#15 - Saskia Maas @ Ovis et Cetera talks about why she consciously chose the acid dye process for her yarns

Want to know in what ways acid dyeing is better for the environment than natural dyeing? Don't miss this episode of A Smaller Life!

In my podcast A Smaller Life, I talk to makers and business owners in my industry (and sometimes beyond) about making conscious choices and growing your brand by actually going smaller.
In this episode, I welcome Saskia Maas (@ovisetcetera), an indie yarn dyer focussing on colour and the origin of fibers. Saskia makes it her business to make very conscious decisions about where her yarn comes from and what processes she uses so the impact on the environment is minimal and the effects are maximal.

Saskia and myself share more than a first name, we share a lot of values a great friendship and some fun memories. Listen in on our conversation to learn more about Saskia's inspirations and her process.

ps did you know she owns a bunch of horses and knows a lot about plants?

Find Saskia on IG @ovisetcetera and her webshop: https://ovisetcetera.com/

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Transcript

Saskia de Feijter: 0:03

This is a smaller life podcast about making more conscious and more ethical choices within our crafts. Hosted by me Saskia de Feijter. I'm a small business owner who wants to grow by going smaller. Together with local makers, I make tools, yarns and accessories for knitters that want to buy less, buy better, make more and make it less, keeping away the overwhelm, and all the ridiculousness of over consuming within our crafts. In the podcast, I endeavor to answer the question we ask ourselves before we start a project, what do we buy? Where do we buy? Who do we buy from? Or don't we buy it off, but use what we already have? Because when you think about what you do, you take more time and end up with less of everything. As a result, you'll get a smaller life. Today, I'm super excited to introduce you to Saskia mass. She's a yarn Dyer and her brand is called ofus, etc, of his being the letter name for sheep. And she has such interesting things to say about why she chooses to do certain things in her business. And that goes from choosing the base of the yarn to the technique she uses for dyeing, the kind of products that she has. She's super knowledgeable and also is a queen of conscious decisions within her business. I wish you lots and lots of fun listening to Saskia and Saskia. Hi, Saskia.

Unknown: 1:51

Hello.

Saskia de Feijter: 1:53

Have you on the podcast? Thank

Unknown: 1:55

you for having me.

Saskia de Feijter: 1:56

Yay, duo. We were just talking before we started recording, reminiscing about festivals where we have worked together. And it was actually really funny because we didn't really know each other. And then we spent a week in my camper together. So it was super intense right from the start. But we stayed really good friends and I wish I could see you more obviously. But that was so cool.

Unknown: 2:32

Yeah. yarndale good memories.

Saskia de Feijter: 2:36

Yeah. Well, let's first before we start sharing our memories with everybody. Let's first start with introducing you. Um, could you tell the people, the good people a little bit about who you are and what you do for a living or not for a living? Depends

Unknown: 2:55

how I spend my life. Yes. Okay. Well, I was born in Breda. And that's in the south of Poland near the Belgian border. And now I live again near a border buttes in Germany, close to the Dutch border, but then on the the total north of Poland's, and then just a hop over the border gets ready. for college, I went to art Well, first I did 40 cultural college, and I became a florist. And after that, I went to art school where I studied photography, then I did a lot of things. That didn't, that don't have anything to do with what I'm doing now. And now I have I have a day job next to my yarn business. And my day job is I sell houseplants and show debts relates to my florist background. And then I'm a yarn Dyer as well.

Saskia de Feijter: 4:02

And how did you become a yarn Dyer? How did to

Unknown: 4:06

I became like, I think many people nowadays thankfully became more conscious about the things that I was using. So with yarn as well, and I couldn't really find a lot of yarn, or it wasn't I mean, of course I could find it but it I noticed that the yarn that I consider to be good and nice, wasn't very widely available. That's a totally different story now because there's a lot there. That really, really changed over the last few years, but back then he was very superwash orientated. And I definitely didn't want to, I knew back then I definitely didn't want to sell superwash yarn.

Saskia de Feijter: 4:53

Can you shortly explain what superwash yarn is and why you don't like it that

Unknown: 4:59

much. Big superwash is yarn that's chemically treated so it won't felt a foothold characteristic of wool is that it can capture air. And that's how that's why wool is so warm and superwash if you have different there's different methods to make the yarn superwash either by chemically taking the scales of the of the of the yarn or the hair shaft or coating it in a layer of plastic basically. Which

Saskia de Feijter: 5:41

is always makes me laugh.

Unknown: 5:44

Yeah, it defeats the complete I mean, I maybe I'm a bit extreme but i i wouldn't even call superwash yarn wool a while especially if it's coated in plastic, then it's got nothing to do with wall and your love is lost are the good properties of wall. Yeah,

Saskia de Feijter: 6:02

yeah. And I don't like I think a lot of people have no idea. They just think but I want to be I just want to wash the wall. Yeah, I want to be able to watch the war because they have brought up with the idea that everybody everything that they use, and their bodies has to be cleaned every other second, right.

