe like the"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1379.74,"endTime":1382.62,"body":"folk understanding of alcoholic,"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1382.65,"endTime":1385.26,"body":"that caused me a lot of"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1382.65,"endTime":1385.26,"body":"problems, because then after I'd"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1385.29,"endTime":1388.05,"body":"ident, you know, I identified as"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1385.29,"endTime":1388.05,"body":"an alcoholic in order to stop"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1388.05,"endTime":1390.75,"body":"drinking. So I'd learned that I"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1388.05,"endTime":1390.75,"body":"just needed a desire to stop"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1390.75,"endTime":1393.15,"body":"drinking. And that was all I"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1390.75,"endTime":1393.15,"body":"needed to be able to use, ah,"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1393.15,"endTime":1395.61,"body":"stop drinking. So I was I Oh,"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1393.15,"endTime":1395.61,"body":"brilliant. And then I had to"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1395.61,"endTime":1398.04,"body":"sort of start telling my friends"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1395.61,"endTime":1398.04,"body":"because it'd become this big"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1398.04,"endTime":1400.41,"body":"thing that I was doing, but then"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1398.04,"endTime":1400.41,"body":"they would all be like, but"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1400.41,"endTime":1403.29,"body":"you're not an alcoholic. And of"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1400.41,"endTime":1403.29,"body":"course, they were meaning by"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1403.29,"endTime":1408.93,"body":"that word as sort of really"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1403.29,"endTime":1408.93,"body":"chronic, at the end of the line,"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1408.96,"endTime":1411.78,"body":"alcoholic drinking in the"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1408.96,"endTime":1411.78,"body":"morning kind of thing. But"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1411.78,"endTime":1415.44,"body":"actually, it was really"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1411.78,"endTime":1415.44,"body":"confusing for me because I was"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1415.44,"endTime":1418.29,"body":"sort of torn between the"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1415.44,"endTime":1418.29,"body":"different meanings of this word"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1418.29,"endTime":1421.53,"body":"alcoholic. And that's another"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1418.29,"endTime":1421.53,"body":"way in which a was not that"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1421.53,"endTime":1423.63,"body":"helpful to make. So I had to"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1421.53,"endTime":1423.63,"body":"sort of really battle to"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1423.63,"endTime":1426.18,"body":"identify as being an alcoholic."},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1423.63,"endTime":1426.18,"body":"And then I learned that the word"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1426.18,"endTime":1430.44,"body":"alcoholic isn't even in use"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1426.18,"endTime":1430.44,"body":"really anymore outside of AA, or"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1430.44,"endTime":1434.7,"body":"just on the sort of street. And"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1430.44,"endTime":1434.7,"body":"that is really problematic,"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1434.7,"endTime":1438.27,"body":"which I know is something that"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1434.7,"endTime":1438.27,"body":"you're really aware of. And, and"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1438.27,"endTime":1441.96,"body":"I find that just really"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1438.27,"endTime":1441.96,"body":"infuriating in some ways, and"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1441.96,"endTime":1444.81,"body":"just a real shame. And I wish"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1441.96,"endTime":1444.81,"body":"the AI would just update it"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1444.84,"endTime":1448.62,"body":"materials in some way. But that"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1444.84,"endTime":1448.62,"body":"seems impossible. For some"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1448.62,"endTime":1449.07,"body":"reason."},{"speaker":"James Morris","startTime":1449.27,"endTime":1450.95,"body":"Yeah, certainly"},{"speaker":"James Morris","startTime":1449.27,"endTime":1450.95,"body":"something I've thought about"},{"speaker":"James Morris","startTime":1450.95,"endTime":1455.33,"body":"before is, you know, is there a"},{"speaker":"James Morris","startTime":1450.95,"endTime":1455.33,"body":"way that AA could perhaps"},{"speaker":"James Morris","startTime":1455.36,"endTime":1459.89,"body":"broaden or make an attempt to"},{"speaker":"James Morris","startTime":1455.36,"endTime":1459.89,"body":"broadening the idea of the"},{"speaker":"James Morris","startTime":1459.89,"endTime":1463.13,"body":"alcoholism concept? And, you"},{"speaker":"James Morris","startTime":1459.89,"endTime":1463.13,"body":"know, I, you know, I've often"},{"speaker":"James Morris","startTime":1463.13,"endTime":1466.01,"body":"had these debates about, you"},{"speaker":"James Morris","startTime":1463.13,"endTime":1466.01,"body":"know, in terms of stigma that"},{"speaker":"James Morris","startTime":1466.04,"endTime":1468.68,"body":"that certain people argue, you"},{"speaker":"James Morris","startTime":1466.04,"endTime":1468.68,"body":"know, we should just de"},{"speaker":"James Morris","startTime":1468.68,"endTime":1472.73,"body":"stigmatise the term alcoholic,"},{"speaker":"James Morris","startTime":1468.68,"endTime":1472.73,"body":"but you know, I don't think that"},{"speaker":"James Morris","startTime":1472.73,"endTime":1476.66,"body":"that's possible for a range of"},{"speaker":"James Morris","startTime":1472.73,"endTime":1476.66,"body":"reasons. You know, in the stigma"},{"speaker":"James Morris","startTime":1476.66,"endTime":1479.69,"body":"literature, they kind of maybe"},{"speaker":"James Morris","startTime":1476.66,"endTime":1479.69,"body":"call it revaluing, but the"},{"speaker":"James Morris","startTime":1479.69,"endTime":1483.32,"body":"evidence seems to point or kind"},{"speaker":"James Morris","startTime":1479.69,"endTime":1483.32,"body":"of experts in this kind of"},{"speaker":"James Morris","startTime":1483.32,"endTime":1486.92,"body":"stigma. Researchers seem to"},{"speaker":"James Morris","startTime":1483.32,"endTime":1486.92,"body":"think that once once a term has"},{"speaker":"James Morris","startTime":1486.92,"endTime":1490.97,"body":"such a heavily stigmatised"},{"speaker":"James Morris","startTime":1486.92,"endTime":1490.97,"body":"status, it's very hard to kind"},{"speaker":"James Morris","startTime":1490.97,"endTime":1495.92,"body":"of shift that. So my view is"},{"speaker":"James Morris","startTime":1490.97,"endTime":1495.92,"body":"trying to promote a more of a"},{"speaker":"James Morris","startTime":1495.98,"endTime":1499.49,"body":"continuum understanding or"},{"speaker":"James Morris","startTime":1495.98,"endTime":1499.49,"body":"spectrum idea of alcohol use and"},{"speaker":"James Morris","startTime":1499.49,"endTime":1503.03,"body":"problems. Which, which the idea"},{"speaker":"James Morris","startTime":1499.49,"endTime":1503.03,"body":"of alcoholism just inherently"},{"speaker":"James Morris","startTime":1503.03,"endTime":1506.66,"body":"can't do per se. So that's a"},{"speaker":"James Morris","startTime":1503.03,"endTime":1506.66,"body":"really tricky one. So yeah, I"},{"speaker":"James Morris","startTime":1506.66,"endTime":1509.54,"body":"think, you know, I'd never"},{"speaker":"James Morris","startTime":1506.66,"endTime":1509.54,"body":"encouraged or never discourage"},{"speaker":"James Morris","startTime":1509.54,"endTime":1512.75,"body":"anyone from self identifying"},{"speaker":"James Morris","startTime":1509.54,"endTime":1512.75,"body":"with it if they felt that worked"},{"speaker":"James Morris","startTime":1512.78,"endTime":1516.17,"body":"for them. But in terms of the"},{"speaker":"James Morris","startTime":1512.78,"endTime":1516.17,"body":"just a much broader narrative"},{"speaker":"James Morris","startTime":1516.2,"endTime":1519.05,"body":"that it you know, if you say"},{"speaker":"James Morris","startTime":1516.2,"endTime":1519.05,"body":"alcohol problem for many people"},{"speaker":"James Morris","startTime":1519.05,"endTime":1522.02,"body":"I think alcoholism will just"},{"speaker":"James Morris","startTime":1519.05,"endTime":1522.02,"body":"bring to mind and with that all"},{"speaker":"James Morris","startTime":1522.02,"endTime":1525.47,"body":"the stereotypes about severe"},{"speaker":"James Morris","startTime":1522.02,"endTime":1525.47,"body":"rock bottom, Park bench type"},{"speaker":"James Morris","startTime":1525.47,"endTime":1528.17,"body":"drinkers and so on. And I think"},{"speaker":"James Morris","startTime":1525.47,"endTime":1528.17,"body":"that that was the kind of"},{"speaker":"James Morris","startTime":1528.41,"endTime":1531.86,"body":"strength of the Adrian Charles"},{"speaker":"James Morris","startTime":1528.41,"endTime":1531.86,"body":"documentary, which is"},{"speaker":"James Morris","startTime":1531.89,"endTime":1534.65,"body":"purportedly created this,"},{"speaker":"James Morris","startTime":1531.89,"endTime":1534.65,"body":"Adrian, Charles, effectively,"},{"speaker":"James Morris","startTime":1534.65,"endTime":1537.74,"body":"people coming forward and asking"},{"speaker":"James Morris","startTime":1534.65,"endTime":1537.74,"body":"for help, or downloading apps"},{"speaker":"James Morris","startTime":1537.74,"endTime":1541.28,"body":"and so on. So it's just you're"},{"speaker":"James Morris","startTime":1537.74,"endTime":1541.28,"body":"trying to understand the nuance"},{"speaker":"James Morris","startTime":1541.28,"endTime":1545.09,"body":"of alcohol problems, you know,"},{"speaker":"James Morris","startTime":1541.28,"endTime":1545.09,"body":"recognise that AA can have a"},{"speaker":"James Morris","startTime":1545.09,"endTime":1547.91,"body":"really valuable role for lots of"},{"speaker":"James Morris","startTime":1545.09,"endTime":1547.91,"body":"people. But I think, again,"},{"speaker":"James Morris","startTime":1547.91,"endTime":1551.54,"body":"positive sobriety is a"},{"speaker":"James Morris","startTime":1547.91,"endTime":1551.54,"body":"reflection of how it may be how"},{"speaker":"James Morris","startTime":1551.54,"endTime":1554.48,"body":"there's lots of people where"},{"speaker":"James Morris","startTime":1551.54,"endTime":1554.48,"body":"they kind of want another way to"},{"speaker":"James Morris","startTime":1554.48,"endTime":1557.81,"body":"explore and identify and"},{"speaker":"James Morris","startTime":1554.48,"endTime":1557.81,"body":"understand their drinking. And,"},{"speaker":"James Morris","startTime":1557.84,"endTime":1560.18,"body":"you know, I think that's exactly"},{"speaker":"James Morris","startTime":1557.84,"endTime":1560.18,"body":"as he said, there's so many"},{"speaker":"James Morris","startTime":1560.18,"endTime":1563.51,"body":"positives, you can still draw on"},{"speaker":"James Morris","startTime":1560.18,"endTime":1563.51,"body":"through a engagement, you know,"},{"speaker":"James Morris","startTime":1563.51,"endTime":1566.42,"body":"he said, he said about the kind"},{"speaker":"James Morris","startTime":1563.51,"endTime":1566.42,"body":"of humility and I think that's"},{"speaker":"James Morris","startTime":1566.42,"endTime":1569.51,"body":"fantastic, as well. But yeah, I"},{"speaker":"James Morris","startTime":1566.42,"endTime":1569.51,"body":"mean, you know, in your writing,"},{"speaker":"James Morris","startTime":1569.51,"endTime":1572.18,"body":"I think you do try and unpick"},{"speaker":"James Morris","startTime":1569.51,"endTime":1572.18,"body":"some of those, those"},{"speaker":"James Morris","startTime":1572.18,"endTime":1575.36,"body":"complications don't new and I"},{"speaker":"James Morris","startTime":1572.18,"endTime":1575.36,"body":"suppose it is also just through"},{"speaker":"James Morris","startTime":1575.36,"endTime":1579.86,"body":"having conversations with people"},{"speaker":"James Morris","startTime":1575.36,"endTime":1579.86,"body":"that we may be a better able to"},{"speaker":"James Morris","startTime":1579.89,"endTime":1583.13,"body":"explore the nuance nature of it"},{"speaker":"James Morris","startTime":1579.89,"endTime":1583.13,"body":"and kind of break down those"},{"speaker":"James Morris","startTime":1583.13,"endTime":1584.63,"body":"stereotypes and stigma."