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Stand Tall & Own It
Something shifted. You can feel it. You just can't name it yet.
Stand Tall & Own It is for women in the second half of life who are high-functioning on the outside and quietly disoriented on the inside. You built your life inside systems you trusted completely — until you realized you couldn't tell what was actually yours from what you'd just learned to navigate well.
Host Andrea Johnson doesn't offer formulas. She offers honest thinking, sharp observation, and the kind of conversation that makes you pull over and sit in your driveway.
This is where the real work starts.
Stand Tall & Own It
Episode 117 - The Value of Words with Katja Schleicher
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Katja Schleicher is a sought-after Communications Trainer and Coach. She heads IMPACT! Communication Coaching, a pan-European training office focusing on communication coaching, media & public speaking training & business storytelling. She gets managers, teams, women and men to talk - and improves their communicative impact in public speeches, conversations and media interviews. For Katja, words, and what they mean and how they “come across" to the audience are her passion and business model.
Topics discussed in this episode:
Leadership Principles:
- Keep going - don’t stop. You have to look but the answer will always show up…keep going.
- Look into your own story. Your obstacles are your own, but they should never lead you to give up.
Habits:
- Engage in regular curiosity.
- Be intentional about turning things upside down on purpose in order to train yourself to see things differently.
Green Flags:
- When you hear or see someone speak and it resonates with you, tell them. It opens up communication lines that build bridges. Give specific feedback.
- There are commonalities and contrasts, go to the contrasts - outside of the comfort zone, this is where adventure awaits.
- Dive deep. We have a tendency to be very shallow. Knowing something deeply from all sides and angles gives you confidence.
Where to find Katja:
Website: Katja Schleicher
Facebook: Katja Schleicher
LinkedIn: Katja Schleicher
Complementary Resources:
What Is Intentional Optimism?
Andrea’s Favorite Planning & Productivity Tools
Become an Intentional Optimist!
All my links
30 Minute Free Consultation
Health & Wellness: Plexus
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You are listening to Inventional Optimists, the top for unconventional leaders, where you'll find inspiration, learn to discover and develop your own strengths, and you're from inspiring women just like you who are making a difference in their community. Who knows? You just might find yourself stepping up as the next unconventional leader, right where you are. I'm your host and read John. The original, interventional. Nearly my entire career in academic medicine was dedicated to making things work better, run more smoothly, or more accurately. Eventually I began to refer to myself as a translator because I noticed that I had a knack for bridging the gap between medical professionals and administrators, or researchers and financial staff. Today's guest has made that process an art form. To say that Katya Schleicher is a communications trainer and coach is to leave out way too much information. Words, what they mean, and how they come across to the audience, whether that's in the break room or the boardroom or the ballroom, are her passion. And that comes across the minute she starts talking. She left a career in PR, advertising, TV, and corporate communications to be on the road as a trainer, consultant, and coach to what she calls the intercultural communication shallows and misunderstandings throughout Europe. If you ever thought you were too curious or too talkative or too, well, anything, you need to meet my new friend Katya. And in case I don't say it later, you're welcome. Hey Katya, welcome to the show. Hi, Andrea. I am so excited to talk to you. Um you're one of those that I had to go ahead and hit record because we were already having too much fun and I was afraid we were going to say something that we'd have to find. You know that thing we said before. So I am excited to talk to you. You are what, a communications expert?
SPEAKER_01That's it, that's it in a nutshell, exactly. And that has a couple of that that's like the root of my of my business. And it has a couple of branches and a couple of leaves. One of them is I'm of course, I'm speaking on stages, on keynotes, on communication topics. Like groups. Just ask, just ask.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, so you train, you teach, um, you uh translate, you negotiate. Yeah. So for those, we're gonna get into a little bit of that later. Um, but tell us kind of an overview of what you you do with teams or exactly how you work with people, so that we can get a better idea, and then we're gonna get your story.
SPEAKER_01The the ideas are what I mainly do with teams or individuals, it it doesn't matter. Uh that I either teach them on how to be present on stages, all the stages you can have. That can be a conversation, it can be a keynote, it can be whatever. Um, then I work a lot with people on that their narrative communication, because you know, narrative, the story is what makes us emotionally involved. That is that is uh one important part of what I'm doing. Um, then there is a big part, a really big part of intercultural uh aspects of communication. And the reason for that is you know, it has nothing just to do with being from one country or another, it is more like in an industry, a procurement and a marketing department. Exactly, exactly. Thank you. You know what I'm talking about, right? Exactly. So, and all of a sudden you have an intercultural conversation, and yes, you do have that between men and women, you have that between the generations, you have that gap from people who live in the country and who live in in urban clusters, people from London and Washington, they understand each other absolutely brilliant. Or let's let's let's take a different culture. Let's say someone from Tokyo and yeah, from Tokyo and Amsterdam. Oh, yeah, oh, they have all the urban problems, sure, sure. And people living in the countryside, somewhere in Norwich and in Britain, or in rural Spain, they these people understand each other at a completely different level. And it is fascinating to me to bring these levels together. And to the third pillar to just to um uh make it all complete, the third pillar is I'm working a lot of in the era of agile communication. You know, we used to have a meeting and a meeting and a meeting and a meeting. In agile communication, we target meetings differently. We ask always the question, why are we meeting? Okay, we have to take a decision. So it is a destiny, not a meeting anymore, or it's just a dip, a 10-minute catch-up on where are we with this project? Okay, Loki. And having these different formats uh changes completely how the conversation goes. But just as an example, in a in one of these dip meetings, short, um, uh okay, did you do this? Yes, green, we are about there. Okay, I need uh I'm right, I need you for this, and then off to the next topic. Um very often there is no socializing necessary, we do not even expect it. While in in in another meeting where we go deep, we we need a deep dive, we need to talk about how we are doing at that particular time of the meeting. Are we doing fine or not? All that. So this is the agile part of my work. And again, trainings, coachings, speaking, as long as it is communication.