Unknown: 6:23

Yeah. And be put in a washing machine. Yeah, yes. And that's practical. But what's the alternative? Do Do we have to wash our wool? No wool wool stays clean longer. It has it has a self cleaning. How do you say that self? Yes, exactly. Sure, you can air it out. And well, I myself still when it then is necessary to wash it's still do with my wallens in the washing machine on a wall setting. And that works perfectly fine. But no, you don't you absolutely don't need to wash your your will on shops you can wear several times before they need to be washed.

Saskia de Feijter: 7:07

Here. I think a lot of people that's like the bros but really dive into that and listen to what Saskia is saying. Wool really has this self cleaning property and airing it out is is enough for at least Well, that's different for a lot of people. Like I know people that never wash their sweaters. And they just hang them out. Or I put them in the snow when we had snow snow. With socks, I can understand if at a certain point, you're like, I really kind of want to wash my socks now just for my mental comfort. Yeah. But if you really know what we'll does, you don't really need to watch it. Not that often. No,

Unknown: 7:52

not for not for, of course when you get mugged or like stains. Yes. But yeah,

Saskia de Feijter: 8:00

yeah. And I think what's also important is that from the perspective of a yarn company, you would choose superwash, because you want to sell your yarn, and you know that your customers want that. But you and I, we think differently. We think like the opposite way we know things and we want to share that knowledge. And hopefully people will change their ways because of it. But I remember hearing somebody saying this is relatively new to me that the superwash yarn takes up the dye a lot better than salutely.

Unknown: 8:43

Is that true? Absolutely. Yes. All your speckles? No, I mean, there is people who who do speckles on non superwash yarn, but the really, really sharp tiny little speckles and really

Saskia de Feijter: 8:58

the bright color part Yeah,

Unknown: 9:00

yeah, that's I mean that's just looks the best on superwash yarn and that that's just the facts and so certain dyers with a certain style choose super white superwash yarn because of that because it's it's their style, it's their there's their style of dyeing is suited for. And it's completely different if they would switch to non superwash

Saskia de Feijter: 9:24

Yeah, but you work more from the bottom up so you correct me if I'm wrong. Yeah, but so you look at the basis first where the yarn comes from, what type of base it is, and then go from there. Is that true?

Unknown: 9:37

Yes. Well, and also my my dye, I chose the, the brands and the type of dye that I use.

Saskia de Feijter: 9:46

Can you tell us a little bit more about how do you find your bases? Do you go up to a farmer and say I like your sheep

Unknown: 9:57

almost creepy.

Saskia de Feijter: 10:00

Dude, like if she come over with my scissors?

Unknown: 10:06

No, no, I don't do dads. I would love to start doing that though. Well, no, not not. Not in a creepy way like, Well, yeah, I would love to fall forward. Well, for as long as I've had my yarn business, I thought I didn't want to do that. But now I've, I've come to kind of you want to work together with with more? Yes. And have more be more in control of the of the yarn basis? I will Yes. So I would definitely like to do that in the future. But up until now I know I haven't. And I get my yarn. A yarn from as many. Yeah, how he said at wholesale. Or Mills, just, I want to have as many sources as possible. Actually, I don't want to put all my eggs in one basket. So so I get them from loads of different places.

Saskia de Feijter: 11:08

So why is that?

Unknown: 11:10

Many I like to collect just as many yarns that I like. And that fits my philosophy, or my my business philosophy. And I almost admire yarn dyers that just have like four bases, or even 10 bases, I don't know. And I always think, oh, but that's not Oh, that's nice. That's nice. That's nice. But the yarns do need to fit my philosophy.

Saskia de Feijter: 12:20

How did I do that? What is your yarn base philosophy? And how do you pick them?

Unknown: 12:26

In the beginning, it was just being non superwash. And being relatively local. I do have an exception to that are a few exceptions to that though. But in the beginning, I still had, for example, sock yarn, which was non superwash, but still had nylon in it. And I also stopped selling that because I just wants to be completely plastic free and nylon is plastic. So now all my yarn bases are non superwash, and nylon free. So just all natural materials. I have a few Dutch yarns, I have British yarns I have my silk yarn is from Switzerland. And I do have a few yarns, which are the wool and comes from South American, its ultra spun in South America. But those yarns have rambley edits, which I find just very special. And they're just really nice yarn basis. And because I like the yarn basis so much and because the Rami Rami is a plant fiber, which is very strong, it's almost bit like hemp. But Rami is related to the nettle family. So it substitutes, not nylon. And shoulder yarns with the Rami in it are very good for shock yarns, but they're just overall very nice yarns for basically everything.

Saskia de Feijter: 14:08

So just shortly for listeners that are not great knitters, we tend to want to use nylon in sock knitting, mostly because it helps us to improve the durability. So less holes, less heels and toes that are poking out. And so this is a whole discussion right in the sock knitting world like do we do we want the socks to last longer so that they are more, I don't know sustainable in that way. Or don't we want to use anything that is manmade and not helping the environment in the process and as a product. So I have spent some time learning about this and I have used your sock yarn. And I've actually also even used Merino yarn for socks which they say the fibers way too short and you you cannot use Merino for sock yarns unless there's nylon in there or something. But there's so much that you could do to make your socks more wearable like tighter knitting, make them fit better make your shoes fit better, make sure that you do walk on your stone floor at home like there's all these different things that can really help to make your socks last longer. But this ramie is is amazing and silk as well. We do have natural fibers that that improve the durability of our socks.

