In this week's episode, we're joined by Francine and Nicole Gomes, sisters and business partners at The Cluck 'N' Cleaver.
We explore a lot on this episode, so hold on tight! We'll dive into everything from creating a business strategy to the changing world of technology. They'll share stories of the importance of research, innovation, marketing and the possible origins of Louisiana Hot Chicken.
Francine provides industry insights from the world of Chickens, and Nicole provides her take on how being a celebrity chef has influenced her in the day-to-day world of running a business.
On The Podium, we're joined by Jordon West - friend of the show and trained chef - to discuss our Top3 favourite comfort meals. There's a few surprises this week - including a promo code for Cluck 'N' Clever, a Seth-story about a cow, and a surprising change in his opinion of Blue Cheese.
Have a napkin ready for this mouth-wateringly delicious episode, as we dive into business from farm-to-table.
The Biz Dojo - Podcast, Production & Professional Coaching
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In this week's episode, we're joined by Francine and Nicole Gomes, sisters and business partners at The Cluck 'N' Cleaver.
We explore a lot on this episode, so hold on tight! We'll dive into everything from creating a business strategy to the changing world of technology. They'll share stories of the importance of research, innovation, marketing and the possible origins of Louisiana Hot Chicken.
Francine provides industry insights from the world of Chickens, and Nicole provides her take on how being a celebrity chef has influenced her in the day-to-day world of running a business.
On The Podium, we're joined by Jordon West - friend of the show and trained chef - to discuss our Top3 favourite comfort meals. There's a few surprises this week - including a promo code for Cluck 'N' Clever, a Seth-story about a cow, and a surprising change in his opinion of Blue Cheese.
Have a napkin ready for this mouth-wateringly delicious episode, as we dive into business from farm-to-table.
The Biz Dojo - Podcast, Production & Professional Coaching
Website | Facebook | Instagram | LinkedIn | Twitter
This week we have a very special promo code brought to you by the cluck and cleaver. Get two free chocolate chip cookies with any purchase until the end of this month. That's February 28 2021. Ellen only for purchases made online for pickup curbside or delivery. Put a click n cleaver.com. or download the app to place your order. use promo code Zed s x seven nine G.
Seth Anderson:Welcome to Episode Three season two here in The Biz Dojo this week, we caught up with Nicole and Francine Gomez, two amazing entrepreneurs who have started their own chicken restaurant here in Calgary called clucking cleaver or chicken joint as they termed it. We had a lot of fun. I mean, our first four person interview, what have you, what did you think JP,
JP Gaston:I was worried for people in a zoom call. I'm sure a lot of our listeners are on zoom calls with like, you know, 20 to 30 people, and it's just a nightmare. But we're used to just be in three of us. And so adding that fourth person was a little bit scary, but maybe because they're sisters, and they're on the same same wavelength. Then at that number of times, they said the exact same thing the exact same time by but it worked out. Well. I really enjoyed that conference. I
Seth Anderson:know if we were playing like Jinx or whatever that game is with kids, there would have been some coke sewed around the room, I think. But it was it's it's tough. It's an art, right? It's an art to kind of know when to say something and when not to and who to speak. And I thought they did a phenomenal job finding that balance as we went along. But it's tricky. For sure.
JP Gaston:I feel like they've done it once or twice before.
Seth Anderson:Yeah, no,
JP Gaston:I don't think there's been there's been a couple times they may have been interviewed. I don't believe it was their first interview.
Seth Anderson:I'm pretty Yeah, this
JP Gaston:was not their first rodeo. Sure.
Seth Anderson:I think, you know, for me the biggest learning in this one like I I guess the biggest learning for me is I learned a lot more than I was expecting, right? Like, I didn't know I didn't go in with any expectation. I try not to go to any like I just want to you know, go in and have a conversation, but I wasn't expecting to learn so much about chicken.
JP Gaston:Yeah, I didn't know there was so much. I thought there was chickens. And then there was food on your plate. Yeah, that was that former chicken
Seth Anderson:now in Edit. There you go. But lots more to it. I think we could make an infographic honestly about chicken ology.
JP Gaston:I think this is the third time you've talked about an infographic about chickens, since we recorded that episode. So I feel like
Seth Anderson:I know this one. Because I feel like we need to share, we need to share the chicken wisdom that we have gained, right? We need to spread the word we need to evangelize.
JP Gaston:Okay.
Seth Anderson:Maybe we don't, but I'm just saying I'm, I feel like it was some good information that people will enjoy. Here's the thing.
JP Gaston:The episode also goes into more than just chickens. We do we do you get into a lot about starting a business, especially a business that has been run for a couple of years and in sort of one way in one format. And then they pivoted a little bit, and now they're operating a slightly different model. And I thought that that was the difference between those two was very interesting.
Seth Anderson:Yeah, no, it was it was it was very, I don't know, it's like anything. It's like any startup, any people that we've talked to run their own business, they're up against a whole host of challenges that have been amplified through COVID. And they found a way to, you know, not only stay relevant, but be successful. And on the other side of this, you know, they want to grow and I think they were they're going to be very successful. You can just tell they're determined.
JP Gaston:Well imagine that with a family member. Like, I can't imagine going into business by myself or with someone that I you know, is is close, but not that close. And family can make that hard.
Seth Anderson:Yeah. Yeah. No, I think it's hard just dealing with people in general. Like,
JP Gaston:you know, humans are hard to deal
Seth Anderson:you having to deal with me all the time. Like it's not easy. It's you know, we make it look easy, but what's that look on your face,
JP Gaston:there's a lot of editing. So this episode is one that includes Nicole Gomez, we kind of talked about her off the top there. But if you kind of recognize the name and you're not sure why it's because she's a celebrity chef, you've probably seen her on Food Network. You've probably seen her on CTV you've probably heard her on CBC or seen her on different shows all around. She was a Top Chef, all star champion, which is pretty dang impressive. And she was the finalist in Iron Chef gauntlet. So she was kind of a step away from becoming an Iron Chef on basically our Jeff America, the American version of the old Japanese Iron Chef show. So I did think that that you know, some of that conversation was going to go down that path of you know, talking about that career, and when We were just so excited to talk about chickens.
Seth Anderson:And as it were, you know Francine and I had swapping stories about hobby farming and what would a great The Biz Dojo podcast be without a story about the farm. So, you know, all you listeners get excited you get to hear another tale from my childhood Hobby Farm and also some from France scenes. So let's, let's get into it.
Voiceover:Today on the pod we'll be talking to Francine and Nicole Gomez about creating business plans, seeking mentorship as a business owner, dealing with today's changing customer culture. And we'll get an education in business restaurants, and all things chicken and stick around after the show as we discuss more mouthwatering delights on the podium. So welcome to The Biz Dojo, season two, Episode Three with Seth Anderson.
Seth Anderson:Welcome to the dojo. Very exciting episode. This week, we have our first four person interview. So we'll we'll try to make it as seamless as possible and not talk over each other. That might be a little tricky, but Welcome to the dojo, Nicole and Francine. And I think your titles are amazing, by the way. So Francine, Director of poultry at cluck and cleaver, and then Nicole the chief chicken officer. Amazing. How did you guys come up with those names?
Francine Gomes:Well, we wanted to do something witty, just didn't want to have like regular old titles because we're both partners in the business. So really, titles were kind of arbitrary. In the end.
Seth Anderson:It's awesome. It's got like a fun spin on it and but also gives you a sense of what you guys do. So that's that's amazing. Nicole, you also many people probably know you from a variety of cooking shows, including Iron Chef, Top Chef, all stars and the like. So welcome. Really excited to have you guys today. Thank you, you know, diving in, you guys run cluck and cleaver. That's your business together. What was the genesis of that? I think sisters running a restaurant together that could come with a lot of interesting events or whatnot. So how did that all come about?
Nicole Gomes:Essentially, it came from the love of chicken. I mean, like anything that we believe in. We love things that we're passionate about. And I am a chef. I've always loved fried chicken. I've been cooking fried chicken for a long time. I actually my first food job was can't see
Seth Anderson:I also worked at KFC as well. So I'm an alumni. There you go
Unknown:was a great job. And Francine is a hobby farmer but also a hobby chicken farmer and we were kind of just like joking around over a beer about it. And it was like that'd be hilarious if we owned, you know, fried chicken joint. And that's kind of how it happened.
