The Biz Dojo

S2E8 - Spreading your WINGS w/ Walter Vandervelde

March 09, 2021 Walter Vandervelde Season 2 Episode 8
The Biz Dojo
S2E8 - Spreading your WINGS w/ Walter Vandervelde
Show Notes Transcript

This week in The Biz Dojo, we talk with Walter Vandervelde. Among his many hats, Walter is a creator, innovator, educator, author, entrepreneur and TEDx speaker.

Walter shares his story of entrepreneurship successes and challenges as we explore how to find business creativity. We'll talk about how to become more than just a better leader, but a better person utilizing his WINGS framework. You'll discover how to gauge your skills, what to do to cultivate your talents, and what you can do to leave your trace.

Then on the Podium, we're joined by our sponsor Beyond a Beaten Path to talk about some unique names as we celebrate "Unique Names Day".

Pour yourself a warm cup of Dojo Dark, grab yourself a pen and paper and get ready to take some notes - this one goes deep!

Don't forget to visit us at the links below, and follow us on social media for exclusive content:
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Seth Anderson:

Welcome to episode eight, season two here in the dojo was Stephen JP. exciting week. I think JP, this is our first ball, our first internationally based guest, our second guest in two weeks coming to us from overseas, which is made for some interesting scheduling. But

JP Gaston:

to say the least interesting schedule,

Seth Anderson:

but very excited this week to have Walter vandervelde, a man of many hats, I guess would be the easiest way to introduce him.

JP Gaston:

Yeah, we've had a few people have many hats on the show being a show about entrepreneurs. There's a lot of folks who wear a lot of hats. But this one was a little bit different, a little bit more about innovation and creativity than about, you know, running a typical business. And what a

Seth Anderson:

great way to be able to describe yourself. It's what do you do? I create things and I innovate, you can take that very broadly. But I think that is a pretty apt description of everything we've gotten to know about Walter over the last few days.

JP Gaston:

Yeah, when I mean, the nice thing is, you get to know a little bit about Walter, before you talk to Walter, because he's got that Ted Talk. That's just incredible.

Seth Anderson:

I've watched a lot of TED Talks, that's the first one I've watched 10 times, I would say, you have a counter. It's literally saved in my browser. So for those of you who haven't had a chance to watch, I would encourage you to maybe even pause the podcast at this point and just go spend the 15 minutes with Walter beforehand, because I think it'll give you a really good perspective of what we're going to get into for the next 45 minutes or so

JP Gaston:

it would have been very easy for us to have an interview where we just talk about his TED talk, but we went deep, and we went really deep, much deeper than I thought we were going to go with Walter. It was like

Seth Anderson:

when you start talking about the meaning of life, and some of the trials and tribulations that he's been through. It was it was it was a really interesting interview. We I don't know that we've had one quite like this one.

JP Gaston:

Yeah, it was a nice change of pace, but still kept very focused on what we typically talk about, which is you know, how to improve yourself how to become a better leader, how to be a better entrepreneur, how to, you know, include others, develop your own skills, identify your own skills, like all of these things wrapped into

Seth Anderson:

100%. So, you know, I don't think we need much more of an intro on this. Hope you

JP Gaston:

enjoy it. There is no

Seth Anderson:

Hey, we haven't we steered you wrong thus far, I don't feel like we have. So hop in enjoy. Hopefully, you know, bring a notebook, I would say this is this is like the witch episode, the bill episode where I feel like I took more notes than I was expecting. And so bring your notebook. And let's get into.

JP Gaston:

Let's take it there with the study.

Voiceover:

This week on the pod, we talk to Walter vandervelde, TEDx speaker, author, entrepreneur, and much more. We'll talk about his journey into entrepreneurship. How success can bring about new challenges and to finding personal and professional fulfillment in helping others. Then, stick around for the podium, where we'll celebrate unique name day by listing some of our favorite unique names with our sponsors, beyond the beaten path.ca. So welcome to The Biz Dojo. Here they are. Seth Anderson, and JP Gaston.

Seth Anderson:

Welcome to The Biz Dojo. This week, we have Walter vandervelde. Walter coming all the way from Brussels, Belgium. Welcome. Well, thanks for having me. Yeah, super, super excited to have you in the dojo today. So just to give people a little bit of background about yourself, I actually thought I'd start off by listing your LinkedIn, I guess it's a biography at the top of the page, because I just found it so interesting. So under, you know, where most people would have their job description, you've got a bunch of words that I think really start to bring to life who you are. So what you've got down there is creativity, innovation, communication, education, author, strategist, and speaker, just in a little bit.

Unknown:

I've got to know about you over the last few weeks. And it seems like all those things kind of come together. And if you were to describe, you know, what your career journey has been, it's really been in the entrepreneurial space. What inspired you to go down that path was it's it's partially into the entrepreneurial space used to be now it's more in the educational space. And the reason why I put this separate words under my profile in LinkedIn is just because yes, I do all these things. And I don't want to be put into a box. So I was was not able to describe myself in in one function or one job or one industry. That's, that's the reason why, but yes, entrepreneurial. I must say that I tumbled into it a little bit. Because if if you die For blind, the red thread through my life, it's rather I'd say creativity. That's, that's in fact, my, my red thread and through creativity and stumbled into entrepreneurship. That's absolutely right. But to be honest, I was not that come from an entrepreneurial environment or entrepreneurial family. I just started when I finished my studies.

JP Gaston:

So you talk a bit about business creativity, and that opens up a whole slew of questions for me, but I will start with for the for the benefit of myself and the listeners, I guess, what, what is business creativity, business creativity? Well,

Walter Vandervelde:

this is there's a lot of misunderstandings about creativity. When you when you talk about creativity, most people think about the the artistic part of creativity. So if you if I tell someone, I'm in creativity, the first question I get back is, oh, what do you do? Are you a writer? Are you a musician to make theater? Are you an author, etc. So they link it directly to this, this artistic creativity, which is also a kind of creativity. When I'm talking about business, creativity, business, creativity is there mainly to solve problems or to invent new things. So now I learned my lesson. And I don't say I'm in creativity, I say, I'm kidding, creativity and innovation. And then there's absolutely more clear to the people. Because yes, creativity is what we sometimes call the fuzzy front end of innovation. But now also said on my LinkedIn profile is to make the world better to make things better. That's the reason for creativity in the broadest sense of what I mean. So creativity is linked to to make things better.

