Picture a Valentine's Day baby who grows into a union titan, only to vanish into thin air—this is the enigma of Jimmy Hoffa that Sabrina and I unravel in a tale as gripping as any mobster movie. From his Detroit roots, where child labor laws were but a whisper, to the heights of the Teamsters' influence, we trace Hoffa's storied life while sipping on seasonal brews and discussing our family's union ties. As we immerse ourselves in Hoffa's world, we can't help but feel the weight of history in our very bones, acknowledging the struggles of the past and the indelible mark they've left on the present.
Could the key to Hoffa's disappearance lie in the tangled web of his mafia associations? We explore the shadowy alliance between the Teamsters and organized crime, the fierce battles with the Kennedys, and Hoffa's eventual imprisonment, which may not have dented his iron grip on the union's reins. The debate between Sabrina and me ignites over the nature of power—was Hoffa a mob boss in a union leader's clothing, or did the prison bars strip him of his clout? As we navigate these murky waters, we also pay homage to the 'Strawberry Boys' and the resilience of postal workers, a nod to the little-known heroes of labor history.
Finally, we wade through the swamp of theories that have tried to pin down Hoffa's last moments. From Kuklinski's ice-cold claims to Sheeran's cryptic warnings and the outlandish idea of an alligator's feast, we scrutinize each story with a blend of cynicism and fascination. The lore of Hoffa's legacy is as much a part of Michigan as the Renaissance Center, and as we ponder the whispers of his spirit, we invite you to join us in wondering if the truth might be lurking right beneath our feet—or beyond our wildest imaginations.
Picture a Valentine's Day baby who grows into a union titan, only to vanish into thin air—this is the enigma of Jimmy Hoffa that Sabrina and I unravel in a tale as gripping as any mobster movie. From his Detroit roots, where child labor laws were but a whisper, to the heights of the Teamsters' influence, we trace Hoffa's storied life while sipping on seasonal brews and discussing our family's union ties. As we immerse ourselves in Hoffa's world, we can't help but feel the weight of history in our very bones, acknowledging the struggles of the past and the indelible mark they've left on the present.
Could the key to Hoffa's disappearance lie in the tangled web of his mafia associations? We explore the shadowy alliance between the Teamsters and organized crime, the fierce battles with the Kennedys, and Hoffa's eventual imprisonment, which may not have dented his iron grip on the union's reins. The debate between Sabrina and me ignites over the nature of power—was Hoffa a mob boss in a union leader's clothing, or did the prison bars strip him of his clout? As we navigate these murky waters, we also pay homage to the 'Strawberry Boys' and the resilience of postal workers, a nod to the little-known heroes of labor history.
Finally, we wade through the swamp of theories that have tried to pin down Hoffa's last moments. From Kuklinski's ice-cold claims to Sheeran's cryptic warnings and the outlandish idea of an alligator's feast, we scrutinize each story with a blend of cynicism and fascination. The lore of Hoffa's legacy is as much a part of Michigan as the Renaissance Center, and as we ponder the whispers of his spirit, we invite you to join us in wondering if the truth might be lurking right beneath our feet—or beyond our wildest imaginations.
Welcome to Drunk Conspiracies and Drunk Conspiracies.
Speaker 2:Welcome back to another episode of Drunk Conspiracies. Tonight we welcome back Sabrina, my wife oh, hi and tonight we are covering Jimmy Hoffa. Jimmy Hoffa, love him um, yeah, if you don't know who Jimmy Hoffa is, then I don't know what you're doing with your life get with it it. Everyone knows Jimmy Hoffa.
Speaker 3:I would hope so. We are particularly interested in this because we actually are very interested in mob things. We have a mob named Cat Luciano.
Speaker 2:We also live in Michigan where Hoffa was lived Not from, but lived.
Speaker 3:Yes, it disappeared?
Speaker 2:Yeah, really not that, but lived. Yes, it disappeared.
Speaker 3:Yeah, really not that far from us.
Speaker 2:No, which we'll get into that.
Speaker 3:We will. I got a fun fact. He has fun facts.
Speaker 2:Don't worry. But yeah, jimmy Hoffa, yeah, so I'm actually excited for this episode.
Speaker 3:I am I really like delving into these things? Like I said, we met based on our mutual excited for this episode. I am I really like delving into these things? Like I said, we met based on our mutual love for this. Well, we met at work, but talking about our mutual love for mop things, it's so intricate, it goes back for a very long way in their history. We love it.
Speaker 2:Right. So, like every episode, we talk about what we're drinking tonight. So what are you drinking?
Speaker 3:Sam Adams Oktoberfest. We're very excited for fall.
Speaker 2:We can't wait for it like most people. We know it's only coming up on September. Yeah. But like Oktoberfest is out.
Speaker 3:It's out and this is I mean right now with samuel adams like octoberfest is kind of the closest that we can get. We do like to try a variety of things um yes this one, though we got, you can get in a huge case we got which we did which we did get in a huge case. So that's what I'm drinking right now.
Speaker 2:I I'm very excited for it. Yes, I started off with my normal natty daddy. He did Just. It gets me in the zone.
Speaker 3:It does. I did not. I started off with vodka and La Croix grapefruit because, well, I've been trying to be on a diet so I've been trying to avoid beer, but I'm indulging now. I am indulging in beer because I miss it.
Speaker 2:I love good for you, thank you, but um, yeah, so we're both drinking sam adams octoberfest tonight oh, my lord, and I'm loving it.
Speaker 3:Trust me, I'm enjoying this half. I don't. I could do this just so I could drink beer.
Speaker 2:Basically, also, I love the mob but mostly so she could drink beer mostly all right whatever I had to.
Speaker 3:I'm like I'm about to down this, I'm about to open another.
Speaker 2:All right, but our show tonight, or our shot tonight, not our show. Shit, we are doing Crown Apple.
Speaker 3:Yes, I'm not a big liquor fan. It's very heavy, but you know what we're going to do. This, we're going to do this shot.
Speaker 2:Our shot glasses tonight are from the movie Trick or Treat.
Speaker 3:Which we love. If you have not seen it, please watch Trick or Treat. Enjoy Sam as he is.
Speaker 2:Mine is actually of Sam and hers has his little lollipop.
Speaker 3:Yes, Our son even loves Sam.
Speaker 2:He knows who Sam is he loves him. So, but here's our shot Salud, salud.
Speaker 3:I didn't eat that. I didn't eat that it was smooth. Oh, that was not smooth, guys.
Speaker 2:Beer's better.
Speaker 3:No beer's better. I'm going to set this down so I can open another beer. Hold on Ugh.
Speaker 2:All right.
Speaker 3:You ready? I'm always ready.
Speaker 2:Cool, so Jimmy Hoffa.
Speaker 3:What do you know? About his early life Okay let's start him out so Jimmy Hoffa. So Jimmy Hoffa was born February 14, 1913 in Brazil, indiana.
Speaker 3:Yes, Now he was a Valentine's baby and he was born to John and Viola. Now his father died fairly early in his life. He was seven, it was about 1920. And he was from lung disease, unfortunately, I hate to see that. But after that his family moved to Detroit in 1924. He lived and was raised there Like he just like lived there the rest of his life. He was like loving this, right so. But he did have to leave school at 14. And he went to work full-time at a grocery store doing manually just to help his family out, because obviously it's very hard being a mom, like you know. That all fell on her. He was stepping up. I love that, by the way. It's unfortunate that children feel they have to do that sometimes because, being parents ourselves, I couldn't imagine my son doing that well being single a parent.
Speaker 2:It's not that she was single parent Her husband died but it is harder being a single parent, which I know because my mom was. Yeah. So it is harder for single parents.
Speaker 3:but it is harder and so it was really nice that he kind of stepped up to do that. But during this time, like kids could do that I mean now there's child labor laws and stuff you can't get a job at 14 especially at 14 oh well, no, you really can't not in a lot of places I was 14 the first time I got my job.
Speaker 3:I was 14 when I got a job at flapjacks you lived in like a very small southern town, of course pigeon, pigeon Forge, tennessee, kind of a small town but a huge, huge tourist place. Look, I'm going to be real, Like I had actually never really talked about or thought about Tennessee much, let alone Pigeon Forge, and then when I met somebody from there I was like oh, that's like a real place. People like live there.
Speaker 2:It is gorgeous, though, which shocks me, because everyone I talk to they're like oh, where are you from? And I'll be like Pigeon Forge, gatlinburg, tennessee. They're like, oh, I know where that's at, I've heard of there. I've been there, everyone's been there.
Speaker 3:Except for you, I have not Until recently. Yes, we did go, it was very fun.
Speaker 2:And our son loved it.
Speaker 3:He did. Yes, he was very afraid of bears, though he's very cautious. Our son is very cautious. We didn't even see a bear. He was so worried about seeing one Anyway. Anyway. Let us get back. So he did go at 14 to help work at a grocery store. Help his mom. What grocery store help his mom? What grocery store chain? I actually didn't.
Speaker 2:I was gonna look at, but I couldn't find anything and I got so caught up, okay.
Speaker 3:So where, where, where? Kroger a kroger's it was kroger's.
Speaker 2:He got it at 14.