Seth Anderson:That's awesome. I don't know, it almost feels like creepy but I come from a background of a family of hobby farmers. And we had a we had chickens and we had many goats at some point, the least practical animal I think on Earth. One of them was named Merlin lived in the house for a little while it was it was quite an adventure, probably farming anyway.
Unknown:I mean, why he was living in the kootenays and my next door neighbor, we had to make her job there my next door neighbor when I was there, he required his first coat and I think he has like now a dozen of them or something. They're like pets though they are just that's like they're in his house sitting by the fire cuddling with his dogs. It's pretty amazing.
Seth Anderson:That's funny. What What did you learn from Hobby farming that you've applied to cluck and cleaver and your business strategy?
Unknown:Well definitely learned a lot about chickens. It really opened my eyes to the chicken industry. You know, the misconceptions because there's so many and the humanity of the animals and just the process of raising them I learned a lot about the genetics of them and and why the chickens are the chickens that we eat. I learned about a lot about the heritage and so it was pretty it's pretty. I didn't actually think going into hobby farming that I would actually apply it to a business endeavor later.
JP Gaston:Your first chicken purchase wasn't Hey, I know that a few years from now. Yeah. This chicken business and opening multiple locations. There wasn't there wasn't your first thought.
Unknown:No, no. I was like oh these chickens are fun. I want fresh eggs. That was my first thought and good meat. I mean I've always been about good quality meat fanzines a hunter guys really Yeah, she can skin an animal quicker than the other guys out there. Yeah, for me it's food is always like been a big part of our lives. Right, Nicole? We grew up our whole lives revolved around the dinner table and what we're going to eat next. I think we when we go on vacations, our whole trip start with what do you want to eat this morning? Okay, what are we going to go eat this afternoon we're going to eat this evening and then all our destinations revolve around what we're going to eat and try
JP Gaston:well and I understand that you did a southern trip to specific Look at chicken. What was that? Like it like? It seems like you were trying to expand on your business or better understand the industry. I think it was very early on, you know, after you It's still early on. It's it's a few years in, but it was early on and you've kind of explored some, some new options that you've brought back. What? How did that kind of come about?
Unknown:That's a funny, that was a great trip, Francine. And I love to travel, we've been able to travel a lot and eat chicken everywhere. But research is the number one thing for this project. And what triggered that trip was actually we took a course on quick service restaurants, one model that was operating out of Kingsport, Tennessee, and the surrounding area, and it's a militant type operation that was drive thru only and they were so fast is called pal sudden service. And it was suggested we go do that course from an A and W executive. They put all their managers to that training. So we went to do that and then inspired Hey, while we're down there, why don't we just go and rent a car and drive through the Blue Mountains and like, do the thing and eat fried chicken everywhere from like a gas station to the hottest spots in Nashville? Discover what hot chicken was? And God did we eat our faces off? But Oh, God, so much chicken. Yeah. And so much barbecue. Oh, but just so much eating in general, we were excited. And also the states ahead of us, in many ways in Canada, through their marketing techniques, their efficiencies, just based on purely volume of people and population. So they have they're a little bit ahead of us in those aspects. And that's what got us to do the trip. You know, you always learn from observing and getting getting in there and live in it. It sounds like was there you know, one or two restaurants that really stood out from that trip that you got inspiration from and brought back a friend seek and attach to one barbecue place that she fell in love with? Oh, yeah, that place was so good. But going into what was that one Nicole that we went to with, like the origins of Nashville Hot chicken. And she told us the whole story of her family friends fried chicken. Yeah, it was like in this little really dodgy area of Nashville. And actually, when we got dropped off there, they were they told us Do not leave the shopping center and safe and they had to have full time armed security there. But that was like the origins of what they claimed to be the origins of Nashville Hot chicken was at that location. And apparently with her great great grandfather story like that about he was working the fields and he wanted to like he made the tickets. So hot, though what it was, there was an affair. Remember, her uncle had an affair and his wife found out and made him like the hottest chicken to burn his mouth off literally. And he loved it. And then it became a thing. Yeah. That's right. That was the story. I couldn't remember the full story. But yeah, that was the story of right at the she and the lady that actually like one of the generations. Like I think it was like three or four generations, she was still sat there. And just like sat there as everybody fried chicken. And like the lineups were long and it was so busy. And I think it's been like that forever. It was a crazy, it was a crazy place to visit.
Seth Anderson:I had no idea. That was the origin of national logic. That's amazing.
Unknown:It wasn't I mean, the chicken wasn't like, I think it's the story more than the chicken. It was so the chicken was so greasy. They had to serve it on pieces of bread to soak up the grease. That was the purpose of the white bread. Yeah,
JP Gaston:I have had the the mother clucker. And we you know, we had a bit of a pre call conversation where I mentioned that as well. It is by far my favorite
Seth Anderson:of the barely left my house in like a month. So I haven't tried this but it's on my put it firmly
Unknown:download a download the app and order it right from your seat at home. I live
Seth Anderson:in the middle of nowhere. So it's probably not.
JP Gaston:I happen to live like five minutes from the co op where you guys fairly recently opened up a store so I can I can get my fixes rather quickly.
Unknown:Yeah, it's kind of nice to do your shopping at the same time. Well, exactly.
JP Gaston:You had that location on 14th Street running on your own in your own little space. And then yeah, now you're in Co Op inside another business. What's it like to operate a business inside another business?
Unknown:Well, it's definitely different. I mean, when they approached us about the concept, I think the only reason we consider it is because the values that they have really aligned with ours. We knew that they'd be good partners because I mean, essentially that's what it ends up being we are a business inside of business, but they're still in their space. So we knew that they'd be a good partner to work with. It's a very different dynamic than because I mean its location is more of a suburban market to right versus the more urban market in the beltline area. So discretionary spending that people choose to spend their money on different and how we get known is a little bit different because a lot you know the downtown beltline area core is kind of known as a double destination for food, restaurants, entertainment. So people that are going down there and looking for that, whereas in these smaller communities, not quite the same, nobody, nobody's driving to the co op thinking,
JP Gaston:I'm gonna go find some great lunch or great dinner somewhere.
Unknown:Exactly. So it's definitely a different dynamic of trying to establish ourselves in that market. And understanding it better. mean being inside a store is a lot different. But it's been a really great test to, you know, the food Hall concept on how that would work working inside another business and understanding the suburban areas. Friends you mentioned, cuz it's a different vibe. Like when you go into the store at beltline, it's like there's music blaring Well, right now we're not open in store, the beltline, but normally walk in there, it's a takeout joint only, there's like, there's loud music playing. There's an energy, it's a lot different. It's more brick and mortar. The buildings really got that vibe. But I think it's been a really, I agree a frenzy. And it's been a great partnership with Co Op. And you know, there's hopes that they would go in many Co Op locations. Yeah, it's kind of a, it's a test. I mean, there was a test for them to I mean, they had this idea because they were doing, they had their own fresh to go market. And they found they're like, well, let's leave the food operating to the specialists. Like we don't specialize in food food operation. So why don't we bring in some partners and local businesses and they did approach. You know, originally, Blombos was on them in there. And unfortunately, they've made a decision to after COVID to change that direction. But they, you know, it was it's, for them, it's a test as much as it is to see how how, how that might work. And they wanted to offer something different to their clients and their customer base, right, do bring in something, something that they can access? Yeah,
Seth Anderson:I think I really came to appreciate Co Op during COVID. Prior to COVID, I'll be honest, I just thought that's like the most expensive place to shop. And I would actually avoid it even though it was like a block away from my house. But because it was a block away from my house during COVID. I started going there more and just noticing how much local product they have, which sort of flipped my mindset, right? Like I could go there. And I could buy a locally roasted coffee. They've got their Kellen Gary's brand. And yeah, some of the things may cost a bit more. But you know, you're kind of giving back to the local community which aligned with my values, and therefore I started shopping there a lot more. So is that part of the attraction on your guys's side of things?