JP Gaston:

on your website, I was going through a bunch of your information on your website, and you talked a lot about some businesses, I think we'll we'll get into that a little bit. But one of the things you mentioned is that you you moved from being creative for others, to helping others find their creativity. That's where there's a lot of folks out there who as soon as you say something like you need to be more creative. They say, Well, I'm not I'm not the creative type, let's let's someone else can be creative. How do you work with those people who might not believe they're creative? But indeed that and that does in fact, one

Unknown:

of the other misunderstandings that that is that people talk about creativity. And if if you say that my job is to stimulate creativity within I often get this reaction that can you learn creativity? Can you be stimulated to be creative? The answer, of course, is yes. Yes, you can. That's indeed the the switch that I did. I've been I've been in marketing communication for about 25 years, I've been created for my clients, myself, together with my team. And then I made the switch to learning others to be creative and stimulating creativity, in teams in management, etc. So I studied the mechanisms behind creativity, because if you're born creative, it goes like like a natural flow, and you don't really get what you're doing. So why, why are you getting these ideas? Why are you bit more creative than the average people? So I learned about what are the mechanisms behind this creativity. And there are some mechanisms like thinking in alternatives, looking at things from different angles, using your imagination, postponing your judgments, all this kind of stuff that makes people creative. And once you realize that, you're understanding why yourself, you're more creative, and you can learn it to others. So yes, you can learn it. Absolutely. It can be learned to other people. That's That's absolutely right.

Seth Anderson:

So Walter, I'm curious, when you when you look back, you know, you've had a pretty inspiring journey as an entrepreneur and a leader building multiple businesses, what are what are some of the key learnings from your early experiences that have helped shaped your development into who you are today? Well,

Unknown:

as I said, I stumbled into to entrepreneurship, I don't come from any entrepreneurial family. And to be honest, if I had to do it over at, made a choice to, to work somewhere for a couple of years, because I really paid a high price for, let's say, my lack of experience. Yeah, when when you're a young entrepreneur, like me, without any experience, you're a bit naive, not good with financials administration. I made some terrible commercial mistakes, etc. So advise anyone who comes from from school and was the intrapreneurial spirit, please take some time and go work for three years, four years, five years somewhere, learn the job and the mistakes you make you don't make them on your own account. That's what I that's something that that I learned.

JP Gaston:

So just looking back, what was your biggest challenge that you overcame to get where you are today,

Unknown:

you might be good and you might be good in your job. And I started as I started as the as a graphic designer, because I was always, I was always interested in in creativity. From my childhood. I always made drawings, comics, wrote poetry, short stories, even I made music. I was always lining cars, houses, things like that. So it was quite obvious to me that I would I would do something in the creative with my status. So after high school, I doubted between doing theater school or a visual art school, but to my parents that that's that, that I had to think of my future, like most parents, so I started Applied Arts, which in my case was graphic design. And, yes, I had, I had a couple of clients in my last year. And I don't know if it's still the case in America as well. But here after one of the last generations here, after your studies, as a man, you had to do military service, which was a year, I didn't want to do military service. So I chose for civil service, which was two years, so it was double. So I didn't go for looking for for a job immediately, because I was convinced that no one would would hire me knowing that, that I still have to do my my civil service. So that's why I became a freelance graphic designer, I had a couple of clients, as I said, and I stumbled into that like like that. So I hired my first employee after two years, approximately. And three years later, I teamed up with a partner from a completely different business. Yes, he sold office machines, like fax machines like copiers, printers, etc. And then the business started growing slowly. And as I said, I was graduated as a graphic designer, but I was certainly more good, got more or more interested in the larger picture. So I did some postgraduate studies in marketing, communication. And also, yes, one when you when you employ people, you have to lead them. So I needed this those leadership skills. So also, for that I did some, some extra studies, you know, I'm intrinsically a very introverted person. And one of the courses that really opened my eyes and really helped me was an NLP course, in neuro linguistic programming it's thing, and that has really helped me with my personal development. So one of the learnings, one of the things I'm proud about is this personal development, you can be very talented and very professional in your own business. But that's not enough. When you want to evolve as a as a leader. You have to motivate and you have to inspire people. And you have to have some concept of confidence and social intelligence. And these are things that, yes, by growing older, they come naturally, but you can give it a push with a good course. And that's what I did.

Seth Anderson:

I would I'm particularly proud of was there a moment in the that journey? You know, when you start hiring on some people, you start getting a few more clients, that you realize you needed to get some more leadership skills you needed to add to that, like, was there a story or, or a moment where you realized it was something new, we're gonna need some new tools in your leadership tool belt.

Unknown:

As I said, I don't think I was born as a leader. I was very, I was very into introvert. But then yeah, you realize that you have, you have to, to lead people, and you have to motivate them, and you have to communicate. So that's, it's very obvious that that you have to grow in that. And you cannot stay behind your computer all day and make some night, great, nice creations, one day or another, you have to come out of the channel.

JP Gaston:

I feel weird, because I sit behind my computer all day now.

Unknown:

But you can't leave. That's it. That's it. That's your choice. But if it's if it's a choice to make your company grow, and you'd want to take some responsibility in it, there's no other way than leading people and get better at that. And I really had to overcome a bit of fear. That's, that's indeed true. Absolutely.

