The CWB Association Welding Podcast
The CWB Association Welding Podcast
Episode 224 with Evan Ross and Max Ceron
The CWB Association had the privilege to attend the Skills Canada New Brunswick Provincial Competition in Saint John, NB. Join us as we bring you special episodes recorded in person to advocate for careers in skilled trades and technology across the country.
Forget everything you thought you knew about welding careers in Eastern Canada. In this eye-opening conversation with Evan Ross, Welding Instructor at UA Local 213 in Saint John, New Brunswick, we discover why the once-common story of East Coast welders heading west for work has become outdated. Evan takes us behind the scenes of the UA and explores the fascinating challenges of complex welding applications, from nuclear-grade open root welds to exotic materials like titanium and duplex stainless steel.
Tune in for aspiring tradespeople; this episode offers straightforward advice on joining the United Associations (UA).
Ready to see where your welding journey might lead? Subscribe now to hear more inspiring stories from across the industry.
Check out UA Local213
Website: https://ualocal213.ca/
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There is no better time to be a member! The CWB Association membership is new, improved and focused on you. We offer a FREE membership with a full suite of benefits to build your career, stay informed, and support the Canadian welding industry. https://www.cwbgroup.org/association/become-a-member
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All right, I can check. Check, I'm good. So I'm Max Duran. Max Duran, cwb Association Welding Podcast, pod pod podcast. Today we have a really cool guest welding podcast. The show is about to begin.
Speaker 1:Attention, welders in Canada looking for top quality welding supplies look no further than canada welding supply with a vast selection of premium equipment, safety gear and consumables. Cws has got you covered. They offer fast and reliable shipping across the country. And here's the best part all podcast listeners listeners get 10% off any pair of welding gloves. Can you believe that? Use code CWB10 at checkout when placing your next order. Visit CanadaWeldingSupplyca now. Canada Welding Supply your trusted welding supplier. Happy welding. Hello and welcome to another edition of the CWB Association podcast. My name is Max Saron and I am here in St John, new Brunswick for Atlantic Skills Canada competitions. One of the great sponsors and supporters and hirers out here in the East Coast and for this wonderful event is the UA213 Hall, and today I have Evan Ross, who is a welding instructor for the hall. How are you doing, evan? I'm good. How are you? I'm good. So what brings you to NBCC today? Oh well, we've got.
Speaker 3:We've got four computers doing welding and seven in the pipe fitting. I'm just coming out to show our support.
Speaker 1:You're just running the hall, you're just running the show out here.
Speaker 3:Yeah, that's right just showing wearing the logo and trying to get some recruits, maybe.
Speaker 1:So what is it that you do specifically at the hall?
Speaker 3:I'm one of the welding instructors. I also do getting into the safety. So fall protection, confined space, that kind of thing Anything that our members need to get out on the job. Make sure that they have all the all the proper training so they can go right to work.
Speaker 1:Now out here I've been hearing lots about the UA. You know, kind of from all corners and across Canada, you know the unions have different roles in terms of, and even within the UA they have different roles in terms of the industries they support, the job sites they're on your hall seems quite strong in this area. So what are some of the job markets in this area that your your hall, would support?
Speaker 3:Well, you know, st John especially, is a very industrial city. You know, we've got right right out the window here we've got one of the largest one of the largest refineries in North America and we've got a nuclear power plants, a couple different power plants, alt couple different power plants. Pulp mill paper mills. And then you go farther down the coast you get some. There's some fish plants and stuff like that. There's a lot of industry in a fairly small area, so it's a lot of heavy industry. So, that's where our trades really are needed.
Speaker 1:Yeah, it's one of the topics. I, you know, just came from interviewing Adam and he brought that up too. You know the amount of heavy industry and industry in general for a small area. Small population kind of puts you in a difficult spot, Right. I've always looked at how many colleges there is out here for the trades.
Speaker 2:Yeah.
Speaker 1:And how many trades programs there is in the East Coast and there's a lot for the amount of people. There's a lot Right. And coming from the West, because I'm a Westerner, I didn't know that. I thought that you know all these West, all these East Coasters come to the West to work because there's no work, but what I've learned is that there's plenty of work here. It's starting to turn around.
Speaker 3:Yeah. And it's, it's changed quite a bit. Yeah, and all we've our, our jurisdiction alone. We've got a lot of work. There's a lot of major projects coming up. You know there's a a boiler expansion at the the West side.
Speaker 2:I heard about that.
Speaker 3:All the paper here. Mel, I heard about that. There's like a 1.7 million man hours for the pipe fitter Like it's a lot of work coming up in the next few years and we need more young people getting into the industry and taking trades. And because we've got a lot of members retiring as well, the ratio of new people coming in to people going out is starting to get unbalanced pretty quick.
Speaker 1:The lists are getting thin at the top with all the old guys my dad. He was a boiler maker for 50 years. He retired early, he got sick, he got cancer but he had to retire early. But he got calls for like the next 10 years being like are you sure you don't want to come?