Unknown:Yeah, most definitely. Nicole and I talked about this. And, and they, even since the time we've been there, they've even opened up severing some of their buying ties with federated, and going a little bit more independently in a different direction allowed them a little bit more freedom to work with even more local vendors, you know, I was chatting with them there. And the number of local vendors that they bring in is is quite a hefty number to manage. And that's probably why a lot of grocery doesn't bring in as much local product because it's so it's a lot of work to like maintain and manage. It's
Seth Anderson:a little unwieldy to have been vendors for one product versus consolidating.
Unknown:Our number one core value in our business is relationships. And that doesn't just extend to our customer base. It extends to our suppliers, the people, we work with our landlords. And every time we make a decision that we go back to that, because let alone just in life, like relationships are quite important, right? If you're going to build something, it's going to work together towards the goal, and I think caught up with a really good thing, you know, and we hope to continue to thrive there.
Seth Anderson:Is there been other key relationships that you've built through the business? that are working really well for you guys?
Unknown:Um, oh, yeah. Well, yeah, priority is a big one. Actually, we've grown stronger in our personal relationship as sisters through this business, which isn't necessarily an after effects that we thought would would be the case, we thought it would be the other way around, we did think that we'd be like, stronger sisters. And then, you know, the business relationship would be a little bit trickier. But it was actually turned the other way around the business relationship, built our relationship as sisters as well. So it was really good. And it's like anything that you want to be successful. It takes the effort on both parties to make it work. So yeah, it's kind of like we trust each other. There's never we don't argue about money, which is shocking. It's actually just more personal stuff. Like, why why did you talk to me like that?
JP Gaston:I didn't like the tone of your text message.
Unknown:Literally, that it literally is and it's helped us communicate better. And I mean, it kind of parlays into like, it's a trickle effect into your employees and how you speak to them. How you look at everything, and how you manage your business and set the tone right. So it's kind of it's been good because it's so different than me in my chef world. And that's why French scenes operations that I'm not is because in my chef world, it's like what are you doing, do it now. You know, and Francine is more like you can't talk to the kids like that. Now, you know, we're young adults, Nicole. It's from the get go of when we first sat down to write the business plan before we even agreed to get into business together, because I mean, I was really hesitant. I'm not gonna lie, like, because I was living my kootenay I was living my retired life in the cooties. I had a chicken farm, I worked part time, I did basically live in my retired life. And then she's like, come back to the city and work 80 hours a week. And I'm like, What? That's crazy. So, but you know, it was a concept that we had talked about way before I moved there. And it was so relevant still, while we were talking about this. Yeah, yeah, we were talking about it eight years, 810 years longer than that. It was probably back in 2000. I think it was as far back as 2006 2007. We started talking about this concept. And just kind of in a joking haste because Nicole and I worked together a lot. When I lived in Calgary, before I moved to the Goonies. And we had worked at quite a few restaurants together. And the dynamic was always Yes, Chef, because she was my older sister. And I was always it's we chef. And get it together. Well. Yeah, I always laugh because I go Yes, yes. And that was the dynamic. She was Boss, I was, I was sister and little sister. And that was the diet. So it worked. And, and, you know, then thinking about go that we're gonna be partners, and we're gonna go into the business together, we, we, we were very aware of what possibly could be either catastrophic, are really amazing. So we made commitments to each other at the very beginning, we had exit plans laid out, we, we said, before we even exit, these are the kind of steps we're going to go through to mitigate and try and build on the relationship. And, you know, one of them was marriage counseling. I like to call it that. Because it is like a marriage. And we committed to that plan. And I think that's why we're so successful as partners now.
JP Gaston:Do you feel like there's a lot of businesses and Nicole, you might have experienced this in your career as a chef, do you feel like there's a lot of businesses who, especially in the restaurant industry, who don't take the time to do that sort of thing and come out with? They've just got an idea, I've got a great dish. I know how to make pasta and meatballs, and I'm gonna open a restaurant
Unknown:110% Yeah, absolutely. majority of them don't have a plan. And the biggest part of that is understanding your vision, your end goal, your mission statement, your core values. But when you write a business plan, like from what we experienced from our business plan, which I hated doing, by the way, it was like dragging up is like dragging a horse to water. Yeah. And it was like, great, I'm totally an advocate for it. It gives you clear direction, it gives you the pitfalls, it shows you your strengths or weaknesses, it tells you what your plan is. And if it's even realistic. And that's another thing it's write that business plan. Realistically, you have to have a low medium high projection, like you have to see it for what it is on paper. And anyways, you shouldn't be that organized. It's daunting, because most chefs are not administrators in any way, shape, or fashion. And they just like, Oh, that's so annoying to have to do that. And I think that's where Nicole and I support each other, we have very different approaches and skill sets. And they meld really well, like the cold. She got amazing ideas. And then she's good at implementing them. And then I'm good at porting and executing that and maintaining it and streamlining it. And the plan really helped to us guide us not for someone else with the bank necessarily like the way I'm rewriting it all the time. To be honest, yeah, we refer back to it. And that's the one thing about chefs that's really interesting in restaurants is the margins are so already, why would you not have a plan, and you have to let go of ego. You need to just let it be. And go, this is the reality of business, not just, I'm a great cook, and I make awesome meatballs. What does that mean? I'll translate when you travel? In what container like that's the thing about takeout, right? We did all our research, how is this going to travel in a box? What's this gonna look like? Well, it's sweat. Like we did time trials. And like, it was just very extensive, and it benefited us, especially during COVID that we already had that worked out as restaurants are trying to do that now. And it's like their foods not translating the same way when it gets to door.
JP Gaston:Yeah, I've certainly noticed a lot of I will call it innovation in the food delivery realm over the last nine months. Do you feel like there's a lot of innovation happening for you guys in particular? Yeah, 100%.
Unknown:I mean, start a COVID we'd always had an online ordering system. We were kind of happy with it, but support. It just wasn't what we wanted. But you know, with the change of COVID it really pushed us to kind of make that switch and transition a lot faster to a newer system and to a system that melded better and, and it does push your boundaries of questioning, streamline this and you got to kind of speed this up and how do we how do we improve this and it really does challenge those because you're not having the same kind of face to Face interactions and those opportunities that you would necessarily have when a customer is right in front of you to kind of talk about your product or the the customer service agents don't have that opportunity to do that, like our crew. So now we're relying on what people are seeing in front of them on a device to sell our product and no upselling the honor to like, kind of create that same similar experience. And so your online platform then becomes your, your crew, and you want that, that experience to be representative of your business and what your values are the experience you want your customers to have. And that's the biggest shift during COVID for us, I think is operationally because we are, you know, like Nicole said in our plan, and we had laid out the that's the great thing about a plan is you write something down and then you're like, wait, what about that? We didn't think about that. And as you're writing your plan, these big questions come up, you're like, Oh, yeah, we got to fill in this blank. Okay, we're gonna do some research on that. And we got to fill in this blank. So, you know, having these things that you need to complete in order to build your plan really pushes your boundaries of doing the research to evaluate how you're going to approach that.
Seth Anderson:Did you have global pandemic, on your plan or?
Unknown:Actually, yes, you did Francine. To degree because Francine always believe there's gonna be apocalyptic something. He was always like, Nicole, if I had to store three dry things in my cellar, what would they be if an apocalyptic episode happened? And then I was like, salt, rice and like, flowers, flowers. Mine with the seeds. Oh, that's a good one. grow them. But even when the flood happened, she's like I told you. He's like, get in your car and drive here. Now. I was like, oh my god. Are you kidding me? So they kind of did predict it.
Seth Anderson:Do you have like an off the grid cabin note in the kidneys with a bunch of chickens to run to if need be here.
Unknown:I kind of gave that a lot. But I'm working back towards it. I I mean, I'm trying to go backwards. back. I was like living my retired life came out of the I basically came out of the woods to open up the business. Now. I just wanna go back to the woods. I've been like, Yeah, because I mean, one of my things when I moved out there was because I'm born and raised in the city. I mean, I did my education in Toronto. And so I always had this like inclination to be outdoors, like I loved the outdoors, fishing, hunting was always part of my life. And yeah, so I one day, I decided to give up everything and move out there and give it a try. And I started learning how to live off the land and hunting and, and raising animals and butchering and everything I could. That's amazing. I love that I
Seth Anderson:have said to my my family several times that I wanted to go live off the land, and they just laugh at me.