Unknown: 15:44

Yes. In the way of spinning as well, if if yarn is spun with a high twist, it's also more durable.

Saskia de Feijter: 15:53

Yeah. One day one day I'll I'll put on my ballsy hat. And I'll ask Clara Parkes if she wants to come in and talk about sock knitting one day, everyone react to this podcast and leave messages and say yes, get Clara and then I'll knock on her door. And I'll ask her.

Unknown: 16:17

You can't now though, because you can't fly over to America as gnomes.

Saskia de Feijter: 16:22

No, but this is like maybe a futures? No, but I'm here for the podcasts.

Unknown: 16:27

Yeah, but you can literally knock on her door.

Saskia de Feijter: 16:29

No, no, there's not a literal things going on? No, no, I will just make a knock noise and on Instagram.

Unknown: 16:40

Weird. Yeah, oh, I actually have one more thing to say about, like non superwash. And no nylon sock yarn purchase. Because I the people, I've also read and heard a lot of people who are so used to superwash, nylon sock yarn. Then for the first time knit socks, out of non superwash yarn. And then when you wear the socks, wherever there's friction, so under your heel or under the ball of your foods, they say oh, but immediately my socks fells and I didn't even put them in the washing machine yet. And they already fell just by wearing them. That's actually not felting. So that actually says that people are not used to how woo behaves? Because yes, when they're friction, then we'll kind of becomes one, all the little strands become one. And it's called netting. And which makes your shop stronger. So under Yeah, all those places that have friction, and your shock mats, makes your soccer stronger. Such good information. So don't panic when you when you wear your non superwash socks for the first time and you take them off. And and you see that happening? Because that's actually good. And yeah, yeah, I'll get off my soapbox now.

Saskia de Feijter: 18:18

That's why you're here because I know you know so much about this. And so you share a lot of values with me when it comes to locally produced and animal friendly and all those kinds of things. So you try to buy as local as you can. And then I always say we live in Holland Holland is super small, local to a Dutch person is something else then local to an American person. So in my opinion, I think Europe feels like locally enough when it comes to yarn and wool, because in the Netherlands we don't have as many types of sheep or do we?

Unknown: 19:05

We do but I'm absolutely no sheep experts. I'm not I know I know the I know a bit of the breed stats I that my yarn.

Saskia de Feijter: 19:16

Yeah, that's what I want to know about. Oh, I'm from the Netherlands.

Unknown: 19:21

Okay, well, Shetlands. I have Tesla. We have a shipment is not the Dutch green. There you go. It's Greece. But they live here. They live in Holland. Yes. Tesla. Is it a fairy dust sheet though? And

Saskia de Feijter: 19:37

that's what I think. English speaking people call Texel.

Unknown: 19:42

Oh, okay. Yeah, what's it that? I mean? I like obviously I like otherwise I wouldn't sell it. But sessionable isn't the most nice are shops or it's just it's it isn't? No. And I think a lot of people that buy Tesla yarn from, like, non dodge people who buy Tesla yarn. Mostly buy for the name. I have the feeling. Yeah, because it sounds exotic, which sounds weird because it sounds everything but exotic to us. But if nobody Tesla is I mean, yeah, again, I sell it. I like it. I have Tesla shops myself, which I absolutely love. But it's it's it's absolutely not the nicest wall that I can think of far from

Saskia de Feijter: 20:37

Yeah, exactly. Like you could totally scrub Your skin with it and then have like, really soft skin.

Unknown: 20:45

Yes,

Saskia de Feijter: 20:45

but isn't it like an acquired taste though? Like if you if you get into all this nitty gritty of the of the yarn and fiber worlds, you learn so much about wool and its properties. And then if you knit a lot, or if you work with wool, you, you get curious and you want to know what properties what kind of sheep or fiber has and then if you know more, you know what to use what kind of fiber for so definitely, I would never knit a tesselaar shawl or scarf around my neck because it's quite sensitive. But socks. Yes, definitely. Oh, yeah, absolutely. Yeah, yeah. So in Shetlands, I think I consider Shetland. A very soft wall.

Unknown: 21:40

Yes, me too.

Saskia de Feijter: 21:41

Yeah. But I think the general public talks about it as if it's really itchy. I really wish that I would love to give people like a like a tasting platter, like a smorgasbord of different types of fiber and let them try it out and really get the feel for this whole world that's out there. And that's what I love so much about all your basis, they have all these characteristics, and you, you tie them together in the collection, so well, they all really look like ofus that say throw a yarn, even though the base is so different. And you do that by dyeing your yarns a certain way. Let's dive a little deeper into that, um, your colors are amazing. They're so typically you, but people often think there's something that they're not.

