Ep 22: How Hot is the Market for CFOs? Really Hot.

Almost like a long, rolling earthquake, bedrock changes are underway in the job market and it's no different for the CFO role.  Everyone seems to be looking.  Samuel Dergel of Dergel Executive Search joins me to discuss this phenomenon, what skills are most in-demand, and how CFOs are finding their next gigs.  We also cover what aspiring CFOs should be doing to prepare for their turn in the seat.  Grab onto something as we unpack this seismic topic on this episode of Upside/Downside.

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Matt

Transcript

SPEAKER_00: 0:02

Hi, this is Matt Cooley, host of the podcast Upside Downside, where we explore what it takes to be the best finance business partners possible. I'm a finance business partner myself by day and former president of the New York City chapter of Financial Executives International. Today, we welcome back Samuel Dergel of Dergel Executive Search to share an update on the market for CFOs. In addition to Executive Search, Samuel is a coach, author, and sought-after speaker across North America. i'm grateful we know each other and that you're here today samuel welcome

SPEAKER_01: 0:36

thank you very much there's no video so you don't see my big smile thank you for that

SPEAKER_00: 0:42

okay well i know you have trouble not having a big smile and that's one of the cool things about you so thanks thanks for being here we're going to talk about the job market for cfos right now what does that look like right now and are there any particular sectors that are really hot at the moment

SPEAKER_01: 0:59

um you know Across the board, we're sitting in the middle of September 2021. The people I speak to in all parts of corporate America, there's great resignation happening as we speak. Every leader in a business is saying that people are leaving and they're hiring people. There's lots of foundational change to the job market, right now. So that's the global job market across executives to junior people and throughout the functions that run a business. For CFOs, it's no different. There's a lot of change happening at companies. The world of COVID that we've been in for a year and a half, which doesn't look like it's going to disappear here in the short term has created an up, has upped the game for change across the board in all businesses. And CFOs in particular are being looked at are as, you know, is the CFO we have the CFO we need for the type of business that we want to become? And when companies are asking that question, sometimes they're saying no. That's one part of the driver. Another part of the driver is that there's lots of opportunity and activity in CFO hiring. Like any game of musical chairs that we've played when we were younger, one CFO leaving to another opportunity creates an opportunity as to where they were before. the more that moving happens, the more opportunities exist.

SPEAKER_00: 3:07

So you're seeing things both from companies as well as candidates themselves, CFOs themselves. Sounds like everybody's thinking about change.

SPEAKER_01: 3:17

Everybody's thinking about change. And as an executive recruiter, which I find fascinating, is let's call it 2019, when you try to reach out to someone, maybe they wouldn't get back to you. Today, everybody is taking the phone call.

SPEAKER_00: 3:40

All right. So you don't feel ignored this year. That's good. No,

SPEAKER_01: 3:44

not ignored, but it's where people two years ago would say, you know what, I'm busy right now. I don't have time to talk to a recruiter. Today, with the uncertainty that's around both in terms of their careers and a realization that there are lots of opportunities out there. I can take a look at any 10 CFOs you know, I guarantee you that they're all interviewing right now.

SPEAKER_00: 4:17

Oh, that's interesting. So any particular sectors that are hotter than others right now, or is this across the board?

SPEAKER_01: 4:25

It's across the board. Earlier this year, SPACs were hot public company, you know, the public company CFO was very hot in the spring, summer. It's still hot, but, but, but again, it's really about as companies change companies, you know, as people, as individuals, we change as people all throughout our lives and the life cycle of a company, companies change. Okay. And, and the company of five years ago and a company of today is not the same company. So should the CFO of five years ago be the CFO today? And that's a question with everything that's going on right now that's being asked in boardrooms across

SPEAKER_00: 5:15

America. Oh, that's fascinating. Okay. What are the most in-demand skills right now that you're seeing that companies want and candidates want? And is there a gap between those two things?

SPEAKER_01: 5:28

So from a skills and demand at companies perspective, I would say, as a recruiter, most companies want the unicorn CFO, the CFO that can dance, that can sing, and can act. It may sound a little bit weird, but the CFO of yesterday that was just really numbers focused cannot be successful in today's environment. You have to be numbers focused. You need to be aware of what's going on in the business, but you also need to be the partner, not only to the CEO, but to all parts of the business. You have to be business partner internally. You need to be the partner to those that are outside the business. The boards are more demanding today than ever. There's some very serious shifts in composition of board that's happening behind the scenes right now. You can see it, but not many people are talking about it. There's that, the diversity issue, the diversity, not issue, question. The diversity question is, are our executives teams diverse? And what does that mean? Is certainly playing into CFO hiring more than it has in the past. And not only CFO hiring, but finance team hiring. and what that looks like. A key thing You know, in old school America, if that ever really existed, either executives all lived in the same town and went to the same office day in, day out before COVID. But certainly now, you know, remote executive teams are a fact for many companies, except those in very high concentrated population areas like New York or maybe Chicago. Right.

SPEAKER_00: 8:06

And I wanted to ask about that. How are things like work from home policies, using cloud-based tools, being successful with conference meetings, teams meetings or whatever, how much is that affecting how CFOs view potential opportunities and companies? How do they view that?