Speaker 3:He started being um I think maybe a warehouse worker or a warehouse for a 14 year old. That's so scary Back then. Oh, it wasn't that bad.
Speaker 2:But no, it was. It was Kroger company, I think they called it or something, some shit like that.
Speaker 3:Okay, Cause like everything I I've actually looked at, I've only ever said a grocery store chain. They never actually mentioned it and I'm glad you've actually brought that up because I was kind of wondering and I was gonna look into it like where what?
Speaker 2:yeah, it was kroger. Did you mention when he moved to detroit? What? Year 1924 yes, four years after his father passed.
Speaker 3:Yeah, okay, so he did that put that out there. But when he started there, I guess like he was really really young, obviously, and he was a teenager there, but he did start out at the grassroots level of the grocery store. Yes, yeah, apparently he rose up pretty quickly.
Speaker 2:He did at like 18.
Speaker 3:Was it 18?.
Speaker 2:Yeah, do you know the backstory of how he, how he earned his respect from the other workers Was?
Speaker 3:that when they he like walked out, kind of Okay, what? Because all I read was like he left him and she's like no, I'm not working under this stupid ass guy Like.
Speaker 2:I'm leaving. And so at the time these, these union workers, which team Jimmy Hoffa was working like the docks, docks, yeah, dock work unloading trucks and shit like that. For Kroger he was making 32 cents an hour.
Speaker 3:That's such bullshit, right? I'd be so mad.
Speaker 2:He thought it was bullshit. Other workers thought it was bullshit and he got them to strike basically at 18. He got them to strike basically at 18. And the foreman was like, threatening everyone with their jobs and all this shit. Hoffa stood his ground to the foreman. He finally caved. Hoffa won the argument about the pay.
Speaker 2:He gave the foreman a list of demands and the foreman caved because he was going to lose all his people he had no choice so Hoffa won his first negotiation with the foreman, got him more pay and all this, and so him doing so, he gained the respect of all the workers who were on strike with him that worked with him, because he got him more money that's good.
Speaker 3:Well, it does show at a very young age he was probably very brave. Yeah, like. I mean, I don't know a lot of 14 year olds that would have really the audacity to stand up for anybody older than like well, he wasn't 14, he was 18 even so, even so no yeah, yeah 18 telling your foreman basically fuck you, pay me fuck you, pay me. Yeah, fuck you pay me. I love it.
Speaker 2:You're welcome, anyways. Yeah, so he stood up for himself and all the other guys he worked with got him more money, and so after that he just went on the rise with the union. I would have too. I've been like dude, dude, here's your corner office yeah, and that's what kind of put him in position of becoming who he was. Yeah because I believe it was a year later is when they pushed for him to do more with the union I did.
Speaker 3:I did see that it was like so in 1932 that he was tired of working for just like kind of a horrible, abusive foreman and that he did end up quitting that grocery. Well, I broke grocery chain but like apparently it was Kroger, hello, so he quit. But then after that he was invited to be an organizer with the local 299 of the. Teamsters in Detroit.
Speaker 2:And that came a year later.
Speaker 3:After that, well, yeah, after the negotiations, I'm sure the guy did not stop being an asshole no like man, fuck that guy once you're an asshole, you're always an asshole right it.
Speaker 3:Just you would think like treat your workers with some respect. They will work for you. Just don't be a dick I don't like whatever I can't and what year was that? Uh, it said 1932 like it was around that time. So like I'm not gonna do the math in my head right now, guys, I've been no, you're fine okay, I'm not doing it I'm just trying to get that time frame
Speaker 2:of when I want to jump in oh, when he met his wife and everything.
Speaker 3:Well, he met his wife I'm showing here in 1936 so april of 36 yeah, um, yeah, josephine, josephine, I'm not even gonna. I'm gonna try to pronounce her last name paziet paziewak paziewak pazachwek.
Speaker 2:Something.
Speaker 3:It's something, guys, we're trying, we're so trying. Something Polish.
Speaker 2:Sounds Polish.
Speaker 3:It does sound Polish. Honestly, we have tried looking up pronunciations from a lot of these names. We have had issues, but I guess they met during like a non-unionized laundry worker strike, because she was a laundry worker and then they decided to move and they lived in northwestern detroit.
Speaker 2:Um well wait, do you know where they got married? Where you don't no I didn't even see that what so it didn't say when they met, but it told me when they got married. And then they said how many months prior they met. So I just did the math they met in April of 1936. They married six months later, september, september 24th.
Speaker 3:Yeah, I saw that.
Speaker 2:In Bowling Green, Ohio.
Speaker 3:Oh, was she from Ohio.
Speaker 2:What. I don't know if she was from Ohio or just worked there. I'm assuming she lived in Ohio, because why else would you fucking get married in Ohio?
Speaker 3:I was about to say who would just go to Ohio to get married. You know what? I actually take that back. My brother got married in Ohio. My brother Nick did, but his wife was from Ohio. Just a shout out, Nick, you got married in Ohio, Anyways. I didn't go. I was having a baby at the time.
Speaker 2:We're from Michigan. Well, we live in Michigan. Neither one of us are actually from the state. No. But my whole family is. And if you live in michigan, you hate ohio not that we don't appreciate ohio.
Speaker 3:We think, why is it columbus?
Speaker 2:it's cool fuck columbus cincinnati cincinnati's cool oh yeah, we love cincinnati I had a good time in cincinnati with and, eddie, with my people. Shout out to you guys, you know who you are, but no, fuck, columbus. Ohio State is in Columbus. Okay, it's like a weird. Fuck the Buckeyes.
Speaker 3:He's holding true.
Speaker 2:If I don't know my followers. So if any of you are from Ohio and a Buckeye fan, I'm sorry but go blue. Anyways, back to it, I'm from. Texas Go.
Speaker 3:Aggies.
Speaker 2:They married September 24, 1936, bowling Green, ohio. They came back to Detroit where they bought a house, a modest house, so I'm guessing at that time a very nice house.
Speaker 3:Probably nice, like not in a terrible area, a modest house. So I'm guessing at that time.
Speaker 2:a very nice house, probably nice like not in a terrible area, which is good In northwestern Detroit.
Speaker 3:They had a lake home in.
Speaker 2:Oregon Lake, oregon, which is fucking right down the road.
Speaker 3:Honestly, like 20 minutes we're there, yeah, Like we're very close to Lake Oregon.
Speaker 2:But that's where they raise their children. My first fun fact they bought their house in detroit in 1936. My fun fact is what that would cost today in this day and age $1,024. Wait, $124. I'm sorry, the alcohol is hitting. Yeah $124,815 $124.94. That's a big jump. $124,815.94. That's a big jump. That is a big jump I mean, but 36 to 2020, that's also a big jump.
Speaker 3:Yeah, honestly, even today, I'm not a cheap person and I do not, um, what is it? Bargain or whatever? Well, I don't barter, well, okay. So I would like the most I would have done is been like yo make that an even number, take off the 94 cents that's all I would have done but at the same time today's day and age.
Speaker 3:I would not buy a house in Detroit for $124,000 well, in today's day and age, it's probably not worth a house in Detroit for $124,000. Well, in today's day and age, it's probably not worth it.
Speaker 2:But they're very much trying to. But back in 1936, Detroit was a good city.
Speaker 3:I mean it was. That would explain why. So my grandfather?
Speaker 2:You a GM.
Speaker 3:Yeah, my grandfather is from Texas and he came up here to work in the factories and stuff because at the time it was very, very good and of course he was part of the unions.
Speaker 2:My grandfather, worked and retired from GM.
Speaker 3:Yeah, well, no, I don't actually know if it was for GM, but I know that even after he died, up until my grandmother died, on my dad's side. My grandmother was born and raised in Pontiac and she was married to my grandfather. My grandmother was born and raised in Pontiac, and she was married to my grandfather and up until she died she was actually getting still pension checks and everything from them that really helped her and supported her because of course at that time she was a homemaker. That's all she knew.
Speaker 2:To be honest, it was probably GM.
Speaker 3:Yeah, and that's why they came up here. A lot of my family from San Antonio on my dad's side moved up here just for that, for the jobs, which was very important at the time, and honestly, it's weird that we've even met, because apparently our parents have gone to school together. Yeah, it's weird.
Speaker 2:My stepmom she's my mom and my aunt and my stepdad.
Speaker 3:yeah, went to high school with your stepmom they did so like it's so crazy for us it's a small world it is we? You know what we make it work. We do, we're not gonna say everything, but it makes it work. No, no.
Speaker 2:Anyways. Anyway, so yeah, he met his wife in 1936. They bought a house, had two children, whatnot I know so back in.
Speaker 3:So but he was, he was invited to join what?
Speaker 2:Another thing about his first time doing the no Good is Shames about his first time doing the no Good Shins. Do you know what nickname they earned?
Speaker 3:What was that? No?
Speaker 2:They called them the Strawberry Boys why? Because when he was 18 and decided to go on strike, what him and the other dock workers were unloading were strawberries. They had a big shipment of strawberries they were unloading and they were like you know what? Fuck this, we deserve more money. Here's our demands. They got their demands. They got their demands and after that people called them the strawberry boys because that's what they were unloading and what not. So that's when they were known as the strawberry boys the strawberry boys were gang, we called them strawberry boys.
