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Stand Tall & Own It
Something shifted. You can feel it. You just can't name it yet.
Stand Tall & Own It is for women in the second half of life who are high-functioning on the outside and quietly disoriented on the inside. You built your life inside systems you trusted completely — until you realized you couldn't tell what was actually yours from what you'd just learned to navigate well.
Host Andrea Johnson doesn't offer formulas. She offers honest thinking, sharp observation, and the kind of conversation that makes you pull over and sit in your driveway.
This is where the real work starts.
Stand Tall & Own It
Episode 104 - Lose the Chaos, with Tabatha Perry
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Tabatha Perry is the ultimate go to person for the woman who wants to get her daily life on track. With over 15 years of experience in the criminal justice system and a master's in social work, Tabatha is a Life Coach who helps women find their direction. She helps women understand that creating simple and small edits in their own daily lives can help you thrive personally and professionally. Tabatha believes that everyone has a story and has value. Everyone. And she wants THEM to see that, too. That’s right, that means you too.
Topics discussed in this episode:
Leadership Principle:
Just Show Up - You may not know what to say or how to do it, and you don't feel equipped - just show up. It makes the biggest impact.
Habits:
- Weekly Planning
- Schedule “Jammy Days”
- Invite other couples to schedule “dates” via calendar link
Green Flags:
- Be willing to try something even if it might fail?
- Keep showing up.
Advice:
- Write it down! You’re more likely to do it, and you’ll remind yourself.
- Make a statement of ‘I AM”
- Don’t forget what inspired you to start.
Where to find Tabatha
Website: Tabatha Perry Life Coach
Podcast: Tabatha Perry Life Coach
Facebook: Tabatha Perry, LifeCoach
Instagram: @tabathaperrylifecoach
LinkedIn: Tabatha Perry
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You're listening to Intentional Optimist, the podcast for unconventional leaders, where you'll find inspiration, learn to discover and develop your own strengths, and careful inspiring women just like you who are making a difference in their community. Who knows? You just might find yourself stepping up as the next unconventional leader right where you are. I'm your host, Andrea Johnson, the original intentional optimist. Welcome to episode 104. Do you feel like you're lost in the chaos of your life? Maybe nobody else sees it because you have every single one of those plates spinning just perfectly. But deep down, you know. You know which plate just might fall first. You know where you've lost yourself in making sure that everything is working for everyone and everything else. Well, my new friend, Tabitha Perry, has your number and your solution. She specializes in helping non-9 to fivers make small edits, she calls them, one step at a time and eliminate the chaos by bringing order to their lives. So if you need a little inspiration, encouragement, and even a couple of tips on the first small edits to make for yourself, this conversation is for you. Sit back and relax because what is evident from the beginning is that Tabitha Perry cares about you. Here's my conversation with Tabitha. Hey there, Tabitha. Welcome to the show. Thank you so much for having me, Andrea. I'm excited you're here. We were kind of chatting just a little bit before we hit record about how we're similar yet different. Right? Um, I came out of the corporate world, out of the nine to five world, and I am very much into entrepreneurship. And so I tend to work with corporate women and entrepreneurs. You came out of the nine to five world, but you did that in a way that gives you a better insight to work with those who did not go into entrepreneurship. Tell us a little bit about what makes you unique and kind of who you work for and what work with. Excuse me. Not well, I don't know.
SPEAKER_00If you serve people, I mean it could be a little bit of both. Yeah. Totally, totally. Yeah. So I always like to start out when I introduce myself is that I am Tabitha and I am a strong, courageous, bold, and consistent child of God. So I feel like right.
SPEAKER_01Yes.
SPEAKER_00Yes, right. I feel like so often I could say I'm like a wife and I'm a mom and I'm a runner and like all the things. But I really like to kind of claim some, you know, the boldness, the courageousness. However, I'm not saying I'm these things all the time. These are things that I'm, you know, working towards and like really want to define who Tabitha is. So that's just kind of a little summary of my personal contract. Um, but yeah, so I uh started out as a social worker and you know worked for the county, worked for the state, worked this nine to five job and had decided that I was going to stay home with my babies. Like that was like the ideal. Like when you're a Christian woman, you're like, that's what you do. You give up your career and you stay home. It's this unspoken thing. Well, then I found out um within like a week of staying home, like, oh my gosh, this is not what I thought it was gonna be like. Like I thought I was gonna find so much more meaning, but I realized that God had created me to um help women to do bigger things as well as be a mom. It's not an or. It was like I wanted to create this hybrid life of being a mom, being a great wife, but also using the skills and talents that I was um given. So all of that has kind of transpired to becoming a life coach and working with a non-nine to fiver. So that could be the stay-at-home mom, that could be the entrepreneur, that could be the financial advisor, the realtor. You could be attached to a system or have created your own system. But the whole point is that many of us women, we can feel really overwhelmed with expectations we put on ourselves and our schedules. And so being able to simplify it and to create small little edits in our life so we can step into our fullest potential is where it's at.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, it's like it's as if we're two sides of a coin in many ways, right? Because I hear you talk about the courage and the boldness and knowing because I fell into corporate life. I didn't seek it, I didn't get a degree in order. Well, I sort of did, but not really. I mean, I got a music business degree, but it was a business administration. And I didn't go looking for a career. I just like you was looking for the wife and the mom. And that was the unwritten rule in the community, and it was the unwritten uh goal of every woman that I knew. And I didn't achieve that at first. It took me a while. And so for me, when I developed my career, it wasn't something on purpose. It was always, well, I'm doing this until I can be a wife and a mom. And then I ended up not being able to have children and um adopting. And so my story became very different than I expected. And to then think, well, I was, I mean, as soon as we adopted my son, I was all over myself about I need to stay home, I need to stay home. And I really just tortured myself and had a really wise woman sit me down in one of my jobs here where I am now. And she said, Let me tell you something. At the age of two, they don't need you quite as bad as they do at home when they're in middle school. And she said, Give yourself permission to let him develop a little bit, because when, and then maybe by the time he's in middle school, you'll be able to transition into a different role where you can be more present. And that has been so true. But I was not the one who left the job. I kept thinking I was going to leave the job to take care of my baby, but it didn't work out that way. That was not the plan that God had for us at all. And so it just um it's so interesting to hear you say, and this hybrid life, yes, that's it. That's it. So um tell me how you got there. Give us your story about why did you become a social worker? Um, I I have here that you worked in the prison system. That's very different. Tell us a little bit about that before we get into what how you became who you are.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, I do just want to touch on the point where this woman kind of stepped in your life and just affirmed you for where you're at. And I just feel like it's so important for the listeners to understand, and for women in general, to know that you are not behind. Like you are exactly where you need to be. You do not feel like you should have a different life or all these things. Like just know that what you're doing right now is just fine if you want to make decisions that differ down the road, absolutely. But I think so many times we put this pressure on ourselves that like what we're doing isn't enough right now, when really it's like this is just the season and eventually you can figure it out. Um, and just to give kind of ours ourselves that confidence that we can eventually do that. So I just love that that woman affirmed that.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, and that we can all be that woman to somebody else too, right? And that because you um work with other women. And so for me, it's like I love to say be the role model for the next generation. And that means be the mentor and be the one who speaks into their lives. And so now I, you know, at I'm gonna be 56 this month, being able to turn around and say to a younger woman, it's all gonna be okay. It really is, even if it's a decision not necessarily to stay home with children, but maybe not to have children, maybe, you know, whatever that decision is. And I love that you said it's not just the stay-at-home mom, it's all these different non-traditional, because that's what we're about here as unconventional leaders. So tell us tell us your unconventional story.