Speaker 2:out. Are you sure you don't want to come out?
Speaker 1:Because it's just can't find people, just not enough.
Speaker 3:See, when I first got in I've been a member since 2017 and I was working out of another fab shop before that, right out of school, and that was one of the things they told me when I, when I said I was leaving and joining the UA they said you know, you're going to be. You're only going to work a shutdown here and there. You'll be on unemployment and traveling out west. I've worked steady the entire time, my entire career. I haven't had any low points.
Speaker 1:Yeah, have never been unemployed.
Speaker 3:No, it's. Time's changed a lot in the last few years, so there's a there's a big influx in work right now.
Speaker 1:Yeah, the, you know, there's the old, uh, the pokey trains back in the day.
Speaker 3:Yeah. Doesn't seem to be a thing anymore. It's pretty well by choice now.
Speaker 1:If you're going to.
Speaker 3:If you're going to take time off, it's because you want to. Yeah. You know, if you want to work, if there's work out there.
Speaker 1:So, for the people that are listening to the podcast and are not aware, we have a lot of listeners in the US as well, where unions are not nearly as strong as here in Canada. You know what is it the UA does, what are all the parts of the UA? Because it's not just welding, welding is one piece of the many roles that the UA covers.
Speaker 3:Right. So we're all the pipe trades pipe fitter, steam fitter, plumbers and we've had sprinkler fitters, hvac, gas techs, instrumentation, anything to do with pipe. We deal with it. It's our jurisdiction. So that's a big part of a lot of the heavy industry, especially in even commercial. You know you get into the bigger cities in Toronto, edmonton, stuff like that. You know they have a whole nother jurisdiction for high rise and you know the sprinkler and sprinkler systems and plumbing systems that kind of stuff. It's a huge industry.
Speaker 1:Yeah, Now how do you stay on top of the training for all those different legs of that?
Speaker 3:It's a challenge but you know we've got. The good part about it is that we get. We take our trainers from the job. You know I I just took this position in the new year so I've only been doing it a little while I came right off the job. I've been you know, I've been a welder since 10 years. We really take the on the job training aspect and put it into our into our apprenticeship.
Speaker 2:Yeah, right.
Speaker 3:And we, we have mock-ups at our, our hall. It's, it's a real life scenario, for you know, for pipe racks and pump stations and things like that. You know, we want them to see what they're going to actually experience when they get out on the job, and so there's no, just you can't learn. Want them to see what they're going to actually experience when they get out on the job, and so you can't learn everything from a book in the classroom.
Speaker 1:We'd like to see hands-on training and, for the welders specifically, the welding world that you teach in and when people look at pipe fitters in terms of welders, you know what are some of the things that you would be typically doing. What are the types of welds that a pipe welder in the hall would be doing, say, on the day-to-day?
Speaker 3:Day-to-day it's. You know our bread and butter would be like a. In New Brunswick it's called F3, f4. So 6011, 6010 route, 7018, fill and cap. Most of it's done on a two-inch double X pipe. Coupon sent out for x-ray.
Speaker 1:So double X would be like a SCED 80 or a SCED 160?.
Speaker 3:A little. It's heavier than a 160.
Speaker 1:the next step up, Okay 240, I think, is what it is and uh, you know we.
Speaker 3:there's a lot of different alloys around here, like right now. Another popular one for uh, for the pulp mills especially, is duplex. Right you know we use 2205, 2209. That's a that's a really popular one right now. We've got a same spot. We've got some titanium that they do there, you know they're. They're sending a few, a few of the better guys over that, you know, over.
Speaker 1:And those aren't common. No Things to do, I mean duplex is getting pretty common now. Yeah Right. For for the people who don't know what duplex is, it's a variation of stainless Right Right. So Magnetic.
Speaker 3:You know it's got a lot of a lot of same properties, a lot of high carbon. You've got to. You can't like a 309 or 316 stainless. You got to. You got to treat it way different because it. You got to watch those temperatures, you know it might look, it might turn out looking beautiful, but then they x-ray it and it's, it's garbage on the inside. Yeah.
Speaker 2:Yeah.
Speaker 3:Unless you know unless you someone tells you that that you got to weld it differently too. You wouldn't know, because you can do it you differently too. You wouldn't know because you can do it, you can. You know, you can crank your heat up and just wash over it and make it look really pretty, yeah, but you're not getting any penetration it'll be a sugar cube on the inside and lack of penetration. All through it oh, it's duplex, especially you gotta, you really gotta dip it yeah doing tag.
Speaker 3:You lay wire, you know. You just lay the filler on and wash over with the dig torch. It doesn't work. It's not going to work.
Speaker 1:Well, and the inner inner, inner pass temperatures are so critical when it comes to the duplexes, especially the 2209, because it'll separate out. You know it'll separate out and that's a full cutout Like it's not a.
Speaker 3:There ain't no repair on that. No, you're not just going in, you know, just cutting into a little spot and fixing it.