Speaker 3:we love it like again. Whatever. Our son loves strawberries gang we call the Straw Bables. We love it Like again. Whatever Our son loves strawberries, we have to buy them for him every week.
Speaker 3:They're very expensive, if you don't know. Anyways, anyways, so yeah, so he joined the local 299 of the Teamsters in Detroit. Now the Teamsters were actually founded originally and I'm just going to say this in 1903. Now their official name is the International Brotherhood of Teamsters, but in 1903, they were actually two separate parties and they decided to join forces. Now the two separate parties were the Team Drivers International Union, which I'm assuming are truckers, and the Teamsters National Union, and so they were mostly truckers and warehouse men throughout the Midwest and that is who they would target for their union, which is good. Like I said, we're very pro-union. Like whatever yeah, I mean obviously. Like, yes, whatever they it's yeah, I mean obviously well, they don't pay me.
Speaker 2:Penske pays me, but they negotiate my pay every three years they're very important.
Speaker 3:Like I said, I have family in the union which I get a raise every year up until that three years where they renegotiate my pay well, I get a pay. I get a pay raise every year. I just don't know if it's union related.
Speaker 3:I know it's that yours is, I know it's not because, honestly, like, I had to sign a waiver when I first started with my job saying that I wouldn't join a union, so I'm not allowed union benefits. We will not say any of that, but all I will say is that I'm not allowed you're not allowed a union because of my job, right? Um, and that's what it was. So that's actually where that started from and I really wanted to know where it came from. Just because you hear teamsters and I've heard teamsters and you're part of the teamsters like my whole life and it's just really good to hear, like, to know, like how it started was because of these people and like truckers and them, honestly, like people look at them, I feel like such low-rung jobs and it's honestly like, even during this they do that.
Speaker 3:We've had, they've still been going and, fun fact, I love those truck drivers that these people look down on make a lot more money oh, they do yes, they do so, and I'm throwing that out- well, yes, but I think also, like a big heads, I mean big praise to them because, like I said, even during this pandemic they are still going, like they have to keep doing it yes and they deserve a lot of recognition.
Speaker 3:I think because this thing has severely messed up a lot of stuff. Like obviously, but they just kept going. They had to keep getting the food out. They can't. They had to keep delivering product out everywhere that in the united states postal office like they're unionized as well and I very much appreciate them. Like we would not have a lot of this stuff. It was enough for unionized people who are still doing their jobs. Now. I think that's important to say, just because should I throw out my other fun fact?
Speaker 3:oh, do it now if you have it.
Speaker 2:I don't even know we should.
Speaker 3:Honestly, we get too deep, honestly guys like look, we take separate notes on shit we do we do, even though we do our research right next to each other we don't look at each other's shit Like we're not paranoid. We don't look at everybody's. We don't but um, so I'm always.
Speaker 2:Yeah, before we get too deep into it, say it Fun fact. Do you know who the president of the International Brotherhood Is, what they called it? But, but basically the Teamsters, and the Union is now.
Speaker 3:I don't.
Speaker 2:His son.
Speaker 3:Oh, I heard that he started it. Is he still doing it?
Speaker 2:His son is currently still president of the Union right now, really.
Speaker 3:Yes, oh, my God.
Speaker 2:So good for him.
Speaker 3:No, yeah, we, yeah, we're very, that's awesome. I didn't even yeah he has a son and a daughter.
Speaker 2:He has the two kids I know what I've aged. Can't ask for more, but yeah his son is currently yep, I have it somewhere how old is his son? Oh my god he's. I think he's older than our parents.
Speaker 3:Well, he would have to be. My dad was born in the 60s.
Speaker 2:Not necessarily he was born around the same time. Oh, maybe I believe his son was in the 60s. Don't quote me on that.
Speaker 3:Isn't that so weird? It seems like it happens.
Speaker 2:His son- james philip hoffman is currently president of the teamsters.
Speaker 3:Wow, so yeah that's really awesome I love to hear that, like I said, like I mean we are obviously still in the union, I have family in the union, like because I don't I don't know if you'd say I'm biased about it, but I'm glad his son is because hoffa did.
Speaker 2:Hoffa did so much for the teamsters and the union honestly getting them the pay.
Speaker 3:I think he did, although here's the thing like I think he did. He did so much for them and I super appreciate it because obviously, like I do too my family is still in the union and I'm in the union he's in the union and they do all of this stuff and but at the same time, like for me, it's like I don't know, like there's a. There was also a lot of mob activity at the time that's what we're about to get.
Speaker 3:We're about to really launch into. But I just I don't know, it's weird, I'm not being like I support the mob and all their dealings, which really secretly like we really love the mob but we do not appreciate anything.
Speaker 2:I mean, we're non-violent, of course I support you stop you stop it because I've always said if I ever had the opportunity, opportunity to join the mob, I would in a heartbeat.
Speaker 3:He has said, he has said that, and guess what? I just the safety of my family.
Speaker 2:Like I, just, I get that, but at the same time not even gonna lie I have the biggest heart on for the mafia I love anything mafia.
Speaker 3:Like we said, our cat's name is luciano is luciano, and it is he's a mafia charles lucky luciano, who was actually one of the first mob bosses for the genevieve's family um and yes, so we, we love the mafia I've had. So I've had a couple cats with mob names like I would oh I would.
Speaker 2:I would join the mafia in a heartbeat. So stop it. If anyone listens to this who has mob connections, stop it.
Speaker 3:Hit me up hey, uh, no, we're cool, we're cool no, we're not cool, hit me okay we're just gonna keep doing this anyways no so let's, let's, dip into the mafia man god, no, I just guys, he like put it out there now, and I'm just what do you mean?
Speaker 2:no, I'm saying, let's dip into it, we're gonna actually dip into what do you, what do you know about how halfa and the mafia came about? So they got involved now obviously do you know how they got involved?
Speaker 3:I'm about to go into this okay, I'm asking actually I really don't know. I'm just gonna just I'm just gonna look at what I wrote. Here's what I'm doing tell me what you know, okay, so now by 1951 they were about a million members.
Speaker 2:What did you say?
Speaker 3:Or after I'm just saying they were like a million members or whatever. Anyway, so Hoffa ended up being really good. He was really good at doing quickie strikes, which would kind of equate to walkouts or whatever and you know, secondary boycotts, and he helped really organize workers and he really helped win contract demands. Now he made his teamsters and it was one of the most powerful unions in the us. It was really getting up there. Like I said, by 1951 they had a million members because they were mostly in the in the midwest and then because of the truckers and all this, they spread throughout the country. Now the trucking unions were heavily, heavily influenced and or controlled by the mob.
Speaker 3:Now, hoffa, he really had to start making deals and arrangements with organized crimes and mob I'm gonna say organized crime, like I don't know same thing it is, but like I don't know how, like weirdly, they take the word of mob, but like whatever, like be proud of it, um, now, so it had a lot of influence on the Teamsters and so they were able to expand and to that many, to that many states they were able to expand.
Speaker 3:I'm flipping my page if you hear that Um and this is what I have as far as early life like he was really getting into it and mostly because, like you, really had to start working with organized crime, which I don't think it's easy to start working with them. But he was like all in for it and I think for a while it was for people in the union, but then, like this became like a huge money-making thing for everyone, for Jimmy Hoffa, for the mob, the mob it became. It was a big money maker as well, as I believe that he was wholeheartedly invested as a previous worker that he knows what it's like, so he wanted to work for them do you know why it was such a money maker for both parties it wasn't because of the dues.
Speaker 2:There are union dues, dues by the way, no, there are union dues, but that's not why.
Speaker 3:Okay, don't tell me All right, I love being informed. It informs me so good.
Speaker 2:I do On different levels. Stop it Just go 1941. 1941. 1941. Hoffa and the Teamsters got into a turf war battle with rivals in Detroit.
Speaker 3:Okay.
Speaker 2:This is when he became involved with the mafia. He had the mafia get rid of which we all know what that means. If you don't, that means murder, sorry. We all know what that means. If you don't, that means murder, sorry. He got involved with the mafia, had them taken care of of the rivals after the mob owned and after that the mafia pretty much owned Jimmy Hoffa.
Speaker 3:I would think so. Yeah, that's something that would have been yeah.
Speaker 2:Right so.
Speaker 3:Ugh, I'd be so upset I could not kill anybody so after that they basically owned Jimmy Hoffa.
Speaker 2:They formed a relationship and the mob was able to benefit off borrowing money from the Teamsters pension fund.
Speaker 3:I have heard this so much with pensions.
Speaker 2:Yeah, so after so the Mafia was able to benefit from borrowing money from the Teamsters pension fund. Okay, and putting it into financing many Vegas casinos and, in return, hoffa and the Teamsters got a favorable return on the loans.
Speaker 3:I would imagine so.
Speaker 2:Yeah. So after Hoffa hired the mafia to kill off the rivals, the mafia was like alright, we own you, we're going to borrow money from the pension fund of the Teamsters, we're going to start all these Vegas casinos and you're going to make a good profit off of the loans.
