Adopt or Shop? How To Choose The Right Dog For You

Choosing a dog shouldn’t feel like a coin toss. We dive straight into the adopt vs shop debate with a clear lens on temperament, genetics, and the everyday realities that keep dogs safe and families sane. With Danielle’s deep rescue experience and our training background, we unpack why reputable breeders focus on stable nerves, why ethical programs include take-back policies, and how unregulated backyard breeding fuels shelters with dogs bred for looks instead of behavior.

From there, we get tactical. You’ll hear a step-by-step plan for bringing a new dog home the safe way: slip lead on indoors, crate for meals and rest, three days of quiet decompression, and zero dog parks. For multi-dog homes, we share the system we use with client dogs—barriers, parallel walks, place work, and genuine neutrality—before any face-to-face play. You’ll learn how to read early red flags through a crate door, prevent resource guarding, and avoid the common mistake of throwing a new dog into the deep end on day one.

We also address the hard truths. Genetics set limits; training adds skills inside those limits. We examine bite risk, why some dogs look “bad” in shelters but relax at home, and when it’s ethical to say a dog isn’t safe for a specific family. We push back on the idea that love fixes everything, showing how clear boundaries and fair corrections can actually protect relationships and keep dogs out of shelters. Whether you’re eyeing a rescue or interviewing breeders, you’ll get practical filters: what to ask, what to avoid, and how to pick a temperament that matches your life.

If you’re ready to choose a dog with your eyes open—and set them up to thrive from day one—this conversation gives you the blueprint. Listen, share with a friend who’s dog shopping, and if it helped, subscribe and leave a review so more people find the show.

Visit us on the website here to see what we've got going on and how you can join our pack of good dogs and owners.

Transcript

Welcome, Guests, And Topic Setup

SPEAKER_01 0:09

Hello and welcome back to the Everyday Trainer Podcast. My name is Meg, and I am a dog trainer. Today's episode, we're talking adopt or shop. Where should you get your dog? From a shelter or a rescue or an ethical breeder? We're gonna break it down. You know the drill? Grab yourself a tasty drink and meet me back here. Hey guys, welcome back. I took a little bit of a break, but it's good to be back. Say hi, Danielle. Hello. I'm joined by Danielle. We're at her house in San Diego. Her voice might sound familiar. Danielle has been on the podcast before. Tell us a little bit about yourself, Danielle.

SPEAKER_02 1:00

My name's Danielle. I work for Meg in the Everyday Trainer podcast. The Everyday Trainer, San Diego. I'm a dog trainer as well. And I do a lot of rescue work for a local rescue here called the Animal Pad.

Danielle’s Rescue Background And First Fosters

Why People Foster And Early Lessons

SPEAKER_01 1:17

Yeah. And that's what we had you on last time. We had you and Lauren, and it was a hilarious episode. Yes. Famously tied my dog to a tree. Yes. Yes. So how long have you been in the rescue world? I fostered my first dog in October of 2021. So it's almost been five years. Yeah. Nice. And did you start with the animal pad? I did. I reached out to a lot of different rescues, and the animal pad got back to me the fastest, and the rest is history. Nice. Your first dog wasn't Denny, right? No, I actually did foster a Malinois though. His name was Snoop Dog. And he was the chillest Malinois you've ever met. And so I really thought I just was the best dog trainer in the world. Yeah. You get lucky with the chill Malinois. Sometimes. If you ever see Danielle's stories, it's like her and like seven Malinois just in the backyard. You're officially the Malinois girly. Yes. But I did not know, I didn't even know how to say Malinois when I brought Snoop Dog home. You're like, oh, look a Malinoise. They were like, Do you know what this dog breed is? I said, Nope. I guess I'll figure it out. That's crazy to get a Malinois as your first time foster. Yeah, first time owning or having a dog in my care as an adult. Wild. Wild. And he got adopted in a month. He was chill. I would like to walk him a couple miles a day and he would sleep in his crate. He was so easy and good. And so I thought, these people are crazy. Malinois aren't hard. And what made you want to start fostering? I don't like commitment. And so I was scared to adopt a dog or just bring a dog into my life without ever having one as an adult. And so having one as a foster felt like a good segue into adopting a dog because I didn't have to fully commit to it. And there was financial backing and help with the rescue. That's very responsible of you. Yeah, I guess. Or instead of just like going and getting a random dog and hoping for the best, you know. Yeah. Yeah. Um, turns out that is definitely the route that I would recommend for most people, but I think I was just younger and didn't really know what I wanted. And so I was like, well, let's just like foster some dogs, see how it goes. Yeah. Tell us about Dennis. How'd you get him? Dennis was my fourth foster. Somebody sent me his rescue story on Instagram that pulled up my heartstrings. And like I said, I took home a Malinois before. And so I thought, oh, this is easy. Like I can do this. Um, and he ended up being more of a Malinois than my first Snoop Dog. And he was found in Mexico and Ensenada, and his back legs weren't working, and he was just like this little baby that like was very malnourished, couldn't walk very well.

SPEAKER_02 4:24

And two weeks in, he got healthy and started um barking at everyone and grabbing the leash and biting me and doing all the malinois things.

