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The Everyday Trainer Podcast
The Everyday Trainer Podcast
E-Collar Training, Crate Strategies, and Managing a High-Energy Dog
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Meg shares insights from a virtual training session with her client Molly, who is working through reactivity issues with her high-energy husky mix, Murphy, after early socialization at dog parks and daycare created frustration-based leash reactivity.
• Distinguishing between fear-based and frustration-based reactivity
• Why dog parks and daycares can create reactivity in some dogs
• Detailed explanation of e-collar conditioning process and finding working levels
• Strategies for becoming more relevant to your dog than environmental distractions
• How to properly introduce and use a crate for dogs that struggle to settle
• Tips for managing dogs with luxating patella without rushing to surgery
• Alternatives to "place" commands for dogs that can't be held accountable yet
• The importance of limiting rewards to meaningful behaviors rather than mediocre compliance
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Hello, hello, welcome back to the Everyday Trainer podcast. My name is Meg and I am a dog trainer. Today's episode is a virtual session with my good client, molly. So we are currently working through some reactivity with her dog, murphy. Now we've done tons of privates and she's absolutely killing it, but I wanted to give you guys kind of an inside look into what I prescribed her at the beginning of the training process. So, like so many owners, molly went to dog parks, doggy daycare and now Murphy struggles with overexcitement reactivity. So this is a really good episode if you too have made those mistakes early on in your dog's life and now you're in the process of working through them. So you know the drill.
Client Background and Current Challenges
Speaker 2Grab yourself a tasty drink and enjoy all right, so go ahead, tell me all the things. Yeah, so okay, I got murphy. Um, she's like 20 months now. I got her when she was like three or four months, so like last july. Okay, she's a shelter dog from mexico. Um, I had a, so she's a Husky 30%, husky 20%, pit bull and then a million things. She's got golden retriever, german shepherd boxer, whatever. She's very high energy, very like concerned.
Speaker 2So like a door slams two blocks down and she hears it and is looking. You know what I mean. Um, but she's a pretty happy dog, but there's some reactivity and I don't not sure where that came from, but maybe it's from daycare and dog parks and then, um, it's not awful. We are working through. I just want to have more tips to help her and help myself. So she's really high energy. She's a busy gal. She like doesn't settle a lot.
Speaker 2I'm a gal that is go, go, go. So I'm that way, she's that way, maybe I don't know. So I want to probably work that on myself, but I also want her to be able to like no-transcript. So she like didn't do a lot of the things. So we never really did a crate. I feel like maybe I need to introduce that, not sure, but I just, yeah, I think I need some help because she so she does. I'm trying to do dog parks less because I am seeing more and more of folks trainers saying, yuck, it's a no Um, and I do daycare. I do like daycare for her. There's like 12 dogs. It's right close to here and she absolutely loves it, um, so I probably will continue that because I work remote and I have a really busy job so it's like I can't. I have time to give her, but I don't. You know what I mean. So I try to do that once a week, but I just don't know.
Speaker 2I mean and we do like. So we start in the morning, we do a 45 minute walk or so, then I try to do some sort of ball or treat game outside behind my house. There's like a just a runway, if you will, no grass but um, and then it's like really hard for her to settle those first couple of hours and then she's okay Mostly throughout the day. But I want to work on the inside of the house where she can settle, but the outside too, to maybe, you know, give her more tools, or myself more tools to help her with some reactivity and pulling on the leash.
Speaker 1Uh, yeah, cool. What does reactivity look like?
Speaker 2So it's. It's not consistent. Um, if typically it's bigger dogs and she will, she does the stop and stare, so she's like overly observant. I try not to let that happen. I know that's a no-no, right, that's going to cause more things, so I try to keep her moving. Let me think, though, she will bark, or a growl-ish. If I could get her moving when she's growling, that's great, and we usually avoid the barking she doesn't like. I think it's a fear base, like she's not gonna go after a dog. Okay, am I explaining it? Is there other terms that you could?
Speaker 2help me with what makes you think that it's fear-based because, well, sometimes her hair will go up, the tail goes straight, ish, okay. Um, definitely not loose, uh, body and um, I think I just feel like with bigger dogs she's concerned, okay, small dog, she's like whatever, and dogs we've seen whatever occasionally. She's okay with a dog that's bigger, okay, that's what I think, though I don't know um, is there?
Speaker 1what are you walking her on? What type of leash?
Speaker 2so currently we have a prong okay, collar. Okay, we've done the slip one or whatever, where I have it around her nose head, around her neck. I just got an e-collar okay, e-collar technologies or whatever. Um, because I really would like to introduce that yeah because I'm also not very relevant to her and I think that's my. I know that that's probably on me. Um, you don't have to blame yourself well, a lot of it is, though I mean I'm with'm with her all the time.
Speaker 1It's really not. I feel like that's like a very common thing is, I don't know. I feel like dog trainers make owners feel guilty, but you have a difficult dog Like anything mixed with a Husky is automatically like working against genetics there.
Speaker 1So the reason why I ask like what does it look like? Cause that helps me get a better picture of what type of reactivity that we're working with. So whenever somebody is taking their dog to dog parks or doggy daycare, usually the type of reactivity that I'm seeing is just over arousal because want to go greet that dog. Cause that's what they're doing in those spaces, yeah, and we're holding them back and so it's frustration. Okay, yes, do you think that maybe?
Speaker 2so I definitely think that, yes, now when she gets to the dog park which again I'm really trying to not do that as much, I'm trying to find different spaces for her to do that because I feel like she's overly stimulated. Yeah, she barks when she gets there. She's like, you know, all over the place. She'll settle after a while. But I realized just in the last couple of weeks I'm like I don't even know if I think she enjoys it, but maybe it's too much for her. Yeah, you know, cause it's a lot going on. It is a lot and.
Speaker 1I will say I like went to a few dog parks like around the area. I was like, oh my gosh, which one one in Encinitas, I have no idea. Oh okay one in Encinitas, and then we went to one like outside of San Diego, maybe more like inland.
Speaker 2Okay, yeah, um, it was wild yeah, I mean we do go like if we go, we go at like seven. There's probably like eight dogs there, but I have been scratching that. But anyway, back to yeah, it's probably frustration because she she likes, but I do think there's still some fear because I know she wants to meet dogs. But I also feel like she's like a little bit concerned yes, um, is there pressure on the leash?
