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Stand Tall & Own It
Something shifted. You can feel it. You just can't name it yet.
Stand Tall & Own It is for women in the second half of life who are high-functioning on the outside and quietly disoriented on the inside. You built your life inside systems you trusted completely — until you realized you couldn't tell what was actually yours from what you'd just learned to navigate well.
Host Andrea Johnson doesn't offer formulas. She offers honest thinking, sharp observation, and the kind of conversation that makes you pull over and sit in your driveway.
This is where the real work starts.
Stand Tall & Own It
30. Better Through Leadership -Iggy Perillo
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Iggy has spent a lot of time outside entreating fifth graders to jump out of trees while hooked to ropes or scaring the crap out of them by hiking in woods at night under the guise of environmental education. After ratcheting up the intensity she progressed to instructing personal growth oriented canoe/backpacking and dogsled/ski expeditions in the Boundary Waters Canoe Area Wilderness. Doing this work with teens and adults made her realize that as the age of the participants increased it was her job to make sure the sophistication and impact of conversation topics kept pace. Along the way she earned a Master’s Degree in Experiential Education and a teaching license in English Language Arts while completing training on topics like: conflict resolution, restorative justice and mental health first aid mixed with technical wilderness travel and safety skills. Iggy cultivates masterminds and brings together leaders so they can be more awesome in their work, sport or life.
Topics discussed in this episode:
- Leadership Principle
- Take an active role, make change happen
- Make your voice matter in your own life
- Don’t Practice Crap
- Constantly learn
- Key Habit
- Keep things that matter in the forefront of your mind
- Put it on your calendar - schedule it
Now what?
- Try new things
- Intentional introspection - be clear with yourself of what you want, where you want to go
- Capture it in whatever way matters to you
Ask yourself:
- If you can’t find a role model - you’re on your own path
- What skills do I need
- If it’s scary - it’s probably right
Resources mentioned in this episode: (As an Amazon Associate I earn from qualifying purchases)
The ONE Thing: The Surprisingly Simple Truth Behind Extraordinary Results
Atomic Habits
Questions Are the Answer: A Breakthrough Approach to Your Most Vexing Problems at Work and in Life
The Big Stretch: 90 Days to Expand Your Dreams, Crush Your Goals, and Create Your Own Success
Where to find Iggy:
Website: WSL Leadership | About
Instagram: @wslleadership
LinkedIn: Iggy Perillo - LinkedIn
Podcast: https://www.wslleadership.com/podcast
Mastermind info: WSL Leadership | Masterminds
Get involved!
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You are listening to Intentional Optimists. If it's for unconventional leaders, where you'll find inspiration, learn to discover and develop your own strengths, and fearful inspiring women just like you who are making a difference in their community. Who knows? You just might find yourself stepping up as the next unconventional leader right where you are. I'm your host, Andrea Johnson, the original intentional optimist. Hey y'all, welcome to episode 30. You know, I love me a good day hike, especially with my husband and my son and my dog. And while we don't do it often enough, we do live close enough to the Blue Ridge that we can simply drive over and enjoy some amazing Shenandoah trails. But please, do not make me spend the night out there, even in one of those cabins. I don't like bugs, snakes, bears, none of it. But I do see the amazing teaching opportunities inherent in wilderness type activities. I personally have gone out and climbed trails as a physical means of working through some emotional or mental challenges. So when I had the opportunity to meet and chat with Iggy Perillo, I knew it was going to be a good conversation. But I was wrong. It was a great conversation. Her approach to teaching leadership principles from her own unique perspective, which includes teaching you how to cook over a campfire, canoeing, carrying everything you need in and out of the wilderness in a backpack, and the power of discovering what you're capable of in the context of a physical challenge out in the wilderness. Wow. We discussed everything from basketball pep talks to great books to roller derby. You're gonna love this one. Hold on to your hat. Here's Iggy Perillo. Hey Iggy, welcome to the show.
SPEAKER_00Thanks so much for having me here, Andrea.
SPEAKER_02Um, I've just shared a little bit of who I know you to be and the things that I find exciting about you. But why don't you, in your words, tell the audience a little bit more about you, your background, what you do now. Um, what makes you unconventional?
SPEAKER_00It's it's kind of funny. It's like, well, what makes you unique? Like, I don't know. I just live my life. Right. Like I think we're all just kind of out there doing our thing. I think the parts of my story that you might find more interesting are around right now. I cultivate masterminds for athletes and professionals. So I bring together folks that are often in leadership roles, but in sort of unique and niche communities sometimes to help them work together better. And my background is in leading wilderness expeditions. I've done that for the past over 20 years, um, mainly in the summers, but also in the winters. So I've started my leadership journey in a lot of ways, helping other people develop their leadership while on an expedition nor usually in northern Minnesota, uh in the boundary waters, canoe area wilderness. So in the summer, canoe expeditions expeditions and the win and folks learn very quickly the value of being a team, taking care of themselves, leading themselves, leading their teammates when you have places to go and everything is with you on your back or on your sled.
SPEAKER_02Wow. Um, I have to tell you, that scares me to death. Um and um we did have Zoom cut out just a little bit for us there, but I just want to confirm um that you actually take people out into the wilderness in order to help them be in an environment that taps into their leadership skills. And then you kind of capitalize on that. Is that what you basically do?
SPEAKER_00Yeah, that's part of what I've been doing. And now I've moved more to the indoor world. But yeah, for many, many, many summers and winters, helping folks just understand that when they're out of their normal environment, I think that shakes people up a little bit. They have to be a little more intentional about what they're doing and why they're doing it and how they're impacting uh how they impact the people around them. And if you're in a small team of seven or eight people, it's really clear really quickly what you're doing and how you're impacting other people. And part of that whole process is having people take on intentional leadership roles and so they can try it out and learn. There's training along with it too, but also some intentionality around, like, yeah, but you know, you're maybe more shy or quiet person or that's kind of retreating a little bit, giving them the day, the day to be like, you're the leader today. What if how are you gonna lead? What's gonna be authentic to you, but not you don't have to be like the person yesterday or the person tomorrow. Like, how are you gonna do this in a way that is effective, useful, meaningful, and authentic?
SPEAKER_02Well, and they've got you there to make sure that they don't like fall off a cliff or um or create some kind of crazy survivor situation where everybody wants to kill the leader or you know Yeah, we avoid those.
SPEAKER_00We avoid all those situations, as well as getting sucked down waterfalls. Like that's not that we don't do that.
SPEAKER_02So, what so are you just an outdoorsy person automatically? Is that that's what's authentic to you, or did you develop that skill in order to teach leadership? How did what was the genesis of that?
SPEAKER_00Oh, that's a tough one. I think my family sort of grew up when I was growing up, we did car camping a lot. We went to national parks or state campgrounds, so we were, I guess, yeah, outdoorsy-ish, but um comparatively, like we were always car camping. We didn't do backpacking trips as a family or things like that. So I think that was part of my history of being outside and just enjoying that and sports and athletics and the physical nature of being outdoors. So I don't know. I guess that was part of me, and then finding a way to also teach and educate and train people to make the world a better place through leadership development. I think that's just like mingled these two passions of mine together.