Adopt Or Shop: Framing The Debate

What Ethical Breeding Looks Like

SPEAKER_01 4:34

And I was very scared of him. And so we learned a lot together. And now he's my best friend. I love him. I would never look back or do anything different, but I do wish that I knew more when I first brought him home of how to handle a dog like him. Yeah, for sure. So today we're gonna talk about. I have Danielle here because she is the representative for the rescue side of things. I, if we're gonna talk about adopt or shop, I kind of lean towards getting a dog from a reputable breeder, and we'll kind of talk about what that looks like as well. But I can also very much empathize with Danielle's side of things as well because she's a lot deeper into rescue and she's a lot more experienced working with rescue dogs than I do. You know, you've been working at the Animal Pad for five years and you see so many rescue dogs come in and get adopted and live amazing lives with all different types of people, you know. And the dog trainer take is typically okay, well, get a dog from a reputable breeder because those dogs are bred for temperament and not for looks, you know. And we'll also kind of get into what the issue is, right? Like what the systemic issue is that there are so many dogs in the shelter, and there are so many behavioral dogs out there, like there is an abundance of dog trainers in the world, and I think part of that is due to all of this kind of backyard breeding that we see. Totally. Yeah, and the whole idea behind adopt, don't shop, or adopt or shop ethically, yeah. Um, is a very important conversation. I think a lot of people like me just want to bring a dog into their life and give it love, and they're like, I know nothing about dogs, but I'm just going to give it the best life ever. And dogs need more than that. And I think people are just not educated enough to understand how to handle it. Yeah. No, I completely agree. So, my kind of side of things is I want to support people who are ethically breeding dogs. And this is like, you know, not the breeders. Oh my gosh, I can't believe you would say that. Like breeding dogs is so bad. But you have to think that people who are breeding dogs ethically, those dogs are not ending up in shelters, and they typically do not have behavioral issues because they're being bred for temperament. And typically, ethical breeders are not, it's not a puppy mill situation, right? Like there's an interview process for getting a puppy. They care about, you know, matching the puppy's temperament with the right owner, and they're not just gonna give any dog to any owner because they know, okay, this this owner might not be able to handle this dog, or even, you know, refusing people to give them a dog at all if they don't think that that breed of dog fits with their lifestyle. So my take is in an ideal world, breeding is highly what's the word I'm looking for? I don't know. Like laws. Laws. Oh, there's not uh regulations. Oh, there's unregulated. That breeding is more regulated because then those dogs would end up in homes, and also people who have no business getting dogs would not be getting dogs because they would get vetted out by the breeders.

SPEAKER_00 8:22

Right.

Backyard Breeders And Red Flags

SPEAKER_01 8:22

You know, yeah. Like in a in a nice little glass bubble that would be perfect and would like solve all of our issues of there being behavioral dogs and unsafe dogs and a bunch of dogs getting dumped at shelters and you know, stuck in rescues for a little or too long of a time. But obviously that's not like the world that we live in, right? Because I think part of it too is people, uh, an ethical breeder wouldn't would always take their dog back if something happened with your family, if you needed to move, you had kids, whatever, it's not working out, the ethical breeder will always take the dog back and not let the dog go to the shelter. But there's a lot of backyard breeders that will dump whole litters at the shelter because they can't find homes for them. And that's really where the issue stems from. Yeah. And backyard breeders are not typically breeding for temperament. So some signs that you're dealing with a backyard breeder is weird coloring of dogs, right? So, like myle dogs that are not supposed to be myle. We um like silver dobermans, things like that. There are certain breed standards, and people are breeding for aesthetic outside of those breed standards. Fluffy French bulldogs, fluffy French bulldogs, doodles, doodles, doodles, doodles are lots of doodles with crazy temperaments that people do not know what they're doing with them. Right, but those dogs are not bred for temperament, they're bred for looks. All of these types of dogs, and a lot of conflicting personalities in the if you're like in a doodle, like they don't the the mixes don't mix well for being around. Well, they're just mixing like anything, they're literally just mixing anything to get like a certain look, right? And also, I'm gonna I'm always bashing doodles. I'm so sorry. Um, but I'm not um something that I see a lot with doodle breeders is they breed doodles plus they breed aussies, plus they breed mini aussies and Frenchies, and they're breeding like so many different types of dogs. That's typically a red flag that you're dealing with a backyard breeder. Yeah, even two different types of dogs that they're breeding is a red flag, yeah, doodle or not, but yeah, saddle dog and wiener dog, you know. Yeah, it's like crazy. Why are we doing what are we doing there? Um, if you can't see the parents, I think that's a big red flag. If the person doesn't ask about your lifestyle or care about anything that you're doing with your life, that is a red flag. A cheap or free dog? Cheap or free. See, but I feel like the thing is these dogs aren't cheap, like these backyard bread, super that's not the only red flag, but if you see a cheap, you're like, I got this really cheap German Shepherd off Craigslist, probably not a well-bred dog. Yeah. And my thing is, well-bred dogs are kind of bomb-proof. It doesn't matter if you're a great trainer or a great owner, they are bred for really solid temperaments and they're kind of hard to mess up. Yeah. I think there's some truth to that. But from my rescue side, I think there's a lot of really good dogs in the shelter that also can be bomb-proof if you find the right one. I agree. I don't think it's mutually exclusive to just, you know, dogs from ethical breeders, but you typically know what kind of temperament you're getting if you go to a specific breeder for that, you know? So for example, Zoe versus like, I mean, you've trained some backyard bred Goldens. Like they're typically really resource guardi, they're gonna be super cute, but they have some other behavioral issues. Um, I see that one all the time. Muffin. Muffin is a backyard bred Malinois. I didn't get her from a good breeder, and imagine her going to like an average person. Yeah, she'd be horrible. Yeah, I mean, it doesn't help that she's a Malinois, but for sure. Yeah, not a good temperament, a little sketchy, yeah. She's a little she's a little sketchy, you know. And that's like two, I don't have all well-bred dogs. Like Lucy is a backyard bred golden, and she also has some like neurotic issues. She's a light chaser, she is a bad dog overall. I do think I love her, but she's bad. I think it's important to note though that there are some well-bred dogs that still have behavior issues, that it, you know, it happens genetically. I think there can be a a mishap in the breeding. Yeah, for sure. But I do think that it's less likely. It's less likely. And if that happens, the breeder is typically there helping you go through that. How many dogs do you think you've trained and have been around that are well-bred dogs with from an ethical breeder? I mean, only a handful. Yeah. I would say most of the dogs that I train are rescues or backyard bread. Do the owners with backyard bread dogs think that they got a well-bred dog? Always. Yeah. Always. That's the problem, I think, for me, is the lack of education around what kind of dogs people are getting. Yeah. And so the rescue dogs get a really bad reputation because people go to the shelter and pick out a cute dog, but they don't know how to temperament us. They don't know what the dog is going to look like when they get older. But as trainers, we do. I mean, for the most part. Obviously, we don't know their bloodlines or where they came from, their actual genetics, but we can kind of see like what what generally their temperament is going to be like in a home. Yes, for sure. And people typically just go to shelters. I don't know about like the rescue world, but I feel like people just look for the dog that is cute for sure. And not necessarily or breed. And they're like, oh, I love shepherds. I mean, I grew up with a shepherd. Yeah. Yeah. And saying saying that like well-bred dogs are bomb-proof, we can kind of say the opposite is genetics can really be a bitch. And if temperament is not taken into account when breeding dogs, you can get some really dangerous dogs.

Genetics, Temperament, And Risk

SPEAKER_00 15:21

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 15:22

You know?

