#362: Dan Gorman (Illustrator and Comic Artist) (pt. 2 of 2)

This week on the podcast is part two of our interview with Dan Gorman. He’s a Co-Founder of Route 8 Studios, a collaborative graphic design and illustration studio featuring comic book artists and designers. He’s worked on over 150 Licensed Trading Card sets with dozens of well-known brands such as Marvel, Star Wars, the Game of Thrones, AMC's The Walking Dead and more. As a comic book penciler, his works have been published in numerous publications. 

Dan is a member in good standing of the National Cartoonists Society and runs and promotes several local comicons and Pop Culture Cons. Make sure to visit his website to see samples of his illustrations! www.dangormanart.com and https://www.route8studios.org/

Chapters

• 0:00 Meet Dan Gorman And Roots
• 2:08 LLCs, Taxes, And Saying No To Equity
• 6:20 Avoiding Accidental Partnerships
• 8:18 Balancing Franchises And Personal Work
• 10:49 Why A Collaborative Studio
• 13:05 Delegation, Interns, And Pipeline
• 15:18 Rates, Budgets, And Kickstarter Models
• 17:05 National Cartoonists Society Value
• 18:18 The Ghost Hunting Venture
• 19:52 What It Takes To Run A Comic-Con
• 23:30 Using Cons For Networking Over Sales
• 26:20 Biggest Cons And Why They Matter
• 27:42 The Final Three: Do The Work, Support Local, Trust Your Gut
• 33:41 Closing And Subscribe

Transcript

Announcer: 0:18

Welcome to the Arts Entrepreneurship Podcast, Making Art Work. We highlight how entrepreneurs align their artistry, passion, and vision to create and pursue opportunities to capture value in the arts. The views expressed by guests on the Arts Entrepreneurship Podcast are solely their own and do not necessarily represent the views of the podcast or its hosts. The appearance of a guest on the podcast, the venture they represent, or reference to any product or service does not imply an endorsement or recommendation by the podcast or its hosts. The content provided is for entertainment and informational purposes only and does not constitute business advice. Here are your hosts, Andy Heise and Nick Petrella.

Andy Heise: 1:01

Hi Arts Entrepreneurship Podcast listeners. I'm Andy Heise.

Nick Petrella: 1:05

And I'm Nick Petrella. Dan Gorman is on the podcast today. He's a co-founder of Root 8 Studios, a collaborative graphic design and illustration studio featuring comic book artists and designers. Dan has a BFA in medical illustration from the Cleveland Institute of Art and has been a sketch artist for over 15 years. He's worked on over 150 licensed trading card sets with dozens of well-known brands such as Marvel, Star Wars, The Game of Thrones, AMC's The Walking Dead, and more. As a comic book penciler, his works have been published in numerous publications. Dan is a member in good standing of the National Cartoonist Society and runs and promotes several local Comic Cons and pop culture cons. Make sure to visit his website links in the show notes to read more about Dan's extensive experience and see samples of his illustrations. Thanks for coming on the podcast, Dan.

Dan Gorman: 1:57

Oh hey, I'm Dan Gorman.

Nick Petrella: 2:01

I love the excited excitement in your voice. So got a this question isn't isn't one that uh that we sent you, but you have an LLC, Route 8, so you're a W-2 employee, you have an LLC. Do you take any solo gigs and route it through there, or do you have a separate LLC for only yourself?

Dan Gorman: 2:26

Well, I have I have a couple LLC. So I'm that's that's the third LLC that I'm a part of. Um my freelance work, I I, you know, it hasn't gotten to the point where I've had to where I've had to form an LLC for my freelance work. Um, but it may be getting there, you know, that 2026 or 2027 maybe where I have to form my own, you know, personal LLC. But um, you know, because I have you know, I run Comic Cons, so we have an LLC for that. Um I I I I own a ghost hunt team in Canton, part owner of a ghost hunt team. So that's an LLC. And then um and then there's there's Route 8 Studios. So um I I everything kind of gets you know handled by the accountant.

Nick Petrella: 3:12

So oh yeah, for sure. For sure.

Dan Gorman: 3:15

Just keep keep me out of jail. That's all I care about.