SPEAKER_02That's a good answer. I'm not worried about it being a hard question. Um, it's always good to have people think, and um, when it sounds like that's what you do for other people is you help them think. Um, you said your your other passion besides being outside, which I got my my blinds closed behind me, and it's finally a gorgeous sunny day out in central Virginia, but um I try to go out as much as I can. And but I again the whole backpacking, and there's a whole whitewater rafting thing that sounds fun to me. I've done a little bit of it and I want to do more of that. And I mentioned that I grew up sailing a little bit as a child and a teenager, and the more I write about that kind of stuff and the more I explore it, the more I told my husband, I said, Okay, you realize we have to get a sailboat. And he's like, I'm like, no, I gotta get back into this. I need to be outside, I need to teach because there is that aspect. Um, and I love that you mentioned it. When we're not in the environment where things are automated, we have to actually think about what we're doing.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, it wrecks all our habits that we have. And I think that some of our habits are not don't serve us well, like fundamentally, like our habits of communication, our habits of how we lead and interact with other people. Like we just sort of get into a flow of and sometimes sometimes they serve us well and sometimes they don't. I love the mixing it up by yeah, a literally a new environment, you know, out of the woods, out in the wilderness, sailing, whatever it is, just someplace different to yeah. I think it helps.
SPEAKER_02And we've all kind of had to do that um with this pandemic, where we've my whole team and from my job has like come off of campus off-ground. So we are now doing everything remotely. And let me tell you, it's not always been a happy sailing road.
SPEAKER_01Oh, yeah.
SPEAKER_02I'm sure it's not, and um, you know, still most of us are working remotely. And um, so I think that most people can identify with the idea that we've had to do something different, the idea that we've been out of our normal environment, out of something that feels um comfortable, because we all like to feel comfortable. But you you and I both know you you can't grow when you're comfortable.
SPEAKER_00Absolutely not. Yeah, that's stagnation, it's comfort. But yeah, it's nice sometimes.
SPEAKER_02Yeah. Um, so when you talk about your two passions, let's go back to you said that your second passion was making the world a better place and teaching people how to tap into those things. When did you develop that or understand that that was kind of a passion for you? Are you just a natural helper or a natural teacher?
SPEAKER_00My like my family are educators fundamentally going back. So there's that. I'll think a little bit. And I think the for me, oh I mean, if I really had to dial it back, I would say it was doing athletics as a as a young person in through school, like middle school, high school, and college athletics, because I think that's when people really like the effect of teamwork really became obvious, right? Like if either our team is working together or we're not, and it is really clear really quickly. And so the impact of a leader in that environment was really clear. Like, oh hey, we things obviously are flowing better now that we have organized, we're on the same page, we know what we're doing. There's you know, leadership is effective in this situation, whatever the situation is. So I think that's where I sort of got the inkling of like, oh yeah, leadership matters a ton. And you could see teams with like great players, but they didn't do very well, you know, like like competitively. And you can see other teams with like, you know, you're like, oh, their skills maybe aren't so great, but they're really cohesive, they're really working together well, they're really, you know, flowing together well. So that level of effectiveness I think I attributed to the leadership there. So I think that's maybe where that those ideas came from for me. Like as a as a practical, you know, person. I think it took me a while to figure it out, like, oh, wait, that's intentional. Like the leadership that people bring to those teams is not just like willy-nilly. And maybe when you're younger, you're just like, well, this is how it is. I don't know, you know, like, but as you're more thoughtful and intentional about it, I think it becomes much more obvious the impact that leadership can have and the the leadership skills that go into making that impact.
SPEAKER_02Yeah. Um, my husband's a baseball fan and a basketball fan. And uh you you can't really pay attention to professional baseball without looking at money ball. Um and I just I don't know if I was I was I don't know, sitting around doing something and on the television, like it was like some kind of default thing. But for some reason it was a story about the Lakers and their um when they back when Magic was there, they had literally what you described, all these great players. I think it was the Lakers. Um, I I think back in the 80s, maybe. Um, and it was they had all these great players, but they didn't have a comprehensive plan. They didn't have an intentional plan. And um, was it Pat Riley? I'm not the basketball fan, who's the coach? So maybe you're not either. Um I think so.
SPEAKER_01I'm not, yeah.
SPEAKER_02But what he did was he he put in like it sounded like money ball. It sounded like, you know, this is your this is your overall average, this is how you work, this is what we do, and then um tying that in with everybody else and helping them achieve their best average or their best um percentage, et cetera. And um, you know, when we start we start looking at those things, that's when we start paying attention to um being able to see what it is about the leadership or what it is about the way the team's interacting um that actually matters, you know. So it's almost a diagnostic tool. Um so you do right now, you do more indoor, you said, but um I I know I have a I've seen a picture of you like out in the snow somewhere. Um I'm like, oh, that's an Eskimo looking picture. Um, I don't know where you were in northern Minnesota, but I was in Hudson Bay.
SPEAKER_00I was in Canada. Hudson Bay, okay. Yeah.
SPEAKER_02Um, but so the more work you do now is indoor. So what exactly do you do? You said you work with teams. Do you work with businesses? I know I've seen on your website you work with roller derby ladies, um, which you might need to explain that too, because that's a whole different environment. It's really cool. Um, tell us what exactly what you do right now.
SPEAKER_00Sure. Exactly right now. I'm uh in the virtual world primarily due to for many reasons, like we all are. And I cultivate masterminds right now. So a mastermind is an intentional uh an intentional group that comes together for personal development in a group context. So I bring people together that want to develop and I can I develop, I cultivate leadership masterminds. So folks that are in leadership want to be more into their leadership skills, want to learn and grow and transform as leaders. I bring them together, we meet and um get into what makes them tick. And it's a supportive group environment, but it also holds people accountable. So it's this really powerful way for folks to learn about themselves as leaders while actively practically solving their leadership challenges they encounter, you know, at that moment. Hyper personalized. And then there's a space within this these kind of small tight communities where people are given the freedom to explore and transform and grow all at the same time. So that is what I'm doing now is cultivating masterminds for leaders. Okay. And in my spare time hanging out with you on an awesome podcast. I know, writing a newsletter. I have my own little sort of fledgling podcast, like just creating content, doing other things, connecting with folks, and you know, thinking about leadership topics. So my main the meat of what I'm doing is cultivating masterminds right now.
SPEAKER_02So and I'm very familiar with that. I'm as a John Maxwell team, uh, speaker, trainer, coach, that mastermind is kind of what we do. Um, I have some of my own. Um, and do you see this as like a permanent shift for you? Um, has the pandemic kind of made this a permanent pivot or you heading back into the wilderness?
SPEAKER_00Uh I might be in the wilderness part-time because it's super fun and I enjoy it. But for the most part, I think I can connect with so many more people online in a different way. Like my suddenly, and you mentioned roller derby. I'm can't I've been working with folks in the roller derby community. So I suddenly have a mastermind with someone in Australia, someone in New York, someone in Texas, and someone oh, where was the other person? Oh, in DC. So, like the the groups that I can cultivate are suddenly I can be much more specialized in some ways. So I had a mastermind that was all people in roller derby leadership. So it's a super specific subset of a population that I can work with. So I'm really enjoying that aspect of the virtual world and being able to find people and make cultivate groups that are really yeah, either specific or within a different certain industry or leaders that are sort of similar, and I can help find people that resonate in really fun and powerful ways that I think make really great mastermind groups. So I'm yeah, I don't know if it's I mean it's permanent for now. I guess I don't know what to say about that.
SPEAKER_02No, it's like we don't know how long this is going to be permanent or temporary.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, we'll see how it goes.
SPEAKER_02We're riding this one. Um, so let's go back to you mentioned growing up and doing sports and that kind of stuff. Um, I love to talk with people because we're talking about your personal story as a leader, right? So I love to talk with people and figure out what their earliest leadership memory actually is. Like, was it in sports? Like, maybe I don't know what all you played, but um, maybe tell us where you remember the first time you stepped up and said, it's not just that I recognize how the team works together is important, but I can actually be a leader here. Because that always shapes us, right? It shapes our mindset, it's it shapes everything.
