My name is Brandon Dennison. I'm the founder and CEO of Coalfield Development. And I'm also your host for this podcast, Change in the Coalfields. And I'm very honored today to have executive director of the Herbert Henderson Office of Minority Affairs for the state of West Virginia, Jill Upson. Jill, thank you so much for joining us today.
Jill Upson:Hello, thank you so much for having me on. I'm excited to be here.
Brandon Dennison:Well, you do really important work. And we're excited to learn from you. Before we get into the to the work. I would love to just learn more about you as a person, as a leader. Tell us tell us where you grew up.
Jill Upson:So I actually grew up kind of all over the place. My parents split up like a lot of families have when I was very young. And so we just kind of bounced around a lot. I grew up some in California, and some in Ohio. And I even spent about five years in Denver, Colorado. So I've kind of been all over the place.
Brandon Dennison:And what brought you to West Virginia?
Jill Upson:So later in life, I guess I hadn't gotten enough of the moving thing. So I married a guy in the military. So we got married.
Brandon Dennison:More moving.
Jill Upson:Yes, more moving. And so he got orders every two years. And so we were moving every two years until, I guess I'd say like the late 90s. And I just decided that I'd had my fill of moving and I just, you know, said to him that I'm just gonna stay put. So we had found a house in Charles Town, West Virginia, I thought it was a great place to continue raising our kids give them some stability. So he did an additional 10 years in the military as what's called a geo bachelor. And I stayed put in Charles Town. And so we just, you know, made West Virginia, our home ever since.
Brandon Dennison:You mentioned kids, how many kids do you have?
Jill Upson:So I have one son, who is 31, his name is DJ, and I had another daughter, but we lost her in a car accident, in 2010. And I know that you said, you know, we would talk about, you know, kind of what led me to this place? Well, that was definitely one of those things that, you know, was life altering that, you know, basically lit a fire underneath me to say, you know, you really need to be doing a lot more with your life. It's such a short window. And so that kind of led me into public service.
Brandon Dennison:Wow. Yeah. So well say a little bit more about that, if you're comfortable. What is the what is that story?
Jill Upson:So I had been working retail, for a number of years, I was a store manager. And you know, I was fine with doing that it actually is a good salary. You know, once you get into management, and then the economic downturn happened, right around 2008-ish or so. And the store that I was working for, as a manager, closed all of its location, all of its locations. And so I was home, I was actually laid off for a whole year. And it you know, in hindsight, of course, back then you're just like, oh, my gosh, we're losing so much of our household income. But it was my daughter's, you know, she was going into her senior year of high school. And so I was able to be with her for that entire last year, that we had her and be at every single home game, every single away game. And then just you know, one day she was going to IHOP with a girlfriend, she's a passenger in the car, and her girlfriend was driving, and they just somehow the police suspect that maybe a deer or something ran out. And inexperienced driver, her friend that was driving just got disoriented, and ended up in a horrific collision head on with another car. And all four people involved in the accident perished. And so when that happened, of course, you know, I just you know, you have no explanation, you know, some things in life are just so bad that you can't explain it. And so as I began to kind of go through that process and figure out well, what in the world am I here for, you know, and, and she's gone, it should be the other way around. I began to realize that, well, there's something I need to do. And so about a year after her accident, I actually put my hat in the ring to run for public office. I wasn't successful in that first run. But that's what started, you know, me on this long journey into public service, which, you know, I really believe that I'm having an impact. I think I had an impact as a legislator and I believe I'm having an impact now at the Office of Minority Affairs in helping underserved communities.
Brandon Dennison:Well, and I think a mother put in that position, could be forgiven to sort of just give in to the to the overwhelming, unimaginable grief and hopelessness but the fact that you were able to somehow convert that into fuel to serve and to do more. I'm just genuinely inspired by that.
Jill Upson:Oh, well, thank you. Thank you, I appreciate that. But but, you know, you have to know that there definitely were days where you just say, forget it. I'm not getting out of my bathrobe today. But, you know, you do you do find purpose again. And I do, let that tragedy drive me forward to doing more, because, you know, we are all here for a very limited amount of time. And so, you know, for me, that was definitely a wake up call to to get out there and really serve.