Seth Anderson:

So as your business started to grow, what were some of the new challenges that started to come up that maybe you weren't expecting

Unknown:

what the company grew, and it was, it was all nice, and then at a certain moment, and I'm talking about something like 12 years ago, together with my wife, partner, we made the decision to grow through taking over another company, it was a printing company, but it was a lost a large financial investment. And we didn't have the money to do so. But there were some external investors that that were interested. And so we spoke with them, and we convinced them to, to invest in our company. And looking looking back, this was probably one of the biggest mistakes I did, because the biggest big investor I'm talking about, he took about 70 75% of the company. And he also hired some personal contacts to to come work in the company of my company. So I became a small shareholder in my own company, but I thought it was okay. I had confidence. We talked this through I thought, he also had experience because he has proven he was successful in a completely other business. It was in medical device business. I was in communication. So I made a choice and in the beginning, I felt okay with that. But after a couple of weeks, after a couple of months, we came to disagree. A lot of on quite everything. In fact, a lot of These are good decisions as well. And due to the fact that I had a very limited power, I didn't, nothing to say anymore. And that was quite frustrating. And after a couple of months, I think perhaps more than a year, I made the decision to resign and to say, Okay, I can't work here anymore, I don't feel good anymore in my own my own company. So I resigned, and I tried to sell my shares. But apparently, no one was interested, I always considered my own company as my as kind of my pension. But I couldn't, I couldn't buy shares. So it was the money that was somewhere not available anymore. And one year later, due to, in my eyes, wrong strategic decisions, the company went bankrupt, and I lost a lot of money. But this is something I don't tell many people. But that's another story. There's this big investor I talked about, he was my own brother. So this makes not only professional drama, but also family drama. And I can say, well, we had quite good relationship before. We're one of the best friends but we're a good brother real relationship. But I can imagine that after all, what happens we we start talking, start having contact. And this is about more than money. Of course, it's it's all about respect. It's all about confidence, this kind of stuff. And you can also imagine that our parents, they, they suffered from it. But both me and my brother, we were rather stubborn. And at a certain point in time, our Father even wrote a letter to both of us. And this touched me so much that I said, Okay, is one of us to take the initiative. So I took the initiative to connect with a mediator because I was sure that we were unable to talk to each other without a mediator. And I remember well, it was on a Tuesday that I talked to this mediator that said, I want to talk to you. And I explained the situation. And I made an appointment for the week after. But the same week, on Friday, my brother died on his bicycle from a heart attack, or some cardiac arrest. And that was, yeah, that was a very, very hard moments. So you can imagine all the emotions that come with it, guilt, regrets, even anger, pain, grief, this kind of stuff. So. And it was also in a period that I was, was just in a divorce for two or three months, after 23 years of marriage. And so, on that level as well, I was not feeling very well, in my life. I'm talking about 10 years ago, 10, nine years ago. So there was a very happy period in my life. And luckily, I came out of it. With the help of my children, my family, friends, now I'm happily married again. But it has been quite some hard time, also, financially, etc. But that's all over now.

Seth Anderson:

Obviously, you've used that, you know, as inspiration to move forward. If you were sort of, you know, looking back, is there anything you would tell Walter from 10 years ago, when you were sort of in that space? Like to kind of get through? Or do you think if, I mean, obviously, you found the way, but

Unknown:

you will, you will always find a way? Of course. That's that's one thing. Well, I say, intrinsically, it's not a bad thing to talk with investors and to have investors in your company, etc. The only thing is, and that's something I didn't do, really talk it through very deeply. What do you want? What do you expect from each other? How do you see the future? How do you see this collaboration, etc? And I must say, perhaps we haven't. We didn't do that to hell. Yeah, because you think you know each other. But in the end, it seems that that you're, you're not so familiar with each other, with your own family. So that's the only advance I would say, if you if you team up with someone or business wise. talk this through from the very, very beginning, in in all the details, that's what I can, I can say,

JP Gaston:

I feel like that probably applies not even just to an investor's right, like as a, as a leader of a team as someone who's working on projects as just about just about every level of any organization, just really that open, honest communication and really digging into the details, I think is an important aspect of leadership in general.

Seth Anderson:

Yeah, absolutely. That's absolutely right. As you move forward You recently wrote a book, you've been really focused on teaching others you did your TED Talk, which, you know, I was just honestly super inspired by it's one of the best TED Talks I've ever seen. So I want to thank you for that. But have you found fulfillment in this? Like, are you do you feel more fulfilled as a person as you've kind of gone off and just become Walter and on your own? Absolutely,

Unknown:

yeah, absolutely. I consider this as as as the outlet for the years of knowledge and experience that you they gained during all these years. And if you talk about realizing your dreams, while both are writing my book, teaching now the things that I'm doing, I'm so very happy with it, I'm still very fulfilled with it. And it's a direct cause of my of my happiness. I'm sure about that. So I think that that sharing some things, in my case, it's knowledge sharing something is really very satisfying. And that's what I want to continue doing. It's the h4 EAD. And, and there's still so many things I know what to do. Yes, as, as I, as I told you, in the, in the conversation we had before this, this, this podcast, there are four important values in my life, and they didn't just pop in my into my head, they grow slowly and steadily. And although I'm not a religious man, but there are there are some some links with religion unconsciously. Because I think everyone is looking for some kind of value in his life, the sense of life itself, it's very essential. And these four values, now very consciously, I tried to keep to them. And the first one is what I call, use your gift. And use your gift is your gift, consider it as a talent, everyone is born with a certain talent, something in which is better than the average person. And that's, I think that's I say, it comes from nature, and nature has his reasons for everything. So go look for it, what is your talent, and if you find your talent, or it can be plural can be more than one talent, I try to develop it, that's the first value I want to live for. In my case, it's certainly it's it has to do with creativity in the broad sense. Second one, as I said, to develop it, that's my second one, learn and grow, learn and grow in your own talent for for us beginning. But you also need need side skills. As I explained, if I want to be a good entrepreneur, a good leader, a good manager, I need some other skills than just the creative skills. That's why I follow those courses, other human skills, I'd say, so go and develop your skills, try to be a better person professionally, but the better person in your life personally as well. So that's, that's my second value, I tried to keep them. And a better person means also caring for others. And then I come to my third value, which is for me, open your heart, try to give try to share with us, this is something one of the most self rewarding thing that you need to do is sharing things. So helping is the most satisfying experience, I don't have to open your heart to help others. That's what I'm trying to do now with writing a book with education or working with students, which really, which really fulfills my heart with pleasure, open your heart. And then to come to the last one is what I call leave a trace, I leave a trace, of course, that positive grace, I know that Adolf Hitler has left a trace as well. But that's not the phrase I'm talking about. Leave a positive praise. And not only to be remembered, but but really to to help next generations. And it can be it can sound very naive, no, but to make the world a better place. And that's what I really mean. So these values I have become my guidelines in my life. Like company houses, its mission and vision. It's It's my personal mission and vision. And as I said, I used to, to live like it unconsciously. But more and more now that I made them in my head. I have to write on paper one day, it's very consciously that that following these these values, this has become some rules for me as well. On the other hand, it's also a continuous process that never ends. So you have to keep working on it.