SPEAKER_00 15:23

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 15:23

And we've kind of been talking about this, I would say, for the entirety of us knowing each other. And that's kind of why I always push people to go to a good breeder because especially with the Malinois, the any sort of like protection breed, I get really, really nervous of people either going and getting backyard bred dogs or going and you know, adopting dogs that they don't know that are just they're they're kind of sold this like sob story, right? Like we recently had somebody that like pulled a dangerous dog that ended up biting somebody. And I recently had a client who their dog bit them, you know, and it's like I never want anybody to have to go through that ever. It's the most traumatic thing to be like attacked by your own dog, but it happens. It happens way more often than people know. And I think what you're doing is so important because of that. Like you're on the behavioral team at your rescue, and you're educating people on picking a dog that aligns with them and also advocating for people in situations and being like, hey, this dog is probably not a good fit for you because it needs this type of handler.

SPEAKER_00 16:47

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 16:48

You know, instead of just selling people like sob stories of, oh, this dog is, you know, or downplaying the behaviors. Downplaying the behaviors, very dangerous, super dangerous. But I do think that, like, kind of my argument back to that is these intense breeds like the Malinois, the Doberman, the there's a lot of intense breeds out there, the pit bull. Um, they could be well bred, but they get into the wrong hands. And somebody who doesn't know what they're doing with a well-bred Malinois, a huge mal who's meant for biting is also going to be very dangerous to that person. Yes. And we also know people like that, totally, who have no business having the dogs that they have. Totally. Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 17:34

Maybe, maybe, maybe we could be talking about ourselves.

Dangerous Dogs, Bites, And Ethics

Shelter Behavior Vs Home Behavior

SPEAKER_01 17:40

No, it's funny. I had somebody message me and they're like, I'm laughing because I'm listening to your podcast from a while ago, and you said that you'll never get a malinois, and like you'll never get a sport dog. I said I would never get a purebred dog. I was like, I'm always gonna get a mutt, you know. I was like always rescue my whole life. And then I have two purebred malinois, but not well bred. Yeah, yeah. And also, like you got very lucky with your dogs. Like Denny is, I mean, Denny is an edge. He's a nervy guy. Yes. The the funniest thing. Do you remember him being on the table during like the 4th of July? It was like fireworks were going off, and Denny was out in the house, and I was at Danielle's house like all day, and she wasn't there. And I I was walking around the house all day long and did not notice that Dennis was literally laying on the kitchen table, flat as a pancake, like petrified of the fireworks. And I'm just like, and then I like flipped the lights on, and he's just like pancaked to the top of the table. And I was like, Denny. Yeah, he's he's just a nervous guy, he's very nervous, and that is that is genetic. It's he's naturally very insecure and nervous about things. Yeah, but I did, we were just talking about this, but like I did luck out a lot that he's a nice dog. So he's like safe, safe, yes. I mean, for the most part, he is, he has a little bit of an edge to him that I've figured out through the years, but for the most part, he does not want to bite people. He would never like redirect on me or like no handle or aggression at all, which I really lucked out on. Yeah, because that happens a lot with the mouse, but also too, and I treated him like a baby. Let's be real. And oh my gosh, Zoe is farting and it is deadly. I was literally laying on the couch and I thought that I had poop on my hand because it smelled it smelled so strong. I was like, oh my god, there's poop on my hand. There's that's the only reason it could smell this bad in here. Anyways, we were also talking, I think yesterday, about how we can only train the dogs so much. Like genetics is so strong, right? And like you were talking about doing protection sports with Denny, and like you do it, but it's like, does he really like it? And is he always gonna be this type of dog? Like, you are you ever gonna make him confident like Meg? Right, yeah. Um, yeah, and we like hit a point in our sport training, which has been really good for him up till now to build confidence, but we hit a point where he like cannot work through get out of his head, like he just panics, and yeah, is that sure? Like, I guess I could really work hard on that and cause a lot of stress for both of us to more separation, not sleeping on the bed, things like that. But like those are also our favorite parts of the day, and so like you know, you have to pick and choose your battles, yeah. And all dogs have a genetic ceiling, and that's why I think it's so important to get really clear on what you want out of a dog before you ever go into it. Or let's say you do have a dog and you have expectations for them that don't align with their genetics and who they are, and this is something that I have dealt with a lot because I got muffin against everyone's better judgment, you know, like Shane told me not to get her, Oscar told me not to get her because I don't I didn't know her temperament. I didn't know if she was gonna be able to work, if she was actually gonna be able to be a sport dog, if she was gonna be an unsafe dog or have handler aggression or any of that. I didn't know that, you know. So I was kind of gambling by getting this little Malinois puppy. And I did get very lucky in that like she does work for the most part, but something that I'm seeing in class. Is obviously I'm training with Shane and Celine and Toma, and you know, everybody got these sport dogs for that purpose and that are bred for that purpose, and they're able to skip a lot of steps that I'm not able to skip. Totally. I have to go a lot slower in our training because Muffin is not specifically bred for that. Like I am working against her genetics to try to turn her into a little sport dog. Yes. I feel the same way with Meg. Meg is way quicker. She's, I don't know what her genetics are, but obviously way better than Dennis. She's in it, she goes fast. I can, she gets things so much quicker than he does. So I totally feel the with him, it's a lot slower. And I one step forward, ten steps back. It's very frustrating. Yeah. Yeah, for sure. Um, but one thing about the sports that I'm kind of realizing too is that isn't that the whole point? Like we just you have this malinois, she likes it. So why do we have to move fast? Why do we have to like have the best dog out there? I know it's all, you know, there's more to that. But um a deeper conversation. But if you're gonna get a Malinois, then do the things with it. Have fun, play, do sports with it. Uh, who cares if they're going so like moving quickly, like the well-bred bull herder that's in your club, you know? Um, like Muffin likes it. You're getting you're becoming a better dog trainer, like you got this rescue, and now she's out there doing PSA. Like, how fun is that? Yeah. No, I think it's it's very easy to I've like compared myself to a lot of other people who have very different dogs from mine, and I'm like, oh, they would never be able to get to where I'm at with Muffin at a year old, you know, because she is a difficult dog, and I have to train her a million more times than a lot of people have to train their dogs, and because of that, I've learned so, so much from her. And this is also kind of why I got her. I don't know, I don't know what it is or if I'm just like a little woo-woo, but every dog that I've gotten, I've always known that that was my dog. Yeah, I think I think you have to know that. Yeah, people like you know that. I mean, I fostered a lot of dogs and I only kept two of them so far so far. Yeah. Like I just knew when I saw Muffin, I was like, oh, that's my dog. And everyone was like, do not get that dog. And I was like, I'm gonna get that dog. Look how cute. And I'm gonna baby her muffin.

unknown 24:40

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 24:42

But there is like a level of frustration that I have sometimes. Like we had a really bad training session on Monday, and she acted like I had never trained her a day in my life. And like, okay, we're gonna have to go 10 steps back and work forward again, you know. And I was starting to kind of fade the lure in our healing, and then I did a session with her today, and I'm doing like a full lure again.