Speaker 1:No, you're not just grinding that out and tapping it in.
Speaker 3:No, it's all starting fresh.
Speaker 1:Yeah.
Speaker 3:Same with Inconel. We've got, we've had a few more people, the P44s.
Speaker 2:Being sent for.
Speaker 3:Inconel right? You know we had a. We watched a YouTube video the night before and. I said you know you're thinking it'll crack like.
Speaker 1:A cast.
Speaker 3:Almost Right, it'll just split, it welds really nice. You know it's a little dirty, but you think it's the same thing. It looks like it's going really good, and then you just you start your hot pass and it you hear that ting and you know it's all over.
Speaker 1:So, as a trainer, how do you keep your skills up on the new stuff you know? Because you you never know everything right, like I mean, I welded in the stainless world. I was a stainless guy. That was what. That was my bread and butter. I worked in the mining industry. Never enough work for stainless welders, or never too much work. Is that right?
Speaker 2:no, there was always lots of work yeah, for stainless welders in the mines.
Speaker 1:But you know, if someone came up to me and said, oh, you're a great stainless welder, here I have some titanium for you to weld it's, and uh what?
Speaker 3:you know, right, it's. No, I, I like to. You know there's a lot of information out there online. I watch all kinds of videos. You know you get the younger generations coming in saying, oh, I saw this on TikTok last night or whatever. Well, you know you gotta be careful with it's not always true. But you know there's definitely some good information. I pay attention to that and I read up on a lot of the newer technologies and stuff like that and I, I like to. I'm young.
Speaker 1:I still like to weld. I like getting in the booth and trying out different things trying out new stuff. That's usually really what it comes down to is you got to try it, you got to?
Speaker 3:keep at it too. You can't just you know.
Speaker 2:Just wing it Right.
Speaker 3:It's, you know, it's kind of really know all the ins and outs. You gotta, you gotta stay at it. You gotta continue to keep up your skills.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I remember I used to work with this welder. He was an old biker guy and, uh, one of the kids was in in class learning and he said well, I learned welding from my uncle. You know, you get those kids.
Speaker 3:Oh, yeah, yeah, and you know those are the worst ones because, you're gonna have to unteach everything.
Speaker 1:Uncle bob said, or whatever you know, and he's like well, my uncle said it's like riding a bike and uh, and this guy says well, you can ride your dirt bike all day, but I'm not letting you on my harley right, exactly I was like, yeah, that's a good way of putting that because it can be sort of the same, but it ain't right.
Speaker 1:Right, so you know. So you know, for the UA you guys have a very extensive training program, it's you know, I know it's something that you're very proud of. I've been friends with Ray Lemieux. He just retired, but I've been friends with Ray for like 20-some years. He's a great guy and you know the wealth of information that comes from the pipe trades is. It filters down into the other trades, into all of them right.
Speaker 1:Right and I think it happens between all of them. You've got the ironworkers, the boilermakers, the millwrights. Everyone's kind of got their niche, that they work in, that they specialize in. But when it comes to pressure vessels and piping it's going to be a lot of pipe fitter work. When I look at the type of accreditation and testing that the UA has to go through for most of their jobs, it's usually another step above what lots of other places have to go through.
Speaker 3:Yeah, we really work to a high standard. We have a standard for excellence that we adhere to and it's very important to us. We spend a lot of money on training. It's a deduction Every member pays into a training fund. They want to use it, they want to see it go in action.
Speaker 3:They want to see how it go as far as it can right. You know it's their livelihood, they want to, they want to get the most out of it and you know we get a lot of people that are very proud to proud to be ua members and proud to participate in the training. Oh, we've got people coming in stopping down on their days off just walking through the shop, just seeing if they can help out. Like you know, you get it's a. It's a real community that wants to see each other succeed.
Speaker 1:Yeah, and that's something that's, I guess, when you look at kind of the decline of the unions, because there has been kind of the thought that the unions are in decline, not just in Canada, like around the world. There's been kind of a desire to get away from standards and codes, to get away from so much testing and rigorous, because they say it slows down the job, makes the jobs too expensive. Stuff like that I don't buy it.
Speaker 3:No, I don't buy it and I don't see it here either. Especially, you know NBCC. Here you see all of their top students are trying to get a place with us. You know they want, they want to go and do the best they can in their career and they're coming knocking on our doors. You know it's they're not looking to go to somewhere that they're not going to be tested and be you know, live up to a certain codes and standards and, you know, really push yourself to your limits.
Speaker 3:And that's what I really like about the skills competitions is it shows what your limits are and you got to really get pushed through that and see how far you can go.
Speaker 1:And so my favorite time of year- yeah Well, competition breeds excellence, right and uh, competition breeds excellence right. And that's something I think that welders in general take heed to, because we get told that in every welding program, regardless of where you are in Canada, regardless of the hall you're in what type of union, at the end of the day, welding is not something you can skip through.
Speaker 2:No.
Speaker 1:Right, you're not just skipping through this program. You're not just going to fake your way into a welding job and think you're going to have a career.