SPEAKER_00So I find this whole agile thing um fascinating because I have a brother-in-law who is a project program project manager and he's um certified in agile. And it it's it is agile is, you know, when people, if you don't know what agile is, y'all, it is a form of communication, but it's the whole concept behind it is, at least from what I understand, is that you give out as increments of information, like when you're finishing out a project, you give out increments of information in order to adjust your trajectory to make sure you actually hit the goal. Is that correct? That's a part of it.
SPEAKER_01Okay. You're talking in this particular part, you talk about the scrum part. So you say like yeah, the the the the process of right. And the the the let me say the the the larger idea of agile communication is that you, and that is something scrum does, you rethink every process and you adapt the communication according to what is needed right now, because most of the times we don't need a meeting. What we need is a debate, a decision or a decision, or a dip, or um, I don't know, and in a socializing meeting, a dance meeting, right? So and if we and and that is what scrum uh masters do a lot, there is a they're very tight process, but that only can be there because you know why you're there. And in communication, many of the things we talk about is um, okay, we are having this meeting, and then we think, um, excuse me, what why are we having this meeting?
SPEAKER_00Yeah. I had a conversation with a client yesterday with this exact problem of getting into a meeting and too many people are in charge and not knowing the destination. And I love that. I love the the idea that the meeting becomes a destination rather than a process.
SPEAKER_01Yes, and agile agile communication is kind of targeting that that communication in a in a in a different way. So yeah. How did you get into that? Um, did you just fall into it accidentally? Yeah, to to to quote to quote uh Lady Gaga born that way. Okay. Really? Now, if you would ask my mother, um she she probably would say, like, look, I can't remember a time where you did not do that voluntarily or or on purpose or even you know unsolicited. Um I I think talking writing has always been my my core. And I and to me it's it's it's an incredible resource. I can always go back to that. I'm very I'm very bad at many, many things. I can't paint or draw. Um I'm not very good in math, all that, but I know my way with words, and I know how to get the best words out of other people. So I would call it an early calling. I really, I really do that for a long time. I did that in corporates, in PR, um, media relations, marketing, all that. I studied it, I studied it. And since 2006, I'm I set up my own shop and I'm running my own company. Doing basically doing the same thing.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, I mean it I find it fascinating. I love communication. When I I am not the communicator you are, um, but when I work with people, we figure out their disc type and help them understand basic patterns in other people to look at basic communication pieces. But now you've thrown in that culture piece. I'm like, oh, that I love that idea. So um I have I'm I know I'm gonna be done learning a lot from you. Do people work with you individually, other than for like speaking?
SPEAKER_01The speaking, you know, is like the tip of the iceberg, and speaking to reasons unexplicable to me, inexplicable to me, is for many, many people the most scary thing. So they when they tackle speaking on on stages in front of people, they usually work with me individually because they're a scat. But that is that is more the reason. Yeah, yeah.
SPEAKER_00What do you find is the main underlying reason of their fear?
SPEAKER_01Because I I have I have a good idea of what mine is, but what do you think? Oh yeah, do you have do you usually what we uh tend to find is that there is no speaking fear. There is a fear uh of not being liked, there's a fear of being rejected, very psychologically, very basic things. Sure. Um if we would if we would ensure people that every people on stage that every single person had to sign a commitment that I'm going to like you until the rest of my life. If everybody would sign that, most of the people would go on stage easily. Yeah, yeah, yeah. It's it's hardly ever. What what do you think?
SPEAKER_00Do you have? So I think that I've used those as excuses before because I do prefer to be liked, but I have discovered that when it's my information, it's like for my my IP, right? It's my thoughts, my understanding. You can't shut me up and I will talk anywhere. And I don't, I'm I'm one of those people that you know, I did drama and stuff as in high school, and I'm happy to be on stage. It doesn't bother me, but when I'm presenting somebody else's ideas, I'm a mess. But if I'm presenting my stuff, then I'm okay, right? Even it doesn't even bother me as much that people might not like me because if I believe in it enough, I'm good.
SPEAKER_01The the interesting aspect, and I I come across that frequently, that people even say yes to presenting someone else's idea. And I always wonder how is that ever going to be possible? Right? That to me, to me, um that never was an option. Okay, of course you can say, okay, look, it is I'm terribly sorry, but Andrea can't make it today. I'm Katja, I have her slides here. And what we are going to do now is try to figure out a way to get Andrea's spirit through my mouth as good as possible on stage. That would be that would be a good way, right? But honestly, and and I still see in corporations and companies, I see many, many uh bosses say, like, look, here's the slide deck, you go to present. That doesn't make sense. It does, it never never has been. And the only thing you could do as much as possible, and I see a lot of people sitting in front of their, you know, with their um airports on and say, like, nah, I can't do that. You can say no to it. Yeah, say like, uh, boss, why do you want me to present that? Okay, you want me to develop further. This is a good thing. Thank you for giving me a topic I understand. And then all of a sudden, indeed, what you say, you you talk forever if it's your ideas, if it's your stuff.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, sure. Yeah. Um, so when you work with corporations, what do you find is the biggest culture divide? Like you mentioned a bunch. You mentioned country versus city, you mentioned um uh I love that procurement and marketing. And of course, I started laughing because I come from out of operations in a major university. But you know, those kind of so to me, those were very clear. But what do you find is the biggest, like the hardest cultural divide to bridge?