SPEAKER_00Absolutely. You got a story for us? I do. One thing comes to mind when I was in high school, I played basketball through high school, and I was not the star player on our team by the same stretch, but I I loved it. You know, I enjoyed playing, I enjoyed the team, the camaraderie, the hard work, all these things. Our team was you know, average-ish, like we weren't, you know, spectacular. But I remember I don't remember what the actual situation was, but this is sort of like the classic movie leadership, right? I'm like, I need to give the team a speech right now. So I like I don't remember what motivated me. I don't remember the situation exactly. But I remember being like, the team needs a speech. I'm gonna be the one to give it. And I knew this was gonna happen. I don't remember if this was like the last team of the season or the game before we went to the next level, you know, like whatever it was. I'm glad like those details don't last with me. But the detail that does last was that I went home and I was like, I'm gonna put together a speech and motivate my team. And so, like, it was yeah, I think that was where I was like, I need to be more intentional about how I impact this group of people. And so I delivered my speech. I don't remember, I'm sure we didn't, you know, whatever.
SPEAKER_02Instead of saying, wait, now you gotta give us like a Hoosier story or something.
SPEAKER_00How did I think it was? I don't I don't remember us even if we won that game or not. Uh, but it was yeah, really about I feel like it might have been after the game when we were like, well, you know, we're we're still good people. I think that's like um yeah, I have a feeling that might have been more what it was, and so I think that started my like game time speech-ifying, which uh happened every once in a while after that. So, but yeah, there was this moment where I'm like, I need to say something to these people because I think this will help us be better. So yeah.
SPEAKER_02So do you think that was kind of the birth of the I need to actually help people be better? Because I mean you use the same words, yeah.
SPEAKER_00I think well, that was like I think uh an early actualization of that for sure. Okay, for sure.
SPEAKER_02So, what are the kind of the lesson? Did you learn lessons from that? Was it something that you I mean, like you said, every once in a while you would do it? Was it wasn't like the coach, it wasn't the coach said, Okay, Iggy, step on in. Time for the tech talk.
SPEAKER_00No, I totally would just took it on on my own. Uh the lessons from that were I think there was like a couple. I think one is that that I actually had a voice that I could share something that was valuable, like a rec, it was a recognition of my own power in some ways in that situation. Like, oh, I can do something. And people responded. Like my teammates, I mean, they listened, they responded, they, you know, whatever. I think that uh even if we didn't, you know, win the championship, whatever. And I I don't think that was necessarily my point. My point was to like unify our team. That seemed, I guess looking back on now, it seems like I I think I felt our team was sort of getting fragmented, and I think it brought our team together more was my goal. And so the that yeah, that I had that power myself, that people would listen and did care, and that it, you know, the impact was positive. I think were my big lessons I took away. And I think later my teammates, yeah. I mean, I think that I still related to my teammates as a teammate. They weren't like, oh great, well, now you're our other coach. You know, like I think I like was still a part of that same team, but like able to offer my ideas that were helpful and supportive to them.
SPEAKER_02You know, those are amazing lessons. And for you to be able to recognize that as a, you know, maybe you didn't recognize it at the moment. Probably not. As we look back, as we look back on things, a lot of times we can see what we learned and to be able to say, I have a voice. Do you know? I mean, I just got called chills. Do you know how many women don't think they have a voice? And this is one of the reasons why I do this, so that women can hear, no matter where they are, even if they're on an average-ish team that didn't turn around and win the game, um, that they actually can have a voice. We all have to learn that at a certain point, right? Um do you find that that has come through as a little bit of your message and how you teach people? I mean, as you look back over it, what is that a major theme?
SPEAKER_00I think so. I think helping people to me, leadership means like an active role in doing something, making change happen. And people can lead. Uh, my business uh is called WSL leadership, and the W stands for work, like people can be leaders in their work, S stands for sport. So people obviously leaders in sport, I love that, but the L is for life, and I think people can actually sometimes be better leaders in their own life, and that's very personal and that's very interactive. And so I don't think that we always need to uh put a leader on the sort of distant pedestal, like we are leaders in our own life, and having people take on those leaders take on their own life as an area for their own leadership, I think is amazingly empowering and helps people grow, change, you know, be amazing and do amazing things, but it really is about their personal life and how they're leading that and how they are developing their own skills to lead their life. And so I think that yeah, that I feel like I got off track with your actual question, but I can't that's where I think I see leadership being really personal and really pertinent to people and have making their voice matter. Like your voice matters in your own life. You might not be the boss of your company or the captain of your team, or you know, most of us are not, you know, Olympians, you know, winning gold medals. Most of us are not managers, bosses, captain, you know, whatever it is in our industry or our organization, but we do have our own lives to lead. And I think we can lead those with excellence too.
SPEAKER_02Okay. I 100% I'm like, just keep going. You're doing great. Um, because the as a personal growth person, um, that's my thing. It's that that's the first person you have to lead. And if you can't lead yourself, you have no business leading anybody else. I mean, so we're like both sides of the coin on this one, um, which I think it's lovely. And I've like drawn this big arrow in my notes from your personal lesson has become, you know, kind of became your message, kind of became um being able to say the way you tied it in with the life, being able to say, this is what I teach, and this is I've lived it, therefore I can share it, right? And that's kind of the best way we teach. Um, that's amazing. That's really, really good. Um, so that was your leader. Was that really a leader realization moment, or did that come later? Because sometimes we understand we have a voice, but it you may not have started into outward bound at that time. Um, is that maybe when you realized you were a leader? When was it that you actually thought, yeah, I'm actually the leader?
SPEAKER_00Because you know I think I had a a job title that said, you know, that was like trip leader. I'm like, okay, this is my official job title. I'm a leader now, which is very funny. Technically, my hour bound title is instructor, which I think is like much more thoughtful in terms of like I'm here to instruct. But in other sort of situations and permutations, like other, I work for a couple other summer camps and things. I'm like, oh, my job is leadership. Like my my job title is trip leader. You know, my job is leader or whatever, something very specific. And I think I don't know that that is it's weird that it has to be so external. And I think I, you know, I knew I had a voice, I could impact people or whatever, but I think there was this point where I'm like, oh, I am in charge of this now, or I'm sort of in charge of other people, or I've like been in this, I've worked myself into a position where I need to be thoughtful and much much more intentional about how I'm leading this group, you know, these people at this time. And I was usually in a co-leadership position. So a lot of the planning stuff went into how myself and my co-leader are gonna lead this group this time, you know, who's gonna do what, how we're gonna work together as individuals, but also as a team to make everyone around us better. So I think there was somewhere in probably my college age years, I got a job that had a leader as a title that that made it sink in, which is weird.
SPEAKER_02But so a lot another another topic or another subject that comes up a lot in many of these conversations and with my coaching clients, even with myself, I've noticed uh somebody we need somebody to give us permission, right? So it's like I don't know why that is. It just a lot of times it's that's the one thing that'll help break through that limiting belief that we have. I hate to use coachy language, but it's that one we just can't see it, and somebody will like shatter the mirror so that we can actually see through the glass, you know, and and being able to have that pin on your chest that says I'm the leader is like, oh, I have permission to actually share my opinion and actually make the decisions and and have, you know, turn around and say, follow me, I know the way. Um, and there's a responsibility that comes with that. You wouldn't have been ready for that with in your high school basketball uh days. No. Um, but a lot of that comes with experience. And I I it's I think it's great that it was this external acknowledgement that just kind of gave you that permission to say, oh, that's kind of what I am, right?