},{"speaker":"Chelsey Flood","startTime":1585.47,"endTime":1588.2,"body":"Someone I spoke"},{"speaker":"Chelsey Flood","startTime":1585.47,"endTime":1588.2,"body":"to recently put it in a really"},{"speaker":"Chelsey Flood","startTime":1588.2,"endTime":1592.1,"body":"interesting way, when I was"},{"speaker":"Chelsey Flood","startTime":1588.2,"endTime":1592.1,"body":"talking about getting sober, and"},{"speaker":"Chelsey Flood","startTime":1592.1,"endTime":1596.27,"body":"how it was just much more of a"},{"speaker":"Chelsey Flood","startTime":1592.1,"endTime":1596.27,"body":"comprehensive life change than I"},{"speaker":"Chelsey Flood","startTime":1596.27,"endTime":1598.88,"body":"had really recognised at the"},{"speaker":"Chelsey Flood","startTime":1596.27,"endTime":1598.88,"body":"time. And she said, Well, it's"},{"speaker":"Chelsey Flood","startTime":1598.88,"endTime":1602.03,"body":"actually changing cultures,"},{"speaker":"Chelsey Flood","startTime":1598.88,"endTime":1602.03,"body":"isn't it? And I thought that was"},{"speaker":"Chelsey Flood","startTime":1602.03,"endTime":1604.16,"body":"an incredible way of putting it."},{"speaker":"Chelsey Flood","startTime":1602.03,"endTime":1604.16,"body":"And I think that's really"},{"speaker":"Chelsey Flood","startTime":1604.16,"endTime":1607.82,"body":"accurate. And I think that's why"},{"speaker":"Chelsey Flood","startTime":1604.16,"endTime":1607.82,"body":"it takes it can be such a"},{"speaker":"Chelsey Flood","startTime":1607.82,"endTime":1610.79,"body":"difficult transition. Because"},{"speaker":"Chelsey Flood","startTime":1607.82,"endTime":1610.79,"body":"you know, whichever way you get"},{"speaker":"Chelsey Flood","startTime":1610.79,"endTime":1614.87,"body":"sober, you're starting to relate"},{"speaker":"Chelsey Flood","startTime":1610.79,"endTime":1614.87,"body":"to yourself and other people in"},{"speaker":"Chelsey Flood","startTime":1614.87,"endTime":1619.88,"body":"the world in a completely"},{"speaker":"Chelsey Flood","startTime":1614.87,"endTime":1619.88,"body":"different way. If you are now,"},{"speaker":"Chelsey Flood","startTime":1620.3,"endTime":1623.75,"body":"going from having loved and sort"},{"speaker":"Chelsey Flood","startTime":1620.3,"endTime":1623.75,"body":"of worshipped alcohol, and"},{"speaker":"Chelsey Flood","startTime":1623.75,"endTime":1628.43,"body":"prioritised it and had friends"},{"speaker":"Chelsey Flood","startTime":1623.75,"endTime":1628.43,"body":"who also love it to, you know,"},{"speaker":"Chelsey Flood","startTime":1628.43,"endTime":1630.86,"body":"not engaging with it at all that"},{"speaker":"Chelsey Flood","startTime":1628.43,"endTime":1630.86,"body":"completely cutting it out of"},{"speaker":"Chelsey Flood","startTime":1630.86,"endTime":1633.35,"body":"your life, I mean, it is quite a"},{"speaker":"Chelsey Flood","startTime":1630.86,"endTime":1633.35,"body":"dramatic, it's quite a dramatic"},{"speaker":"Chelsey Flood","startTime":1633.35,"endTime":1637.07,"body":"thing to do. And I know that"},{"speaker":"Chelsey Flood","startTime":1633.35,"endTime":1637.07,"body":"you're really interested in the"},{"speaker":"Chelsey Flood","startTime":1637.07,"endTime":1640.55,"body":"idea of control drinking, and"},{"speaker":"Chelsey Flood","startTime":1637.07,"endTime":1640.55,"body":"the idea, I don't know what you"},{"speaker":"Chelsey Flood","startTime":1640.55,"endTime":1643.22,"body":"think about moderation"},{"speaker":"Chelsey Flood","startTime":1640.55,"endTime":1643.22,"body":"management. But it doesn't have"},{"speaker":"Chelsey Flood","startTime":1643.22,"endTime":1646.85,"body":"to be all or nothing. But for me"},{"speaker":"Chelsey Flood","startTime":1643.22,"endTime":1646.85,"body":"at that time, I wasn't really"},{"speaker":"Chelsey Flood","startTime":1646.85,"endTime":1650.42,"body":"aware of that narrative. And I"},{"speaker":"Chelsey Flood","startTime":1646.85,"endTime":1650.42,"body":"do believe that for me, I needed"},{"speaker":"Chelsey Flood","startTime":1650.42,"endTime":1655.58,"body":"to go completely abstinent at"},{"speaker":"Chelsey Flood","startTime":1650.42,"endTime":1655.58,"body":"that time. And that the idea for"},{"speaker":"Chelsey Flood","startTime":1655.58,"endTime":1659.33,"body":"a long time of control drinking"},{"speaker":"Chelsey Flood","startTime":1655.58,"endTime":1659.33,"body":"was quite scary to me, because I"},{"speaker":"Chelsey Flood","startTime":1659.33,"endTime":1662.81,"body":"just, I'd had to get my head"},{"speaker":"Chelsey Flood","startTime":1659.33,"endTime":1662.81,"body":"around the fact of not drinking"},{"speaker":"Chelsey Flood","startTime":1662.81,"endTime":1665.06,"body":"at all. And that had been this"},{"speaker":"Chelsey Flood","startTime":1662.81,"endTime":1665.06,"body":"huge thing. So then the idea"},{"speaker":"Chelsey Flood","startTime":1665.06,"endTime":1668.03,"body":"that maybe I could drink a"},{"speaker":"Chelsey Flood","startTime":1665.06,"endTime":1668.03,"body":"little bit was, was quite"},{"speaker":"Chelsey Flood","startTime":1668.03,"endTime":1671.21,"body":"confusing, but I'm now"},{"speaker":"Chelsey Flood","startTime":1668.03,"endTime":1671.21,"body":"understanding much more that"},{"speaker":"Chelsey Flood","startTime":1671.21,"endTime":1673.88,"body":"there are different approaches."},{"speaker":"Chelsey Flood","startTime":1671.21,"endTime":1673.88,"body":"And maybe it doesn't have to be"},{"speaker":"Chelsey Flood","startTime":1673.88,"endTime":1677.84,"body":"so much like the idea of"},{"speaker":"Chelsey Flood","startTime":1673.88,"endTime":1677.84,"body":"changing cultures as it is with"},{"speaker":"Chelsey Flood","startTime":1677.84,"endTime":1681.05,"body":"that black and white idea of"},{"speaker":"Chelsey Flood","startTime":1677.84,"endTime":1681.05,"body":"sort of complete abstinence"},{"speaker":"Chelsey Flood","startTime":1681.35,"endTime":1683.78,"body":"versus quite a lot of"},{"speaker":"Chelsey Flood","startTime":1681.35,"endTime":1683.78,"body":"drunkenness."},{"speaker":"James Morris","startTime":1683.809,"endTime":1686.089,"body":"Yeah, I mean, in"},{"speaker":"James Morris","startTime":1683.809,"endTime":1686.089,"body":"terms of moderation management,"},{"speaker":"James Morris","startTime":1686.149,"endTime":1689.359,"body":"I think, you know, it's fairly"},{"speaker":"James Morris","startTime":1686.149,"endTime":1689.359,"body":"well established or fairly"},{"speaker":"James Morris","startTime":1689.359,"endTime":1693.409,"body":"available in terms of face to"},{"speaker":"James Morris","startTime":1689.359,"endTime":1693.409,"body":"face meetings in the States, but"},{"speaker":"James Morris","startTime":1693.409,"endTime":1696.859,"body":"practically non existent in the"},{"speaker":"James Morris","startTime":1693.409,"endTime":1696.859,"body":"UK in terms of face to face"},{"speaker":"James Morris","startTime":1696.859,"endTime":1699.679,"body":"meetings. But I do understand"},{"speaker":"James Morris","startTime":1696.859,"endTime":1699.679,"body":"there's now some obviously,"},{"speaker":"James Morris","startTime":1699.679,"endTime":1703.669,"body":"after the pandemic, online based"},{"speaker":"James Morris","startTime":1699.679,"endTime":1703.669,"body":"meetings more in the kind of"},{"speaker":"James Morris","startTime":1703.699,"endTime":1707.779,"body":"European time zones and so on,"},{"speaker":"James Morris","startTime":1703.699,"endTime":1707.779,"body":"but I did I wasn't I was"},{"speaker":"James Morris","startTime":1707.779,"endTime":1710.989,"body":"contacted a long time ago by"},{"speaker":"James Morris","startTime":1707.779,"endTime":1710.989,"body":"someone who was trying to get"},{"speaker":"James Morris","startTime":1710.989,"endTime":1715.099,"body":"some mm moderation management"},{"speaker":"James Morris","startTime":1710.989,"endTime":1715.099,"body":"meetings going and I kind of"},{"speaker":"James Morris","startTime":1715.129,"endTime":1717.379,"body":"tried to help get them going."},{"speaker":"James Morris","startTime":1715.129,"endTime":1717.379,"body":"But they never really seem to"},{"speaker":"James Morris","startTime":1717.409,"endTime":1720.919,"body":"reach a critical mass. But for a"},{"speaker":"James Morris","startTime":1717.409,"endTime":1720.919,"body":"period of certainly, I don't"},{"speaker":"James Morris","startTime":1720.919,"endTime":1724.669,"body":"know, about six months, I went"},{"speaker":"James Morris","startTime":1720.919,"endTime":1724.669,"body":"with a fairly small group of"},{"speaker":"James Morris","startTime":1724.669,"endTime":1728.089,"body":"people whose goal was"},{"speaker":"James Morris","startTime":1724.669,"endTime":1728.089,"body":"moderation, including myself, I"},{"speaker":"James Morris","startTime":1728.089,"endTime":1730.999,"body":"think at that point, I'd I"},{"speaker":"James Morris","startTime":1728.089,"endTime":1730.999,"body":"didn't drink for eight years."},{"speaker":"James Morris","startTime":1730.999,"endTime":1733.699,"body":"And then, you know, for the last"},{"speaker":"James Morris","startTime":1730.999,"endTime":1733.699,"body":"10 years I have drunk in"},{"speaker":"James Morris","startTime":1733.699,"endTime":1736.189,"body":"moderation. And I think maybe at"},{"speaker":"James Morris","startTime":1733.699,"endTime":1736.189,"body":"that point, I was a couple of"},{"speaker":"James Morris","startTime":1736.189,"endTime":1740.089,"body":"years in and I did find them"},{"speaker":"James Morris","startTime":1736.189,"endTime":1740.089,"body":"useful, just in many ways in the"},{"speaker":"James Morris","startTime":1740.089,"endTime":1744.229,"body":"same way that I found a useful,"},{"speaker":"James Morris","startTime":1740.089,"endTime":1744.229,"body":"though certainly people were,"},{"speaker":"James Morris","startTime":1744.289,"endTime":1747.229,"body":"you know, it wasn't my position"},{"speaker":"James Morris","startTime":1744.289,"endTime":1747.229,"body":"to judge but where you can't"},{"speaker":"James Morris","startTime":1747.259,"endTime":1750.949,"body":"almost can't help but question"},{"speaker":"James Morris","startTime":1747.259,"endTime":1750.949,"body":"perhaps they'd be more suitable"},{"speaker":"James Morris","startTime":1750.949,"endTime":1755.089,"body":"for abstinence. But that's"},{"speaker":"James Morris","startTime":1750.949,"endTime":1755.089,"body":"that's the ongoing debate, isn't"},{"speaker":"James Morris","startTime":1755.089,"endTime":1758.929,"body":"it is that there's no hard and"},{"speaker":"James Morris","startTime":1755.089,"endTime":1758.929,"body":"fast test, but people who want"},{"speaker":"James Morris","startTime":1758.929,"endTime":1762.439,"body":"to change their drinking and"},{"speaker":"James Morris","startTime":1758.929,"endTime":1762.439,"body":"want to try control drinking or"},{"speaker":"James Morris","startTime":1762.439,"endTime":1765.589,"body":"moderation shouldn't be"},{"speaker":"James Morris","startTime":1762.439,"endTime":1765.589,"body":"discouraged from trying to"},{"speaker":"James Morris","startTime":1765.589,"endTime":1768.259,"body":"change their drinking. And in"},{"speaker":"James Morris","startTime":1765.589,"endTime":1768.259,"body":"fact, the evidence does show"},{"speaker":"James Morris","startTime":1768.259,"endTime":1770.869,"body":"that lots of people who start"},{"speaker":"James Morris","startTime":1768.259,"endTime":1770.869,"body":"off with a controlled drinking"},{"speaker":"James Morris","startTime":1770.869,"endTime":1774.529,"body":"goal end up with an abstinence"},{"speaker":"James Morris","startTime":1770.869,"endTime":1774.529,"body":"goal and and succeeding at"},{"speaker":"James Morris","startTime":1774.529,"endTime":1777.559,"body":"abstinence and saying, you know,"},{"speaker":"James Morris","startTime":1774.529,"endTime":1777.559,"body":"I tried it, but it didn't work."