Speaker 1yeah, he's like loading up on the dogs.
Speaker 2Yes, and she will dig her heels in and not go and I'm like, oh my god, so she stops, yes, and so I try to not avoid that, but it can't.
Understanding Reactivity Type and Triggers
Speaker 1It doesn't always happen, okay, depending on where we're at in the street or side of the street or okay, um, you might also be dealing with like if, especially if she's stopping like that, a bit of like trolling behavior, and so I don't necessarily it doesn't sound like fearful reactivity okay more like frustration and you're limiting her.
Speaker 1Okay, you have her on a leash. She's frustrated because she wants to go greet that dog and she can't Right. Also, like, even if she is a little bit insecure yeah, there's always this combo of like insecure but like also kind of like bossy dogs. Yeah, they feel secure when they can control the situation. Okay, so she feels more secure when she can be the one greeting the dog, right, I think it's a bit of like oh, I'm not in control and like this frustrates me and this makes me like feel some type of way.
Speaker 1Okay, so the pressure on the leash is essentially becoming like that frustration for her right, you know um, I'm not super, I'm not completely anti-daycare, as long as it's like a decent one and they're limiting the dogs like playing too rough throughout the day. But if she's allowed to basically kind of like rush up to other dogs and like bully them in a way all day, then when she can't do that she's going to get super frustrated.
Speaker 2Okay.
Speaker 1I'm fine, like once.
Speaker 1a week is not the end of the world, you know, it's dogs that, like she knows and that, like you know that the person is like supervising and isn't a lot of pushy behavior, and it's dogs that you know we feel safe with. I'm totally fine with that. Um, when I was back in my house at I'm from Orlando, when I was there, we would have social time with the dogs. Like all the dogs would go out into the yard, but it's very like I'm basically a lifeguard, right, I'm standing here making sure that you know this dog dog isn't being too pushy, this dog isn't lingering into another dog's space for too long. Yeah, I'm advocating for all the dogs so they don't think that it's their job to control the situation. Okay, so I'm fine with that, as long as it's that sort of setup. What we want to avoid is, like you know the dog, the doggy, the parks, because you don't know those people, you don't know dogs.
Speaker 2I know, and it's not necessarily her, it's like the other people yeah you know I think she has a hard time too, like knowing when she needs to stop, like I think she's smart but a little immature maybe. Okay, uh, like a little slow in that that area, because she's still really young, right?
Speaker 1yeah, I mean, I guess I don't know.
Speaker 2She's almost two, but I don't know what. Does she know that by now?
Speaker 1I don't know, but yeah she does seem a little bit, yeah, and have you like taught her how to interact with other dogs, like, have you been in any situations where you're actually teaching her so, like, for example, I keep dogs new dogs that I'm integrating with other dogs on leash. So let's say they're snipping too long or they put a paw on the back of another dog, I can pull them away with the leash or give them a pop on the prong collar to be like, hey, this isn't, that's enough. Yeah, proper manners, right, I do that yeah, perfect.
Speaker 2Yeah, especially when we're, because there's millions of dogs or so many dogs here in san diego, so our, in our neighborhood, is really dog friendly. But I'm super aware of that because I don't want her to be that or us to be that, yeah. So, yes, I do use the call or the. Yeah, I do a little leash pop if I need to or redirect her if I can okay, cool.
Speaker 1Um, let's see, is she food motivated at all?
Speaker 2so not yes, and not really like she's not a, I'm ready to eat at five. If I forgot to eat, feed her, she wouldn't even do anything. So it's like I, I I take treats with me in a little fanny pack anytime we go anywhere. Just because I, she'll do it, but she definitely. If it's some dog, you know that she gets focused on. She does not care about any treat that I have, even if it's high reward. Okay.
Speaker 1Okay, so in that case you're working with, like dog trainers call it competing motivators. So what's more motivating to her? Your reward or the other dog?
Speaker 2the dog, yeah for my dog.
Speaker 1She loves chasing squirrels, right? She does not care about the piece of chicken that I have, right you know whatever expensive freeze-dried right that I have, like she does not care about that.
E-Collar Training Approach Explained
Speaker 1The thing that's more rewarding to her is going to be chasing that squirrel right, and that's where things like negative reinforcement, like the leash pressure or e-collar comes into place, because basically, if greeting another dog is a nine out of ten on things that your dog wants to do, right, you have to have a 10 out of 10 reward or a 10 out of 10 like punisher to get that dog to not follow through with that behavior, right. So the e-caller is basically your accountability and what we do is we teach the e-caller to default mean when you feel this sensation, come back to me, I will pay you. So when we talk about conditioning the e-collar, that's essentially what we're doing. I would also consider re-teaching your leash pressure, because if she's putting a lot of pressure on the leash, we're basically teaching her that pressure on the leash means frustration.
Speaker 1Pressure on the leash means reactivity. So when I'm training my malinois for bite sports, I put pressure on the leash means activate, it means go, it means bark right, we can train it to be whatever we want for pets. We want pressure on the leash to mean pay attention to me. I'm going to tell you what to do. You have to follow through with it. So we do need to do some like reconditioning with your prong collar and your leash so that she's not able or doesn't want to put constant pressure on it.
Speaker 2Um the thing like is it negative right now? Like I'm, so the leash can be positive or to get the thing we want. Is it negative right now? And I cause she's just ignoring it. It's not necessarily negative.
Speaker 1It's just leash pressure to her equals like moving forward, or leash pressure equals like. It doesn't mean what you want it to mean, right. We want it to mean like our goal is that there's no pressure on the leash unless I'm trying to pull her out of that fixation, right? So, like what I typically do is I'll teach the dog a heel position and I'll teach it with food, a reward in position. I say when I say heel, you come over here, pay, heel you come over here, pay. We do that enough until the dog understands oh, heel means I come here, right. So I call you into heel, you go into heel. We're going for a nice little walk. You start to fixate on that dog. You come out of heel. I'm going to give you a pop on the leash, a prong. If we're using a slip lead it's going to be constant pressure, but I would not use a slip lead with a Husky mix, like I'd be like yeah, it was a not, I tried, but that's not gonna work very well.
Speaker 1Like no, so pop on the leash is hey, you're out of place, get back in position or listen to me. So if I pop, dog looks to me, heel, you go into heel good pay right, so we.