JP Gaston:

The good news is I just wrote them on paper. So is it 33? Yeah, they're definitely written down.

Seth Anderson:

This piece will make a beautiful infographic. Yeah, you're you're good enough. You, you prove that you're good enough. I've seen that as well with wings, and I think we're gonna get into wing shortly. But I love all of that. I have a couple of questions, or I've been one more of a statement and then and just sort of a question. leave a trace. I think that one really like I've been thinking about that. Since we talked about it, and then our pre call, and for those of you who've been following along with podcast, I wrote a blog earlier this year about my dad passing away, he passed away 13 years ago. And, you know, one of the things that I wrote in there in the last paragraph was, you know, how he didn't really leave behind any material possessions, he didn't have anything named after him, he didn't have, really, he just left a hole in a bunch of people's hearts. And that was about it. And it always kind of bothered me, like, he didn't have a legacy. But when I actually, like, started to think about it, you know, all the things that I've been doing with my life, my siblings have been doing, you know, his grandkids that traces there. And sometimes you got to look for it, you know, it doesn't necessarily punch you in the face, like a statue or, you know, a big bank account. But, you know, maybe you talked a lot about making the world a better place. And, and, and if you can do that one person at a time, one conversation at a time and live those values, like that's, that's the most powerful stuff out

Unknown:

there, I sort of think as well. That's what I think as well. And something that I realized, now the older I get, the less value money has for me. So for some, some other values that have much, much more important, of course, you need money for for, for making a living and to survive, but its value is really much less for me than then than before. Absolutely.

Seth Anderson:

And I guess, just a back into the other ones that you listed there. Finding your gift, I think can be a lifelong endeavor for a lot of people. And I feel like I'm just starting to tap into that now. And but, you know, for someone who has no idea and you talk about it in wings, I think in the third pillar, which we'll get into in a minute, but knowing who you are, and what you want is such a such a powerful statement. And I think in order to find those gifts, you really got to get in touch with that. Absolutely. And for some of us, it's quite, it's

Unknown:

quite obvious what your gifts are. And one of the tricks is go back to your childhood. What did you like to do as a child? What were the games you'd like to play? What were the toys you were playing with? cetera. So that's one thing. But there are a lot of people that that still didn't find our gifts. But on the market, there are a lot of good coaches, a good coach can help you as well, or piko, turpis, or whatever. So there are ways to find your gift. But it's very important to know that and that's, that's very good. That's why I put it as a first starting from that you can learn and grow the second one star and going back on that you can open your heart help others and with ending with leaving a trace. So it's really in this in this order that you have to do it. You have to start with finding your gift and and use it. That's absolutely true.

JP Gaston:

That second point around developing your your talents and your skills. I think for some people, they they might know what their gift is. Or they might feel like they know what their gift is. But they might not necessarily know how to apply it in their current situation. So for example, you know, we're on a podcast, so they're not going to see this, but for for the listeners who have watched us on Facebook and whatnot, I do have a bunch of guitars in the background, which is a is a creative expression. But I might not necessarily know how that applies to my business life. So what would you say to someone who might know what their creativity talents are, but aren't sure how to apply it? Is that still find yourself a coach and and work together to figure that out? Or is there other tricks and tips that you might have?

Unknown:

Well, of course, what we're not talking about, about business about work related talents, that's one thing and you're right, if you say, Okay, I like to play guitar, but I cannot really use a talent in my in my work. Well, you shouldn't care about that. If you play guitar, it makes you happy and makes other people happy, then then then you succeeded in that talent. It doesn't always have to do with your work. If you can combine both, then you're a lucky man. But if it makes you happy, and other people happy, then just keep it like that. I sometimes say if you make your hobby work, you don't have a hobby anymore. So So keep your hobby and and, and try it and Mm hmm. I'm sure that's not your only talent playing guitar. You have lots of other gifts, our talents, which you can, can use in your job, like you're doing now for instance, like this, this this podcast, I'm sure for USF is one of your your many talents. And it's, I should say, part of your work as well. So you will always find how to use your talents one way or another is it personally or is it professionally? So? Yeah, don't focus too much on the professional thing. Both things are there to make you

JP Gaston:

happy. That's great. Cuz I think a lot of people do focus on that, how can I turn? How can I turn this into work and they don't realize that you already spend enough time at work. Now you don't need, you don't need to spend 90 hours a week at work in three hours with your family like, you can, you can be separate what that's

Unknown:

that's another thing as well and good companies have an eye for that, that really put the talents of their of their employees in the spotlight. And I know for with Google, for instance, which is the most well known example that comes to my mind, you have to regularly organize events where people can really put their their talent on on a stage where they can really put into the spotlight. They organize whatever music evenings for for people will make music or exhibitions for people who like to paint or to draw or whatever talents you have, they give the people the possibility to use that. And this is absolutely an added value. And so you see, you can combine for it with with with private talent as well, if you're working for a good company, why

Seth Anderson:

not moving into your TED Talk, Walter, so for the last couple of years, you know, in my day job anyway, we've been spending a lot of time talking about, you know, digital, the digital revolution, and how that's transforming the workplace. And I would say we've spent the bulk of our time talking about the front lines, right. So the people who are answering phone calls or inside customers, homes like that those those jobs are being impacted, as we digitize many of the tasks that they would have done previously, I think what I loved most, and you know, I have loved a lot of things about the talk, there was a couple things I loved, I loved how you, you brought it into a framework, right? Like there's been a lot, I've seen a lot of things, we've had a lot of discussions, but it's sort of fuzzy and ambiguous, but you kind of bring it all together into a nice framework that anyone can understand, which I think is very helpful. But the other point you bring up is, this is not just a frontline job. Challenge. This is this is across the board. This is, you know, you talk about doctors and teachers, and just basically every job is is going to be impacted by what's coming. And so just before maybe we get into that, though, what what inspired you to do this talk and do this research, where do I come from them instead