Speaker 3:That's right, you really got to show your skill. You've got to put the time in, put in the effort. You just try and skip through it. You're not going to make it very far.
Speaker 1:You're not very well there. No, yeah, yeah, it's just not going to work for you. The cooking school down the hall, that's right.
Speaker 3:It's not for you. You don't want to put the time in, put the effort in. You picked the wrong, wrong trade.
Speaker 1:So before your job as a trainer you know you said you just started in January what was it that you were doing with the hall you were on as a welder, or as a.
Speaker 3:I'm a welder, yeah, I, you know I have. I was always trying to get involved and you know, volunteer and different committees and stuff like that. But but the last nine years I guess, I've been working various sites in the in the city. I never I've been lucky I haven't had to travel. You know there's been work here that I can do the last three years. I was uh, I was on the maintenance crew with Point of Pearl, the nuclear power plant here.
Speaker 1:Okay, yeah.
Speaker 3:And the and the sense of the industry around here. That would be the. That's, that's your top. That's about as good as it gets Qualifications there.
Speaker 3:You know we do 14 job tests just to get down there, right? You know they test you on every possible thing that you might run into down there and they want to see that you can do every bit of it with no issues. Right, they really put you to the test. And the same when you're in there doing the job, they there's work somewhere else and there might be one guy come and check on it. There's 10 coming and looking at it there yeah. They really make sure that it's flawless.
Speaker 1:Well, I met, uh, eric dickerson from opg. He's a tig welder for them. I don't know if you ever heard of him or met him, but he's one of the better welders in canada. Like the guy's an incredible guy, I would put him at late 30s now, um and he was showing me some of the job tests that he has to do just to stay on at the power plant you know like a one inch thick titanium full of welds and it's like where would you ever even see that right in the real world?
Speaker 1:but he said I have to test for it because I might have to do it once a year.
Speaker 3:But that once a year they need to have that person. Yeah, they want you trained and able to go in at any time, because they're not you know they're not screwing around- yeah, no, no, it's millions of dollars a second or whatever.
Speaker 1:It's a crazy thing. Oh yeah, yeah.
Speaker 3:One of the hired ones they do here. It's an F4 on two-inch SCED 80. Oh yeah, 70-18 open route. I hate 70-18 open route, Right, but that's a nuclear code Like I mean you can it through that. That's a bend test. You make it through that and you're doing the same coupon with 309 stick.
Speaker 1:Yeah, it's like trying to pull, trying to hold water in a colander.
Speaker 3:That's right, the two real fun ones. And then it's you know, it's like it's a little easier than you do some three, eight tubes and stuff like that, and but they really test you and I love doing it. It was it really challenged you and it tested you to your limit. And then some right.
Speaker 1:I remember when I was working with my skills competitor, before we went to Russia, we got a sample drawing from the world skills and there was an open route 70-18 on three-eighths plate, uh, with a one-eighth gap, and uh, and it was the first time we had ever seen that on a on a skills drawing. And it's because and it depends on the country you do the worlds in but russia's so nuclear heavy, right, they got hundreds of nuclear plants in russia that their nuclear welds had made it into their skills drawing, which I think is great, like I mean, that's part of the industry but, I remember sitting with hundreds of nuclear plants in Russia that their nuclear welds had made it into their skills drawing, which I think is great, like I mean, that's part of the industry.
Speaker 1:But I remember sitting with our competitor, me and the other instructor, steve, and we're like have you ever done an open route 718? I was like no, have you no? So before we even told the student about it, we went to the shop, we stayed after work and we were trying to do it. Be like, well, let's figure it out so we don't look like idiots when we try to tell this kid to do it. Man, it took a few rips, like yeah that's. That's not an easy one.
Speaker 1:I don't even like it was, even when it felt like it looked good it'd be some ugly.
Speaker 3:You chip the slag off and there's nothing there. Yeah, that one. No, that one too, especially when we do it on the two inch SCAD 80, there's no material there, you're. You can only go an inch, and as soon as that keyhole opens, you're done. You're too late, yeah.
Speaker 1:You got a big creep.
Speaker 3:Yeah, If it's running and running good, stop because it's about to go bad. That's you gotta, that's your limit. You gotta stop yeah.
Speaker 1:Stop while it's good, yeah, oh, yeah. Well, let's take a quick break here for our sponsors and then when we get back, I'd like to talk about you. Know how you guys support the skills journey here in in in new Brunswick for your students and with the competition, how's that sound? All right, we'll be right back here with Evan Ross on the CWB Association podcast. Looking for top quality welding machines and accessories, look no further than CannaWeld. Based in Vaughan, ontario, cannaweld designs, assembles and tests premium welding machines right here in Canada. Our products are CSA certified and Ontario made approved, reflecting our unwavering commitment to excellence. Count on us for superior service that's faster and more efficient than market competitors. Whether you're in aerospace, education or any other precision welding industry, cannaweld has the perfect welding solution for you. Visit cannaweldcom today to discover why professionals rely on CannaWeld for their welding needs. Cannaweld where precision meets reliability in welding. Enjoy peace of mind with our four-year warranty on most machines. Conditions do apply.