Speaker 2She knows heel uh-huh and well, kind of she'll do it like 85. So she does does the loop but like has to be a little bit in front of me, yep, and then so. And she knows, if I do like a certain, I usually do a lot of noise. She reacts to noises a lot. I try not to talk too much just because, but anyway she will react to noises a lot. So I'll you know, joe or whatever, and she'll come around, but then she is right back to. I gotta be here and I gotta figure out what's you know where I was or what's next in front of me. So we have a little bit of it, but it's not there.
Speaker 1So she can come into the position, but then she's right back.
Speaker 2Yeah, okay, and so then she's pulling and I'm like I don't, I want my shoulders, you know.
Speaker 1So like we got to figure this, out.
Speaker 2Yeah, I think you should do, e-caller, I know, but how do I? Even so, I got it and I looked at a couple of videos.
Speaker 2I just got it. So right now what I'm doing is just putting it on her occasionally. So I don't use any the thing yet, but I just put it on her occasionally. So I don't use any the thing yet, but I just put it on her in the house or like when we're playing a game, something fun. So I'm trying to make it not just a walk because she's not super. I say a walk, she doesn't. Even she doesn't. I don't know if she doesn't know what it means yet or she's just not.
Speaker 1It's like whatever for her and she loves to be outside.
Speaker 2But yeah, so I'm trying to like associate with good things. So like, well, I'll play like the find it game or whatever. Yeah, but I don't know like. So I read you should probably put it on them for a week or two before using it. Yeah and then. But I guess I need to probably find a video. But I was going to ask you too, because I'm guessing you know, but what?
Speaker 2do I? How do I do I? Test it on her first to see, like, throw a treat, do it, or I guess I don't even know how to start.
Speaker 1Yeah, so we're basically going to load it like how we would load our marker words or our clickers. So first we'll find our working level, which is the lowest level that she feels it at?
Speaker 2Yeah, does she have like super thick hair? Lowest level that she feels it at yeah, does she have like super thick hair? She's like, uh, not like a husky, not that she doesn't look much, she barely she kind of looks like a husky, but not not that kind of hair.
Speaker 1Okay do you have her there with you? Yeah, you want to see her find her.
Speaker 2Well, there she is, hey, rockies she looks like a shepherd kind of. Also I thought she had like greyhound or something. She's long and lean, um, but uh, oh, yeah, I see that yeah, the shepherd. A lot of people do say husky too, but yeah, she doesn't have like super thick, okay, cool perfect, huge.
Speaker 1Yeah, you definitely need to do e color you're gonna yeah, she's like 50 pounds.
Speaker 2I thought she was gonna be 30, but you know that happened.
Speaker 1So yeah, the rescues okay, we can also do a private lesson as well that's what you're open to that?
Speaker 2yeah, I was thinking that would be good because we can talk about it, but I need to do it.
Speaker 1Yeah, you know okay, so I'll walk you through what we would do, but I would say, um, maybe wait for me until you start the conditioning process.
Speaker 1It will be a lot easier for me to like exactly show you how we find the working level and that sort of stuff, um, but essentially what we do, what I'll have you do this next week, is just put the e-collar on in the morning, rotate it halfway through the day, take it off at night. It's just her outfit for now. Okay, so it's just something that you put on during the day, don't touch the remote, don't do anything. Yeah, don't even have to turn it on all day, yep, all day. We just want to rotate it so it's not sitting on the same spot every day.
Speaker 1Some dogs get hot spots. Yeah, um, I don't think she will. She has pretty short fur, so I don't think you have to worry about that too much. It should be tight enough so that it's not sliding around. If you find that it's sliding to the front because I want you to put it right on the front side, so it's not sitting on her trachea but off to the side there and if you see that it's starting to slide down, we want to make sure that it's tight, the reason being, if it's's too loose, our numbers are going to be all over the place, right, sometimes she's going to really feel it and sometimes she's gonna ignore the sensation.
Speaker 2But so, really quick, I have it on her now. I do think it does slide a little, but it so she has a really thin neck. So it's like I feel like maybe when she walked I guess I need to tighten it one more, but it feels like I can't fit it fairly, anything in there, yeah, so I'm like I can't tell when I see you. You can, I'll just put it what it is now.
Speaker 1We'll also send you a link to order a bungee strap.
Speaker 2I have that oh you do have the bungee With the clip. Yeah, here I guess I can show you.
Speaker 1Yeah, I guess I can show you. Yeah, um, I think so. Right, um, let's see, it has a little clip there. Oh sorry, does it have?
Speaker 2like the stretchy things in it. Oh no, I guess, right, I guess I don't know what that is, but I yeah.
Speaker 1So they make those collars, only they have like a little band that's like stretchy, and I really like that for e-collars because it moves with the dog and then you don't have to worry about it being too tight sometimes and okay, sometimes so I'll send you the link to that. Um. You can just order it through e-collar tech as well, and I can also just like ship you one directly, um, but I really, even though she doesn't wear, I don't make her wear a collar in the house.
Speaker 2Is that naughty? No, my daughter all the time okay, but we want to still do it regardless of that we just want to get her used to wearing it.
Speaker 1We don't want it to become like oh you only have to listen to me when I put this thing on you, okay, okay, because dogs are smart and they become e-collar wise. So then let's say, we're out on a walk and our e-collar is dead and you don't have it on. We don't want her to be horrible because she's like oh, I don't have the e-collar on right, like we just want it to be a normal part of what she wears.
Speaker 1Okay, it shouldn't just be like oh, I get corrected when this thing is on right like part of her routine, okay, so I'll have you do that for like the next week on in the morning, off at night, don't make a big deal about it Whenever you put it on, just you know casual about it, right. And then to find her working level, we're going to start at a two and dial up like one at a time on the e-caller, so it goes from zero to 100. Right, the mini educator is very, very, very gentle, so I don't want you to get too hung up on the levels. I find that people will be like, oh my gosh, I'm at a 20, like I feel like that's so high.
