Arts Entrepreneurship Podcast: Making Art Work
Arts Entrepreneurship Podcast: Making Art Work
#279: Mike Packer (Inspire EDU Founder) (pt. 2 of 2)
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Today we released part two of our interview with entrepreneur Mike Packer. He’s the President and Founder of Inspire EDU—a company founded on transforming lives through arts, media and entertainment education. Mike is also an accomplished drummer and author, and has been teaching for over 30 years. You'll enjoy hearing how Mike created a portfolio career as a working drummer, educator, administrator, author and company founder.
https://www.inspireedu.us
https://www.mikepackerdrums.com
Arts Entrepreneurship Podcast and Curriculum Development
AnnouncerWelcome to the Arts Entrepreneurship Podcast . Making art work . We highlight how entrepreneurs align their artistry , passion and vision to create and pursue opportunities to capture value in the arts . The views expressed by guests on the Arts Entrepreneurship Podcast are solely their own and do not necessarily represent the views of the podcast or its hosts . The appearance of a guest on the podcast , the venture they represent or reference to any product or service does not imply an endorsement or recommendation by the podcast or its hosts . The content provided is for entertainment and informational purposes only and does not constitute business advice . Here are your hosts Andy Heise and Nick Petrella .
Andy HeiseHi Arts Entrepreneurship Podcast listeners . My name is Andy Heise .
Nick PetrellaAnd I'm Nick Petrella . Mike Packer is joining us today . He's the president and founder of InspireEDU , a company founded on transforming lives through arts , media and entertainment education . Mike is also an accomplished drummer author and has been teaching for over 30 years . We're looking forward to hearing how Mike applied what he learned as a musician to his new venture . We'll link to his websites in the show notes so you can read more about Mike and inspire EDU . Mike , thanks for coming on the podcast .
Mike PackerThanks for having me . Really great to see you guys and be with you .
Nick PetrellaAre you working with any universities , colleges , to maybe partner with a certificate or a college credit , dual credit or something ?
Mike PackerYeah , great question . We're looking at some . I can't say exactly who the potential partners will be , but both in the vocational post-secondary space and then the traditional , more residential post-secondary space . Absolutely , we're looking at credentialing kind of in two different ways from higher ed , but also from industry . So , you know , having a networking provider or a software provider Well , I'll use Adobe as an example or Avid right . They have tremendous certificate programs for their products and the skills needed . So we're looking at a lot of that as well , have everything from full courses to small units , project-based , and will lead to industry-recognized certificates and credentialing . I would love to get to dual enrollment . Either dual enrollment and or specific articulations would be really helpful , I think , for people as well .
Nick PetrellaI would think the industry would be all over that , just because I mean , you know , we've been in various industries for a while and whenever you get your degree or when you just start , you think , oh , I know what I'm doing , and then you realize I don't know what I'm doing , and then you spend the next you know , four or five years getting comfortable and learning the specifics , Absolutely yeah . So I was noticing on your site that you have an eclectic team with a variety of experiences . What were you looking for when you started gathering the team and what's the hiring process like ?
Mike PackerRight . So I wanted a very diverse team . Everywhere I've been , I've tried to build diverse teams and diverse staffs because I want diverse perspectives in the room . I don't want to just focus on my perspective or a couple of people's perspectives . I want as much diversity in the room as possible so that you know the team that we assemble looks like and represents who our students are Right and who our customers are going to be . I just I think that's the right approach , and so I've always kind of been passionate about building that .
Nick PetrellaYeah , and it's kind of what we're doing with the podcast . Sure , yeah , it makes a big difference . Engagement , oh , absolutely .
Andy HeiseWhat was the uh ? What was the first position that you needed to hire for , that you needed to help with ?
Mike PackerWell , um , definitely , um , I would say program management and sales management . You know , I am definitely not a salesman , definitely not , although if you need a bass drum pedal , I know where you can go . Other than that , I'm definitely not . So I need people with those skills and that background . I need people with those skills and that background . Also , I will be hiring for this very soon Production , film production , audiovisual , because we're going to be developing a lot of curriculum and content .
Andy HeiseAnd so I'm not a great content guy either . Yeah , yeah , yeah , that makes it , makes perfect sense . And that kind of leads me to my next . My next question is like so , given your business model and the way that you work , where , where do you spend most of your time ? You know , making things go yeah , right now .