},{"speaker":"James Morris","startTime":1777.589,"endTime":1781.009,"body":"I suppose the complicating"},{"speaker":"James Morris","startTime":1777.589,"endTime":1781.009,"body":"factor is more, again, just that"},{"speaker":"James Morris","startTime":1781.009,"endTime":1784.819,"body":"broader population, those people"},{"speaker":"James Morris","startTime":1781.009,"endTime":1784.819,"body":"who perhaps won't ever see"},{"speaker":"James Morris","startTime":1784.819,"endTime":1789.469,"body":"themselves as having enough of a"},{"speaker":"James Morris","startTime":1784.819,"endTime":1789.469,"body":"problem to need to go to a peer"},{"speaker":"James Morris","startTime":1789.469,"endTime":1792.769,"body":"support group, or conversely,"},{"speaker":"James Morris","startTime":1789.469,"endTime":1792.769,"body":"you know, like harm reduction,"},{"speaker":"James Morris","startTime":1792.769,"endTime":1795.949,"body":"people just feeling that they"},{"speaker":"James Morris","startTime":1792.769,"endTime":1795.949,"body":"don't want abstinence or they"},{"speaker":"James Morris","startTime":1795.949,"endTime":1798.739,"body":"don't feel they can achieve"},{"speaker":"James Morris","startTime":1795.949,"endTime":1798.739,"body":"abstinence, but that doesn't"},{"speaker":"James Morris","startTime":1798.739,"endTime":1801.439,"body":"mean you just drink as much as"},{"speaker":"James Morris","startTime":1798.739,"endTime":1801.439,"body":"you can, you know, there's still"},{"speaker":"James Morris","startTime":1801.439,"endTime":1805.009,"body":"huge benefits from literally"},{"speaker":"James Morris","startTime":1801.439,"endTime":1805.009,"body":"controlling your drinking. And"},{"speaker":"James Morris","startTime":1805.009,"endTime":1807.829,"body":"the idea of control the term"},{"speaker":"James Morris","startTime":1805.009,"endTime":1807.829,"body":"control drinking, I don't like"},{"speaker":"James Morris","startTime":1807.829,"endTime":1810.199,"body":"it, because I don't really"},{"speaker":"James Morris","startTime":1807.829,"endTime":1810.199,"body":"relate to that. I'm just someone"},{"speaker":"James Morris","startTime":1810.199,"endTime":1814.939,"body":"who who drinks, you know, for"},{"speaker":"James Morris","startTime":1810.199,"endTime":1814.939,"body":"sort of mild social enhancement"},{"speaker":"James Morris","startTime":1814.969,"endTime":1818.719,"body":"or to complement a meal, but"},{"speaker":"James Morris","startTime":1814.969,"endTime":1818.719,"body":"it's not. If I felt like I had"},{"speaker":"James Morris","startTime":1818.719,"endTime":1821.569,"body":"to control my drinking, I'd"},{"speaker":"James Morris","startTime":1818.719,"endTime":1821.569,"body":"think it was a problem, and"},{"speaker":"James Morris","startTime":1821.569,"endTime":1825.289,"body":"therefore, I wouldn't want to"},{"speaker":"James Morris","startTime":1821.569,"endTime":1825.289,"body":"drink at all, I think I'd want"},{"speaker":"James Morris","startTime":1825.289,"endTime":1826.039,"body":"abstinence."},{"speaker":"Chelsey Flood","startTime":1826.07,"endTime":1827.75,"body":"Yeah, that's"},{"speaker":"Chelsey Flood","startTime":1826.07,"endTime":1827.75,"body":"unfortunate, it's that it's"},{"speaker":"Chelsey Flood","startTime":1827.78,"endTime":1830.06,"body":"gotten the name of control"},{"speaker":"Chelsey Flood","startTime":1827.78,"endTime":1830.06,"body":"drinking, because that does"},{"speaker":"Chelsey Flood","startTime":1830.06,"endTime":1833.96,"body":"immediately suggest to the"},{"speaker":"Chelsey Flood","startTime":1830.06,"endTime":1833.96,"body":"person who's not really sure"},{"speaker":"Chelsey Flood","startTime":1833.96,"endTime":1837.47,"body":"about it, that it's someone you"},{"speaker":"Chelsey Flood","startTime":1833.96,"endTime":1837.47,"body":"know, it's like me before I"},{"speaker":"Chelsey Flood","startTime":1837.47,"endTime":1840.71,"body":"found a, where I was trying to"},{"speaker":"Chelsey Flood","startTime":1837.47,"endTime":1840.71,"body":"control my drinking. And that"},{"speaker":"Chelsey Flood","startTime":1840.71,"endTime":1843.86,"body":"meant that I was just very"},{"speaker":"Chelsey Flood","startTime":1840.71,"endTime":1843.86,"body":"occasionally having a blackout,"},{"speaker":"Chelsey Flood","startTime":1843.86,"endTime":1846.62,"body":"because I totally lost control"},{"speaker":"Chelsey Flood","startTime":1843.86,"endTime":1846.62,"body":"of my drinking, and very often,"},{"speaker":"Chelsey Flood","startTime":1846.83,"endTime":1849.53,"body":"really quite rigidly controlling"},{"speaker":"Chelsey Flood","startTime":1846.83,"endTime":1849.53,"body":"my drinking in this in a"},{"speaker":"Chelsey Flood","startTime":1849.53,"endTime":1852.86,"body":"slightly weird and unpleasant"},{"speaker":"Chelsey Flood","startTime":1849.53,"endTime":1852.86,"body":"and not enjoyable way. So I used"},{"speaker":"Chelsey Flood","startTime":1852.86,"endTime":1855.38,"body":"to do this thing where I just"},{"speaker":"Chelsey Flood","startTime":1852.86,"endTime":1855.38,"body":"used to pour out tiny little"},{"speaker":"Chelsey Flood","startTime":1855.38,"endTime":1857.99,"body":"bits of wine for myself, and"},{"speaker":"Chelsey Flood","startTime":1855.38,"endTime":1857.99,"body":"then put the wine bottle back in"},{"speaker":"Chelsey Flood","startTime":1857.99,"endTime":1860.69,"body":"the fridge to try and just make"},{"speaker":"Chelsey Flood","startTime":1857.99,"endTime":1860.69,"body":"it last longer. And that was,"},{"speaker":"Chelsey Flood","startTime":1860.72,"endTime":1862.61,"body":"you know, that's when I was"},{"speaker":"Chelsey Flood","startTime":1860.72,"endTime":1862.61,"body":"starting to recognise this is a"},{"speaker":"Chelsey Flood","startTime":1862.61,"endTime":1865.91,"body":"bit strange what I'm doing. And"},{"speaker":"Chelsey Flood","startTime":1862.61,"endTime":1865.91,"body":"so yeah, that's a shame because"},{"speaker":"Chelsey Flood","startTime":1865.91,"endTime":1868.25,"body":"that is that word control"},{"speaker":"Chelsey Flood","startTime":1865.91,"endTime":1868.25,"body":"doesn't seem to be the most"},{"speaker":"Chelsey Flood","startTime":1868.25,"endTime":1871.16,"body":"inviting or appealing does it or"},{"speaker":"Chelsey Flood","startTime":1868.25,"endTime":1871.16,"body":"even just like describe what it"},{"speaker":"Chelsey Flood","startTime":1871.16,"endTime":1873.83,"body":"is you're talking about getting"},{"speaker":"Chelsey Flood","startTime":1871.16,"endTime":1873.83,"body":"from the way that you didn't now"},{"speaker":"James Morris","startTime":1873.87,"endTime":1877.08,"body":"Yeah, sort of a"},{"speaker":"James Morris","startTime":1873.87,"endTime":1877.08,"body":"paradox that control drinking is"},{"speaker":"James Morris","startTime":1877.11,"endTime":1881.01,"body":"argued as a valid form of"},{"speaker":"James Morris","startTime":1877.11,"endTime":1881.01,"body":"recovery, but in the way it"},{"speaker":"James Morris","startTime":1881.13,"endTime":1884.58,"body":"sounds, it just doesn't really"},{"speaker":"James Morris","startTime":1881.13,"endTime":1884.58,"body":"kind of sound like that. So some"},{"speaker":"James Morris","startTime":1884.58,"endTime":1888.18,"body":"people, you know, describe it as"},{"speaker":"James Morris","startTime":1884.58,"endTime":1888.18,"body":"non abstinent based recovery or"},{"speaker":"James Morris","startTime":1889.8,"endTime":1894.57,"body":"reduce drinking goals, and Katy"},{"speaker":"James Morris","startTime":1889.8,"endTime":1894.57,"body":"Witkiewitz in America has done"},{"speaker":"James Morris","startTime":1894.6,"endTime":1898.68,"body":"some really good studies. And"},{"speaker":"James Morris","startTime":1894.6,"endTime":1898.68,"body":"she argues that recovery"},{"speaker":"James Morris","startTime":1898.68,"endTime":1902.13,"body":"shouldn't be measured by use of"},{"speaker":"James Morris","startTime":1898.68,"endTime":1902.13,"body":"the substance or not for a whole"},{"speaker":"James Morris","startTime":1902.13,"endTime":1905.79,"body":"range of reasons. But and has"},{"speaker":"James Morris","startTime":1902.13,"endTime":1905.79,"body":"actually shown that some people"},{"speaker":"James Morris","startTime":1905.82,"endTime":1909.21,"body":"experience who might"},{"speaker":"James Morris","startTime":1905.82,"endTime":1909.21,"body":"traditionally be viewed as, as"},{"speaker":"James Morris","startTime":1909.21,"endTime":1912.57,"body":"not successfully recovering"},{"speaker":"James Morris","startTime":1909.21,"endTime":1912.57,"body":"because not in a successful"},{"speaker":"James Morris","startTime":1912.57,"endTime":1915.87,"body":"recovery period, because they're"},{"speaker":"James Morris","startTime":1912.57,"endTime":1915.87,"body":"having some episodes of heavy"},{"speaker":"James Morris","startTime":1915.87,"endTime":1919.14,"body":"drinking, but actually, there"},{"speaker":"James Morris","startTime":1915.87,"endTime":1919.14,"body":"are other outcomes, their mental"},{"speaker":"James Morris","startTime":1919.14,"endTime":1921.87,"body":"well being or social"},{"speaker":"James Morris","startTime":1919.14,"endTime":1921.87,"body":"functioning, etc, are just as"},{"speaker":"James Morris","startTime":1921.87,"endTime":1924.57,"body":"good as the other people that"},{"speaker":"James Morris","startTime":1921.87,"endTime":1924.57,"body":"have achieved abstinence."},{"speaker":"Chelsey Flood","startTime":1924.95,"endTime":1926.93,"body":"yeah, that's a"},{"speaker":"Chelsey Flood","startTime":1924.95,"endTime":1926.93,"body":"really good point as well,"},{"speaker":"Chelsey Flood","startTime":1926.93,"endTime":1929.6,"body":"because I was thinking about how"},{"speaker":"Chelsey Flood","startTime":1926.93,"endTime":1929.6,"body":"about the people who managed to"},{"speaker":"Chelsey Flood","startTime":1929.6,"endTime":1933.14,"body":"abstain, but they don't reach"},{"speaker":"Chelsey Flood","startTime":1929.6,"endTime":1933.14,"body":"any contentment, necessarily, or"},{"speaker":"Chelsey Flood","startTime":1933.14,"endTime":1936.05,"body":"they don't learn about how to"},{"speaker":"Chelsey Flood","startTime":1933.14,"endTime":1936.05,"body":"deal with their issues or talk"},{"speaker":"Chelsey Flood","startTime":1936.05,"endTime":1938.72,"body":"about their feelings. And so"},{"speaker":"Chelsey Flood","startTime":1936.05,"endTime":1938.72,"body":"they I know, a few people who"},{"speaker":"Chelsey Flood","startTime":1938.72,"endTime":1942.14,"body":"managed to not drink. And that's"},{"speaker":"Chelsey Flood","startTime":1938.72,"endTime":1942.14,"body":"usually for periods rather than"},{"speaker":"Chelsey Flood","startTime":1942.41,"endTime":1945.92,"body":"arrive at that completely, but"},{"speaker":"Chelsey Flood","startTime":1942.41,"endTime":1945.92,"body":"it might be for over a year, but"},{"speaker":"Chelsey Flood","startTime":1945.92,"endTime":1949.16,"body":"they have to be in a sort of"},{"speaker":"Chelsey Flood","startTime":1945.92,"endTime":1949.16,"body":"self imposed prison, because the"},{"speaker":"Chelsey Flood","startTime":1949.16,"endTime":1952.37,"body":"only way they can manage it is"},{"speaker":"Chelsey Flood","startTime":1949.16,"endTime":1952.37,"body":"by keeping things really small."},{"speaker":"Chelsey Flood","startTime":1952.43,"endTime":1957.11,"body":"And basically, yeah, just it's"},{"speaker":"Chelsey Flood","startTime":1952.43,"endTime":1957.11,"body":"not quite worked to be something"},{"speaker":"Chelsey Flood","startTime":1957.11,"endTime":1960.26,"body":"livable. It's just hiding, but"},{"speaker":"Chelsey Flood","startTime":1957.11,"endTime":1960.26,"body":"they are abstinent."},{"speaker":"James Morris","startTime":1960.48,"endTime":1962.73,"body":"Yeah, I think they"},{"speaker":"James Morris","startTime":1960.48,"endTime":1962.73,"body":"might kind of call that white"},{"speaker":"James Morris","startTime":1962.73,"endTime":1966.78,"body":"knuckling in the meetings. Yeah."