Brandon Dennison:And is that I think it's interesting. So, I'd love to go back to your experience in the military, your spouse, who's whose military, in what ways did that shape you?
Jill Upson:So it's interesting, because a lot of times, his mother and father were career Navy, as well, except they were they had a different experience, because his father was enlisted where my husband went through the Naval Academy, and came in as an officer, as an officer. But I remember his mother telling me, when we got married, that you know, you know, the wives, they wear their husband's rank. So that stuck with me, and I would always be, you know, reluctant to tell people that I was an officer's wife, you know, I kind of kept that low key for fear that people would, you know, kind of judge me, oh, she's one of them. And, you know, it's funny, the same thing with my husband. So having graduated from the Naval Academy, and they get this reputation of, you know, the ring knocker so he does have that big honkin ring, but he doesn't wear it, like he's never worn it, just because he's not pretentious in any way, either. And so we both have kind of approached the whole military thing, you know, again, from a place of humility, so that, you know, we're not walking around, you know, wearing our rank, I certainly have not earned the right to wear his rank. But there are definitely sacrifices that we've made as a family, as I mentioned, at the beginning, moving every two years and you know, packing up the kids. And, you know, as it happened with the Navy, whenever we would get orders to go someplace, they would typically have to send him ahead of me to some sort of school or something. So I would be left to pack up all the household goods and, you know, get every everything taken care of as far as the doctor's appointments and utilities, because he would be gone. So, but that's just one of those things that you know, that you do, and I don't regret it for a single second, I would definitely do it all over again.
Brandon Dennison:What was your favorite place besides West Virginia, that you lived in all that bouncing around?
Jill Upson:I would say seaside California, which is 10 minutes from Monterey. It was just, you know, beautiful there along the coastline, even though it's chilly. So I mean, the average highs there would be, you know, maybe 75 ish. So, you know, the nights were cold. And the summers, you know, weren't like the scorching hot summers, like what we're used to, but just the beauty of being up there. And the lifestyle, you know, just everyone was just very, you know, calm and friendly, you know, just kind of the way the coast would you would imagine, you know, with what having that kind of beauty to look at every day. And I just remember being in the Carmel, it was 10 minutes, from Carmel, just everything was very close to get to and just a beautiful part of California for us to live in for a whole three years while he was there going to PG school.
Brandon Dennison:So with the military, the sense of service, the sense of commitment, was would you say that's part of what shaped your future desire to serve in public office?
Jill Upson:I think that definitely had a lot to do with it. But I think I think I just kind of was born with a heart for service. I remember being in middle school, and they kind of went around and asked everyone what they wanted to be. And everyone laughed at me because I was the only one who said a social worker.
Brandon Dennison:Wow.
Jill Upson:Yeah. But in my mind at that time, you know, I just thought, well, social workers, they help people and that's what I want to do. But you know, it's funny because my mother and I up until she passed, you know, we always laughed about that, that I wanted to be a social worker, but I think, you know, seeing my husband serve and you know, just having so much admiration for the military overall. Definitely just kind of solidified what was already inate.
Brandon Dennison:So had you been to West Virginia before landing in Charlestown?
Jill Upson:No I, I had not been to West Virginia, we were actually living in Northern Virginia. And we had gotten away from the West Coast. And I remember saying, you know, it's so expensive out here, we'll finally be able to afford things when we move to northern Virgnia. Boy was I in for a rude awakening? We got to Northern Virginia, and it was right during the housing boom. And you know, we're driving around, and we're looking at houses, and then you know, we're looking at our VA loan limits. And we're just like, so about buying a house. We kept driving further and further west until we got to West Virginia. And we were so pleasantly surprised. When we crossed over the border into West Virginia, we were just like, 'Oh, my goodness, this is the best kept secret.' You know, not only are the houses affordable, but it's just, you know, a great pace, because in Northern Virginia, you're, you know, you can try to go five miles and be in traffic for an hour. So it was just nice to have that little bit slower pace. And then of course, the standard of living was so great here that. We I mean, instantly, like we didn't flinch, like we're just like this is it or buying a house. And so we moved forward to buy a house in West Virginia.
