Arts Entrepreneurship Podcast: Making Art Work
Arts Entrepreneurship Podcast: Making Art Work
#276: Wayne Messmer (singer, speaker, broadcaster, author, & actor) (pt. 1 of 2)
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Today we released part one of our interview with serial arts entrepreneur Wayne Messmer. He’s a singer, speaker, broadcaster, author, and actor. Wayne is also a member of SAG/AFTRA and the National Speakers Association, and has held a professional association with the Chicago Cubs since 1985.
Outside of the arts, Wayne is part owner of the Chicago Wolves hockey team and co-owner of the financial services firm, Wayne Messer and Associates.
Regardless of your career goals, you'll benefit from hearing the wisdom Wayne has learned from his many decades as an arts entrepreneur! https://waynemessmer.com/
Interview With Wayne Messmer
AnnouncerWelcome to the Arts Entrepreneurship Podcast . Making art work . We highlight how entrepreneurs align their artistry , passion and vision to create and pursue opportunities to capture value in the arts . The views expressed by guests on the Arts Entrepreneurship Podcast are solely their own and do not necessarily represent the views of the podcast or its hosts . The appearance of a guest on the podcast , the venture they represent or reference to any product or service does not imply an endorsement or recommendation by the podcast or its hosts . The content provided is for entertainment and informational purposes only and does not constitute business advice . Here are your hosts Andy Heise and Nick Petrella .
Andy HeiseHi Arts Entrepreneurship Podcast listeners . My name is Andy Heise and I'm Nick Petrella .
Nick PetrellaJoining us today is serial entrepreneur Wayne Messmer . He's a professional singer , speaker , broadcaster , author and actor . He's a professional member of SAG-AFTRA and the National Speakers Association and has held a professional association with the Chicago Cubs since 1985 . With the Chicago Cubs since 1985 . Wayne is also part owner of the Chicago Wolves hockey team and co-owner of the financial services firm Wayne Mesmer Associates . We'll link to Wayne's website in the show notes so you can read more about his fascinating career . Wayne , thanks for being on the podcast .
Wayne MessmerIt is my delight to be with you guys . I know people of similar ilk . We always try to flock together and come up with a conversation that has some meaning , Hopefully we can fly with you .
Nick PetrellaYou see what I did there . So how does someone with a music education background get to do all the things you've done ?
Wayne MessmerI have always believed that you know , when you stop your quest for learning , you stop living . And you know I've raised my hand for things that next best thing about the next best thing to being clever is to be able to quote someone who is , you know and talking to , actually talking to Mark Cuban one time , you know guys would come out to Wrigley Field and leave the crowd in the seventh inning stretch , take me out to the ball game some much more disastrous than others . But he was in the green room and I popped in and it was just like wait a minute , when am I going to get a one-on-one with Mark Cuban ? So you know , it was well before the game and I asked him just one question , because I think you should always have one question prepared for anybody . And I said to him what was the moment that you decided to go for it , and he was . Well , he was pretty graphic . He said when you place your , shall we say , manhood on the table and you know are willing to risk it , raise your hand if you think you can do it or if you think you know , or if you think you know people who can help you achieve something . You know that you don't always have to be doing the heavy lifting .
Wayne MessmerAnd his he equated uh a marathon and he said , okay , you help train somebody for the marathon . The person they want to see is you . At the finish line . You know you can help other people , you can hire other people , you can instruct other people , you know to help someone get there , but to finish the accomplishment and there's a number of things that I've done in my life that have led to that Raising my hand , saying , yeah , I can do a feasibility study for a professional hockey team . I didn't know what that was , you know . I came home and told my wife , kathleen . I said I think I just , you know , got myself into something here . Well , you know , 30 years later , five championships later , these little guys , the Chicago Wolves , have done okay , yeah , that's great . And you know , that was one of those things where , if you're as smart as you think you are , and not from an ego standpoint , but put it on the line , you know , and find out , yeah . So I think that's what has driven me .
Nick PetrellaSo just the passion to continue to learn and just yeah , I can do this .
Wayne MessmerYeah , my resume looks like a guy who can't keep a job , but instead it's someone who never gets rid of a job . You know , I mean the things that I've done 30 years and even more ago .
Nick PetrellaI'm still doing so , you're collecting jobs . You're not hopping from one to another , you're just collecting jobs . That's what I'm doing yeah , yeah .
Wayne MessmerAnd the other thing is that people ask how in the heck do you keep the schedule that you do yeah ? And then why do you do it ? And the answer is very simple it's because I can . It's because I can , it's because I can , you know .