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Speaker 1:And we are back on the CWB Association podcast. I'm here in St John, new Brunswick, with Evan Ross from UA213. All right, right before the break, we're talking about you know well impossible welds, which are not fun. Like what is it trying to make water stick on a wall? It's not fun. But these are some of the things that are going to be coming down in the future. A lot of it. We're trying to get over it with technology right. So, like when we say no cellulose roots, this is something that might be a little bit hard to swallow Out here in eastern Canada. I actually feel you guys are a little bit ahead of the rest of the country in terms of trying to reduce the amount of cellulose. Stt RMD, like these modified waveform welding machines, aren't such a dirty word out here. How do you feel about those in your hall?
Speaker 3:I mean they aren't, but they're not as common. You know you see them in the fab shops here.
Speaker 1:But we don't use them in the field ever they come from our fab shops.
Speaker 3:They like to use it. You know it's. I like them both. You know sgt rmd. I find that they're a great technology getting them set up and can be, you know, kind of a pain sometimes but, once you have everything set, it's, it makes it a breeze right. It's quick and easy right clean yeah, you're banging out joints in no time. Yeah, the guy in the next booth besides just doing it all, tig still and you're flying them off yeah, there's not even a comparison, really yeah but we don't have as much fab shop.
Speaker 2:Yeah. Work here In-house piping work, yeah Right.
Speaker 3:You know, you see that more Ontario, quebec we just don't have. A lot of our work is maintenance and you know actual installation. On-site work. So we still do see a lot of the older style. You know the refiner here especially, it's all. They're just starting to move to 6010. It was 6011 for years and you know, you see that now that's an old farm rod.
Speaker 1:What are you doing with that?
Speaker 3:Oh, that's what we use. That's that's all we got. That's what we learned on New Brunswick especially. We have our our qualified ticket F3, f4 qualified. You need that in order to get any more specialty tickets. Right Before it was the F3 or F4, it was just an F4. Okay.
Speaker 1:Right.
Speaker 3:So a lot of the older guys here, you know that's that's what they, that's how they grew up on was 70, 18 open route. So yeah. You see, a lot of welders travel from St John or New Brunswick alone. East Coast travel out and they they shine a lot because we put out some really good welders here.
Speaker 1:That's a tough one yeah.
Speaker 3:We do a lot of different stuff.
Speaker 1:You don't see, we might be stuck in the old ways some sometimes, well, I don't know, like out West we're pretty old school and it frustrates me because it's still it's 60, 10 everywhere, like it's 60, 10 everywhere and it's, I try to tell you know my business colleagues, people, I work with industry in general, especially now with my job at CWB. I see lots of what's happening in the world and I'm just, like you know, cautionary tale. We got to start start getting away from the 60-10 because it ain't going to be here much in 10 years, because metallurgically it's not great, right, and maybe it was good enough for oil, maybe it was good enough for tanks, but once we get to hydrogen, no way is that going to be?
Speaker 1:anywhere on the radar.
Speaker 3:No, you know you got to start evolving. Take it to the future, right? Yeah, you know, especially TIG, tig roots you can do now it's. There's no comparison with anything. You know you're not getting any contamination inside the joint, you know there's no slag or nothing that's getting in there and you know it's going down the line once it's running and it's faster now because you got great new orbital setups.
Speaker 1:You got hot feed wire setups. A tip-tig.
Speaker 3:That's a really good one. I'd love to see that. Have you played with one? I've played with it, but we're trying to get some contractors here, but they don't seem to want to bite.
Speaker 1:I got a buddy who can help you. Have you met?
Speaker 3:Juvie no, but they're a fun machine yeah, they are.
Speaker 1:Yeah, now for, for you guys here with skills, what are you training them for? Because a lot of what they're doing here they're going to be these are mainly structural welds. On most of these things there's one pressure vessel, but 90 of the welds are going to be doing are structural aluminum, structural stainless structural carbon with one carbon pressure. You know, do you have to step outside of your normal box to train that? I mean, we do.
Speaker 3:But then again, you know we're doing, we still do some structural stuff. You know we do pipe shoes and hangers and all that kind of stuff. We get apprentices coming in now that you know they kind of complain. I just, I want to be a TIG welder, I want to.
Speaker 2:I want to do the nice, pretty stuff.
Speaker 3:It's like, well, you got to do the dirty stuff too. You know you got to be able to do everything. You're going to crawl in underneath there and weld shoes and stuff like that. You know you still have to be. Just because we're the pipe fitters, you know you have to be able to do a little bit of everything, right.
Speaker 1:Yeah, and you're more valuable. Right, you're more valuable if you can do it all.
Speaker 3:Yeah, you walk into a job saying you know, I'm just no, I'm just here for for Tegwald, and you're not going to be sitting there very long. You're out there, you know someone throws something at you and you're you're not scared, you jump in and do it.