Speaker 1Every e-caller is different and it's called the mini educator because it is so gentle and that's why I like it so much is because you can really find like the perfect level for the dog, okay, whereas e-callers like garments. There's big jumps, right. There's only 10 levels, so you go from a 1 to a 2 and that's the equivalent of going from a 10 to a 20 on an e-caller tech. So, okay, we'll start off inside with her on leash, no commands, no talking in, like the living room or wherever. You're just going to stand there, we're going to press, we're going to dial it to two tap. Tap on our e-collar, on the stem, not on the vibrate. Okay, what we're looking for is some sort of indication that she feels it. So it's usually like or an ear, yeah, or they'll be like what?
Speaker 2was that so?
Speaker 1that tells me okay, this is the level that she feels it at. So what normally happens whenever we're doing that is, let's say, we get that reaction at a 12. She's like what I'm gonna have you do is dial all the way back down and start again, because it's such a foreign sensation that usually the dogs feel it at a higher level the first time and then, once they've felt the sensation, they're more sensitive to it the second time. A lot of owners make the mistake of conditioning at too high of a level, whereas we just want it just enough so that the dog feels it. The e-collar tech is a blunt stem, so it's not like zapping them, it's just have you felt it.
Speaker 2Yeah, I did. I mean it's like a, yeah, it's like a 10, I have a 10 machine. It's like the same sort of thing, yeah.
Speaker 1So most dogs most are usually between like eight and 15 for their working level. Some dogs I did a call with a lab and the lab was at like a 32 like wow it's like, just like whatever yeah, so dogs that are usually okay putting a ton of pressure on the leash are typically going to be at higher levels. On the e-caller yeah, because they're just not as sensitive what's the um?
Speaker 2there's three things, right. And what's remind me of the s?
Speaker 1and so the t is the tap you're tapping on, the s look at the screen and tell me what it looks like it's the mini. Go ahead and turn it on. Oh uh, I gotta do the thing right, yeah, it's cute.
Speaker 2Uh, let me see, I gotta do this. I think give me a second. Do I do that or do? I don't even know how to turn it on.
Speaker 1Hold on so press and hold the large button on the back for about three seconds and it should light up.
Speaker 2Yeah, the okay, does that help? What am I doing now? Can you see it says 1d and then it says 6 and then C. Right?
Speaker 1now Is there an M and a C on both sides of the number.
Speaker 2No, I think I turned that off based on whoever I watched. But there's an M and C on the back.
Speaker 1Is there a C on the front?
Speaker 2Yeah, okay, perfect.
Speaker 1So you have it set up right. So your red button is going to be a boost. Yeah, it's going to be a plus five. That's just when you need a little extra juice, but we're not going to use that whenever we're in the conditioning phase of right e-collar, you're going to be using your pointer finger, so if you're holding it, your thumb is going to be the vibrate button, which I don't really like to use. Is that the t then?
Speaker 1yes, so if you tap or tone. You can also set it up to beep. Some trainers do that. I personally don't, not because I'm like against tone. Um, I just find I just want to keep it as simple as possible. We're just going to use our pointer finger, okay, so whenever you're finding the level, it's two dial up, tap, tap, dial up, tap, tap. Oh, each dial, yep, and we're just looking for some sort of response from her. Okay, so let's say she feels it at a 12. You're going to dial back down, you're going to start again.
Speaker 1This time she feels that at an eight Great, that's going to be our working level forward. So then we're going to essentially classically condition that sensation because she has no idea what it means. Right, it's very foreign to dogs. They're like what the heck is it?
Speaker 2right, it's not.
Speaker 1Yeah, right, yeah so I would suggest, whenever we're in the process of conditioning, to not feed her as much, so that we have a little more food motivation in our training session. So maybe take like a cup of food and set it off to the side, and then we can mix that food with like a freeze, dried raw or something that is more high value that she likes. So then it becomes you're like yeah, that's, we'll try. So then then she eats raw.
Speaker 2She like literally has all the best things and she's still like whatever but should I? Not treat her as much?
Speaker 1uh, are you giving her lots of treats?
Speaker 2well, when we go on walks I still try to reward when she looks at me and I don't even know, should I not be doing that as much? Sorry I'm jumping here, but so I say you know Murphy, and she'll look at me, so I treat her.
Speaker 1But is it actually rewarding to her, or is she just kind of taking it? Well, I mean, she wouldn't say Is she just through the motions because she's like, oh yeah, this is what I'm supposed to do, or does she actually get excited to take food from you?
Building Value and Becoming More Relevant
Speaker 2Maybe both. Okay, yeah, so sorry, but what were you saying? You're getting it. I should do less of what so that we can use that as a reward?
Speaker 1Um, are you feeding her raw? Yeah, what kind of raw. Oh see, raw, and it's like the raw patties. Oh yeah, okay, nice a mix of stuff, yeah yeah, I would say what kind of treats are using anything that's like single ingredients, so northwest naturals or um terabytes or akana, okay you. You don't have to feel guilty.
Speaker 2Well, like every time I go so right up the street. It's called how holistic, so they're like the local and have all the good stuff. But they always are like well, they're, they might be bad soon. So I'm always like I mean I don't know if she could get any better with all this stuff she gets. So I'm always like, okay, you guys anyway you're fine.
Speaker 1Um, it doesn't really matter. I would say just like if you wanted to really be like super dog trainery, you could just use her raw and put a glove on and tap, tap, pay, tap, tap pay with her, just like regular meals. Personally, I wouldn't do that, because I just don't want to train with raw. I think it's gross. I really like like a open farm freeze, dried raw, because the pieces are like big, they're limited ingredient.
Speaker 2Oh yeah, we used to like that. Yeah, so, but what's the goal I'm trying to give her? Yeah.
Speaker 1Is that she feels the sensation yeah, it's paired with come back to me and get paid Okay. And it's paired with come back to me and get paid Okay. So that's kind of like the first step of conditioning is it's a good thing. Yeah, e-caller goes on, you get paid. E-caller goes on, you get paid. Just like when we say yes and pay, yes and pay. Same concept, only new tool, new language.
Speaker 2So when I first do it, and I still want to meet, if that's good at, but it when I'm first doing it. Um, is it every time I move up or it's the first time I see her?
Speaker 1nope so this is after we found her. Oh, okay, okay, yeah, so let's say we found her working level at an eight.
Speaker 2We're gonna stick to that, okay, yep so, but I need to find a tree that she she is likes. Do you know what I'm saying? She's kind of like whatever about everything, maybe not cheese, maybe not cheese. So maybe that's the thing I'd bring, or something. I guess I'm trying to understand if that's what we're getting at.