Andy HeiseYeah Well , I have to ask was getting a World Series ring with your name on it something that you had always dreamed of having ?
Wayne MessmerWell , it would have been a fantasy dream , you know . I mean , we're talking about working with the Chicago Cubs for all of these years . Now in my 40th season with the Cubs uh , three years with the White Sox before that but , uh , you know it , uh it , it was an amazing thing . I mean it's , it's a tremendous piece of jewelry , that's for sure . And , uh , when I do corporate speaking or singing I had a couple concerts this past week and a half I'll always wear it , you know .
Wayne MessmerAnd uh , the , the sound tech will say , well , do you want a lavalier mic or do you want a handheld or a stand ? No , no , I want a handheld . You know , and it's funny because you watch the audience , you know you're move in and they will literally , you know , have their eye on the thing . It's a great . It's a great thing , it's a tremendous honor . They're pretty big and it's a monster . Yeah , yeah , I'm wondering how it . I have five from the Wolves hockey team . I've got a couple from the Chicago Sting soccer too , so I could really lay it out , you know .
Andy HeiseYeah , that's cool . I'm wondering how many performers have World Series rings ? Probably not very many . Yeah , I can't think of any .
Wayne MessmerI don't know . I'm only concerned about one . That's right . Yeah , that's right .
Nick PetrellaSo you've hosted the Wayne Messmer radio show since 2011 . What made you decide to host a jazz radio program and why has it lasted as long as it has ?
Wayne MessmerWell , the , I guess the . The reason is that why ? Well , I think because I'm honest enough to share a criteria that's pretty obvious when you listen to the show over and over is of what it is that makes the music that I play fit for what I do . You know , it's standards or jazz , played properly and
Entrepreneurial Journey and Music Performances
Wayne Messmerproperly . Again , it's a very subjective term , but I'm a big fan of lyrics .
Wayne MessmerI've always been a lyric guy first . I've always believed that poetry is , uh , what turns into lyrics . Um , I like artists , I'm a big fan of female or , as we call them , chick singers , and I think the other thing is that I provide what I refer to as great tunes , positive vibes and good company . So it's kind of an unplug from the grid and just simmer down , grab a glass of wine because we're going to just have , you know , have some fun for an hour and uh , and it's , it's been good . I have loyal , loyal , loyal listeners . I mean people from all over the country , because it streams online , you know , and uh , so it's kind of cool , it's cool . So I think you know I mean the , without being gross . I mean , if you show up to do anything , if you don't suck , you're generally invited back .
Nick PetrellaSet the bar low to always be happy .
Wayne MessmerYeah , it's the old saying Always lower your level of expectations and then you will decrease your level of disappointment .
Nick PetrellaThat's right . We should say that in the podcast . Yeah , we should just start with that . Yeah , don't expect much . That's right we should . We should say that in the podcast , yeah , we should just start with that yeah , don't expect much .
Andy HeiseYeah , that's right , and if you , if you like it , great it's the first time we've ever done this , so we'll see what happens . Yeah , so , as we've been talking about , you've got , you've got a lot going on and as you've been building um pieces of your , your career , for 40 plus years now , at this point , and you alluded to , why do you keep the schedule that you do ? Can you give us a day in the life or a week in the life of Wayne Mesmer ?
Wayne MessmerWell , I can , and sometimes it will make you stagger a little bit . Here's a recent week when I thought about this . I had two Wolves hockey games . I had a Cubs ball game at night , I had two concerts , full-blown concerts . It was all the same week with a quartet . What else did I have ? Oh , I had three performances in the afternoon of what I refer to as Wayne Messmer's traveling piano bar at senior communities , which has become the delight of my life . That's great . This is all still the same week . And then I had the radio show too . Yeah , so other than that , it was pretty easy . That's amazing . Go ahead , you know , but you don't look at that . The worst thing I could do is look at a monthly calendar , you know , you look at it , even weekly , sometimes will make you nuts , but it's one day , one moment at the time , and realizing I can only be in one place at a time . So give your 100% attention to to where you are and what you're doing . Yeah .
Andy HeiseYou know the , the traveling piano , the traveling piano show , the traveling piano bar , bar and uh , you know I did a , they call it the traveling piano bar Bar .