SPEAKER_00Sure. So um I was born and raised in Juneau, Alaska. And the fun fact about Juneau, Alaska is that it is um, you can't drive in or out. You can only take a plane or a boat. So it can feel very isolating to like, and you could feel stuck there. So I was an only kid and felt a lot of the times like I was just really lonely. Like I had friends and stuff, but I felt like super lonely. But when I was 10, I accepted Christ into my heart and I felt like I just wanted that friend, and he was gonna always be with me. And that's when I started my leadership journey of going to youth group and then starting to kind of lead younger girls. Um, I think I was like 14, because I think my mom still had to like drop me off at the church so I could like help lead like middle school youth group. And I really love this idea of just encouraging girls at this time that were just a few years behind me, that like everything was gonna be okay. Like what they're going through is like completely normal. Um, so fast forward, I was like this goody two shoe girl, like very type A, again, like only child, like perfectionist. And then um enter in kind of a harder part of my story of um a neighbor took um advantage of me at 16. And so that really kind of changed my perspective of myself as well as my ability to lead other girls, because I was involved in this um what I thought was a relationship for several years and it warped my perception of my value and my abilities. And so it's taken, you know, several, it took several years and lots of therapy to kind of work through and be like, no, I still have a lot to offer, even if my life kind of took a, you know, a turn that I wasn't expecting. And so I got into social work because I knew that people's choices did not determine who they were, that who they were was created special and unique. And again, like it didn't matter what had happened to them or what they did, that they were still unique and created with a purpose. And so I started working in probation and parole when I was 20 years old, which I just can't even imagine like what those like offenders, not offenders, the the people that came out of jail. I don't like to label them, like they they had to report to me and tell me if they were like meeting all their conditions of release and like how funny that was. So fast forward, I've worked in juvenile detention centers and worked in uh county jails as a case manager. And as a social worker, I just have the heart of again like seeing women, but seeing people in general that are often ignored and overlooked that may feel lonely. Cause again, kind of goes back to my own story of feeling lonely and kind of trapped and not really having a lot of say in my life at times. Um, so when I got married and we had talked about like I'm gonna stay home once we have children, and then that happened. I was like, holy cow, like this is really good, this isn't gonna work. So at that point, we knew that we were gonna be moving at some point. And so I didn't want to get a job and like the flexibility. So I started volunteering with teen moms because I could have been a teen mom, but I wanted to be able to love on those teen mamas and then was able to actually find other um teen mom organizations when I moved to Texas from Alaska and we just had an amazing opportunity to stay on with my kids, but also volunteer and being a leadership um like spot. So I was a leading at my home, I was leading in my volunteer opportunities, and I was leading in my church. And when you're a true leader, you it permeates every aspect of your life. You're not just a leader at work, like it is throughout your life. So fast forward, I realized I had completely lost myself. Like I was still volunteering, I was doing all the things, but my mother-in-law had asked me where I wanted to go to lunch for my birthday, and I couldn't answer her. All I could think of was Chick-fil-A for my kids or my husband's favorite restaurant. And that's kind of what started my But how common is that? It's so common. Like I and I want the listeners to think about like if someone were to ask you, where do you want to go to eat? Like, have like figure out a place you want. Like that's like the first step, right? Without apologizing.
SPEAKER_01Without apologizing because I throw it out there because I'm a prima donna and it's like I just have to stop. I just like Mexican food, right? And I don't like they this food. I like this food, and it's okay to just do that, right?
SPEAKER_00Yeah, yeah. Absolutely. You you are allowed to have likes and dislikes.
SPEAKER_01Yes.
SPEAKER_00And someone does not have to agree with you, and that is okay too.
SPEAKER_01And we can compromise, right? If they don't like Mexican food and I don't like Chinese, will Italian work, right?
SPEAKER_00You know, exactly. And that's what we can do in all areas of our lives, right? Is we have to be able to identify what it is that we like. And so I went on this journey to figure out what do I like? You know, I was pouring myself in my volunteering, I was pouring myself into my church, into my family, but what did I really need? And so that's when I started to work towards um being a life coach and really figuring out how that actually all tied in with my social work roots of being a counselor and a therapist and and being able to kind of take those skills and really help women figure out where they are and then where they want to get and then help them in that journey.
SPEAKER_01Oh, that's great. Um so oh gosh, a couple of things in there. Um, just like we kind of touched on the being willing to have an opinion, being it to have likes and dislikes, and to not find our worth in that one phrase you said. We are not our choices, right? It's just we are we are not the choices that we make. The choices that we make are just things that happen. Um, we are created with this unique inherent value that has fingerprints all over it and is beautiful and it's special, right? You are a special person with a specific uh set of skills and and and abilities and strengths that you then give and serve uh others with. And um, so when you uh when you start working with a uh a woman who comes to you, um, do you find that most of them, I mean, because I've been in that position where I didn't know where I wanted to go to eat either, because I just didn't want to have a conversation, right? It was just like I was so, you said you had kind of lost yourself. And I've been depressed to the place where I couldn't make a decision, but I've also been to a place where it's like, I don't want to argue with the 13-year-old kid or the grumpy husband. So there are and so you know, those kind of things are outliers, but at some point we we do need to be okay with who we are and saying what we like, excuse me, what we like. And um, so when you start working with women, do you find that they fall into that category of either they don't know themselves yet, or they're what is the biggest thing that they come to you with? What brings them to you initially?