SPEAKER_01If if I have to select one, I offer you another one. The hardest one and the toughest one, because it has nothing to do with content, it's power versus non-power. That is that is if if you ask me for one, right? Because in in what I see in in in every in every company, they are usually usually equally, uh, equally uh present. Procurement doesn't understand me. But this is this is easy to overcome. You can work, you you can break down the silos. There is a lot of ways to uh to make it culturally acceptable, to include to make it inclusive, right? Even for the bookkeeper in the marketing department, yeah, right? Because there is this beautiful Netflix, it's it's not my quote, right? And uh but it's from that it's from this Netflix book, and I really love it because we all say, like, yeah, we need to be more diverse and we have to understand each other better, and but we don't know how. Netflix has a beautiful idea. They say, like, look, diversity is the invitation to the party, inclusion is when everybody dances, and I like that. That's that's kind of we need to go further to really uh make it possible for everybody to be as comfortable as possible. But power seems to me the toughest thing that the biggest gap to overcome because power is hardly anything we want to share. Oh no.
SPEAKER_00All right, so yeah, and I'm gonna have it, yeah, you don't give it back, right? And we're always afraid that it's a small, it's a limited pie, right? It's like there's this limited pie of power, and that's not the case. It's you know, when you open that up and when everybody hits the dance floor, like I was the seventh grader, like I was sharing with you beforehand. I grew up overseas, I grew up in Seoul, Korea. And so when you talk about Tokyo, I'm like, yep, Seoul's the same way. Um when I went to a small international school, so went to kit school with kids from 65 different countries, and we were seventh through 12th, so American school system, seventh through 12th grade, all in one building. And all of our school dances were seventh through 12th grade. And so I was 12 years old hitting my first school dance. And literally a friend of mine who was a 10th grader, so she was a sophomore in high, so she was like 16. She comes outside. I'm standing outside the door and she says, Come inside, you need to come in, right? So she invited me in to go to the Netflix uh example here. And then she proceeded to drag me onto the dance floor, right? It's like this is how you do it. And when everybody gets, when everybody's communicating, when everybody hits the dance floor, you can tell when it's a popular song, you can tell when everybody feels comfortable doing it. And so when everybody feels comfortable doing that in communication, everything flows better. Yeah, yeah. That's a beautiful example.
SPEAKER_02Totally.
SPEAKER_00I like that a lot. So who so mostly um your your why then is to help everybody communicate as well as you do, or just to be able to communicate, period.
SPEAKER_02No, no, no, no, no, no.
SPEAKER_01No, actually, my mission is to be to make everybody in terms of communication at their best. Okay, right? That is that is so different. Um, I have many clients who are say call themselves, oh yeah, I'm so introverted. Yeah, congratulations. Right. Good, good, because there is a millions, millions of ways for people who not speaking up that fast or that uh that loud uh to make themselves visible, audible, and presentable. They are different from others, and if everybody um completely self-confidence finds their own individual way. Now that if if I achieve that, oh then I retire. But I'm afraid that's going to be a little while until we achieve that moment.
SPEAKER_00I I would agree, but it's a good example too with the introverts. I want to say introverts are there's more introverts in the world than there are extroverts. So if you're an introvert, okay, you can connect with more people, and you're the thoughtful one that can give us the things that maybe we hadn't thought about. Those of us who are happy to just like hear our voice, blah blah blah, you're the one who can actually come through and do that. So I think that's a really good example. Do you find that? Do you find that those are the ones, the introverts are the ones that can do that?
SPEAKER_01You know, it to me, if you say, like, oh, the introverts are the ones who are thoughtful, to me, then automatically, but it might be me, it sounds like okay, the extroverts are only blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, and don't think that's true. It's a stereotype. Yeah, exactly. And if we if we tend to um to to work towards, you know, there is look, if you say I'm I'm okay, I'm an introvert, just for the sake of the word, and there on the very, very, very other extreme, there is someone who speaks easily on another stage and you know, unass and everything. There is between that, there is probably, I don't know, 550 shades of gray. Right. And you have to you have to find yours your place on the scale where it's like uh but it it's always worse to try it for an extrovert or person who calls themselves extrovert, um, to try the introvert way. Most of us are ambivalent anyway, because extroverts need space and time and quiet uh for themselves. Nobody can talk forever. And introvert people need context. They are they are others, they are different contexts and different ways of context, but it does not mean that they are better or worse. No, no, right.
SPEAKER_00No, I think I love though the idea that everyone needs to communicate at their best, meaning they find what their unique way is and bring that out because if you don't, nobody else will, because that's your unique way.
SPEAKER_01Exactly. Exactly. And if I can, if I can support that, my mission is my mission is completed in the world. Yeah.
unknownYeah.
SPEAKER_00Cool. I like your mission a lot. Um, so I shared that I grew up in Korea. Um, let's go back to young Katya. Um, because before we started recording, you said your mom, or maybe it was early on. You said your mom said you were always this way, right? Um, so what is your earliest? This I would consider you quite the leader, right? And um what is your earliest leadership memory? Maybe the first thing that you took on yourself or the first time you helped in this way? What was that earliest one and has it shaped the way you do things today?