Nick Petrella: 3:18

Exactly. Well, what I'm wondering is, did you whatever the first LLC you created, did you did you know anything about business before you did that?

Dan Gorman: 3:27

Um a little a little bit, because I have I have a friend, you know, uh Jason Miller, who is uh also my partner in the Comic Con business, who always owned businesses. Um he owned several comic book stores over the years. He owns a comic book store right now in Barbadon, Ohio. And um he I kind of learned a little bit about the business side, the tax side, and the LLC side uh from him when I was um you know I I we met because I worked at his store. I helped, I helped run his store. He had a store in green called Big Buddha's Comics and Collectibles, and um I helped run that when I was in college. And um over the years I just sort of accumulated information. Also working at a law firm for nine years, I learned some learned some things there. So I kind of knew, you know, what I was gonna get into before I I became part of the first LLC.

Nick Petrella: 4:22

Yeah. And so is there anything that you wish you knew then that you know now? When you were starting? Just for anybody listening who might be thinking of doing the same thing.

Dan Gorman: 4:31

Um how complicated it makes your taxes. So that's about the only thing uh that I wish I had I had known. And so now, you know, when people ask me, you know, to become part of businesses because I get asked every once in a while, I'm like, wait a minute. Wait a minute, my is my name going on LLC because I I don't I don't need the tax, you know. Another another tax situation. Yeah, another tax situation that I gotta deal with. Um that that's that's that's the thing I wish I wish I would have known.

Andy Heise: 5:00

So you bring up a really interesting point. It's like you you don't always need to be part of the business. Like, can you just pay me to do something instead of me being instead of me like going through this whole rigma role of starting another entity, right? Right. Just pay me to do the work and I'll do it as a as an independent contractor, whatever.

Dan Gorman: 5:18

Right. Well, the the thing about this field is that you know there's a lot of people who are like, you know, you get involved in projects because you believe in them, but but the payment for the project is hey, I'll make I'll give you part of the business. Part of the ownership. Yeah, part of the ownership. And so that has been if it makes money.

Andy Heise: 5:37

If it makes money, it's right at some point.

Dan Gorman: 5:39

If anything ever happens, you know, you might you might be okay. Um and I've I've done that a couple of times and I'm starting to learn, you know, my lessons there. Um But you know, also I I like to help people. I like to I like to help people make their you know make their dream come true. I like help help people get their product out there. You know, I want to be I want to be helpful in that way. And you know, if you can pay me, you know, X amount of dollars to do it, great. Um if you can't, and I believe in the project, and um I think it's something that has legs that over time could potentially, you know, become something, then I'll pitch in, I'll help. Um but I don't I don't need to be on the paperwork.

Andy Heise: 6:22

Yeah. Right. Yeah. I just had this conversation with a student. They're in the middle of making a film, and they this this one student in particular, they're they had the creative sort of like it's their characters and their storyline and that sort of thing, but they have a couple of friends who are helping with the actual, you know, creating all of the frames and everything for the for the film. And we were talking about how how how they should approach uh having that conversation around like, well, what if this goes somewhere? Because it's all fun and games, right? When it's a creative project and everything. And actually Danielle Merrick, uh uh uh uh volunteer lawyers and accounts for the arts we've had on here before, that's one of the biggest issues she sees is is accidental partnerships. Right. So you it starts out as a fun creative endeavor and then all of a sudden there's money involved. And you didn't have those conversations about, well, who owns what and how much and what if we do make money, those sorts of things.

Dan Gorman: 7:17

Right. Right. Yeah, yeah, that tends to happen. Um and you know, uh I mean, ultimately it ends up getting resolved. You know, I'm not I'm not one to take anybody to court, you know. Right, right, right. Um but you know, it it it it works itself out, and um, you know, I I don't get involved with with projects that I don't like the person that I'm getting involved with. Well that yeah, exactly. Yeah, and so you know, I if if you I expect to be treated fairly, I'm gonna treat you fairly. Um, you know, let's let's see, let's see what happens, let's see what we can do.

Andy Heise: 7:53

Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. That makes sense. Yeah. Um, and sort of along those same lines, uh you've you know, as we've talked about, you've done a lot of work with franchises, but also you publish smaller works through smaller presses and publications like the one you won the award for. And um, so I'm just wondering about balancing those two things. Do you do you consciously try to balance like your creative outlet work, the smaller stuff versus the franchise type of work?