},{"speaker":"James Morris","startTime":1962.73,"endTime":1966.78,"body":"And I think that's so important."},{"speaker":"James Morris","startTime":1966.78,"endTime":1969.87,"body":"Because, you know, again,"},{"speaker":"James Morris","startTime":1966.78,"endTime":1969.87,"body":"thinking about myself that I"},{"speaker":"James Morris","startTime":1969.87,"endTime":1973.14,"body":"stopped drinking, before I"},{"speaker":"James Morris","startTime":1969.87,"endTime":1973.14,"body":"addressed any of the issues that"},{"speaker":"James Morris","startTime":1973.17,"endTime":1977.37,"body":"I think were behind my kind of"},{"speaker":"James Morris","startTime":1973.17,"endTime":1977.37,"body":"problematic drinking. And you"},{"speaker":"James Morris","startTime":1977.37,"endTime":1979.35,"body":"know, it's great, it was good"},{"speaker":"James Morris","startTime":1977.37,"endTime":1979.35,"body":"that I stopped drinking, because"},{"speaker":"James Morris","startTime":1979.35,"endTime":1982.08,"body":"it was having, you know,"},{"speaker":"James Morris","startTime":1979.35,"endTime":1982.08,"body":"negative physical and"},{"speaker":"James Morris","startTime":1982.08,"endTime":1985.71,"body":"psychological effects. But yeah,"},{"speaker":"James Morris","startTime":1982.08,"endTime":1985.71,"body":"it was a long period of"},{"speaker":"James Morris","startTime":1985.71,"endTime":1988.83,"body":"psychotherapy that I think"},{"speaker":"James Morris","startTime":1985.71,"endTime":1988.83,"body":"really helped me unpick the"},{"speaker":"James Morris","startTime":1988.83,"endTime":1991.95,"body":"issues that were behind my"},{"speaker":"James Morris","startTime":1988.83,"endTime":1991.95,"body":"drinking and kind of have taken"},{"speaker":"James Morris","startTime":1991.95,"endTime":1995.64,"body":"away the the motivation to drink"},{"speaker":"James Morris","startTime":1991.95,"endTime":1995.64,"body":"destructively that I used to"},{"speaker":"James Morris","startTime":1995.64,"endTime":1998.37,"body":"have. So yeah, I was gonna ask"},{"speaker":"James Morris","startTime":1995.64,"endTime":1998.37,"body":"you about that what, you know,"},{"speaker":"James Morris","startTime":1998.37,"endTime":2002.12,"body":"you mentioned the culture and"},{"speaker":"James Morris","startTime":1998.37,"endTime":2002.12,"body":"kind of access and just drinking"},{"speaker":"James Morris","startTime":2002.12,"endTime":2005.15,"body":"alcohol at such a young age that"},{"speaker":"James Morris","startTime":2002.12,"endTime":2005.15,"body":"that was almost kind of normal"},{"speaker":"James Morris","startTime":2005.15,"endTime":2008.03,"body":"and liberating. But are there"},{"speaker":"James Morris","startTime":2005.15,"endTime":2008.03,"body":"any other particular things that"},{"speaker":"James Morris","startTime":2008.03,"endTime":2011.24,"body":"you think about in terms of what"},{"speaker":"James Morris","startTime":2008.03,"endTime":2011.24,"body":"attracted you to drinking? And"},{"speaker":"James Morris","startTime":2011.24,"endTime":2014.72,"body":"what has changed that has"},{"speaker":"James Morris","startTime":2011.24,"endTime":2014.72,"body":"enabled you to being happy"},{"speaker":"James Morris","startTime":2014.72,"endTime":2015.95,"body":"without alcohol if you like?"},{"speaker":"Chelsey Flood","startTime":2016.0,"endTime":2020.14,"body":"Yeah, I suppose"},{"speaker":"Chelsey Flood","startTime":2016.0,"endTime":2020.14,"body":"it's, there's so many things,"},{"speaker":"Chelsey Flood","startTime":2020.14,"endTime":2023.86,"body":"but I look back and feel sad"},{"speaker":"Chelsey Flood","startTime":2020.14,"endTime":2023.86,"body":"that I didn't know how"},{"speaker":"Chelsey Flood","startTime":2023.86,"endTime":2027.64,"body":"interesting life was, when I was"},{"speaker":"Chelsey Flood","startTime":2023.86,"endTime":2027.64,"body":"a kid. For some reason, I got"},{"speaker":"Chelsey Flood","startTime":2027.64,"endTime":2031.33,"body":"the idea that the only thing"},{"speaker":"Chelsey Flood","startTime":2027.64,"endTime":2031.33,"body":"that was to do that was fun was"},{"speaker":"Chelsey Flood","startTime":2031.33,"endTime":2037.87,"body":"drink, or take drugs. And I was"},{"speaker":"Chelsey Flood","startTime":2031.33,"endTime":2037.87,"body":"just in place, and I found my"},{"speaker":"Chelsey Flood","startTime":2037.87,"endTime":2041.5,"body":"way into a group where that"},{"speaker":"Chelsey Flood","startTime":2037.87,"endTime":2041.5,"body":"seemed true. You know, like,"},{"speaker":"Chelsey Flood","startTime":2041.5,"endTime":2045.58,"body":"that was my perception. And it"},{"speaker":"Chelsey Flood","startTime":2041.5,"endTime":2045.58,"body":"was true, and I just feel what"},{"speaker":"Chelsey Flood","startTime":2045.58,"endTime":2054.58,"body":"shame that is, and was, and so I"},{"speaker":"Chelsey Flood","startTime":2045.58,"endTime":2054.58,"body":"still now I'm having to relearn"},{"speaker":"Chelsey Flood","startTime":2054.58,"endTime":2056.98,"body":"some of those things. Like how"},{"speaker":"Chelsey Flood","startTime":2054.58,"endTime":2056.98,"body":"do you have fun without"},{"speaker":"Chelsey Flood","startTime":2056.98,"endTime":2062.41,"body":"drinking, because that was true"},{"speaker":"Chelsey Flood","startTime":2056.98,"endTime":2062.41,"body":"for me for so long. And I came"},{"speaker":"Chelsey Flood","startTime":2062.41,"endTime":2067.48,"body":"to understand fun as being a"},{"speaker":"Chelsey Flood","startTime":2062.41,"endTime":2067.48,"body":"certain a certain thing that's"},{"speaker":"Chelsey Flood","startTime":2067.51,"endTime":2071.47,"body":"quite, I guess, you know, like a"},{"speaker":"Chelsey Flood","startTime":2067.51,"endTime":2071.47,"body":"lot of different feelings all at"},{"speaker":"Chelsey Flood","startTime":2071.47,"endTime":2075.94,"body":"the same time, a lot of kind of"},{"speaker":"Chelsey Flood","startTime":2071.47,"endTime":2075.94,"body":"giddiness and hilarity and"},{"speaker":"Chelsey Flood","startTime":2075.97,"endTime":2081.91,"body":"wildness and unpredictability."},{"speaker":"Chelsey Flood","startTime":2075.97,"endTime":2081.91,"body":"And now I'm learning about how"},{"speaker":"Chelsey Flood","startTime":2081.91,"endTime":2084.76,"body":"to, I don't know if fun is even"},{"speaker":"Chelsey Flood","startTime":2081.91,"endTime":2084.76,"body":"the right word. I don't know if"},{"speaker":"Chelsey Flood","startTime":2084.76,"endTime":2088.0,"body":"that's a problem, but like how"},{"speaker":"Chelsey Flood","startTime":2084.76,"endTime":2088.0,"body":"to enjoy myself without"},{"speaker":"Chelsey Flood","startTime":2088.0,"endTime":2091.75,"body":"drinking. And it turns out,"},{"speaker":"Chelsey Flood","startTime":2088.0,"endTime":2091.75,"body":"there's so many ways and it's of"},{"speaker":"Chelsey Flood","startTime":2091.75,"endTime":2094.36,"body":"course, now it seems to me very"},{"speaker":"Chelsey Flood","startTime":2091.75,"endTime":2094.36,"body":"strange that I didn't realise"},{"speaker":"Chelsey Flood","startTime":2094.36,"endTime":2097.96,"body":"that. And also, it turns out"},{"speaker":"Chelsey Flood","startTime":2094.36,"endTime":2097.96,"body":"that for me, when I'm not"},{"speaker":"Chelsey Flood","startTime":2097.96,"endTime":2101.11,"body":"drinking, I actually don't like"},{"speaker":"Chelsey Flood","startTime":2097.96,"endTime":2101.11,"body":"those involved. moments that are"},{"speaker":"Chelsey Flood","startTime":2101.14,"endTime":2106.09,"body":"wild and unpredictable, and"},{"speaker":"Chelsey Flood","startTime":2101.14,"endTime":2106.09,"body":"noisy, and anything goes. And"},{"speaker":"Chelsey Flood","startTime":2106.09,"endTime":2109.66,"body":"actually, I am a very"},{"speaker":"Chelsey Flood","startTime":2106.09,"endTime":2109.66,"body":"conscientious, gentle sort of"},{"speaker":"Chelsey Flood","startTime":2109.66,"endTime":2113.2,"body":"person. And perhaps that didn't"},{"speaker":"Chelsey Flood","startTime":2109.66,"endTime":2113.2,"body":"feel as welcome. When I was"},{"speaker":"Chelsey Flood","startTime":2113.2,"endTime":2117.01,"body":"growing up, I wasn't really"},{"speaker":"Chelsey Flood","startTime":2113.2,"endTime":2117.01,"body":"shown that that was an OK way to"},{"speaker":"Chelsey Flood","startTime":2117.01,"endTime":2120.31,"body":"be. So I felt I had to be"},{"speaker":"Chelsey Flood","startTime":2117.01,"endTime":2120.31,"body":"different. And, you know,"},{"speaker":"Chelsey Flood","startTime":2120.31,"endTime":2122.68,"body":"there's been such an explosion"},{"speaker":"Chelsey Flood","startTime":2120.31,"endTime":2122.68,"body":"of understanding around"},{"speaker":"Chelsey Flood","startTime":2122.71,"endTime":2126.04,"body":"neurodiversity, and different"},{"speaker":"Chelsey Flood","startTime":2122.71,"endTime":2126.04,"body":"temperaments and different"},{"speaker":"Chelsey Flood","startTime":2126.04,"endTime":2129.55,"body":"sensitivities. So I guess the"},{"speaker":"Chelsey Flood","startTime":2126.04,"endTime":2129.55,"body":"Susan Cain book, quiet was a"},{"speaker":"Chelsey Flood","startTime":2129.55,"endTime":2133.21,"body":"really big thing for me learning"},{"speaker":"Chelsey Flood","startTime":2129.55,"endTime":2133.21,"body":"about being an introvert, and"},{"speaker":"Chelsey Flood","startTime":2133.33,"endTime":2135.76,"body":"the fact that being an introvert"},{"speaker":"Chelsey Flood","startTime":2133.33,"endTime":2135.76,"body":"doesn't mean you can't be a"},{"speaker":"Chelsey Flood","startTime":2135.76,"endTime":2138.52,"body":"leader, for instance. And I"},{"speaker":"Chelsey Flood","startTime":2135.76,"endTime":2138.52,"body":"suppose this is, again, why I"},{"speaker":"Chelsey Flood","startTime":2138.52,"endTime":2142.12,"body":"say that I had so much to learn"},{"speaker":"Chelsey Flood","startTime":2138.52,"endTime":2142.12,"body":"in the process of getting sober"},{"speaker":"Chelsey Flood","startTime":2142.12,"endTime":2145.15,"body":"about myself and about different"},{"speaker":"Chelsey Flood","startTime":2142.12,"endTime":2145.15,"body":"ways of being in the world, and"},{"speaker":"Chelsey Flood","startTime":2145.18,"endTime":2148.06,"body":"just about what I had come to"},{"speaker":"Chelsey Flood","startTime":2145.18,"endTime":2148.06,"body":"believe. And that's ongoing."},{"speaker":"Chelsey Flood","startTime":2148.06,"endTime":2151.24,"body":"Like I say, you know, I now do"},{"speaker":"Chelsey Flood","startTime":2148.06,"endTime":2151.24,"body":"lots of different things. I've"},{"speaker":"Chelsey Flood","startTime":2151.24,"endTime":2154.48,"body":"recently started doing"},{"speaker":"Chelsey Flood","startTime":2151.24,"endTime":2154.48,"body":"watercolour painting. And by"},{"speaker":"Chelsey Flood","startTime":2154.48,"endTime":2156.46,"body":"that, I mean, I've done one"},{"speaker":"Chelsey Flood","startTime":2154.48,"endTime":2156.46,"body":"watercolour painting, but I"},{"speaker":"Chelsey Flood","startTime":2156.46,"endTime":2160.24,"body":"really enjoyed it. And, you"},{"speaker":"Chelsey Flood","startTime":2156.46,"endTime":2160.24,"body":"know, listening to music and"},{"speaker":"Chelsey Flood","startTime":2160.24,"endTime":2163.54,"body":"doing a painting, or I spend a"},{"speaker":"Chelsey Flood","startTime":2160.24,"endTime":2163.54,"body":"hell of a lot of time just"},{"speaker":"Chelsey Flood","startTime":2163.54,"endTime":2166.45,"body":"having conversations with my"},{"speaker":"Chelsey Flood","startTime":2163.54,"endTime":2166.45,"body":"friends now. And it turns out,"},{"speaker":"Chelsey Flood","startTime":2166.45,"endTime":2168.43,"body":"you don't need to have a drink"},{"speaker":"Chelsey Flood","startTime":2166.45,"endTime":2168.43,"body":"to have an interesting"},{"speaker":"Chelsey Flood","startTime":2168.43,"endTime":2171.22,"body":"conversation with your friend,"},{"speaker":"Chelsey Flood","startTime":2168.43,"endTime":2171.22,"body":"not at all. And it's much better"},{"speaker":"Chelsey Flood","startTime":2171.22,"endTime":2173.86,"body":"if you don't, because you"},{"speaker":"Chelsey Flood","startTime":2171.22,"endTime":2173.86,"body":"remember everything. And I've"},{"speaker":"Chelsey Flood","startTime":2173.86,"endTime":2178.09,"body":"also had the experience of going"},{"speaker":"Chelsey Flood","startTime":2173.86,"endTime":2178.09,"body":"out for drinks with my lovely"},{"speaker":"Chelsey Flood","startTime":2178.09,"endTime":2181.09,"body":"conscientious friends who do"},{"speaker":"Chelsey Flood","startTime":2178.09,"endTime":2181.09,"body":"still drink and seeing them turn"},{"speaker":"Chelsey Flood","startTime":2181.09,"endTime":2184.33,"body":"into these completely different"},{"speaker":"Chelsey Flood","startTime":2181.09,"endTime":2184.33,"body":"people. And actually, for me,"},{"speaker":"Chelsey Flood","startTime":2184.33,"endTime":2187.54,"body":"now, in this new sensibility"},{"speaker":"Chelsey Flood","startTime":2184.33,"endTime":2187.54,"body":"that I have, I don't enjoy that"},{"speaker":"Chelsey Flood","startTime":2187.54,"endTime":2190.18,"body":"as much. And it makes me want to"},{"speaker":"Chelsey Flood","startTime":2187.54,"endTime":2190.18,"body":"go home when people start"},{"speaker":"Chelsey Flood","startTime":2190.18,"endTime":2194.65,"body":"getting rowdy. So yeah, for me,"},{"speaker":"Chelsey Flood","startTime":2190.18,"endTime":2194.65,"body":"it has been such a huge shift."