Brandon Dennison:Great, and you're still here.
Jill Upson:Still here.
Brandon Dennison:I'm proud to say I'm a Shepherd grad, I went to Shepherd University for my undergraduate so and just in case folks are not from West Virginia, we're talking about Charles Town, which is in the eastern panhandle, which is different from Charleston, which is the capital, right in the middle part of the state.
Jill Upson:Yes, five hours away. So a lot of people don't realize that that I'm closer to Washington, D.C., at an hour and 15 minutes than I am to the capitol of Charleston, which takes me five hours to get to from my home in Charles Town. And yes, fellow Shepherd, grad here.
Brandon Dennison:All right, go rams, can you say a little bit more about just the eastern panhandle and how it's maybe some ways it's similar to the rest of the state some ways it's different from the rest of the state?
Jill Upson:Well, I think when people come here, like when other legislators come to the eastern panhandle, they're always surprised, because it's very, very different. Just, you know, when we talk about pace, you know, it's just like a little bit more hustle and bustle in that area, because there's so much commerce in the eastern panhandle. And then we also in the eastern panhandle, have about half of our population of Jefferson County commutes into northern Virginia, Maryland, and D.C. to work. And so you have that kind of odd aspect of it that you wouldn't necessarily have in all areas of West Virginia. But it's definitely growing as far as manufacturing goes. And I know that when you're talking about, like the southern coalfields, that that has been, you know, on a steady decline now for a number of years. And so to see a resurgence in manufacturing, and in the eastern panhandle, has been a very pleasant surprise for a lot of people.
Brandon Dennison:Is, would you say, is there more diversity in the eastern panhandle than other parts of the state? Would you say?
Jill Upson:I would say, Berkeley and Jefferson County, definitely. But I've, I've had to look all the all the counties up. And so I actually have a lot of data on this, because when the COVID-19 pandemic hit, you know, my agency had to halt everything that we were doing. And so we went into pandemic remote response mode, like everyone else did. And so we had to do once we saw the impact that it was having on minority communities. We started setting up minority testing sites in those communities. And so I was able to collect a lot of information on you know, where minorities primarily live throughout the state. And so, you know, it's kind of odd because you have places like, Gary and Welch over in McDowell County, where, you know, it's, you know, upwards of maybe, you know, 30 to 40% African American, which is just, you know, unheard of in a state that has an overall population of, you know, between three and 4% African American and so, the eastern panhandle, absolutely more diversity. And a lot of that is from the agriculture, the horse racing. And so, we do have a lot of Hispanic population that are affiliated with as trainers, that work for our the track up there, Hollywood Casino, and Charles Town racing, so we do have quite a bit of diversity in there. An area.
Brandon Dennison:I tell folks, you know, certainly statistically, West Virginia, Appalachia is whiter than a lot of other parts of the country. But I think there is a lot more diversity here than many people would realize. Even like you said, there's some pockets, even in coal country, you know, many coal, coal communities, were pretty diverse immigrant people of color, quite a variety. Would you agree?
Jill Upson:Oh, absolutely. And it's just funny, because, you know, I'd call some places. And you know, like, when I'm setting up my tours for now, and people were like, you're with what office? Minority Affairs? We don't have any. It's funny, because there's some places where, you know, there's still, you know, just no diversity whatsoever in West Virginia. And I always think about one of the articles I saw about one of our HBCUs because, you know, we have two here we have West Virginia State University, is one of our historically Black colleges, and so is Bluefield State. But Bluefield State was identified as what was called the whitest HBCU in America.
Brandon Dennison:Do you get a plaque for that? Could you speak to the importance of diversity? What is it about diversity that is so important for our communities and for our businesses and for our lives? And I have, certainly it's celebrating encouraging diversity as part of the theory of change of Coalfield Development. But I'd love to just hear in your own words, why why that's so important.