Speaker 3:I would imagine how that would go. I mean, vegas was so important to the mob when it first started. I mean they had to borrow from somewhere, so this would kind of make sense where the money was coming from.
Speaker 2:Right, and a lot of times it doesn't explain where some of the money came from.
Speaker 3:No, no, it didn't.
Speaker 2:Now that you know it came from no, no, it didn't. Now that you know it came from the Teamsters pension fund oh, no, Right. Well, they got a lot of money back.
Speaker 3:Obviously they did. I mean the mob was very effective. Right, they were very efficient in doing this. They were just all on it, so they did that.
Speaker 2:But the relationship between Jimmy Hoffmy, hoffa and the mafia started going downhill in 1967 when hoffa started his 13 years since in prison oh, he did.
Speaker 3:Yes, did he get out early? He did and we'll touch on that that's what I'm wondering, because I heard that he actually got in trouble, um, and was brought up on charges like a few times, yeah, so hafa and the mafia had their relationship with the pension fund giving the mafia money to start all these casinos in Vegas and in return they made profits off of these.
Speaker 2:So they got their money back plus some which is good, but also in 1967 when Hoffa was sentenced to 13 years in prison for bribery, jury tampering and mail fraud, is what he got, the 13 years for.
Speaker 3:Yeah, he definitely, it was not easy for him. It was not easy for him obviously, like like okay, so robert kennedy, who we? All explained earlier was such a babe. Fuck you, kennedy. He was such a babe anyway. He was, just he did not like hafa. They had like a horrible, they called it a blood feud and well, he had that with the mafia too yeah, he was definitely. Honestly, it's kind of a bad idea to get into a blood feud with them yeah, I don't give a fuck if your last name is kennedy.
Speaker 3:You do not go against the mafia they were very proud, but that's the thing is, they didn't want anybody in power like that, like controlling such little things, especially with the with what the fuck did little bobby kennedy think he was gonna do to the mafia? Smiling me because he was so cute, fuck off how?
Speaker 2:how did it turn out? How did bobby kennedy in the mafia situation turn out?
Speaker 3:okay, look guys, there's a lot exactly it did not go well, honestly like. So. Jimmy hoffa really enjoyed antagonizing bobby kennedy. He, they, he so loved doing it and when they he was being cross-examined and all this stuff, like um hoffa would wink at him and make light of it and just really was setting him off.
Speaker 3:Like we said in the maryland monroe thing, he did tend to have a temper, he had a temper and he was so easily set off that he would get flustered and stuff during his questioning like no I don't think he was like I do appreciate the kennedys and everything, but he was that hot I appreciate JFK.
Speaker 2:JFK was one of the best presidents we ever had.
Speaker 3:We love JFK, his brother. Bobby was a bitch, so hot, but he's like no, look, I'm not the one who thinks this okay, but at the same time, like robert kennedy, he maybe bit off more than he could shoot with that but he did end up getting him convicted like there was a lot, there's so much with hoffa.
Speaker 3:Like in researching this, I was like there's so many names, there's so many dates, there's so many. I can't even with this. But it was, hoffa didn't care. Hoffa didn't care, he was gonna. He matched him toe for toe.
Speaker 2:He was never he had the mafia behind him which is probably why if I had the mafia behind me in any like lawsuit case whatsoever, I'd be flexing on that motherfucker too yeah, he would, but that was the thing it's like.
Speaker 3:So here, what was it um hoover, jagger hoover, he didn't really like bobby kennedy either, but any of the kennedys he didn't like any of them and he really wasn't going to get involved in like their dispute. He wasn't really like Bobby.
Speaker 3:Kennedy either, but any of the Kennedy's he didn't like any of them and he really wasn't going to get involved in, like, their dispute. He wasn't going to investigate and he wasn't going to do any of that. Um, but as soon as JFK came into power, our presidency, um, he really didn't have a choice. Like if Robert Kennedy was just like, no, you're going to like, look into them. Um, kennedy was just like no, you're gonna like, look into them. Um, uh, hoover was just like, fine, I have to do it. But then I guess, after Robert Kennedy died, that Hoover was like whatever, I'm backing off, like I don't want no part of this, like I don't even like the Kennedys, like whatever. Um, but he was a big part and they were. Robert Kennedy was doing things that were not legal to try to catch these mobsters. He was doing everything. It was not even his power. He was doing extracurricular things that were not even legal in order to catch these people and, to be honest, it didn't really work in his favor it didn't, obviously Robert Kennedy.
Speaker 3:Do you know how long the 13 years it didn't really work in?
Speaker 2:his favor. It didn't. Obviously, robert Kennedy had a horrible fate. Do you know how long? Do you know the 13 years Hoffa was sentenced to? Do you know how many he served?
Speaker 3:Like six seven.
Speaker 2:How many Take it down Four?
Speaker 3:No, he did not.
Speaker 2:You want to bet oh?
Speaker 3:my God. No, I don't want to bet, because we each did our individual research. So, want to bet, because we each did our individual research and so I just got caught up in those eyes.
Speaker 2:I was like I can't do it, fuck off. So in 67, hoffa was sentenced to 13 years in prison for the bribery, jury tampering and mail fraud yeah, you can't do that.
Speaker 3:Apparently it's illegal.
Speaker 2:You can't intimidate your witnesses in 1971, four years after hoffa was sentenced, president nixon pardoned. I did see that he on the promise that hoffa would abstain from any involvement with the union until 1980.
Speaker 2:I saw that and that was like really bad and obviously he didn't listen, he didn't which caused his death, which we're going to get into. We are. They're crazy theories. I'm going to get into more of how he got the Until 1980. He couldn't have any involvement. So, yes, hoffa only served four years of his 13 cents because Nixon pardoned him, and we're going to get so into that.
Speaker 3:I can't wait for him to do that because, honestly, like, I read that he had but I was like, well, what does this have to do with it? But, oh my God, like, do with it. But oh my God, like, why would you like he pardoned him? That was such that's a huge pardon, though, like of that amount of years it is. Like that just.
Speaker 2:And I will tell you why.
Speaker 3:Ooh, yes, I'm really glad he looked into that. He is like one guy I'm good at my job anyway, are we? Are we jumping to his?
Speaker 2:where do you want to jump to? What do you have?
Speaker 3:okay, no, just so where he was let out of jail okay, do you have anything?
Speaker 2:right after he got out of jail?
Speaker 3:I know he was trying to get back into it, which he was told he shouldn't and he can't, like, don't do it, but he did anyway. So obviously if he had power once, like why would he give that up so easily, like he couldn't?
Speaker 2:well, you know, you know who took over presidency when he was in prison, of that yes, yes, yes, yes, I have it somewhere. Okay, go ahead and say it while I look, I forgot his first name, but his last name was Finn Simmons.
Speaker 3:Yes, oh, okay, frank Fitzsimmons.
Speaker 2:That's who it was. Yeah, Frank.
Speaker 3:He was the new Teamsters leader and he was trying to make a power move. Well, hoffa was into the Teamsters under Frank Fitzsimmons. Now it was against the wishes of the Mafia, who they were really benefiting from their relationship with the Fitzsimmons. But Hoffa, he really wanted the power of Fitzsimmons. He was like no, I'm not going to give it up, like I'm not going to do this. And, of course, the mob. They didn't really want to trust Hoffa.
Speaker 2:Hoffa decided that he wanted to be able to expose everyone and be like no, this is why it's happening well, while Hoffa was in prison, even though Fitzgerald, or Fitzsimmons, was technically president of the Teamsters, hoffa still ran it.
Speaker 3:Of course, hoffa ran everything out of prison through finn simmons because, oh my god, and now he didn't want to give it up yeah what a dick. Why would? You I mean it's only the right thing to do.
Speaker 2:No, no hafa. Every hafa had no no. Hoffa had a lot of respect from those people and the union. He's not going to give up his presence because he went to prison. Let me ask you, okay, as much as we love the mafia and all the shit we watch with the mafia and all this shit when mafia bosses go to prison, do they give up their their boss status?
Speaker 3:they don't, but they don't, he wasn't a boss, he was a union leader. He is replaceable. He is not made no he's not a main.
Speaker 2:No, no, no, no. I disagree with you. 100 oh my god even though the status of a union president isn't as elite as a mafia boss, a maid member it doesn't matter, it does.
Speaker 3:In the mob world, you can't be a maid member, even if you have mixed blood no, no, no, no, no.
Speaker 2:I know that, but to me, and I'm sure to others, hafa isn't gonna give up his presidency just because he went to prison with just like boss mobs. No, I'm gonna give up. It's not the same, oh baby no, it's not love well guess what? Guess what he didn't. It didn't happen. And guess what it didn't happen fitzsimmons still went through everything that hoffa had to say hoffa's position was not guaranteed in the the mob eyes.
Speaker 3:like he was not guaranteed, you know why they get to keep him.
Speaker 2:No, I know it's not guaranteed, but he still wasn't giving up his presidency and he didn't. I get that, he didn't.