SPEAKER_02 25:10

I'm like, okay, here we go, you know.

SPEAKER_01 25:12

But that's kind of the the trade-off there. Or even, you know, how I got into training, I got Zoe first. Zoe is the angel cuppy cake dog. I thought that I was a great dog trainer, and I do think that I've always been pretty good with animals, but Zoe's just Zoe, you know, she's an easy dog. She has no ounce of aggression in her body. She's clingy, she would never run away. And then when I got Lucy, I didn't really know that I was getting a field line lab or that there was even a difference between a show line and a field line. And I got another golden thinking that I was gonna have another Zoe.

SPEAKER_00 25:54

Yeah.

Structure First: Bringing A Dog Home Safely

SPEAKER_01 25:54

And I got uh Lucy is the driviest dog that I have, driveier than Glovin, like drivier than all of our malanois, and she's 10 years old. Yeah, she's crazy. But I think that goes back to the original part is point is that people don't know how to pick out the right dog for themselves, which is why I'm so I have such a strong opinion about rescue first, but responsibly. So going to a dog trainer, trying to figure out what the temperament of a puppy is. I don't know. If you're in the sport world listening to this, you know that people go to litters of puppies that were that were born and they do a temperament test with all the puppies and they decide if one is gonna work for them or not. And I think we could literally do the same thing at a rescue. Yeah, for sure. And be like, okay, you know, drop something, see what they do, you know, just a lot of different types of temperament of okay, that's a very shy dog, and people kind of like shy dogs because they're cute and hiding. But as a dog trainer, you know there's gonna be issues leading up to your fullness, carefulness, you know, insecurity and a lot of insecurity lead to bites and uh reactivity and other behavior issues. And if that's something you're willing to work with, that's great, but maybe you have kids and that's like just not right for your family, yeah. Or something even as simple as the breed, you know, totally helping you weed out certain breeds. Yes, one thing is never trust what the rescue or shelter says the breed of the dog is. Okay. They'll see like a black and white dog and say a border collie mix, or a black dog and say lab mix. It's not to make people want that dog, but I think it's just because they label them as whatever they think. They don't put a lot of effort into the breed of the dog, and a lot of people take that to heart, um, whatever the rescue or shelter labels them as. And I a lot of the time these lab mixes have zero lab in them once you do your wisdom panel or your whatever it is, embark. Um, and so really look at the dog. Like, does it look like a shepherd? Is it labeled as a lab mix, but it looks like a shepherd? Like, just you know, the take listen to your intuition about it. Yeah. What are some of the main reasons that you see people returning dogs? I see people returning dogs because they have too much energy for what their lifestyle is, they can't put in the work. Um, a lot of people don't know how much effort a puppy is and how much time it takes. The amount of crying that us dog trainers listen to in the crate is very valuable. And the amount of time that dogs dogs take in life, you know, just you have to do more than just a walk with them. It does take structure and boundaries. A lot of people take home dogs, me included, at first, and let them sleep in the bed, let them on the couch, give them no freedom or no structure at all, and all the freedom because we have this mindset that they were a rescue.

SPEAKER_02 29:14

So if I just give them love, if I just give them, or they've never had love before, so they really need it now. You know, they they why would I put them in a cage?