Jill Upson:Well, I think it's important because if you look at anything, so if you look at, you know, the the legislature and why we have a citizens legislature is because to make better policy, you want differing opinions and differing perspectives? Well, the same thing applies to cultural diversity and ethnic diversity and racial diversity is that you get a better product, you get a better working environment, or you get a better school environment, when you have different types of people bringing in their different and unique perspectives, all blending together for a common goal. So I think a lot of people, they get really prickly just because of, you know, the political climate in this country, when you say words, like diversity, but, you know, if you add that, you know, diversity not only applies to, you know, those categories that I mentioned, you know, with the racial and ethnic diversity, but also, you know, socio economic diversity, especially in West Virginia, and when we're talking about helping underserved communities, you know, Appalachia, I mean, how much more diverse can you get, you know, you have so many underserved, you know, unmet needs in primarily white communities as well. So, and that's another reason why diversity is important. Because you just, you know, like I said, you just no matter what you're doing in life, no matter what you're working toward, you're going to get a better product. If you have varying perspectives.
Brandon Dennison:Yeah, we've, I love how you frame that. And we've got to find ways to that celebrate diversity without politicizing the topic, right?
Jill Upson:Yes, absolutely. Absolutely. And there's nothing wrong with diversity of thought. I mean, there is no rule that says we all need to agree on politics or any other topic. But somehow it just has gotten to the point where, you know, just the the, the art of disagreeing and still being able to be civil, is lost, unfortunately.
Brandon Dennison:Yeah, well said. And maybe we can try and get that back, maybe West Virginia can show how to do it, how to do it better. How to disagree and keep respect, right?
Jill Upson:I do hope so what I and I have to say, you know, and, you know, when you look at our senators, our U.S. senators, that is Senator Manchin and Senator Capito, you know, they get beaten up pretty good from all sides. And so that kind of tells you that they do recognize that they are representing, you know, the entire state and not just one side or the other. So, you know, even in that, even when you're trying to show that, you know, you're not, you know, just all you know, you know, serving your political party, you still get clobbered? Oh, I don't know what the answer is but...
Brandon Dennison:Hard to win. Yeah.
Jill Upson:Yes. I do want to remark that they, they do try.
Brandon Dennison:Sure. So tell us more about about your your current job. What are what are some of the big goals and big projects that you and that the Office of Minority Affairs are working on?
Jill Upson:So we have a number of things traditionally, we started out when the office was created back in 2012, with just doing listening tours, and that was just going to minority communities, about four per year, they started out with, to hear from the community, what their needs were. And the way the tours operate is that rather than going and getting information, and then bringing that back to the Capitol, the tours, take several secretaries or department representatives from a number of different agencies to answer questions that may come up during the tour. So that these concerns and issues can be addressed right there on the spot, if possible. The governor's Director of Constituent Services is one who travels with the tour to deal with any issues that might come up. And so that was the primary function. When I came in three years ago, I you know, just believe that the the agency was grossly underutilized. And so I set out to, to try to have a bigger impact. And so we continued with the listening tours, we ramped them up, I added a couple more stops. And then we also started doing other types of events, some cultural, some educational. So we started doing financial literacy classes, for example, we also did Juneteenth, a huge Juneteenth Celebration, our last Juneteenth that was live, I had about 1,000 people show up to the Capitol. So some of those are some of the things we were doing. I also did a grant program for underserved populations to address the social determinants of health. So if it dealt with education, if it dealt with health care, community living, I plucked out about five different areas that the grant applicants could apply for, to address these issues. And that was very, very successful. The governor actually gave from his contingency fund, gave my agency a half million dollars to run that program. So those are all the things that we were doing until COVID hit and then as I said, we have completely switched gears now, and gone into pandemic response and put a lot of those previous events we were doing on virtual. So right now, I'm doing this, I just launched it, this is my fourth stop. So I've been willing, willing, today I'm doing a 55 county tour of the state.