Dan Gorman: 8:20

Um well I said a conscious thing. I don't get to do much of my own smaller stuff. Um because I'm always working for for someone. There's always someone else, yeah. Yeah, and most of my time is is taken up by you know some bigger, bigger things, you know, at this point. And the stuff that I do I mean Route 8 Studios was intended to be, you know, an outlet for you know our our collective um independent personal projects. Um and we had, you know, every you know, like last year we put out a schedule, okay, we're gonna do this project, this project, this project. And the first year that Route 8 Studios was in existence, that worked because you know nobody knew who we were. So we were able to kind of you know work in the shadows, you know. But now it's starting to become more difficult because people are coming to us and saying, hey, you know, we want we want to be part of this, we we want your help. And that was the intent, you know, that's what we intended Route 8 Studios to be. Um, but it's also making us shelve, you know, our own personal things and pay attention more to what you know other people are asking us to do.

Andy Heise: 9:29

Yeah, I that and while we're on the topic of you uh you mentioned Route 8, uh, I have a question later about that, but it also makes me start thinking about um, you know, you started Route 8 for to sort of as a as a as an avenue to get your own creative work out, and then you find yourself doing work that's maybe not from the original intent. I think I think a lot of artists start businesses to do the thing that they wanted to do. They create the whatever, the entity or the the business because that's what they do, and then that what they do is they find themselves, well, now I'm actually running a business versus doing the thing that that I initially set out to do. So I'm and and I and so with the collaborative, I'm wondering is are there advantages to doing it together versus sort of trying to do it on your own? Because that's usually the default, right? Is is the sort of uh sole proprietor out there trying to do it alone.

Dan Gorman: 10:17

Yeah. So, you know, the the way Route Studio works is that we have, you know, we have two onboard um illustrators, myself and Damian Kendrick, who are sort of the managing um, you know, creative uh people at the at the studio, and then and then we have um affiliated artists who we can farm stuff out to, we can hand things off to uh you know, if we think it's a good fit, hey, you know, um can you do this? You know, do you want to do this? And and most of them um d like to participate in those projects and they do they do come through when it's time to come through. Um but yeah, it it becomes but then it becomes, you know, there are there are certain people who come to you and say, Well, I want I'm here to come, I want you, you know, I want you to do it, you know. And there are people who say, I want Damien to do it, you know, and I want, you know, there are you get into those situations now where you know you it it there's only so much of me, you know.

Andy Heise: 11:16

Right.

Dan Gorman: 11:16

So um, you know, I I I don't want to, again, I don't want to disappoint anyone and I want to give everyone you know what they what they need. I mean I feel like I was I was put here to enrich the world, you know, and and and create things that you know are are uh inspirational to other people and other artists, and so I never want to turn those down and I don't want to, you know, uh disappoint anyone. Um it's just over the years, you know, it's just getting it's getting more difficult to to satisfy every situation um because there's just a lot of it coming coming in right now.

Andy Heise: 11:50

Well that's that's an interesting thing too, that to to think about like so you and Damien you know are the whatever heading up the studio and people come to the studio because of your work. Yes, yes. And so they want you to do the work, which sort of defeats the purpose of the the the sort of studio approach to it, right?

Dan Gorman: 12:07

Right, right, right, right. Yeah. So when we can, you know, we we try to, you know, we have a whole uh bullpen, you know, of artists, which includes sure, which includes interns and stud and students from, you know, um the Kent State uh from Kent State University and and and they all are very excited and eager to get projects and and it helps them build portfolio pieces and they get real world um you know experience and opportunities, um, meeting real world deadlines, doing real world work, getting real world feedback. Um and and I try to give as many of the opportunities as I can, you know, to them because you know it can really benefit them long term. Um and so that's how I approach everything. Um unless I'm asked sp specifically, hey, I need you to do this, um, I try to involve, you know, as many other artists and people as as I possibly can.

Nick Petrella: 13:03

Yeah, and you know, so could you or do you have like an old world style where the the artists, right? We're talking about 15th, 16th century, 17th century, the the artists do a bulk of the work that maybe the interns or someone else kind of does the coloring. And do you do anything like that or no?