SPEAKER_00Yeah, I think there's a it's definitely a growth process for sure. Right learning, getting more comfortable, understanding my craft, understanding my skills. And somewhere in there, I can't think of the exact moment. You know, it wasn't like some big lightning bolt moment where I'm like, oh, I get to actually decide now. Like I'm the one making the choices here, and I have a co-leader and I have a team, and I have blah blah blah, you know, and I have the support system of blah blah someone hired me to do this, and whatever else happened, you know, all these other little pieces, but somewhere that's like, oh, we can do this my way, you know, a little bit, like it's like taking ownership for oh, like this is how it's supposed to go. Like I got my map, I got my, you know, I'm getting from here to there, but I'm I'm gonna do this how in a way that makes sense to me and not necessarily how my um how not not not how I was trained, but to put my own spin on it, my own take my own yeah story.
SPEAKER_02Yeah, yeah, my own story. And you know, we talked before we actually started here that um we actually before we started recording about how every single woman is created uniquely, and that's part of what I share in this podcast is that we all can lead from our own unique perspective in our own unique way, in our own unique situations. And I hate to overuse the word, but it's real, you know. I mean, I'm one of those people who doesn't mind the word snowflake because they're all different, and I think that's really awesome. But um, you know, it it means that you then took, I love you use the word ownership. You took ownership and you decided I can do this the way that makes sense to Iggy, that makes sense to me. And um, I I really like that. I think that's great. Um, so when you did this, you took on these roles on purpose, right? A lot of women I talked to are kind of unceremoniously shoved into it or they had to pick it up or something. And um, that that didn't bother you, evidently. This was something that you started doing in college and it just turned out to be a college job that you said, oh, I kind of like this, I'm gonna keep moving, or did you major in that kind of thing in college?
SPEAKER_00Uh I majored in philosophy. So uh definitely not having anything to do with outdoor environmental recreation, leadership, anything like that. But I do think now a lot about leadership and ethics. Like I think it's you know, it all we're all just a mishmash of everything we've ever done in some ways. So it sort of, you know, it informs kind of some of my thought process. But I think the I just enjoyed it. I mean, I pursued it because I enjoyed it. You know, that worked out for me.
SPEAKER_02And and that's a phrase that we need to hear a lot. Women, especially, um, a lot of times think we have to get a specific type of job. I mean, I left I left nursing school, like I literally had already had my stethoscope and my, you know, the little white shoes and everything. And I I just was like, I'm I'm out, I can't do this, I don't want to do this. And I ended up with a business degree, which is still not a whole lot closer to what I really, really want to do, which is basically relating to and helping other people. Um but to have the courage to step away. I mean, that was a big deal, and it didn't go down well with my parents. Um, but you know, at least business was something. So we we a lot of times think we have to have a specific type of job, or we have to be employed by someone else, or we have to have a retirement plan rather than saying, I enjoy this and I want to do it.
SPEAKER_00Yeah. I think there was a lot of time, a long time where my parents are like, I don't know they said this to me specifically, but they were like, when are you gonna get a real job? Like, when are you gonna stop doing summer camp? When are you gonna, you know, they didn't, they were very nice to not ask me so directly, and they were very supportive. But I think there was this part where they're like, eventually they're like, I guess this is what you're doing, okay. You know, kind of because it's not, I think I work seasonally, you know, like I didn't necessarily have a plan from summer to winter to fall, you know, of the next year. Like, I think there's uh a really a lot of different ways people can operate in the world that are not a nine to five, you know, 50 weeks a year, your two weeks of vacation. Like, ooh, that makes me cringe as a like as a life flow, but that works for people and that's great, and that is fine. And it's a lot of explaining to do to be like, well, I've been seasonally employed, that's why I have six employers on my, you know, whatever resume for any one year, you know, different different things like that. And I think it's yeah, you sort of have to find your own way sometimes. There aren't always really great models. I think we see this model of, oh, I started as an intern in this company, I work my way up, and then I'm the boss, you know, like this is beautiful linear dream that we have that is not necessarily realistic and but just a dream. Yeah. And it's it doesn't work for a lot of people, but I I think we probably both see the same thing about leadership. People have this idea of what leadership means. Yeah, yeah. And they're like, well, I gotta be this sort of firm, hard rock drill sergeant, and you're like, that is not authentic to you. And also no one likes to work with that person, so quit it, you know. So I think there's we sort of we tell ourselves stories that are not necessarily helpful to us and put it kind of try and shoebox ourselves in when I think more freedom or more authenticity would just serve people better. And I think we know when we're being in like engaged with freedom and authenticity because it does become more fun, like there's flow, right?
SPEAKER_02Well, it's I'm really understanding. I've taken my Clifton Strength survey and finder, and it's like, um, I'm really tapping into the idea that our strengths are the things that give us energy. And um, it won't surprise you my top strength is relater, at least I hope it won't.
SPEAKER_00Um not surprised.
SPEAKER_02And it maximizers number three. So it's like, how can I promote you? Right. I mean, it's just like it all shows up. And the things that I do on like a daily basis that I'm currently getting paid for are the things that are like way at the bottom, because it's not that I'm not good at them. And I think people need to understand there's a difference between the things we do well and the things that give us energy. Um, just because we do something well doesn't mean it's a strength. It's something that we've developed the skill. And the key is, and for me, a lot of those skills suck my energy, they sap it. Um, and I'm sure there's things that we all have to do in order to make sure that life flows properly. Um, so we develop those skills on purpose. But to be able to teach people that there's a freedom there, if you find the things that give you energy, that's where you need to start doing, right? That's where you need to actually plug in. So, you know, if if it's paying your bills working seasonally and you're happy, whose whose standard do you live by? Right.
SPEAKER_00And I would say the best example I can see of this is the entire global roller derby community. This is essentially like a hobby, right? A sport that's a hobby that no one gets paid for, but people build these entire nonprofit and for-profit organizations with some of them have hundreds of participants. People are there 20, 30 hours a week and practicing, playing, yes, and then running the business side of this entire sport, like it's um and building leagues and doing all this stuff because they want to, you know, because they're excited, because they're interested in, because they enjoy it, because of all these sort of intangible, you know, pieces of it. And like any sport, there's only one number one team, there's like everyone else's number two or lower, you know, like whatever it is, like and and there is growth, and you can see progress and you can see personal and team potential actualized. So I think, and it's this huge global movement, and it's primarily women, primarily run by women, prime, primarily led by women. And I think there's it's this kind of interesting undercurrent to this counterbalance to sort of the nine to five, here we are, ABC, you know, high school, college, career, you know, path. And they're the same women, you know. Like I'm I'm at the track watching people skate, and like, oh yeah, she's a lawyer. Oh yeah, over here she's a doctor. Oh yeah, that's there's a high school, like a high school student that just aged up to be on the adult team. You're like, great. Oh, wait, here's someone like they're a welder. Like, what a fantastic, you know, like it's a huge uh mix of women, I think, on this in this sport, but it is so driven by desire and by love and by you know passion. So great.
SPEAKER_02And it's it's truly unique. It's not something that people understand, number one. And it's not the it's not the roller derby of the 70s and the 80s. It's not, it's totally not. Um, and you know, uh, I am at a university and I was serving on staff senate, and as I made friends, they these ladies were calling each other by these very interesting little names. And I'm like, that's part of what are you guys talking about? Well, it turns out three of the 60 staff senators were roller derby ladies. And um, I was like, oh, you you need to tell me about this because this one does accounting and this one is an architect, and this one does environment. What? So um it it's here, even in like a small town, smaller type town. Um, it's everywhere. And I think it's just a really good example of women celebrating what you said, your voice, and you realize that you have some power and that you can do things differently, that you can do things. I mean, it's it's also exercise and it's also fun. And it's also, I mean, it's like a whole different kind of smack talk and a whole different kind of I was like, what are these names? Right.