Unknown:

of them, I've always been interested in how the future would look like. And that's one thing. And it has to do with innovation, which has limited creativity, of course. And on the other side, I've always been interested in human behavior. So this behavior skills I'm very interested in as well. And two years ago, I got from from the University College, where I teach, I go to an assignment, one year assignments to develop a vision and a strategy for their continuing education offering. And I dived into it. And I started reading and researching on the future of work. And related to that, of course, on the future of education, because one has to do with other. So yeah, I started reading quite a lot. And I came across Of course, like everyone knows those those well known lists from the World Economic Forum, LinkedIn learning Harvard Business, school, other educational organizations, etc. And I noticed a lot of differences as well as overlaps. And I was curious about that, how does it come? So I want to look into what are effect the roots, what are the basic of all those behavioral skills in that case, and I really want to look into this, this primary skills because if you know your primary is just like that you have red, blue, and yellow, like the primary colors that compile all the other colors, or the basic tastes that compile our entire palette of face. So I was curious, what is also impossible to do the same thing with, with behavioral skills with a soft skills. And you know, I like to structure things, it's something that I wear that I like to use is simplexity, making complex things simple. So this has to do with my communication path as well. I worked for a lot of companies in business to business, sometimes very complicated technology, etc. And you have to translate it to the user. And I really have always loved that to translate complex things into into very simple things. That's the simplexity thing that I'd like to talk about. And the same here. Because it's rather complex behavioral skills are complex, make them look very easy to understand. And that's, that was a challenge that I that I took.

JP Gaston:

So making things easier to understand. You have the acronym for wings. How did you come up with the acronym? Oh,

Unknown:

well, yeah, I started with the T shaped professional which we I think most of us know the T shape professional. It comes in many variations. And the variation I like is that on the vertical axis, you have the knowledge skills, and the knowledge skills, our work and industry specific. For instance. When you're an engineer, you need some work specific skills, you need to know a lot about math and calculations and whatever physics, whatever it is. And let's say that you're an engineer in public transport, you have to have this industry specific skills that are specific to public transport. So you need both. And you can absolutely learn that and that's the different vertical axis indices are the pure knowledge skills. And then on the horizontal axis, where my focus is, we have this behavioral skills, because they cannot succeed only with his knowledge skills. If, as an engineer, you have to lead people you have to communicate, you have to sell your your idea to people wherever you need these behavioral skills as well. So if you will work on that as well. So on the vertical axis, we have this work and industry specific skills on the horizontal, we will have the work and industry neutral skills neutral, because we can use them everywhere. That's why it's neutral. And these are also skills that make you grow as a person in your professional life as well as in your personal life. So I call them growth skills. And if you add that to what we already have, it becomes a work and industry neutral growth skills. And that's the acronym is length. And it's isn't it a beautiful metaphor to give somebody wings on your open arms. So that's where warmth comes from, once again, and communication. This is something that people understand very well. And communication wise, you can do a lot with it. So that's something can people remember, that's where wins comes from.

Seth Anderson:

So in the video, you get into the five pillars, maybe we could we could touch on all of them, probably. But you've got creativity, critical thinking, self management, you have attention management, and which one did I miss social intelligence, social intelligence, there we go. Is there any of those in particular that are more important than others? Or do you really think the key is having balanced in all five?

Unknown:

Well, ideally, you will have balance in all five, but it's highly depends, of course, on the job to do and the industry you work in. In some cases, I can imagine that a pillar like creativity, or a critical thinking is more important when you work in a business that needs innovation, that needs to make quick decisions, etc. When you're working in the business. That's where you have to collaborate with other people where you have to do work quickly concentrated, then things like attention, management, social intelligence are more important. I also believe that no one will equally be good in all five skills, there are skills that you're better in than others. For me, it's clearly creativity, that is my, my best skill, which is my expertise. But don't get frustrated if you're not equally good in all five skills. But I know that you did a good group exercise on that stuff. And I'm really I was really, I was so flattered, and I was so happy that that you did that. I think it's such an added value, I mean it from the bottom of my heart. And this is what I call co creation, someone makes something which is a good base, but in the you use it for a lot of people for for enhancing it. So I really love that. And I want to thank you for that as one. That was very, very nice. I was very surprised.

Seth Anderson:

For Thank you, thank you, I it. It's funny, because it actually happened entirely organically. I've been working with this concept of expectations versus agreements. And anytime I enter a call or a meeting, I try to put all my expectations aside and just be open. That sort of open heart concept is to be open to whatever's going to happen. And that's very much what happened in that meeting. I got my team together, it was very early in the year, we're talking a lot about the future of the workplace for you know, looking at our organization, where are we headed? How are we going to get there, and I shared the video, just because I thought it, it hit a lot of the things that we needed to talk about. And we got to the end of it. And everybody's just kind of looking at each other. And I'm like, you know what, let's let's take five minutes and self reflect on these categories. And then you know, you have your skill, talent mindset, or talent, skill mindset, sorry. And like, where are you at? And I did the exercise too. And what I found was, I feel like, the critical thinking is a mindset for me. Like I approach everything that way. That's not to say I can't get better, but it gave me some perspective, like yeah, the way you defined it, really hit home with me. But then when I looked at attention management, and I love the way you framed it because you can't manage time, but we can manage our attention that really hit home with me. And so in front of my entire team, I said you know what, I'm I'm at Basecamp on attention management. That's not to say that, obviously I do it somewhat well, but that's that's where I want to put my effort and focus. So when I'm starting to set personal goals this year, this gave me a framework to be like, okay, here's where I'm gonna put some focus and key one is on attention management. So I thank you because it really helped me sort of organize my thoughts and put some goals together.