Unknown: 22:35

Oh, yeah. Yeah, because I kind of focus on that my yarns are very consciously dyed and consciously sourced and environmentally friendly. So people then think that I that I use natural dyes. And also I think because of the use of colors, I think that

Saskia de Feijter: 22:53

they I think so yeah, I remember I say that to you. And you're like Oh, really? Because I feel like your colors really reminds me of naturally dyed yarns. There's a specific specific palettes. And they look like they might have been dyed in a natural way.

Unknown: 23:11

Yeah, but it sounds funny to me because it's Yeah, and I really up on festivals as well. Again, when we could still go to festivals. People often are like, oh, should natural naturally dies? No, oh, I taught you you did natural dying. But No, I don't. I usually acid die. But I use a environmentally friendly as you die. And it's g OTS certifies doesn't contain any heavy metals and my brands that the brands that I use, it's green sheets, dyes actually only comes in nine colors, and it's the primary color shows a yellow, blue, and red. And then all the complimentary colors in between show orange, purple, green, and black. That's basically it's when I started dying, I never really went for a shirt and color palettes. And to be honest, I remember when when we went to yarndale which was no it wasn't my It was my only my seconds, yarn. showboats the one before was just I had I had a tiny little stall and it was just it was just, it was tiny and yarndale was the actual proper proper stand. It was he had such a

Saskia de Feijter: 24:38

pretty spot. It looks

Unknown: 24:40

good. And it was big. It was really big. Absolutely. And I remember for the first time, which was kind of weird for the first time seeing my yarn on display in such a way and I thought oh, I only saw my yarn at home in in bins. Like and I was so afraid that it wasn't cohesive because I never went for this or why not it I never I just die whatever I like I like Oh, I like this color. So our guide that I try to diagnose

Saskia de Feijter: 25:13

your taste is very cohesive,

Unknown: 25:15

apparently because I remember seeing it all hanging there and I thought oh so sexy. It's it's it does all fit together nicely. And I was I was so relieved because I thought it was going to be a hot mess of colors together.

Saskia de Feijter: 25:32

It is so funny that you say that because I never never never thought that like I think it's one of your strong points. Actually.

Unknown: 25:40

Yeah, but I never did that on purpose. So it feels like a lucky accident almost.

Saskia de Feijter: 25:47

So it isn't natural, in a way,

Unknown: 25:50

I guess Yes.

Saskia de Feijter: 25:53

Maybe. But um, let's get back to that God certified green way of dying because I think a lot of people have the impression that natural natural dyeing has to be good for the environment,

Unknown: 26:08

yes, and in a way, in a way it is, of course, but those plants or whatever, yeah, whatever is used also has to grow show, it also uses resources. I'm not definitely not a natural dye expert. So but what I know of it is to die in a natural way It costs a lot of us, most of the time, it needs to simmer for a very long time, which uses a lot of heat, it uses a lot of water, because you need to rinse it's a lot, then you need to set the die. Not always. But in most cases, you need to set to die with a Morton's which, again, uses water and again uses heat. So it's a long process, which is beautiful. Of course, it's very slow, and it is fascinating, but it's absolutely not the most important mentally friendly way of dying that you can think of, I very consciously chose to die, the way I die, because with acid dies, you only need to bring the water up to certain beats, which is just below boiling temperature. And when it's there, it's there, you can just you can turn the heat off, and it's it sets the dice sets. And, and when you make sure your all your your color is being I don't know how to explain it correctly.

Saskia de Feijter: 27:42

The water can become clean, basically. Oh, absolutely,

Unknown: 27:45

yes. So when you don't use too much dye, so that all the yarn can soak up all the dye, then you only need a little rinse, because there's nothing to rinse out of the only reason I rinse is to, to kind of neutralize the acidity because you die in very acidic water. And when you range I use a bit of show and which makes it kind of neutral again.

Saskia de Feijter: 28:17

Can I go back to once one step back is when you use that acidity, it could be either citric acid or vinegar and vinegar smell so a little bit more. But if everything you have left from that process, you can without any harm to the environment or not a lot of harm. You can just throw it out, you know? Yes, but the the more than she used in the natural dye process, not all of them I know but some of them are basically heavy metals. Yes. And you have to dispose of them in a very conscious manner. Hmm,

Unknown: 28:57

I don't know enough about it. But yeah, I yeah. The the chemicals that are being used for natural dyeing, which you don't have to but with some colors you do because otherwise they fade. It's It sounds very counter, you use something natural, but you need something unnatural you and then again, you can also use net like soy milk, but then soy I don't think is the most environment.

Saskia de Feijter: 29:27

So good. Invite a natural Dyer and ask them about how they do it the most conscious way possible. Yes, I know a little bit about the process of both processes. And no these lovely lovely people that use the Nash natural dye process that have a lot of values like we do. So I'm sure they've found ways to make the impact a little less, but I can totally see why you've chosen to go in this direction.