Speaker 1Yes, it doesn't really matter, like, what the reward is. I just want to be relatively positive, and she's also going to be a lot more likely to take treats from you inside when there's no distractions. Yeah, we can also add some movement to our rewarding, right? So, tap, tap, I'm going to shuffle back. Yes, yeah, yeah, okay, like lots of energy to it. So she's like oh my gosh, this is fun, gosh, this is fun, exciting. Yeah, um, does she like like playing with a ball or tug or anything like that she likes?
Speaker 2tug. So we do that, and she occasionally likes a ball, or she'll ignore it, just the okay if you like throw a ball.
Speaker 1Does she like perk up at all, or is she just kind of like meh?
Speaker 2depends on the day. Okay, like today, it was a no.
Speaker 1I think two days ago she was excited about it okay, so over this next week I come back to your area on Tuesday so, depending on your ability, I can come back around that. I can come meet you around that time and I can cover all of this stuff. It's just just a little bit easier in person, right, um? But in the meantime, your homework is to put the color on during the day. Right? Also want you to practice playing with her. So if she likes tug, I want you to really play tug with her. Like, make it super fun. Okay, whenever we were playing with our dogs, super fun, okay, whenever we were playing with our dogs, we want to make sure that they win a lot, right, um? Especially, like, maybe insecure dogs, that sort of thing. It's also a good opportunity for us to build up our markers a little bit. So we, you know, if you have a tug here, we're gonna pull it back, she's gonna grab it, we'll play tug with her a little bit, oh, and she gets to take it.
Speaker 2Oh, my gosh, good job yeah, yeah, kind of prance around oh, my gosh, okay.
Speaker 1And then you're gonna move backwards so that she comes and brings the tug back to you. Right, if you move into her, she's gonna play keep away, she's gonna go into possession, right. So we want to move backwards, come here, come here, she's going to come up to you. You're going to play tug with her again when she pulls. Oh, we're going to let her win. She's like yay, I'm so big and strong, right, okay, so practice playing that game with her inside or in your yard in a familiar place. Okay, that's another thing that we can integrate into your training is like, instead of just constantly like correcting her heel.
Speaker 1Correcting her, like we can integrate into your training is like, instead of just constantly like correcting her heel correcting her like we can play with her in different environments so that you are much more relevant than that dog walking by or something you know, and that's the goal of everything that we do is, I do want to be the most relevant to my dog, but not in a way where it's like you have to listen to me because I said so.
Speaker 1It's like I'm so much fun, I'm like I am what's up anymore, and that's like when a conversation that I have with people who are going to like daycares and dog parks, it's like I'm not like super anti those things, but playing with a dog is really, really fun and it's hard to beat that. So if I'm trying to be that person, it's tough. It's tough to compete with like playing with other dogs, you know. So you can also look at like, hey, temporarily, while we're training or working through this, maybe not go to daycare as much. Or, you know, practice playing more or even hire like a walker. You know something like that. That's just a bit different. Yeah, we can get more value with you.
Speaker 1Okay, once we get more value with you, you might see that like she doesn't even enjoy those things as much because she likes engaging with you over anything. So like, if I take my dogs to a dog park, they look at me and they're like, what are we doing? I took them like there's a dog park, um, by us and it was late at night, nobody was there, so I was like I'll like, yeah, go run and be crazy. And like somebody pulled up and they like ran over and like put their dogs in the park and my dogs are like ew, who are these?
Speaker 2dogs.
Speaker 1It's time to go. Yeah, all right.
Speaker 1You know, but that's just kind of like how I've raised them. I've raised them. We do fun things together. We're the fun ones we play together, like I'm trying to be the most relevant. So that's another point to kind of like think about as you're moving forward. Um so, the tap tap pay will probably be for the first like three days. You'll do like two 10 to 15 minute sessions a day of just tap tap pay, pay, and basically what we're looking for is when I tap on the e-caller, you turn and start moving towards me. That's what I want. That's the response I want. Once I start getting that, okay, great, we can layer it over other things, okay.
Speaker 2I'm writing a note. I know you're going to send this, but, okay, now do you think this? So again, yes, my goal is for me to be more relevant and that we are engaged more, me and her. Will it help with the other things? Okay, obviously it's going to help with leash pressure or her pulling. It's not awful, but the morning walk is typically the worst, because she's ready to go whatever.
Speaker 2Yeah, um, and I don't know if I should be playing with her before. I don't have I mean, I have time, but I don't have all the time. You know what I mean yeah, um, and so sometimes I'm like should I be playing with her before we go on a walk, so that it's not as bad on my she's, you'll see her, and she's not as awful as I am. She's good sometimes, and then she's just not, so it's like not consistent. Um, where was I going with that, though? Oh, I just want to. So there's just a lot of things. She's sometimes reactive. She pulls on the leash Uh, I don't know if she needs to rest more, and I don't know how to do that, because she's like busy and I'm here, so I'm on a call and I'm, you know, I interrupt, I guess I don't know um um.
Speaker 1So I always recommend that people do create their dogs, but also it's not like the end-all be-all if you don't want to and she's settling fine outside of the crate. When I suggest people create that, or suggest people like do start creating their dog, is if their dog has any sort of like separation, anxiety is getting into things when you leave or really struggles to settle, but I don't know she's. What do do you? What do you think?
Crate Training and Settling Strategies
Speaker 2So when I leave she, I have cameras and she will like depends on the day, Sometimes she'll like moan for like three minutes to me I think. I know that's a little bit, but I'm like I'm okay with that. Yeah, um, I don't know if that's not okay, but it's, you know, she doesn't bark, she usually will settle. I don't know if that's not okay, but it's, you know, she doesn't bark, she usually will settle. I don't know that she sleeps much. I I I think she needs to sleep more in general. Okay, and then, um, what were the other things? Oh, she doesn't settle a lot, but I do think as we've gotten, as she's gotten older, she's gotten better at it. Okay, um, and then, oh, she doesn't. She's never been like a she. It's funny. Actually, just in the recent months she's like we'll take one of my shoes and like bring it into the living room when I'm gone, but she doesn't ever do anything. She's never been a dog that like chews or bites or does any of that. Yeah, do you consider that trait or crate worthy?