Mike PackerUm , it's more about kind of executing vision and strategy and engaging with partners , potential partners . We've just brought on a few partners that are terrific . One is Digital Media Academy . They are they have a bit of a presence in the United States , but they're primarily international and they have terrific curriculum that is in the arts and media space Actually , it's in the STEAM space , so they go far beyond just the arts , but they have really good arts content and they were very interested in breaking into the United States in K-12 . So what we're doing is we're taking their curriculum , adapting it to our K-12 structure , mapping it to standards in California and in other states and we'll be distributing it that way . So that's one terrific partner . And then another is called Whirly , which is an ed tech platform . It's basically an LMS that focuses primarily on music in the arts . So they're going to be our music partner . They've got really good music production content on there and they will be building out more . So they're a terrific partner , interesting .
Mike PackerLooking at other partnerships in the curriculum space , definitely in the work-based learning space , and I know at least for me , work-based learning was kind of like new . It's like what is that specifically ? But work-based learning is basically the connective tissue of industry and the classroom . So think about it from everywhere , from career exploration , career discovery , skill training and then either apprenticeship , earn and learn , or internship . So it could be anything from having a guest speaker come to class or taking a field trip to a work site . You know , in the arts , let's say , we take a cohort of 30 students to a recording studio and they audit a session .
Mike PackerUm , it's project-based work that is aligned to industry . Um , that is , that was the biggest pain point that I saw when I was on the higher ed side specifically , and going into K-12 , because you know teachers , a lot of them may not have been in the industry or don't have the time to create relationships within the industry . And so we're working right now on creating a hub that has all of that contained for all of the pathways that we're talking about . And actually it breaks out even farther because we're relating them to SOC codes . Because we're relating them to SOC codes , so basically , a job that has an SOC code with the government .
Mike PackerWe will have material that supports that . That's great , yeah , and we're looking at building kind of a large hub to house everything and it's really exciting , but that's going to be a pretty large undertaking . You had the question before about does one lead to another or does one have more need than the other , and I would say work-based learning is definitely the highest need . So we're looking at work-based learning kind of being the leader of the charge , and then we also have curriculum and teaching artists that can support it . But that's how we're approaching it .
Nick PetrellaYes , so who's writing all that content and curriculum ? Because it seems like a massive undertaking .
Mike PackerYeah , it is , we are doing a lot of it . We are also , you know , through partnerships , bringing in subject matter experts . So we will either use you know content through partners or we will create our own and engage subject matter experts where we need to . Fortunately , with my partner , we have a curriculum team so we're able to do some of that in-house . But , yeah , for every career that we're looking at and there's easily going to be at least 150 , if not more we need to build video content of a day in a life .
Mike PackerWhat do you need to do to get into the industry ? What is it like ? And two , I think also bringing home the idea that career paths are not linear , you know , I mean , they always take twists and turns . I would have never thought I'd be here , although it kind of makes sense for me to be here if you look at the trajectory Right . So , exactly , I think if I knew that and I was open to that , you know , during my developmental years , I think that would have been very helpful . So that's that's what we're trying to convey .
Andy HeiseYeah sure here is you're kind of the connect the dot , like there's . There's some of these curriculum , like you know , online platforms that exist but they don't have a direct connection to like educational institutions , like K-12 programs , but then there's also K-12 programs that come to you and say here's what we're looking for , here's what we want , and you go out and either find it or you create it yourself , is that I mean ? So you're kind of right there in the middle , given your experience and expertise in teaching , curriculum development , relationships , et cetera .
Mike PackerYep , yeah , that's , I'd say that's accurate . You know our goal and we're creating it now is to have a pretty robust catalog . So hopefully that catalog will , you know , suffice for people , for people . But you know they're like there's another nonprofit that I'm working with right now in the live event space that needs 10 courses done , and so you know we're going to be the curricular designer on it . We're going to work with the subject matter experts and the content team , create all that content for them . So it it kind of works a couple of different ways .
Andy HeiseYeah , and is the delivery of these courses exclusively online ? I mean the work-based ? The work , the work-based experiences are obviously have some in-person options , but yeah , yes , the curricular delivery is online .