SPEAKER_00So it's yeah, they're really clever puns and really funny a lot of times. Yeah.
SPEAKER_02And so they now, and then like in some of our correspondence, they would actually call each other by those names. I'm like, I know, but I need a key. I don't know which one is what. So right, you know, so um, that's a perfect example of just doing what you love. So the other thing, one of the other things I ask people is everybody has a leadership principle by which we operate, right? We just do, whether or not we acknowledge it, we have it. So I'm very interested to know if there's one leadership principle that would say defines kind of how you operate.
SPEAKER_00I have unfortunately I have two answers because I can't just do one. Uh, I would say for myself personally, I was I'm always learning, like constantly learning. Uh my strength finder, number one, was learner. So I'm surprised there, perhaps. But uh I'm reading, I'm talking to people, I'm connecting. I'm always like to me, it's like learning, learning, learning. And something else that I said once to some folks that has become uh a popular quote in some quarters is don't practice crap. And so the idea being whatever you put your effort and energy into, you might as well make it as as good as you can. And that doesn't mean we're always like doing everything. Yeah, absolutely. But if we practice crap, we perfect crap. So don't practice it. Like do your best to build habits, build, you know, processes, whatever it is for you that are not terrible. And I think there's this, you know, I'm not an unlazy person at times. Like, I mean, it makes me sound like I'm like super hardcore. I'm like, no, I'm not wait a minute, put that in a positive space.
SPEAKER_02You're not an unlazy person.
SPEAKER_00You're I'm occasionally a lazy person. Thank you.
SPEAKER_02What is how that I needed the spaghetti to come like all straightened out. Okay.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, there you go.
SPEAKER_02Yeah.
SPEAKER_00Uh, but I think there is something to be said for doing things well, doing things, you know, with attention, doing things that are gonna set you up better for the future. And I think when laziness becomes problematic is when we're like, well, I guess this doesn't matter. Well, I guess this doesn't matter. I guess it doesn't matter. Suddenly nothing matters and everything's kind of mediocre, and you're like, well, you've you've dug your own hole there. You know, and I think it's easier to not don't dig a hole. If you find yourself digging holes, stop digging.
SPEAKER_02Stop digging. Well, and this goes back to your comment earlier about um our conversation earlier about the being comfortable and being the hat how habits don't can't it's some habits just really don't serve us. And um, you know, I've heard it also said, what we we perfect what we practice. And you know, Larry Bird's famous for getting out there and you'd think I'm a basketball fan with all these today. I don't know where this is coming from.
SPEAKER_00That's all right.
SPEAKER_02They're just great examples of him getting out there every day and putting in the work, but he wasn't just throwing the ball up to at the rim. He was making the shots and because he wanted to make sure his skill was on point, you know. And that there were some, was it Taco Bell commercials a few years ago with Shaq where he was like, he had to turn his head funny to make the shot? And um, so he had to practice that way to actually make it go in, even though it was a really funky way to do it, he was practicing perfection just to make sure it goes in. Um, so as we when we start applying those kinds of principles, um, is there any kind of tip that for the whole I'm all on board with the whole personal growth learner thing? I mean, my goal this year finally is to like read a book a month, but I find I'm probably reading more than a book a month because I'm just really into it and I just love personal growth. Um, but on this other principle of don't practice crap, um how do you when you when you sell tell that to people exactly? I think you might have delineated a little bit, but maybe just like some steps on how to make sure you're not doing that.
SPEAKER_00Sure. Well, this is interesting tension because you don't want to practice crap, but you want to let yourself fail at the same time, right? And so we have this tension between, well, I need to make everything perfect then. I don't want to practice, I don't want to do something terrible and garbagey. So I need to be perfect, perfect, perfect, perfect, which is equally limiting and constraining and choking and you know, like just doesn't help people have the room and space to grow. And so I think one of the words there is practice. Like I'm practicing this, and practice means that you're gonna stumble, you're gonna fail. And so I would say, like, a great way to not practice crap, like a way, great way to enact this is to try new things, which might seem counterintuitive, right? You're like, well, how do I get how do I get better at something if I'm doing something new all the time? Like, cool. You're doing something new, you're experimenting, you're expanding. So to me, I feel view it as this very expansive energy versus I need to constrain myself to perfection or you know, something like that. So, my the practical application of this is doing something new, and even if it's shaking up your habit, I was talking with a person once about like, yeah, why don't you give up coffee for a month? And they shut that down. I'm like, okay, that's too much of a step for you. That I understand, that's fine. But like I would shut that one down too. Yeah, and it's great, it's not for everyone. But I think there are ways to try new things to to give yourself this sort of freedom to make your like send out some feelers, some energy out there. And so then when you're when you get, you know, you're like, oh, I've never tried this. Great. Then I have some energy moving that direction, fantastic. Then I can be like, oh, how do I make this a little better? Like, how do I improve this? How am I how is this useful? What am I what learning am I taking from this? Fundamentally is what you know kind of comes back around to for me. And I think all of that is part of like I need to try new things, I need to grow, I need to expand. And along the way, not just expand by trying something terrible. Like, well, I'm just gonna try, you know, eating cake for breakfast for a month. I'm like, well, maybe not a great idea. Like, I think we know how that's gonna go probably. But maybe there are other ways to, yeah, to experiment.
SPEAKER_02So that is gonna resonate with my audience, is gonna resonate with my Facebook group and my clients. Uh, one of the very first worksheets I put out there was literally called Try New Things. It's like 30 days of trying something new. And I've walked through that with my Facebook group a couple of times, and I will not forget one of them. I was in the middle of a 30-day one, and we went back when IHOP was still available around here. My son loved the big smiley face pizza, uh, not pizza, pancakes. And um, so we went and I wanted egg beaters because you know it's a little lower and kind of no cholesterol. And I wanted egg beaters with my harvest nut pancakes, right? So they didn't have them, they only had egg whites. And my son, who I'm like, try new things, try new things, says, Mom, egg beaters, egg whites, try them. You never know. You might like them. Like, all right, I'm gonna try a new thing. So that was my try a new thing that day. But if you don't like egg whites, don't try it because they're egg whites. But I do, it's and like even when you go in my Facebook group, that one of the first announcements is here's the try new things worksheet. And it's just a 30-day, this is the thing you can print off and just write it down. And it can, you know, I tell people the same thing. It kind of just, I love your your concept, your um, the phrase you use to shake up your habits. Um, sometimes we we leave products sitting in the refrigerator too long, or products sitting on the the shelf in the pantry or in our bathroom, and we have to shake them up because things they the sediment out, you know, out and they separate. And that happens with us, right? So if we don't try new things, then it's as if we've never shaken that bottle. And so when you go to turn over the ketchup, you get the water first and it's kind of gross.
SPEAKER_00So great analogy.
SPEAKER_02I well, I I also call myself the analogy queen. I'm the self-proclaimed analogy queen. I just love them because I think that the more we can visualize things in different ways, the more relatable things become. So um, I I really, really like that principle. Um, so the other thing I like to chat about is a habit or ritual, because usually when you have a principle, you have something, a habit or a ritual that kind of helps you stay on top of your goals, where you're headed. Do you have a particular habit or principle that does that for you?
SPEAKER_00Uh there's a big banner that says don't practice crap that hangs on the door of my house.