Unknown:

Yeah, absolutely. There's a purpose, of course. And I really love that you make, and you made an assessment of it. And I really also also loved it that, that you ask people, where are you? Are you in a talent phase, a skill phase or a mindset phase? I never thought about that. That way. But But you're right, if you can, if they can mathematize. Like that. That's, that's great value, I think. So we have to work together to develop that further. I really mean that sub exam. It's absolutely great. Absolutely.

Seth Anderson:

Love to and then I think, you know, when you talk about, we talked about the future sort of being fuzzy and ambiguous, and we throw these terms out there. But even we're not totally sure what they mean. What I love about this is it actually gives you a chance to, you know, why I did the self assessment approach is, what people are finding is, maybe they're a little further down the road than they thought they were. Right, like, hey, maybe I'm a little more creative, because I always thought of creative as painting. But yeah, you know, when you when you talk about your definition, which is connecting things that were never connected before, that's, that's beautiful, and people can like, Oh, well, maybe I am a little more creative than I thought I was.

Unknown:

Indeed, indeed. And I think it's the same with with all the other four skills as well. You can say, okay, social intelligence, that's not really my thing. But you might be more social intelligence that you consider yourself. And that's the case for for most of the things, but once again, that's the default that some people make. Some say that you cannot learn these these behavioral skills. And that's just because they try to use the same learning methods as they do with the knowledge skills. That's what I'm explaining in my talk as well. But of course, as we know that, that it goes, it goes further, it doesn't stop with the knowledge, it doesn't stop, stop with the skill, you have to make it part of yourself. It has to be a natural way of thinking doing reacting part of yourself. And that's what I mean with a mindset. But it's this means that you need teachers that that also give you the good exercise to practice it. And it's not something that you learn in a week, you have to practice it day by day in every situation possible. And then it becomes a mindset. Like you, you learn social behavior. For instance, we learn social behavior from when we were a child. And now it's something natural that comes out of it. If you say if you if you meet someone, you're you're going to greet them. The first social behavior, it's an it's an, it's a reflex, and that has to be the same with all the five when skills, practice, practice, practice

JP Gaston:

it kind of in that vein, are you talking about continuous learning is there some, you know, a self guided platform that you would recommend to help someone grow their wings?

Unknown:

Yeah, you can learn a lot of soft skills on even that good quality platforms like you have LinkedIn learning, or Coursera, or Udemy, Skillshare, has, etc. And they really have their value. And that's about what's new about the wings idea, of course, they're really the basics, the primary skills, you can try to find these primary skills on these platforms that I mentioned, I think you will not find the essential skills there. So that's one of my ambitions as well to create a platform, a kind of all in educational offer, where you can learn those skills, be it online, or be it face to face or kind of blended learning, whatever. So I still have plans in my head to make it a kind of master class or postgraduate studies or whatever, and offer it to people online, offline, whatever. I'm really curious if there would be a market for it. I think it will, there will be but I'm not sure.

Seth Anderson:

I'm signing up. I know that. I really, you know, I do think that it's getting people to in a space where they can kind of consume I think even your TED talk as a starting point, because I've yet to show it to someone you know, when you kind of like put all the distractions away and just listen and watch. It's so relevant. It just brings it all together for people. So I mean, for me, personally, I

JP Gaston:

think there's a market for this. It's just, you know, getting people to slow down in their day to day to think about the future, I think is probably the biggest challenge people really want to concentrate on. You know, they feel they feel like they're a big machine and they want to concentrate on all the parts rather than seeing if is that machine even the most efficient it can be in the first place, forget about the parts, and understand if what you have in you is enough. And how do you build that? How do you build all of those sort of soft skills rather than just trying to learn these? These, I guess, hard skills, math is great. But if you haven't developed and worked on those more soft skills to understand how you can use it in new and different ways, then, you know, it's just always going to be the same thing over and over and you're never you're never going to innovate you're never going to get to that creative point. Well

Unknown:

that's right and that's, that's where our our a classic educational system lacks Of course, as well. They're all focused to these narrow skills and you need is no skills I've never seen a tutor needed but these are of course, skills that are much easier to handy dandy dandy 40 offers reasons that I say that you have to give some exercises to practice them day by day. And this is something that doesn't always fit in our school system. Right, but we have to focus on it. And I see that it starts happening here in Europe, I don't know in the states as well as the American. But it starts happening slowly, and gives me some hope.

JP Gaston:

It's easy to show someone how two plus two is four, it's a lot harder to show them. Something you can't just write on a piece of paper. That's absolutely,

Unknown:

not only to yet to learn, but also to make some examinations to be quoted this, what I did was was one of my biggest challenge when I started teaching creativity. And, of course, before I did this with professional teams, but then you don't have to quote their their results. Now I really was obliged to quote, their creativity. So this is very, very, very, very difficult to do. So what I what I did, and this is the best thing you can do, don't quote that their knowledge of skills, creativity, because it doesn't mean anything. Just quote on how they use it, and how they progress. That's the way you have to do it. And that's where you have to do with other skills as well think, looking to, to how to use it, and how do we progress in it rather than the pure knowledge, don't want to make some walking Google machines of your students, they already exist?

Seth Anderson:

I think the question that, I go back to it, it's stuck with me. And I think it'll stick with me for the rest of my life. And I've been asking people, I do quite a bit of mentoring and coaching in my in my day to day. Who are you in? What do you want? That's sort of the two plus two equals four in a way, like most people can't answer that question. Or they really have to think about it. Like it sounds like such a simple question. Who are you in? What do you want? But I don't know that, you know, most people are conditioned to think that way. Right? Like, they think about the job title, their compensation, whether what the next job title might be, but do they really like for me, it's only been in the last six to 18 months that I've really started to think like, Who am I and what do I want. And maybe that's why your video landed so much with me. Because when you start thinking from that point, money becomes a little less important job title, because like all these things that you think are so important, just start to kind of wilt away. But you find that fulfillment inside which is so much more powerful.