},{"speaker":"Chelsey Flood","startTime":2194.8,"endTime":2198.31,"body":"And a massive part of that has"},{"speaker":"Chelsey Flood","startTime":2194.8,"endTime":2198.31,"body":"been just learning to say what"},{"speaker":"Chelsey Flood","startTime":2198.31,"endTime":2202.18,"body":"I'm thinking. So for so many"},{"speaker":"Chelsey Flood","startTime":2198.31,"endTime":2202.18,"body":"years, I just wouldn't really"},{"speaker":"Chelsey Flood","startTime":2202.18,"endTime":2205.18,"body":"share what I was thinking, I"},{"speaker":"Chelsey Flood","startTime":2202.18,"endTime":2205.18,"body":"found it incredibly difficult to"},{"speaker":"Chelsey Flood","startTime":2205.18,"endTime":2209.29,"body":"tell people the truth or tell"},{"speaker":"Chelsey Flood","startTime":2205.18,"endTime":2209.29,"body":"myself the truth, probably. And"},{"speaker":"Chelsey Flood","startTime":2209.29,"endTime":2211.39,"body":"that's why I love to drink"},{"speaker":"Chelsey Flood","startTime":2209.29,"endTime":2211.39,"body":"because it just allowed me to"},{"speaker":"Chelsey Flood","startTime":2211.39,"endTime":2214.93,"body":"just say stuff. And and now I've"},{"speaker":"Chelsey Flood","startTime":2211.39,"endTime":2214.93,"body":"had to really work on just"},{"speaker":"Chelsey Flood","startTime":2214.93,"endTime":2218.62,"body":"saying stuff in spite of being"},{"speaker":"Chelsey Flood","startTime":2214.93,"endTime":2218.62,"body":"sober all the time. Because"},{"speaker":"Chelsey Flood","startTime":2218.62,"endTime":2222.4,"body":"saying stuff is how you join in"},{"speaker":"Chelsey Flood","startTime":2218.62,"endTime":2222.4,"body":"and saying stuff is how you"},{"speaker":"Chelsey Flood","startTime":2222.43,"endTime":2225.31,"body":"create a life and have an"},{"speaker":"Chelsey Flood","startTime":2222.43,"endTime":2225.31,"body":"interesting time. So of course,"},{"speaker":"Chelsey Flood","startTime":2225.31,"endTime":2228.25,"body":"if you don't know how to say"},{"speaker":"Chelsey Flood","startTime":2225.31,"endTime":2228.25,"body":"stuff is quite an obstacle. And"},{"speaker":"Chelsey Flood","startTime":2228.25,"endTime":2229.69,"body":"do you mean by saying stuff? Do"},{"speaker":"James Morris","startTime":2229.63,"endTime":2232.36,"body":"You mean just"},{"speaker":"James Morris","startTime":2229.63,"endTime":2232.36,"body":"interacting socially, rather"},{"speaker":"James Morris","startTime":2232.36,"endTime":2234.91,"body":"than, you know, having something"},{"speaker":"James Morris","startTime":2232.36,"endTime":2234.91,"body":"that you want to tell someone"},{"speaker":"James Morris","startTime":2234.91,"endTime":2237.31,"body":"that you might fear that they"},{"speaker":"James Morris","startTime":2234.91,"endTime":2237.31,"body":"they're not going to like what"},{"speaker":"James Morris","startTime":2237.31,"endTime":2237.79,"body":"you say"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2237.82,"endTime":2240.31,"body":"No, I mean, literally"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2237.82,"endTime":2240.31,"body":"saying things. So just, you"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2240.31,"endTime":2243.76,"body":"know, sharing how you feel, and"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2240.31,"endTime":2243.76,"body":"what you believe about things."},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2243.76,"endTime":2246.34,"body":"And you know, risking being"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2243.76,"endTime":2246.34,"body":"boring as well, because that"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2246.34,"endTime":2249.52,"body":"used to be a really big fear of"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2246.34,"endTime":2249.52,"body":"mine. Now, I'm incredibly boring"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2249.52,"endTime":2254.02,"body":"and much happier about it. But"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2249.52,"endTime":2254.02,"body":"just I just mean, I mean, I"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2254.02,"endTime":2256.9,"body":"maybe will now mention as well"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2254.02,"endTime":2256.9,"body":"that I did recently get a"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2256.9,"endTime":2260.86,"body":"diagnosis of autism. So perhaps"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2256.9,"endTime":2260.86,"body":"some of those things were harder"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2260.86,"endTime":2265.03,"body":"for me, because I yeah, I don't"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2260.86,"endTime":2265.03,"body":"know, maybe experience the world"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2265.03,"endTime":2269.11,"body":"slightly differently. But for"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2265.03,"endTime":2269.11,"body":"me, just saying anything, felt"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2269.11,"endTime":2272.14,"body":"incredibly risky, because I was"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2269.11,"endTime":2272.14,"body":"so worried about making a"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2272.14,"endTime":2274.81,"body":"mistake. And often what I would"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2272.14,"endTime":2274.81,"body":"say would be deemed weird,"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2274.84,"endTime":2278.23,"body":"because I would have maybe"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2274.84,"endTime":2278.23,"body":"misjudged the situation, or I"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2278.23,"endTime":2281.59,"body":"find it incredibly difficult to"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2278.23,"endTime":2281.59,"body":"have a filter. So I can I have"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2281.59,"endTime":2285.01,"body":"to work overtime to be"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2281.59,"endTime":2285.01,"body":"appropriate sometimes. Because I"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2285.04,"endTime":2289.3,"body":"am naturally a chronic"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2285.04,"endTime":2289.3,"body":"oversharer, which you would"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2289.3,"endTime":2293.02,"body":"notice if you've read my blog,"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2289.3,"endTime":2293.02,"body":"and that has over the years made"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2293.02,"endTime":2295.54,"body":"people be uncomfortable"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2293.02,"endTime":2295.54,"body":"sometimes, or I've kind of"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2295.57,"endTime":2300.19,"body":"picked up on that. So I think as"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2295.57,"endTime":2300.19,"body":"a kid, that drove me deeper"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2300.19,"endTime":2304.6,"body":"inside myself, and made me have"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2300.19,"endTime":2304.6,"body":"a fear of not only speaking up"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2304.6,"endTime":2307.24,"body":"about different, difficult and"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2304.6,"endTime":2307.24,"body":"challenging things, but"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2307.24,"endTime":2311.02,"body":"literally just saying stuff that"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2307.24,"endTime":2311.02,"body":"I was thinking. And so drinking"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2311.02,"endTime":2314.92,"body":"was, of course, a huge reprieve"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2311.02,"endTime":2314.92,"body":"for me, because I didn't have to"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2314.92,"endTime":2317.05,"body":"worry. But then of course, I got"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2314.92,"endTime":2317.05,"body":"myself into trouble because I"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2317.05,"endTime":2319.72,"body":"said literally everything that"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2317.05,"endTime":2319.72,"body":"was going through my head, and"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2319.72,"endTime":2322.18,"body":"people find that really fun. But"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2319.72,"endTime":2322.18,"body":"when you wake up the next day,"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2322.18,"endTime":2324.97,"body":"and remember some flashbacks of"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2322.18,"endTime":2324.97,"body":"weird stuff, you've said, it's"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2324.97,"endTime":2326.29,"body":"quite upsetting."},{"speaker":"James Morris","startTime":2326.38,"endTime":2329.29,"body":"So interesting."},{"speaker":"James Morris","startTime":2326.38,"endTime":2329.29,"body":"And when you said I'm an"},{"speaker":"James Morris","startTime":2329.29,"endTime":2332.17,"body":"oversharer, I felt, if you don't"},{"speaker":"James Morris","startTime":2329.29,"endTime":2332.17,"body":"mind me saying, I felt that"},{"speaker":"James Morris","startTime":2332.2,"endTime":2334.42,"body":"well, it's not that you're an"},{"speaker":"James Morris","startTime":2332.2,"endTime":2334.42,"body":"oversharer, it's just that"},{"speaker":"James Morris","startTime":2334.42,"endTime":2337.9,"body":"you're a very open person. And"},{"speaker":"James Morris","startTime":2334.42,"endTime":2337.9,"body":"for some people that might be"},{"speaker":"James Morris","startTime":2337.93,"endTime":2340.6,"body":"threatening or uncomfortable."