SPEAKER_02You're serious about this.
SPEAKER_00And I it was a present uh for my birthday or Christmas a few years ago that was made for me. And so whenever I leave the door, this is like the the door out of my house. Like I have like this banner hangs there. It's the it's sort of on a hallway. So you see it before you get there. So every time before I leave the house, which is weird that I'm because I'm literally not leaving the house very much. Right, I know. But you know, well, we're gonna get the idea.
SPEAKER_02This is this is available way past the pandemic. People can listen to this then and they'll be like, what is she talking about?
SPEAKER_00But okay, yeah, exactly. But I think it's to me that the ritual is like keeping it at the top of the mind. Like, if I think there are many things where like, this is a great idea, this is amazing, this really is a principle that guides my life, whatever it is. And then like I'm sure you've done this with people, you've done sort of a values clarification exercise, like, oh, here's my values, and then you ask them a week later, and they're like, I don't remember what they were again. You're like, cool. So these are your values, but you don't remember them, or these are you know your principles, but you kind of forgot them. So I think there is like to be intentional about keeping things in mind is just a I don't know, that that seems like the sort of meta habit, right? Like keep the things that matter in mind, like bring make them present, make them real, make them visible, you know, whatever kind of process works for you. And so I think the yeah, if you have values or if you have, you know, a mantra or whatever it is, like keep it in mind, use it, remember it, do whatever it is to make it real and relevant.
SPEAKER_02Let's introduce you to the post-it note. Right, right, it doesn't have to be a banner. Um no, but you know, this actually there's a lot of other sports examples too. I mean, there's Clemson, my my husband's a South Carolina game cock, so we Clemson is usually said with a not happy voice, but they have a rock that they hit on their way to the field, these football players. And there's other um teams will have like something above their door that they slap on the way out. You know, they jump up and hit them, not me. I'm only five foot one. So, you know.
SPEAKER_00I bet you can jump.
unknownYeah.
SPEAKER_02I I played um when I played volleyball, I was the setter. You know, I was always messing. I was the setter. I didn't have to jump, but I would always jump with the spiker, like if we were gonna block. And I never my fingers never made it above the top of the the net. Um I have no vertical leap at all. But I do have a banshee scream. And I cannot tell you how many times I got flagged by the ref. Like, you have to stop that. Um, but people, I would scream when I was doing it, and you know, it's like small but mighty. And people would cringe and it would use what you got, use what you got. So I did it until that particular ref told me to stop. And then I would wait for the next game and I would do it. The ref told me to stop. We use what we got, right?
SPEAKER_00Um, absolutely.
SPEAKER_02But that's true. I mean, we the the things that matter to us, we actually pay attention to. We measure them, we keep them where we can see them. Um, and if you think of that on even a personal level, the pictures that are around our house are things that matter, right? So we want to be reminded of them. Um, so on that, if we take it down to that kind of micro level, that's a really good example of just making sure that things that are important to us stay in front of us. And oh, well, then I have a question for you.
SPEAKER_00Like, oh, for your reading. Like, so you told me you've been starting reading. Do you put that on your calendar? Do you have reading on your schedule on your calendar?
SPEAKER_02I do. And I have um there you go. Yeah. So I have it on my calendar. I also have um a new planner this year that has a habit tracker in it, and it has like, so I write them down every Sunday so that I have it from Monday through Saturday or Monday through Sunday for the next week. And one of them is like, I just I introduced the topic in my Facebook group and it helped with the very first one. I said, just read 10 pages a day. And I I got that from Hal, oh, Miracle Morning. Um, Hal sorry, Hal, I forgot your last name already. Um, but I got it from Miracle Morning because he talked about the fact that if we read 10 pages a day, the average personal growth book is 280 pages, and you can skip a few days in a month and still read a personal growth book each month. And just in month one in January, we read Atomic Habits and Oh, so great. Yeah, and one of the ladies that participated said, I've never done this before. And just you telling me I only had to read 10 pages a day took the scary out of it, right? So there's the principle there of breaking it down, but also for me, um, when I go through and check off I had my this many glasses of water a day, I had so I have to look at that and go, Did I do that? No, I didn't. Oh, okay, I didn't read my 10 pages. So yes, I do.
SPEAKER_00Um yeah, tracking, calendar, scheduling. Yeah, I think those totally help people. Like you're not gonna some people are so attached to their calendar, they're not gonna do it unless it's scheduled, you know. Like I didn't make time for this, then you're actually not gonna do the thing you don't make time for. Like you absolutely put that on the top of the mind right there, but so great.
SPEAKER_02And Tuesday, I mean Tuesday. Tuesday's the second day of the week. Well, February is the second month of the year, so I'm actually gonna use that word for February's book club. We read the one thing. And um, so if you haven't read that one by Keller and Papasan, it's the whole concept of taking the big picture and bringing it down to what is the first, what is the one thing today that will get me where I want to be later? Or if what is the one thing I do today that will make everything else I do easier or irrelevant? And um, so I highly recommend it for productivity and figuring out your purpose and your direction and planning your goals. Um, but they are huge on time blocking. And you know, so it's like they talk about if you the the first things you time block are like your vacation time so that you know what you're working for. And yeah, then you time block for your one thing because it's the one thing that's gonna make everything easier. So um I love that. Put it on your calendar, schedule it. My husband sets up reminders for everything, um, even if it's take your medicine or brush your teeth. Like, I can't have a calendar that's quite that detailed, but he can. Um, so anyway, um, that's great. And I I love that. And I you may have to send us a picture of your banner so we can be cool. It's great. Um and I think that's really cool that somebody gave that to you. They know that that so that tells us that we know that really is your principle. Because if if somebody gave it to you as a banner, it had to be something that you say all the time. Um okay, so in this intentional optimists podcast, um, we like to also talk about the green flags for somebody kind of following in your footsteps, doing the kind of work you do. Most of the time we say, oh, well, those are red flags. I don't want to do those. But we're optimists around here. So we like to look at the positive opposite. So if someone wanted to know how to do specifically the kind of work you do, um, kind of like the outdoorsy stuff and the leadership through those kinds of things, because I know there are other coaches who who coach through outdoor trips or lead through those. What are some green flags that somebody might need? Because you said it's not necessarily consistent work and it's, you know, you got to be willing to sleep with the bugs and that kind of stuff. But what are some green flags that somebody might um look for in their own life?
SPEAKER_00Sure. The the number one that comes to mind, which is probably counterintuitive, is if you're there's something you want to do and you're like, okay, I kind of thinking about this, this seems like a good idea, but there's no role models out there. No role models is a green flag, people. Like if there were a million role models for you and you're like, oh, it's just like this person or this person or this person, cool. I mean, role models are helpful in many places, but I think if you don't have role models, that means you're on your own personal track and that means it's right for you. So I would green flag it if you can't find easy you can't easily find a role model. And I think there's, you know, people with pieces and you know, like, oh, I like how what a little bit of what they're doing, a little bit what they're doing, you know, like whatever great, great, great. You know, people are uh it can be inspiring and really, you know, blaze a path. But if you're are on your own path, no one's ahead of you. So you're you're you are your own role model.
SPEAKER_02Um what if that scares me?