Unknown: 29:59

Yeah,

Saskia de Feijter: 29:59

yeah and so you can you mix the colors like you said they're eight or eight colors

Unknown: 30:05

yeah nine Katya with black nine colors. Yeah, yeah, so they all have they they all have to be mixed in order to to become a nice like just the plain colors are just fairy Crayola, like

Saskia de Feijter: 30:19

Yeah, yeah. Could you describe the type of colors that you make what they look like maybe mentioned some colors?

Unknown: 30:27

I think clay and toffee are very nice, I think. Yeah, I think all my colors are kind of have a kind of dust yes about them. Me.

Saskia de Feijter: 30:40

They do. Jeans jeans type of colors like worn jeans. Yes.

Unknown: 30:45

Yeah. Which actually a color a color way of mine is literally called favorite jeans so that it does have the color of warm jeans.

Saskia de Feijter: 30:55

Yeah. And it looks like in the combination with these gray type colors. It does look it might like it might have been the blue helped me out. Oh, indigo, indigo. Yes. So yeah, you get that whole feeling with the combined palette of it's definitely, it has that aesthetic. So that's what I love about your work that you do aesthetic of the natural linen, Clay like hand thrown pottery, that whole vibe, your yarns have that while you've spent so much time on making these decisions to do it the best way you can with respect for the environment. And I think that is really admirable.

Unknown: 31:43

Thank you. I kind of find it funny to hear your description of my colors because I never I never went for that feeling. Like I said I never I never taught Oh, I'm gonna go for the clay clay trowing linen five.

Saskia de Feijter: 32:02

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Unknown: 33:01

I never taught Oh, I'm going to go for the clay clay trowing linen five. So it just happened. Like I don't know. It just

Saskia de Feijter: 33:15

it's it's who you are.

Unknown: 33:17

I guess I don't know.

Saskia de Feijter: 33:18

You are a lover of nature of plants. You have a bunch of animals.

Unknown: 33:25

Yeah, we have a tiny little doggie. And two cats. And five horses, five horses. Yes, Icelandic horses and a Shetland pony.

Saskia de Feijter: 33:36

So that must take up a lot of time.

Unknown: 33:39

It does as well. But yeah, I don't know. I mean, I don't know any better read. Well, I would there was a time that I didn't have horses of course. But

Saskia de Feijter: 33:48

so you have a day job. You have your your own business you have, like almost a farm. What is the typical day look like at OVAs at a dinner? Well,

Unknown: 34:01

I do. I'll tell you my ideal day because,

Saskia de Feijter: 34:05

yeah, let's do that focus on the ideal day.

Unknown: 34:07

My ideal day. My ideal day my day job starts in the afternoon because I get I actually always try to most people like to be finished early. So they have the afternoon off and I'm an absolute morning person. I always get up really early. So I love to for my day job to start late. What's early. Usually I get up at six. That's early. Yeah. And so when I have one, I have to start my day job at 12. That means I have six hours, which is almost a full workday left to spend. So that that's that's how I like to do it. And while for example, the pots are simmering, because the preparation of getting the actual yarn in the pub that takes up the most time but when they're in the pots and when they're slowly getting to they're the right temperature that usually takes over half an hour. Then I can for example go and feed divorces or go and take the dog out. So yeah, I like I when I'm really busy. Finishing the whole wholesale order. For example, I I always do yarn dyeing in the morning, and when it's a workday for my day job then I spend the rest of the day. That's my day job and I'm not an evening person. I can't do anything after. When I come home from my day job. That's no that's it. I'm on yes So I like to spend my dying time either on my date off or before I have to go to work.

Saskia de Feijter: 35:47

So if you because you're a knitter, to as a hobby knitter, yes. Do you do that at night? Can you still have the brainpower to do that a night? Yeah,

Unknown: 35:58

I or Yeah, when I can stay away. That's when I can stay away, then. Yes. Then I'd like to knit in the but also also in the morning when I don't I mean, I definitely don't dye yarn every single morning before I go to work, because but If yes, then I do my meeting, either in the morning before I go to work, or in the evening after dinner.

Saskia de Feijter: 36:24

And what does your workplace look like? Do you work in the house or?

Unknown: 36:30

Yes? Yeah, just in the kitchen? Yep. Really? Yeah. Yeah, I don't have a fancy studio or not saying no, it's just in so I have to clean up everything after myself again. Wow. Yeah. The kitchen in the bathroom all the all the rinsing of the yarn. But and in our house, the kitchen and the bathroom are literally next to each other, which is coming in so

Saskia de Feijter: 36:54

yeah, like colored drops, like a trend from No, no, no,

Unknown: 36:59

no, no, actually not. Because what we just talked about when you're when all the dye goes into your yarn, yeah, there's nothing there's nothing there's no dye to be spelt.

Saskia de Feijter: 37:12

At. That doesn't mean that you have to be like yarn dyeing isn't hard. But doing those things to get them just right. That's where you get really professional at it. Because when you die in the beginning, you will still get a lot of color out of this games. If you rinse them. You have to really know the right temperatures and all these things and you definitely will learn that by doing i think is that how how did you actually learn? First watching YouTube videos, literally, and just start doing it. I just did loads and loads and loads of 10 gram, skeins, and yeah, the mini skeins? Yeah, and first and then then like, oh, when I put just a tiny little bit more green then and it just loads and loads and loads and load trial and error.