},{"speaker":"James Morris","startTime":2337.93,"endTime":2340.6,"body":"And that could be for a whole"},{"speaker":"James Morris","startTime":2340.6,"endTime":2343.75,"body":"range of reasons, possibly,"},{"speaker":"James Morris","startTime":2340.6,"endTime":2343.75,"body":"because, you know, on some"},{"speaker":"James Morris","startTime":2343.75,"endTime":2347.53,"body":"level, perhaps they'd like to be"},{"speaker":"James Morris","startTime":2343.75,"endTime":2347.53,"body":"able to share more or be more"},{"speaker":"James Morris","startTime":2347.53,"endTime":2350.8,"body":"open about their own stuff. And,"},{"speaker":"James Morris","startTime":2347.53,"endTime":2350.8,"body":"you know, don't feel able to do"},{"speaker":"James Morris","startTime":2350.8,"endTime":2354.1,"body":"that. But definitely I relate to"},{"speaker":"James Morris","startTime":2350.8,"endTime":2354.1,"body":"that, that that alcohol used to"},{"speaker":"James Morris","startTime":2354.1,"endTime":2358.39,"body":"give me a feeling that I could"},{"speaker":"James Morris","startTime":2354.1,"endTime":2358.39,"body":"just let go of something that I"},{"speaker":"James Morris","startTime":2358.39,"endTime":2361.69,"body":"needed to let go of, and I you"},{"speaker":"James Morris","startTime":2358.39,"endTime":2361.69,"body":"know, I can't really still to"},{"speaker":"James Morris","startTime":2361.69,"endTime":2365.83,"body":"this day, put an exact name or"},{"speaker":"James Morris","startTime":2361.69,"endTime":2365.83,"body":"idea on what it was, but it was"},{"speaker":"James Morris","startTime":2365.83,"endTime":2369.67,"body":"something that I wanted to let"},{"speaker":"James Morris","startTime":2365.83,"endTime":2369.67,"body":"go. So I think that that"},{"speaker":"James Morris","startTime":2369.67,"endTime":2372.73,"body":"description is really, really"},{"speaker":"James Morris","startTime":2369.67,"endTime":2372.73,"body":"powerful. And when you say"},{"speaker":"James Morris","startTime":2372.79,"endTime":2376.12,"body":"alcohol, you know, as a source"},{"speaker":"James Morris","startTime":2372.79,"endTime":2376.12,"body":"of you know, the way you viewed"},{"speaker":"James Morris","startTime":2376.12,"endTime":2379.09,"body":"it as a way of having fun again,"},{"speaker":"James Morris","startTime":2376.12,"endTime":2379.09,"body":"I relate to that, but when I"},{"speaker":"James Morris","startTime":2379.09,"endTime":2382.78,"body":"look back on it, I do struggle"},{"speaker":"James Morris","startTime":2379.09,"endTime":2382.78,"body":"with was it really having fun or"},{"speaker":"James Morris","startTime":2382.78,"endTime":2386.47,"body":"was it letting go of something"},{"speaker":"James Morris","startTime":2382.78,"endTime":2386.47,"body":"that I felt I needed to let go"},{"speaker":"James Morris","startTime":2386.47,"endTime":2390.85,"body":"of and see you know, the two"},{"speaker":"James Morris","startTime":2386.47,"endTime":2390.85,"body":"become conflated and yeah, and"},{"speaker":"James Morris","startTime":2390.88,"endTime":2394.78,"body":"then so much of it is about the"},{"speaker":"James Morris","startTime":2390.88,"endTime":2394.78,"body":"expectancies that you know, we"},{"speaker":"James Morris","startTime":2394.81,"endTime":2397.84,"body":"if you want to let go then"},{"speaker":"James Morris","startTime":2394.81,"endTime":2397.84,"body":"drinking environments are the"},{"speaker":"James Morris","startTime":2397.84,"endTime":2400.6,"body":"environments in which you can do"},{"speaker":"James Morris","startTime":2397.84,"endTime":2400.6,"body":"that. And then Even when I"},{"speaker":"James Morris","startTime":2400.6,"endTime":2403.36,"body":"stopped drinking, I would still"},{"speaker":"James Morris","startTime":2400.6,"endTime":2403.36,"body":"actually go out and still kind"},{"speaker":"James Morris","startTime":2403.36,"endTime":2406.6,"body":"of let go and be like, well, I"},{"speaker":"James Morris","startTime":2403.36,"endTime":2406.6,"body":"don't actually need alcohol to"},{"speaker":"James Morris","startTime":2406.6,"endTime":2410.11,"body":"be a bit extroverted or be a bit"},{"speaker":"James Morris","startTime":2406.6,"endTime":2410.11,"body":"wild, or you know, that kind of"},{"speaker":"James Morris","startTime":2410.11,"endTime":2411.43,"body":"stuff. Yeah,"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2411.79,"endTime":2413.86,"body":"Yeah, I had that"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2411.79,"endTime":2413.86,"body":"experience too. And for me,"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2413.86,"endTime":2416.89,"body":"unfortunately, I'm pretty much"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2413.86,"endTime":2416.89,"body":"never in the mood to get to that"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2416.89,"endTime":2419.41,"body":"point. And that's what I'll call"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2416.89,"endTime":2419.41,"body":"used to do for me is that it"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2419.41,"endTime":2422.65,"body":"used to just get me in the mood"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2419.41,"endTime":2422.65,"body":"to socialise because I am such"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2422.65,"endTime":2427.06,"body":"an introvert. And also now I'm"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2422.65,"endTime":2427.06,"body":"identifying as autistic, or, you"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2427.06,"endTime":2429.91,"body":"know, I've got this diagnosis"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2427.06,"endTime":2429.91,"body":"there. So it makes sense how"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2429.91,"endTime":2434.35,"body":"much I do enjoy solitude a"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2429.91,"endTime":2434.35,"body":"little bit more. But I also when"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2434.35,"endTime":2437.41,"body":"I've been forced to have a good"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2434.35,"endTime":2437.41,"body":"time, so it's someone's wedding"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2437.41,"endTime":2439.9,"body":"or a birthday party, so I have"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2437.41,"endTime":2439.9,"body":"to go cuz I want to be a good"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2439.9,"endTime":2442.33,"body":"friend. And then I will have a"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2439.9,"endTime":2442.33,"body":"fantastic time, and I'll be able"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2442.33,"endTime":2446.2,"body":"to dance. And I will have chats"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2442.33,"endTime":2446.2,"body":"with strangers. And I'll be,"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2446.26,"endTime":2448.84,"body":"it'll be all the highlights of"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2446.26,"endTime":2448.84,"body":"what I've got from drinking"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2448.84,"endTime":2451.21,"body":"without any of the negatives."},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2448.84,"endTime":2451.21,"body":"And then I really do feel like"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2451.21,"endTime":2454.27,"body":"I've broken the code to living"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2451.21,"endTime":2454.27,"body":"because I just think, wow, you"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2454.27,"endTime":2457.9,"body":"know, you can do this stuff"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2454.27,"endTime":2457.9,"body":"sober. And I wonder as well, I"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2457.9,"endTime":2460.33,"body":"used to think that I needed the"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2457.9,"endTime":2460.33,"body":"other people around drinking to"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2460.33,"endTime":2462.97,"body":"get to that point. But over"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2460.33,"endTime":2462.97,"body":"time, I've realised that that's"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2462.97,"endTime":2466.63,"body":"not even true. Like, if everyone"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2462.97,"endTime":2466.63,"body":"wasn't drinking, I believe that"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2466.63,"endTime":2469.15,"body":"we could still get to that"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2466.63,"endTime":2469.15,"body":"point, you just sort of I think"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2469.15,"endTime":2472.3,"body":"it's about being able to"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2469.15,"endTime":2472.3,"body":"tolerate social awkwardness. And"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2472.36,"endTime":2475.54,"body":"I was unable to tolerate social"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2472.36,"endTime":2475.54,"body":"awkwardness, and everyone in my"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2475.54,"endTime":2478.09,"body":"family was unable to tolerate"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2475.54,"endTime":2478.09,"body":"social awkwardness, too. And so"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2478.09,"endTime":2480.82,"body":"we all relied on drink. And"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2478.09,"endTime":2480.82,"body":"actually, if you can just"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2480.82,"endTime":2483.88,"body":"tolerate sort of 20 minutes of"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2480.82,"endTime":2483.88,"body":"social awkwardness while people"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2483.88,"endTime":2486.79,"body":"get into the groove of each"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2483.88,"endTime":2486.79,"body":"other, you can everyone can have"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2486.79,"endTime":2487.78,"body":"a nice time."},{"speaker":"James Morris","startTime":2487.81,"endTime":2490.69,"body":"I think that's so"},{"speaker":"James Morris","startTime":2487.81,"endTime":2490.69,"body":"powerful. And I think, you know,"},{"speaker":"James Morris","startTime":2490.69,"endTime":2494.29,"body":"the the idea of an uncomfortable"},{"speaker":"James Morris","startTime":2490.69,"endTime":2494.29,"body":"silence, you know, certainly,"},{"speaker":"James Morris","startTime":2494.32,"endTime":2497.53,"body":"you know, in a therapeutic"},{"speaker":"James Morris","startTime":2494.32,"endTime":2497.53,"body":"intervention or even in just in"},{"speaker":"James Morris","startTime":2497.53,"endTime":2500.92,"body":"personal interactions, if you're"},{"speaker":"James Morris","startTime":2497.53,"endTime":2500.92,"body":"if you're discussing something,"},{"speaker":"James Morris","startTime":2500.95,"endTime":2504.1,"body":"you know, a moment silence can"},{"speaker":"James Morris","startTime":2500.95,"endTime":2504.1,"body":"be really important to allow"},{"speaker":"James Morris","startTime":2504.13,"endTime":2507.28,"body":"people to reflect on what the"},{"speaker":"James Morris","startTime":2504.13,"endTime":2507.28,"body":"other person said, or just what"},{"speaker":"James Morris","startTime":2507.28,"endTime":2509.77,"body":"they've said or how they're"},{"speaker":"James Morris","startTime":2507.28,"endTime":2509.77,"body":"feeling. But yeah, again, it"},{"speaker":"James Morris","startTime":2509.77,"endTime":2513.28,"body":"seems to be just socially"},{"speaker":"James Morris","startTime":2509.77,"endTime":2513.28,"body":"conditioned that if you have a"},{"speaker":"James Morris","startTime":2513.28,"endTime":2515.95,"body":"silence, it has to be"},{"speaker":"James Morris","startTime":2513.28,"endTime":2515.95,"body":"uncomfortable. It's labelled as"},{"speaker":"James Morris","startTime":2515.95,"endTime":2516.67,"body":"uncomfortable."},{"speaker":"Chelsey Flood","startTime":2516.7,"endTime":2519.88,"body":"Yeah, I've had to"},{"speaker":"Chelsey Flood","startTime":2516.7,"endTime":2519.88,"body":"train myself to accept silences."},{"speaker":"Chelsey Flood","startTime":2519.91,"endTime":2522.13,"body":"And especially in teaching,"},{"speaker":"Chelsey Flood","startTime":2519.91,"endTime":2522.13,"body":"actually, because it's really"},{"speaker":"Chelsey Flood","startTime":2522.13,"endTime":2524.5,"body":"important that you don't just"},{"speaker":"Chelsey Flood","startTime":2522.13,"endTime":2524.5,"body":"answer your own questions as a"},{"speaker":"Chelsey Flood","startTime":2524.5,"endTime":2528.07,"body":"teacher. And it can be a real"},{"speaker":"Chelsey Flood","startTime":2524.5,"endTime":2528.07,"body":"newbie mistake that you ask a"},{"speaker":"Chelsey Flood","startTime":2528.07,"endTime":2530.29,"body":"question. And then you"},{"speaker":"Chelsey Flood","startTime":2528.07,"endTime":2530.29,"body":"immediately like, Oh, my God,"},{"speaker":"Chelsey Flood","startTime":2530.29,"endTime":2532.87,"body":"it's awkward silence, and then"},{"speaker":"Chelsey Flood","startTime":2530.29,"endTime":2532.87,"body":"you just answer it. So you know,"},{"speaker":"Chelsey Flood","startTime":2532.87,"endTime":2534.88,"body":"you're kind of getting in the"},{"speaker":"Chelsey Flood","startTime":2532.87,"endTime":2534.88,"body":"way of everyone. And I think"},{"speaker":"Chelsey Flood","startTime":2534.88,"endTime":2537.22,"body":"it's just the same in"},{"speaker":"Chelsey Flood","startTime":2534.88,"endTime":2537.22,"body":"conversations as well. People"},{"speaker":"Chelsey Flood","startTime":2537.25,"endTime":2540.49,"body":"need a little minute to process"},{"speaker":"Chelsey Flood","startTime":2537.25,"endTime":2540.49,"body":"things. And if you can learn to"},{"speaker":"Chelsey Flood","startTime":2540.49,"endTime":2544.15,"body":"tolerate that little silence,"},{"speaker":"Chelsey Flood","startTime":2540.49,"endTime":2544.15,"body":"more interesting things happen."