SPEAKER_00It will be scary. That means you're doing it right. That means if it's scary and awkward and weird, that means you're doing it right. And that might mean, you know, I think people respond to fear by drawing back sometimes, right? They're like, well, this is I I don't know where I'm going. Why am I blazing a path right? And you know, I don't want to go off the edge of this cliff, right? You know, like there's this, you know, people want to hold back a little bit. And I think that's a place to be like, well, what skills do I need? What tools do I need on my journey? What is gonna give me the confidence that I can blaze my own path? I can go my own way. I don't need a role model. And so I think there is some self-reflection that comes in there. And some of that could be like, oh, what are my values? What are, you know, what's my vision for where I want to go? That's great. But also what skills do I need? Am I blazing my own path? But I really feel like I am not good at like I shy away from conflict. I need to be better at dealing with conflict. You know, I can work on my conflict resolution skills, or I can work on my communication skills, or I can work on my problem solving skills. Like there are little pieces I think to boost your confidence along the way. And some of that is just uh some time to reflect and and and look back on like, well, where do I need to like, yeah, get a little more confidence, a little more skill, a little more whatever, so I can keep going on my own path. But you're the secret is you're actually always on your own path, even though people don't want to admit it, but don't tell them that. But along the way, if you know there's no role model, then you you're doing super great. Like if once you recognize that, I think it's just that much more empowering.
SPEAKER_02I love that answer. I mean, I really do. And um and you said it with you said it so confidently and so passionately, it's just like, oh, I I I love that. Uh, I hope that that's the I hope that that's what we inspire people to do here. I hope that that's what we inspire people to um to not shy from that and to not step back from that fear. Um, we're not talking about Indiana Jones tossing the the gravel out over the the thing that he can't see necessarily. It might be, but um, you know, he really was safer than he realized. He just needed to do it and trust that he had the ability to do it. I had another guest that said, if an idea has come to you, it's been given to you for a reason. You need to embrace that and trust yourself. I'm like, oh. Um, so does that include the advice that you would give somebody if they wanted to step into those kinds of roles? Is that the advice you would give? Or were there are is there any practical advice?
SPEAKER_00I think I'm a big fan of being some intentional introspection. I think the like the first step is really being clear with yourself on what you want, where you are, what your skills and abilities are. And I think that is, and people can like some people are sort of good at introspection and some people are not. And you can learn more about introspection. You know, you can, I mean, this is the the door is open for books and coaches and podcasts, you know like whatever. Like, there's ways to like have people sort of help guide you into like figuring yourself out. I think understanding yourself or some inkling of yourself is really helpful along the way. And that just helps you be the best you, you know, version of you you can be. If you're like, well, I'm really a morning person, but you're not, and you like really try to be a morning person, you're just fighting your nature in some ways, right? And so I think I would um the practical side is just be intentional. And I think this is where even the simplest like journaling, writing, you know, noting whatever it is, like being intentional about yourself is good and reflecting, but also there's something very once you write it down or you know, have your journal, your Google Doc, whatever it is, it doesn't matter. Like that makes it much more real and present to be like, well, I'm a morning person, I'm a blah blah blah. Like, great, whatever it is, I would record that or capture that in some way that's meaningful to you. And some people that is like abstract art. Like, I don't need mean to like limit you to words or like whatever it is, like capture that for yourself in some way. And I think that will that helps people understand their foundation of where they're coming from. And it can be anything, you know, it could be very formal, like values and vision and you know, skill assessment and strength finder. Like, great. If that's what you're into, great. If you're just like, you know, I feel like whatever the the sun on at sunset over the ocean, great. It can be a metaphor. I don't care.
SPEAKER_02That's good, that's really good. Um, awesome. Thank you. This has been an amazing conversation, it's been a lot of fun. Um, so I will put all of your contact information in the show notes, but why don't you, because some people just prefer to listen, tell us where they can find you and what your kind of your main you said you're mastermind. So how would they, if they wanted to be involved in a mastermind or I don't know, be a roller derby lady, how do they find you? And um what can you offer?
SPEAKER_00Well, I would say contact your local roller derby league. So I don't know who they are. I'm sure they're making you. Uh for myself, I'm at WSLleadership.com and then I have, you know, a page for masterminds workshops. I host a twice-a-month leader meetup, like a free leader meetup. People can just join and converse and talk. I call it the leadership ecosystem lounge because you need a big name for things to make them sound fancy. But it's uh a friendly, uh, heart-centered leader meetup to people. I would love to have people join me there. And uh yeah, email, like literally just email me. And that's all on the website. As you can get the the vision from the website and then join me there.
SPEAKER_02And it's a fun website. It's there's a lot of stuff on there.
SPEAKER_00And I love talking to people. Like I think I'm I think somewhere in there you can just schedule a conversation with me. You know, you have to sort of it's not like blazed right on the front, but you know, if you're interested in masterminds, interested in workshops, interested in any of the work I do. Um, I mean, we had just had this fun conversation. I enjoy talking with people too, and it's low stress, low pressure. Let's let's figure out what it's gonna be like.
SPEAKER_02And this just goes right along with the trying the new things, right? It's like every person we meet, that's a new thing. And every time, you know, sometimes just doing something like like I participate in a monthly um coaches connecting kind of meetup, and I've gotten clients out there, and I, you know, it just it expands my knowledge and it just it's all great. And it's not, it's free as well.
SPEAKER_00And community support is so crucial. We're social creatures. Like we need these like communities around us to help us connect, grow, be the best we can be.
SPEAKER_02So absolutely, absolutely. Now, so on there, you said you have like a free thing that you offer, which is the meetup. Um, are is there anything special? Like, is there a discount code that you want to offer our people? Or um, do you just kind of have a standard, this is what we do?
SPEAKER_00This is what we do. I'm always offering free conversations. If you tell me that you listen to this podcast, though, we're gonna have a great conversation. I can say that if someone is like, I want to talk to you, I heard about you here. If you tell me that, I think that will just accelerate our the joy that we have in our oh, cool. Not really a me a free code, but like a reminder of a fun time will spark things off in a good direction.
SPEAKER_02So as we close, the one thing I always put people on the spot with. Are you ready for this one? Okay. It's not really a hot seat. And um, but I've gotten everything from really fun answers to really serious answers. And because we are the intentional optimists, we want to know is there one thing that you can always be optimistic about, even when everybody else thinks you're nuts.
SPEAKER_00Uh something I can always be optimistic about. I feel like I'm optimistic about many things. I people think I'm nuts when I'm optimistic about going out to doors in places where there are mosquitoes. I'm like, this is gonna be fine. This is gonna be just fine. It's not that bad. There's not that many mosquitoes, it's fine. So there's that very practical, and I think I'm always optimistic about trying new things. Like this experiment, let's try it out. We'll see what happens. So those two. I mean, the very tangible mosquitoes don't bother me, maybe, or I they won't bother you, and you're gonna be fine.
SPEAKER_02And I don't believe you. I know, exactly. I think you're nuts. Exactly.
SPEAKER_00Okay, we'll go out sometime. It'll be you'll be okay. Sounds great.
SPEAKER_02I have not yet been to northern Minnesota. I hear it's lovely. Um so as we close, is there anything else you want to share that I may not have asked about?
SPEAKER_00Well, I'm I just want to figure out more what you're reading about. So I'm just full of questions now. I mean, that's such a great sharing. Like, I want to know what you're reading. Maybe we'll talk about that later. Like, um, yeah, what are you reading right now? That's what I most want to share is a question.
SPEAKER_02Okay. I am reading a book called Questions Are the Answers.
SPEAKER_00How weird is that?
SPEAKER_02I know. So um, because I've I've learned about myself that number one, I want to interview people better, but a lot of times it's not so much specific questions, it's how we approach a subject. Um, the quote from Peter Drucker about the the most um what is it? Sorry. Um the most useless answer, the the most useless piece of information is the correct answer to the wrong question.
SPEAKER_00Oh, that's so good. Isn't that good?
