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The Everyday Trainer Podcast
The Everyday Trainer Podcast
Training Confidence, Sport Dogs, And Real Talk
Ever get told “be more fun” and think… how? We open the door to our training week—workshop takeaways, insecurity and breakthroughs, and the gritty details of turning vague advice into steps you can actually use. From pet behavior fixes to sport-dog precision, we trace how timing, markers, and body language turn chaos into clarity and why mastering the basics is the fastest way to level up.
We unpack the difference between obedience as a crutch and obedience as a skill, and we show how leash-led walking drills build calm focus without a single command. You’ll hear how we structure neutrality sessions—rewards only from you even with toys and food on the ground—and why that’s both a safety plan and impulse control in one. We talk handler energy too: pairing dog temperament with your style so training feels like give-and-take, not begging. Muffin’s story reveals the reality of emotion-first sessions, micro-sets of “boring” precision, and the reps it takes to make the dog choose you over the room.
Pack dynamics get real here—using stable dogs to teach manners, deliver fair corrections, and diffuse tension without dog parks. We also tackle confidence dips and the Dunning–Kruger curve when you train beside elite handlers. The fix isn’t a secret method; it’s community, standards, and repetition. Our facility has become the lab for freeshaping, sterile first reps, and workshops that blend fundamentals with business so new trainers can actually thrive.
If you want actionable drills, a clearer path from pet problems to sport-ready control, and a reminder that progress is built on simple things done well, you’ll feel at home. Share this with a trainer friend, subscribe for new episodes, and leave a review with one skill you plan to sharpen this week. Your next breakthrough might be one clean rep away.
Visit us on the website here to see what we've got going on and how you can join our pack of good dogs and owners.
Hello and welcome back to the Everyday Trainer Podcast. My name is Meg, and I am a dog trainer. Today is a bit of a catch-up episode. I haven't been on the past couple weeks, and I miss you guys. So we're gonna share some life updates and kind of talk to you about how I'm feeling about the dog training industry currently. You know the drill? Grab yourself a tasty drink and meet us back here. Sorry I've been a little MIA. I actually had another episode recorded, and I decided to record this one from Insider Facility and to give you guys a little update of where we're at. We just finished our training for trainers seminar. So I'll talk you guys, talk you guys. Clearly, I haven't done a podcast in a bit. Talk with you guys about how that went and how our training has been going. Toma's here with me.
SPEAKER_01:Right on. That'll be a fun episode.
SPEAKER_00:We're recording this from bed. So if you hear the the sheets rustling in the background, that's why. But okay, so we just finished our workshop. It went amazing. I believe we had 23 people signed up, and people came from all across the country, which is absolutely insane.
SPEAKER_01:Like the world, the world, the world.
SPEAKER_00:That's true.
SPEAKER_01:We had someone from Ireland.
SPEAKER_00:We had somebody from Ireland. Do we have anybody else from overseas?
SPEAKER_01:Um, I mean, within the country, quote unquote, but we had Alaska and Hawaii.
SPEAKER_00:We did. Um, Massachusetts was another really far one, and she drove. She drove like a crazy woman.
SPEAKER_01:No, I love it. We really had a lot of people.
SPEAKER_00:It would and it was such a good group of people. So if you guys don't know, Shane, Marie, and I put on a weekend workshop for dog trainers. And basically, we covered all of the fundamentals of dog training plus the business side of things. So it was really designed for new dog trainers or people who have been in the industry for a bit, maybe want to up their game to get really, really good at the basics. And that's kind of my take on dog training is we don't really need to overcomplicate things. We just need to get really good at our timing, our marker words, using our body language correctly, all of that sort of stuff. So Shane did a really good job of teaching all of the dogs training side of things, and then I covered the business stuff.
SPEAKER_01:Yeah, it was a very good You guys compliment each other very well.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah. I don't I don't think Shane would have wanted me to talk about dog training.
SPEAKER_01:That's fair. No, Shane's definitely very passionate. He loves it. You you can see it at the moment he's like dives into a subject, he's just like so hyped. And yeah, I mean, I think it was good that you guys had each like your own roles, and there isn't like I also like how precise he is.
SPEAKER_00:Like if I'm training trainers, that's how I want them to be. You know, if I'm hiring a trainer to represent my business, I want them to be solid. Like they need to know their markers and use them correctly and you know, know when to reward, know when to apply pressure, all of that sort of stuff. So Shane does a really good job of explaining that and breaking everything down. And he just he has like such a almost like scientific method of dog training, which is very different than I would say my upbringing in dog training.
SPEAKER_01:Yeah, but also like while like not even getting too like science-y about the stuff, you know, like all his not science-y, but like his methodology is very is very calculated in the way he does.
SPEAKER_00:And we break those steps down and we break behaviors down, like everything is broken down, which I really like, and I feel like that's why I like learning from Shane so much, you know. Like we we basically all train together twice a week. We see each other far too often. Far too often. It's me, Toma, Shane, Celine, and Saul and Kate. But Kate has been gone for a little bit because her dogs have been sick, so she's been taking care of them. But yeah.
SPEAKER_01:Yeah, that's our small training group.
SPEAKER_00:That's our small, that's our club.
SPEAKER_01:Yeah, our unofficial, official club.
SPEAKER_00:Our unofficial, official club. So I feel like I've learned a lot from Shane and how methodical he is and how much he breaks everything down. And I think that's different from how a lot of folks train. And I would say, especially in the past what, two months, we've worked with a lot of different people.
SPEAKER_01:For sure.
SPEAKER_00:I would say like every week we've worked with a different person, a different dog trainer.
SPEAKER_01:Yeah, like hosting a workshop and we're learning from them instead of just like training in our regular group. Um it's been good. I think in every context, we like do pick up a thing or two, but it also makes us like appreciate the group that we have on the regular.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah. And I kind of wanted to talk about this this episode a bit more, but just how that has affected my confidence in dog training. I would say prior to coming out here and learning everything that I know now, I was pretty confident in my dog training abilities. And then I got here and I'm surrounded by people that are far better than me and were working with other dog trainers. Like every single week or you know, month, we have somebody come out who is like an expert in what they do, and they're coaching us, and I just feel I feel like stupid. Like I feel like I don't know anything. And I feel like, what is this called? The Dunning Kruger effect.
unknown:Yeah.
SPEAKER_00:Where it's like you learn so much that you realize that you know absolutely nothing. Like that's that's how I feel in my dog training journey currently. And it's been kind of tough to deal with because obviously I've learned a lot because I've been doing this for so long. Right?
SPEAKER_02:For sure.
SPEAKER_00:And I haven't been doing anything that is out of my wheelhouse, you know. Like I've always been able to help the dogs and help the owners in front of me, but I haven't had this like methodical approach to like breaking down all of these steps. It's really just like forming a relationship. Like I would say mostly my training has been just relationship-based training, which is why I haven't done a lot of food, I would say. Like, I definitely use food in my training, but for the dogs that I had worked with previously, food was not necessarily like the end-all be-all. It was really like relationship issues as to why those dogs were struggling.
SPEAKER_01:Yeah, I mean, like your your background is you know, pet dogs and like behavior mod, and kind of that side of the dog training world. And more recently, we've been training with a lot of sport dog people. Um, and obviously in that context, like food is used for a lot more like precision in like shaping behavior or not behaviors, but uh positions.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah, and you guys know I hate obedience. Like I'm I'm doing obedience all the time.
SPEAKER_01:Yeah, she she truly is.
SPEAKER_00:I'm an obedience trainer now, but it's a very interesting thing to go to all of these workshops and seminars and listen to all these dog trainers. One, we're all kind of saying the same thing, and two, I feel like a lot of new dog trainers get in the habit of going to workshops and feeling like they don't know enough information. And I feel like that is only contributing to your insecurity to train the dogs in front of you, you know?
SPEAKER_01:For sure.