Unknown:A little bit. Well, I've done that the gene COVID. I started my own little garden. Yeah. And lived off my vegetables all summer. Yeah. Awesome. That's awesome. What COVID fosse forced me
Seth Anderson:in that vein, and sort of back to what we were talking about. Just a lot of the headwinds that already existed in the restaurant industry, like you were talking about razor thin margins, customers having so much choice, you know, retaining staff, even in normal times. What do you think the restaurant industry sort of evolves into on the other side of this? What do you guys, what's your sense? So interesting? I love this question. Yeah, this
Unknown:is a good one. I think that it's really making businesses think about what they're delivering and how they're delivering it. Because I mean, it's really questioning a lot of core values of a business, right? We've been fortunate in that when we decided to open up what we did, we were had in mind that the direction of the industry was going towards people having different values and the food they ate, and wanting that in an accessible to also suit their busy lifestyles. The big thing in the state, as Nicole said, they're very much more advanced, given to population density as well, right. But I think the direction is going to continue to be that that it's going to continue to be people being conscientious and caring more about what they're putting in their in their diets, still wanting access. And maybe the sit down thing is going to become more of a special occasion now that people have gotten accustomed to this takeout world. Yeah, I agree with you, Francine, completely. And also, you know, from my point of view to being in the industry from the late 90s to current and this is how we came to this conclusion that quote unquote, would be the right model is that the way we eat culturally and understanding the psychology of a customer is very important because when I started in the late 90s, it was like a special occasion anniversary. You cooked at home, you're around a table. There weren't iPads, phones were like flip phones, and there's pagers, so I think but, uh, back then people ate around a dinner table and share it and then when they went out to a restaurant, it was like, this is an anniversary dinner or whatever. So what came about from our research, I already already called The trend because I've seen it, it went into more gourmet comfort food because people don't know how to cook. Like they just don't do that anymore. They don't sit at home and spend the time. Maybe now now that COVID happened. But a lot of people on the majority are in a rush. They're hurrying technology is a distraction. Sitting around table talking about your day wasn't a thing anymore, we got disconnected. And the need to eat was a necessity rather than a special occasion. That's why there's gourmet pizza or made burgers like it's on a total like upswing, and home meal replacement. You know, like people don't even know how to chop onions that buy them chocolate whole foods like so it's kind of this weird juxtaposition culturally, if you understand the psychology of, I think a customer and this is where my role comes down learning about marketing, right? So what does that look like?
Seth Anderson:I love that point. If I think of COVID a lot of the people that I know they they reverted to a lot of skip the dishes, a lot of ordering out, you know, especially in that first lockdown, we kind of went the other way we own we ordered pizza one time in two months and everything else we just we started cooking and found out that we really liked it. Do you guys have thoughts on how you expand your business to engage those customers who maybe would have went to your store and pre COVID times but now they're going to be at home? Like how do you tap into that? Oh, well,
Unknown:we've already talked about this, we were just talking about it in our weekly meetings, we're trying to pivot some of our food into like, for instance, Nicole and I were talking about our roast chickens, because they're great. You buy one in the last year, you could make like three different meals out of them, you could use them for so many different things. So you know, for the ones that want to take the shortcut, but still want the home quality food, or like the home cooked quality food where there's just to the same aspect. I think that approach is one little aspect, of course, are we're in the business of feeding people that don't want to cook. But of course, there's gonna always be the sum. And the thing is to like, think about this because this is how we function ourselves how we eat. I'm not in Calgary, I always want a little clicker. Or I want to roast chicken and the roast chicken. For me, I'm a single I eat on my own dinner for one, I could eat that bird for like seven days. Because when I love chicken, but I'll eat the breast meat in a salad that I can slice it up and like use it in a sandwich. Or like I'll eat the roast chicken legs when I got them. Then I buy like roast the bones. And I make brown chicken stock. So I make soup with the leftover bits, it can turn into something. So we're gonna start making recipe cards
Seth Anderson:since you guys are Chicken ologists. I think that that's a word now. Why are chicken wings in the us so much bigger than they are in Canada? Because I went to like, they're like three, four times the size. I was like, What the hell is this? When I went down there, right?
Unknown:Is that what it is? It's just steroids. Here's some fun facts about chickens. In North America and Canada, is Canadian chicken laws are very rigid. Actually, the lot of their food meat producing laws are very different. So when everybody's watching these documentaries about the horror stories of where animals are raised, a lot of those actually originate from the States, the Canadian poultry associations, they won no hormones are allowed in Canada, in any chicken ever. So when they advertise hormone free, it's actually well known as part of a French but no Sherlock, every chicken in Canada is hormone free. So we chose not to advertise that because I have this thing where I'm where Nicole and I were like, well, we don't want to be those people, even if we were to serve, because right now we're also serving 100%, antibiotic free, certified humane and Hillel chicken. And there's lots of myths that go around all of that antibiotic free chicken in Canada is 100%. While we've chosen that, but even when we if we hadn't the types of antibiotics that can be administered are restricted in Canada, and that most producers, because then abaqus are expensive, will only choose to administer them if needed. Because why would they just give it away, cutting into their margins. So that's another misconception that I find is often in Canada, but it's so different and they don't let them like our chickens are certified humane, which means that they need X amount of space, they get, you know, twice a percent more space than a regular chicken. They have like little chicken playgrounds like swings and hay bales and stuff to perch on to get proper activity. It was really cute actually, when we went to go see the farms. And because they they're really well taken care of. And in the state. They don't do that. They just cram them in and pump them out. And they pump them out in like three weeks. And a chicken really should be like, you know, four to six, and a tub pumping them out in tu tu tu tu tu
JP Gaston:Seth to your point. I know the ones in the states are huge Japan, they are tiny, have a picture of me biting into a chicken wing and it's like the tiniest thing you've ever I was so so happy to find a place when I was in Japan that actually serve chicken wings and beer and I kind of could communicate in that area. So I sat down I was excited for them to come to my table and they got there and I just went What is this? What is happened to my chicken
Unknown:are so different With a Cornish game hen and chicken wings, and it's due to land availability, well they they probably have different breeds of chickens out there that don't grow like i was growing meat bird and the meat bird that I grew. I like the thigh me like I like dark meat. So my chickens because I got the breed that was crossed with a bunch of different heritage breeds had like tiny little breasts and like big huge size. That's because I like the dark meat. But the chick conventional chickens we get you know what most chickens that are bred that we eat in the conventional market. They're all the same. It's all the same chicken it's all breast heavy and you know decent size size but because they make more money off their breast one.
Seth Anderson:One thing I've noticed just again, because we mostly eat chicken, when you go buy chicken breast, some brands I've found are really watery, and then when you cook it like the chicken doesn't taste as good. How can you like is there? Do they pump it full of water? It sounds like a real thing. How do you know when that's the case? Because like
Unknown:air to air chilled? Yeah, look for an air chilled chickens because like the process of of eviscerating a chicken. That's a polite word for taking care of. Yeah. The process of industry chicken is after you invest rates after they die. You plug them and then you gotta you gotta chill them off really quickly, right? Traditionally on a farm, they like go close and cold running water so that it shows them off really fast because anything in water will chill quicker, like hetta right birds Yeah, like head right bird tend to be waterbath chilled. Because to air chill that rapidly, they have to have a very high circulating fan and the chickens have to hang. So major production facilities are well most production facilities that are quite large will have air chillers. And the chicken Pang and the girl who automated through and they get chilled as they're getting pushed through the system. Whereas there's some chickens will get bath chilled or water chilled. And that sometimes will cause the breasts to get watery and dry out since getting the whole education here
Seth Anderson:loving this. I want to make an infographic just on the chicken knowledge. Episode honestly.
Unknown:Oh, I've got lost like I I first spent six years being a weird chicken fanatic. My boyfriend at the time thought I was losing my mind because all they ever thought about was hatching raising and fluttering together.