Wayne MessmerAnd you know I did over 100 performances at senior communities last year , wow , and I've got like 122 booked for this year . Wow , it's truly amazing . And as a musician , you know you guys will understand that when you find the perfect audience , oh , it fits like a slipper . You know , yeah , I mean , these are people who are , who love the tunes they like . Well , they kind of love the wayne guy , the character , you know . Oh , I've listened to you on the radio , I've seen you .
Wayne MessmerI'm a big cubs fan , you know , whatever it might be and being around as long as I have , you know we've crossed a couple generations here already , and so , you know , in some ways they're kind of , you know , starstruck because they've seen me on TV or live or whatever it is . And man , I do not at all just take that lightly . You know , the shtick begins as I'm walking in with my equipment . You know , and all right , ladies , hide your wallets . The musicians here , you know that kind of silly stuff . Or you know a group of 80 year old beautiful little ladies who you know were captains of the cheerleading team or were homecoming , you know , and , and and I'll look at them I say , ah , this must be the waiting room for the auditions for the Rockettes or something like that . You know , and I don't know .
Nick PetrellaYeah , yeah , it's connecting with people and it's a it doesn't hurt to be nice .
Wayne MessmerYeah , it's different customer segment .
Nick PetrellaBe nice , yeah , it's a different customer segment , right , yeah , yeah .
Andy HeiseAnd I'm sure it's a bright spot in their week or month or whatever .
Wayne MessmerYeah , it's a wall , and then selecting the music was a bit of a challenge . Sure , and I think you guys will appreciate this , I'm thinking I don't want to do the old 1930s stuff . I mean these people , you know , as you continue to mature , I will use that word . My darling wife , kathleen , points out the gap between me and the audience that I'm entertaining is getting ever closer . So I said I'd like to do some Beatles tunes . All right , well , think about it .
Wayne MessmerSo I started and I did a really nice arrangement of and I Love Her , which I really enjoy , with kind of a Latin feel , and I thought well , will they know this song If they're 80 years old ? That song was from 1964 . Yeah , 60 years ago . So they were 20 years old . Yeah , they'll know the song , you know . So it changed a lot because I started to change the playlist a little bit and , you know , got a bit more contemporary Instead of 80-year-old songs . Right , you know 50-year-old songs and I've been leading off with it . Had to Be you , because that's 100 years old , that's a 1924 song . You know how many times have you played this at weddings ? Million times .
Nick PetrellaSo , wayne , we've known each other for a few years and it seems you have the innate ability to create opportunities for yourself , whether it's in the arts , sports or the financial sector . As we discussed in your bio , how are you able to recognize which paths to take in your entrepreneurial journeys ?
Wayne MessmerWell , you say yes , I'll look at something , at most any opportunity . I think the uh , the bigger question is know when to say no . You know , I have a , I have a file cabinet . It drives my wife nuts because there's probably a dozen tremendously well-crafted business plans for individual things that I thought I wanted to do until I got to the point of saying no , no one to say when , and I may give those away sometime . You know , I mean different things outside of music , whatever , but I think that's really really the point . I mean , you don't know it was another great phrase Sometimes we don't know what it is that we don't know Right , and and I think the curiosity is , what's what's so good ? You know , be open to new thought , new idea . I mean , I never suspected I'd be singing in a World Series , singing at the Ravinia , the outdoor music concert hall , with the symphony Come on Doing a radio . Being 40-some years of doing radio , yeah , how does that happen ?
Nick PetrellaYeah , so you are selective . You're just not a big funnel saying yes to everything , right ? No , you do want to look at it , right ?
Wayne MessmerYeah , I'll look at everything Right , but I think my filter has certainly developed over the years .
Andy HeiseHave you consciously thought about what are those filters , what are the items in that filter ?
Wayne MessmerYeah , what is your time worth ? And not necessarily in terms of dollars , but you know there's fourteen hundred and forty minutes a day , and how many of those are you willing to spend on something ? You know ? Too much travel time ? Who would you have to work with ? What is the expense of putting it together ? You know , and you know there's always the argument of how much do you have to spend in order to make how much ? You know . All of those things come into consideration . Yeah .
Andy HeiseThat's something I talk with my students about a lot is this approach to entrepreneurship or starting something is ? There's kind of two different ways of looking at it . One is who am I , what do I know how to do , what do I want to do and how do I go find an audience for that ? Or there's the other side of saying , well , what does the market need or want , and I'll just do that . Or there's the other side of saying , well , what does the market need or want , and I'll just do that . And it sounds like maybe you've kind of balanced that , you've kind of taken both approaches , although the business plan sitting in the file cabinet I think is interesting because you've had an idea , you've done some due diligence to kind of explore that idea and then decide it . Then you make a decision . So sounds like maybe you're doing a little bit of both .