SPEAKER_00:Like, I feel that. And I've been training dogs for eight years now, and now we're going to all of these workshops, and I'm like, wow, I know nothing. And also I'm the worst handler here, and that's like a shitty feeling, and it's a shitty feeling to go. And every single person that I work with is like, you're you need to be more fun. Like, yeah, I know that I need to be more fun. So to hear that every single time we go to work with somebody else, I'm like, I know what the problem is. I don't need to go to any more workshops, right? Like, I don't need to go work with any more people. I understand that I am the issue in reaching my goals with my dog.
SPEAKER_01:But if anything, that's kind of a cool thing uh to be able to put yourself in the shoes of like your clients, right? Or you feel like you know less and you know someone's teaching you.
SPEAKER_00:It sucks. For sure. Just know that all of the people that we've worked with recently, I am the worst handler there because it's been very like sporty stuff, you know.
SPEAKER_01:But but I've even adapted, like, because obviously, like I do like my bite and eye, and we sprinkle some OB in there. And I've kind of steered away from just like telling people the mundane repetitive be more fun, you know, you need to be more engaging for your dog. Um and instead of just kind of giving that blanket statement that you always receive, I'm trying to like actually help people achieve that, you know, by by by giving them little tricks. Like breaking it down for them of like explaining how to be more fun. Like if you're not a very animated person, and maybe like your dexterity, or like you're not you're you're not gonna like provide clean misses for your dog, like chasing a tug. Well, at least do some like get it and create some movement that way. Yeah. And you see your dogs checking out.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah. And everything that I've done in dog training has been about slowing the dogs down and calming them down and waiting for calm. And I don't do a lot of talking. And now with Muffin, who I'm training as like a PSA dog, we'll quote, put that in quotes, because like we'll I mean a sport dog, we'll see, but she's just like the drive-est one that I've got right now, you know. So that's what we're doing with her. But now I have to do the opposite. Yeah, we're trying to build more experience. I have to like, yeah, I have to hype her up and I have to like push her around in our training sessions and get her barking at me, and I have to be super exaggerated in my facial expressions. And I'm naturally a very flat person, which works really well with behavioral mod dogs, right? Because with behavioral mod, it's like, okay, this dog is lunging at you and you have to not react. You know, this dog is barking at you when you walk past the crate and you have to like not flinch, and you know, like you're you suck at that.
SPEAKER_01:I'm basically a reactive dog.
SPEAKER_00:You are a reactive dog.
SPEAKER_01:I'm I'm super fast twitch, and definitely like I'm a lot better at hyping dogs up. And going back to when we were first in Florida, like, yeah, I had this drivey Mal, and you helped me so much just like get him to like a baseline level where I was able to like walk him around the block. Because like, cool, I had fancy OB, and you know, he would bite a decoy and whatnot, but I couldn't even take that dog around for a leisurely walk, you know, he was like just on crack. So obviously that is your realm of expertise, and yeah, now you have to kind of switch gears.
SPEAKER_00:It sucks. The sport dog I felt like I was really good at my job, and now I don't feel that way anymore.
SPEAKER_01:What's funny too is like you gotta hype the dog up, but then there also is a big component of still sprinkling and like at puppy stage some level of stability and like impulse control. So it's like be more fun, but then actually in this moment, slow down your movements and you know, reward position. So it's kind of an interesting balance.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah, it also plays into getting a dog that balances you out, you know, and this is something that I've just discovered, and why everybody around me was like, Don't take muffin. So if you don't know, muffin, I got her, she did not come from a breeder, she is my long-haired Mal, or like I guess she's a traverne. There, that's like a whole other thing. AKC is like, no, she's not a traverne because her parents are travers, but Malinois come in long coats. So Muffin is my long-coated Malinois, and I got her from kind of like a rescue situation. Basically, these people brought their dogs to get spayed into the vet, and one of the dogs was pregnant, had full-term puppies. The people of the vet's office didn't want to like euthanize the puppies. So they were adopted out to people who were bottle feeding them, and I got one of them, and one of my friends up north got the other one. So everybody who I know who is a professional in the dog industry was like, Don't get some backyard bred dog that you don't know the temperament, and that you know, you don't know is gonna be able to perform for a sport, essentially. And I was like, No, I really want her. I really wanted a traverne at the time, and so I got her, and luckily, like I did get very lucky in that she is she's a solid dog.
SPEAKER_01:Yeah, it's a total gamble. Like the advice was, you know, it made sense. It came from a place.
SPEAKER_00:Oh, it's the advice that I give people of like just get a well-bred dog, you know. And that's where that's coming from is the dogs are more predictable, they're bred for a specific temperament or they're bred for a specific purpose. And for me, because I am so flat, like Minka, for example, my first Malinois, she is also very flat. And so the two of us are just like two awkward noodles standing next to each other all the time. Like somebody posted a video of us training, and it's me and Minka just like standing next to each other, looking nervous. And I was like, oh my gosh. You know, so I love Minka so much, but is she the best sport dog for me? Probably not. If I were a different handler, I think Minka could be a really solid sport dog. But I just one didn't know what I was doing when I got her, and two, I have just now figured out how to make myself have a personality in training sessions and like build up drive and motivation for the like dogs with the dogs.
SPEAKER_01:Yeah. If you look at it like a scale of you know, zero to ten, ten being, you know, a super high energy. If you're a super high energy handler, you can get a dog that's on the scale lower end of the scale.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah, you could have like a flatter dog, a calmer dog, you know, because like you your personality is naturally going to like jack that dog up.
SPEAKER_01:Yeah, you know, and same thing, like for me, like my first like pet, like Walter, he's kind of lower drive, so I could hype him up more and I couldn't have to do it.
SPEAKER_00:Like, I would do I would do really well with Hawk.
SPEAKER_01:Yeah, for sure.
SPEAKER_00:You know, like I feel like I'm a way better fit for Hawk than you are, because for you guys, it's just like two reactive dogs.
SPEAKER_01:Like, I need to work so hard on like my self-control and be super calm and flat for the dog that has so much energy.
SPEAKER_00:You know what's funny is when we would go on the walks, especially in Florida, because we don't really walk as much with all of the dogs anymore. We're not like in a neighborhood setting, so it's a little bit different. But you, if there's like a noise, or even if we're literally out anywhere in public, if there's a noise, like Toma is like whipping his head around to like look.
SPEAKER_01:It's so bad.
SPEAKER_00:Like you're literally reactive.
SPEAKER_01:Turn around and look.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah, no, I would be like it would be like me and Toma standing next to each other talking to a client, and I'm like in the middle of a sentence, and there's like a noise, and Toma like reacts so just exaggerated, where he's like whipping his head around, and to the point where the people that I'm talking to like think that like something is coming after them, right? They're like what they like lose focus, and I'm like, do not do what Toma does, first of all. Like, do do not follow his lead.
SPEAKER_01:So then But that's literally Hawk. Yeah, you add the dog in the equation, right?
SPEAKER_00:Like everything that we do with Hawk in training is like don't look at the decoy. And every time Hawk just gets us a glance, the quickest little glance at like the decoy, and it's oh my gosh, it's not even like intentional anymore.
SPEAKER_01:It's just chances are I created that shit.
SPEAKER_00:It's just impulsive because Toma does the same thing, like any noise, he's like whipping his head around.
SPEAKER_01:It's I mean, like, let's say there's like a firework, I'll turn my head and then the dog turns his head right.
SPEAKER_00:But but yes, you like react to everything in the environment, guilty. So I would be really good with Hawk because I balance him out really nicely, you know, for sure. And like I am slow enough, whereas like you get frustrated with him and then he gets frustrated, and then the two of you are like frustrated, and he's like, ah, and you're like, it's just like bad. But I do feel like you get that type of dog, you know, that dog is meant for you because like you guys are gonna learn that lesson together.