Unknown:

Now, of course, job title money, it also comes from comparing with others, of course, why are some people in poor people in Africa? Why are they still happy because they, they compared to people that are the same as they are? If you start comparing with people that that have more money than you that have more status than you, then you're going to become unhappy. That's this always the same. And about money. This reminds me as well, my ex father in law, say so he was he was very keen on money. But it didn't do anything with us. And when I asked him, Why Why do you want money? He couldn't answer that question. What is the sense of money? You have to have money? He said, You have to have money. And that's the back life. He didn't answer it because he didn't spend it. It just just collected it. And that's not the way to do of course. And this bit what you're saying, I think

Seth Anderson:

there's a song quote that I really like, and I can't it's something like some people are so damn for all they have is their money.

Unknown:

Yeah, that's right. That's absolutely right. And once again, yeah, you need you need some some basic income, otherwise, it will not make you happy as well. For me money is there to buy myself some freedom, you know, the jobs I'm doing now feels like it almost like not not working, because I love my I love my professional life as I'm as I'm living it. And that's the biggest richness that you can have is doing what you like. So you're not have to work for your money anymore as best you can do.

Seth Anderson:

That's beautiful. So, Walter, it's been a absolute pleasure having you in the dojo. It's my pleasure. Well, I mean, he kind of touched on it a little bit. But what's next for you? And sort of 2021? Well,

Unknown:

yeah, that's that's a very difficult question. And I have responded with with the same kind of Vegas, but is under my, my LinkedIn profile. The only constant is change, of course. But of course, there are a few certainties. And I think, yeah, creativity is my main interest will always be and it's also my expertise. So everything I do, will be related to creativity in its in its in its broadest form, innovation. Once again, communication. Yeah, you have to communicate as a professor, as an author, as a speaker, as a strategist. Education will also be a red thread in my in my rest of my life. Yeah, that's the other thing that interests me, and that that made me happy and that will keep with I keep it with me for the rest of my life. I hope

JP Gaston:

so other than other than checking out your TED Talk, which we will absolutely continue to encourage others to do. Thank you for what what are some of the ways that people can interact with you?

Unknown:

We're getting touch with you. Oh, you can they can of course always go to my to my LinkedIn profile. I love linking to people and talking to people. You mentioned my website, I'm very ashamed to say, but it's not up to date anymore. I have to update it if I have some time. But you can always write me a mail or link with me with my, on my LinkedIn. I think that that last one is the most effective form.

Seth Anderson:

Awesome. Well, thanks so much for making the time today and look forward to connecting a little further on the wings. Self Assessment. Absolutely.

Unknown:

Well, thank you, JP and so for for the interview. It was very nice talk to you guys. Absolutely.

Seth Anderson:

No, thank you so much, Walter. That was great.

Voiceover:

Thanks to Walter vandervelde for joining us today. Don't forget to check out Walters TED talk for his book, when the Bucks is the limit. You can also connect with Walter at Walter vandervelde comm or through LinkedIn. Now stay tuned for the podium. Brought to you by beyond the beaten path for everything from laser engraving. Do unique custom gifts visit beyond the beaten path.ca.

Seth Anderson:

Well, JP that was pretty fun,

JP Gaston:

enlightening, inspiring, so many. There's so many words that I could use. I don't think I've used enlightening before. So I'm gonna let's get settled on that.

Seth Anderson:

That's a good one. I like it. I'm inspired. I'm inspired to, to do many things. But before I get to those things, that is, you know, changing the world and, you know, figuring out what the future looks like and arming all the people that I work with with those skills. We'll start with wings with wings. Now that skills wings, hashtag wings, check it out. We're gonna start with a podium, as usual brought to you by beyond the beaten path. And special guests this week are the masterminds behind beyond the beaten path. Welcome we've got mama Seth and Aaron. I was wrong. whatever whatever you want to go by. I mean that is a good segue into this week's topic. It is it is in fact international unique names day today. Did you know that JP I mean

JP Gaston:

I did before but but prior to that talk I did not know that it

Seth Anderson:

is actually I believe international names week and the first full week of every March I don't really know what that means but unique names seemed like a relevant topic purely because we have a lot of unique names in my family.

JP Gaston:

I don't have that many unique names you mentioned I have my dad is Ron and my brother is Ron. That really starts to eliminate

Seth Anderson:

arrow

Mama Seth:

I'm sensing I should trade trademark the mama SAP does apparently I no longer have a personal name that is now named my preferred to

Seth Anderson:

Yes, sorry Laura Malloy is also here. A unique name and its own right I suppose.

Mama Seth:

Not Particularly.

Seth Anderson:

But I digress let's let's dive into top three unique names and Mama Seth, I'm going to put you on the spot first and you came up with half of these names. So

Mama Seth:

it's ironic you say that my name may be unique unique but when you hear my sister's name she'll find out that my mother totally dropped the ball with me and apparently only established an imagination after I had been born as I was the first one. So my top three unique names will be first my two sisters to Shanda and correlate So that would be my one and two which growing up they could not spell nobody could pronounce they ended up being shortened to Shan and Lena yes very very unique name so try being a Laura with a Shanda and a Karolina

Seth Anderson:

word a grandmother even come up with those names like where did those come

Mama Seth:

from? Shanda I believ was a book in the I'm not sur if it was the hospital librar or something called Kashanda a d the elephant and it's a tually an East Indian name I b lieve. And it was about I t ink a little boys I think it m y be and I may be wrong but I b lieve it was a little boys E st Indian name and she just f ll in love the name of C andigarh Shonda

Seth Anderson:

in the hospital while giving like she was she was about to give birth and she was working through the

Mama Seth:

you. Yeah, if you know my mother, you wouldn't be surprised by that. And then her love Corey lane, but back then in the 70s she felt that she'd be called Cory or lane which were boys names. So she shortened it to coralina and then later on, I ended up naming your sister Corey lane so yeah, it's it was actually a made Carolina was a name she made up. And then my third name would be for Peyton your other sister, which my grandmother's maiden name everyone always David king. After my grandma, so I want to say one after Nana. And her last name was Cajun. And so I named Cajun Cajun, but then Nana beg me, please spell it differently, not ca t o n because she wanted to get called cat. So I changed it to KTY n. Well, it turns out that's a name of a Russian forest where a horrific massacre happened. So if you google Katyn, it's actually catching this Russian and it's a horrific, horrific place on Earth. So yeah, kind of dropped the ball there for the internet, though. Yeah.