Speaker 1:Yeah.
Speaker 3:That's going to keep you working.
Speaker 1:And even going to the other side of not scared, confident, right, you're like oh yeah, I can do that.
Speaker 3:Yeah, you don't even think about it. That's right, your hand goes up. Hey, who wants to do that? I'll do it.
Speaker 1:You know I'll get in there. You know, right Now I know that I was just talking to some students outside and they're like, oh, you're with CWB. We heard about your welding. I was like, yeah, yeah, you know. And they're like, well, we don't need any welding tickets as millwrights. And I was like, well, you know, a millwright with a couple CWBs goes a long way.
Speaker 1:Yeah, right Because like you said, you got to be available to work and in this world that means certs Right Right mean certs right right, same with you know we're talking f3, f4 is f6, f5. We're talking p44, we're talking about these things. Those are all certs right, not just numbers we make out of the air, right they're. They give you the ability to do more work that's right.
Speaker 3:you know, especially around here, the better welders are the ones that if the contractor comes in and says you know, we've got this job coming up, we've got to train some people on you know some titanium or duplex or anything like that, if you're, you know second guessing it, if you even look like you're going to second guess it, they're going to go to the next person. They're not going to waste the time and money to get you trained and risk screwing up something on the job.
Speaker 1:I mean titanium's crazy expensive.
Speaker 3:Oh it's insane, it's insane.
Speaker 1:Well, even stainless has gotten so expensive now.
Speaker 3:Oh yeah, Like I mean Everything now you get a box of filler on your like.
Speaker 1:Your mouth hurts.
Speaker 3:Oh yeah. Well, we had to order two of a titanium filler a couple of weeks ago. It was a thousand dollars.
Speaker 1:Yeah, and there's nine rods. It's not that bad, but it's pretty close.
Speaker 3:Might as well be. Yeah. And then we had a student that I beveled up with a whole bunch of coupons and had him in a cabinet and he went and grabbed one thinking it was stainless coupon, it was titanium and he couldn't figure out what was going on.
Speaker 2:Why it wasn't welding right, why isn't it?
Speaker 1:melting into it what was going on. Why it wasn't welding right.
Speaker 3:Why isn't it melting into it? Should I be cleaning this different? Well, you could start with the right coupon, so you just wrecked about $600.
Speaker 1:Now a lot of people don't understand how to get into unions. You know, is it as easy as just walking in the front door of your local hall and saying I want to get a job? Because I remember when it used to be tricky, like very tricky, and my dad was a Boilermaker, I could never get in the Boilermakers, even with my dad signing, because it was there had to be the right time, there had to be work, they have to watch the members. And I remember getting really frustrated because I was welding for a long time and my dad would be like, come and join the Boilermakers and you know he was a member. But they were like, no, we're not taking any new hires, Right, but I feel like that was 30 years ago. Maybe things are different now.
Speaker 3:Times are changing now. You know we've got a lot of members that are retiring no-transcript. You know we pass out cards and things like that, and especially when it comes time to work terms and stuff like you know, co-op programs in high school. We take as many as we can to ensure that you know they're getting, they're get the right impression, that you know this is a good spot. This is, this is what we offer.
Speaker 1:That's really interesting. You bring that up because I've actually been in other provinces. Fact that I've had a hall say that we don't take co-op students because of liability issues and stuff like that.
Speaker 3:Right, no, I. I was in co-op program when I came through and I went to one of the. I got in at one of the fab shops here in town, one of the Indian pipe fitter shops, and it was hard to get in then. You know, you really had to know somebody, but my father and my uncle and my grandfather are all in the industry.
Speaker 3:I had a little bit of a helping hand to get in to get a co-op placement, but but being in the shop I wasn't allowed to touch anything that they were touching, you know.
Speaker 1:I wasn't a. I wasn't a union member, so I wasn't, I couldn't but I You're not laying any real welds on anything, no, but.
Speaker 3:I was right there, standing over their shoulders, watching and learning every single thing I could. And, you know, for that 13 weeks or whatever it was, I was there. Yeah, I learned everything I could. I came out of that. I was 16 years old. I came out of that with my F3 plate pressure ticket. Yeah, and they really helped me along and pushed me to keep going with it.
Speaker 1:Keep going, yeah.
Speaker 3:Yeah, no, they were very helpful. And you know now our hall alone we take anywhere from, you know, five to 10 pipe fitters, welders, any, any students looking for a placement. We try and take everybody we can to really get them interested and show them, teach them what we can, to try and hang on to them. You know, because we want that future generation coming to us. Yeah, yeah.
Speaker 1:If, if there's someone listening to this podcast and they're in the area you know they're out here in the East Coast and they're interested about joining a hall. What's the easiest way to do that? How do how do you get in?
Speaker 3:Show up with a resume at the at the door, drop your resume off. We come in at our hall here. We, if you're a welder, we'll come in. We'll do an assessment on you. You know, if, if not right that minute, the next day To show up with boots and a helmet.