SPEAKER_02So that really because I have this insatiable curiosity and I want to learn better how to ask the right questions to push me in the right direction. So um I have a friend who's reading it with me, and we're gonna kind of do our own little book club. So if you want to join us, I am happy to share.
SPEAKER_00I might. I'm I'm gonna write that down. So it's what tell me the title again one more time.
SPEAKER_02It's Questions Are the Answers.
SPEAKER_00Questions are the answers. Okay.
SPEAKER_02And what I'll do, I'll I'll give you the information afterwards. I'll have to post it in the show notes now because people are gonna hear this. Um and um and I will we'll put together like a little Zoom call. And anybody that hears this that wants to do it, it's probably now granted, this will come out after we do it. So um uh it'll be in March because that's the book I'm reading for March. And then in April, I think we might be reading The Big Stretch. So um, Tanisha Jackson Warner, I think. Okay. Um, and it's all about dream building and figuring out what your dreams are and the way you talked about people following kind of their own path. I think that's a really good book for that as well. So good grief. I may just have a new book club member here, um, which would be fun. So all right, well, that's right. Okay, she's writing it down, y'all. She really is serious about the personal growth. That is her own personal habit. She she wants to practice all of it. So, Iggy, thank you so much. This was a blast. I've really enjoyed getting to know you, and I look forward to many more conversations in the future.
SPEAKER_00Me too. Thank you so much, Andrea. It's been so fun to talk with you today.
SPEAKER_02Well, was I right? Iggy has such a pure energy and love for life. She truly lives to make the world a better place, one team at a time. So, how does Iggy live the principles and values of intentional optimism and unconventional leadership? Her optimism is front and center as she teaches each person how they can change and grow, thus affecting change in their own organization. And also in her ability to inspire confidence in the introverted team member that they have what it takes to actually be the leader. Her love for nature, the beauty and the wonder there, along with her generosity and sharing her expertise, all point to how present she's willing to live. Now there's no lack of energy here. Iggy honed her skills in both outdoorsmanship as well as leadership training in order to specifically teach and mentor others in that unique environment. And Iggy truly understands that wisdom comes from both inside and outside. She's happy to learn in just about any circumstance. She's encouraging and respectful in how she treats others, modeling the behavior as she teaches it. And intentionality seems to be in her blood. I mean, you can't go out for several days into the wilderness with a backpack and not make a plan. But she knows why she does what she does. Even though it doesn't always fit the mold that others prefer, and she's always ready to try something new, to make whatever it is she's doing better, more efficient, or more exciting. I think though if I have to pick one tenant that Iggy embodies most, it has to be courage. Iggy figured out early on that even though she might not be the star of the team, she could most certainly lead. She was willing to make a career out of adventure in a literal sense, but she chooses to see each challenge as a way to grow. And her don't practice crap motto that she sees every single day is testimony to the fact that she's committed to keeping her focus on the prize and dedicated to consistent actions in order to build solid character. Now she's unconventional in her leadership because her passion to help others any way she can is a reflection of her core values of excellence, leadership, and adventure. And these make her such a great role model, showing each person how they can step up and lead within their individual strengths and skills, and that personal growth is imperative to leading and making a difference. Unconventional leaders lead at every level, in any area, using their unique gifts. And Iggy is wholly dedicated to making this a reality in both her life and yours. This conversation was so rich and full of amazing tips, but here are some takeaways that really stuck with me. First, try new things. On this, Iggy and I agree like 100%. I even have a one new thing journal page that you can print out and use it to track yourself in trying one new thing for 30 consecutive days. You see, every single new thing you try creates one more path through the woods in your brain. And the more paths you create, the more flexible, agile, and creative you become. Flexibility gives you the confidence to try even more new things because you're able to see new and different solutions to challenges, which then increases your leadership abilities. Do you see where I'm going here? So it's conceivable to actually think that learning a new online platform could give you an entirely new sphere of influence and career. Hey, it could happen. Second, be willing to do a little intentional introspection. Y'all, this is coming up in so many of my conversations. You need to be willing to get clear with yourself what you want and where you want to go. Too many people really just don't know. And while that makes me more than a little sad, I remember a time when I couldn't tell you what I wanted. So give yourself the gift of taking the time to ask yourself what you really want and where you want to be. This isn't a selfish practice, it's a growth practice. Because only when you know those things can you plot out a direction. Okay, third, capture that want in your own unique way. What matters to you? What are you good at? What do you enjoy? Iggy discovered that she really liked to teach, lead, and be outside. So she found a way to combine all three. I love to encourage, laugh, teach, and talk. So here I am. But seriously, this doesn't need to be rocket surgery, as a friend of mine used to say. Be willing to look at what those things really are and see how you could combine them. Maybe you like and are good at creating systems and being on Instagram. So you could then work with Instagram influencers to build efficient systems to grow their businesses. Or maybe you love crunching numbers and staying home with your toddler. Do you know how many entrepreneurs need a bookkeeper or an accountant? All three of these takeaways fall under what we call a growth mindset. It's the idea that you always have something to learn, something new to experience, and that practice is more important than perfection. You see, you are your own best friend, your own best leader, and you are capable of so much more than you can ever imagine. So open your heart and your mind, put on your imagination hat, and try some new things. These could end up showing you exactly where you want to go. Now you can follow Aggie on Instagram, LinkedIn, or her website, and we've included those links in the show notes. But if you're thinking, Andrea, I don't think I have a growth mindset, well, now is the best time to figure that out. A growth mindset could mean the difference between knowing what you want and not, or the difference maker and stepping into a new role. So take a small leap of courage and just try something new. You can download my one-page tracker if you want, the link is in the show notes. But the more you develop and flex your agility and courage muscles, the more likely you are to be able to develop leaders around you and hop into lead whenever you are called upon. Now, if you want to grow but prefer to do it with other like-minded women, you should check out my Facebook group, Intentional Optimists. We're building a community with a culture that helps us all learn to think and live with intentional optimism. Intentional growth includes feeding your mind, so you definitely want to check out our book club. And Iggy will be joining me later this week to talk about some specific tactics for dealing with what she calls garbage behavior in a Facebook live teaching session. You don't want to miss this. But if you do, it will be recorded and available under the units tab. So join us. The link is in the show notes. If you want something more robust, I'm offering a new group coaching opportunity for high-performing, mission-minded women who want to learn and grow in a small group setting. I'll be sharing in my Facebook group as well as on my Facebook and Instagram pages, but they could fill up quickly, so if you're interested, email me at Andrea at the intentionaloptimist.com and let me know. I've included my contact information in the show notes as well. Thank you so much for spending some of your extremely valuable time with us today. Is there someone who came to mind while you were listening and you thought, oh, she needs to hear Iggy's story? Well, share it. And don't forget to subscribe on your favorite platform so that you never miss an episode. And would you do me one last favor? As soon as we're done here, go leave a review and a rating right where you listen. It will help other women who need to hear this message find us much more easily. Until next time. Hey, thanks for listening today. If you're an intentional optimist and you love this podcast, please subscribe and leave a review with a five-star rating. You can also snap a screenshot right where you're listening, share it to social media, and tag me. This helps others find us and will have an even bigger impact. If you're curious what it would be like to work more closely with me, or just step up as an unconventional leader yourself, we can invite you to schedule a free discovery session to uplift me. Just email me at Android at schooloptimist.com. If you're looking for an encouraging and uplifting community on Facebook, run over and join the Touchcaloptimist group. Community and email links are right here in the show description wherever you listen to the podcast. Until next time, email community and service. You are the future of leadership and the role model for future generations.
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