SPEAKER_01:Yeah, I mean I feel like since coming to California, like obviously we've been training with you know some of the best trainers, and I've come a long way because of a lot of help that we've received coaching-wise. Um yeah, I I like uh an intense dog because like you that's kind of what you need for the sport, so I just gotta adapt as a handler.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah, so then there's me and Minka just like being weird next to each other. And if I know what I know now, I would have been able to, you know, get her hyped to work, but I just didn't really know anything. And if you're gonna get a sport dog, which has become very, very popular, the Malanois, the Dobermans, the Bull herders, all that she's German Shepherds, etc. Know what you're doing to some extent. And I kind of like I thought I did, you know. I had like an IGP club, I had all of this stuff, but I really had no idea what I was doing.
SPEAKER_01:Yeah, I think it boils down to find a a club first, and a club of like people that you actually will enjoy spending time with because you're gonna end up spending a lot of time with them because it takes a lot of time to build a sport dog. So find people that you align with like as far as like their training style and that you actually enjoy, you know, spending a couple hours to you know, several days a week with.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah. But back to Muffin, basically, everybody that we train with was like, do not get this dog, like just get a good, well-bred dog that you know is going to do the things that you want them to do. And I also think part of that was coming from knowing who I am as a handler, you know, like when I train train with Shane and I train with Oscar, it's like, Meg, you gotta be more fun. Like, you can't just like stand there and stare at your dog kind of thing. But I feel like Muffin is a nice in-between. I definitely do have to like gas her up to get her hyped to do a session with me. But she is very, she's like excited. She's excited to train. I just have to do things her way, and she's like a very weird particular dog. But what's super interesting, something that I've been thinking about recently, is like, for example, somebody like Shane or Oscar, like they are getting really good dogs, you know, and even Zeus, like Zeus is a really good dog, and Shane got super lucky with him. They almost kind of have it easy because their dogs, uh I'm not I'm not discrediting them, but like they set themselves up for success by the biggest thing.
SPEAKER_01:Oh, yeah, for sure.
SPEAKER_00:And that's how it should be. That's how it should be for sure. So they can skip steps in training and their dogs learn things quickly. Whereas what I'm discovering is with Muffin, what takes somebody like Shane or you or Celine two sessions to teach a behavior takes me three weeks. And I have to like trick Muffin into making her think that it's her idea and that this is like a fun session for her. So, like, for example, right now I'm teaching her to differentiate between place and a touch bowl. And that for her is boring and she does not like it. She does not like predictability, she does not like when it's boring. So I have to start our sessions with I get her barking. She loves to bark, right? She's like, she would be reactive if I didn't train her. She loves to bark, get her barking, play tug with her. And when I'm playing tug with her, I'm like fighting her. Like she's just this tiny little angry gremlin, is like, you know, and she loves it, right? Like I shove her and she's like and like bites at the ball. And like, that's how I have to get Muffin hyped, right? Is just like wrestle her and like that, that like personal play. And then I sprinkle in a little, a little boring. I go, okay, touch. She goes to touch. She's like, okay, okay, place, okay, touch. And then she's like, you know what? F this, I'm gonna go explore and run around the facility and grab this tug that's on the floor and grab this ball that's on the floor. And then I have to go, no, no, no, Muffin, come back over here. And then I have to get her barking again, play tug with her, fight with her, you know. So I get like three reps of the thing that I actually want to teach in between the stuff that Muffin wants to do. Whereas sessions with Hawk or sessions with Beretta, like you guys can work at the same thing for multiple reps, and the dogs are like so drivey that they stay engaged with you. Whereas Muffin is like, this isn't fun anymore. I'm gonna walk away from you. So, yes, I need to be more exciting, but also that's kind of the type of dog that Muffin is. But I've learned a lot from her. There's a lot to learn from a dog that you have to trick into teaching behaviors with, you know, for sure.
SPEAKER_01:I think at a certain extent, like we gotta all trick our dogs into you know making them do.
SPEAKER_00:No, but think about Hawk. Like, you can do something, you I can just think you can think about doing something, and Hawk will do it.
SPEAKER_01:He's like, I got to, yeah, yeah.
SPEAKER_00:Like it's annoying. Meanwhile, like how long did it take me to teach Muffin to turn on the bowl?
SPEAKER_01:No, for sure.
SPEAKER_00:I think literally, Toma, how long did it take?
SPEAKER_01:I don't know.
SPEAKER_00:Weeks two weeks, three weeks to get her to move her little back leggies on the bowl.
SPEAKER_01:You're right. If if you take out a decoy out of the equation in my training set, I could teach Hawk stuff very, very fast. When you add in the decoy, that's where I struggle. Versus, I feel like with Muffin, at a very young age, you're already incorporating um some decoy neutrality, and she does like very well like doing the regular obedience, whether or not there's a decoy in the picture or not. So that's where it may be a little bit easier for you, you know? In the long run, it'll maybe pay off.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah, I think so. But I think it's also just because of the number of reps that I have to get in. Like, think about it. We did a lot of neutrality with her at a very young age. So neutrality with Muffin is like basically I'll put toys and tugs on the ground, and I want her to engage with me. So I want her to take food from me, or I want her to play tug with me, or you know, whatever. I just want her to engage with me. And so our sessions kind of look like I would say mostly play, mostly play, and mostly getting her into the emotions that I want her in. And this is something that Oscar has done a very good job of teaching me is you need to stop focusing so much on like the behavior, especially for me, because I'm a little bit boring. And like if I am not super pumped, like Muffin doesn't want to do the things. So he's like, you need to focus on emotion first, you need to get her jacked up, you need to get her super hyped on this, and then you can worry about the precision and the stuff down the line.
SPEAKER_01:For sure, you know, so if you're too hard on your criteria right off the bat when the dog doesn't even enjoy it enough, they're gonna check out.
SPEAKER_00:So a lot of our training has been doing that, getting her just hyped to work with me. And this is also what we see with a lot of your clients, a lot of my clients. That's where a lot of people struggle, you know, and that's why I relate so much to the people who are like trying to be fun who aren't, you know, and we're just like, be fun. And I'm like, I get you.
SPEAKER_01:It's also very hard in a group setting. You're already a little bit nervous, you feel like everybody's watching you, all eyes are on you. And I know when you're alone and training, like you know, in your backyard, I see the videos that people post, like they're more animated, they're like, you know, in their comfort zone, and then they come to the facility and they're more nervous, and I can hardly even hear their markers, and I'm 10 feet away. Yes, yes, yes, yes, good job. Yeah, I'm like, Did you even mark? Yeah, yeah, I marked. Okay.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah. But I relate to that, and I also think that's coming from a place of like insecurity, like you don't really know if you're doing things correctly, so you're like, Oh, you know, like a little, a little quieter with it. At least that's just no for sure personally.
SPEAKER_01:I remember like not that long ago going to my first club and being super shy of people that were better than me and you know, coming out and like not feeling super comfy. And then even as far as like um in PSA, like the decoys, they really have to be expressive and like scream and stuff. It took me a while to like regardless, like I'm a pretty outgoing, chatty person, but in that context, it's like it took me a while to be comfortable, you know. You gotta be a clown when you decoy.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah. So I remember the first time I was at like a workshop for Minka, and I think she was like six months old, and I have always really struggled with obedience. Like, how old is Minka now? She's like four around there, some yeah, between four and five. So I've been doing this for a long time and I haven't been doing a very good job at it.
SPEAKER_01:But, anyways, I think the other thing with Minka is you were a little um you kind of got stuck in the luring phase and never like fading the lure. So she wasn't really like thinking on her own.
SPEAKER_00:Right. She's very good at luring. Yeah, she's very good. But I remember when she was six months old, and I'm like at this workshop with it was actually with Yori, and I had him on the podcast a while ago, which is so wild to think that that was over four years ago. But, anyways, I was in front of a big group of people, and I went up to this girl, and I was like, hey, I don't know what I'm doing as far as obedience goes. Like, I have no idea how to get a focused heel. I have no idea how to do any of these behaviors. I there wasn't nearly as much information online as there is now. There's so many people out there who have videos on this type of stuff. So there's, you know, tons of people to learn from. But I was just not in that world yet. I didn't know how to teach those behaviors. I show up, they're like, okay, well, show us what you've been doing. And it was the worst thing. I was bright red. I had no idea what I was doing. I didn't know what I was marking. I was just luring her, and they were like, You're so boring. That was like my first encounter of like, what are you doing? You're so boring. Of course, your dog doesn't want to work with you. And it stuck with me because going up in front of people is nerve wracking in the first place. And then for the advice to not be practical advice to be like, you, your personality is wrong.