Brandon Dennison:All 55, huh?
Jill Upson:All 55. It's going to take me a year and a half, I will finish in December of 2022. That's a lot of traveling. But it's good. And it's very instructive. And I'm glad that the governor has me out here doing this because, you know, you get this federal funding in here. And you know, you just you want to get it right. You don't want to look back and say, 'Oh, my goodness, where did $1.3 billion go? What do we have to show for it?' So by being out here on the road, and hearing from each community, what their needs are, what their concerns are, what they believe are the most pressing problems in their communities, I think is probably one of the best things the governor could have done to figure out how to allocate this funding.
Brandon Dennison:Can you say more about social determinants of health? Some people may be very familiar with that other listeners may have never heard of that and say more about that and connect that to how COVID, in some cases has hit minority communities harder than other communities. And why is that?
Jill Upson:So early on in the pandemic, data started to show that African Americans were just bearing the lion's share of this pandemic and outcomes. So we're talking hospitalization, ventilator use and even death in the beginning. And it's because of those underlying conditions like diabetes, obesity, high blood pressure, hypertension is a huge one in the Black community. And so when we're talking about those social determinants, it's those barriers that prevent people from having access to, to adequate health care to to get early diagnosis and treatment for a lot of these underlying illnesses. And so there are a number of the social determinants. You know, it's everything from education, to living environment. And so when I first started going out on listening tours as an example, I went into Cabell County, and I remember, you know, speaking with the people there at the large community meeting, and one of the people said to me, you know, we just want a grocery store, you know, we have to go to the gas station for food, you know, there was no grocery store and it just. It's true because you hear this word food desert, and you don't really know what it means, well, this was an actual food desert. And it's heartbreaking that you can't get that kind of economic investment into a community that is just crying out for something simple, like healthy food. And, of course, you know, with a poor diet leads to poor health outcomes, which, again, is exacerbated when something like a pandemic happens. And, you know, it's a vascular disease. And you've got, you know, several conditions like diabetes and high blood pressure, to add into the fact of what COVID does. And so that's how those social determinants factor into the poor health outcomes that we're having, and communities of color in West Virginia.
Brandon Dennison:Really, really important for our listeners to understand just so so important, what are some strategies, Director Upson, that can help us get at some of these deeper rooted issues around disinvestment around people being blocked out from opportunity? How do we how do we overcome that over the long term?
Jill Upson:So I think over the long term, we're going to have to get to a place where we are not as focused on the traditional nine to five, I think, that ship has sailed, you know, my great uncle and aunt, you know, got jobs out of high school and worked there until they retired. But, you know, those days are definitely gone, I think, and we have to get to a place where we are promoting ownership, especially in minority communities. So that, you know, encouraging entrepreneurship, you know, the, you know, when we're talking about the minimum wage, and, you know, the the income that it takes to live comfortably in today's economy, if people are going towards entrepreneurship, they're basically finding, they're identifying a need, and they're filling it. And so there is no maximum income on entrepreneurship. And so I just think we don't talk enough about ownership and the Black community, we typically, you know, steer people toward, you know, just finding a job. And then if there's no jobs, then people have no income. So I would like to see a big push for entrepreneurship.
Brandon Dennison:I love that, is it fair to say, sort of shifting from, 'Hey, go get a job.' To 'Hey, let's make new jobs for ourselves and for others?'
Jill Upson:Absolutely. And I mean, if you if you, you know, read a little bit about the history of Black Wall Street, I mean, that's basically what it was, I mean, African Americans were just completely shut out of the mainstream economy. And at the time, what did they do? They created their own economy, everything from, you know, schools, to medical services, hotels, I mean, you name it. And even the people who did go outside and work in the service industry, for, you know, lower wages, they brought that money back into that, you know, what was called Black Wall Street and spent their money there. So, I just, you know, I think that we have stopped talking about that, because we did go through, you know, the the industrial period where, you know, you could go work at a Goodyear factory and retire from it and do well in life. But I think in today's economy, you know, with, you know, moving toward a more service economy, the gig economy, things look very different. And I just think entrepreneurship is the way.