SPEAKER_00Yeah, so a lot of it has to do like there's some type of chaos in their life and they're wanting to create order. And so trying to go right down to the basis, like the foundation of like who they are, because those things, the chaos in our life are really just symptoms of choices that we've made. And our choices are representative of our feelings and our thoughts. So I really start with who they are. So we talk about their values, their beliefs, and their strengths. And those are kind of the three elements of really digging into that. And it's amazing, like many of us haven't sat down to be like, what are my beliefs about myself? What are my strengths? You know, and like what do I really value? And what's been a theme throughout my life that's really stood out? And so that's that's usually where I start.
SPEAKER_01I think that's uh that's spot on. That's just really important to know. Um, it's very similar to the way I start working with women. Um, I am a disk consultant, so I start with disc, which is very simple and is very, but it's all about communication and leadership. And I work with values, we talk about core values. And I'm so glad that you distinguish between the values and beliefs because so many people think, well, I value family and I value this. Like those are things that you believe strongly. But um, I like that you sit down and say, not just what are your beliefs about, you know, because people then they want to talk about their religious beliefs or their political beliefs, or you know, what are your beliefs about yourself? I think that's really important. Um, where do you get the biggest pushback? Do you think? Is like where do where are the biggest breakthroughs that that come for women?
SPEAKER_00I really think just acknowledging that whatever belief they have about themselves is okay, that it's not too high and it's not too low. So many of us um we don't like to talk well about ourselves because we could think of it as conceited. And so really helping them push through those barriers of like, no, you can say that you're awesome. You can say that you believe that you deserve better than what life is right now. You can, you know, really lean into that. So I really think that helping um women believe that they can, they do not have to stay in this chaos in their life and that they have value and they have the ability and strengths to work themselves through that so they can have more of a peaceful life. It's it's been really, it's been really powerful to see.
SPEAKER_01It sounds powerful because who among us doesn't have some chaos?
SPEAKER_00Um, right.
SPEAKER_01You know, I pick a word for the year every year, and I want to say three years in a row, my word was simplify. And you know, that started easy with things that you could visualize, right? Declutter my house. Um, you know, Marie Kondo, the whole thing. Um declutter my closet, uh, declutter my inbox, you know, it's like, but then it became well, why do I think I have to do all these things? And so simplify, simplify, simplify. And I noticed that that's kind of your signature thing, is that you talk about simplifying everything. And um I'm very interested in getting down to just a couple of your main principles, which the way you said, I just want to help people make small edits because big edits can be really hard, can't they? They can be just big chunks, can be really hard.
SPEAKER_00Yeah. So, you know, I've been working with people since I was 20, just helping them, you know, from the chaos that they're living in to create order. And one of the biggest pushbacks, I guess also kind of goes to your previous question, is when you talk about changing, it could feel really overwhelming and complex and scary and then paralyzing. And then you don't want to necessarily make that step forward. However, I found that when we can change our language, just kind of like how we can reframe our thoughts, we can break through a little bit easier. And so by creating these edits in our life, these small edits, it seems a little bit more feasible, not so scary. You know, it's more simplified.
SPEAKER_02Yeah.
SPEAKER_00But one of like the main edits that I encourage my clients to do, and this is there's a lot of pushback to it, um, but it is having a consistent bedtime and wake up time.
SPEAKER_02And talk about it. I know we do it.
SPEAKER_01We actually do that in my house. That was one of the things that we did in that simplify three years is that we do it. The alarms are set permanently and we have to turn them off, right? So talk to us about the consistent get up and go to bedtime.
SPEAKER_00Yes. So a couple things with it. So um, I don't think that you should try to do both at the same time. Okay. If you're kind of all over the place, my first suggestion is focus on your evening because how you end your day is how you're going to start the next day. And so when you are able to have a consistent bedtime, it takes the mind drama away. Many of us are literally making 30,000 decisions a day, right? And there is decision fatigue. So sometimes us not going to bed is literally just us not wanting to make a decision, like you said, right? Or there's going to be people that are going to conflict with what you want to do. So just having a set time, whether it's just for you or for your family, it really kind of takes away that drama. And then on the other end, in the morning, there's a certain time every day that you wake up, you start your day off nailing it. Like you did something, you accomplished something. I know many people make their beds, which is great. Yeah. You did you do. That's awesome. I don't. But I love waking up to my alarm and not pushing snooze. To me, that is like success.
SPEAKER_01That would be success for me. Yeah. Yeah. Because I'm the I'm the opposite. Um, for me, and I totally that was all this simplified stuff. That was the decision fatigue is huge for me. And on the disc scale, I'm a very high eye. So I'm very outward facing, lots of energy. And so all the decisions I make, I get to the place where I'm like, I can't make anymore. Right. And so then my work gets pushed off and everything gets pushed off. So I find if I have that consistency, it doesn't have to be like rote or routine or boring. It's just there, we've got to have some, I call them like anchor points, right, in our lives that that we can like pull the boat up to the dock and anchor off for a minute and then get back out back out in the stream. And for us, that's like the going to bed and getting up. But my problem is, um, well, not my problem. I struggle to get out of bed in the morning. Um, so one of the things I do is I, if I need to, if I have a long day tomorrow, I will set out my clothes or, you know, so or I will choose and I will hang them exactly, you know, like this is on the end cap so that I can I can I know that I'm I don't even have to think about what I'm wearing. I don't have to, unless it just doesn't feel good, I know what I'm gonna wear and um I can decide, you know, what I'm gonna have for breakfast or whatever. So I'll do those things at night because. Because I'm more willing to make those decisions then because in the morning, I'm like, don't talk to me.
SPEAKER_00Not a morning person. Hi, Andrea.