SPEAKER_01:You need to be more fun.
SPEAKER_00:You need to be more fun, which goes against everything that I was doing with my. Pet clients, pet clients is like be slow and calm.
SPEAKER_01:I think it ties back into training with people that are nice and that you'll get along with because there definitely is also a certain level of I don't know how to word that, but some people, you know, are a little mean, you know.
SPEAKER_00:I think good dog trainers are also good at reading the person in front of them and being able to decide what that person needs. Just like how we look at the dogs, right? Somebody, any experienced dog trainer can look at Minka and go, okay, I know exactly what you need to work on. You need to work on emotion and you know, getting her up and getting her hyped to work. I think we need to look at the people as the same way.
SPEAKER_01:For sure. I mean, the people we train with, they're able to, you know, they know that I could handle it. They'll like scream at me a little bit. Hey, come on, get your shit together. And then like they'll be a little softer with you, right? And I think that helps.
SPEAKER_00:That's good, but that's how that should be. Because when people are like, you suck, I'm like, you know, and then shut down. And then you really don't want to do anything.
SPEAKER_01:No different than a dog, right? You overcorrect a dog, they shut down.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah. So I also think that is why I have been feeling rather insecure in training. Like, I know that I'm getting better, but I feel like every time, every time we work with somebody new, it's the same. And after so many times, like this last one was the worst. The last person that we worked with. And I'm not gonna like go on and like bash this person, but he was not very helpful in like instructing on what I needed to do. And I went in there with like, hey, I don't really know what I'm doing.
SPEAKER_01:Yeah, I liked your approach. You went up to the guy and you said, you know, you don't know much, like I need help. Um, but to begin with, like he hardly even addressed us like in the first place when we rolled up but said hi, so that set the tone, you know?
SPEAKER_00:Yeah, I felt like I was back at my old IGP club.
SPEAKER_01:Yeah, I think um, yeah, it boils down to finding good people, and it's not even about good dog trading, like in the first place.
SPEAKER_00:No, it's not. Just be a good one. And that's the thing, is like this guy was like such a good dog trainer, and everybody hyped him up. And I was like, I don't really want to go.
SPEAKER_01:Yeah, ever become like that either. Like, I think regardless if you're, you know, at a world, a national level, I don't even know, right?
SPEAKER_00:But it could um He just didn't seem like he wanted to be there. And you know, I we were even talking to Shane about this. Shane was like, I hope that I quit dog training before I get to that point. Before I get to the point where you're just like grumpy and you're acting like you don't even want to be there or help the person that's in front of you.
SPEAKER_01:Like too elite for these amateurs.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah, like scoff, you know? I'm like, oh my gosh. But I also feel like I'm a little uh we haven't really taken a break from training, which I feel like is very important.
SPEAKER_01:We've been we've been on a roll, like back to back to back. And it's been um, you know, I trialed recently, so we were training a lot for that, and then there's just like good decoys and trainers that have been in town, so we take advantage of every opportunity, and next thing you know, we maybe get a little burnout of all the sport dog training. Like, I think like even like myself, Shane, Celine, like we love, we like truly love it, and we're also like we could use a break, yeah.
SPEAKER_00:And then like last week we saw each other like every single day. I'm like, oh my gosh, this is crazy.
SPEAKER_01:Yeah, so no, we've been training a lot, and sometimes it's it's good to maybe take a step back.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah, and two, also, this is something that I've been thinking about and like kind of looking forward to, is I have an adventure board and train booked. That is my fulfillment, you know. And I think maybe in the future, when I'm in the place where I'm good at training muffin, you know, I'm good, like I have a focused heel and I'm not trying to like build a dog, but for the f past five, six years, I've been trying to build a dog unsuccessfully, you know? And so it's like take a toll. Yeah, it's not it's not motivating when you never win, you know? And like, God, the day when I get a focused heel, I mean, maybe it will be more fun for me, you know?
SPEAKER_01:And you can see a huge victory on its own, you know?
SPEAKER_00:Yeah, and I can do more fun things, but right now it's just like building this dog, and then we go and see somebody and they're like, Hey, you need to be more fun. And I'm like, Yeah, I know. I'm working on it. And then we I work on it, and then we go to somebody else and they're like, You need to be more fun, and I'm like, Okay, yeah, yeah, yeah. And then we like go back to somebody else and they're like, Hey, you need to be more fun, and I'm like, Yeah, I I know, guys, I know. So I'm very much looking forward to doing something else, something else, because it's kind of we're literally dogs, you know, yeah. At a certain point, like when you do something, when you do something so much and you never get rewarded, it's like wow, this sucks, you know.
SPEAKER_01:I failed my PDC three times.
SPEAKER_00:I know, but you like it's not like your training sucked. Hawk just is e-color wise and doesn't out, you know. I feel like that is that's different.
SPEAKER_01:I guess my whole point was to encourage you and to say that there is life at the end of the title. Someday you will find success.
SPEAKER_00:And then we're talking about like how old Muffin has to be to get her PDC, and it's a whole ass other year. I'm like, I have to do this shit for a whole year. I have to keep doing this for a whole year every day of my life. What do you mean?
SPEAKER_01:The funny thing too is it doesn't really stop. Like, okay, great, I got the PDC finally, very next day. All right, we're gonna start trading for the ones.
SPEAKER_02:Yeah.
SPEAKER_01:So I don't know. I guess that wasn't uh an encouraging train of thought.
SPEAKER_00:I don't know. I'm just feeling very, I've been feeling very insecure in my training, very discouraged. And I think part of that too is because we're around so many good people. Like this is literally the best place to be in if you want to grow, you know, and I always encourage people to go find somebody that is living the life that you want or is better than you at a skill and you need to go learn from them, and that's what we're doing. So I'm not I'm not trying to sound ungrateful at all because I'm right where I want to be, you know.
SPEAKER_01:And don't forget how far you've come because the truth is like muffin's looking pretty darn good.
SPEAKER_00:Like, no, muffin looks really good. She's pulling up, she looks really good, but how many, how many times a day do I train her?
SPEAKER_01:I don't know. Three.
SPEAKER_00:I train her three times a day, every single day.
SPEAKER_01:Yeah.
SPEAKER_00:I hope. I hope she looks good. Jesus. Like, oh my gosh. Uh but yeah, I I feel like I need to do this adventure board and train because with board and trains and with the pet dogs, I feel like that's where I really shine. I do very well with the pets.
SPEAKER_01:For sure. Like, like you said, uh, we have a couple boarding dogs right now, and you can see right away that I'm not as good with the pet dogs. Oh my gosh.
SPEAKER_00:So we had so we have this little boseron puppy that we're watching, Maeve. She's super cute, but she's kind of a brat. Uh she's what, four and a half months old? Yeah. Yeah. And I can say she's a brat because I think her mother would also say that she's a little bit of a brat. And we were kind of brushing her off. Like her mom was like, hey guys, uh, she's kind of like biting me. And we're like, Oh, it's just puppy, just like stop, you know. And then she's like, uh, she's really like dragging me down the street, and we're like, Don't don't teach her a heel yet. And then we got her, and it's like, okay, we need some rules on you. Yeah. But, anyways.
SPEAKER_01:No, she she's been, I've been talking to the owner, obviously, and she's been super happy that we get to see this side of the dog.
SPEAKER_00:Because in the lessons, like, you don't really see that. We just see like this soft little puppy who's like, no, she's not like shut down, but she's just like a little timid.