JP Gaston:And that was before the business. Yeah, that was before.
Seth Anderson:We dabbled in chickens on our hobby farm. But I do remember quite clearly my dad came home one day with a bunch of baby chicks. And we had a cow. And he just left he said they were gonna be free range chickens and just kind of let them out. And we went out in the morning and the cow laid on the mall and there was just like the circle of dead. Oh my god, how traumatizing it's memorable for sure. So I don't think you have any business and free range chicken farming. So
JP Gaston:I learned something new every single time we record. I don't know. But I learned something new every time. We were talking a little bit earlier about some of the changes on the backside of COVID. I did have one other question about that, which is you just open just is a relative term. But you recently opened the location in the co op with everybody kind of moving into these home office settings. You know, there's some suspicion that that will continue post COVID because businesses realize how much it costs to operate a brick and mortar of their own downtown. How do you think that's going to influence your decisions on you know, where you open up more locations? Or you know, where anyone in the food industry opens up locations? Do you think there'll be a shift into the suburbs? Or? Or what do you think that that that looks like?
Unknown:Actually, that's a good question, Nicole and I were talking about where our growth plan and what our next locations is. And one of the locations that we always wanted to go into was going down south, south of the city and then south east, kind of down close to 1/30. area. I actually now it even becomes more relevant, in my opinion, because there's a lot more people that are now no longer commuting to the downtown core. Yeah, I mean, COVID taught us a lot. It's been like good in some ways and bad and others like everything in life, we were on a path to like opening possibly in Vancouver back on hold. And that's okay. We just refocus our energies on making the operations. Well, Francine is, and like we talked about all the time, but how we make them smoother, you know, we got an app now, which is awesome. It's super efficient. We've learned how to navigate through doordash and all the elements and logistics of that. That's another whole other ballpark because you're dealing with like third party drivers, you know, comes falls down on you, regardless of what all the rebates they can give you a refund for their screw ups. Right. So how does that look like we've already looked into our own delivery service. So Calvary has been so supportive and 1/30 is definitely the right move. But it was in the business model two, there has been a lot of discussions about different concepts because once you look at the cost of starting one of these and then our end goal is to franchise that out. We're like what does this look like for Somebody who wants to invest in something like this because it's our retirement plan, right? So there has to be some sort of strategy on what that looks like if there's multiple locations, consistency, quality assurance, and all those things to maintain the brand in a proper way. And so we actually, were thinking about a scaled down version of clucking cleaver, where it could fit into a mini one, like clock express a little mini Whoa. Yeah, well, yeah, we were gonna call it quick clock, but we'll see how that translates. I love it. I love that. Um, yeah. But that's Yeah, right. So whatever. It's kind of like more a model that you'd put in an airport or Food Fair, maybe not foodhall, because they're expensive rents there. But, you know, in a smaller space, a more manageable space, we've been just rewriting systems, basically, because we have manuals for everything. So we're just kind of trying to navigate through that right now. See, if it works, you know, we have a test model maybe coming up. And of course, with the business, you're always trying to continually like streamline things to right. And with the whole new world of technology and automation and everything, there's just so much access, and it's just about getting over that curve, that you have to kind of make it over before you can get to the other side. Because they mean, they're operating too. That's one thing, you start adding three, four, then you're going into a different dynamic of business. So we've never done it. Yeah. And we don't have any investors. Like, this is all us. So it's awesome. Yeah, for now, like, it's the US in the bank, right? So we have to learn about legal and what that looks like, if we were to take on people, that's a whole other thing, that it's a lot to learn. Yeah. And then when we start bringing in partners, you gotta think about, like, if we're, if we're going to keep growing, then we're gonna, you know, essentially, whether we franchise or we keep them corporate, you got to bring in, we're gonna have to bring in more people. We're gonna bring in more partners, potentially. And then that's kind of like, well, what's been that changing the whole dynamic again, right? So interesting things to pick quandre. tricky. Yeah,
Seth Anderson:it's exciting. That sounds fun, though. That's growing your dream, realizing your vision like that's, that's awesome. Customer choice like, other than clever puns, which like Mother clucker sandwich, like, I want to go have that now. But like, how do you differentiate yourselves from you know, the million other chicken sandwiches that you can get? What's the secret sauce?
Unknown:We get this question all the time. Because you often get compared to, quote unquote, fast food joints. It definitely was an interesting thing was what the funny thing that Nicole and I, when we first opened it realized was Oh, people are going to try and compare us to that, even though we're serving like a hat made from scratch handmade products, where we, we make all the sauces in house, we don't open, reheat and serve. We make everything from scratch, and all natural. And so there's no funny words and anything like everything, it's all the ingredients are whole. And, and we so we open up this little location, the brick and mortar bell on location, people walk in, and they see a little takeout menu on the counter, and they think, oh, fast food. And that's the first place people brains go to. And then it's like, well, then how do you make that conversion? And I think that's where that question that you asked about, like, how do we differentiate ourselves. And that's that primarily is, it's that we are committed to continuing to produce handmade from scratch product, we're just trying to deliver it a little quicker than a restaurant wood. It's not fast food. It's good food fast.
JP Gaston:In a couple of the interviews, I've heard the the better food fast. Yeah,
Unknown:better food fast. It's kind of it's kind of what we say and what we teach our staff like, because often it's it's interesting to watch yourself, you know, a business that you put so much love into, and that you're like, Oh, well get compared to McDonald's. Like, like, have a chicken. I think about it, even the word fast is the wrong word, we should find another word because fast is already denoting that you're going to get it right away. And I think that people don't realize like we've really researched like when a delivery guy comes, we don't drop the fries till he arrives. So that's a four to five minute turnaround. And it's like he's waiting, trying to get in all his deliveries. And it's like, No, we can't send out fries that have been under a heat lamp on a delivery. It's a thing that people don't realize, we think about all those things. And in a restaurant, you wouldn't even you get the same quality in the restaurant, if it's on a nice plate. But you would wait 30 minutes, people come to curbside and they're like, they wait seven minutes. And they're it's a problem. You know, the thing about us too, coming to terms with getting that kind of feedback from clients going they're really expensive. We take those things. Seriously. At the beginning, we were like, Oh my god, you know, and what people don't realize is we just took on a better chicken product that we're paying more for, but we reduced pricing, we reduced pricing during COVID. And that was because we had the time and space to look at other costs that were variable to bring down points. So we brought down packaging, we looked at all our expenses like we, we kind of trim back on things that weren't as important. We don't do the fancy packaging, it looks, we were very smart about our packaging, we don't have it printed. There's no turnaround time, we use masking tape that's printed with our logo. It's essentially when you think about a business, like when you walk into a restaurant, and you're going to sit down, and you've noticed how much money they spent on the silverware, plates, the cutlery, all that stuff. It translates to what you're paying on the ticket price, right? When we reevaluate our business after and seeing the trends. We're like, well, where can we trim the fat, and Nicole and I dug really hard and had some really long negotiations with our suppliers to try to bring down our cost. And then instead of us just keeping that we decided to pass that on to the consumer in a full disclosure way. Like we lowered our prices in the middle of COVID. There's not a lot of places lowering their prices, but because we were committed to trying to find a way we're listening to our customer base. Oh, that's
Seth Anderson:amazing. I it's funny, you talk about silverware. Like we have nice silverware in our house, and my daughter refuses to use any silverware that's not like a plastic dollar store cheap like picnic, spoon or fork like she will not use real silverware. It's kind of funny, but I'm curious on technology, and the role it plays in sort of your your cost to serve? And is there opportunity to further use technology in your space? or What does that sort of look like? Yeah,
Unknown:that always comes down to box. Because if we had if we had 1010 locations we could take on full and this is the goal. We could take on full training videos like we have a manual, but we could take on full like there's no confusion when you see a video and you test them right so we could take on way more technology determine costs, Francine is kind of bootstrapped. Like she's done a ton of like research to make it work, we are perfect our perfect perfect system. Because I'm you know, we're very much about using technology as a advantageous tool, right to kind of streamline things to simplify, like our perfect system, as a small business is just way out of reach. Cost wise, like it's hundreds of 1000s of dollars. 200,000 is a huge investment. But so what I've done, we've kind of like bootstrapped little parts of things together to make the ideal system. So I've taken the perfect ideal and tried to kind of just mash it all together, utilize as much as we can. And of course, there's still more like Nicole said, you know, interactive learning online, great way to train yourself, especially in a model, like a growth model, a scaled model, like we're trying to achieve, you sell it to somebody, they're like, Oh, I can do this, this is easy, right? Like, here's the contract, here's what we do. And this is how you do it, it's easy to turn over to a franchise, because that's the biggest, I think that's one of the biggest downfalls when people franchise like coming out of a small business. And coming into a larger model is they one, they do it too quick. And then they don't take control of the brand. And they dilute it. Because they partner with the wrong franchisees or they don't have their systems and their they don't have like everything locked down and they don't have a way of nondairy checking and auditing it. All the hard work that you put in at the beginning just gives them so much more to start with.