Speaker 3:Technically, technically at the same time. So here's the thing with mob bosses they are made, they go through a ceremony, they are established, those it's like like very important, it's very sacred, of which they go through and they don't know that they hold on to that. Jimmy hoffa was not a made mob member. He does not guarantee that the position when he went in that he would get when he comes out and he knew that.
Speaker 2:He knew he wasn't a mob boss or anything.
Speaker 3:So then why would they guarantee his job when they're just like no?
Speaker 2:It's not necessarily. They don't guarantee it, but he's like, yeah, I'm going to prison and they're going to elect a new president of the union. Yeah, but.
Speaker 3:He became a liability as soon as he went to prison. He's not a made member. He didn't become a liability until soon as he went to prison. He's not a made member.
Speaker 2:He didn't become a liability until after he got out you're not a made member.
Speaker 3:You, I know that's what I mean. Like he's not a made member, you go to jail to them. You have it's very the union and the mob are two different things I understand that, but they're not going to respect his union position just because he's in the union in partnership with the mob. Yes, they are and they did. They gave away his position to somebody else.
Speaker 2:Only because he went to prison. He still ran the union from prison.
Speaker 3:He doesn't get to keep his position. It's not set in stone. No, we disagree.
Speaker 2:I know it's not set in stone, but he still ran the union from prison and we are going to get into why.
Speaker 3:Fitzsimmons oh, we will get into it Because I agree with the mob Like according to their rules, like no it's totally different.
Speaker 2:It is different.
Speaker 3:Mob rules and union rules are totally different yeah, but they're not gonna respect the union rules over their mob rules. They don't give a shit no, it's two different things.
Speaker 2:They're not. The mob didn't run the union they were running it, babe.
Speaker 3:They were running it as much as everyone was trying to say like they didn't, and as much as hoffa's probably, like no, they didn't run it that much. No, even the government was like they're running this. They did not they know love. I am telling you. I'm telling you I'm on the side of the mafia. I'm like no, like he's, even though.
Speaker 2:Fitzsimmons was the president of the union while Hoffa was in prison. Hoffa still ran the union.
Speaker 3:It doesn't matter that he was running it. It's like who's labeled the leader of it.
Speaker 2:No, I get that, and I'm also going to get into all this.
Speaker 3:Oh we're about to get into it, because I am telling you what you've been doing now jump into it now because, honestly, the mob, they had every reason like no, you're not a part of this anymore. Like you're a liability outside of organization. Even though you work with an organization, it doesn't mean that you are a safe person.
Speaker 2:I know that, all right, I'm getting into what I know. We're getting into it, let's do it. And what I know is facts.
Speaker 3:So I almost said mafia. They had no loyalties. They had no long lasting loyalties to Jimmy Hoffa as their leader the mafia has nothing to do with Hoffa's prison and the union that's what I'm trying to tell you. That's what I'm saying as soon as he went to jail.
Speaker 2:I know, but you keep telling me that the mafia is like oh, hoffa's not going to run shit from prison. The mafia had nothing to do with this aspect of this.
Speaker 3:I'm not saying that. I'm not saying that he wasn't going to run things from prison. I'm saying that they don't care if he did or not. It's about who's going to be the public face and really controlling it. And even though he was running these, okay, obviously we disagree. Honestly. I agree with the mob, like the mob has their thing.
Speaker 2:You can agree with the mob all you want. I agree with the mob, but what I'm saying is Hoffa going to prison. Fitzsimmons becoming president of the union has absolutely nothing to do with the mafia.
Speaker 3:If it has to do with their, like, monetary ties, yes, it does later, but directly, no, it doesn't okay, explain it. Let's get into that. Let's let him explain this, because I'm like no, no sir so 67.
Speaker 2:Hoffa goes to prison. 13 years he's in prison. Fitzsimmons becomes president. So 67, hoffa goes to prison. 13 years he's in prison. Fitzsimmons becomes president of the Teamsters and the union while he's in prison.
Speaker 3:Okay.
Speaker 2:Hoffa is still running shit. They elected Fitzsimmons as president because they knew through Fitzsimmons Hoffa could still run shit. So he did. Frank Simmons worked with President Nixon to get Hoffa out of prison. Fitzsimmons went to Nixon and said listen, if you get Hoffa out of prison you will get the support of the Teamsters as a presidency. So Nixon, so, and there are tapes of President Nixon and Frank Fitzsimmons. The tapes show Fitzsimmons wanted Hoffa out of prison so he could keep. So he could keep sorry, I'm looking at my notes he could keep control of the supporters of Hoffa. So with Fitzsimmons getting Hoffa out of prison, he would have the support of the union workers who supported Hoffa. Nixon thought pardoning Hoffa would endear him with the workers. So it's on tape Fitzsimmons and President Nixon.
Speaker 3:I have a lot to say about this.
Speaker 2:No, you can after I'm done. But the tapes show Fitzsimmons and President Nixon saying if you pardon Jimmy Hoffa but restrict him to no involvement of the union until 1980, I can have the support of the nixon follower or the um hoffa followers to vote for him. So what? What fitzsimmons did was he made a deal with nixon okay, pardon jimmy hoffa out of prison, so I'll get the vote of the supporters of hoff, but On the conditions Of him getting released from prison, he can have Zero involvement Of the union Until 1980. Yeah.
Speaker 2:Yeah, so Nixon agrees to that, because With Nixon Pardoning Hoffa, he would endear the votes of the workers.
Speaker 3:I get that. Why would Fitzsimmons give up that power, though he's not giving up his?
Speaker 2:power. He made the deal with Nixon. He's like look release him from prison. In what year was it 76? Yeah, something like that. He's like look release him from prison. In what year was it 76?
Speaker 3:Yeah, something like that.
Speaker 2:But don't give him any power in the union until at least 1980.
Speaker 3:And he came out wanting power and they're like no, it's not the deal, like get out of here.
Speaker 2:I know, I get that. I know, I get that. But on the agreements of the pardon, hoffa couldn't do anything with the union until 1980. So Fitzsimmons and Nixon both looked at it as, hey, fitzsimmons is going to get Hoffa out of prison. Hoffa's followers, which he had a big fucking following in the union, were going to be like, hey, you got Nixon out of prison, you have my vote. Vice versa, nixon is like alright, I got Hoffa out of prison, I have all your votes as presidency. Do you get what I'm saying, though?
Speaker 2:I get what you're saying, but at the same time, the mafia had nothing to do with that, until later, when Hoffa If Fitzsimmons had such a relationship with the president and all this stuff to say, why would they give that up?
Speaker 3:Like the president's really listening to you and like Hoffa didn't have any rights to any sort of power until 1980.
Speaker 2:Exactly that until 1980, that would give Nixon and Fitzsimmons another years in their positions, but Hoffa didn't listen. I know, and that's what caused his death. Yeah, I know we're jumping into shit right now. We're jumping into it right now.
Speaker 3:We're jumping way ahead it caused his death because he couldn't accept that. And that's what I'm saying.
Speaker 2:It's like you can't come out of well, they didn't necessarily think that hoffa was gonna come out and be like you know what, fuck it. I know I'm not supposed to do anything until 1980 yeah, and he won it anyway I know he did, but that doesn't take away from the fact of what I'm saying and what happened.
Speaker 3:I totally understand that.
Speaker 2:I'm just saying saying that you don't Because you don't agree with it.
Speaker 3:They had. I mean he was going against it. He had every right. They had every right to be like look, dude, you're not agreeing to this Like, you're like dead. That is why I mean if they were gonna kill him, like Also they. That is why I mean if they were gonna kill him like also. They said that he had kind of like a argument with like Tony Pro he had a lot of no we'll get into all that we're gonna get into that we're not even into the conspiracy theories all I'm saying is like of his
Speaker 3:death obviously what it just sounds like he came out being like yeah, I know you made these deals, but like whatever. I know you made these deals, but like whatever. Fuck, yeah, I'm going to fight through it.
Speaker 2:No, I agree with you 100% on that.
Speaker 3:He had no right to do that.
Speaker 2:But what you're trying to argue is that the mafia had a play in all this, when they didn't.
Speaker 3:Okay, no, you're right. If he didn't that he didn't and was against the president. He didn't, but don't you think he would have went to the mafia and been like yo? This guy's not listening, and this is the deal. Can you take care of him?
Speaker 2:No, because of what We'll get into that too. The mafia. You want to get into the conspiracies.
Speaker 3:Let's get into the conspiracies now. Obviously, this is all what happened.
Speaker 2:Well, wait Before we jump into the conspiracies. We got to touch on his disappearance.
Speaker 3:He disappeared. Yes, and honestly, that's actually the most. How does, how does this happen? All right. Okay, we're going to jump ahead because obviously we disagree on some parts of like whatever. So, we argue very nice that you can tell yes, it's so nice.
Speaker 2:All right, you very nice that you can tell it's so nice. Alright, so before we jump into it, in 1976 it was revealed that the Team Stern's largest pension fund had been robbed of hundreds of millions of dollars. Jesus Christ. And two weeks later Hoffa disappeared.
Speaker 3:Okay then Are they related?
Speaker 2:Probably oh more than oh, yes, oh yes, absolutely so, jumping into the disappearance, we're going to jump in I like it. I like jumping, in which I have another fun fact coming up oh.