SPEAKER_01:You know, well, also, like, she's coming to me for sports. I'm like trying to build her up. And then it's like, actually, hey, you still gotta live with this dog?
SPEAKER_00:Yeah, actually, she cannot be biting you in the face or like jumping up on everybody that she sees and like nipping them. That's like her thing. She like jumped up and like bit my chin. And I was like, okay, we need to stop this behavior right now. But, anyways, we had her tied up to the pole, just like tethered, and I was doing a training session with Muffin, and that's kind of what we'll do, right? Is we'll tether the dogs and then work other dogs because a lot of dogs have FOMO and they like lose their absolute mind if you do anything that doesn't involve them, right? And so we tethered Maeve, and then I'm doing a training session with Muffin, and Maeve just goes into like a full-on bark and hold at the end of the leash where she's like, bah, bah, bah, bah, bah. And Toma walks over and is like, down, down. She does not have a duration down. I was like, Toma, that is not how we do pet training.
SPEAKER_01:Valid.
SPEAKER_00:Like, you cannot tell her to, like, oh my gosh.
SPEAKER_01:But you know, that's what I would do with my dog. I know.
SPEAKER_00:You did that earlier today, too.
SPEAKER_01:With what? Yeah, I I revert back to obedience instead of just correcting undesired behaviors in the pet world. And honestly, like, that applies to um the sport dog world too. You know, sometimes like you could let the dog break more and go towards biting the decoy and then correct him for that. But I'll, you know, where we've been doing like sense to place and I'll like uh lock the flexi so the dog doesn't even like reach failure. Yeah.
SPEAKER_00:Anyways, but that's why I'm such a hater of obedience because you don't really need obedience in pet. I would argue my hot take, my hot take is like, yeah, you can teach obedience in those like active training sessions. So our active training sessions are short, sweet, high energy. We're typically getting the dog working for food or getting them working for a ball or a tug or something. That is when we teach behaviors. By all means, do obedience in those sessions, but I do not love defaulting to obedience with behavioral mod dogs. I would much prefer doing things that slow the dog down, like our walking drills. You know, I love a you know, I love a good walking drill. Doing our walking drills. We did that with June today, the one who was whining in the background, who probably needs to do some more walking drills. And there's like a night and day difference from the beginning of our session to the end of our session. She's tuned in, she's slower, she's not being like whiny, nervy, you know, she's not like scanning the room, doing all of this sort of stuff.
SPEAKER_01:And just to be clear, like the walking drills, you're not holding the dog. I mean, you are, but you're not holding the dog accountable to a heel.
SPEAKER_00:I'm not saying heel and then walking, right?
SPEAKER_01:More so like the dog.
SPEAKER_00:You're just using the leash. It's like the dog gets a bit out in front, I walk backwards, leash pressure goes on. Leash pressure goes on, means move with the leash, come back to me. So then June comes back to me, she comes back into like the heel, we start walking again, she gets out in front, leash pressure. So the game is just focus on me, right?
SPEAKER_01:And you truly see like a level of like flow or like synchronicity like amongst the dog and the handler.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah.
SPEAKER_01:Um, without ever doing obedience.
SPEAKER_00:You don't even have to say anything. The dog becomes an ever have to talk to the dog in tune with you. And that's why I struggle so much with muffin and like building a dog up, is because you have to be like, yeah, good job, come on. Like you have to be almost kind of like exaggerated and like, wow, super, wow, amazing. Which is like the opposite of what I like to do.
SPEAKER_01:Yeah, like walking drills, like you don't even need to use food. Um, you can, but you don't have to. Yeah. And it's almost like this is so boring for the dog, but they it's good for them.
SPEAKER_00:It's so boring because it's like meditation. Yeah. And I feel like it's like trying to get, I don't even know an analogy for this, but it's like trying to force somebody to do something that they don't want to do, right? So, like in that moment when the dog is like checked out and isn't paying attention to you, they want to engage with everything else. They want to engage with the environment, they want to get that ball that's on the ground, they want to sniff the grass or walk over here, right? They don't want to come back to you. And so I feel like when we're like, come on, come over here. Yes, I got food, you know. No, Walter. He thought I was talking to him. He said, Come over there. Walter, lay down.
SPEAKER_01:Place.
SPEAKER_00:Down.
SPEAKER_01:Are you using obedience right now?
SPEAKER_00:Lay down.
SPEAKER_01:Not my dog not having obedience. Okay.
SPEAKER_00:He said, I don't listen to you. I don't know what you're talking about. Um, what were we saying? What was I saying?
SPEAKER_01:Uh you're explaining, like, you know, the dogs wanting to be interact with the everything but everything but you, right?
SPEAKER_00:And so I feel like it's very one-sided. Like I hate when I'm putting in more effort than the dog. So that's why I like the leash stuff, is because I'm not I'm not gonna put any effort in, right? Like you're not putting in any effort to be with me. So I'm gonna meet you where you're at, and I'm not gonna go like, oh my gosh, yay, good job. For like bare minimum bear minimum behavior. Yeah. So what is he doing? He's gonna Walter, place. Lay down.
SPEAKER_01:He's on like her van mattress, so the place is like he is a it's like it's a queen-sized bed.
SPEAKER_00:It's a queen-sized bed, but he his he scoots his feet and he would scoot while we're recording this podcast, it'd be like s the nails drag on the on the wooden floor or whatever.
SPEAKER_01:Yeah, so we put him on the mattress. Good boy. On a big place, but he was he was like glad shark you get just lay down.
SPEAKER_00:But, anyways, that's kind of how I feel with the pet dogs, is like a lot of times they are a little bit bratty, right? They've never been held accountable to anything, they've never been corrected before, they've never even felt leash pressure before. And then we're over here kind of like bribing them for affection and attention. And I would rather focus on building that relationship through just like kind of this follower game, right? Just follow my lead, right? Follow my lead to avoid the leash pressure. Leash pressure goes on, that means you're far away from me. Come back to me. Pressure goes off. Good stuff happens around me. And once I have a bit of attention and focus from the dog, then we can do more like fun, active stuff, and I can get the dog hyped and get them chasing food and all of that sort of stuff. But I don't know, it just feels a little icky in the beginning, you know? And it it even feels that way with Muffin sometimes. Like when we did a training session and there was a bunch of tugs and stuff on the ground, Muffin goes over to the tug, like leaves me. I'm over there, like doing an active training session with her, trying to heal her with food, and she's like, Yeah, whatever lady, and goes over and bites a tug and then is like chewing on the tug. And I'm like, Muffin, come on, come on, muffin, and like running away and throwing food at her, and she's like, I literally don't care. Like, I don't like that. I don't like that at all. Like, I don't I don't know. I feel like one, she kind of knows better, and two, why why am I why am I giving 90% and you're giving 10? Like you're given like two percent. I'm giving 98%. I like a I like a more even give and take with the dog.
SPEAKER_01:Yeah, but that's where you know, depending on the dog that you have, you can add in more correction You know, when the dog checks out.
SPEAKER_00:What do you mean?
SPEAKER_01:Like, I don't know that you could like necessarily like For me, if Hawk would go towards the sleeve, I would stim him pretty high for that, and he would engage back with me. Yeah. She may like shut down.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah, I don't think I could do that.
SPEAKER_01:So that's where, you know, going back to kind of like a more like a well.
SPEAKER_00:But I could still use a leash. Yeah, I could still like leash her back to me and be like, no you girl, you gotta come back. For sure. Like you can't just grab things on the ground.
SPEAKER_01:And I mean, let's not forget, she's also a puppy. So yeah, the leash for management would be great.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah.
SPEAKER_01:In some contexts, but yeah.