Multi‑Dog Homes And Slow Introductions

Expectations, Lifestyle Fit, And Returns

Anthropomorphism, Boundaries, And Saying No

SPEAKER_01 29:23

They lived in a cage before, and that's really detrimental to the dog and dangerous and dangerous, yeah. So I think a lot of I think it's just a lack of education of what kind of dog they're bringing home, and a lot of dogs these days that are being bred are high drive dogs, they have a lot of energy. I would, especially in California, yeah. Like all of these working breeds, people with Malinois and Dobermans and Corsos, Shepherd mixes, shepherd mixes, and they're a lot of times really nervy because they do come from backyard breeders. So not only are you getting a intense breed, but a intense breed that is not very well bred and doesn't always have a great temperament. Not to say that there aren't exceptions, because there definitely are. Yeah, I also think there's something to those breeds being pretty sensitive and they get bounced around a lot. So I agree. I think about that with Dennis a lot, where at the beginning I did try to re-foster him because he scared the shit out of me. Um, and I didn't know what to do with him. I was like, I'm not, I'm not a good enough handler for this dog. But my I knew I could tell, like if I bring him back to the shelter and he bounces around to five different foster homes, like that's gonna mess it up. Like he's never gonna recover from that. And so I was like, I have we have to make this work. And honestly, like, yeah, I think there's a lot of dogs where people bring them back. And I also recognize that I was in a position where I could keep a dog that I was a little afraid of because I had two amazing roommates that were very patient with me, but we were adults. Um, I had a job, I had the time, I didn't have kids. I like there's a lot of I didn't have other dogs, so there was a um not a lot of what's the word? There wasn't a lot on the line for me. It was me. Yeah, it's not like a kid's gonna get bit or something. So there's a I mean, obviously there's so many different factors to put into it and kids and your livelihood come first, but I do think like just taking some extra time for a dog to kind of think about that, like them bouncing around really does sometimes really mess with the dog, and it just sometimes they can never recover, or if they're at the shelter too long, like we see it a lot where a reactive dog gets returned because nobody wants to deal with the reactivity, but then they're surrounded by barking dogs all day, and it's tough practice and not reactivity all day long at a gate. Peter is a very good example of that, one of my fosters, and he just barks at people all day long. And I took him home, and it was just like very hard to get that out of him, yeah, very ingrained. Yeah, or even we talked about this with Cassidy. She kind of intercepted Makai, the little uh what staffy? Is he a little staffy? So our friend Cassidy foster trained a little staffy, and she kind of intercepted him before she before he went to the shelter, and she told us this. She was like, if he went to the shelter, he would be a completely different dog. Like he would practice and a lot harder to recover from for a normal person to come in and want to foster a dog like that. Yeah, yeah, for sure. And especially the Malinois. I mean, think about River. River, I thought was gonna die. Literally, the people at the shelter thought River was gonna die. If you don't know, River was a dog that Toma and I pulled at the beginning of last year, I believe. Came from one of uh the LA shelters. He had an upper respiratory infection, and one of my amazing friends in LA was able to go and pull him before his youth date. And again, that was one of those dogs where I see a million rescue dogs on Instagram every single day, and I get tons of messages from people who are like, pull this dog, it's gonna get euthanized. And I like you just can't get caught up in all of it because you can't save all the dogs. But for whatever reason, I was like, Oh, I have to get river, like I have to go get river. And so we pulled river, the rescue, or not the rescue, the shelter wanted to euthanize him before we pulled him. Like that happens a lot. What the heck is that? As soon as a dog, I mean, I can't you can't blame anyone because the shelters are so overpacked, but as soon as they're sick or they have any kind of aggression, I know, but it was like after we said that after you said, yeah, yeah. Because I think a lot of people pull out, people say they're gonna come get the dog, they don't, and then they're like, Well, this dog is so sick in our care. So one of my followers actually worked at that shelter and she like advocated for River because uh my friend went in and was like, Hey, can I pull him? And they're like, Well, we need to like get a vet visit first before we adopt him out, come back tomorrow. And I guess after she left, they were like, Let's just euthanize him. Like, he's super sick, he's not gonna make it. And uh one of my followers was like, No, I know the girl who's gonna get him, like she's actually gonna get him, like she's not gonna pull out, yeah, you know, and she advocated for him, and she's literally the only reason like he is still alive and living his best life. But when we pulled him, we didn't really know he's big ass Malinois. But I think that we're all we both are in unique circumstances where one now we are both dog trainers, but we don't we can handle it because it's just us, yes, and we're also very we know how to read the dogs and know if the dog is unsafe and not fit to go out into the world totally, you know. I would never I would never keep a dog around that would hurt somebody, yeah, you know. So let's say I did pull river and I could handle river all day long, but if he was a sketchy dog and I thought that he would put a dog or person in the hospital, I would probably make the call of you know, behavioral euthanasia, which is a conversation for another that's a whole nother vodka. We are not going to get into that, but that's kind of my take on the whole thing. And that's why I struggle so much with a lot of rescues. I think your rescue is very much an exception, but I struggle with a lot of rescues playing this like guilt game of oh, this dog is on the youth list and he just needs love, a loving home, you know, and then it tugs at somebody's heartstrings and they pull this gnarly dog with a bite history, and now they're stuck with this super unsafe dog. And they also got bit by the dog. And they also got bit by the dog. Yes. So I understand that point of view, but I think it's also, which is my whole life point, what I do, is I want to educate people. If you are gonna go to the shelter and pull a dog, like let me help you. Well, well, and give it structure. Like, don't let that dog immediately just loosen your house without a leash on and just roaming around doing whatever they you don't know if they resource guard what's gonna trigger. Sitting on the couch and oh, yeah, we've seen in la. Yeah, we see a lot of situations where not a lot. I that was dramatic, but we've seen situations where dogs on the couch, they are uncomfortable with the spatial pressure that the dog put themselves in, but they just got there and they don't know any better. They've never learned. And, you know, all of a sudden you're face to face with a dog that's uncomfortable, and you're pretty much screwed in that situation. You know, there's like not much you can do about it. And so I think that the lack, the societal views on dogs and the lack of education also fails a lot of dogs, which is why Meg and I talk a lot when like about euthanasia and what dogs are safe and whatnot. Like, I always want to advocate for the dogs because I think people fail dogs, but I also know that there's a lot of unsafe dogs, and there's just it's a whole conversation about what is like which is which for each dog. It's very subjective. And it's it's tough. Like I recently had in it, uh, you know, just in the past couple weeks, I had a client of mine call me late at night. She had been literally mauled by her dog. And like that is no trainer wants to get that call. But even I was talking to my other trainer friend about this, and he was like, I just got that text message yesterday. You know, it's something that we deal with all the time, and it has really changed my perspective as well of what is ethical as a dog trainer, as myself, to say that I can fix, right? And for this dog, that was a conversation that we had before I ever did any training with them was hey, you know, we can do the training, but this is an unstable dog. And I always want to advocate for the safety of people because even if a dog is sweet 99% of the time, there's that 1% of the time that I see I think way too much for my liking, liking because it's traumatizing to have to go through, that dogs can really, really hurt people. And so my take is dogs that are in the shelters, that have bite records, that have issues that are visible in the shelter, I really struggle advocating for those dogs and saying that we should put those dogs out into society and people should adopt these dogs when there are so many amazing safe shelter dogs and rescue dogs out there. Totally. I just I see the other small side of it where a lot of the dogs don't show well in the shelter. And so I famously always have a lot of foster dogs because I can't help myself, but I just know that they don't, and most of the time their malinois are like a working breed because I know they don't show well there. But when they come home, they, you know, it's not that they don't have an edge, but it's something that is just they don't want to bite, they're just terrified in the shelter. Yeah. And so I just want people to be more educated on what to do, set the dog up for success when they bring him home. But there's also, I mean, as you're saying, like there is a difference between a dangerous dog and a dog that's just terrified in a shelter and kind of nipping at the workers or whatever, like my dog Meg, Meg in the stallion, um, her government name, she bit somebody at, you know, Humane Society, and she was in the behavior center, and it was this whole thing. And what's crazy about her is she's my most stable dog. She's so friendly with people. She loves dogs, she's so social. Um, but at one point she was hit by a car and had surgery, and then she was in a little cage, and she's a working dog, you know, and so she wasn't getting the outlet that she needed. And um I think that she easily could have not had a chance because of the way that she showed at the shelter.