Speaker 3:I like the fun facts.
Speaker 2:So July 30th 1975. Hoffa was seen outside of the restaurant.
Speaker 3:Yeah.
Speaker 2:I'm going to butcher the name.
Speaker 3:Oh yeah, I have a hard time with it too. Guys, we tried to look this up. We did.
Speaker 2:It's either it's like Munches or Munches Mockus, mockus, we did it's. Either it's like Muches or Maches. Machas, machas. We'll go with Machas. That seems so close. So Machas Red Fox.
Speaker 3:We looked into it. We don't know how to pronounce it In.
Speaker 2:Bloomfield Township. Fun fact, it's 40 minutes from where we live right now.
Speaker 1:So, now that you know where we live, so fun fact we live 40 minutes away.
Speaker 3:We did live closer, we did Like 30 or 25 to 30 minutes closer.
Speaker 2:We did, but yeah, we live 40 minutes from where he disappeared, fun fact.
Speaker 3:That is a fun fact. Please don't look us up.
Speaker 2:No, but in Bloomfield Township.
Speaker 3:This is why it's so close to us, because we're very close to it, and our parents were kids at the time that this happened.
Speaker 2:Right, but anyways. Right but anyways. It's reported that he was to ask to meet two acquaintances yes, at the restaurant at 2 pm.
Speaker 3:Do you know those acquaintances? It is tony pro and another tony tony jack, tony jack, yes, tony Jack yes.
Speaker 2:Anthony, Tony Jack G Colano, G Colano.
Speaker 3:G Colano.
Speaker 2:Yeah, something like that. And then Anthony, tony, pro Pro Valonzo, no Pro Valonzo.
Speaker 3:Pro Valonzo.
Speaker 2:Same. Thing.
Speaker 3:You had a scene song in there.
Speaker 2:But they never showed up.
Speaker 3:No, he was very upset about this and he called his wife from a paper At 2.30, he called his wife told him what happened, he was like whatever, I'm coming home.
Speaker 2:And then eyewitnesses said they saw Hoffa get in a car with three men, and that's when he was never seen again.
Speaker 3:And it was at the Red Machas, or whatever.
Speaker 2:The two Anthony's, both had solid alibis. Tony Jack had an alibi that he was at Southfield Athletic Club talking to people he knew and even people he didn't know. So it's rumored that that's a weird alibi.
Speaker 3:Yeah, he was making it out to everyone like, hey, I'm here, I'm here, right, you see me, I'm here, Right, you see me, I'm here.
Speaker 2:And then Tony Pro was in New Jersey at the time at a union place playing cards with I believe it was his brother, I think so, something like that. But we'll get into more of the new jersey aspect of his disappearance, yeah, but yeah, so those two never showed up. They didn't and they were basically called. His wife said what happened was upset. I'll be there for dinner like whatever and then it's rumored that that Hoffa was seen getting into a Mercury marquee with three men.
Speaker 3:With three men.
Speaker 2:It's rumored that that car was driven by Charles Chucky O'Brien, who was actually a prodigy of Jimmy Hoffa.
Speaker 3:Yeah, but at this point it's like everyone's trying to against him and it's so sad because, just like he was just calling his wife like hey, no one showed up, fucking piss, turn on the grill, like whatever, I'm going to come home, we're going to get the fucking food started, like I can't even Like ugh. He thought whatever, whatever, I'm just being stood up and turns out that two like three people showed up and we're just like hey, yeah, get in the car like it's fine, this is a great car.
Speaker 2:Get in and then, guess what he goes missing, the fuck which will we're gonna get into all the conspiracies. Crazy conspiracies, but my God, I'm going to jump ahead a little bit. Please do and be like. It's known that he got into this Mercury marquee. Mm-hmm. With his disappearance being such a mystery, I feel like he had to have been known very close to the people in the car. Yeah, you don't just get into a car of people you don't know.
Speaker 3:He had to have known them. He had to have known and especially like with all of his like political views and shit, you would have to think that he would look at people and be like, oh yo, hey, what's up? Yeah, I know this happened. Okay, I'm gonna get in your car. Like you do not just get into a car with people that who just pull up and they're just like except for now, because there's uber there is uber, but there was no uber at the time.
Speaker 3:He was not calling an uber, he was selling his bike and he drove himself. So why would he call an uber, even if it was uber?
Speaker 2:because they found his car the next day.
Speaker 3:Yeah.
Speaker 2:At the restaurant.
Speaker 3:Yes, they did. He did not take his car anywhere.
Speaker 2:No, he was just like yeah, okay, I'll get in. They said he got into this Mercury Marquis, don't get in the car which to like all through the investigation. All this, charles Chucky O'Brien denied ever being there and picking up Jimmy Hoffa, although years later they found Hoffa's hair in the car, which you could argue because he was such good friends with O'Brien and he was his prodigy O'Brien.
Speaker 3:Yeah, that his hair was in there and he was his prodigy yeah, he could have been in the car other times. Any other time.
Speaker 2:But years after his disappearance they found hair in the car. It's also rumored that him and O'Brien had a falling out because Chucky O'Brien wanted a bigger role in the Teamsters in the Mafia and Hoffa didn't give that to him.
Speaker 3:No, there's a lot going on. I wouldn't either, so that could give motive of why Chucky was have. Look somebody who has died recently. They know what happened and there's just so many conspiracies as to what has happened. I can't. It's a lot. The conspiracy theories are crazy.
Speaker 2:After Hoffa disappeared. When they looked at his car they had they found a deep cleaning of that Mercury. Marquee O'Brien claimed that he was sent by other union representatives to go get a 40 pound box of salmon fish and take it to another a union associate's house. He was yep. He claims the salmon leaked in the back seat and that in and the blood went everywhere From the salmon so he had to have it deep cleaned.
Speaker 3:That's nasty.
Speaker 2:When the police Don't do that. The police sent their search dogs To sniff out the car. When the dogs were sniffing, they found Jimmy Hoffa's scent, the back seat and the trunk.
Speaker 3:But like if he was friends with him, like, yeah, his scent would be everywhere.
Speaker 2:Why would his scent be in the trunk, though?
Speaker 3:My scent is probably in the trunk of my friend Kari's car Because I put stuff in the back over there. And look, I have long hair, it sheds. It probably got in the back somewhere. And look, I have long hair, it sheds, it probably got in the back somewhere. Yeah, it's like all over the place, my hair I've shed on dogs. I'm like, hey, fuck you dogs, how does it feel to be shed?
Speaker 2:no, no after such a recent disappearance and the dogs find the scent in the back seat, in the trunk.
Speaker 3:And they didn't charge him. Is this like a political cover-up? Well, they didn't charge him because they didn't have solid proof. No, they need a body. A lot of people want a body. Some things there's not a body.
Speaker 2:No.
Speaker 3:Okay, can we go over the conspiracies and what happened?
Speaker 2:So he's at the restaurant we are. That's one of the conspiracies and what happened. So he's at the restaurant we are.
Speaker 3:That's one of the conspiracies.
Speaker 2:Here's where we are All right, go to your conspiracies.
Speaker 3:There are some crazy conspiracies.
Speaker 2:You guys, let's get into the crazy ones.
Speaker 3:Okay, that they sold. Okay. So here's what they're saying they picked him up whatever he got. They're saying that at so conspiracy, saying like they picked him up whatever he got. They're saying that at so conspiracy theories of how he disappeared he was sold to japanese automaker automakers, um, as scrap metal. How does that happen? They're saying that what happened and this was done by a mob hitman who said his name was richard kuklinski as the ice man now before he died in the mid 2000's.
Speaker 2:He actually made this claim if you've never seen the movie the Iceman, watch it. Phenomenal movie. He was a hitman slash serial killer but he was, he hired by the mob for many, many hits. He was a serial killer on his own. But he was hired by the mafia for a lot of hits.
Speaker 3:So, well, obviously you would hire a serial killer for that. Gross. Anyway, they're saying that okay. So how he's saying it went down is that Hoffa was stabbed in the head and killed with a hunting knife.
Speaker 2:Hunting knife yes.
Speaker 3:And that the body was put in the boot of Kukulinski's car and driven to New Jersey.
Speaker 3:Yes, and then he had the car crushed and impounded in the scrap metal press, yes, and in the junkyard, and then it was shipped to japan and he has said to have said he's part of a car somewhere in japan right now. Honestly, like, let me just say I do not think. I mean, even if you crush somebody in a car, they're not gonna be like, oh, this piece of weird human bone is a part of a car now and no, that doesn't happen. You crush, it's gonna be disgusting. Okay, humans are like giant jelly full of balloons. It's disgusting, like it's not gonna happen. And so saying like he's a part of a car now, nah, I don't think so like there's.
Speaker 3:There's a whole lot of grossness happening with the human dead body that you can't just crush it into metal and then it becomes fused with that property immediately, like that's not happening. But they're saying that that's what happened and that's where he is and he's in Japan and created it into a bunch of different cars and now people are driving these cars Like no, you would be like scraping shit off. You'd be like what is this weird shit on this car?