SPEAKER_00:But she's smart. No, she's good. She's a smart girl. She knows what she's she knows. She knows the rules of if there's things on the ground, we don't pick them up. And it's also a huge safety thing. So, like earlier when we're talking about working on neutrality with like balls, and you can even have like food on the ground, and the dog still only want like you want the dog to only take food from you and only take the reward from you. That is very real-world applicable, you know? Like we practice that because those balls on the ground, that's a reactive dog, right? Your reactive dog needs to be able to pay attention to you and play with you and engage with you, even when there's distractions, there's balls, there's other reactive dogs, there's people, right? So we can practice it in this training setting. And that's what I'm doing a lot with Muffin and how I work through her reactivity. I remember when we were doing the virtual shadow program and she was a little bit younger. I talked with my students about how she is a naturally reactive dog. And if I do not redirect her when we are out in public, she's gonna fixate, she's gonna lock on to people, and she's just gonna pop off at the end of the leash because it's very rewarding for her. Like she loves it. She loves to like bark at shit. For sure. You know, so if I let her continue to do that, it's gonna be a really hard thing to break down the line. So for Muffin, how I've worked through this is I've built up a game with me. And that game is taking food from me, right? Yes, pay, pay, pay, walk backwards, you know, down. She goes into a down, yes, you know, like making just fun training sessions with her, playing tug with her, and then I can take her out around those things, and she's still engaged with me because we've practiced it in this training environment, like in the facility with balls on the ground. And, you know, just because there's balls on the ground doesn't mean that you disengage with me to go and grab those. I'm not gonna let you do that. So when she does go to do that, I go, no, pop, pop, pop, just on like her flat collar, she comes back to me. Yes, we play, play, play, you know, and that's kind of the the game that we play and what we encourage a lot of our owners to do. And even if you've come to my group classes in San Diego, that's really what we do, is a big part of that is have you ever played with your dog? You know, have you ever taught your dog a yes marker? I show everybody how to get their dog engaged and focused on them, even when there's other dogs around us. You know, there's people we're walking around, we're talking to their owner, there's stuff going on. But the game of engagement with your owner is like one of the most valuable tools in dog training, especially if you have a behavioral dog and need to kind of like redirect their attention back on you.
SPEAKER_01:Yeah, I mean, at the end of the day, even you know, the top-level sport competitors, it's it's all just like mastery of the basics. So do you have a clear communication system with your dog, right? Bite the tug on the floor if I say get it, but if I say yes, even if there's a t a bigger tug on the floor that you really want, you're not allowed to bite it. So it's just clear communication, really. Um and I think like if you have no idea like what sport is, it kind of does look like this scary thing, right? We're like sending dogs to like bite a guy in a Michelin man suit. And at the end of the day, all it really is is like a lot of impulse control. Because it's not like the dogs are just like getting sent, you know, bite after bite after bite, it's a lot more um stability and rewarding in position and getting like a high level of obedience around like a huge distraction. And if you kind of take it back to like just a simple like bare bones, it's no different than you know your reactive dog barking at you know, even like you're just overly social friendly pet dog that wants to go see the other dog across the street, it's the same thing. There's a a trigger, there's something that the dog wants, and we actually just have to build like control around distractions.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah. Which is why I think this journey of training Muffin and also training Minka, because I've taken breaks with Minka here and there, but ultimately I want to do something with her. You know, I want to do something with her where I have a little more clarity and control because I didn't really build that up with her when she was younger. And I feel like it's kind of unfair for her to just kind of like stop, you know? Like she doesn't really need it, I would say, like the other dogs do, like Hawk does, like Muffin does, right? Like, if I don't do a training session with Muffin, like you heard her this morning. She's like, like spinning in her crate. I'm like, okay, I'm just gonna do a little training session, and then she settles in the crate and she's fine, you know. So like she needs it. Minka doesn't really need it, but I feel like the journey with Minka and Muffin has made me a better trainer with my pet dogs because of that level of control that's expected of a sport.
SPEAKER_01:Yeah. I think if I think about you know, Hawk and why I use so much obedience, is like because ultimately a good pet dog, you want them to be able to make good decisions on their own. And I would rely so heavily on obedience because he was unable to make good decisions initially. And I think what you've provided me with him is kind of letting him more free, but then holding him accountable for like let him make mistakes.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah, and then whereas prior you didn't even give him the option to make mistakes because you were just holding him in obedience.
SPEAKER_01:Yeah, I was like, he doesn't make good decisions, so I just you know, I put him in a focus heel or not a focus heel, but I put him in a down, right? Versus let him free, let him explore, and if he messes up, then there's a consequence.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah, and then he learns from that, and then he can make better decisions in the future.
SPEAKER_01:Yeah, and honestly, now I feel like very comfortable and like confident with him. Like I used to not trust him.
SPEAKER_00:We trust Hawk more than we trust Minka now.
SPEAKER_01:Yeah.
SPEAKER_00:You know, Minka doesn't make good decisions, but that's been kind of a learning curve for me is I definitely trust her too much.
SPEAKER_01:Yeah, I I was kind of more on the paranoid side with Hawk, and then um yeah, now I trust him more, and that's you know, thanks to you.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah. So now we have to flip. Minka needs more rules, Minka needs more obedience because she doesn't always make the best decisions. So we have to work through that. And it's Minka has definitely made me paranoid with dogs, and we kind of talked to our uh students this past weekend about that, about taking on aggressive dogs and the liabilities of all of that and having working dogs. I know everybody loves Slim, right? That's a lot of dogs, that's a lot of dog, that's a lot of dog.
SPEAKER_01:I know I couldn't handle that, and uh on on that kind of remark, a lot of working dog homes, like they just do sport and they go home. I think there's a lot of value in providing like letting your working dogs still be dogs and like letting them be pets. And Shane does a fantastic job of letting you know his three working dogs and his foster dogs like all you know loose in the house. And he's a good like he he also like doesn't leave his dogs in obedience, like he'll manage and correct, like if they you know get into whatever they you know would do. And yeah, that's that's like I like that. You know, let your dogs be dogs and like let them more free and you know, correct. So so that's like that's really the pet side of things applicable to working dogs, if that makes sense.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah, for sure. And that's how I think true behavioral mod happens, right? A lot of times our training, we get stuck in management when like even what I was explaining in our group call today of we have a reactive dog, right? When do we decide that we stop redirecting that dog with walking drills or about turns on our walk and just see if the dog is gonna go and be reactive, right? And if they choose to not be reactive, we can reward them, right? Because they've made the right decision so we can mark and reward that. And it's really tough. Just in my experience, most people we kind of stay in that management and that redirection, which is totally fine, I think. And you know, Shane kind of has a different opinion where he's like, Well, and in my eyes, like that dog isn't trained, and you're just in management. But for me, that management is part of our training, you know.
SPEAKER_01:Yeah, and I think in that regard, it's just setting the clear expectation with the owner. Like, some some owners have like unrealistic expectations of like their dog's at this level, and they want it to become like a coffee shop dog, and it's like you just have to have a real conversation of like this is how like this is where you are at with your dog, and there's certain things you can't and can't do.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah, for sure. Like a dog with behavioral issues or like a reactive dog. Yeah, like the the dog that we're aborting right now. That's something that the owner really struggles with. Is he is uh he is a pit bull, he's a little bit reactive, he's not aggressive, but he likes being reactive. He's a good boy, he's just he is a good boy, he's very he's very well trained, he knows his behaviors, he knows all of the things, he's been e-color conditioned, and his owner wants to take him to coffee shops, and then sometimes there's another dog there and he pops off, and we have to have that conversation with him it's not necessarily that you've like failed your training or your training is bad. We have to look at the dog that's in front of us and set them up for success.
SPEAKER_01:Maybe he's just not that dog.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah, maybe he's not the coffee shop dog. They have another dog who's a wonderful coffee shop dog. Yeah, you know, so knowing the dog that you have, and I've kind of learned that with Minka as well, and it's also kind of led me to the realization that I will always have a golden retriever uh if I have a Mal. Like I I always need that dog that I don't have to worry, you know. We went with Zoe, and Zoe's like Zoe's fantastic. It's always saying hi to everybody, like everybody loves Zoe. We never have to worry about her. Like a little kid came up to her today, and she was just great, you know.