},{"speaker":"Chelsey Flood","startTime":2544.18,"endTime":2547.54,"body":"And as with everything else, you"},{"speaker":"Chelsey Flood","startTime":2544.18,"endTime":2547.54,"body":"become more tolerant of that"},{"speaker":"Chelsey Flood","startTime":2547.57,"endTime":2548.53,"body":"little silence."},{"speaker":"James Morris","startTime":2548.68,"endTime":2551.53,"body":"So I think we'd"},{"speaker":"James Morris","startTime":2548.68,"endTime":2551.53,"body":"probably both agree that we've"},{"speaker":"James Morris","startTime":2551.53,"endTime":2555.07,"body":"kind of moved from a place where"},{"speaker":"James Morris","startTime":2551.53,"endTime":2555.07,"body":"alcohol was fulfilling"},{"speaker":"James Morris","startTime":2555.1,"endTime":2559.63,"body":"something, albeit kind of"},{"speaker":"James Morris","startTime":2555.1,"endTime":2559.63,"body":"problematically to a place where"},{"speaker":"James Morris","startTime":2559.69,"endTime":2562.54,"body":"we're learning to live in a way"},{"speaker":"James Morris","startTime":2559.69,"endTime":2562.54,"body":"where we're not using or not"},{"speaker":"James Morris","startTime":2562.54,"endTime":2565.75,"body":"needing alcohol to fulfil that,"},{"speaker":"James Morris","startTime":2562.54,"endTime":2565.75,"body":"that role?"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2565.78,"endTime":2569.23,"body":"Yeah, I suppose as I"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2565.78,"endTime":2569.23,"body":"have accept myself for who I"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2569.23,"endTime":2574.3,"body":"really am for that quieter, more"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2569.23,"endTime":2574.3,"body":"boring sort of person. I don't"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2574.3,"endTime":2575.98,"body":"know. I mean, it's really not"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2574.3,"endTime":2575.98,"body":"true at all that I'm more"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2575.98,"endTime":2580.81,"body":"boring, but more measured,"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2575.98,"endTime":2580.81,"body":"maybe. And as I accept myself"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2580.84,"endTime":2585.28,"body":"for being that person, and start"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2580.84,"endTime":2585.28,"body":"to also acknowledge that I do"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2585.28,"endTime":2588.7,"body":"need things I do have certain"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2585.28,"endTime":2588.7,"body":"needs, or I, you know, I can't"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2588.7,"endTime":2593.05,"body":"just always function at a really"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2588.7,"endTime":2593.05,"body":"high level, no matter what the"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2593.05,"endTime":2596.11,"body":"circumstances, as I accept that"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2593.05,"endTime":2596.11,"body":"life is just so much more"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2596.11,"endTime":2598.81,"body":"bearable, so I just don't need"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2596.11,"endTime":2598.81,"body":"to drink. So I guess I used to"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2598.81,"endTime":2601.81,"body":"drink a lot to fit into other"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2598.81,"endTime":2601.81,"body":"people's ideas of a good time,"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2601.81,"endTime":2604.9,"body":"or to tolerate maybe"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2601.81,"endTime":2604.9,"body":"personalities that I found quite"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2604.9,"endTime":2607.72,"body":"difficult, or whatever the case,"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2604.9,"endTime":2607.72,"body":"and then I and then I would just"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2607.72,"endTime":2609.82,"body":"once I drank, man, I'd"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2607.72,"endTime":2609.82,"body":"accidentally just drink too much"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2609.82,"endTime":2612.91,"body":"and round out go again, and a"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2609.82,"endTime":2612.91,"body":"little ride but so partly just"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2612.91,"endTime":2616.39,"body":"making my life suit and fit me"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2612.91,"endTime":2616.39,"body":"better, has been a huge part of"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2616.39,"endTime":2620.83,"body":"that. And then also, I guess,"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2616.39,"endTime":2620.83,"body":"through AA, I did learn to"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2620.86,"endTime":2626.68,"body":"meditate. And I've learned the"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2620.86,"endTime":2626.68,"body":"power of reading positive little"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2626.71,"endTime":2629.38,"body":"things. So it might be a"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2626.71,"endTime":2629.38,"body":"spiritual book, or it might be a"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2629.38,"endTime":2632.8,"body":"recovery book, or it might be a"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2629.38,"endTime":2632.8,"body":"philosophical book. But I guess"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2632.8,"endTime":2635.89,"body":"the power of just reading some"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2632.8,"endTime":2635.89,"body":"wisdom, some human wisdom about"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2635.89,"endTime":2638.86,"body":"what life is and what we're here"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2635.89,"endTime":2638.86,"body":"to do, which of course is"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2638.86,"endTime":2642.31,"body":"different for all of us. But"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2638.86,"endTime":2642.31,"body":"that helps me a lot. And then"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2642.31,"endTime":2646.03,"body":"also, I don't really, I honestly"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2642.31,"endTime":2646.03,"body":"don't have at all a meditation"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2646.03,"endTime":2649.21,"body":"practice, I never was able to"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2646.03,"endTime":2649.21,"body":"develop one. But what I did get"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2649.21,"endTime":2652.15,"body":"from learning that and really"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2649.21,"endTime":2652.15,"body":"trying hard to develop one for"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2652.15,"endTime":2655.81,"body":"lots of years in AI was how"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2652.15,"endTime":2655.81,"body":"effective mindfulness can be for"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2655.81,"endTime":2660.49,"body":"me. So if I just try and breathe"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2655.81,"endTime":2660.49,"body":"and stop focusing and giving all"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2660.49,"endTime":2663.31,"body":"my attention to my thoughts and"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2660.49,"endTime":2663.31,"body":"just sort of be a little bit"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2663.31,"endTime":2666.25,"body":"more in my body, wherever that"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2663.31,"endTime":2666.25,"body":"wherever my body happens to be"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2666.28,"endTime":2669.25,"body":"preferably outside somewhere"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2666.28,"endTime":2669.25,"body":"beautiful, but it will also work"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2669.25,"endTime":2672.67,"body":"wherever my body happens to be"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2669.25,"endTime":2672.67,"body":"that had really helped me so I"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2672.67,"endTime":2676.96,"body":"guess it's just been learning"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2672.67,"endTime":2676.96,"body":"coping mechanisms really, for my"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2676.99,"endTime":2682.0,"body":"quite anxious disposition. And I"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2676.99,"endTime":2682.0,"body":"tend to get anxious a lot. And I"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2682.0,"endTime":2685.54,"body":"have social anxiety a lot. I get"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2682.0,"endTime":2685.54,"body":"really nervous about meeting new"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2685.54,"endTime":2688.24,"body":"people, I get nervous about"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2685.54,"endTime":2688.24,"body":"teaching and the reason is"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2688.24,"endTime":2690.67,"body":"because I've cared so much so it"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2688.24,"endTime":2690.67,"body":"all comes from quite a good"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2690.67,"endTime":2694.03,"body":"place, but it makes it quite"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2690.67,"endTime":2694.03,"body":"difficult for me to be in my"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2694.03,"endTime":2697.36,"body":"body. And and I can see so"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2694.03,"endTime":2697.36,"body":"clearly now that's why I relied"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2697.36,"endTime":2700.6,"body":"so much on drink. And so"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2697.36,"endTime":2700.6,"body":"actually I've had to do a hell"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2700.6,"endTime":2703.87,"body":"of a lot of work around all of"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2700.6,"endTime":2703.87,"body":"that just to be okay, you know,"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2704.08,"endTime":2708.19,"body":"to go around having a fairly"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2704.08,"endTime":2708.19,"body":"ordinary life and not drinking,"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2708.25,"endTime":2708.46,"body":"you know."