Speaker 2:I gotta scrape it off. So yeah, so anyways, richard kuklinski, aka the ice man, went on record saying before his death, before he was on his deathbed, he claimed to kill Hoffa. He claims he was paid $40,000 to kill Hoffa. Drove to Detroit with four men, kidnapped Hoffa, knocked him out, stabbed him in the skull with a hunting knife and then drove him to New Jersey, where they crushed the car or sent it to Japan.
Speaker 3:Japan, yeah.
Speaker 2:I didn't write down the quote I should have, but he's quoted saying that he's in Japan crushed. He's part of a car's in Japan crushed.
Speaker 3:He's part of a car somewhere in Japan right now. Yeah, that's what he said. And no, that doesn't happen. And let me just tell you, from here to New Jersey that's a long fucking drive with that kind of smell 10 hours.
Speaker 2:We've driven it. We've driven that.
Speaker 3:We've driven it to go to a warp tour and trust me, atlantic City. Atlantic City. That's a long fucking drive with the smell that bad. It is and trust us, it's not a fun drive.
Speaker 2:Well, no, no, I know I like to do this at the end of the show.
Speaker 3:Yeah.
Speaker 2:But I'm going to debunk this one right now.
Speaker 3:Please do, because it's ridiculous.
Speaker 2:Richard Kuklinski did not kill Hoffa? I don't think so. He is known for over 100 plus murders. Let it go murderer. He did not kill Hoffa. No, he likes to brag about his kills. Ugh. And it's not known, but my opinion.
Speaker 3:I don't think so.
Speaker 2:He didn't kill Hoffa.
Speaker 3:No, especially not being like oh, we crushed a car and he has a car in Japan right now. That's not what happens, you don't get crushed death as a human and they can suddenly turn into enough of a metal like a metal substance to be a car. Like that doesn't happen. No, I'm sorry, like you're weird.
Speaker 2:I think after he got caught A gross mess and was brought up on these charges and all these murders and shit, he just wanted the fame of being hey. I killed Hoffa too.
Speaker 3:Yeah, everybody wants to be the person who killed Hoffa, because it's so mysterious.
Speaker 2:So no, as much as the Iceman fucking killed a lot of people, hoffa was not one of them, in my opinion.
Speaker 3:But I think probably every serial killer, slash hitman at the time wanted to be the person who would kill them Because it would bring so much Like it would add so much to their file, like they'd be so badass if they did it, when really killing anybody does not make you a badass, makes you terrible, right, just saying all right number two.
Speaker 2:What's your next theory?
Speaker 3:he was fed to the alligators. So a mr charlie allen he was a former mob hitman and a one-time Hoffa bodyguard said that he was in witness protection for over a decade and he gave interviews to the Richmond Times Dispatch and it was said that he abducted, stun, gunned and murdered Hoffa by an unnamed crime boss who ordered it. Do you know the crime boss's name? No, it was annamed crime boss. Who ordered it and said that they crime boss's name?
Speaker 2:no, it was an unknown crime boss, because there is one that they said that I haven't heard this one.
Speaker 3:Okay, this is a one that this guy is refusing to say the name of the crime boss that said it, who made him do it?
Speaker 2:he's probably dead by now probably he does well at the time.
Speaker 3:I don't think the guy was okay and then he was, because he was still over a decade in witness protection. And then he had said like, yeah, he wanted me to do this and it was an unknown crime boss I'm not gonna say his name and that he they, after they kidnapped him, stung him and they killed him while he was stunned, and then they just decided to ground up his body, they shipped it to Florida in barrels and they fed him to the alligators, and that is it there.
Speaker 2:I think that's ridiculous.
Speaker 3:It is ridiculous because if you're going to kill Hoffa, like honestly they needed him to disappear very quietly so that nobody would be up against it, like during all the selection stuff, but at the same time, like they were probably like he just need him gone, everybody needs him dead. But like let's just not attach any names to it, like I get it, but at the same time, like this one's ridiculous and that a charlie allen who was just like yeah, yo, I used to be a hitman and I was a bodyguard for him, so I killed him. No, you probably didn't. And did you really ground up a body and ship it in a shipping container? How much does that cost to ship somebody in a shipping container?
Speaker 2:Well, it depends on your connections, because I have some theories that include that.
Speaker 3:That very same thing. That's bizarre. Anyway, that's disgusting and I'd be very offended as an well, I guess as an alligator you'd be very welcome to free food. You're like, thank God it's meat. But that was one theory. There is another theory that he's buried under Detroit's Renaissance Center. It's an urban myth, yeah, and it was told by a mafia chauffeur who turned into an informant. His name was marvin marvin elkin, and they said that, yeah, they kidnapped him, they killed him and they buried him in wet cement when they were building the the fucking Renaissance Center.
Speaker 2:Interesting.
Speaker 3:Yeah.
Speaker 2:We've been there.
Speaker 3:I know and that's another thing that they've said Like these are crazy theories as to what has happened to him. Like a lot came out. These are just like a few. They said that, oh, here's a crazy one. This one is crazy because, as sophisticated as the federal authorities and shit set like tend to be, this one's crazy. They're saying that two federal agents came found there and, with the flash their badges, managed to get him in their vehicle and that they threw him out of an airplane that they had rented over the Great Lakes. And this was said by a Joseph Franco who was an associate of Hoffa's and that's what he said had happened. They said that, let me see. He said he was a thief, an extortionist and a leg breaker and a hired killer. Said he was a thief, an extortionist and a leg breaker and a hired killer. And he said he kept it to himself because he really wanted leverage for immunity in case anything came up, and that's why he never said anything. No, that's why he wanted.
Speaker 3:These are crazy. Can you imagine being federal agents who were we really like Bobby Kennedy? What we're going to go do is we're going to go kidnap this guy. He's got some shit happening. We're going to just like kick him out of a lake. Oh my God, if this really happened, I'm going to feel so bad.
Speaker 2:I don't believe that one.
Speaker 3:Can you believe that, Like, just like, we're going to throw him out of a plane, Like why? I mean, I don't understand murder in general, Like why would you want to murder? Anybody but at the same time they're like we're going to throw him out of a plane. He's going to die in the Great Lakes, like who the fuck? Who does this? The feds apparently.
Speaker 3:Apparently that's who they say is doing it. But then they have number five, who I have written here is Frank, the Irishman, sheeran yes, of course, and Justin and I really have a very strong appreciation. We do have a strong appreciation for the Irishman here, yes, also, we looked forward to them forever and we watched it and I think they got totally, totally wrong and blacklisted during the awards, like it deserves something. But it was apparently on orders of the philadelphia mob boss, russell buffalino, and they wanted him dead. Now they did not want they were. They were going good with everything. They didn't really want him to come back. They thought he was kind of a liability, do you?
Speaker 2:know where Frank the Irishman, sharon. Sharon, yeah. Came into this situation, how he became part of the Mafia and Jimmy Hoffa. They thought he was like a truck driver or something, and he was like a military guy or something, and he was like a military guy Hoffa originally hired Sharon to kill the rival people that he went to battle with and that would secure Jimmy Hoffa's leadership as the Teamsters.
Speaker 3:So remember earlier when I said Jimmy Hoffa hired the mob and everything to get rid of the rivals yeah he hired frank, the irishman sharon, to kill them which I think people are saying, like maybe his version is true because he would trust frank in any vehicle he rode up in to be like, hey, get in.
Speaker 3:Like he trusted him, like frank was like that's my friend and my friend didn't suffer right and he was like telling them, like in any other scenario where half would have died, like frank was his friend and didn't want him to suffer and he didn't want anybody to make him suffer or feel any pain. So he did it in a way that, even if you watch the movie, did anybody watch the movie? Um, we did, and we saw that, like it was apparently like a very strong relationship and he, he thought that if anybody was going to kill him, it was going to be him and he didn't want anybody to get hurt, he didn't want his friend to suffer or to feel scared, he just wanted it over with. So he did it very quickly because death was, I don't know, a normal part of who he was, I guess right, and so sharon claims to have picked up Jimmy Hoffa.
Speaker 3:Yes.
Speaker 2:And drove him to an empty house where he shot him in the back of the head Twice, then took Hoffa's body to a funeral home run by the mafia.
Speaker 3:Yeah, I've heard them all. Piss him.
Speaker 2:And cremated his body. Oh shit, do dude all the time. And the only reason Sharon ever came out about this is because on his death bed he felt guilty about killing his friend. Yeah, and he said he even sat. He said Jimmy Hoffa was used to sitting in the front passenger seat. And when they picked up Jimmy Hoffa, sharon said he sat in the front passenger seat instead of letting Hoffa sit there as hopefully to try to send him a message as something was off. Yeah.
Speaker 2:To try to warn him that, hey, something's not right. I'm sitting up here to let you know.
Speaker 3:You would have thought that maybe he would have seen it and a lot of mob things I've seen, like just always be aware of your back, like you don't really want to sit in the front seat a whole lot, so why would he want to be able to sit in the front Like it's? I don't know.