SPEAKER_01Being something like three or four, something with that range, in an in an airplane. Uh, you know, and a plane is airborne and we fly. And uh curious me, and curiosity is my killing the cat, but is my leadership priority. Me walking uh through the roads and introducing myself to people. Being three and a half years, my mother was furious, like and then I went to the wise of hello, come catch you, sneaky, cheeky, blonde girl, just being curious. Who is who's there? Who's unintentional? Unintentional. Um, and I I think this this is one of the things when you ask me for more early. Is I think this this stayed with me. Curiosity again, it kills. The cat a lot of times, and I can show you all my bruises. I got because very often you're you're a shut up, you're shut down. So come on, no, no, no, no, no. Don't put your nose into that. Oh, this is not of your concern. I don't know how often I heard this sentence. Oh my god. Why do you want to know that? You're nosy. Absolutely. Don't be nosy. Yeah. Don't be nosy. I'm just curious. Yeah. I am absolutely. I'm probably the most nosy and curious person in the world. Yeah, yeah. Is that you know, and I I can't, I can't understand when people want to keep stuff from me, even very often they don't even keep stuff from me. It's just my feeling. So yeah, this is this is a very early leadership thing. In curiosity, I don't know if that's part of leadership.
SPEAKER_00Oh, I believe it 100%. It's part of it.
SPEAKER_02I do.
SPEAKER_00It's part of wonder, it's part of understanding other people. I mean, if you're not curious, to me, I I put something out recently or you know, a few weeks ago, and it said I was terminally curious, and it got so many views because I feel the same way. If you're not constantly wanting to learn about people, places, things, whatever it is, especially people, you will never connect, right? That's how you connect is through curiosity. You need to know, you need to want to at least know them.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, or ask. And to me, I always ended up in asking. Um, maybe I maybe the answer I got was totally yeah, you know, all boring. But that was fine too. Yeah. But not asking, I think this is one of the things if you would for would ask me never to ask a question, I would die.
SPEAKER_00Me too. Yeah, yeah, yeah. I hear you. And the thing else, the other thing that I noticed about that story is that it wasn't, it doesn't sound like you needed the world to know who Katya was. It was you wanted to know who they were.
SPEAKER_01And and automatically I had I understood as already as a child that there is always a part of me I have to to give, to sure contribute, to to get that wonderful things. So so indeed, I was never it was never for myself. It was never, I I didn't want to uh see or me, I well I go back. I didn't want um uh to see the world that I'm the greatest or something. No, I was like, I I was very happy being a part of that, but a driving part. Yeah, I wanted to, I wanted to drive, and most of the times I yeah, I was I I I drove myself by questions and and curiosity and things. I love that.
SPEAKER_00So at what point did you did it kind of dawn on you that there's something you could do for a living?
SPEAKER_01It didn't dawn on me, it was there all the time, it was the other way around. It was more like okay, and that my parents said that to me. Say, look, you're very good at this. We were reasonable people, right? Reasonable, you're very good at this. Um, if you want, do so, but please do it properly. So you go to university, you can turn it into career, but you learn it properly, and and that's what I um I did. Yeah. Being mommies and daddies could go. And then and then it was always there. It was the most logical choice for me to end up in communication.
SPEAKER_02Yeah.
SPEAKER_00Yeah. In your bio, you mentioned that you were a maverick leader in the 90s. And um, you know, I kind of joked, it's like, I wish I could have been. I didn't, I didn't have the courage to do it. And then you you told me you said it wasn't that I had courage, it was just that that's just how it turned out. What does that mean to be a maverick leader in the 90s?
SPEAKER_01And remember for the young for for the younger, the younger listeners, yeah, who may have been born in the 90s. Exactly. Those of us born several decades prior in the 90s. Uh, there was one thing when you started in in in business wherever, and that was you have to be a team player. Oh, yeah. Okay, okay, fine. So my first my first job was at Saatchi, the advertising uh giant, uh at that time. And I came fresh from the university, and actually I didn't even understand what it meant to be a team player, but pretty quickly it turned out that that is meaning hardship for me. I just yeah, if if I considered and I actually, and you know, it comes over time at this time. I was actually pretty arrogant and full of myself. And when I thought that someone's idea was pretty bad, or or or the the person didn't deliver what they promised, hmm, then I did it myself. So and that is that that was when the Maverick thing started. So okay, if you don't want to comply, then I do it myself. Um, and I actually I didn't care. I didn't care if you oh if if you felt left behind, uh excluded, all the because I thought, like, look, we need to get things done here. So this is the this is the positive side of of being a being memory in in in in in terms of leadership. The negative side is that indeed, and this is nowadays, it's much more important. You have to make sure that you bring everybody on board, uh, that everybody is with you. But again, in the 90s, I I started business when there was no internet. Right that was so purely analog times. So for me, uh, because I got, of course, I got very, very harsh feedback, of course, because everybody expected me to be a team player. And I no, I for me, but if you would have asked me in the 90s, uh, oh, are you a Maverick leader? I I wouldn't even have been able to name the thing, right? No, no. Yeah, but the only thing I that it's it very often you got rejected for your ideas and for your way of behaving.
SPEAKER_00Well, and you look back now and you even you qualify it. You say, I was arrogant, I didn't understand, I didn't know these things. And now, but some it sounds like a lot of those lessons have fueled where you are today and have given you the information you need today to do some of your work.