JP Gaston:That's an interesting transition, both for you moving into kind of letting go of things, but at the same time having to have this bucket of information built up and ready to just hand to someone to run with how do you get to that kind of level of trust in your business model? Because I think everyone believes their business is great. But when they get to that point, it's like I'm not sure if it's quite ready yet.
Unknown:I guess you know, baby steps. Maybe not just jumping straight on, you know, like the goal. I talked about this, like how do we get maybe partners involved and still have some sort of corporate element to it, as opposed to just going straight to franchise, I mean, we're going to obviously utilize our resources, like talking to our mentors, and that's a big part of what Nicole and I do is, is we reach out and get help like, because I mean, this is all new to us, right? We've never done this before. You know, we're kind of learning as we go as well. So relying on good mentorship, advice from other people getting educated it a little bit of trial and error. I'd say like I've always believed in you ask people that are smarter than you also have no fear, because I've been successful independently because I fear less. I don't mind making mistakes. I think it's part of the deal. I think you have to learn from them being reflective. And being aware of that is really important, and that sometimes can get cloudy. When you're a chef in a kitchen, your ego will get in the way. And I've had to learn that the hard way. I mean, I was not the best boss at all times either in my catering company, but I learned and I've improved And that's the point, you have to have no fear and make mistakes and forgive yourself and forgive others and like, move on and improve. I mean, that's just kind of like life really 100%. And
Seth Anderson:with where you're going with the business and everything, Nicole, do you still plan to pursue, I imagine you're at a place we can kind of pick and choose the, you know, the TV gigs, and that kind of thing that you take on? Are you going to still pursue that? Are you going all in on Clark and cleaver? Or you'll find a balance? Or what do you think? No, it's
Unknown:interesting, because like, people see me on TV, right? And I am, you know, pretty much what you see on TV is what you get, like, that's who I am. I don't really pretend to be anything else than that. But it also is edited. So it's not like I'm happy all the time, and positive and like, a positive person, for sure. I love to have fun. But I have my days, and I don't get a lot of work. Like people think that I get a lot of work, they don't have an agent running on the ground, like, sending a real is about me. I think the TV part of my life is really interesting. I've never kind of seeked it, it's just come. And I think that's kind of like karmic, but also it's how you show up in the world. And if you translate well, on TV, people will be drawn to that, right? So I think TD for me was like, do it Have fun, and let it be, don't chase it. If you're always chasing it, it's never gonna happen. He kind of just have to trust this universe. Maybe I'm, I'm a little bit spiritual, not little, I am spiritual. I feel like things happen for a reason. And it just happened for me. And I actually really, I've always put the energy towards it to just have fun. And I think that's kind of like the most important thing. Like, it's not always gonna be fun, it's grueling hours. But I also thrive under that stress. And I can work very long hours. So TV is very complicated that way, like you need to be able to work 16 hours and 30 days in a row, like you can't,
JP Gaston:there's no whining and bitching, you just do it. It seems like it's very different from like, the long game of opening and running a business that compared to the, you know, 30 minutes, you have to come up with an appetizer that involves these four ingredients that is just thrown in front of you in the moment. But yeah, do you find that? Do you find that it's that different? Or do you find a lot of similarities in the way that
Unknown:it's different? It's definitely like, it's definitely on the fly. And you have to be on all the time and like, be willing to talk, I think business is a lot different. And I've learned this, I've actually changed because of TV, I tend to take more of a pause and think about things, because I have the room to do that. And I think that's very important. That's where they're very dissimilar. And they're not similar. They're just not the same thing at all, really, but where they're similar is stress. And so I thrive under stress. Like I'm a very solutions based person. I know I problem solve very quickly. And so I think for business that can be very good. It can be impulsive, but I'm also okay with making mistakes. That's where I come in. teens, my Buddha, she like comes in and, and she'll be like, she's these things and catches things and fixes things like quicker than most people will catch. And then I have to take that and translate it so that it'll apply longer term. I become the translator for you know, the changes and vice versa. Like there's times where I'm like wanting to change this and this and this. And Nicole and I talk, we have our weekly meetings, and then the Korean talk about it. And she goes, Well, what about this? And what about that? And oh, yeah, okay. And so that's why, you know, from just outside looking in, I'd say that they are very different in that matters that, you know, when you're on TV, you kind of got to do things on the fly, because you've got that 30 seconds to get it done. But in this business, and what we're trying to build as a model is long term. So you got to think about the implications of that on the long run. Yeah, and to be honest, the TV part, it's just been gravy. To be honest, it's been great. And I've never my first focus is my long term and clucking cleaners my long term. So that's my priority. That's great. It
Seth Anderson:really like I loved what you were saying about passion and having fun, and just that whole approach and sort of on the TV side. And I think that's pretty much how JP and I've kind of approached The Biz Dojo, like we had no expectations of this, we honestly just wanted to have some fun and it's a passion of ours and now all of a sudden, where we're getting very cool guests, teaching us all about chicken ology and many other things. So really appreciate that approach. I guess that's, that's very cool.
Unknown:Yeah, you know, when, when it becomes passion, you put your best effort forward, firstly, and secondly, then it doesn't feel like work.
Seth Anderson:Well, this is uh, this has been amazing. Where? Where can people find you? I know you guys got a few different social accounts, your website? What? What's the best place for people to get a mother clucker sandwich and follow you guys? Well, um, oh, did you just say Well, um, at the same time. There was some Jing Jinx action happening there.
Unknown:Oh, no, we do it all the time. We do it all the time. And we've been each other's sentences. It's kind of embarrassing. But no, it's not embarrassing. It's awesome. Getting me means we're on the same wavelength. collagen cleaver, download the app, if you're going to order online for sure, it's so easy. And once you're signed up, www clock and cleaver.com is where to find any info or download the app or order Instagrams pretty active on the one who does all social media. And that's that plugin believer and we were starting to integrate more specials and like surprise pop up specials and like contests and stuff. So stay tuned,
JP Gaston:I think that you have a an appearance on a TV show coming up that we might want to to plug on here as well. So maybe you can just talk a little bit about that. So
Unknown:we're gonna be featured on the big food bucket list on Food Network Canada. Well, it's actually not just Food Network Canada, it's just Food Network. And our episode will be on February 6. I think it's at 8pm 8pm I was gonna say set your PVR
JP Gaston:Tucci for sure is somebody that that I love everything that I've watched him do us I'm I'm positive that it's gonna be an amazing episode. Yeah,
Unknown:he's he's awesome. That was an awesome show. JOHN can tg is like so fun. Anything else you
Seth Anderson:guys wanted to touch on before
Unknown:we really like thank you so much for the opportunity to talk about this. It's really good for us to kind of rehash our journey and just share it with others that are inspired to go do something. It only takes one great idea is what I say and and a good plan. One good idea and a good plan.
JP Gaston:Well, thanks so much. Well, thank you so much for having us. It's been it's a lot of fun to have these conversations. So we really appreciate the opportunity. Great to meet you guys.
Seth Anderson:Thank you guys. Thanks.
Voiceover:Thanks to Francine and Nicole Gomez for joining us today from cluck and cleaver. Don't forget your promo code for free chocolate chip cookies with any purchase expires at the end of February. Now the podium brought to you by beyond a beaten path visit beyond the beaten path.ca.