SPEAKER_00 41:18

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 41:19

Um, but then there's also like a dog like Dennis, who was very actually nice at the shelter and good with everybody, good with people, and and he still is. But when I brought him home, he showed that edge to me where I was like, oh, you like are barking at everyone and like will you bite? I don't really know. Um, and so and he ended up being a nice dog, but I do think like dogs like that wouldn't stand a chance if they went back to the shelter and were terrified. And so I I think there's some there, there just needs to be more education on us as humans doing dogs justice when we bring them home. If you want to go, you see that I love rescue, like euthanasia post, which I've done before and pulled the dog. I know, okay, we're gonna have a lot of structure. We're gonna do limited pets, limited love, like see where you're at because we just don't know these dogs. And I think that um, if we can set them up for success and then hire a trainer, be like, hey, what do you think about this dog? He kind of got like snappy here, he's doing this, you know? And um see actually what that dog's personality is. And I mean, it's tough because there's only so many, so much money you want to put into a dog and trainers, you might not have a good trainer that you trust. So I get that. Um, it's easier for me to say because I'm just I understand the dogs. Um, but I do think there just needs to be more education around dogs in general, like how to care for them, how to handle them, how to handle certain situations. Like I had a client that got a lab from a rescue, a lab, very friendly lab, but like brought it straight from the rescue to a dog park, and it's like fighting dogs at the dog park.

SPEAKER_03 43:00

Yeah.

Finding The Right Trainer And Methods

Final Advice And Next Week’s Tease

SPEAKER_01 43:01

And you could argue, like, oh, it's because it's a rescue, but it's probably just because that dog is so unsure about what's going on in its life, you know. That's not something I would ever recommend is to go to a dog park the day you bring home a dog. Yeah. Um, and you know, it that could be sent right back to the shelter, and then, you know, then he he has a reputation of being dog aggressive or something. And so I just Or also rehearsing that behavior. Rehearsing it, yeah. So luckily she hired a trainer and you know, he's a great dog and is not dog aggressive. He just needed some stability. Um, but I just I can't help but think that we as humans need to advocate for the dogs more when we bring them home. Okay. What let's let's talk about what that looks like because I think this also kind of plays into a while ago, this happened with a girl online. She's like a influencer with like rescue dogs, and she fosters dogs all the time. And she came out with a post that she recently adopted. I think it was like a little staffy or a little pit bull or something. And she's in New York. And on like day one or day two, she took the dog out on the street. And then the dog ended up attacking somebody's dog. You know, and she was like, I didn't know any better, you know. But like, let's talk about what bringing home a dog that you don't know looks like. Where do you start? I would always leave a leash on a dog. I always have a leash on in the house. A slip lead. Slip lead specifically, um, because you need to have some control and communicate with this dog about what's allowed and what's not. Maybe it's just jumping on the couch, jumping on you, humping you, doing something like some dominant behaviors that you aren't necessarily dangerous right then, but can lead to being dangerous, just having some control of the dog. So leaving a leash on the dog. I always just do walking drills in my backyard, letting or in front of my apartment or wherever I was, um, walk with the dog. No pressure at all, not trying to pet it, not trying to snuggle it, just walking with the dog, letting them get used to me, understanding that I'm a safe space. Um crating a dog at nighttime, crating the dog during the day. A lot of dogs from the shelter are so overstimulated by the dogs that they were around or the environment that they were in that they need a lot of sleep. The first three days are a lot of sleep, a lot of decompression, a lot of behaviors that maybe you don't like, but they're just working through because they don't know what's going on. Maybe they're barking a lot, whatever it is, but they need at least three days of decompression and just realizing the new life. But I would say feed in the crate, feeding in the crate, not eating your dinner with your dog right next to your feet. Like if you have other dogs in the home, do not separating them, introduce them right away. Yes. And I think that even if they're dog friendly, I have a lot of dog-friendly dogs come in here, but we do a lot of separation at the beginning for both my dogs and for the new foster because it's a big change for both of them. My personal dogs, it's changing the dynamic, having another dog come in. And it's obviously a huge change for the dog from the shelter that, you know, has never been in your house, doesn't know you, doesn't know your dogs. They have no, you have just no communication with that dog at all. They don't know what no means they don't know anything. So um, yeah, not having introducing the dogs at first. And I would say that that is a big reason why a lot of dogs get returned. Yeah. That happened to me a lot, especially when I was in Florida. My clients would be like, Oh, well, you know, my dog is doing so well. We did all this training. Now my dog's no longer reactive, they're doing good in the house, they're listening, they're trained. I'm ready to get another dog. And they just get another dog and then throw them into the house with their dog, and they're like, Oh, they hate each other. They got into a fight. Like, that is crazy. Yeah. There are very few dogs that would be able to handle that. I also remind people a lot that living with a dog and having dog friends is very different because when the dog never leaves, it causes a lot of tension in the relationship sometimes because either your personal dog is used to being an only child, and now there's another dog getting attention and everything's together. A lot of people don't do separate activities with their dog, so they're used to just, you know, being alone and now they have another thing around. Yeah. It's a big change for your dog. And this is something that we do with board and trains. You know, we don't just let the initial the dogs go and greet each other. And that's like a big conversation that I have with a lot of my clients. And even that I had this weekend at the camping trip, um, one of the first questions was, Well, when do we let the dogs play with each other? And that didn't that didn't even cross my mind at all. Because for me, when I have a dog in for a board and train, the first two weeks, you are completely separate from the other dogs. We'll practice neutrality, you guys will hang out in the crate next to each other, you'll hang out on place next to each other, or a tether, or we'll go for, you know, walks, I'll have a dog, Toma will have a dog, you know, group walks like that. But they are, we are not doing play dates or direct interactions until you can show me that you can be neutral around this dog. And especially if it's a dog that you plan on adopting, take your time. Yeah. There's literally no rush. Yes, that's what I was trying to get at. Yeah. Like, go slow, let the dogs acclimate, do separate activities with the dogs, remind your personal dog that they still matter, they're still your dog, you know. Yeah. I think that's space and time. I think we had River for like six months. Yeah. And it wasn't until like the last month that I started introducing him to my dogs. And now he is like doing great with the other dog in his household. You know, he gets along with her, but I really took my time because River was a big dog. If he decides to get in a fight with one of my dogs, like, what am I gonna do? Totally. What am I gonna do? Like, you're gonna murder my dog, you know. So yeah, and it's very I I understand the idea that people don't want to crate and rotate forever, but I do think give them a week, you know? Let them let them acclimate, see how they're doing, go on walks together, like don't immediately put them together, especially bringing a dog into your home with your resident dog there and just letting them rip. Like, yeah, it's not good. And you also get to see how they interact through the crate or through a baby gate, you know, like are they staring each other down? Are they barking? Are they growling? Like, what are they doing? Are they being neutral? Awesome. That is gonna indicate to you that, like, okay, yeah, we're probably ready to introduce them. I think this happens a lot with people who have older dogs and they bring home a puppy or a young dog with a lot of energy, and it really causes a lot of tension in the home. Yeah, because the older dog is constantly having to correct that other dog. Yeah. And it's then also people see that and they're like, My older dog is aggressive. Correct. Yeah, the older dog is aggressive, it's correcting this puppy all the time, and it's like, okay. Yeah, the puppy's just annoying. You need to put it in a crate or tether it or have a leash on it. Right, right. And it's just not fair to the, you know, to your dog, the older dog that has to correct it all the time. People don't know when to intervene and things like that. And so um there's a lot of it causes a lot of issues in their relationship growing up too. And the and the younger dog doesn't learn proper socialization skills.