Speaker 3:Show up ready to work and you know if there's a spot and there's, that could be your chance to get in right away. You know there's. There's lots of work coming up, lots of work ongoing right now, especially, you know, anyone with a red seal and status. We're always looking.
Speaker 1:Times are different now than they were 20, 30 years ago. I remember going to work on permits back in the day. I don't know if they still have permits anymore, but I'd go work on permits. I had my Red Seal in welding but I wasn't in the hall but they were so short up that they would just put out a call out for Red Seal welders.
Speaker 3:Right.
Speaker 1:And so I would just go work in, permit I Right, and so I would just go work a permanent. I'm not a paying member, so you're not same tier right.
Speaker 1:Right, kind of like last in, first out. But you know, for a shutdown I didn't mind. But I remember it was tricky back then, like I'd have a red seal and some job sites would be like, okay, well, you're a red seal welder, but you're not a red seal pipe fitter, so you only get a second year rate or third year rate. I'd negotiate that out, right, Does that stuff still kind of work that?
Speaker 3:way Not, not in our, in our province. We know we we have a list for every separate trade. You don't you don't have to be dual ticketed or anything like that. But I know especially welders right now. We, you need them, we, we need welders, we need people taking welding, you know, but we want we want the best yeah. We, we don't want bucket welders, but we want we want them to be good.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I welded buckets for a while. What's wrong with bucket welding? So did I.
Speaker 3:It's a good, it's a good spot to start. Yeah no-transcript the first time, and that's what we want for for the future and what's for your future?
Speaker 1:You know, what do you see for yourself? You just stepped into this new role. I'm sure this is still a bit of a learning curve.
Speaker 3:It is. It's a change for sure. You know I'm used to. You're off the tools now, I'm off the tools, but I'd still, you know I I like getting right in the booths with the with anyone there.
Speaker 1:You have to, you know.
Speaker 3:You know I I really enjoy it. I, you know I have the passion for it. I've always enjoyed, you know. You know things change but we'll see.
Speaker 1:We'll see how the future Climbing a big ladder. The UA's got a long ladder, oh it does.
Speaker 3:Yeah, you know, I'm at the bottom right now. We'll see.
Speaker 1:And if you had the opportunity to work out the province or leave the province? It sounds like you really love it out here.
Speaker 3:I love it here. You know all my family's here. I'm lucky that I get to be home every night and you know, if I needed to, I would obviously. But no, I haven't had to.
Speaker 2:You're not looking for it.
Speaker 3:I haven't had to. I've worked, I've had a steady job the whole time I've been in the UA. Mm-hmm, okay, you know it's been been. Some people say that it's not always like that, but from what I've seen, it is yeah, there's lots of work. You have a couple weeks off here and there, but it's it could.
Speaker 1:It's needed a lot it's interesting because I've had, you know, some people. It's all perspective. I've had some people say that to me. Like well, welding, you know how do you deal with layoffs or how do you deal with this and that, and it's like you know. I have been laid off a few times in my life. It's part of the industry, but I, you know, one time I got laid off I chose to take, you know, the summer off because it was like you know get laid off in May, it's kind of perfect timing for some camping right.
Speaker 3:Yeah, that's right.
Speaker 1:But then, on the other hand, is if I really wanted to get back to work the next day.
Speaker 3:I could have Right.
Speaker 1:Right, I could have. I could have gone out there and hounded and banged some doors and done it because, realistically, I've never been unemployed by choice.
Speaker 3:You know what?
Speaker 1:I mean, it's always been opportunities around.
Speaker 3:Yeah, you want to take a little break? Yeah, it's the same thing. Now you know. If you want to work, you're going to be work. Yeah, If it's not here, if we are a little slow here, there's all kinds of opportunities in Ontario. Get them at. There's been a lot of our members out there the last few years, you know, and they would.
Speaker 1:They're taking everybody.
Speaker 3:Oh yeah, and they'd love to go back too, that's you know it seems to be a pretty good spot.
Speaker 1:Yeah, big too, that's you know, it seems to be a pretty good spot.
Speaker 1:yeah, big project big money yeah, big money, big project great scenery yeah, I've seen some of the the travel cards co-op for that poof. I've seen a stainless uh 22 for like duplex welding like 100 just under 100 bucks an hour yeah oh yeah, if to be young, again to be young, I would have been all over that, oh, exactly. I'm too old for cap life now, though. All right, so for the rest of the week here, are you going to be doing any judging, or just here supporting your competitors?
Speaker 3:I'm just here supporting this week. You know, I competed back in my time.
Speaker 2:Did you? Yeah, how'd you do?
Speaker 3:Skills Canada. I did the nationals and I got third place at that, and you Skills Canada. I did the nationals and I got third place at that. And then I went on to do the UA. We have our own skills competition. I won the nationals for that and I went and represented Canada.
Speaker 1:In the US.