Unknown: 38:06

Yes, the way I do my colors I and I think that's where my photography background comes in. Because if you will, if you print color pictures, I don't know if you've ever done that in color adavi only black and white, okay, but it works the same as as basically editing a photo on the computer where you take away a yellow hue or when your pictures to blue or your picture can be two reds and and the same is with yarn colors. I that's how I do my yarn colors. If I have a certain color or a color comes out of the pulse on if I'm trying to get a certain color. And I I see Oh, there is a bit too much yellow, it or the color looks too yellow for what I want. Then you can add a bit of blue for example, or take out a bit yellow, but I so I dye my yarns, I guess the way you edit. Picture color picture says so

Saskia de Feijter: 39:16

fun. That that's Yeah, so where did you Where do you get your inspiration for colors?

Unknown: 39:23

Um, you just mentioned nature and all but that that's funnily enough, not where my inspiration comes from. It comes from fashion, like the color toffee. Yeah, I saw somebody with a coat walking through the shop of my day job and I thought that's a nice color. And I I remembered that color and I tried to replicate, replicate it. So that's how toffee came to me.

Saskia de Feijter: 39:56

So you don't think like I would love to have a toffee colored sweater. I'm now making that color.

Unknown: 40:02

No, because I know I saw the color. I saw a coat I saw somebody with a coat in that color. And I think kind of the same wash with clay that was just a color that well that their depression maybe comes in because that was just the color that you just saw a lot of

Saskia de Feijter: 40:19

Yeah, yeah. And it's like a hidden Kish pinkish sand ish type,

Unknown: 40:25

like a very dirty painter. Yeah.

Saskia de Feijter: 40:29

Basically the color of my walls, actually, but nobody can see them.

Unknown: 40:36

Yeah, but you just saw that color around a lot and I liked it. I like to color so I tell well I and in the end that we what we make with yarn is going to be fashion in a way you're going to wear it. So you want to you want it to be fashionable colors that you get you also see a ready to wear clothes and

Saskia de Feijter: 40:57

as a yarn Dyer, because we've talked to Brett here earlier and she makes spindles. So we were talking about spinning, and a lot of spinners spin for the sake of spinning. And then they have this skein of yarn. And that's the finished objects, right? Which is crazy for some people because they're like, no, that's what it starts, then you start knitting or crocheting or weaving. And that's when it starts. My question to you is, do you look at your yarn as a finished object? Or do you have a vision of what it will become? Do you do or there's like two chapters or is it a cocktail? But maybe you know what I mean?

Unknown: 41:42

And kind of what I think both because a skein, sometimes a skein can be just very, very pretty as a skein and you would almost, you almost find it a shame to even make get into a yarn ball or into this. Yeah, and that's, that's, that's for all yarns. That is I think, but definitely also, the commercial needs to be wearable. And yeah, no, I think I think of the colors as like, Oh, I would like to have garments or shops or out of that column.

Saskia de Feijter: 42:23

you'd wear it everywhere. Yeah. I was wondering if we talked about speckles, and you're not dying speckles. And we talked about the technical reason behind that. But do you dye mostly solids like one color? Or what do you yarn? Does your yarn look like in terms of the way the color is spreads in the skin?

Unknown: 42:53

Most of my colors are solid or semi solid or very mildly variegated? Yeah, they're not. They're not too wild. Not that you can't wear wild colors. But that's not my personal style and taste, I guess. Yeah. For socks. I guess when I when I dye yarn with the ID that it's that it? It could be a sock, so the actual sock yarns. I think that's a bit more fun to make the colors a bit more fun. And I also have yarns that's idi with shibori style. So they have they have speckles, but actually not

Saskia de Feijter: 43:42

that's because it was tight. So that the yarn the color doesn't reach the base.

Unknown: 43:48

Yeah, exactly. So they have Yeah, they have little mom died. specs, the variegated colors are spiritually I don't have a lot of them. And still the colors that are in those colorways or are kind of related. Yeah, yeah, so they're all or in blue, or greenish family together.

Saskia de Feijter: 44:10

They all have that quality of a hand dyed yarn, where it's not a solid color block. And they all are very lively. And also some of the urines that you have have these little because of the way you mix, you mix your colors, they have this little bit of a tiny piece of color here and there that yes, it's not supposed to be in there. But it's so characteristic. What is that about?

Unknown: 44:38

That is that's actually just the die comes in powder form. And those tiny little specks are actually little powdery bits that happens, for some reason have not been dissolved in the water and then stuck to the yarn. And inch they love them. Yeah, that's that's that's what it is. So it's actually not it's it. Oh my god. No.

Saskia de Feijter: 45:03

Three giggles in the yarn.

Unknown: 45:07

It's nuts. They're not supposed to be there. But yeah, well,

Saskia de Feijter: 45:11

if you find one and you don't like it, you can just cut it and start knitting again. But I love them. And they're not like all over the yarn or anything. I just saw one or two and I it's really fun. Now, let's talk a little bit about sets. Cuz I think we are both lovers of sets.