Dan Gorman: 13:23

Um not yet, but that's possible that we may be we may be heading um in that direction. I mean, there are some of the comic book projects that we have going right now um are being you know pieced together. Um I know I'm on a project right now where um I'll be doing the penciling work and um one of the interns, Emma Patchen, she'll be doing the ink work. And um, and we'll you know, we'll figure out colors as we go. Um we have, you know, Damien has one of our one of our students, uh Don D. Wilson doing color work on one of his comic book projects, one of his personal comic book projects. And um, and then there's other projects, you know, coming in down the road that are that we've assigned, you know, hey, you know, this person's gonna do colors, this person's gonna do inks, you know, once those projects get rolling. Um so yeah, we're we're doing that a little bit. I would like to expand that um as we go into you know next year and the year after. Yeah.

Nick Petrella: 14:21

I imagine it would make things go faster and might be more cost effective for people who want you specifically or Damien.

Dan Gorman: 14:29

Yes, I I the i I think it would, and I I I think it does help. Um, so we'll see. We'll see how that goes.

Nick Petrella: 14:36

Yeah, yeah. You know, we we talked a little bit about fees and whatnot, and I'm wondering what all goes into your fee schedule or your fee structure, and does it differ when you're working on medical illustrations or comic book penciling or sketching?

Dan Gorman: 14:52

Yes, every industry job sort of has a standard of uh you know what you charge. And so, um, but I also am cognizant of budgets, you know, people have limited budgets, you know, they can't always pay, you know, top dollar, they can't always, you know, whatever. Um, so I work within you know people's budgets. So, you know, it's not about Route 8 Studios wasn't really intended to be about, you know, a money-making um situation. It was it was intended to be uh a studio where local artists who maybe needed some help could come, learn, network, um, and get opportunities that they wouldn't have got on their own. And um the fee schedules um are really based on what can the project afford, um, what what will work, what will get this, you know, off the ground, you know, that type of thing. And and and some of the things we do are, okay, we'll go ahead and do the work, we'll crowdfund it through a Kickstarter campaign, we'll get paid through the Kickstarter campaign, and then and then you as the you know the owner of the property will make you know whatever is yeah, whatever's left as a profit.

Nick Petrella: 16:14

So it kind of sounds like musicians or equity, there are certain standards that are that are involved. And so in the intro, I said that you're a member in good standing with the National Cartoonist Society. Yep. What does that entail? What does that mean for someone not familiar with that?

Dan Gorman: 16:31

So National Cartoon Society is a great organization. It's been around for a very, very long time. Um I didn't be really become aware of it until um boy, it must have been 2017, 2018. Um, but I sent, you know, I found, I discovered them, and then I sent a uh email to um to my local chaper chapter, uh, and it was answered by Polly Keener, who taught me cartooning at Akron University when I was 10 years old. And so she remembered me.

unknown: 17:06

Wow.

Dan Gorman: 17:06

She remembered me because I was the only kid in the class, right? I'm 10 years old, I'm in this cartooning class at a university and uh with all these adults, you know. And uh she remembered me, and so uh she sponsored me, you know, to become part of the uh part of the National Cartoonist Society. So um you have to, you know, if you you have to have a standing member sponsor you and vouch for you and and all that. And um, and so she did that for me and and I was able to get in, you know, as a as a member of the National Cartoonist Society. And um it's been it's been great.

Nick Petrella: 17:44

And did they help guide rates and things like that?

Dan Gorman: 17:47

Yeah, you can get there's a lot of information there um for cartoonists, aspiring cartoonists, um, even you know, longtime industry cartoonists, um on you know uh what what you might make, how how you get paid, how you find jobs, you know, that that kind of thing.

Nick Petrella: 18:05

Yeah.

Andy Heise: 18:08

Um this is this is um more of a curious curiosity, and it's not on our list of questions. Uh but since I already asked my next question, I'm gonna ask a different question. What what does a ghost hunting business do?