Seth Anderson:That was a an amazing episode of The Biz Dojo we had Francine and Nicole on and we're going to pivot now into this week's edition of the podium. And JP very exciting. We're going to talk about our top three favorite comfort meals. Now foods that bring warmth to our heart, if you will,
JP Gaston:maybe and maybe not to anyone else's.
Seth Anderson:Maybe not maybe not mine. Yeah, yeah. Joining us this week, friend of the show, good friend of mine, good friend of yours, Jordan West. Jordan, thank you for joining us.
JP Gaston:It's an absolute pleasure to be here, Jeff. Thanks for inviting me. Awesome. Awesome,
Seth Anderson:perfect, man. And just to you know, give some credence to your list. Jordan, you're something of a something of a chef yourself. Are you not I actually am
Unknown:I am a I am a trained chef. I went to chef school. I grew up in a household with a mother who is an incredible cook. And you'll see that her influences in life is a definitely in my top three most tasty dishes. So definitely Awesome.
Seth Anderson:Awesome. Looking forward to it. But we will kick off Mr. guest on what is your top three comfort foods.
JP Gaston:I'm glad you're looking forward to Jordans because we're going to start off with one that everyone's gonna cringe yet. So when I was when I was little, my parents had three kids, we were running all over the place all the time. So we had some quick meals and kind of two of mine are quick meals. But the the one quick meal that is different than it's something that nobody else has, is Prem burgers. So you've probably heard of spam. Prem is the Canadian version of spam. It's Spam from Canada. And she would cut slices off like thin slices and she would put it on top of a hamburger bun like shave it or looby be like a big hunk. I'd say. I'd say more funky than shave. Shaving shaving it sounds more exotic to me. I don't know. Yeah, yeah. No, she didn't have like one of those delicatessen things where she's, you know, pushing it back and forth. And it's shaving off. No, it was, you know, it's a solid eighth of an inch or so. And she would put that on top of the hamburger bun. And then on top of that, she would put some tomatoes. And on the other side of the hamburger bun, she would put some cheese and she would put it in the oven and let the cheese melt and get all toasty and delicious. And then you just smash it together and that's your that's your dinner because we got to get out the door and get your sister to her practice and your brother to his and would there be an acute trauma with this or that that's that was that was a I was in a Yeah. Wow. She gets to Wow, just
Seth Anderson:listen, I've had you know we had some of our delicacies in my house that I probably won't get into on this pod but
JP Gaston:they didn't make your top three but they made a they made a three list somewhere.
Seth Anderson:Well, there's a there's a There's a list just waiting, just waiting. But spam sandwich basically that's here.
JP Gaston:Yes, that doesn't sound quite as good as Prem burger, especially since people know what Spam is known as parameters. But I encourage people to try it once. Okay. All right. My number two is chicken wings, which sounds normal, but very specifically, there was a place that was, I don't know, 50 steps from the house that I lived in growing up the little pizza place called the pizza company back in St. catharines. They had chicken wings, but they did them in like a sample sauce. They didn't do your typical your typical hot sauce, suicide sauce, they did them in a in a nice sample sauce. So what now I have not been able to find what is a sample sauce. It's just a It's a type of chili and I have not been able to find them until somewhat recently. last couple of years, I've been heading out to you to Banff and staying at the rim rock fancy and they have them but they changed them. So they used to be really, really good because they used to actually like cook them in the sauce. But now they just have chicken wings with a sample side that you can dip them in and it's not the same, but it's the closest thing that I've ever had to them. They are so good. You know, you can buy sample sauce. I yes. So I've tried to make them myself. Totally unsuccessful. I don't know what they did. I mean, I can make some pretty good wings. And I can make some, you know, deployment some sample sauce, but I can't seem to get the ratio down or something. My number one is another thing that's a little bit of a family tradition. It's camp stew. So you take some hamburger, throw it in a pan, cook it off, throw in some frozen vegetables, mixed vegetables. Throw in a can of vegetable soup, the ones with the little alphabet letters in it. And then a squirt. I think it's somewhere between a half and three quarters of a cup of ketchup. Just mix it around and cook it down and you throw that on top of mashed potatoes. And it is just it is delightful. Super fast to to make and I mean it's probably not the healthiest thing on the planet. But at least you're getting some vegetables with with the frozen mix in there.
Jordon West:It feels to me JP like it needs a crunchy element. Like it should be something like you know deep fried onions are on there.
JP Gaston:That sounds like a chef trying to improve something my mom made
Seth Anderson:a delightful little life hack for those of us who have kids, I guess, Jordan Well, you may still have them. I didn't have any saltine crackers for my mushroom soup the other day so I put in goldfish like the little goldfish crackers. Delightful. absolutely delightful.
JP Gaston:I can't You can't go wrong with a goldfish. Yeah, absolutely. Yeah. transported right back to residents. I don't have this
Seth Anderson:I'm just gonna smash this Hey, man, I was making I offer I told the kids I was making pancakes the other day and I had none of the I couldn't find the pancake mix and turns out like everything in the cupboard you can make it and that was a good learning
JP Gaston:just other ingredients. Put together. Flour a couple
Seth Anderson:basically flour.
JP Gaston:like five times too much and it's basically half. All right, Jordan, what? What do you got for your top three.
Unknown:So I've given us a lot of fun. And I was telling you guys before we started here around St. boardings, you know he's easy. I'm not into famous people, but he's the only famous person that when he died I actually cried right because I love them. But he was easy to do this game with chefs to say, you know, if you were going to be put to death tomorrow, what would be your last meal and like nine to 10 nine of the 10 chefs would say something their mom and their mum made them. So for me my number one hands down is my mom's Apple pancakes. And very much what it basically is is Yorkshire pudding with apples on the top cinnamon brown sugar and butter. And then you put it in the oven and make Yorkshire pudding like you normally would. And when you pull it out with a piece with some bacon or sausages on the side. Nice Mimosa. When I was a kid I would drink my emotions all the time. Just freaking tastic I'm just made this up after
Seth Anderson:just a few mimosas. Yeah, it was great. It's great. So
JP Gaston:Jordan get the Yorkshire
Unknown:exactly exactly. But she didn't have a mix Seth you know she actually made your ship put in with like you know milk and eggs and you know very much the same stuff that they make pancakes. But anyways, I digress. When the second one is stay with me for this because this is a really complicated name called chicken and rice. So really what it is is first you got you to cook chicken. Yeah, yeah. First you take the chicken and you put it in some broth right. And you just basically you cook this chicken in the broth. And then you add white wine and and and some flour and some heavy cream. And and you shred the chicken all apart and with some almond slices on it in it. And it's this beautiful and you pour pour it over rice and when I was a kid it was like one of those you know how when you're a kid The most important meal of the day for me was always you know, dinner you walk in the house and my mom was a stay at home mom. And I would say to Mom, you know what's for dinner tonight? And she go, I you know, chicken with rice? Well, that was when, you know, I'd be like, yeah, chicken with rice. Like, it'd be like, it's like, it's like the meal, right? And so chicken with rice was was the best. And then last one, not really a comfort kind of food. But for me. My mum and dad didn't have a ton of money, right? So my mum would make up me these like dinners like she pretend that we read a restaurant. So like my moment, I was really young, she'd actually would put on, you know, like, waitress outfit, and she had no name tags and Carol on it. You know, and she's earlier. Welcome to the restaurant. And that was brand new. We're having something fancy, right. So fancy dinner was oil for oil fondue. So they're like cheese fondue. You guys are having real fondue before?
Seth Anderson:I actually believe I'm a fondue virgin? I'd like I don't know. What, what you've not had an fondue? I don't think so. Oh, I am. Oh, I
JP Gaston:know what I'm getting you for Christmas. I mean, you gotta wait a few months but
Unknown:no, so there's cheese fondue, regular bread and cheese. But oil fondue is like a big pot of steaming oil. And then you have a whole bunch of different sauces that you have. And then you have your different things that you put on your fondue for it to cook in the oil. Right.