Mike PackerWe have full lesson plans for teachers , so if you're a teacher A with experience in the discipline , or if you're a teacher who has no experience in the discipline , you should be able to follow these guides and deliver the content to your class . Some of the content is even appropriate asynchronously , so if you want your students to just go through it on their own , they could do that too .
Nick PetrellaYeah , You're talking , speaking about partners . What do you look for when identifying the partners ? Is it need-based or is it you're thinking ahead , like in the future ?
Mike PackerI think it's both . It's definitely need-based , it needs to kind of check a box , but ultimately in a partnership I'd like to build with them . So it's partnering with the right people , first and foremost , and making sure that there's really good synergy and alignment with both our strategy and their strategy and how they can work together and we can grow this together .
Nick PetrellaAnd just one quick follow-up question how many employees do you have at this time ?
Mike PackerMe personally , I think it's six , but with the resources that I have through my partner's company Study Smart Tutors , I believe he's at around 50 .
Nick PetrellaYeah , okay .
Andy HeiseYeah .
Mike PackerIt just seems like a huge yeah , I don't have to employ everybody under my company because I have access to those resources .
Nick PetrellaRight access to those resources . So right , I mean having written curriculum and content before , and I'm just as you're speaking , I'm thinking just with you look at audio or recording .
Mike PackerI mean you could have a session on a dozen different miking mics , miking style , I mean , just it's yeah , oh , yeah , yeah , it can get pretty deep .
Andy HeiseYeah , yeah , get pretty deep pretty fast , yeah , um , and I'm also thinking , you know , I in in , you know , the arts entrepreneurship
Navigating Arts Entrepreneurship & Educational Development
Andy Heiseeducation space . There's a lot of like professional development and even entrepreneurship programs that exist for practicing artists in the community , that sort of thing , you know , and a lot of times people are like , well , let's just take that and do that at the university level and that's , you know , in , conceptually that sounds like it should work . But , as you know , and I think what you've really sort of zeroed in on here , mike , is the tedium involved with mapping that and assessing that and making sure that it does all the things it needs to do and has the infrastructure to be sustained over time , like that's . Those are the hard parts that people don't ever see when they look at programs like the ones that you're talking about .
Mike PackerOh yeah , 100 percent it's . You know , the mapping and the assessment tools and the rubrics are so critical and crucial and that's , that's really the . If there's sizzle , and's that's really the .
Mike PackerIf there's sizzle and steak , that's really the steak , right , I mean , that's , that's the stuff that's the stuff that's going to make or break your program and make it truly relevant and useful or not , and that's . It's funny . I kind of geek out on that in in mapping and in assessment tools and things like that . Fortunately I don't know if it's from my drumming background or what it is , but it's something that's very interesting to me and one of my most favorite things I love to do is program development , for sure .
Nick PetrellaYeah .
Andy HeiseYeah , administratively . What have been some of the biggest challenges um starting and growing , inspiring to you oh , that's a good question .
Mike PackerUm , I feel like we're still in startup mode , sure , um , probably will be for a while . Um , so I think it's just probably the biggest frustration I have , because we have partners is that things don't move as quickly as I want them to and as I'm ready to . And you know it's just the way it is and you know timelines don't always align perfectly . But I I'm a tad impatient and I , you know it's funny when I remember , when I was doing my undergraduate , I was I really beat myself up a lot because I wasn't enjoying the process , I wanted the outcomes . And you know , like one example , because my degree was in classical percussion .
Mike PackerSo you know , obviously I was practicing marimba and timpani and all that stuff for hours a day and with marimba I had a warmup routine where I would do all 12 scales , all 12 arpeggios , and if I missed one note I would make myself go back and start it again . And there were practice sessions where I never got past it and it was just so stupid and so detrimental . But I was like it has to be perfect , it has to be perfect . So I think , trying to be patient and not be so bummed out that things might take a little slower than I want them to . Um , I think is is probably my biggest frustration and something that I've been working on for a long time .
Andy HeiseSure , yeah Well , and with all those partners , to your point , you're , you're pushing , you're pulling , you're Trying to right .
Mike PackerYeah , it's hurting cats sometimes , Sure .