Dan Gorman: 18:22

So uh so we were on an episode of Ghost Adventures. Um it was season three. Um I can't remember, it's either the first episode or the last episode. It's the prospect place episode of Ghost Adventures. Um what we did what we do is our mission statement is to assist locations who want to uh advertise themselves as a haunted location and uh sell, you know, uh paranormal investigation opportunities as as a way to um make money for their you know, for their organization or their location or whatever. We work heavily with the Canton Palace Theater um in Canton, Ohio. Every fall we do a program with them, and um, you know, we we get a little bit of of the of the ticket sales, but the majority of that money goes to um helping the facility maintain, you know, things and and keep things running and and and that type of thing. So that that's that's what we do. We uh we don't we don't do like you know we're not like ghost hunters or you know what you see on TV. Um that's what I thought. Yeah, no, we do we we research this the location, we try to find out the history about it, um, and we and we uh go in and help them, you know, raise money to you know help to help them out. That's what we do.

Andy Heise: 19:49

Yeah, that's cool. Yeah.

Nick Petrella: 19:51

So Dan, I imagine running a Comic Con is a really involved event. Yes, and if there's someone listening who Wants to start one, what does it take to get a Comic Con off the ground?

Dan Gorman: 20:04

Well, it takes an incredible amount of ignorance. Um it takes an incredible amount of hubris and the idea that you can do it. Um I I I've I keep saying that when I'm all done, I'm gonna write a book called uh So You Wanna Run a Comic-Con. So that's going to be my book with all of my all the dirt, all the inside stories, everything that I've learned, you know, over the years. And uh it's it's really when you really want to make a mistake, is what is what you do. You go and you run a Comic-Con. So that's uh But what are all the parts?

Nick Petrella: 20:43

You have to look at catering, you have to look at hiring artists.

Dan Gorman: 20:47

It's an incredible amount of organizational um work that takes place 365 days a year. And um, you know, as soon as the last one is over, we begin working on the next year's show. And you know, you have to work with you know um agents and and guest personalities to book them for their shows. You have to negotiate contracts and uh you know guarantees and you know um you have to figure you know get all their information for flights and travel arrangements and all that. You have to work with the hotel, the get the host hotel that um is gonna be your location so that all your guests are taken care of. You have to, you know, figure out the the financial end of that, you have to negotiate prices on that, you have to find negotiate prices with your facility, which just seems to be an ongoing thing. Um and then you have to, you know, you're dealing with you know, we we have at Akron Comic-Con, we have about 140 vendors, um, you know, vendors, artists, and guests. Um, and you have to coordinate all 140 spots. And uh a lot of times people don't get what they want, and a lot of times people get upset, and a lot of times people get thrown out of the building. And that's just you know, that's are you serious? Oh yeah, oh yeah.

Andy Heise: 22:01

I've I've twice security is another security is another twice.

Dan Gorman: 22:05

I've had twice I've had to do that, yeah.

Andy Heise: 22:07

Um for for vendors.

Dan Gorman: 22:08

For vendors, yes, vendors who are upset that their their space is not um what they expected. And you know, you have 140 moving pieces that you have to try to assemble into a cohesive show and and presentation, and you know, every once in a while, you know, you you have to make a decision, and and not everyone is going to get what's on their list. Um but um it's so so it's it's I I don't know if I would do it again. I mean, maybe uh get involved in this. I mean it seems like I can't get out of it now. I mean, I'm back on Comic Con now for since 2019, and I don't know if uh if I'll ever get out of it at this point, but um you know it's getting it's getting close somewhere. Yeah, but um and then and then we're branching out to other shows. We have we have a horror show coming up on February 7th, um Acronomicon, um that'll be the February 7th, and then we then we just got involved in a series of mall shows at at local malls called and we called that Totally Geeked Comics and Collectibles Show. Um we ran our first one the weekend after Akron Comic-Con, so that was the middle of November, uh, at Great Northern Mall, and that went pretty well. And because of the success of that, now everyone wants us to do mall shows. So um, so I guess if I'm gonna tell anyone, you know, uh, hey, you want to run a Comic-Con, be careful what you wish for. That's my that's my biggest advice. Just make sure. Make sure that you know you know what you're getting into. Maybe ask some questions. Yeah, maybe talk to some people before you before you just well you you did give a tip.