SPEAKER_00 51:03

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 51:03

Something else that we see, I feel like you see this more, is people don't want a dog, and they get a dog. Like you don't want a dog based on what you're complaining about, totally, you know, like they bark. Yeah. Yeah. Dogs do bark. Dogs bark, bark, like a puppy waking up early. You know, there's a lot of things peeing in the house, like a lot of they require exercise and attention, yeah. And they're not just gonna be a little ornament in your house and like snuggle you when you want, and then just sit there the rest of the day. Yeah, yeah. I'm thinking of the the one of the foster dogs that I have right now. Like they didn't want a dog. Oh yeah. She's so good. Yeah, she's so good. Yeah. And yeah, we get a a variety of people. Some people don't want a dog, and then some people do everything for their dog that just is wrong. It's not the right dog. Yeah, yeah. Bringing it all together back to rescue and well-bred dogs that can happen with either one. So people can get a well-bred dog, but not want to not recognize how much effort it takes to have a dog. And so from my rescue girl point of view, um, I think it's important to be educated. I think just dog education is the most important aspect of all of this, and then of course, regulating backyard breeders. Yeah. I think that's honestly the biggest thing that has to change in order us in order for us to change the number of dogs that are going into shelters. Yeah. You know, like it is so so prevalent, and it's not like this in other countries because breeding is highly regulated, and I think that there should be stricter or more harsh punishment for people who are just backyard breeding dogs. Totally. You know, because that is going to just limit the amount of dogs that are going into the shelters and getting returned because well-bred dogs are not ending up there. But for our current situation, you know, I think it's a combo of that, of like the regulation and making sure that people know what they're getting into whenever they do decide to get a dog and get really clear on what you want your life with the dog to look like. Yeah. Understand that your your life is gonna change in some way, and it's going to, you're gonna have to adapt with the dog and what they need. Yes. And get a trainer. Hire a trainer, hire a trainer. A trainer is just gonna have a lot more experience seeing a lot of different dogs, and we'll be able to tell you kind of a game plan of what to do with the dog in front of you. You know, and I think a lot of times we as dog trainers work with people who are past that, and we get emergency phone calls of help. I adopted this dog and it bit my nephew, or this dog is dragging me down the street, or something bad happened, right? Nothing will get somebody to pick up the phone and call a dog trainer quite like an emergency. Yeah, and they're already halfway out the door, like not really willing to work with the dog anymore because they've gone through some kind of traumatic experience. Yeah. But if you get a dog trainer before problems happen, we can prevent those problems from happening and prevent the dog from getting those bad reps in, especially with like bites and things like that. Because once a dog has bitten somebody, they're a lot more likely to do it again. Yeah. And I I recommend hiring a trainer before bringing home a dog from anywhere, a breeder, a shelter, wherever. Like find a dog that fits what you want with your life, your family. Yeah. If you have kids, it's very important to hire a trainer and say, is this dog safe to be around my two-year-old? You know, you can't control the kids as much as we as we as much as we think we can train your kids. I think there's, you know, kids are gonna be kids, and kids will always come first. So hire a trainer before you get a dog and see what the temperament is. I also recommend fostering dogs. Yeah, see what kind of dog you like. Like I would have never thought I wanted a Malinois. Um, I I had no idea, and obviously I just fell in love with the dog, but foster some dogs, see what works best for you, what kind of dog you like. I had a super old lazy shepherd mix dog that I fostered and I hated it. I was like, you are so boring. Um, and I was like, I need something more than that, you know, and and it, but it helped me. I would have had no idea um without fostering dogs, if you want to go through a rescue at least. Um I highly recommend it so you don't have to commit to a dog that you don't know what the behaviors are.

SPEAKER_00 56:41

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 56:41

I will also kind of add, I think a big reason why so many dogs get dumped to shelters is because of anthropomorphism of our dogs. Yes. And this idea that dogs are just there to accept our love and affection all the time, and that's it. And you can just give them treats and toys and a nice home, and that's it, and they're gonna do great. And that is so, so far from the truth, and a conversation that I've been having a lot recently is just giving people permission to tell their dogs no and to correct their dogs. And I know it's icky, and I know we don't like to talk about it, but a huge part of my job is correcting dogs so that they can stay in homes, you know, and I barely ever bash force-free training. But one of the reasons why I just cannot get behind that agenda is the guilt that they give people for wanting to tell their dog no or correct their dog or telling them that you're gonna ruin their relationship if you do. But then what's the alternative? Yeah. The dog is gonna end up at a shelter because you can't handle the behavior, right? Totally. When it could just take one pop of a prong collar or one tap of an E collar or even just a firm no.