Wayne MessmerYeah , I think so . You know , and I get an opportunity to speak often , which I really love , and when it's a younger group , students , I've done some master classes on the business of music and entertainment , general and career planning and all that happy stuff . You know it's which , as you know , it's generally the same soup , different label . You know just the message of paying attention to what you're doing . But I , uh , I don't know . I think the the important thing is , uh , trying to focus and understand what it is that you do , because find your purpose by fueling your passion . This is the way I always look at it . If you're good at it , someone undoubtedly is going to say , hey , man , you know you're pretty good . Have you ever thought of such and such ? Oh , yeah , and they may open a door for you . If you're lousy at it , somebody will tell you to , but you need to put it out there .
Wayne MessmerYou know , gee , the worst thing that I hear somebody say , and that that is on me , if they say , gee , I didn't know you did that . Well , yeah , I do . You know , I thought only I , only I mean I , I love concerts and I'll always say , in the middle of a concert , I hear more than anything else to prove that I know more than one song . You know just the national anthem , you know Right , so , but you know speaking , it's like geez . You know just the national anthem , you know Right , so , but you know speaking , it's like geez . You know , wow , you speak to companies . Yeah , for the past 40 years , yeah .
Nick PetrellaYeah Well , that's a good segue into this next question , because I'd like to switch gears and talk about motivational speaking
Becoming a Motivational Speaker and Performer
Nick Petrella. What's the process to become a motivational speaker and where are most of those engagements ?
Wayne MessmerWell , I , uh , I like to sleep in my own bed , but I will , uh , you know , I'll entertain opportunities out of town and certainly have done a number of them . Uh , national things , um , so the biggest thing I think is as a motivational person , and you know that term has kind of come and gone in some circles . You know I'm a motivational speaker . I'll never forget one time , kathleen and I were driving up in rural Wisconsin going to visit some friends and we're listening to some local radio , which I always love . You know , how are you doing ? Okay , let's call it you radio , which I always love . How you doing ? Okay , let's call it . You know that kind of stuff . This woman calls in and she is like , well , you know . The guy says well , you know , dear , what do you do ? I'm a motivational speaker , are you ?
Nick Petrellaserious yeah , and I thought wow , she was really motivated .
Wayne MessmerDoes she motivate the dead ? You don't know the audience . Are you serious ? And to be able to do it ? And you know the platform skills or the presentation skills . That's a craft that you can certainly develop like any other performing , but I think knowing how to tell a story being captivating and number one , of course , is know your audience One thing that I've had to do over the years is to make sure that my references are up to date .
Wayne MessmerYou know , because you know you talk about , well , this guy , you know he , he was good enough to appear on the Ed Sullivan show . You'll get a blank stare . You know what I mean . So it's like American Idol , you know . Whatever it is , yeah , because my wife , she's a riot . She says , you know , you want to be sure that the audience knows what you're referring to . And if it's a younger group , yeah , okay . And she says sometimes you might get the feeling that all of your references have gotten together . Okay , they have purchased a group rate and they got on a beautiful , beautiful cruise vessel and that ship has sailed . You know , so pay attention .
Andy HeiseWell , and , and along those lines , you talked about honing the craft of giving speeches and that sort of thing . I read in a blog post that you have on your website that at one point in time you had a fear of performing in public . How did you overcome that ? Or is that something you still contend with ?
Wayne MessmerI do to a certain extent . It's not so much a fear , it's a constant reminder that you're only as good as your last performance and take a live theater approach when they pull that curtain it's a good idea to have your pants on , you know , to have the confidence that you know what you're doing and to be able to to show it and not necessarily show off Although if you're good , you're kind of right at the edge there but uh , you know somebody's going to say like , for example , oh good , wayne is going to sing or speak I've heard this guy before and they create some anticipation for the person next to them and uh , you know , if you go out there and you kind of just waltz through it , you're a schmuck . You want that guy who's seeing you for the first time to tell his friend , you know , because the you know as good as your last performance is , so , so true , you know , man , this guy used to be so much better . Yeah , so how did ? How did you ? You still got it . You know that . So how did I get past that ? A lot of practice , I think , leads to confidence , for sure . And listen to people whom you trust in terms of your performance and critique and pretty soon you feel , yeah , you know , I've got this , I've got this , you know where .