Nick Petrella: 24:00

You you know, you beta tested, the mall shows seem to work.

Dan Gorman: 24:03

Yeah, the mall shows did work, but then but then what the when something succeeds, that creates more work, right? That creates more uh demand and that creates more, you know, uh pressure and that creates more, you know uh uh stress. So, you know, I mean, you know, I I'm sure that Tom Brady was as stressed out as his seventh was more stressed out as his seventh Super Bowl than he was at his first Super Bowl, right?

Andy Heise: 24:31

So yeah.

Dan Gorman: 24:33

So um then that's that's just kind of that's just kind of how it is. So be make sure it's what you want to do. Yeah, good. Yep.

Andy Heise: 24:42

Well, and and and my question with regards to the Comic Cons, you attributed attending attending Comic Cons and that sort of thing as part of how you helped how what helped launch your career as a comic book illustrator. Right. Um and so if you were um giving advice to um again, because I've got a lot of students that attend these things and have booths and that sort of thing, what advice would you give to somebody trying to maximize that experience um as they're trying to build an audience or start their careers uh utilizing uh uh Comic Cons?

Dan Gorman: 25:15

Yeah, so um uh one of the things that artists I think get frustrated with is that they expect to go to a Comic Con, they expect to sell their work and they expect to make money, right? Well, not every event is going to work out that way. So, and I kind of understood that going in. I wasn't sure, I didn't expect that you know doing Comic-Cons as a as an artist alley artist was going to be, you know, a huge money-making opportunity. So I approached it from a networking opportunity. I I I believe that my my appearances, my table fees, what the cost, you know, the hotel, the travel, all of that was an investment in myself in marketing myself. And so if I didn't sell any artwork, okay. But did I talk to enough people? Did I did I connect with enough people? Did I did I come out of there? And invariably, every single appearance, no matter how good or how bad it was, I came out of there with a connection. So if your goal is to your if your goal is to make money, uh I don't know that that's really the way to do it. If your goal is to um grow your network and find opportunities beyond artist alley appearances, then you definitely should do it. And and it helps you get your stuff out there, it helps you get yourself stuff seen and um and it puts you in a room, you know, full of other people who are doing uh what you want to do. And you know, and go talk to the bigger names, go talk to the bigger guests, you know, use that time as efficiently as you possibly can to help grow your network.

Nick Petrella: 26:55

That's great.

Andy Heise: 26:57

Yeah.

Nick Petrella: 26:57

Yeah, you know, one of the things that that I think you hit the nail on the head, and it's one of the things I tell my students when you're doing trade shows and things like that, you're probably not gonna make money, but you need to think of it as a marketing expense to help capture market share. Exactly. If you go into it that way, you know, it's gonna mean it prompts me to go out and network and talk to talk with more people.

Dan Gorman: 27:19

Yeah, like my my career was jumpstarted by the connections that I made at my very, very first Comic-Con appearance in uh in 2006 at uh Steel Citicon in Pittsburgh. Um the connections that I made there led to you know my first industry professional paid published work four years later. So you need you need to understand that that you're you're building a network that is going to pay off at some point. You know, just trust the process. You have to trust the process. Um and don't put too much pressure on yourself to be to be successful. Um, don't put too much pressure on yourself to sell stuff. Um, but use the time to make connections. Like now, like the knock on me now from from some of my friends is that when I go to a convention, I'm never at my table. Well, no, I'm never at my table. I'm talking to everybody. I'm I'm I'm I'm up talking to everybody because I'm trying to, you know, nurture those relationships, build those connections, revisit friends. You know, I don't really care about my table. I care about everything else. And so, you know, they're all like, You're never at your table. I couldn't buy anything. I'm like, you know, you'll find me later, you know.

Nick Petrella: 28:36

But before Andy kick no, I was gonna say, before Andy kicks off the final three questions, is what's the biggest Comic-Con? Is there one in Vegas? I mean, I'm not in that space.

Dan Gorman: 28:47

The biggest Comic-Cons are San Diego Comic-Con, um, New York Comic-Con, and um uh there's there's one in Orlando uh that's a big oh, and and Dragon Con in Atlanta. Those are the those are the big shows. Those are the really, really, really big shows. Um, Vegas doesn't really have a Comic-Con, uh a large Comic-Con.