Unknown: 45:37

Yes, yeah. I love them. Yeah, yes. Yes. Yeah mini mini skein sets him off.

Saskia de Feijter: 45:47

Sometimes you do a fifth? What is it? 25 grams 25 grams or a 5050 Shetlands, you have, because I used to sell scales yarn in my shop. And this is fun to talk about for me because the general customer, let's just say the general customer is a little bit freaked out by set. What? What am I supposed to do with them? And we like the sauces are the exact opposite. We're like, what can I make with it?

Unknown: 46:19

Yeah, what can you not make? Yeah, yeah, give us some ideas. Well, that used to or to mention to Shetland 5050 sets are they actually do have a purpose and that's for the mittens or colourwork mittens or hats. You could also make heads out of it, but that's really, they're really really suitable for collar work. And with a set of two times 50 grams shoot that's perfect for a pair of mittens or hats. So they do kind of have a specific purpose but of course, you could also use it in a yogi just get a set and and and use another yarn for the whole body and use those two colors in the yoke that's possible as well. And then I also do mini skein sets for a long time they they didn't have any purpose or unlimited purposes actually. Also, stripey socks or shawl boarders, sweater yolks, whatnot. blankets, but a while back. Cynthia who's from Cynthia on Instagram and revelry she actually bought a mini skein satin, my mini skein set from you which I thought was again a very nice connection again, she designs to Bonnie's and a full wardrobe for these bunnies with a mini skein set using up as much as possible of this whole main use case set which I think is a genius she goes

Saskia de Feijter: 48:04

she's going to be on the podcast too later

Unknown: 48:06

Oh great. Lovely and so that that's perfect purpose for if you really can't think of anything that all cnts little creatures could be knits with were diminished Ganesha basically what Yeah, no

Saskia de Feijter: 48:24

I love limitless possibilities. Open up your heads and and just basically just go to the Instagram accounts of Saskia and Cynthia and if you find hashtag mini skein or Pinterest, revelry wherever you want to go find mini skein projects, and there's so much there. I also wanted to mention the skein, Dears, Pat's, and she has really nice patterns that you can use. Saskia, has yarns with from mittens and stuff. And you can also see on Cisco's Instagram accounts like examples of that. Do you actually look at the colors if they work together? Because that's like a whole different skill set right to know colors that work together in color work? Or do you just go like oh, this is pretty

Unknown: 49:21

bows as well, actually, I, again, looking at fashion, but also interior design. There's often like pillows or curtains that have a certain certain pattern, which a combination of colors that I think who those colors look really, really nice together. That so that that's that's also where I get my inspiration from it can it can literally come from the curtains anywhere.

Saskia de Feijter: 49:51

So I want it to end with a little bit more of a business see vibe. So we've spent a lot of time talking about the artisanal side. So there's like your ideas for color. That's where your your artist wakes up and then your artisanal side where you like go behind the pots and make the thing but then you need to sell it. Now you have an online workshop and we've mentioned yarn shows before. Obviously there's not a lot of yarn shows right now. And I used to sell your yarns in my shop. We spend a lot of time talking about prices with breath here and also other guests that are coming. But I'm more interested this time to talk with you about how do you get your yarns out there?

Unknown: 50:51

To be honest, it's just Instagram. That is my, my, my shop window to the world. Exactly. Yeah, my my form of self promotion and marketing. I really should get a newsletter out and then not just one but like, yeah, I should do that. done a few. But that that's already a lifetime ago. But I yeah, I need to get better at that. And I guess word of mouth as well and learn shows I Oh, I I never could have imagined that I would enjoy them as much as I have been before I started doing those because that's it. Those are just so fun. Yeah, they are. Yeah, they're really. And I think it's

Saskia de Feijter: 51:44

so funny, because I basically learned from you and from reading different books about the topic, that although people might not see me as such, I am a total introvert as well as you are, I think,

Unknown: 51:59

yes, absolutely.

Saskia de Feijter: 52:00

We are completely knackered after all that communication with people and all the sounds and the colors and everything. But that doesn't mean that we don't enjoy it. Right, like coming together with people. And talking about your project and showing off your skills is such a wonderful thing.

Unknown: 52:19

Yes. Oh, and I love it. And I love seeing seeing your customers, because there's loads of time, people come up to you. And they say, Oh, no, and they come show you pictures of things that they made from which your yarn and, and or they they tell you their Instagram name and then you're like, Oh, it's you. It's so nice to meet those people in real life. And any other way around. Because people come up to you and you say, Oh, yeah, nice to finally see you. And yeah, it's just it's so rewarding to do that.

Saskia de Feijter: 52:59

That's a great word is really rewarding. Yeah. Yeah. And just like, it's like meeting people from your, um, I don't want to use the word tribe, because I don't think it's a really good word to use in this way. But maybe clan, that's the same thing, like people from with a similar that feel like family. Right? Yeah, you're

Unknown: 53:22

you're kind of people. Yeah, yeah.