SPEAKER_01I used to think I was, but nearly 30 years into a marriage with someone who literally can be snoring next to me because I this happened this morning. I was two minutes before the alarm went off. I got up to go to the restroom and I came back and I laid down and I could hear him snoring. And I thought, the alarm's gonna go off in two minutes. And he's snoring or his alarm. Mine goes off five minutes later. So um I wanted to see what happened. And as soon as the alarm started going off, stopped snoring, and he was out of bed before I could even turn my head. That's how fast it was. So in my defense, I do have somebody who can get out of bed that fast.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, I love it.
SPEAKER_01So for me, it's just not letting the alarm go off too long because it's this lovely bird song. So it's like, I don't, I just listen to the birds. Um but you know, to be able to wake up and get out of bed, that would be a real win, but I don't have to because I got somebody else there helping me. But I I totally understand why that number one, that would be a pushback thing because we have so many things we want to get done. Are you one of those I can do one more thing in this five minutes that I have left? Yeah. Are you that person? Oh, yeah. Yeah. So um, so you said there's two small changes that first is the go to bed and get up, or are those the two changes?
SPEAKER_00Those are the two changes. And another element to it is that it builds self-trust, right? So every time we follow through with what we say we're gonna do for ourselves, we build integrity with ourselves. We build that trust. So that permeates the rest of our day and even like who we are, right? Because if you get stood up all the time at like hanging out with a friend, you're that relationship with that person isn't gonna be very solid. And so many times us as women say we're gonna do something and then we don't. And then that hurts our relationship with ourself. So literally having two decisions of going to bed and waking up can, I believe, really improve confidence in women just by following through with what they say that they're going to do.
SPEAKER_01And not necessarily because I have to get up in order for my get my son to school. Get up when I need to get up, get up for my for my morning Bible study, journaling, exercise, get up, you know, if it's five minutes, 10 minutes earlier to exercise. That's all included because I have to do that for myself. Otherwise, it won't happen during the day.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, it's true. And starting out with that quiet time as opposed to like getting up and like or having your kids get up and like, mom, I'm hungry. How come this? You know, it's just that time is you get to control how you wake up because so many things in our life through during the day, it's we can't really predict like it's life. It it just is, right? As much as a control freak I am, like there's I admit, like there's just so many things that I cannot control during the middle of the day. However, how I start my day and how my end it my day, I can choose to do that. So I'm going to like hold on to those, like I like to call them bookending. It just kind of makes the chaos in the middle of the day a little bit more like I can handle it.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, a little more tolerable, a little more, it's like palatable. It's like, I know I got that one and I know about that one. And so, yeah, getting up, I I never thought of getting up at the same time as being one of those I've accomplished something today. Because that's how I see the making the bed is I've accomplished one thing. And I have a 13 and a half year old son who struggles to remember to make the bed. So I still, you know, I'm asking, Did you make your bed? Did you make your bed? And the other day he said to me, Remind me why we make the bed every day.
SPEAKER_00And I'm just excited if my kids remember to brush their teeth.
SPEAKER_01Well, you know, we're coaches, right? It's like there's some things we see in our kids that we're going to do with our kids. And I know that he needs a few habits and routines, and we're going to talk about those in just a minute. But I know that he needs a few to kind of bookend his day. And um, so I told him, I said, Well, for starters, that gives you one thing that you've accomplished today. And um, he's like, Oh, okay. So I love it. Yeah. So as that's something too that we don't think about a lot of times as leaders, because not every woman that listens to this podcast is a mom, but um, we don't think of the people that we lead on a normal basis and a daily basis, whether they're our children or our spouses ourselves or you know, the people that we work with, because a lot of people think if I'm I don't have a leader or boss in my job description or in my title, then I'm not a leader. And I I think having guests like you helps just highlight the fact that we're all leaders at every level. And um, so I love you. Gave me a new way to think of I I accomplish two things in the morning if I get up with my alarm. So when my alarm goes off, now I can say I did two things.
SPEAKER_00You can like literally write it on a checklist and check it off, right? Yes.
SPEAKER_01And I have other checklists like did I work out and did I do my writing today? And you know, so I'm gonna have to add get up on time. Oh, golly, that's gonna change my world. Okay, you rocked my world, Tabha. So let's go back. You did give us a really um brief glimpse of young Tabtha, but I love to talk to leaders about their earliest leadership memory because, and you kind of touched on that already, but I'd love to dive into it a little deeper with maybe a specific memory when you it you decided to work with other girls coming behind you. Because, like you said, so many women don't realize that what they're doing today, especially if it's something that they've meandered into, is a reflection of their very first leadership memory. Because so many times that first leadership memory is a reflection of who they really are. And it takes us a while because we deviate from that sometimes and we have to come back to it, just like you said, right? Do you yes, do you want to share a memory with us there?
SPEAKER_00Yeah. So I just remember sitting um in this really cold building in Alaska again with like a bunch of girls in a circle. And there was a like the main leader, and I was the co-leader. And I remember one of the girls asking a question. I don't remember what it was, but I remember not knowing the answer. And I had to like decide how I was going to respond. And kind of as a leader, like from a leader lens, I have learned that it is okay to not know the answer when people come to me with questions back then and now, and how much even more I respect someone if they're like, you know what? I don't even know the answer to that, but I'm gonna figure it out. So I remember having the confidence to be like, I don't actually know that answer. So let me look into this and then I'm gonna follow up with you. And then I did. And that just allowed me to develop a great relationship with her, but also build confidence in myself as someone who's a perfectionist and would like to know it all, um, that it's okay that I don't and that I can figure it out too.
SPEAKER_01I love that. I mean, just the principle there that we don't to know at that young age that you don't have to have all the answers. Um, it takes many of us many years to get there because knowing the answers is so prized in our uh communities and in our um culture, I think.
SPEAKER_00Yeah.
SPEAKER_01Being the person with the answers and being able to find the answer, you know, at the snap of your fingers and um to to have that, I love that you pointed out, the confidence at that young age to be able to say, I don't know, but I'm gonna find out. And then understanding how that really did build that for you. So do you find that that that is really kind of what played out when you didn't know where you wanted to go for your birthday and that kind of pushed you into becoming a life coach? What was what was that development like?