Wayne MessmerNow it's the anxiousness and anticipation to be able to go out and do something , as opposed to being afraid . And I think that really , my fear of speaking and all that was back when I was a kid , but everyone has my fear of speaking , and all that was back when I was a kid , but everyone has a fear of speaking . They say that it's the number one fear of Americans . And second is death . You know , which means you'd rather be I think it was the Jerry Seinfeld line is you'd rather be giving the eulogy . I mean , you'd rather be in the box rather than giving the eulogy at a funeral .
Nick PetrellaYeah , who was it ? We just had someone on that said that what 75% of people are afraid of public speaking ? Oh , no doubt the other 25% are lying . Yeah , and everybody was horrible at it at first . Yes , yeah , eduardo .
Wayne MessmerEduardo .
Nick PetrellaPlacer yeah , yeah , that's right .
Wayne MessmerI mean , there are a few dates where early on , I'm thinking oh man , I'd love to erase that from my memory .
Nick PetrellaYeah , yeah , it happens , yeah , and it's funny . And the audience's perception . I was talking with an artist a number of years ago and he said you know , it's really funny . He said we'll go out on stage and it'll just be bad . Nobody's going to be happy and people will come up to them and just rave about how wonderful it was , and then there'll be a concert where they'll go out and play and they can't even play a wrong note and people are just saying , yeah , it's just kind of flat , it's good . You know , right , it's that perception .
Wayne MessmerBut to your point . I think the big thing is to be open to . Compliments is another thing , because I mean , I've done this for a long while and if someone says , oh , that was fantastic and you're going a long while , and if someone says , oh , that was fantastic and you're going , eh , she slid into that , ain't natural , it just wasn't . Just wasn't what I wanted . You don't tell them no , thank you . You know I'm glad you liked it . You know I have my own standard , but uh , yeah , that's your boss .
Wayne MessmerAnother great phrase that says you know an , amateur practices until they get it right , A professional practices until they can't get it wrong . That's right and I firmly believe that .
Nick PetrellaSo you've sung the national anthem over 5,000 times and I'd imagine with every sports team in Chicago , right ? What advice would you give young singers or even professional opera singers who want to sing the national anthem for a pro sports team ? How does that happen ?
Wayne MessmerWell , you try first of all to get an invitation to do it and be ready if and when someone says yes , I mean I'd talk my way and do an invitation for a Chicago Sting soccer game . I was doing the radio and I was doing a weekly Chicago Sting weekly report or some crazy thing that I had made up , and it was the same station that was carrying the games , and so we were in the same building too , by coincidence , and I waited until they were having a holiday party Christmas party on the 15th floor , and I was up on the 34th when I was done with the shift , I went down and I figured the punch bowl was pretty well depleted by that point . So I just said , hey , who sings at your games ? Oh well , we get whatever or whomever I'd like to . Really , yeah , and I didn't show all my cards and uh , you know , I showed up and it was god bless america .
Wayne MessmerAnd you know I mean for me this was this , was it ? This was the audition for the ed sullivan show , you know . So , uh , and I sang it . They go wow , wow , that was great . That was great , because I think their expectations were low . You know , they thought maybe I'd give it , one of those classic DJ comes out to sing . You know , you know that kind of crap which I just love so much .
Nick PetrellaYou've heard Andy say that before .
Wayne MessmerBut you know , they said , come back , do it again . Great , so I did . And that second game . They said , come back , do it again . And I said , well , pay me and I will . You know , and so that turned into a . That was the introduction to that .
Wayne MessmerThat exposure led to a call from the Blackhawks , which I then did every game for 13 seasons . Uh , that exposure led to uh , a call from the White Sox , which I did for three seasons , including the 1983 all-star game . Uh and uh that . And then , after the , after three years , going at 85 , I had an option to to do free agency and went to the Cubs instead and the exposure was way different , way different , yeah , yeah , you know .
Long Career in Chicago Sports
Wayne MessmerAnd then , after the 13 years with the Blackhawks , again the Chicago Wolves opportunity came up as a , as a consultant , and that's been 30 years deep and five rings and a lot of just magnificent memories . I mean , I walk into a game now and my fingerprints are on everything that I see . So it's , it's great , it's a , it's a labor of love . And all of that came about because I kind of volunteered or asked about . You know , can I come out and sing ? And ? But again , I was ready . If so , if they said yes , which they did , that's great .
AnnouncerThanks for listening . If you like this podcast , please subscribe . Visit artsentrepreneurshippodcastcom to learn more about our guest and how you can help support artists , the arts and this podcast . © transcript Emily Beynon .