SPEAKER_01Part of it, because I'm still if I'm if if I'm I know for myself, okay, there will be a way. But what I learned as well is okay, it is so much easier if you include the others. You don't have to carry every burden for yourself every time, which I tended to do. Nonsense. Ask, say like, someone and amazing, amazing what people do for you. Oh, so really, and they do it way better than I do. And this learning over the years is like, okay, just in case, in case of crisis, I'm absolutely able to do it for myself. Yeah, but it is so much more beautiful and easy for me to say, like, oh, we can do that together. Hmm, that stands, right? That makes it that makes it beautiful. But that for me was a huge learning over the years.
SPEAKER_00Yeah. So if you had one personal leadership principle that you live by that kind of has guided you through where you've come from, and now as you move forward, that kind of helps you make sure you stay where you want to be in the way you work. What might that leadership principle be? Keep going. Keep going.
SPEAKER_01Keep keep don't stop. Look, my my my my and and this is a learning as well. My my mother had a stroke when she was 52. After six months, she was in front of her class again. My aunt had two strokes and started a career afterwards. My grandmother, uh, one of my grandmothers took the two little children, one of them was my mom, the other one was my uncle, um, put them on a on a on a tiny at the end of the war in 1945, right? Put them on a on a tiny little wagon, packed a couple of things and fled. Keep going. The other one, the other, my other grandmother, she went, she she traveled half of Europe pregnant, pregnant to get her husband back, who was injured behind the front line. Crazy. And when these women look at me and I I feel like, oh my god, this is going to be a tough one. I look at these women as like keep going. Keep going. There will be, there will be a way, it it will there the path will show. You have to look. It's not that the past will knock on your door, you have to look, but keep going. Yeah, there is no reason to stop, there is no reason to resign, there is no reason to give up. That is a legacy.
SPEAKER_00Keep going. Yeah, what what a what a legacy of strength for you. Yeah, yeah, especially from the women. Yeah, incredible. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Wow. I'm sorry, that's just like that's a lot.
SPEAKER_01And it is, it is, but it helps, it helps. Look, I was in 2008 when I when I did there was I started my company in 2006, so I was and I could rely on a big network. I was already fine, but still, you know, when the financial crisis hit, yeah, and I was not that settled. I felt like, oh my god, this is this is not this is not going to happen. And this is exactly when when uh these women looked at me like, you'll find a way. There will something be happening, something good, something that will help you to move forward. And indeed, indeed. And it it works for me, it works like that. So yes, keep going.
SPEAKER_00I love that. Um, it because that's just a beautiful, a beautiful uh picture of strength. And there are many of us in like in the United States, um, suburban lives, you know, that we don't really know what hardship is about, right? We don't have any idea of what strength is needed to do certain things. So to be reminded of any, you know, of people who have these kinds of stories is always very helpful. But I think we can usually find them in our own lives. Um and we do exactly.
SPEAKER_01Maybe the definition, you know, uh oh God, I don't wish for anybody that uh he or she has to travel half to Europe to get uh through Europe to get your partner back behind the front line. But if you look in your own life, how did how you overcame a problem or how your your friends and your family did? And um, I think we the dimensions might be different, but hardship or trouble or problems, they are they are maybe not the same in generations, but the way to overcome them that that is pretty similar, yeah.
SPEAKER_00And I think perseverance and resilience and persistence, those are all pieces of it, right?
SPEAKER_01Yeah, yeah, yeah. And grit a little bit that you say, uh what's the word that you would use for grid, grid, okay? So there is there is it's hard to say don't give up. I think this is not a very good sentence. It to me personally, the better sentence is there is no reason to give up. There is no reason, there is enough, enough stuff, even if it might not look at it right now, because you're you know, you're in front of a corner and you can't see around the corner. But to know that there is there is no reason to give up, there is enough to do. Yeah. Maybe elsewhere, maybe not at the space where are you where you are right now, but enough to do.
SPEAKER_00Yeah. Um, I like to say you can't see what's around the corner until you go around the corner.
SPEAKER_01Exactly. Exactly. You have to that's why you have to move a bit. You have to you have to go somewhere to go places. It's like, duh. Places don't come to us.
SPEAKER_00No, and and Katya, we have to have other people say these things to us sometimes. This is why we have good friends, this is why we have coaches, this is why we we listen to each other. And I think that's really, really important. Do you have a habit that you do on a daily basis that kind of keeps you in that mindset of, and I love that you said it wasn't don't stop, it was keep going, right? Do you have a habit that kind of keeps you in that mindset?
SPEAKER_01Habit sounds like I have to do it every day. Um it's not an everyday thing, but it's an it's a it's a regular thing, and it has to do with the curiosity. Um when I am somewhere, even if it's a place I know, doesn't matter. New places that it comes easier when you're in a new place. Uh, but even in places I'm I'm regularly in, it can be a cafe or a bar or a shop. Um entering the place, and for me as a person who rather goes to action quickly, this is another a very good reminder not to do that. Go there and look around for a while. Oh, what changed? Uh, different people, um different stuff in the store, um, different menu, uh, a different building, right? If you go to Shanghai, I probably if I be there, I have to go there every two weeks. In Dubai, they called me. You have to come here every nine months. It's like, whoops, because the city is reinventing itself. So stop, stop and look around yourself and just take in what changed, what stayed the same. To me, that is a quite helpful and nice habit.