SPEAKER_00Yeah, so I think this concept of being curious versus critical has developed over my life. And so at that point when I was younger, I got curious, right? Of like, I don't know the the answer. So I'm gonna get curious and finding the answer, but I was also curious and like how I even responded to her to fast forward that point when I realized I didn't even know where I wanted to go to eat. There's definitely times when I'm, you know, the healthier version of me just stays curious. Like, I don't know this, so I'm gonna figure it out. So I took these small little steps. I decided to ask two women out for coffee who had gone before me. They were a little older, right? And I asked them, like, how do you balance being a mom, also working, being a wife, all the things, right? And I actually like kind of came up with a plan of things that I wanted to do in order to remain curious and answer these questions so I could continue moving forward and not not feel stuck in this. I have I've always had a great life, but like not feel stuck in it because it just wasn't, I wasn't living out my fullest potential at that point.
SPEAKER_01Well, and when we're when we're not living our potential, we feel it.
SPEAKER_02Right?
SPEAKER_01We feel a pull, we feel a tug. Um, so you asked them what what to do, and they gave you what they knew, and then you took it and ran with it. Um paid attention to me at all. Curiosity is my word. So, like I said, it's like we're two sides of a coin. So you took it and you ran with it and just did your research.
SPEAKER_00So, in addition to that, um, I read a book called Living Forward, and it helps you create a life plan. So I started kind of coming up with this basically ideal life. Like, if I could create this life that I wanted, what would I want? And so you write out like your ideal like future in a certain area of your life and then like how it is now, and then you figure out like what the gap is. And so I realized I still wanted to work with women. I wanted to encourage them, but I also wanted to be able to have the flexibility of working from my home and being available whenever my kids needed me and whenever my husband needed me. And so that again, I again asking friends, listening to podcasts, uh, researching articles, things just started to kind of come together. Now it wasn't just like at one point it clicked, it was like literally little breadcrumbs. Like it was super annoying, right? Like we all just want that epiphany. But finally it was just like it slowly came together. And it's like, okay, I guess I decided that I'm gonna sign up for my first life coaching course. And then that helped me be like, okay, this is what I want to do. But having the confidence to again just be like, I don't know enough, but I want to figure it out. Um, and allow that to not be a negative, but actually a positive thing really helped kind of me and a lot of my leadership um abilities.
SPEAKER_01Well, sure. You developed your own, you went through your own journey, which means you can then speak to it.
SPEAKER_00Yeah.
SPEAKER_01So tell me about the book Um Living Forward. Do you know who the author? Can you tell me the author?
SPEAKER_00Um, that is a great question. We'll look it up. We will look it up and we will try to see if it was on my my that's okay.
SPEAKER_01Uh we'll put it in the show notes for sure. Yes.
SPEAKER_00Um, but it's definitely an incredible book and literally helps you walk through creating a life plan that really can give you the direction that you need when you feel lost.
SPEAKER_01Well, and there are a lot of authors that can do that. And if this one isn't for you, if you go to, you know, for if you're listening and you think, well, yeah, I don't really like that one, but if you pull it up on Amazon, then you're probably gonna see 10 other ones. So you might find one there. But to know that somebody else used it is very helpful. And I love the comment that it came together like breadcrumbs, right? It's um, I understand. I wish mine had come together in an epiphany as well, and it did not. And I don't know if it's just for us life coaches or executive leadership coaches or what, but it doesn't come together that way. Um did you try other things? Because I did. I tried uh what did I try? Interior design. I thought I would do that. Um, I even started a course as soon as I got to the whole drafting portion and I didn't get an A on it like, oh, this is not for me. Um because I'm a little bit of a perfectionist as well. But did you try other things or did you just did it?
SPEAKER_00Yeah, I just I started volunteering in different areas. So I um I volunteered at the county jail there in um Texas and ran a Bible study there, which I truly have always loved and am continuing to do that as I can. Sure. Um, but I also volunteered at a pregnancy center, pregnancy resource center is the new term for crisis pregnancy center. Right. Um, and so that was really great. And the thing is, like there's a lot of good things in our life that we can try, but there's a difference between a good thing and a bad thing. And when we're stepping into our fullest potential of what he wants us to do, like we can tell the difference. Like, oh, this is cool, but it still doesn't like itch that spot. Yeah. And so I, you know, taking that course was even really helpful as well. Um, but I realized my my master's degree really equipped me to do a lot of these similar things. Sure. And so being able to kind of go back in and take all of the um therapy um notes and everything that I've done before and incorporate it into my own style was really empowering.
SPEAKER_01That's good to know. I mean, because so many people forget that they have skills that they can use in different ways, right? Yes. Now, some people say, well, social work and life coach, not that far off. Well, I have a business administration degree, you know, and I was a manager. So um not all of that is life coachy or leadership, but um, there it may not be that I don't know, maybe 1% of the people listening to this would actually become a life coach, but or any kind of coach, but it all of that is good information on how we think about how we can make changes. And it may be that you're not going to make changes, you are just going to become more fulfilled in what you're already doing. And um, because I think that's how you work with people is if you help simplify the chaos. It may be that they're where they need to be, they just needed to eliminate some things.
SPEAKER_00Absolutely. And I think it's so good as a leader, too, to not ever preach something you're not actually going to do yourself, right? Right. Being a life coach really again was because I realized how important and how transformative it was when I coached myself and had a coach and just work through those. And so as leaders, we really need to be cautious and um aware of how we're leading to make sure that we're following through with those same things that we're telling other people to do.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, I um just uh several podcast episodes ago um put out one on trusting, building trust and and respect within your team. And one of the things is you you can't have a different standard for I mean, if you're in a corporate setting and a church setting and your family, you can't have one standard for you and one standard for everybody else. You have to be willing to do the same things, even if it's walking through the same learning. Like even when I, if I walk through, because I'm an executive leadership coach, if I walk through a book with a client, I need to read that book. I can't just say, tell me what you learned. I gotta actually read it. So I ordered a book yesterday because it's not one that I've walked through with someone, but I know the book. And now I'm gonna make sure that I read it as well. And walking those journeys, plus, the more we experience something, the better we can speak to it.
SPEAKER_00Oh, absolutely. Absolutely. And, you know, again, being a leader is really just being a couple steps ahead of someone and/or just walking like with someone and being like, all right, well, I'm gonna help make the decision first. But what do you think too?