SPEAKER_01:Zoe's like the dog that everybody thinks they want, or like I don't know, thinks that they're getting. Yeah, that's what that's like what everybody should own, you know, just an easy, happy, go-lucky dog that's never gonna, you know, do anything bad. You know, she doesn't.
SPEAKER_00:I didn't really train her, right? She just doesn't make bad decisions.
SPEAKER_01:Yeah, the worst thing she'll do is she'll, you know, eat something off the floor. She that's a typical golden thing.
SPEAKER_00:Will eat things. She ate like six cheese Danishes yesterday.
SPEAKER_02:Oh my gosh.
SPEAKER_00:That's the that's like the worst. But even uh Sowell brought that little golden puppy. Oh my goodness. Soul brought this bored and train that he has right now. It's what a three month old?
SPEAKER_01:Yeah.
SPEAKER_00:Three month old golden retriever puppy from like a good breeder, and it it's just a good boy.
SPEAKER_01:Yeah, no, it's crazy.
SPEAKER_00:He was like, I just did one rep with this dog and he already knows the behavior. I was like, yeah, that's on like a well-bred golden retriever. Yeah. I think we need to make golden retrievers more popular again. For sure. Everybody's getting boserons.
SPEAKER_01:Bosserons and Malinois and Hey, I mean, most bosurons are already a better option for most people than Malinois, I think. Um Malinois probably shouldn't be pets.
SPEAKER_00:No.
SPEAKER_01:Um, but yeah, it kind of like you going back to, you know, you you'll always have, you know, golden retrievers and like pairs of golden retrievers and like pairs of Malinois.
SPEAKER_00:Like, yeah, I like to have, well, first of all, I like to have multiple dogs because I use my dogs to help me train other dogs. Like, I like having a pack of dogs that are stable.
SPEAKER_01:It's a huge benefit to have dogs that you can pull out that are not reactive and that even help.
SPEAKER_00:I trust all of my dogs. All like my four girls are very social and they're social in different ways. So, like Zoe is the most neutral. She doesn't even acknowledge that other dogs are there. So she's really good with like the super reactive dogs, you know, because she will never even like look in their direction. And that is very odd for a lot of reactive dogs, right? They're like, I'm barking at you, and you're not even you are not even looking over in this direction. Uh, so Zoe's good for that. And then Lucy is kind of a bitch, but she gives fair corrections.
SPEAKER_01:Yeah, she corrects very fairly.
SPEAKER_00:So if a dog needs to be corrected for, let's say, some social behavior, so like I'm gonna put or Lucy did correct Maeve yesterday.
SPEAKER_02:Yeah.
SPEAKER_00:Remember? So we had Maeve tied up, and or we had Maeve um on a slip lead, and I was walking her around the facility while my dogs were out, and what Maeve does is she is so forceful with getting in other dog spaces and she doesn't leave. So what I'm looking for from a social dog is that they can move into another dog's space, but then they leave. Move into his dog's space and leave. And Maeve doesn't leave and she'll like put her paw on dog's backs. So it's funny. I was walking Maeve around the facility with all of my dogs out just to kind of like work on neutrality. And she starts like being annoying with the dogs, and I was like, oh, I need to get a I need a prom caller, like I need to correct her for this. And right as I said that, like Lucy was like, because Maeve like put her paw on Lucy's back, and I was like, oh well, Lucy did my job, you know. She had we have like the same timing at this point, you know. So Lucy is that dog for me. Like she's very fair, she doesn't take her corrections too far, she doesn't shut down, she doesn't take it personally, you know. So I have Lucy to teach other dogs like doggy manners, and I have Minka, who is she gets in between uh she's like a mediator, like two dogs squaring up, she'll get in the middle of the room. She'll be like, look at me being submissive, you know. She'll be like, guys, guys. Like she's always trying to like break up conflict, you know. And she will like two dogs will be like posturing at each other, and Minka will like weasel between them and like it just diffuses, yeah. And then the dog's like, she's being weird, and then they just like move out of the way. So Minka's really good for that, like diffusing conflict. And Muffin doesn't give a fuck, like, she's not scared of anybody of any dogs.
SPEAKER_01:Well, it's really funny, like Walter is kind of an asshole.
SPEAKER_00:Um Walter can't play, like, I've never seen Walter play, and he's playing like and he plays with like him and Muffin play because a lot of the dogs are scared of Walter, except for Muffin. Muffin's the only one who's like not scared, and she'll like and like run away from him, you know, and like they play together.
SPEAKER_01:They play like really nice, actually.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah, so I feel like Muffin is good for that. Like, she's just this tiny little spitfire who is not phased by dogs trying to like be intimidating, you know. So she kind of like squashes that in dogs, and I really like that. And she is also she's like annoyingly submissive, but I would rather have annoyingly submissive than like posturing at every dog, you know.
SPEAKER_01:Yep, no, for sure.
SPEAKER_00:So I have a really good group of dogs, and I'll always have a group that is like stable with each other. I think I've talked about this on previous episodes, but that's definitely one of the most important things for me is that my dogs get along with each other and they're social and I can use them as like a peck to help me train new dogs coming in. You know?
SPEAKER_01:For sure. I think it's very important and it it oh we were talking about that the other day. Like, how do you kind of how do you build a social dog? And I think it helps that you have like several, so at an early age you're incorporating like muffin, your new puppy, into a pack that's already like stable, stable, and you know these dogs versus like taking a random gamble and just throwing your puppy in a dog park.
SPEAKER_00:Oh, I would never, I would never like let my dog socialize with dogs that I don't know and don't have control over.
SPEAKER_02:Yeah.
SPEAKER_00:And that's the other thing too, I feel like has been very helpful is my dogs know that I have control over all of the dogs that we introduce them to. Yeah, yeah. Like they know that we're dog trainers and we'll handle dogs. And they also know, like, let's say when we're out in public, they know when a dog comes up that I don't have control over, and they're like, fuck. Yeah, like that happened uh when we were in Northern California. Remember that Akita came up to Lucy?
SPEAKER_01:Yep.
SPEAKER_00:You know? So it's very interesting, but I feel like it's just through experience having all of those dogs in my backyard and having my dogs out, and they know the rules, they they know how to socialize. That's like my big thing is teaching dogs doggy manners, because yeah, sure, we can solve reactivity through this step-by-step procedure and methodology, and like, yeah, for sure. But at the end of the day, your dog is reactive because they don't have that many experiences around other dogs, or if they do have experiences around other dogs, it's either over excitement or I mean you you let those experiences happen.
SPEAKER_01:Like Walter's not great with other dogs, and that's I mean, there's a part of it that's like maybe his genetics and the breed and whatever, but at the end of the day, I let you let it snowball. Yes, yeah, I I created what he is now, you know. Yeah. Um watching how you integrate dogs in a pack and like what you correct. Um I won't be making those mistakes with the next dogs for sure. Because the the thing with Walter is he's uh I don't know, dominant enough that for the most part, like you know, fights don't happen or whatever.
SPEAKER_00:But mo every dog is submissive to Walter. Yeah, but I should have the dog that's not submissive to Walter is when we have problems.
SPEAKER_01:Then it's an explosion, right? But because he doesn't um take corrections at all. But I should have corrected signs like way, way, way sooner, you know? Yeah. So I let that escalate.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah, he's literally the schoolyard bully because no one's like put him in his place.
SPEAKER_01:Yeah, and that's where you know, obedience and all that.
SPEAKER_00:That's that's cool and all he's obedient, he knows his obedience, but he is a bully.
SPEAKER_01:I I I didn't correct behaviors that I should have earlier on.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah. That's okay. He gets along with Muffin now.
SPEAKER_01:Yeah, that's that's yeah.
SPEAKER_00:That's good. His little sister, they love each other. And Muffin just like uh runs circles around him.
SPEAKER_01:Yeah, he's lazy. He's lazy.