Andy Heise: 29:09

But it's Everyday's a Comic-Con.

Dan Gorman: 29:11

Every day's a Comic-Con. That's uh that's absolutely right. Um But no, well, San Diego, New York, Orlando, and um and and uh Dragon Con in Atlanta. And if you have never done Dragon Con in Atlanta, everyone needs to do Dragon Con in Atlanta at least one time. It's an absolute experience. I mean, it's like it's unlike anything else you'll ever see in your entire life.

Nick Petrella: 29:36

Oh, that's great. We'll put that in the show notes. We'll link to that. All those. Yeah. Great.

unknown: 29:41

Perfect.

Andy Heise: 29:42

Well, Dan, we've reached the point of the interview where we ask all of our interviewees the same three questions. And the first question is what advice would you give to others wanting to become an art entrepreneur?

Dan Gorman: 29:53

Um just do it. Just just do it. Just uh just just do it. Just get your work out there um and and start to build your audience and your opportunities. And um, I I tell my students all the time, and this is the truest thing I can ever tell them, is that you know, don't don't hyperfixate on how good you are, whether you're good enough, don't worry about all that. Because beauty is in the eye of the beholder, and the world will decide what your artwork is, right? So you create it, you put it out there, you let it go, and you let the world decide what it is. I can tell you that some of my, what I think are some of my technically greatest pieces of artwork, nobody cares about. But my absolute garbage, which I've hacked out, uh, you know, half awake uh a night before a convention, has been my best-selling stuff. So you never know what's gonna hit and what's not. And you can't be you need to be self-critical enough to uh reevaluate yourself after every piece, see what mistakes you made, and fix those on the next one. But you don't need to hyperfixate on is this a is this a bad drawing? Is this bad? Is anybody gonna like this? Put it out there and find out. That's that's what I that's what I tell everybody.

Nick Petrella: 31:18

The market will tell you if it agrees. Absolutely. What can we do to ensure the arts are more accessible and reaching the widest possible audience?

Dan Gorman: 31:28

Support. Support local artists, support indie artists, support um small businesses. Um, you know, even you know, when you support a small business, even one that isn't involved in the artwork, in in art, they still need business cards and they still need, you know, promotional material, they still need hats and t-shirts, and they need signage, and they need and and there's an artist is going to need to create that for them. So so supporting small business, local business, and uh independent artists is the best thing that you can possibly do.

Andy Heise: 32:00

Great. Lastly, what's the best artistic or entrepreneurial advice you've been given?

Dan Gorman: 32:07

Um best entrepreneurial advice I've been given. Um don't sign that contract. That's been that's been my best advice. Um and I should have listened, yeah. So um be yeah, be be cognizant and careful of what you get involved with, who you get involved with, and when you get involved with them. Um don't if you don't, if something doesn't feel right, trust your instinct. You know, um there's been scientific studies that you know our gut instinct is actually more correct than than than what we give give it credit. You know, don't outthink yourself. If um if if it feels good and it feels right to do, go ahead. By all means proceed. But if you have any hesitation at all, just take a minute, think about it, talk it through, um, and don't end up getting involved in something that you're gonna regret later. Because I mean I've gotten involved in a few things where I'm sitting there, I'm doing the work, and it's it's absolutely uh excruciating having to do this, but I agreed to do it. I've got to get the work done. There's nothing, there's nothing I can do about it. The only sometimes the only way out of a situation is through it. And yeah, and um, you don't want to put yourself in too many of those situations because it's a drain on your creative energy, um, it's a drain on on your on your soul. It's uh it's you know, it's just it's not good. It's not good for you, and it's stressful and and it's probably affects your health. So um be aware of what you get into.

Nick Petrella: 33:39

Yeah. Well, that's well said. Yeah. Dan, thanks so much for coming on. I learned a lot, and I know our listeners are gonna learn a lot about what's possible by just hearing all you do in your multifaceted career.

Dan Gorman: 33:51

I appreciate it. Thanks a lot. Thanks for having me.

Nick Petrella: 33:53

Thanks, Dan.

Dan Gorman: 33:54

Thank you.

Announcer: 33:57

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