SPEAKER_01Absolutely. I talk about um, you know, those little barrel of monkeys things with one arm this way and one arm this way, like one up and one down. I talk about this is we we hook arms with the person in front of us and we hook arms with the person behind us and we go together, or we link arms and walk down the road together. And um, I think that's a much more collaborative way to lead.
SPEAKER_00Um, it doesn't have to be the goose out in front, you know, getting the I think that's the difference too between kind of feminine feminine and masculine energy. It's been something I've been really interested in learning more about and not in the woo-woo energy. It's like actual how women show up and how not how women, but like how we were created, that energy and how masculine energy, and we all have a little bit of each, but collaboration is something of feminine energy that isn't necessarily seen a lot because most of the systems were created by men for men. And so, as us women are rising up in leadership and taking in like these um positions, that we are having an opportunity to start creating spaces where we can collaborate and you know, linking arms and being like, I'm gonna pretend like I know everything. I want to ask, what do you know? What do you know? How can we come together? It's not about whose name is on the report or whatever. It's it's about coming together and coming up with a solution so we can all move forward.
SPEAKER_01Absolutely. Because, and it's not even like the best idea in the room gets the the promotion or the the gets to move forward. It's a lot of times it's half the idea comes from you and the other half comes from me. I mean, a lot of times it's that much collaboration. Um, I have I have a potential client or had a potential client. I don't know if they're gonna work with me, but um, I'm not sure that's gonna work out, but it's an office that's a little bit of a franchise style set up in what I would say this you described it as system set up by men for men, and women have then now inserted themselves or been put added into these male systems. And this, it's all women at this place in this organization, and yet they're still set up in a very masculine system. And I'm like, this is not gonna work ever. And um, in order to do like disk assessments, that's great if you know people's communication styles, but there's so much more to look at here. I don't, you know, and so many women just think that the only way to succeed is within that established system. And I don't, I don't think that that's true.
SPEAKER_00No, I think we limit ourselves when we think that we need to be more like a man, nope, to to get that. Like, no, like we were all created with a purpose for a purpose, and we need to use the qualities that we have in order to move forward. And yeah, what I was interesting is working in the prison system, like prison system was created for men initially. And as women have come into it, and there's more and more women now in the system, unfortunately, um, they really don't get the attention. And even like the basic care needs, like pads and tampons, yeah, like that, you know, men kind of got these things and women, it's like they're kind of an afterthought. And it just like breaks my heart for these women who obviously already went through a hard time in their life, made a poor choice. Yes, they're you know, doing the consequences. I I explained to my kids, it's like when people go to prison, it's like a big time out. They've got time to think about it. And then when someone says they can come at a timeout, they do. And so, like, it's this big timeout. And so we keep supporting them. Anyhow, that's kind of my plug for for prison. And how old are your kids?
SPEAKER_01Eight and five. Okay. I and just I wish prison was as safe as a big time out, but um, you know, but you know, if anybody knows the the safeties and issues of prison systems, um, but I love that you brought that out. Um, I actually mentioned, literally mentioned this to my husband the other day is that we don't realize how many women don't have the basic needs met. And because we're in systems that have been created by men, because you know, these are always afterthoughts and nobody wants to talk about women's health and it's scary and it's gross and it's but it is what it is. And we're I I don't even know what our percentage is of the population. I think it's more than 50%, but that's a big deal. Even if we're just 50, if it's still at 50-50, that's 50% of your population. And we need to pay attention to that as we I think as we move further into the 21st century, we are more and more going to be led by women, and we are going to have a bigger and bigger role. And this is an opportunity for us to step up in this basically global economy with everything digital. This is an opportunity for women to actually step into leadership roles. And like you you and I say the same thing, but you're created exactly by with purpose for a purpose. Um and um so I I think that's I I love that. I think it's exciting. And I'm so glad that you have that perspective and that you can do that special work. Um we all have some kind of a whether we acknowledge it or not, a leadership principle that we live by. Do you have one that you could share with us and say this is if there was one that I had to live by, it would be this one.
SPEAKER_00Yes. Um, the leadership principle. Um, I was you sent over the notes and I really wanted to think about this. And so I I was really thinking about a lot of the like the most impactful times I've had as a leader. Okay. And what came to mind was just show up. Even when you don't necessarily know what to say or how to do it, life's been crazy and you don't feel equipped or you feel like an imposter, just show up. That has been the most like impactful times when there's been, I've had every excuse not to like go to a meeting, um, you know, continue to work with someone that was challenging. And I just showed up and there was transformation, not just for the person that I was helping. But also for myself. And as a leader, we need people to do hard things and to show up when a lot of people are flaky. But we can start, you know, really encouraging people to have integrity and to do what they say they're going to do when we do what we say we're going to do.
SPEAKER_01Character. That's what I call character is just saying what I'm going to do and then doing it, following through with the things that we say. I mean, the spoken word means so much. And so a lot of times just saying what we what we intend and then doing it. I love that. Just show up. It's not just do it, it's just show up. And um that that applies everywhere. Um, so let's actually now we're gonna transition into the habits and the rituals because I know that's your thing. And um it's a little bit of my thing, and I always ask my guests because if you have a leadership principle, surely you have a habit or ritual that that helps you accomplish that and do that. Um, we've already talked a little bit about habits, and I'm interested to hear yours. And then I have a couple of other thoughts and questions for you.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, so one of the habits that I've actually started doing um with my husband on Sundays is a weekly plan. And this is for um anyone that, you know, you have to make more than one decision a week, which is every single person. And so this is where we come together and we talk about our schedule. So every day I'm not like, hey, when are you coming home? Or he's not like, hey, what's going on? We literally go through and talk about our schedule. And this can be done with a team. So it doesn't necessarily even have to be if you're not with a significant other. It can be in any type of like group setting where you're kind of living life again, you're collaborating, you're living life together. Um, and at some point, too, even bringing your kids in on it. And so creating this habit has like, again, eliminated mind drama of not knowing what's gonna happen and also sticking to like, okay, well, we said we're gonna do this. And obviously we make modifications as we need to, but following through with that, and we also schedule jammy days where we literally do not go anywhere. Like you stay in your pajamas every single like this particular day, and this just allows for rest because in order to be a leader, you need to have your cup full so you can pour out to other people, and so you need to make sure that you are filling yourself up. So sometimes implementing those jammy days are very, very necessary just to have that energy.