Saskia de Feijter: 53:25

Yeah. And that's, that's almost magical. And I really missed that, then. But like, I have the I could like compare having a shop and going to shows and this is going to be a show a solo show in the future. But I used to be kind of critical as well about the shows, because although I know they're so important for the small businesses, they can kind of get in the way of the of the local yarn shop. Because people go travel for shows and then spend all their budget on the small businesses that are there. And then the local yarn shop kind of feels that right. I can see that's kind of a whole different thing. We're not going to go there right now. But what I so loved about selling your products on the show is that people will come especially for you and they already understand what it is that you're doing what it is that you're trying to say your message they they kind of already understand. There's no Rouse, like, I don't want to call customers clutter. But I've mentioned this before in the podcast that there's there's people that don't understand the level of values that you have when selling your and they just want a cheap ball of yarn. And in a show they are there because they love what you do.

Unknown: 54:57

Well, they're almost most of the people are actually real yarn. connoisseurs. Yes. And they understand. Yeah, they understand the value of good yarn. Yeah, exactly.

Saskia de Feijter: 55:10

And that makes it so fun. Yeah, because you don't have to go into this whole discussion of price and why it costs what it costs because most of them already understand that they're especially there to get it. So

Unknown: 55:25

yeah, I don't have to have comparison. Yeah, people would never really even get to my website if you're looking for acrylic yarn. So yeah,

Saskia de Feijter: 55:36

they won't even land where you are. That's true. If you're a yarn shop in a street, people will notice yarn shop and all kinds of yarn is expected there. So yeah, yeah,

Unknown: 55:49

yeah, I can't I can't imagine.

Saskia de Feijter: 55:52

Oh, gosh, let's just hope that we can go back to the kind of being together. Yes. And sharing the love for what we do with people. Yeah. Also love it. I can't wait. And let's do it together together again.

Unknown: 56:06

Yeah, and then well, and that and now in your case, as well. If you only have an online shop, people never normally never have the chance to see everything together and exaggerates and, and squishes. I can I could definitely if somebody says, Oh, I'm so curious for disentis Bass could could I maybe could you maybe send me a sample? I absolutely would do that. But that's nothing compared to just seeing the whole everything together and be able to compare and feel it's sold yarn shows our our wealth for both for both us as business small business owners as the customer. Just very important and fun.

Saskia de Feijter: 56:53

And you do have some shops that sell your yarn. Yes,

Unknown: 56:57

yes. But they, of course, also never have the whole collection. They never have all the bases they choose,

Saskia de Feijter: 57:04

but they can like if there's no show, they are basically your your shop windows in the country, or do you sell worldwide? Do you have shops worldwide?

Unknown: 57:16

Yes, yeah. I have a few shops in America now that those are the most current ones that I'm working with. So they, yeah. So people in America, that's,

Saskia de Feijter: 57:32

we'll make sure that people know where to find you. But if you could just state your Instagram account and your website right now, that would be really good. Okay. Yeah, that's both overseas cetera.

Unknown: 57:46

So Instagram is just ofus, etc, just all as one word. And my website is always et cetera.com. Great.

Saskia de Feijter: 57:56

Thank you so much. I think we covered it all.

Unknown: 57:59

Thank you.

Saskia de Feijter: 58:00

Thank you so much, Saskia.

Unknown: 58:01

Well, thank you.

Saskia de Feijter: 58:03

I told you this was going to be a good one. Do you have any questions? After listening to a couple of episodes? Do you feel like you are getting the gist of what I'm trying to do with this podcast? A smaller life? Did you know that on the website, we have a little button you can click and you can leave a message. I would love it if you go over there. And let me know what you think of the episode if you have any questions, and I'm happy to answer them in another episode. Everything is welcome. If you just want to leave an idea for the podcast, it's just it's open. Go ahead, leave me a message. Thank you. And I hope you listen again next time by a smaller life is more than just a podcast. It's connected to your hope and in the yarn and tool shop from Rotterdam in the Netherlands. With an online community that's all about bringing back the consciousness in a crafting practice in businesses. The website is www j A dash w o al calm, find our conscious products. Learn more about the free community and sign up for our punches knitting club membership and our weekly newsletter. You can follow me on Instagram at Evo what's a DME. If you're a regular listener, consider making a monthly contribution and becoming a sponsor through our Patreon page. If you're able to make a financial contribution, it will mean a lot. The show is free for you, but it's not free to produce. If you own a business that fits the narrative I will happily make and many commercial for you. If you are a makers small business owner or otherwise experienced in running a business with a conscience or know someone that fits the description and wants to tell my listeners about your experiences. Get in touch with me via a website or send me a DM on Instagram. Knowing more and choosing with a conscious makes the world better. If you have any questions about an episode or want to leave a note to me and the other listeners click the button in the latest show notes on the website. One of the easiest things you can do to support the podcast is to leave an honest review on Apple podcasts. subscribe to the podcast on the platform of your choice so you'll never miss an episode and share it in your social network or even just mentioning it over coffee with a friend. I'm only one person and I count on you to help me spread the message. Thanks for listening