Nick PetrellaAnd do you manage those relationships ? I do yeah that's good . So , mike , where do you want InspireEDU to be in five years and what are you doing to get there ?
Mike PackerYeah , great question . I think in five years I just want us to be making a positive impact on students and administrators' lives in a broad sense , you know , providing access and awareness and opportunity to education in the arts , which typically is aligned with people's passion . Also , letting them know that the arts is a very broad career sector . Right In music you don't have to just be a player or an artist . There are so many supportive roles . A lot of people , I've found , don't really know how broad it is . So being able to get that word out too and , you know , have people choose careers that align with their passions and their skill sets , I think would be a really solid goal for us . So in five years I would like to be doing that , but doing it on a large scale , not only nationally but internationally as well , right ?
Nick PetrellaGreat .
Andy HeiseWell , Mike , we've reached the point of the interview where we ask all of our interviewees the same three questions , and the first question is what advice would you give to others wanting to become an arts entrepreneur ?
Mike PackerGood question . I would say have an open mind . Question . I would say have an open mind , have a very creative and think outside the box mind . Look at what's out there and find a niche where you can really make a difference .
Nick PetrellaRight , it's like what's the saying Necessity , what is it ? Necessity is the mother of all invention . So look for that spot and then really commit to that . But you have to think outside the box to get there . You're a jazz drummer right as well , I am . Necessity is the mother of improvisation . When in doubt , roll Accessibility is the mother of improvisation .
Mike PackerThat's it . When in doubt roll . When in doubt roll .
Mike PackerImprovise what can we do to ensure the arts are more accessible and reaching the widest possible audience ? Well , I think it obviously starts at the top of funding . So , you know , I think there needs to be robust funding systems throughout the country and sustainable . You know , we're kind of we're spoiled here in California now because we passed in 22 something called Prop 28 , which is actual funding for the arts in schools . So we have almost a billion dollars a year coming in for the arts in schools . So every student has between 110 and $200 of arts funding that they get . So you know , that's just one example , but I would say funding . I would also say you know , in the technological space there are so many advancements that are coming so quickly . Um , you know , more , more in that space to provide access to people .
Andy Heiseyou know space to provide access to people you know ? Yeah , Great . Lastly , what's the best artistic or entrepreneurial advice ?
Mike Packeranyone's ever given you . Yeah , great question . Um , I would say there's two if I could , if I could say both of them . Um , first , my mentor , ralph Humphrey . When I was studying with him was the mid-90s and you know he was very prominent in not only education but in the studio scene in LA and he told me in one of our lessons he said you know , you play great , you read great .
Mike PackerIf you were here 10 years ago you'd be working all the time , but the industry's changed and there's not the amount of work , so you need to start figuring out some other things . And you know I always impart to my students that if you want a career in the industry , you need to have at least three things in your tool belt that you can do . Maybe it's playing and teaching and producing or engineering or whatever . It is your three things that they are . You need to . You need to have at least three , because if you just focus on on playing , there's going to be ups and downs . No matter who you are , there's going to be busy times , slow times , so you have to have things that can can handle that .
Mike PackerThat's one . The other is um , I was playing with this jazz quartet actually jazz classical quartet called free flight Um and the . The leader of that group is a guy named Jim Walker who's a tremendous um flute player and educator . And uh , we were driving one night on the road and I was just writing my first book . At the time I was talking about it , I probably had delusions of grandeur . He's like you know , what you really need to think about is creating a catalog . He said . You're never going to get rich or make it on one title , so be thinking about the breadth and the substance of all the work , not just one thing . Yeah , that's right . And boy , that stuck with me today . That was such great advice .
Nick PetrellaAnd that's what you're doing .
Mike PackerAnd it's what I'm doing . Yeah , yeah , so I have Jim to thank for all of that .
Supporting Arts Education and Growth
Nick PetrellaWell , mike , it's great hearing your approach to helping students and teachers just grow in a variety of arts fields . That's really impressive and thanks for coming on the podcast . Thanks .
Mike PackerNick . Thanks , andy , great talking to you guys , it's a real pleasure . Thanks , Mike .
AnnouncerThanks for listening . If you like this podcast , please subscribe . Visit artsentrepreneurshippodcastcom to learn more about our guest and how you can help support artists , the arts and this podcast .