SPEAKER_01Oh, and all of that sounds like a fun, and um, what's so interesting is that we do the same thing. We we actually have the weekly plan on Sunday afternoon. Um, and we've also taken that because you know, he's he kind of works out of the house as well. And we have a about to have an eighth, eighth grader in our house, and so it's like all these different things are happening. And now that I am an entrepreneur and I'm on Zoom calls or podcast interviews or you know, working with clients or out down in town working with clients in person, um, we've actually taken the weekly plan one step further. Um, and we actually, because on Google, it's real easy to invite somebody to your calendar, right? You can invite somebody so, but then it's like I have to accept his and then it says I'm busy and everything. Well, Google has a family calendar option for you that you can all share. And it doesn't override what's already on your calendar. And so just this last week, with everything we have going on, we started putting things on the family calendar. And now that my son has a Gmail account with school, we're all three on it. So any of his school things, we actually schedule things like we're gonna go to the football games this year, we're gonna because we want to schedule some social things. But um, so we take it that step, and I can always just click that button and turn it off if I need to not have all that clutter on my calendar. But if I need to see what's going on, then you know, I even block off time. Andrea's coaching at this moment, Andrea's in a podcast interview at this moment, and he can turn it off on his, but he also can when we sit down on Sunday afternoons now, we open it up and it's like, oh wow, we have a full week. Let's make sure we're totally on the same page. And when we do it that way, it really you're you're right. I think we got it from I think Rachel Hollis um back when she was doing it with her then husband. And um, it was like, that's brilliant. And it really just kind of helped. Um, so I love the jammy days. How did that start?
SPEAKER_00Um, I think just being super overwhelmed one day and not getting ready and being like, hey, this is really cool. Why, why do I have to feel like I need to be overwhelmed and like not able to do it? Because I'm an adult. I get to decide what I want to do. And it allows my kids too to be like, okay, this is the one day, you know, because every day they got to get up and get dressed and do all the things. Um, what if we just kind of had a relaxed day and you know, they can go play with their friends. You can put clothes on if you want, right? But it just gives you that freedom. And as a perfectionist, like it releases that expectation that I need to look a certain way. And so I can just kind of own that. And um, yeah, it's a lot of fun. Another thing, too, that has been a lot of fun that we've done with our schedule is that we love to connect with other couples and so like do date nights um with them. So we actually created a Calendly um or you can use a cuity and it's like a scheduling app. And so we'll actually send it to our friends and be like, hey, here's um, you know, the next month, here are available days. Why don't you choose one? And then they can select the restaurant that they want to meet at. And so, because you know, you go back and forth with like four people's schedules and you're like, how are we gonna figure out a night to get together? Um, so we created this Calendly link, and that has been super helpful with, you know, trying to connect with other friends. We've had to explain what it means. They're like, what is this? Like, trust me, it's gonna be amazing.
SPEAKER_01Yeah. Well, because you're an entrepreneur, so you use Calendly. I actually use Acuity. And um, but anybody who has any kind of service-based business online, you use one of these calendar links most likely, or you're back and forth scheduling. So um, to know that you use it for personal stuff is great. Do you like put the restaurants in there for them to choose from?
SPEAKER_00Yeah. So with Calendly, you can actually like put selections and so that way, you know, it you can have them create their own or suggest their own. But yeah, it's it's really neat. I use a cute with my business too. And my husband used Calendly. And so he kind of runs that, but it's been really fun to kind of see all the different features and you know, you can totally nerd out on scheduling.
SPEAKER_01Well, but that, you know, it goes back to being intentional about your life. And so the habits that you have here are planning and planning even for your rest and planning even for your fun. And I think that's really those are that along with going to bed and getting up, these are great pieces of advice. Y'all, this is good stuff. Um so, really quick before we close out, um, we love to talk on this podcast about green flags for people as they look at. I don't know how what topic you would want to look at for green flags, but instead of red flags that would stop us from doing something, what are some maybe some green flags that we can look forward that would say, hey, I should go in this direction?
SPEAKER_00Right. I think um going on this theme of like being self-aware. So it may not be like an external green flag, but maybe an internal green flag. Absolutely. Of knowing that being willing to try something that may not work. And that is super hard. I don't actually like doing things that may not work, but I've found that the more often I've tried um to do these things and keep showing up, even if it doesn't actually work out the way that I think, I'm building confidence, I'm getting more creative, I meet new people, I learn new things. And this just allows you to develop yourself as a leader by not being afraid to fail.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, that's really, really important to not be able to. So if somebody said, All right, I'm willing to do this, I'm willing to, because I have a whole thing of like, you got to try one new thing every, you know, for 30 days, try one new thing. Cause it like kind of gets you in that habit, that practice. Um, and trying something that you know might fail, that sounds like it's got a little bit more teeth. Um, and um, so I think that's really, really good. But if we're willing to try something that might not work, what's the best piece of advice you can give to get us going?
SPEAKER_00Um, writing it down, which I know is super cliche, but how many times have you been super excited about something? And then like a day or two later, and you kind of like fizzle, it fizzles out, like you kind of forget that you were even excited about it. So literally just writing it out on like a sticky note. Again, I'm all about simplifying small little edits, you know, and just put it somewhere where you're gonna see it, whether it's on your card dashboard or on your mirror, and like make this statement of I am like you are currently doing it. So like I am gonna become a life coach. I am going to be, you know, an executive coach, whatever it is, and just so that way your brain can think on it and you can really just kind of process it um and just be re-inspired by it and not forget, right?
SPEAKER_01Every, you know, and and that goes for even things that we're trying to habits that we're trying to develop. Um, I am a runner, I am a spin bike person, whatever, you know. I mean, little little habits that we're trying to develop. These are really, really good. Um, so we could talk forever and I'm sure we will talk more. Um, but the best, because we do need to wrap things up today, which is kind of sad because I'm really enjoying this. Where is the best place for people to find you?
SPEAKER_00Sure. So I am on Facebook as well as Instagram, and it's Tab of the Perry Life Coach. And um also have my website, Tab of the Perry Batcoach. Okay.
SPEAKER_01Um, and you also have a blog and a podcast. Yes. And um is there anything that uh when they go to find you, uh, the best things to kind of give them an idea of who you are, or is there like a special offer that you have or anything?