SPEAKER_00 58:09

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 58:10

And that dog understands, okay, I'm not allowed to do this behavior anymore. And that is that is something that I get all the time, especially with my board and trains, with the people that come to our classes. People have a lot of guilt with telling their dogs no, and they are like struggling, they're in tears during class because they don't know how they're gonna keep living with their dog. And we come in and we're like, hey, it's okay, you're allowed to do this. Like, our dogs are very, very tough. And also, I'm real big on communication is clarity, and part of our communication is telling our dogs what we don't want them to do just as much as what we do want them to do. Yeah, and I don't think it has to be as personal as people think it is, it can be very just clear, no, and then you go back to doing what it's like. But that's where like the anthropomorphism comes in, totally, you know, is because like we have some childhood wound where our parents yelled at us and we tell ourselves that we're never gonna be like that, you know. But that's the thing, is it's not emotional, and that's yeah, good dog trainers are good at flipping it. Yeah, you know, yeah, not it's not personal. You can pretend you no, no, no. All right, come on, let's go. Yeah, you know, like you can pretend like it's personal and then immediately get over it. But the issue that people have if they do correct their dog is they linger, they linger there forever, and then the dog's like, what is going on? Why are we being weird? And you know, yeah. I, you know, I mentioned at the beginning Dennis was found in a field and was hit by a shovel or something by somebody. And I did always have that, like, oh, but he was abused, and so like I need to, he's and he's a very sensitive dog. So I maybe am yelling at my other dog and he's like shivering in a corner just because he can feel my emotion very big. And so um, I was always afraid to correct him or do anything that would, I was like, oh, but he trusts me and like this is our relationship. This is gonna ruin our relationship. Yeah, but it really it did change, and I say this because I can empathize with a lot of people. Um, and I that's also why I got into dog training because I feel like I can empathize with a lot of people with the rescue sob story and the hard dog that they don't think they can handle, and the clarity in being able to communicate no, a proper correction, him understanding what I'm asking of him and snapping out of it, making him work through hard situations. Like you don't need to be afraid of that. He'll go into my, he'll like hide his head into people's laps and like he'll be like shivering and he gets like nervous and he'll, you know, he does all these like really cute things. But I know that if I feed into that in certain situations, pet him even, um, he gets nervous and hides his head in me, which is adorable. But I know that I need him to work through that situation away from me so that he can be a more confident dog. And that doesn't mean that I'm never gonna pet him or never gonna snuggle him when he puts his head on my lap. But in certain situations, I know he has to learn to work through that and not just hide with me. And I need to be able to communicate that with him. Like, not saying that I would correct that behavior, but I'm you know, the not feeding into it. And I think he's a good example of a dog that is really, really easy to be soft with because he is just so like baby boy. And he does like he plays into it when you play into it. Totally. You go, oh Denny, and like we all do it, like just to kind of like you know, yeah. Oh, Denny. And he does. He's like, Oh, I'm just a baby, and he's like, Oh, it's just me. Very cute, but I do at the beginning, like, I wish that I knew. Yeah, and I wish that I knew at the beginning how to handle that better because we did, you know, I was just all over the place. I didn't know what to do with him, and um, I think our relationship could be better. I mean, obviously, we you live and you learn, and you do what you can do, but um that is like a huge reason I went into dog training was because I want people to know more than I did when I had it brought him home. And I wish I didn't go six, seven months of like babying him and like not really knowing what to do with being scared of him, all these things, you know, and all it really would have taken is proper communication with him. And you did end up getting a dog trainer. I did, yes. And what was her advice? Um, I did what everybody did. I went through a couple dog trainers. So my first dog trainer that I hired um had him on a front clip harness and told me to have him lay down every time he saw a trigger, which he was triggered by literally everything, like a person running, people walking by, dogs, you know, all the things. I live in a very popular part of San Diego, and so there is triggers all the time, um, which was pretty defeating because I was like, I just don't know what I'm gonna do with this dog if I'm just gonna be laying down the whole time. Also, how are you gonna get him into a down? Yeah, yeah. Um, he was pretty food motivated, but it would last like a second, you know, down, pop back up. And I had no control because I was on a harness and just he didn't know what I was asking him. He just was doing it. Yeah. Um, he kind of has some joy in barking at things. He loves to bark. And so, you know, it was probably a fun game for him to like lay down, bark, lay down, bark, get a treat, you know, it was like it was a behavior loop. Um, and obviously I quickly realized that was like not a solution. Um, and then I found my who ended up being two of my best friends, but Claire and Hallie, and they like changed my life with him. Um, Claire put a wrong on him and he kind of like squealed a little, and I was like, oh no, as everybody does. Um, but he was just he needed that correction and she was like, he can work through this, and that changed her whole life. Yeah, honestly. Um, and then Hallie did a board and train for two weeks with him, and that also changed my life because she had him, he was very reactive with dogs, and I did not know how to have him interact with dogs, and she knew dog how to read dogs better than I did at the time, and um had him out with all the dogs, and she was like, He's great, he's like totally can handle it. He gained so much confidence that way because now we're not hiding from things. He just knew, you know, he he could gain confidence by learning from other dogs. I wasn't so scared anymore. Um so yeah, both of them changed my life, and then I met Meg, who also changed my life. That wasn't that long ago. You were already on the right track with we were all the things we were, yeah, we were getting there, but always learning. And I think that had I known all the things I know now, our relationship would be totally different, which I think is you know why some of my foster dogs are more successful than I originally was with Dennis. Yeah, and now you get to help other dogs be chill around dogs, yeah. That's kind of your thing is the dogs socializing with each other. Yeah, I think there's a lot of value in socializing with other dogs, like they need that in an appropriate amount. Yeah. And my dogs honestly love other dogs, which is really helpful. Um, they're really good teachers. Meg has is incredible at Correcting dogs appropriately and being patient with them. And Dennis is like very, you know, just he is baby boy and he just goes out there and he just doesn't really do much. Well, when also when there's like another fearful dog, he's like, hello. He like yeah, like go up and just kind of like be with them and he reads dogs really well. Yeah. Um, but I would have never known that had I not met the right dog trainers. Um, so I also can empathize with people who have gone through the multiple dog trainers and there's just many bad dog trainers out there. Yeah, or just dog trainers that don't understand the dog that you have. Like it obviously wasn't gonna work to have him in a down every time he saw the. What dog would that work with, Danielle?

unknown 1:06:44

I don't know.

SPEAKER_01 1:06:46

What dog would do well on a front clip harness and putting the dog into a down? You're ruining your obedience, first of all. Yeah. Second, most people could not get their dog into a down in without any distractions, much less when the dog is being reactive. I just remember being like, how am I gonna walk? I was like, I'm trying to go on a hot girl walk and like I'm just gonna be staying in a down this whole time. Um, that's wild. But I feel like I did all the I did a lot of wrong things with him, and so that helped me understand where people are coming from when they bring their dogs home because I get it. Yeah. Any last bits of advice for the people getting dogs or who have rescue dogs? Find a trainer. Find a trainer, find a trainer to help you or understand temperament, body language, do some research before you bring a dog home. Yeah. I will say I think a lot of people are past that, so listening to the podcast, wouldn't you agree? They probably got dogs already, and they're that's why they're here. Okay, that's fair. Yeah. We'll hire a dog trainer. Hire a dog trainer before you bring the next dog home. Before you bring the next dog home. Or if you're struggling with your dog, we got you. Thank you guys so much for joining us this week. Next week, I will tell you all about my weekend getaway and Joshua Tree and some of the takeaways that I got from that. So we'll see you next week. Bye.