Brandon Dennison:Well, I totally agree. And I think that history you speak to is so important. And I think we've we've lost some of that history. One of the West Virginians that I'm so proud of, to have come from our state is Carter G. Woodson, right, like the considered the father of African American History, Booker T. Washington, you know, grew up here as well. Do you feel like, do we as West Virginians and others outside West Virginia, I understand the rich history and diverse history that we have here?
Jill Upson:Well, I, people who study history, absolutely. But I just think we don't talk about it enough. We don't celebrate it enough. The fact that it took a movie to be made about Katherine Johnson for her to hit all of our radar, I'm included in that number. So you know, and that's unfortunate. I mean, how proud you know did she make us and her accomplishments not just for the state but for the world. And so I think we need to we need to celebrate that type of success more and to talk about it more.
Brandon Dennison:Great people, of all colors have come from here and keep coming from here too, right?
Jill Upson:Yes, this is true. West Virginia has a lot to offer and in its people and its resources, we just need to, I think, you know, I shouldn't say not focus. But we need to also focus. So include our focus on those positive stories and those positive things that are happening in the state.
Brandon Dennison:So I like to ask all guests, what are some big changes that you've seen in West Virginia and Appalachia, in your time here? What are some big changes you think are underway now? And what are some big changes that you've not seen yet that you want to see?
Jill Upson:Oh, my. Well, I'd say some things that are happening now that I'm really pleased to see is the growth in tourism, everywhere I go, and you know, I do get to travel quite a bit. And when I'm outside of the state, people always comment on places that they had visited, in would like to visit in West Virginia. So that's, that's definitely a positive trend that I see going on that, you know, good things are happening with our tourism industry. As far as changes that I've seen, I have to think about that, I think probably the biggest change would be in our political climate, from what I moved here to now I mean, but the pendulum swings both ways. So I never think that you know, is that that type of thing is permanent. But there has definitely been a seismic shift in the voting pattern.
Brandon Dennison:No doubt about it, whether people are happy about it or not. That is a fact.
Jill Upson:And as far as what I would like to see changed, in the future, I would just say, I would like to see a continuation of a lot of the positive trends that I am seeing, and I would like to see that we continue to do those things that are going to attract people, and not necessarily stick our heads in the sand and say, you know, well, this is the way we've always done it. We can't do that here, or we're not this state or we're not that state. Well, we can, you know, be defensive all day long. But you have to look at where people are migrating to, and ask, what are those states doing that keeps attracting our people? And whatever they're doing, we need to do those things as well.
Brandon Dennison:Well, you mentioned a heart for service from a young age, it's clear that that has carried you through just an incredible life. Incredible career. I'm so glad you landed here in West Virginia, I'm so appreciative of your time. And feeling hopeful. I appreciate too. You've talked a lot about listening. And that's a skill set and a value that sometimes gets overlooked as well. So thank you for your time today. And if you have any closing messages you'd like to leave us with I'll give you the last word.
Jill Upson:Well, I just want to thank you for having me on and thank you for the work that you're doing and keeping the spotlight on West Virginia as I said and telling those positive stories. I just think that more people need to do it and I just you know wish you the best of everything and that your your impact will continue to grow in the state.
Brandon Dennison:Thank you so much. Good luck with hitting all 55 counties. I think that is awesome. And very ambitious. And I hope to see you in person soon.
Jill Upson:Thank you so much. Take care.
Brandon Dennison:Take care, thank you. Change in the Coalfields is a podcast created by Coalfield Development at the West Edge Factory in Huntington, West Virginia. This episode was hosted by Brandon Dennison, and produced and edited by JJN Multimedia. Become a part of our mission to rebuild the Appalachian economy by going to our website coalfield-development.org to make a donation. You can email us anytime at info@Coalfield-development.org and subscribe to our newsletter for up to date information on the podcast. You can follow us on Instagram, Facebook, Twitter and LinkedIn by searching for Coalfield Development. Check back soon for more episodes.