SPEAKER_00:Muffin's like, eh, eh, eh, just like they end up just um I don't know.
SPEAKER_01:Walter kind of lays on the floor, then Muffin comes and tags him, and whatever.
SPEAKER_00:They're funny. We got anything else to add? Any other updates, fun and exciting things? Um, we've really just been vibing at the facility.
SPEAKER_01:Uh, I guess having the facility's been great.
SPEAKER_00:Having the facility has been great. I feel like that has also been a huge uh uh help in progressing my training in particular, because I don't know if you guys have tried to train a reactive dog outside around distractions in your first session, but it typically doesn't go very well.
SPEAKER_01:We have a sterile environment to train.
SPEAKER_00:We have a sterile environment to train. Yeah. Shane was like, you don't do free shaping with her, that's why she can't like use her brain. I was like, Shane.
SPEAKER_01:We don't have a room.
SPEAKER_00:We don't have a room. Like, how what am I gonna do? Free shape her on the sidewalk? Like, no, that is not gonna work. Yeah. So the facility has been amazing. It's really cool that we're able to host workshops. We've got lots of amazing things coming next year. I actually just talked to somebody today about a really cool workshop in January. You guys are gonna be super stoked on that one. So hang tight on that. What else do we have going on?
SPEAKER_01:We got a puppy seminar coming up.
SPEAKER_00:We have a puppy seminar coming up. That is with Stephanie. She has been on the podcast previously. She is the one who has way more experience than pretty much anybody else that I've ever had on the podcast. But she's just a humble queen. So she's gonna be doing a puppy workshop here what first week of November.
SPEAKER_01:I'm not sure what the dates are, but they're posted on they're posted on my Instagram.
SPEAKER_00:So if you guys are interested in that, the post will instruct you on how to sign up for that. And we will also be sharing what we're gonna be doing with the facility here very soon. Kind of going for like a group class structure, like multiple group classes throughout the week. So if you guys are local to us, we are in Upland, California. That's probably gonna start in December. Yeah. So I'll share more details of that as that comes up. Virtual Shadow program. Next virtual shadow program starts December 3rd. If you are interested in becoming a dog trainer, this program is designed for you. Three weeks all online. First half covers the dog training fundamentals, all the things we talked about today, right? Getting really solid on your timing, on your marker words, on body language, when we decide to correct, when we reward, all of that sort of stuff. And then the second half covers the business side of things, which is kind of my personal favorite. I love to chat business. I love to help new dog trainers with that stuff because there's so many resources out there for dog training now, but there's not a lot for the business side of things. So that's like my calling. That's the thing that I like to do most. So yeah, that starts December 3rd. Would love to have y'all join that one. It's amazing. You won't regret it. I promise. There's so many wonderful people in there. That's like a huge advantage of joining the virtual shadow program. It's a private community inside of my community. So you guys are in there with other dog trainers who are also in the process of growing their business and learning. And it's just cool to have like a little built-in support group. So join. We would love to have you there.
SPEAKER_01:You do a bunch of live training sessions.
SPEAKER_00:We do live training sessions, we do group calls. You will be sick of me by the three weeks. And I keep it small too. Less than 10 people.
SPEAKER_01:They maintain access afterwards, right?
SPEAKER_00:They have it for life. You have it for life. It's literally the best. I didn't expect the virtual shadow program to become what it has become, but I am I'm very happy with everything that it has become.
SPEAKER_01:We have people from like the first round that are still chiming in on calls.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah, and it's cool. Like even Kaylani posted today, you know, like, oh, this thing that I learned from my mentor. I'm like, oh my gosh, tear, thank you. But she did the virtual shoutout program over a year ago, and now she's killing it, and she is a full-time dog trainer and running her own business and has all her own clients and does all the things.
SPEAKER_01:You'd be peep putting people on game.
SPEAKER_00:I know. There's so many dogs out there, there's literally no reason for competition. And that's something that I think is very cool about where we're at, you know?
SPEAKER_01:Yeah, we're we're training with a bunch of trainers.
SPEAKER_00:Well, we're literally we're 20 minutes away from Oscar, we're 30 minutes away from Shane, we are like 30 minutes away from Saul. Like, we're all dog trainers, all of our friends are dog trainers, and we're all very supportive in like Oscar has helped us so much, you know. Oscar has has made us all better dog trainers, like you have to admit. Thousand percent. And like he didn't have to. We are not his trainers, we are not his trainers. He invited us out. We I was talking to Roel about this. I was like, I can't believe that Oscar just let just invited us to come train. Welcomed us with open arms, welcomed us with open arms what a year ago? Like, I don't know. I'm very, very grateful. We have a super killer community out here of, you know, really skilled dog trainers. And I would love to see that across the country and across the world. I think there's definitely gonna be a big shift in the industry. People are going to people that are supporting each other instead of looking at everybody like competition, you know.
SPEAKER_01:There's more than enough dogs out there that need help and clients that need help. We can just all, you know, pun intended, use Oscar's name, elevate each other. Oh my gosh. Hey, it's true. I'd be catching myself saying elevated all the time. That stems from him for sure. He loves that. But it's it's true, you know. We we all help each other out and we refer each other like to cli like we're referring clients to each other all the time. Like there's no competition.
SPEAKER_00:There's no competition, and a lot of our clients are like going to each other, you know.
SPEAKER_01:Literally bouncing. Which is between all of us is amazing.
SPEAKER_00:Like y'all are super dedicated. That's so cool. I think I love training with all the sporty people. I've learned so much, but I think my next venture into the dog training world is learning a little bit more about the pack work. Well, not necessarily the pack work. Do you know organ tales?
SPEAKER_02:Yeah.
SPEAKER_00:I think that's kind of I would love I would love to go to like a workshop with them. And that way kind of learning like both sides of the dog training spectrum, right? We have like Oscar, who is very precise, holds his dogs to a very, very high standard. I think that's one thing that I've learned a lot, especially over the past year, of all the people that we've worked with, is like Oscar is a good fucking dog trainer. And he holds his dogs to a very high standard at a very young age, and it works. And his dogs do very well, you know. So that has been eye-opening for me, and I think it was eye-opening for the people this weekend at the workshop as well, because Shane also holds his dogs to very high standards and that it works, you know, and the people are seeing that. And I was talking to a few of the girls, and they're like, I realize that I kind of treat my dogs like they're dumb.
SPEAKER_02:Yep.
SPEAKER_00:And I was like, Yes, I also had this realization when I started learning from them. So I don't know. I have loved learning this side of it. It's been very, very difficult for me because I am not good at it naturally. But I think I kind of want to go see the other, the other side of dog training a little bit, and that way I can kind of compare the two and find my own way somewhere in the middle. Yeah. Even after eight years.
SPEAKER_01:At the end of the day, I think that's like balanced training, right? You kind of look at both spectrums, and at the end of the day, like you make up your own, you know, there's no secret sauce, but you make your own training. So yeah, figure, figure out what you like and always learning.
SPEAKER_00:I feel like I'm making up for I didn't get to do this in the beginning of my career. I didn't get to go and learn from anybody else because I was so busy training dogs. Which I'm very grateful for because I learned so much just getting my hands on dogs and working with clients, and it's really shaped who I am. But it's cool that we have a little more time to go see what's out there and learn from people that are different than us. That's kind of what we should do as dog trainers. Keep learning.
SPEAKER_01:You're always gonna learn something.
SPEAKER_00:Whether it's what you want to do or what you don't want to do, yeah. Every single time. But all right, y'all. Missed ya. Happy to be back. I hope you guys enjoyed this episode. You got anything else to add, Toma?
SPEAKER_01:No, it's a pleasure being on.
SPEAKER_00:Um, it's a pleasure being on.
SPEAKER_01:I do enjoy these.
SPEAKER_00:I know.
SPEAKER_01:I love to yap.
SPEAKER_00:Toma loves to yap. All right, guys. Thanks for being here. We appreciate you. We'll see you next week. Next week. Bye. Oh, my button.