SPEAKER_00Um, so if they're interested in learning more who I am, they can check out my website, which explains a little bit more about my background. And I love doing strategy sessions with um potential clients or even just someone who's feeling a little bit lost, chaotic in life. And so they can sign up for that also through my website where it's just a free 30-minute call where they kind of tell me like what's going on, and then I can just ask a bunch of questions. And again, as a coach, like I don't necessarily want to tell you what to do, um, but I want to ask you enough questions that you can figure it out and kind of help you through some of those barriers.
SPEAKER_01Yeah. Oh, that sounds perfect. So we'll make sure all that is available in the show notes of this particular episode. Um, but before we close, Tabitha, we love to find out what is the one thing that you can always be optimistic about, even when everybody else thinks you're nuts and you're crazy. What is it?
SPEAKER_00Um people are not defined by what they do, but by who they are. And so I just like being optimistic about people's abilities that it doesn't matter if you've messed up or you you don't feel like you've really accomplished anything in your life, it doesn't matter. You can always like take the next step, lean into your strengths and your values and the beliefs about yourself, and then really you can kind of push forward and do those things that you're excited about. So I think it's really neat to just um value people for who they are. Yeah, I love that.
SPEAKER_01Um because kids will always do well when they're given the opportunity. People will um stay within your boundaries when given the opportunity. People will make good choices, usually when given the opportunity. And um, so I I just I love that that they're not defined by any of our choices. We we get we get to redefine some of those things because our choices can change each day. Thank you so much. Is there for anything I forgot to ask? No, this has been wonderful. I appreciate you having me on, Andrea. I have loved it. Thank you so much, and um, I look forward to talking to you more in the future. You know, I love it when two women who've never met before come together over a shared love of helping other women. That alone is beautiful. But then to find so many shared points of value and conviction, it doesn't matter how far apart you are or your age, good stuff always comes together. You know, like attracts like. Now, before I share a couple of takeaways with my conversation with Tabitha, let's look at how she embodies the tenets of intentional optimism. Of course, I do this for every guest because we all live unique and different lives, and while what we do is different, intentional optimism is how we do what we do. It's the attitudes and mindsets that we employ and embody to live out our own goals and dreams with excellence. So we first look at optimistic. Tabitha knows exactly what it means to be positive. She said over and over that she had just enough confidence to take that next small step. And then the next and then the next. And that's what we mean when we talk about having positive confidence. Next, she's present. She is kind and open and was drawn to the disenfranchised and the people she called invisible early in life, understanding that they were lonely and that she could actually make a difference. She's energetic. Tabitha is life-focused. She knows that she can encourage and uplift other women with simple, small encouragements, and finds joy in helping them find their own joy again. She's courageous. Well, first of all, courageous is one of her descriptor words, which I absolutely loved. And she's willing to step out and do new, different, and hard things. Did you hear her story of working with paroles at the age of 20? That alone, that should get you. She's wise. Yes, as a licensed social worker, she's gonna have a good understanding of all the different sides of life, but she's chosen to stay in that understanding and move forward using all of that as kind of a compass for how she works with her clients. She's definitely intentional. She says, you were created with a purpose for a purpose. Over and over, right? She lives that belief out in every aspect of her life. Tabitha is unconventional in her leadership because her passion to help women realize who they are, what they're capable of, and how they're gonna get it is a reflection of her core values of things like inherent worth, simplification, and, as she said, just showing up, all of that making her a great role model for changing women's lives at any stage in life. Unconventional leaders lead at every level, in any area, using their unique gifts. So for me, talking to Tabitha was a little bit like stumbling onto a mental doppelganger. We came to our current professions from a very different direction and with different skill sets and personalities. But our love for other women and desire to help them grow as we ourselves have grown has produced so many similar convictions. Her message of reducing chaos resonates with probably every woman that I've ever met, no matter what career or profession that they're in. But the fact that she recognizes how easy it is to get way out of whack, especially when you're not in a nine to five rhythm, means that she went looking for the best way to pull things back into a relatively ordered orbit, right? She's a mom of two girls and she volunteers and I mean she rattled off all these different things and still managed, while she was doing what she thought she loved, she managed to realize that she kind of lost herself. Now, what part of Tabitha's story resonated with you the most? Are you a non-nine-to-fiver who seems to have lost herself in the chaos? Maybe you're a mom who thought that the ideal life would be to have children and stay home to raise them, only to find out when you got home from that job that you're created with a slightly different blueprint, but not quite sure how to get back to living within your full purpose or potential without losing that important aspect of motherhood. Maybe you don't have a partner or kids, but you've still managed to create a life where your needs are always last. Incidentally, the book she mentioned is Living Forward, a proven plan to stop drifting and get the life you want, and it's by Michael Hyatt and Daniel Harkabee. Michael Hyatt has always been in this space of simplifying and figuring things out, so I can't wait to read it myself, especially having somebody like her recommend it and see how it transported her life into something that's really great. I'm looking forward to it. We've put it in the show notes, it's in there, along with all of her contact information. If, like Tabitha, you can do your own research, maybe that book is a great place to start. If you're not really a book reader, you could even start with a vision board. The link to the free replay for my vision board workshop is always in the show notes. Getting a better grasp on your own strengths and skills, or even a gentle accountability group to keep you focused on your own small edits can make a real difference. Let's chat. Hop on my calendar for a 30-minute consultation and let's get you a strategy in place. If you loved this episode, scroll down and click the five-star button. Then take a screenshot and tag me somewhere on social media with a comment. I'm on most of the major platforms. I love to hear what you're learning. That way it'll also be easier to share that podcast with your friends. Because you know you thought of somebody who needs to hear this story, Tabitha's specific story, didn't ya? Now if you'd like to hear more from Tabitha, she and I will be live the week that this episode airs on my guest speaker series. It's the YouTube channel link is in the show notes, and if you don't catch it live, you can always catch the replay. I look forward to hearing from you. Thank you so much for spending time with us today. Until next time. Oh good, you're still here. Because I have one more invitation for you. My newsletter, Optimistic Living, is full of good stuff, delivered straight to your inbox. So for weekly encouragement, tips, and even some special offers, hop over to my website and sign up. Because unconventional leaders meet at every level, in any area, using their unique gifts. And you, my friend, are a leader. You are the future of leadership and the role models for future generations.
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