SPEAKER_00Call it, let's call it a habit. Yeah, yeah, I think that's a lovely habit. You know, a habit is just something that we we either we either taught ourselves intentionally or we do in order to um in order to make things easier for us, right? It's like habits are things that we put in place that help us not have to do something very, you know, super intentionally or put a lot of effort into it. And if you do that more often than not, then it's really helpful. Um more often than not, that's a good word for it. More often than not, that is indeed true. Yeah. And you know, we joke about living in one spot for 11 years and having never seen the sites. And that to me, my friends and I we joke about this. Like, this is a travesty. We need to go to these places, and we just haven't been because we get so bogged down in the everyday whatever and and the the the grind. And so I think that that's a beautiful reminder to continue with that curiosity.
SPEAKER_01And to in in what I do with my husband uh regularly, not every day, that we have so-called and now for something different days or weekends. Okay, tell me. Everything is going to be different. Everything. You let's say we would have tea in the morning, and we would say we have tea in bed. It's Saturday, and we would start with tea in bed, usually. Uh we would say let's okay, we have champagne at the beach at seven in the morning. So like whole now for something different, the days or weekends. Like you turn, you turn everything upside down and do things differently. If you usually uh take the bus, um let's take the train or the other way around, right? If you usually go to the cinema at eight o'clock in the evening, you go at 11 in the morning. Uh, if you usually have lunch, let's have a late supper, an hour before midnight. Something, you know, like exactly. So you you you challenge every everything you do and you find an alternative that is as wonderful as the other thing. And that is a lot of fun. That does.
SPEAKER_00Do you call them and now for something different days? Do you yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.
SPEAKER_01We call them like that. And now for something different days or weekends. Awesome.
SPEAKER_00I love that. That sounds like a lot of fun. Um, because especially in families, you know, we try to put some rituals in place to kind of have like a cohesion. But um, this fall, you know, in in Virginia, we do local high school football, and my son is going to be in high school next year. And I said, This year we're putting football games, even though he's not in high school, we're putting football games on the schedule, on our family schedule. And both of them were like, We have to, like, yes, we have to. It's I guess it was my own version of and now for something different. And the first game we went to, both of them went like, okay, mom's making us go. And at the end, my husband looked over in the car and he said, I have to tell you, I felt like this was mandatory participation, but I had fun.
SPEAKER_01Exactly.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, amazing.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah, yeah, yeah. And you know, surprises are, I don't know, are waiting for you at the most unexpected places, right? So, yeah. I mean, of course, we don't do that every weekend, but no. Well, then it wouldn't be something different. It wouldn't be exactly and it would drive us crazy, to be honest. I don't want to have uh champagne at the beach every weekend at seven o'clock and no.
SPEAKER_00But it still sounds lovely. Yeah. So on this show, one of the things we do is we share your story that kind of helps women hear from a perspective that might be similar to their own. But if someone is looking to kind of follow in footsteps, we like to get what we call green flags instead of red flags. Red flags tell us don't go there. Green flags say, oh, this is an indicator that maybe this is a direction I should head. So for someone who may be a younger woman, because I tend to work a lot with women in their early to mid-career for whom communication may or may not be interesting, or they might find that it's something that they could do, what are some green flags they could look for that would tell them I should go in this direction because I might have a gift I could share?
SPEAKER_01Um one of the things is when you uh when you hear or see some someone speak somewhere. Let me be be very generic here, right? It could be a stage, it could be in a in a meeting, it could be in a conversation in a cafe, a person you do not even know. And if you if you follow that conversation, you listen to that, and it resonates with you for uh whatever reason. One of the things, a very green flag for me is say it to that person. Okay, go there, go even let even if it's a stranger, even if in a cafe you for you you've you you overheard a conversation, and you there was something in that conversation, a thought or in a sentence that really spoke to you. Say it. If there was something that your your boss said, or the CEO of the company you work for, um, if if that moved you, write an email, send a message, say it, and say it very specifically. Don't be generic. And I'm sorry, I'm be me being very European here. You know, the US people very often say, like, oh, great job.
SPEAKER_00Oh, yeah. My husband's a pastor. My husband's a pastor. So people say, Great sermon, pastor. Yeah. It's like, what about it really hit you? What made it yes, what is it that makes a difference for you? Thank you.
SPEAKER_01So be very specific. When you give, when you say that that this or that hit you or triggered you, or you like, be very specific, right? So when when you told the story about how you how you screw together your first bike, that moved me because of one, two, three. So be very specific, but say it. That these two things is for me a very green flag. And I I I think uh every day there is something remarkable. Someone someone says, and we should tell each other more what we found more remarkable. Um, that that is a green flag, and then and another green flag for me. Uh, in intercultural um things, I always work with uh you know commonalities and contrasts. Okay, my green flag is uh go to the contrast, go to the borders, go to where things are not in the comfort zone. Because remember, when we travel, right? We treat we travel to places because we want to say, oh, this is wonderful. So different. I remember one of my favorite places Hong Kong. Oh, us too. And being my very first time in Hong Kong, I was totally overwhelmed. There's a lot. Oh yeah. And it's wonderful. Being overwhelmed like that is wonderful. Right? So go to these, go to the wonderful places and marvel at them. Don't go to the things and start with, oh, this is good. We have that in common. I rather recommend as a green flag, go to the places where people are absolutely doing things a different way and marvel at it. That's a green flag because this is where adventure arrays. To me, that's that's a green flag. And what is another green flag? Yeah. Yeah. I think those are good. And thank you. Uh a third one. Um dive deep. Okay. We have the tendency, and this is something that actually, and that's not a good thing. It's gone worse over the last two decades. We start to become shallow. And I think that knowledge deep dive, knowing something deeply from all sides, from all angles, that is that is an asset. So it doesn't matter if it's shoes or chewing gum or scissors or traveling by plane or a train or whatever. There should be one, two, or three things in your life where you really, really go deep and dive deep and know everything about that.