SPEAKER_01: 8:29

It's certainly work from home, cloud-based tools, video conferencing. These were things that were being used in finance before, let's call it in 2019 and before. These are not new. What is new is that finance as a business within the business is running more remote than ever. Executive teams, in companies are running more remote than ever um you know i've helped build finance teams for cfos at the leadership level where everybody's remote there is there is no office for finance And so how does that work? But also, in the past, you would work your way up through a larger company by being visible within an organization. But how visible can someone who's working through the ranks and wants to become CFO of a large corporation today, how visible can they be when they're just screen on the Partridge family that's on their computer. Maybe some people don't know what that means because they're not old enough, but it's a fact. Flexibility is the number one requirement for anybody that wants to be a CFO today.

SPEAKER_00: 10:17

Not something you're used to reading when you're looking at the news or career journals. So I think that's really neat that you're pointing that out. You have to be flexible. If we've learned nothing in the last year and a half, my gosh, flexibility, resiliency, all those things.

UNKNOWN: 10:37

Yeah. Huge.

SPEAKER_00: 10:39

Yeah. Hey, where are most CFOs finding their new opportunities now? Has that changed or is it still the reliable networking type thing? We're not doing as much of that in person, obviously, but where are CFOs finding these new opportunities?

UNKNOWN: 10:58

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01: 10:58

I've always felt that CFO, if you take a look at what a successful CFO looks like, if you identify a well-known successful CFO, they're excellent networkers that add value to their network throughout. They have a strong people side to them and work that not only in the business that they're in, but within their peer group and within the business communities they're involved. So your network is still key. And the beautiful thing is, is that those that have made sure not to forget their network throughout the last 18 months or ahead of the game. And it's easy to be able to say, well, I'm working from home 95% of the time. I can't go to networking events, and I can't meet new people. But most people I know are responsible for their own agenda. and put on their agenda what's important to them. You got to put networking as part of, whether it's group networking, whether remotely, things are coming back in some way, shape, or form. Don't be late on those things. Successful CFOs are visible and likable and add value to others in advance. And those that are doing it today are even more valuable. So how to find opportunities? There's network on one hand, and the other hand, you're a trustee, reliable executive recruiter, certainly has access to opportunities and they're not to be forgotten. But I would also say, if you take a look at what corporate America used to be, public companies. Today, public companies are a part of it. Corporate America also includes a huge amount of private equity owned businesses. Private equity investors really are a source of CFO searches. They run their own searches based on their own network and who they know. They're doing a lot of hiring for PE companies, no question.

SPEAKER_00: 13:45

Right. Okay. All right. Last question. I'd like to cover all different stages of careers on Upside Downside. I think that's important for the listeners. For early career and mid-career professionals, what does your crystal ball tell you about the kinds of skills that CFOs are going to need? Let's say, five plus years out

SPEAKER_01: 14:06

uh you

SPEAKER_00: 14:07

know and i know you think about this because i know you love thinking about the future

SPEAKER_01: 14:11

oh well i i so i i have uh clifton strengths one of my top five strengths is uh being futuristic um and i always think about that um you know The way to really think about it is before talking about what kind of skills CFOs need, what will businesses look like in five to 10 years, right? Because that's really going to be the driver of what skills CFOs need to bring to the table to help their companies be successful. You know, we'll use the auto industry as one industry, but I think it can apply to a lot. Everybody's saying, you know, electric vehicles are the future, okay? Self-driving cars look like a reality in our lifetime. Well, maybe, you know, it depends on where we are in our own life cycle. But, you know, industries are changing. New industries are coming up. So really, you've got to think about where businesses are going to go and what businesses are going to look like. And if I step back to 2010 and look back forward to 2020, COVID aside, I think we could have seen what 2020 looked like at 2010. Sitting in 2021, I can't tell what 2030 really is going to look like for businesses. Now, put that aside for a moment. CFOs have to have that. The CFO will continue to be in many businesses, especially in the financial press, looked at as the second in command, the keeper of the keys to the cash. So a couple of things. Cash. With what's going on in cryptocurrency, with what's going on in fiat currency and US dollar and treasury and all that kind of stuff, what's currency going to look like in 10 years? Well,

SPEAKER_00: 16:41

exactly, exactly.

SPEAKER_01: 16:42

Not so simple. And, you know, really it depends on what feed you're reading on your phone that will tell you where things are going. But it won't look like it looked like two years ago. It's going to be very different. What impact will blockchain have on businesses? Okay. You know, so CFOs are going have to be certainly more technically savvy uh and really understanding i mean i took an online course try to you know to learn about blockchain fundamentals for finance uh just because there's so many things going on and i'm no expert but it's changing so cfos if you want to if you want to be a cfo in five to ten years from now make sure you understand blockchain. Make sure you understand what's happening in the cryptocurrency space, because if cash is king, this is cash. cryptocurrency.

SPEAKER_00: 17:57

Right. So, so, you know, big picture, that's great guidance. So big picture, don't start with, you know, what are the specific skills I need really understand what our business is going to look like five years out and, and steer your development that way. I think that's, I think that's outstanding. Wow. Well, listen, Samuel, thank you for the update today. I really appreciate it.

SPEAKER_01: 18:22

It's always a pleasure to speak with you.

SPEAKER_00: 18:23

Oh, same, Same here. And I really, really appreciate your time. And to the subscribers of Upside Downside, keep feeding that career and make sure that you stay in touch with guys like Samuel. It's the right thing to do. All righty, sir. I hope you have a great day. Thank you.