JP Gaston:There's a place in Banff. That's particularly I can't I can't think of the name of it right now. But it's good. You go out for fondue. Yeah, there's a there's a fondue place in Banff. Like it's very specifically just fondue. That's kind of they're really Oh yeah. And it is delightful.
Unknown:What kinds of things do they have the fondue because I have like a very strict list of fondue items that you have you have you have your phone do's in your phone. Don't ever touch the hot fork. That's definitely fine. Don't so so so so you guys came over to have to sit down with you and to give you the fun news and fun don'ts JP That's awesome. Right. Never put the hot fork out of them out of the oil into your mouth. But if you anyways if you're going to have the fondue, you have to have ravioli, these froggies potatoes. breaded broccoli is fantastic. parboil your produce, and then you just put it on your fork, put it in there until they're crispy and golden. I particularly recommend the cheese and potato stuff ones. Don't make them myself. I buy them from all peachy or they're called. And they're just fantastic. Little bit of curry sauce. Amen. overdue Seth. I've done my list, buddy. It's over to you.
Seth Anderson:My runner. I'm gonna call it my runner up my runner up for my top three.
JP Gaston:So fourth place. Fourth place
Seth Anderson:I was thinking of like over COVID the favorite thing that we've like added to our menu, I guess you would say like our regular scheduled programming here like your 15 dish rotation or whatever. Yeah. Is it shrimp tacos? Yeah, so we started buying like the Costco size shrimp. Like I'll buy like two of them when I go there. And that's like 20 meals with how we've been eating so big suckers. And this fry that shrimp up. We've done a different styles, but I think the best ones the one where you put the coleslaw and they're a little bit of sweet, sweet Thai chili flavor to picket lines. Do not do pickled onions saw an ad that I'm gonna write that down. All right, and then Kaitlyn does a phenomenal job with it. So the kudos to her cuz she she's the one who puts it all to see them. She makes it Yeah, I come up with the ideas. She makes it real and then I put it in my belly. Awesome. Can't go wrong with tacos, man. Number three.
JP Gaston:Now into the actual list.
Seth Anderson:Alright, this is another thing that generated out of COVID but breakfast with grandma. So every Saturday for the most part, except for the last little bit here. I've been doing breakfast with grandma we kind of go back and forth I make she makes but in particular, she has a affinity for Teresa sausage. And so I have had all the versions of scherzo sausage in the last you know year and I don't know it just makes me think of my grandma's she's done it. I don't think she's done a quiche but she's either she's just fried it on the side she's had it in mashes and smashes and eggs and all these things and and i don't know I've really grown to like treats a sausage and having breakfast with Graham every Saturday. So that's my number three.
Unknown:You're lucky man. I give anything to have breakfast with my grandma again. That'd be that's awesome, man.
Seth Anderson:Number two on my list is my mom's lasagna. So not like m&ms, mom's spaghetti but mom's lasagna. And I don't eat beef anymore. So I don't know how we're going to do that. But the best part about it is it's usually very cheesy. You know that like crusty part of the cheese on like the side To the casserole dish and you get like that corner piece. Oh, yeah,
Unknown:that's the corner piece is the best john lasagna. Put me down for the corner piece. That's where all the goodness collects, you know what I mean? Yeah, just all spreads out as it bakes. Right?
Seth Anderson:So good. What's your pulse on spinach and lasagna? I'm a fan. I like it. I like it a lot. Number one, and if you had a chance to read my blog this week, or as last week now, my dad's chili which I have taken over the making of and secret ingredients including brown sugar and dry mustard, not things that maybe everybody puts in their belly. But those are those are staples in terms of the flavoring components.
JP Gaston:Use the only to bleep those out when we know well. It's literally just they're no longer secret ingredients it's
Seth Anderson:it's literally in the blog, so I kind of I kind of messed that up. He used to always put beer in his and he also did his with beef. I have migrated to Turkey and sans the beer but still kind of tastes the same. So
Unknown:So can I ask you a question? Because here's like, for me the defining moment of a chili Baker Yeah. Are you is it beings lots of beans or no being Oh, is like the Americans don't put beans in there. You know, that's like total. Lots of beans. Lots
Seth Anderson:of me. So I agree. So I got a pretty good method down. I like to get some crushed tomatoes in there. I'd like to get like a medley of peppers and onions and I'll put jalapenos in one usually make one without jalapeno sauce, some mushrooms in there. Sometimes I'll do one of each because some people don't like mushrooms. And then I usually go with Turkey for the meat and then just a whole pile of kidney beans. White red and usually black beans. I don't really like the chickpeas or the in there. I'm kind of on those but yeah, that's that's more or less what's in there.
Unknown:I agree. I think the more beans the better as a matter of fact, I I'm even cool with just a bean jelly. Yeah, no, just being chilly. And that's good. It's not good later, but it's good.
Seth Anderson:Awesome. Well, that is that is my list. And I could go on. I mean, we could do this every week. We could just do food, honestly.
JP Gaston:Yeah. Well, I'm I'm super hungry. And I know that you recently because when we when we talked to Nicole and Francine you hadn't yet tried the chicken as now you have. We can. Maybe we can close out on your review of the chicken that you
Unknown:had. And you guys I'm disappointed in both of you because I've been to Calgary multiple times and neither one of you have taken me for this frickin legendary chicken burger.
Seth Anderson:Well, I literally had four days ago for the first time so it's it's JP fault. Do you get a pass? You get a pass JP I'm fully holding you accountable.
JP Gaston:I was just holding it for this episode to build up the anticipation. Next time you're down consider me anticipated.
Seth Anderson:Okay, so my, my quick review on my first clock and cleaver experience. First of all, it was delightful. I went to the one that's in the co op. So not even street Yeah, not the not the I don't know what you would call it not not the O g location, not the O g location I went to you know, they're there. It's basically a stand up within the co op grocery store. And we were helped by a lovely lady by the name of heaven. She was super awesome, super outgoing, super friendly. And that was that was fantastic. How can she not be super awesome. Hey, my name like heaven. I mean, yeah, like, honestly. And Linda when we left Linden was like, Dad, that lady was so nice. And I'm like, I know. That was awesome. So it was a great experience. So beyond the food, I felt really good about going there and I will definitely return. I got a rotisserie chicken for the family. And Lyndon said it was the best chicken he ever had. It was really good. It was it was really solid. They also have like two they have the chicken rotisserie that's rotating and the drippings going on to rotate the table. Yes. And it's dripping on to like Yukon Gold potatoes underneath them that are also like participating. And all amazing, really good. We actually were able to make three meals out of this, which I'll briefly touch on. So that was all good. The fries were good. And then I had the burger, the mother clucker and the bun was soft, really nice, soft bun. Crispy Chicken, right like nicely breaded I don't know if it's like a buttermilk bread but like a nice thick, dark breading. I think that a coal sauna if I'm not mistaken and then it had a blue cheese and then like some sort of a spicy element to it. I'm not a blue cheese guy like I usually honestly like if I know No, there's blue cheese on it. I will spit it out like I'm not in. I hate it. Like a JP as you're describing it. He's like, yeah. Yeah, it was so good. So maybe I like blue cheese now. I don't know I at least like that burger. It was fantastic. Sounds phenomenal. This sounds like a cool thing. And again, this was my idea. Caitlin made it real. I put it in my belly. After I took a picture of it for the next day. We took the french fries. Okay, we mixed in some mozzarella cheese, we put them in the waffle maker, waffle fried the french fries, put them on a plate, put some leftover chicken avocado, a little bit of salsa, some lettuce, like had a little kind of like salad on top of it. Top notch, top notch. And I sent them a picture of it and Nicole was like holy clock so so that that was my experience. I can't recommend it enough is fantastic. Both from just general experience in the food and everything. So next time I come to Calgary you guys got to take me. Amazing. Thanks, everyone for listening. If you still are listening, we super appreciate it. Look out for the post. Tomorrow, we'll be having another giveaway from beyond the beaten path is going to be a chicken shaped cutting board. So tell us your top three comfort meals or foods that make you feel good and you'll have a chance to win a customized chicken cutting board on behalf of beyond the beaten path. That's right. Thanks. Thanks, Jordan. Really appreciate you hopping by. Thanks for having me on. It's awesome.