SPEAKER_00And what does that do for you? That gives you what the ability to speak to them, the or just or is that just a character development?
SPEAKER_01It gives you a lot of self-confidence. Knowing things helps us to speak up. Right? So that is and and then again in getting to know things, have a look how do other cultures do that. And one of the tips I and I tell that all my clients, just as an you know, as a finger exercise, that they should instead of having Google as their start page, find the website of a very foreign newspaper in a language they do not speak. Right? Let's assume you would go to um the the the the uh the starting page of Aftenbladet, which is one of the uh Swedish gossip magazines, okay? So daily, very gossipy in Swedish. This is good, this is good because it will just open up your mind. If you go to the newspaper you always go to every day, you won't learn anything, but go to the the most known Finnish website, even if you don't speak any Finnish at all, and you'll find that people there have totally other things on their priority list than you do. And I think this is this is making us rich in experience.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, that makes you it makes you not just deep but wide, right? It like it really fills it fills out. So for many people, so I grew up overseas, so I grew up hearing and speaking different languages. That to me doesn't like I went and looked at your Twitter feed. I'm like, oh, it's all in German. Um not true, it's not true, it's not true. Well, the thing I scrolled enough to only see German, but I did find one thing that you shared.
SPEAKER_01Three languages, and I think actually the Twitter is fooling me sometimes because I really tweet in three languages uh in German, in Dutch, and English, and depends on what yeah, for you know, for American people, yes, for Europeans I'm I'm I'm average. Okay. Um one of my best friends speaks five languages, and I'm always like, ah, you see, I should learn one more. But actually, language is or speaking another language. Look, if I wouldn't speak English that that well, we couldn't have this conversation. That would that would be a shame, right?
SPEAKER_00Yeah, because I don't speak German or Dutch. Well, and I, you know, growing up overseas, I feel like Americans are always the most arrogant in the whole language sphere because we think that everyone's supposed to speak English and that everyone's supposed to understand us. But I grew up overseas where it was imperative that I learned how to speak, at least get along and get around in Korean. I needed to understand.
SPEAKER_01Yeah.
SPEAKER_00And so um how did that go? It was it easy? Well, you know, when you're younger, you hear things differently and you can pick up things differently. And my first year that I was there was my I was eight. And so in school at that time, they actually were still teaching us in this foreign school. It was a school founded by missionaries, they were still giving us Korean language as part of the curriculum. So I learned the Korean alphabet when I was eight, which it's a very easy alphabet to understand. It's very similar to um, well, it's just kind of blocks and and and circles and lines. So it's it's not like the Chinese characters of however many thousand. But I because I heard it early, I can, when I do speak the little Korean that I know, because when you're in academia, especially in medical academia, there's a lot of Korean students that come over and and do work. And whenever I would say anything to anyone in Korean, they would just immediately start because they think that I speak it because my pronunciation is quite good. So um it it went fine. I didn't understand the value at the time. You know, when you talk about being younger, I this was in the 80s and I, you know, 70s and 80s, and I did not understand the value of really understanding and speaking Korean. Um, my family is going back uh later um in the next few months from when this will air. I don't know if we're gonna get to go with them, but my sister and I have both been joking about oh, we need to brush up on our Korean. So she's got Duolingo going, and um, so and we're watching some Netflix shows that to kind of get the the the Korean back in our brains. And it's amazing how much you remember. And um, it just you know, it just kind of helps you think differently because even like I did take Spanish in school, but Korean is you read from top to bottom, right to left, right? So instead of reading left to right, and they joke about on video, you can see this, but English, you read left to right, left to right, which like shaking your head no, but Korean you read top to bottom, top to bottom, which is like shaking your head, yes. And it just all those things just add a layer, I think, to you that even if most people don't know that I grew up there, there's a layer to me that they they see a depth that that they may not understand. So I really appreciate that advice a lot. Um, for anybody who wants to hear more from Katya, um, we're going to put all of your stuff at at the uh in the show notes, all of your your links and everything. Um, but we are going to be going live the week that this podcast airs and we're gonna get some actual teaching from you. We've gotten a lot today. It seems like everything that comes out of your mouth is good teaching. So I'm sure the the live that we do is gonna be phenomenal. So you'll wanna pay attention to that. But um, where is the best place for people to find you online?
SPEAKER_01Oh, my you know, my name is uh quite quite uncommon. So it's easy to find me under katjaschleicher.com. Okay, which is the easiest one. Of course, I'm on LinkedIn, I'm on Twitter, and I'm TikToking since a couple of weeks. Um we're gonna have to connect. Yay! Fine, find my ways bit by bit. Um by the way, without the dancing, right? Oh, I don't do any dancing either. Yeah, yeah. So that and and for for everybody else, uh, there is this this thing uh you might remember it's called the telephone, right? Yeah, it's still in use, it still works, and people actually, when the telephone rings, I pick the telephone up if I'm available, and then I say, hello, this is Katia. What can I do for you? So it's worth trying.
SPEAKER_00Okay, and is that listed on your website?
SPEAKER_01Yeah, of course.
SPEAKER_00Okay, excellent. Well, that's not that's not an offer many people make anymore. Really? No, but then I hear their voices.
SPEAKER_01It's it's not, I mean, many, many people write in yeah, many people write an email before can when is the best time to call you? That is fine too.