Speaker 3:In the US and Ann Arbor, michigan. And how'd you do there? They don't tell you what the what the score the final scores are.
Speaker 1:I didn't win, you just weren't first.
Speaker 3:No, you just weren't first. No, I wasn't first, but you did. All right, I did. I think I held my own. You know, it was a lot. Yeah, that was a big competition.
Speaker 1:I've been invited to the UA competition in the US a couple times and I've never gone. I really should put it on my calendar to go and check it out.
Speaker 3:It's a sight to see they really put you to the test on everything you know down. It states a lot Our members down there you know there's not a lot of standalone welders. They're all, they're all pipefitters with welding tickets. Yeah, so you were. You were doing the whole thing from scratch yourself.
Speaker 2:You know you're cutting, Cutting and beveling with a torch and doing tubing and like oh there's a whole copper project, black steel, everything, oh everything.
Speaker 3:You know. Cutting laterals, you know it was, but it was a great experience. You know. I encourage anybody to at least try. You know, try at your provincial level. It's a great experience. You get to meet a lot of people, you know. You challenge yourself and you never know you could. You'd go to the next surprise yourself, right, you know when I first went. I I went when I was a first year apprentice, you know. I came in third at the provincial level and I said, you know, I'm getting it next year, you know I put the work in.
Speaker 3:I was working night shift and I'd go. I'd leave the refinery night shift and drive right down to the hall and wait for the door to open, go in and practice for a few hours and then go home and sleep for a few hours.
Speaker 1:Yeah.
Speaker 3:I wanted to win that one. That was it's. It's really fun. I I encouraged everybody to to try it.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I was talking to the kids this morning Well, I shouldn't say kids or adults, but you know talking to the students about this experience and you know I got to mentor a welder and we got to go to Russia for world skills. He got ninth in the world and he won nationals twice here in Canada, adam Sebastian.
Speaker 3:Yeah, I met him when I was. He was walking around when I did the nationals.
Speaker 1:Yeah, so I was his mentor. I was his teacher well, me and Steve. I was his mentor. I was his teacher Well, me and Steve. And once he got past provincials and kind of realized what it would take to get to nationals, it was a whole nother game. It was like well we actually knocked on every door in the country and got money for him so that he could take a year off or eight months off. So all he was doing 10 hours a day.
Speaker 3:You're dedicated, that's it.
Speaker 1:Right, that's the only way you can compete in nationals. There's no like. I mean it's good to just put in the extra time after work and stuff, but when you get to that international level, they aren't working.
Speaker 3:That's a whole nother world.
Speaker 1:It's a whole nother game, and I do at this point. Everyone should just compete. I actually brought that up. Why doesn't everyone just compete? Maybe you don't even want to, but just do it. You might surprise yourself and if you don't do, well, so what you try. But at least it was an experience to see what it was about. Right, I get that there's time limitations and money and funding, blah, blah, blah, but I feel like it's just such a great experience for anyone to try On the other side of the fence. If you're an instructor or a seasoned, older welder or you're just in the industry, you should attend these things. You should come in and see what the kids are doing. You should see the competition.
Speaker 3:And what?
Speaker 1:they're putting themselves through. You should see what they're putting themselves through for really just themselves, cause there's no cash on the table or no, there's no guaranteed jobs on the table.
Speaker 3:Bragging rights, really, that's right. That's all it is.
Speaker 1:Right, but, like I mean, you know these kids and that's why I said to them this morning I'm like everyone that's in this room is guaranteed a great job Cause if you already stuck your neck out this far for just bragging rights, you're going to do just fine in this industry.
Speaker 3:Right. You're showing that dedication and the pride that you have in that and you know employers see that.
Speaker 1:They do, they do and you're going to all get cherry picked. You know, the one question came up and it was like you know, make sure you put this on your resume. And it's like, oh, what if we don't win? That don't matter.
Speaker 3:Oh, you still try. You just put it on your resume. That matters, that's a big thing. You still participated in it and put yourself out there.
Speaker 1:Well, this has been a great interview, man. This has been fantastic and I hope everyone learned a little bit about the UA today and what's going on out here in the East Coast. Any last minute instructions for anyone if they want to join the hall or how do they reach out to get information?
Speaker 3:Just, reach out. We have the websites, uaorg, or just show up at the hall.
Speaker 1:Yeah, it is actually that easy it is. I have just walked into a hall and gone.
Speaker 3:You walk in, you know doors are open.
Speaker 1:Yeah, Awesome man. Well, thanks a lot and I really appreciate what you're doing here and what the hall's doing for the kids.
Speaker 3:Thank you.
Speaker 1:Awesome and for all the people that have been following along, there's another great interview here with the UA, who are great supporters out here. It's been a fantastic day of podcasts and of seeing the competitions go down. Tomorrow's another whole day with high school students, which then you get to see the real fear in their eyes. But we'll be here for them and I really, really appreciate it and you taking the time. Thank you, all right, catch you at the next episode. We hope you enjoyed the show.
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