},{"speaker":"James Morris","startTime":2708.46,"endTime":2710.68,"body":"I think as you're"},{"speaker":"James Morris","startTime":2708.46,"endTime":2710.68,"body":"describing, learning to"},{"speaker":"James Morris","startTime":2710.68,"endTime":2714.19,"body":"understand who you are, and know"},{"speaker":"James Morris","startTime":2710.68,"endTime":2714.19,"body":"how you act in different"},{"speaker":"James Morris","startTime":2714.19,"endTime":2717.67,"body":"situations, but also your"},{"speaker":"James Morris","startTime":2714.19,"endTime":2717.67,"body":"expectancies. And you know,"},{"speaker":"James Morris","startTime":2717.67,"endTime":2720.64,"body":"being kind to yourself, I think"},{"speaker":"James Morris","startTime":2717.67,"endTime":2720.64,"body":"they're all such powerful things"},{"speaker":"James Morris","startTime":2720.64,"endTime":2725.29,"body":"and demonstrate how recovery"},{"speaker":"James Morris","startTime":2720.64,"endTime":2725.29,"body":"often is a kind of process of"},{"speaker":"James Morris","startTime":2725.32,"endTime":2730.54,"body":"transition into a sort of new"},{"speaker":"James Morris","startTime":2725.32,"endTime":2730.54,"body":"cell for social identity, where,"},{"speaker":"James Morris","startTime":2730.84,"endTime":2734.53,"body":"you know, just our self view,"},{"speaker":"James Morris","startTime":2730.84,"endTime":2734.53,"body":"how we understand ourselves, and"},{"speaker":"James Morris","startTime":2734.53,"endTime":2738.85,"body":"how we expect to behave or what"},{"speaker":"James Morris","startTime":2734.53,"endTime":2738.85,"body":"we think we might want to enjoy"},{"speaker":"James Morris","startTime":2738.85,"endTime":2742.0,"body":"just kind of shifts. And, you"},{"speaker":"James Morris","startTime":2738.85,"endTime":2742.0,"body":"know, in some ways, it is just"},{"speaker":"James Morris","startTime":2742.0,"endTime":2744.22,"body":"about awareness, isn't it to"},{"speaker":"James Morris","startTime":2742.0,"endTime":2744.22,"body":"going back to what you're saying"},{"speaker":"James Morris","startTime":2744.22,"endTime":2747.46,"body":"at the start, I really related"},{"speaker":"James Morris","startTime":2744.22,"endTime":2747.46,"body":"to a lot of that, in terms of"},{"speaker":"James Morris","startTime":2747.49,"endTime":2750.82,"body":"looking back on when I was"},{"speaker":"James Morris","startTime":2747.49,"endTime":2750.82,"body":"drinking heavily, the thought"},{"speaker":"James Morris","startTime":2750.82,"endTime":2755.11,"body":"processes that I had, or beliefs"},{"speaker":"James Morris","startTime":2750.82,"endTime":2755.11,"body":"that I had is really hard to"},{"speaker":"James Morris","startTime":2755.11,"endTime":2758.11,"body":"understand how I could think"},{"speaker":"James Morris","startTime":2755.11,"endTime":2758.11,"body":"those things like now I'd drink"},{"speaker":"James Morris","startTime":2758.11,"endTime":2762.55,"body":"a lot, and I would be quite ill"},{"speaker":"James Morris","startTime":2758.11,"endTime":2762.55,"body":"from it after, I would just see"},{"speaker":"James Morris","startTime":2762.55,"endTime":2765.58,"body":"that as just perfectly normal"},{"speaker":"James Morris","startTime":2762.55,"endTime":2765.58,"body":"thing to do. And that the only"},{"speaker":"James Morris","startTime":2765.58,"endTime":2770.59,"body":"negative consequence was feeling"},{"speaker":"James Morris","startTime":2765.58,"endTime":2770.59,"body":"rough, you know, that there was"},{"speaker":"James Morris","startTime":2770.59,"endTime":2774.4,"body":"no other long term implications"},{"speaker":"James Morris","startTime":2770.59,"endTime":2774.4,"body":"for me, there was nothing else"},{"speaker":"James Morris","startTime":2774.4,"endTime":2777.94,"body":"to question about that is just"},{"speaker":"James Morris","startTime":2774.4,"endTime":2777.94,"body":"quite a bizarre. Yeah, you know,"},{"speaker":"James Morris","startTime":2777.94,"endTime":2780.37,"body":"I find it hard to relate to"},{"speaker":"James Morris","startTime":2777.94,"endTime":2780.37,"body":"that. So I think developing"},{"speaker":"James Morris","startTime":2780.37,"endTime":2783.7,"body":"awareness of ourselves in the"},{"speaker":"James Morris","startTime":2780.37,"endTime":2783.7,"body":"drivers of all these kinds of"},{"speaker":"James Morris","startTime":2783.7,"endTime":2786.58,"body":"behaviours, so that we can kind"},{"speaker":"James Morris","startTime":2783.7,"endTime":2786.58,"body":"of get into a place where we"},{"speaker":"James Morris","startTime":2786.58,"endTime":2789.79,"body":"don't need to kind of use things"},{"speaker":"James Morris","startTime":2786.58,"endTime":2789.79,"body":"in what might become a"},{"speaker":"James Morris","startTime":2789.79,"endTime":2790.69,"body":"problematic way."},{"speaker":"Chelsey Flood","startTime":2791.26,"endTime":2793.18,"body":"Yeah, 100%,"},{"speaker":"Chelsey Flood","startTime":2791.26,"endTime":2793.18,"body":"right."},{"speaker":"James Morris","startTime":2793.0,"endTime":2795.46,"body":"I mean, writing"},{"speaker":"James Morris","startTime":2793.0,"endTime":2795.46,"body":"about alcohol is by no means"},{"speaker":"James Morris","startTime":2795.46,"endTime":2798.82,"body":"your full time occupation, but"},{"speaker":"James Morris","startTime":2795.46,"endTime":2798.82,"body":"do you think you'll do any more"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2799.54,"endTime":2803.5,"body":"Well, I am working on a"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2799.54,"endTime":2803.5,"body":"book. So I'm trying to mine my"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2803.5,"endTime":2806.53,"body":"blog, and then I'm going to put"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2803.5,"endTime":2806.53,"body":"those into a book. And my main"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2806.53,"endTime":2809.44,"body":"aim for that is I just want to"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2806.53,"endTime":2809.44,"body":"pass on what what I received,"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2809.44,"endTime":2812.68,"body":"because the books that I read by"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2809.44,"endTime":2812.68,"body":"women a little bit like me, who"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2812.68,"endTime":2816.97,"body":"got sober really did change my"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2812.68,"endTime":2816.97,"body":"life. And and I guess I want to"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2816.97,"endTime":2821.47,"body":"add to, to that, and then I'm"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2816.97,"endTime":2821.47,"body":"endlessly fascinated by this"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2821.47,"endTime":2824.89,"body":"topic. So I will certainly write"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2821.47,"endTime":2824.89,"body":"about it. And really, my, what I"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2824.89,"endTime":2828.19,"body":"really write is novels. And"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2824.89,"endTime":2828.19,"body":"alcohol has always played a"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2828.19,"endTime":2831.76,"body":"little part in my novels, but it"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2828.19,"endTime":2831.76,"body":"was that was my drinking mind"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2831.79,"endTime":2834.25,"body":"that was bringing little bits of"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2831.79,"endTime":2834.25,"body":"that in. And so I am really"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2834.25,"endTime":2837.7,"body":"interested now in writing more"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2834.25,"endTime":2837.7,"body":"about the part that alcohol"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2837.7,"endTime":2840.97,"body":"plays in people's problems, but"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2837.7,"endTime":2840.97,"body":"without them realising because I"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2840.97,"endTime":2844.36,"body":"just think I also think denial"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2840.97,"endTime":2844.36,"body":"in particular, is is such a"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2844.36,"endTime":2847.42,"body":"fascinating concept. And it's"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2844.36,"endTime":2847.42,"body":"such a great, I guess, it's a"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2847.42,"endTime":2850.24,"body":"really great literary device as"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2847.42,"endTime":2850.24,"body":"well. So yeah, I think I'm"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2850.24,"endTime":2852.73,"body":"always going to be fascinated in"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2850.24,"endTime":2852.73,"body":"this subject. But increasingly,"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2852.73,"endTime":2856.21,"body":"I'm more interested in those"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2852.73,"endTime":2856.21,"body":"reasons of why we drank and I"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2856.21,"endTime":2859.51,"body":"find it really fascinating that"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2856.21,"endTime":2859.51,"body":"people like me live in these"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2859.51,"endTime":2864.13,"body":"little enclaves, you know, I was"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2859.51,"endTime":2864.13,"body":"created by my environment, and"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2864.13,"endTime":2866.59,"body":"there's a lot of other people"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2864.13,"endTime":2866.59,"body":"like me, and you know, I've"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2866.59,"endTime":2869.5,"body":"stayed in touch with a lot of"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2866.59,"endTime":2869.5,"body":"them. And I find it quite"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2869.5,"endTime":2872.35,"body":"interesting this idea of, like,"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2869.5,"endTime":2872.35,"body":"you talked about the awareness"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2872.35,"endTime":2875.89,"body":"and how it doesn't reach"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2872.35,"endTime":2875.89,"body":"everywhere. And actually, that"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2875.89,"endTime":2878.71,"body":"made me feel quite insane when I"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2875.89,"endTime":2878.71,"body":"was first getting sober because"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2878.71,"endTime":2881.2,"body":"it was like no one would ever"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2878.71,"endTime":2881.2,"body":"validate that I'd ever even had"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2881.2,"endTime":2884.62,"body":"a problem and I was like, Oh my"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2881.2,"endTime":2884.62,"body":"god, this is so weird. So yeah,"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2884.65,"endTime":2886.93,"body":"I still have loads to say and"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2884.65,"endTime":2886.93,"body":"write about"},{"speaker":"James Morris","startTime":2887.59,"endTime":2890.65,"body":"And if people want"},{"speaker":"James Morris","startTime":2887.59,"endTime":2890.65,"body":"to read your blog, it's is the"},{"speaker":"James Morris","startTime":2890.65,"endTime":2892.99,"body":"beautiful hangover. Is that the"},{"speaker":"James Morris","startTime":2890.65,"endTime":2892.99,"body":"main place?"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2893.02,"endTime":2895.81,"body":"Yeah, so it's actually"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2893.02,"endTime":2895.81,"body":"on my writer website, which is"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2895.81,"endTime":2896.53,"body":"Chelsea flood.com."},{"speaker":"James Morris","startTime":2897.219,"endTime":2899.799,"body":"Great. Well,"},{"speaker":"James Morris","startTime":2897.219,"endTime":2899.799,"body":"thanks so much, Chelsea. That's"},{"speaker":"James Morris","startTime":2899.799,"endTime":2903.069,"body":"been a fantastic and really,"},{"speaker":"James Morris","startTime":2899.799,"endTime":2903.069,"body":"really interesting conversation."},{"speaker":"Chelsey Flood","startTime":2903.1,"endTime":2905.41,"body":"It was so much"},{"speaker":"Chelsey Flood","startTime":2903.1,"endTime":2905.41,"body":"fun. I really enjoyed talking to"},{"speaker":"Chelsey Flood","startTime":2905.41,"endTime":2908.59,"body":"you. Thank you so much for"},{"speaker":"Chelsey Flood","startTime":2905.41,"endTime":2908.59,"body":"asking me and and just for for"},{"speaker":"Chelsey Flood","startTime":2908.59,"endTime":2911.02,"body":"asking such interesting"},{"speaker":"Chelsey Flood","startTime":2908.59,"endTime":2911.02,"body":"questions. I really enjoyed it."}]}