Speaker 1Um, I mean, it's really up to you. You might have a bit of a battle because she is older, you know, so it's going to be something that's like it's not going to be fun at first. I know you're really going to have to work through it. Um, personally, I wouldn't try to crate train her until I had her e-collar trained yeah, and that's what I was thinking maybe that we start there and see how yeah, especially if she's not like being destructive or has severe anxiety.
Speaker 1I would maybe put her like in the kitchen, you know like limit her space a little bit, but I just don't want her like pacing around, you know, like looking around for you being anxious, because that the more that she practices that state of mind, it's going to carry over into other things. How?
Speaker 2do people keep their dog in a kitchen if I don't have doors? Did you?
Speaker 1say you have gates, oh, but she will no those were for when she was a baby. Oh, okay. I mean they would need to be, I thought you meant you still use them. I do have them.
Speaker 2No, sorry, I don't use them. I use them when she was small, okay, and she definitely figured out how to get over those too.
Speaker 1Um, if you get up and leave the room, will she follow?
Speaker 2you Um. Most of the time, yes, so she definitely is a clingy dog.
Speaker 1Okay, yeah, then I would definitely recommend like crate training, but maybe don't start that We'll try Okay. What I do, suggest you do, is get a crate, put it in your house and feed her all her meals in the crate. Okay, yeah, is she. Does she like blankets? Does she like beds?
Speaker 2She, she. I have this like. So I got her a thing for the car you know to sit in and I brought it inside, cause now it's too small and she will have, like all these great beds, and that's the one it's like, so small she barely fits in it. That's the one she loves.
Speaker 1She would probably like a crate if she likes, like, oh, that's right.
Speaker 2Yeah. So when you come, um, can I? I have one that I think is probably too well. She should be able to stand up right, yes, and turn around, or yeah. So I think I probably need a bigger one. I just wasn't ready to get one, so I spent we've spent a lot of dollars on things, not not you're like whatever, but I just I'm trying to be mindful of some things, yeah. So I was like I don't want to get a crate if I don't think I'm going to do it or be.
Speaker 2you know I need to, I need to do it Right. So can we do the e-call or the training next, and then I'll go from there. Well, do you have a crate? Yeah, but I don't know. I think it's too small.
Speaker 1Well, what I was going to suggest is set the crate up and like, put the bed in there that she likes and then feed her meals in the crate and just leave it open.
Speaker 2And just leave it open, okay, so that she can go in there and know that it's safe, or?
Speaker 1whatever, and then see if she like goes and like puts herself in there. Or if you're ever giving her like a bone or a chew or anything, put it in there, like, make it so that, like, all good things happen in the crate. Um, some of my dogs are in like teeny tiny crates because they love, okay, like they love to like curl themselves up in a tiny little thing and I'm like, okay, you know, like bring it in and do it, okay, yeah, but if she doesn't do, if she gets the bone and goes somewhere else, that's fine, that's fine whatever yeah, don't force anything.
Speaker 1Okay, almost kind of playing hard to get with the crate of like, well, I don't, I don't, it's just there. You know, I don't care if you go in there or not, but I would put her food in there, like whenever you feed her meals. Just put them in the back of the crate and if she, like, is hesitant and she doesn't want to go in, two things will either happen she'll go right in and she'll be totally fine, it'll be not a big deal. She's hesitant, you put it in the back and she's going to look at you like she'll do that. What the heck is this? Just literally be super nonchalant. If she is hungry and wants to eat her meals, she will take the next steps into stepping into the crate and eating her food. I don't want you to like try to coax her or, you know, if you try too hard, it's like those you know, those little finger things where, like the harder that you try to pull them apart, the harder it is.
Speaker 1That's how crate training is. So the more like nonchalant and like chill we can be about it of like what, that your food's in there, you know like okay, you'll get your food, you're fine, don't make it a big deal, don't try to like come on. You know, you got this, you know, because, like, the more that you do that, the more she's gonna be like no, why are you trying to get me to go in?
Speaker 1Do it and do it and go, put it in there and go yeah, exactly. And so leave it in there for, you know, 20 minutes. If she doesn't go, the crate. And that will also be a good way to, like make her do something that she doesn't necessarily want to do.
Speaker 2Right, you're not making her do anything, but you're giving her the opportunity to do something that you know maybe she's a little bit hesitant of yeah, yeah, she is, because I tried it like two months back, but I was like this is probably too small and I didn't know where to go from there. She definitely looked and was like no, so I will try, though, and make it more inviting. Okay, so, try feeder. If not, try it again. Should I treat her less Again?
Speaker 1I take treats on every walk, so maybe just reserve your treats for like those that we're doing. Okay, you know, because also I don't really want you like rewarding this sounds bad, but like rewarding mediocre behavior.
Speaker 1Yeah, just the standard walk or whatever you're pulling and then you don't pull for like half a second, like is that really worthy of like me giving you a reward? I want the reward to be like hey, you really did a great job or you're really doing like things that I really want you to do, kind of like having a coach that's like a little bit tough with you you know, you're kind of like working to like earn their respect.
Speaker 1That's kind of what I want is like, hey, this can be really fun, but you got to give me something. Okay, meet me kind of halfway Okay.
Speaker 2Um, okay, let's see what else I had on the.
Speaker 1Oh, go ahead. Nope, before I forget yeah, don't start crate and e-collar on the same day. Okay, I'll probably just. Oh, well, you know.
Speaker 2I don't, I don't want you putting the e-caller on the same day.
Speaker 1Okay, I'll probably just oh well, you know, I don't. I don't want you putting the e-caller on and then all these new things like in the same day, cause then we're going to have like crate, which she doesn't really like associated with like putting the e-caller on. So maybe do like e-caller for like four days and then introduce the crate in the living room and feeding her in there.
Speaker 2Okay, e-caller for like four days and then introduce the crate in the living room and feeding her in there. Okay, let me just really quick. I go out of town on the, so next week you're back. You said yes, and then I go out of town on the 21st, so she's going to be with the trainer and her family and dogs for like 10 days or something. Okay, does that play into any of what we're doing? Because what I was thinking is I don't know if I want to start the e-collar. It'd probably be great, cause she's a trainer, right. But I was like I don't know her knowledge of it and do I want to start it and then have her do it? And then I come, you know what I mean. I wouldn't have her do it, right, do e-collar training, well, well, I don't even know. I haven't talked to her about it, but I was just trying to figure that out because I was like I just started putting it on murphy, but then I'm like wait I'm leaving in two weeks so that's okay.