SPEAKER_00But yeah, yeah, cool. Okay, well, we will put all of that information in our show notes. And before we go, Katya, we always ask what is the one thing that you can be optimistic about, even when everybody thinks you're crazy. And it doesn't have to be serious, it can be silly.
SPEAKER_01No, no, no. It's no, it's no. I'm I'm very serious about that because it's like life itself. Okay, imagine that we there we do it, there we live it. This is this is a reason to be optimistic about. Oh my god. Yes, that we actually do it every day and every day in you. I think this is wow, yes, this is a reason to be optimistic. Amen. If there is little love in their life, it's getting even better.
SPEAKER_00I love this. Thank you so much. This has been absolutely delightful, and I can't wait to talk to you again and for everybody to hear um the wonderful things that you have to share and to learn about you more online and maybe even take advantage of some of your coaching and teaching, that kind of thing. So thank you so much.
SPEAKER_01You're so welcome.
SPEAKER_00It was a pleasure. Thank you. See what I mean? She is so much, and it is so wonderful. I can't wait to share my main takeaways in just a sec. But first, let's look at how Katya embodies the tenets of intentional optimism. As a reminder, I do this for every guest because we all live unique and different lives, and while what we do is different, intentional optimism is how we do what we do. It's the attitudes and mindsets that we employ and embody to live out our own goals and dreams with excellence. And I do want to point out here that none of my guests actually set out to live the tenets of intentional optimism. While I am purposeful and, well, intentional about both teaching and employing them myself, I want you to see how they show up in amazing female leaders who may have never even heard of them. They are universal principles that when pulled together create a philosophy by which I live and share with you. Alright, so first let's look at optimistic. Conscious hope and confidence shine through when she speaks about having enough information to just take the next step, and then believing that eventually the answer or solution will show itself. You just have to keep going. She's present. I loved her recollection of her earliest leadership memory, where she went up and down the aisles of the airplane at three or four years old, introducing herself to everyone. That curiosity, constant and well-curated, keeps her present in new ways every single day. Energetic? My word. Her joie de vive is evident the moment you see her. She has these dancing blue eyes. And she has no issue with sharing it, which means that she brings the energy to each interaction in such a positive way that you leave feeling energized. Don't you love people like that? She's courageous. Her comment, go to the borders, she said. Go where you don't understand or aren't familiar with something, those edges. That's where the adventure awaits. Y'all, that's the fun side of courage. She's wise. This is where Katya's love and true understanding of words and how they land with others makes such a difference. To share that wisdom with others is a true gift. And intentional? How many people do you know who have, and now for something different today's? She intentionally keeps her mind open, her senses sharp, and her curiosity tuned in so that she can grow at all times. Katya is unconventional in her leadership because her passion for words, what they mean, and how they come across to the hearer is a reflection of her core values of things like curiosity, adventure, and connection, which make her a great role model for all of us who desire to make an impact in our own spaces. Remember, unconventional leaders lead at every level, in any area, using their unique gifts. Now, my takeaways from this conversation are those green flags and stellar advice. If you want to become a more impactful communicator, whether just in general or in business or actual speaking from a stage, here are some things to look for or cultivate in yourself. First, when someone says something that resonates with you, go tell them. And be specific. Too often we keep our amazed opinions to ourselves or just share with other listeners. When you tell the speaker how it hit you, you train yourself to listen more carefully and you give them the gift of feedback. Number two, instead of always gravitating to things, places, ideas, or people who are familiar, go to the contrast, the borders. The way she explained it was there are commonalities and contrasts, and she said, always go to the contrast. This is where adventure awaits. Gosh, I say that, I've said it twice, and I still get cold chills. I guess I need to go back and tell Katcha. And number three, dive deep. We all have a tendency to be very shallow. We talk about the weather, sports, our job. We skim the news, we take in a little bit about everything, don't we? But she pointed out that knowing something deeply from all sides and all angles gives you self-confidence. I'd never really thought it through. I even mentioned that when I talk about things that I know well that are like basically my thoughts, I'm not afraid to speak, even on stage. But having her point this out really brought it home. Also, when you know a topic, or three, she suggested very well, it helps you speak up. She even suggested ways to go broad on the things that you've already gone deep on. For instance, how do other cultures do that, whatever it is? I have a dream, my personal dream, of experiencing my two major religious holidays, Christmas and Easter, in as many cultures as possible. Hmm, that tells me I might be a little bit on track. Now, what aspect of Kotcha's story inspires you? What were your biggest ahas or takeaways? I'd love to hear them. Would you give us the gift of a five-star rating and review, or grab a screenshot where you're listening to this episode, post it on social media, and tag us both. We'd love to hear what resonated with you. Specifically. See what I did there? Now, if you'd like to hear more from Katya, she and I will be live the week this episode airs on my guest speaker series. The YouTube link for my channel is in the show notes. So if you don't catch it live, you can always check out the replay. Now, if you're the proactive type, you could just subscribe to my YouTube channel and you'll be notified every time I go live, and you'll never miss any of our great conversations. All of Katya's contact information is in the show notes, as is mine. So take this information and run with it, my friend. Head out to those margins, those borders. Until next time. Oh good, you're still here. Because I have one more invitation for you. My newsletter, Optimistic Living, is full of good stuff, delivered straight to your inbox. So for weekly encouragement, tips, and even some special offers, hop over to my website and sign up. Because unconventional leaders meet at every level, in any area, using their unique gifts. And you, my friends, are a leader. You are the future of leadership and the role models for future generations.
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