Speaker 3:It's crazy, I mean they were a lot more subtle about it. Like, honestly, like if I was sitting in the front seat and, like my friend Kari was sitting in the back and y'all have met Kari, like I'd probably turn around, be like get out of the car, don't do this, get out, please. Um. But I guess with the mob, like it's either like you or them, if he didn't get the signal, he didn't get the signal, um, I'd be very desperate about that signal. I. I mean, if I was just sitting in the front seat and somebody was sitting in the back, he'd be very desperate about that signal. I mean, if I was just sitting in front of someone and they were sitting in the back, I'd be like this is odd, what is happening? I don't trust this. But you can never say, I guess, until you're in that situation but there's one more theory I have thank god he has a theory.
Speaker 2:Jimmy Hoffa was killed by savator savator big ulyrio big lyrio yeah, what she said Roland McCaster's horse farm in Milford Township. Fun fact. Milford is right down the road from us.
Speaker 3:Very Okay. So another fun thing and let me tell you that this is not fun for me at the time when I first moved to Michigan for the first time, because I moved here again for the second time three years after. This was in 2013. And when I first moved here, I heard about it on the news they were doing an excavation of a property not too far from where my dad lived, of a horse farm. They were looking for Hoffa. I got so freaked out because my dad lives in a very rural area we live definitely next to a horse farm and I was like freaked out that it was happening. I was like, oh my God, oh my God, dad, this is happening, like they're looking for him. My dad was like, no, it's not here, it's not here, like they're never going to find this man. I'm sorry, they're not and they're not and they're not going to ever find him.
Speaker 3:We know that and my dad was trying to tell me that and like assuage my fears, I guess. But it had freaked me out because milford is not that far from where my dad lives. My dad lives in a very rural area, very much by a horse farm, and so when it was happening it was like all over the news and I was like totally freaked out because I didn't want to be the house that was sitting on top of Jimmy Hoffa. But at the same time it makes sense, like where Jimmy Hoffa was taken from is not far from where my dad lives and um, where I lived at the time, where we live now, it's not, but there is a lot of farmland, there is a lot of open space where I mean, a lot can go wrong, like if you don't know the area, if nobody's looking for you, like nobody will ever find you. There's a lot of space. And I was very freaked out and to hear that it was in Milford. I didn't even know where Milford was at the time because I just moved here.
Speaker 3:I lived here for like a month. When I heard that, I was like holy shit. I was frightened because I honestly did not want the ghost of Jimmy Hoffa anywhere near me. Not that he's scary, just ghosts in general I don't want around me. Anyway, that was really scary.
Speaker 2:So in 2006, the FBI searched the farm. They didn't find anything, but but found nothing. Of course. It's rumored that Brigulio how do you say it, brigulio? Yeah. I don't know how do you say it? Yeah, stuffed Hoffa in a 55 gallon drum and sent a mafia control and sent him to a mafia controlled landfill in New Jersey. The truck company that provided the truck was run by a Teamster Pension Fund truck trustee. Sorry, I'm getting my hiccups.
Speaker 3:He's in the hicks I always do. He does I love it but. I would, man, that makes sense. Like, of course you want somebody trusted to be, like yo, in charge of this, but at the same time, like no, no, don't murder people like I'm, just so against that I'm, I don't want to be haunted, that's the thing. Like, please, but anyways.
Speaker 3:So, with all that being said, it's rumored that tony pro, one of the original suspects, who was supposed to meet him that day yes, ordered the hit on a hoffa because of a conflict that had happened while they were in prison together in pennsylvania I definitely believe that because tony pro really, really, really wanted um a top tier like level position in with the teamsters and stuff, and they did get into it pretty badly when they were in prison together and it's rumored man, I don't know how to fuck with tony pro tony pro threatened to kidnap Jimmy Hoffa's loved ones or pull his guts out if he tried to become president again.
Speaker 2:So Tony Pro threatened Hoffa by saying I'll either kidnap your loved ones or I'll pull your guts out myself if you try to become union president again, which he did.
Speaker 3:He did try he did try and I think in doing that like I mean, we have a family I would most definitely opt for me to be hurt than my family, wouldn't you?
Speaker 3:well yeah, we have a son like, we would not want anything like, honestly, I, I would do horrible things to keep my son safe, um, and I don't care. But if somebody was just like, honestly like though, if somebody was just like, oh, I'm gonna kidnap your family or hurt you if you ever run, I'd probably be like you know what, I'm gonna spend time with my family, you'll have fun. You'll have fun being mobsters, I'm gonna be cool.
Speaker 2:But I guess he could not do that no, and with all the whole tony pro situation, it's rumored that Hoffa found out that the mob and Fitzsimmons paid off Nixon and he was going to go public with it and that would have ruined Nixon, that would have ruined the mob Fuck. Nixon.
Speaker 3:Nixon did nothing.
Speaker 2:Well, they didn't want that to happen.
Speaker 3:And it did anyway. Who the fuck cares? Well, they didn't want that to happen, and it did anyway. Who the fuck cares?
Speaker 2:Well, they say it's rumored that the money that the mafia and Fitzsimmons paid Nixon to Vegas and paid $500,000 to a council member of Nixon, and it's rumored that they sent him more money over a million dollars in time and that was the money that was used to try to cover up the Watergate scandal.
Speaker 3:He was never getting out of that scandal. They like fucked up. I know, the mob was like fuck you, we got you.
Speaker 2:But that was the rumors, Look.
Speaker 3:I have no idea what happened. I know that the mob killed him. Everyone knows the mob killed him.
Speaker 2:Alright, so.
Speaker 3:They know we killed him. They're the only ones who could get away with something that fucking shady, and I appreciate them for that, but that is the only way that nobody would know.
Speaker 2:Alright, so we're gonna wrap this up. We are. What is your final thought? What do you think happened to Jimmy Hoffa?
Speaker 3:I'm kind of leaning towards what the Irishman, like Sharon, said, like he had to have only gotten to a car with somebody that he would have trusted Right, not anybody shady. He would have had to trust the person. He car with somebody that he would have trusted Not anybody shady, he would have had to trust the person. He was just like oh yeah, I'm getting a car with you. Because if it was only the people he was meeting that was there to get into the car, like I don't think he would have done it. He knows how the mob works, he knows how they are.
Speaker 3:I don't think that he would have gotten into any sort of vehicle with anybody who wasn't anybody he would have trusted. And I think, because he did trust sharon so much that maybe he did get in the car with him and he probably, sharon, probably cared about him enough to be like, look, I'm just gonna be the one to do this, like I don't want my friend hurt or suffering or tortured, like it's gonna happen quickly. The mob often does, I feel, do executions very quickly because they want to get in and out. But I think, I think sharon would have wanted to have been the one to have done it because that was his friend and he was so close with mob bosses that he would have been like no, just let me do it. Like fuck, like who the fuck cares? Like, um, I killed a bunch of people, I'll kill him like it's my friend, I care about him and so I feel like it had to have been somebody that he trusted, like sharon.
Speaker 3:it may not have been him, but I feel like it had to have been somebody he trusted enough. I don't think that hoffa was stupid enough to get into any sort of vehicle or to go with anybody that he didn't know personally. So, yeah, it had to have been somebody like Sharon. All these other people were like, well, I was a driver for him or I used to hit for the mob when I get into any fucking vehicle. That somebody that I was like this is a hit man for the mob, like, yeah, I'll get in the car with him. No, I was like this is a hitman for the mob. Like, yeah, I'll get in the car with him. No, fuck, no, I'm not doing that. I don't think he would have either. I'm not even familiar with the mob on a personal level and I still wouldn't. I'd be like I heard you're like a mob hitman, I'm not getting in the car with you.
Speaker 1:It would have to have been somebody that he knew he trusted.
Speaker 2:He was okay with it, and I agree with you. But I'm torn.
Speaker 3:Why.
Speaker 2:I believe it was either Sharon, I believe. On his deathbed he truly felt guilty and killed it about killing his friend and killed it about killing his friend. But I kind of also believe the theory about Salvatore Briguglio, briguglio, yeah, about killing him, stuffing him in a drum. And taking him to Jersey Did he trust that guy.
Speaker 3:I just don't think that he would have gotten to in this type of situation. He would never have gotten to any situation. Anybody that he felt would harm him. He I don't think he thought he was indestructible. You had to have known that at his age where he went he would not have done it.
Speaker 2:I think to have known that at his age where he went he would not have done it I think in that situation is when his protege, chucky, whatever was driving the car, they said I don't know. So I don't know. All I know is I don't think j Jimmy Hoffa. He may have been killed in Michigan, but his body was not.
Speaker 3:No they wouldn't have kept it here.
Speaker 2:No. No so they'll never find his body.
Speaker 3:We do not think they would ever find his body Like that's there's no way, no, no so. But I think it had to have been somebody that he knew.
Speaker 2:Oh, for sure.
Speaker 3:Because in those type of positions and stuff, like he was as deep as he was, like he wasn't going to I mean, he had the law after him even. Like you had to have known that he would just only go with somebody he trusted Only. Like like if somebody drove up to me, even that like I barely knew them, I'd be like I don't think I'm gonna get in the car with you, dude, like I don't want this right, right.
Speaker 2:So thank you, yeah, on the show. Okay, I love you.
Speaker 3:I love you too.
Speaker 2:And uh yeah.
Speaker 3:I'm just God. It disturbs me, I'm sorry. It disturbs me.