Speaker 1I personally wouldn't have her do it but what should I?
Speaker 2but are we still on the path where you think we should meet next week, or should we meet when I come back, when this? Is what uh the 29th the 29th I'm in the wrong month, like I'll be off. I'm off the first, second and third, if that helps at all or if that's too far, I don't know. I guess I'm just trying to think if I'm gone for 10 days yeah, we can do it whenever you get back.
Speaker 2would it be better to do it then? Yeah, we can do that. Then, okay, you'll be in this area. Ish, yeah, um, how do I do that then? Okay, you'll be in this area. Ish, yeah, um, how do I do that?
Speaker 1I'll just like still put it on.
Speaker 2Yeah, yeah, I'll keep it on for her or do that, and then maybe I'll do the crate sometime next week. Yeah, uh, just to have it out. Yeah, okay, um, so the place work. Am I doing it wrong with what I just told you? So what happens is I have well, I don't know if you can see, but there's that little green thing yeah, so I say place, she goes there and she sits, and then she looks at me and then she like winds a little bit. So then I, I, she comes to me, and then I go okay and I treat her. When she goes back on it, wrong, wrong, she'll come. I literally it's like 30 minutes.
Speaker 1Every 12 seconds she gets up okay, you're training her to get up, so okay hang on, though I was putting.
Speaker 2So then I've been putting the collar on just a normal collar, okay, and then putting the end of the leash under, like my ottoman, so she can't come to me. Okay, is that better?
Speaker 1good, that's better okay, I'll be super real with you. I don't do duration place. Okay, I treat place almost like a fun little active training session. Okay, I would rather you either create her or just tether her without the place. Oh, okay, happens is it becomes this negative thing yeah, right like what you're experiencing right now, where she's like I hate this.
Speaker 1This is the worst, whereas how I treat place and I can, um, I think I have a few videos I can send you, but it's very active. It's like place they go to place, yes, yes, yes, means you get to. You know, come back to me. So I pay them. Place, they go to place. Good, they lay down Cause. Good means you stay there. I come to you and reward.
Speaker 1So it becomes this game of like we're practicing our marker words and our commands. It's. I don't typically make the dogs stay on place. I would rather you create or tether, um, and then place is like a positive, active thing where we can like do training right, more so like a mental exercise. Then, yeah, go and settle. This is kind of anti what you see online with a lot of trainers, but my issue was like when I was working with people, they were doing that and their dogs hated going to place, yeah, and their dog was constantly breaking it, and so the place became this thing where the dog is just breaking the command and I'm like, okay, this is doing the opposite of what you want it to do. Right, if you tether, you're not putting the dog into command, but you're still teaching her.
Speaker 2Are you a business card? I am.
Speaker 1You can follow me at the everyday trainer. I don't have a business card on me right now.
Speaker 2Sorry bro, Give me one more second.
Speaker 1And I hear this woman on this call, I'm like, oh my God.
Speaker 2I need to chat with her. What is it? And?
Speaker 1I hear this woman on this call. I'm like oh my gosh, I need to chat with her. What is?
Speaker 2it.
Speaker 1The T-H-E Everyday Trainer. Is that you? Yes, dang girl 117.
Speaker 2Celebrity right now. Oh my gosh, thank you. What was your name? I'm Josh.
Speaker 1Meg, meg, nice to meet you All right, perfect celebrity right now.
Speaker 2Oh my god, that's awesome.
Speaker 1I'm josh meg all right perfect I know um, yeah, so I would rather you tether, because then it still teaches her to settle, but you're not putting into her into a command so, but she will kind of whine, that's okay.
Speaker 2Am I just ignoring it? Yeah, yeah, she'll eventually settle, I hope okay.
Speaker 1So when she does settle, yeah good, and you're gonna walk over and you're gonna pay her, just drop, just draw some treats on the ground, okay I did that, but yeah, so we want to mark and reward her for being calm and chill so can I just tether her and let her whine, whatever.
Speaker 2then she sits down on a blanket or whatever. She does, pay her and then, but it might, she might get up, it might be a while until she gets to settling.
Speaker 1Yep, that's okay, we'll do it all over again, and then eventually she's going to learn oh, she comes over here when I'm quiet, okay, so I'm just going gonna go ahead and lay down and chill, yeah because she was like coming back and I'm like let's go, it's like a whole thing and I'm like this isn't working, I'm doing it wrong or she knows what to do, yeah, so I do it wrong I'm not saying that you can't like ever send her to place and hold her accountable there, but your leash means nothing, so there's no consequence to her breaking command right, because she's not sensitive to the leash at all, whereas some dogs, if I like let's say, the dog popped up and got off of place I could say no walk over there and give them a pop on the leash and they're like I'm so sorry, oh yeah, she's like whatever.
Speaker 1Yeah, yeah, until you have like another tool which is like your e-caller. You know you're not going to be able to hold her accountable to that, so don't put her in command like. If I ever am in this stage of training where I know that I can't hold the dog accountable to something, I'm not going to put them in that command because then I'm just ruining the command and I don't, I don't even, I don't need her to like do place, I just want her to be able to settle Right.
Speaker 1So let's just tether her. It's so much easier, okay.
Speaker 2Yeah, um, what time is it I have? Okay, so this is a. I know you're not a doctor, well, maybe are you. Um, so she has had a million issues. This could be because of daycare and what the two trainers I use recommended that. So that's how I started out that way, using daycare and dog parks. Why are they recommending that? Well, I think cause they thought she was high energy and busy. I know I well, I didn't know that, so I was like I had never had a dog.
Dealing with Luxating Patella
Speaker 2I always had dogs in my family did, but not my own Right, so this was my first. So first, so I was like I'm gonna get a trainer or two anyway. Uh, so she had a million things. We've been at the vet a lot. Um, now she has luxating patella. Okay, I don't know if you have any knowledge of it or thought.
Speaker 2So her back, like basically her back legs don't bend a lot, but her knee pops out right, it like pops out to the side. Okay, um, we have done imaging whatever, lots of things, and so they were like maybe she should do surgery. And I'm like I mean, she can't even sit down for six minutes. And they're like, oh, after she has to not do anything for two weeks and then just go potty for four weeks like nothing, and I'm like I don't. Anyway, I just wanted to see if you heard about it or it's like a grade two. Okay, since it started to happen, which was probably like two months ago, it's less and less. So it was every day. Now it's maybe every, so it's less, which is great. I'm thinking of just doing physical therapy to start.
Speaker 1Yeah, uh, uh, that's are very surgery happy. Yeah, I was like I personally would not. I would not do it. Um, I never. I just I see the outcomes of it and I don't really think that it helps that much. Like that's just in my experience of dogs who have had it oh, don't, no fetch, don't play fetch. That's just gonna like mess her up even more, like what's like throwing a ball, like running and then like pivoting. That's what we would.
Speaker 1So I would say play tug versus fetch, okay, um swimming yeah, and so I need to.
Speaker 2I was again gonna do this when I got back, cause we just found this out. We just saw the whoever doctor a week or two ago, um, and they said swimming and stuff. Cause I don't, I guess I don't. She's only been to the beach like twice, so I don't even know if she's into it, so I haven't done it myself.
Speaker 1Well, I don't know a lot, but there are places that have, like water, treadmills for dogs that have like water treadmills for dogs.
Speaker 2Oh yeah, it's just like it's a physical therapy place though, right, okay, yeah, I was just trying to think of strengthening it before we just go to that, and it's happening less, so I was like that's great. I guess the long-term is arthritis and pain.
Speaker 1Yes, um, I don't really want supplements. That you can do. You're already feeding her.
Speaker 2You're doing all of that. I have supplements, the supplements I got, whatever avoid, like her, wrestling with other dogs. Like, take care, I know um like it's yeah, that's just gonna cause it to pop in and out more or happen more frequently. Yeah, yeah, I gotta think about it all, but, yes, okay, you've seen other people, though, that have had it and did the surgery uh, I've had people who have done the surgery and then my partner's dogs has like patella as well.
Speaker 1But oh, like that's just personally my opinion, like we are not big surgery. People like yeah, I will do everything before we go to that does?
Speaker 2is that dog?
Speaker 1I mean, it happens we have to like pick him up to go into the van and we're careful with like playing fetch and like him running too much, but you tell if he's in?
Speaker 2like I feel like I can't tell when she's in pain, like I don't know because she's like whatever. Can you tell when that dog's in pain?
Speaker 1um, we can tell when he's in pain, when he doesn't want to like jump up on things you know, and then we do like a certain, do you give them? Anything. Um, I give them supplements. We actually just started these supplements. Oh, it's called pet matrix m-a-t-r-x.
Speaker 1I cannot speak directly on like how well they work I just started using them well, I'll just look it up, though, yeah yeah, but the I just did a podcast with the girl last week. You should listen to that, okay you yeah, um, but they're like peptides, so it's actually like it helps with, like, repair and recovery, okay something to do okay I also supplement my dogs with green-lipped muscles. It's just like a powder supplement.
Speaker 2Oh okay, what's the brand? I'm not sure, I don't know. It has like a powder supplement.
Speaker 1Oh, okay, what's the brand? I'm not sure, I don't know. It has like a green and black packaging.
Speaker 2I'll look it up. If you remember, it's fine. If not, I just want to make sure I don't buy crap. It's just like a single ingredient one. Oh okay, all right, oh okay, so a powder is fine.
Speaker 1Yeah, de dehydrated green-lipped muscles. Okay, that's good for, like, active tissues and collagen. Okay, but I wouldn't stress too much about that. Okay, I am like I'm kind of a vet hater. I get it, I get it I don't love mine. I think they're very surgery happy. I think they're very like I want to do it all, everything. Yeah, I just don't think it's necessary, I think dogs can live like really healthy lives.
Speaker 2Okay, I'm glad I asked. I mean, I know I'm I'm listening to my doctor too, but I'm like I just don't know that we need to do that, especially right now. She's so young and seems great, everything seems fine.
Speaker 1I just want to help her long term, if I can yeah, and maybe like, if your couch is tall, get like a step that she can like okay, you know things like that, like no jumping out of the car, or you know like I gotta do that, then okay okay, help her if I can.
Speaker 2Yeah, okay, all right. How do you feel, um? I mean, I just think there's a lot of work to do yeah, you're doing great.
Speaker 1I just don't have enough credit. Homework yeah, you got some homework to do yep practice. Practice that and then um, after we get off the call, do I have your number? I?
Speaker 2don't, I don't know, I don't. Did I put it in on the thing I don't think I do? Let's see.
Speaker 1Let me grab your number, okay.
Speaker 2Go ahead. Uh four oh two, two, oh two, five, seven. 402-202-5729 Molly and Murphy. Okay, so we will look at the first week in Jan yeah, so just let me know.
Speaker 1Whatever works for you, I'll send you over some things. I'll send you over you. Okay, I'll send you over some things. I'll send you over the bungee strap. I'll send you over the muscle supplement.
Speaker 2Um the pet matrix podcast some other video you were going to send, maybe on a place work.
Speaker 1Okay, yep, I'll go ahead.
Speaker 2In the meantime with her kind of of pulling. So treat her less on walks, right, do I need it like? I try to like turn and you know redirect, you know what I mean, but she's I would say for now, just do what you can.
Speaker 1Okay, you know like don't worry about everything being perfect. We'll basically create, like the communication systems that we need to actually set the tone. But for right now, just try not to get frustrated.
Speaker 2No, I mean, like I said it's not awful, I just am like I think she can be better. And I know that I can help that, so I need to learn All right, guys, I hope you have enjoyed this episode.
Concluding Thoughts and Next Steps
Speaker 1Got something good out of it. Just some housekeeping things. If you guys are up to date on the podcast, I'm going to be heading up into the San Francisco area here within the next week, so if you're interested in doing private lessons with me, that will be available on our website. We also have dates for our next virtual shadow program. So I'm wrapping up. Today is actually our last day of the virtual shadow program, which, like always, makes me so sad, but I'm very excited to see kind of where everybody takes off their dog training businesses. But if you'd like to, you know, sign up for that. Sign up for lessons with me. You can always check everything out at TheEverydayTrainercom. Thank you.