Seth Anderson:

I think my two favorite parts of that story is how Kaia did not make your list. Which is your other daughter. And I also really appreciated the reminders of my sister's names. That was good.

Mama Seth:

names.

Seth Anderson:

All right. Well, those are that's an inspired list. You have their mother JP, what what did you round up?

JP Gaston:

So I've got not that many horribly unique names. I mean, everyone, you know, sometimes a little bit of unique name, perhaps from Europe, so it's not as unique over here. But I guess number three for me was is actually fairly common. I will say, I think Scandinavia name leaf at a friend and in public school named leaf, it was the only one I ever knew. So even though I know it's common there, it was very unique here. So that was my number three. My number two, our most recent purchaser of dojo dark, longtime friend went to school with her letha, which is a little unique. Thank you.

Seth Anderson:

Thank you. Welcome to the dojo, dark rose,

JP Gaston:

where we're sorry that we've ruined all of their coffees. I tried to drink another coffee the other day just to like, mix it up. I had two sips that I just dumped it itself.

Seth Anderson:

It's a we're not actually sorry. But carry on.

JP Gaston:

But she she commonly gets as he is common with unique names, she commonly gets misspelled mispronounce. And then number one for me, my son has a bit of a unique name for around here. His name is Declan. So I'm going to go with him for number one a little bit unique, but not so out there that, you know, I have to use symbols and whatnot, and a decoder ring to figure out what his name actually is.

Seth Anderson:

And what inspired the name Declan.

JP Gaston:

We were looking up names for months as you do when you're about advocate. And we ended up just looking through a list of Irish and Scottish names. It was a mix of both because we have both in our in our past, so we thought maybe we'll find a unique name here. And we both liked Declan. And there we had a few names. Even day of going into the hospital, we had a few names that we had picked out and we were deciding to wait until we saw him to decide what his name would be and so he apparently looks like a tech. That's what we landed on.

Seth Anderson:

Awesome. Great, great list. Iran or your parents or your parents on the list. Dave and Laura, those are pretty unique.

Unknown:

I don't know how much more generic you can get an MCU

Mama Seth:

thanks.

Unknown:

I kind of pulled the USAF in my top three me and four were my top three I was debating between Cody sons Adrian, and what you call me in mamasezz masan. So yeah, that's always a good one. I decided to go with Cody's sons Adrian because he just pulled up as a baby. And I've always said names are always always unique to me. So I want to zero in for that one. Whenever

Seth Anderson:

I'm honestly still disappointed. They did not name their third son Zerrin. I was really pushing for that.

JP Gaston:

I don't know what you wanted him to be zapped.

Unknown:

There's a side note right there would assess mentors in Wayne right here. He calls him Yes. So that's that's kind of funny.

Seth Anderson:

He called he called me several times. And I could just tell it didn't taste right. He's like, No, I'm going to go back. Anyway, carry on.

Unknown:

Oh, my number two I'm never usually a big fan. Most full names, but I kind of like this one. It's amaryllis would be your sister tie his daughter's name. I went just just for whatever reason it sounds good to me. So I went up that one for number two, and then thank you again for the reminder of my sister. I lose track

Seth Anderson:

of the show that's for the show. Alright, carry on the listeners now. No, yes.

Aaron:

And a number of number one I kind of went with the GP wrote where was a European name. To hear it's it means kind of an object but my grandpa's name is Helmut. So, here it's an object there. It's there to name. So those are my top three.

Seth Anderson:

Fantastic good lists. So list.

JP Gaston:

And what about yours Zeff?

Seth Anderson:

It's interesting because like half my names got taken. I had six on my list. I'm shocked. I mean, I was kind of going with like sibling duo's as a theme because I think we've got some interesting ones. So, you know, Aaron mentioned Zadrian, but his younger brother Zander. So we've got Zadrian and Zander. Hence, and now Oakley, which just throws it all for a loop. I was really hoping for the triple Zed connection. But anyway, I refer to Adrian as big z, and, and xandr as little z. So that's got a nice little little play on it. Although, are you supposed to say z or Zed? I don't know. Doesn't matter.

JP Gaston:

I mean, Zed technically, but if you're trying to create a rap duo in the States, that

Seth Anderson:

double z coming atcha

JP Gaston:

little.Zed Zed top doesn't have the same sound to it either. So I get I get the way you go with z.

Seth Anderson:

So that's what I have is my number three. Number two, mother. This has just always been interesting to me is my siblings names are Cory Katyn, Kaia and Cody, and I got Seth, so I don't know. It's like you kind of picked a theme after I was born, I guess. Is that what happened?

Mama Seth:

No, no, I liked that, that that. Nobody had Seth before. When you were born, Seth was not a communist. It was a very unique name. And I loved it. Because he was born. I want to name him. Kodiak but everybody fought me tooth and nail on that and would let me name him Kodiak so and it was gonna be spelt with a K. And so I had to compromise with Cody and it was C and it wasn't really the name I wanted, but I got overruled by the rest of the world. And so that and then the girls, they were just it was just a series of the way it happened. So no, it wasn't the theme. It just happened that way.

Seth Anderson:

No, I was saying to JP, before we started that you almost named my brother Kodiak. And he's like, how what do you mean almost like

JP Gaston:

almost like you were writing on the birth certificate. You're like, tackle do I? Never mind.

Mama Seth:

Literally, that was the name I wanted so bad and everybody's rubbish and wouldn't let me name him that. I love that. But ironically, if set had been a girl, he would have been Jesse if Cody been a girl who had been Jesse, but if Kira had been a boy, she would have been Jessie by the time the twins came along and said screw it and left Jesse behind. Oh, yeah.

Seth Anderson:

I'm sure there's like a Jessie's girl reference in there. But just zoom right by that into my top line. Which again, to finish off the sibling theme is is Jovi and Linden. And I feel like they're both pretty unique. You don't come across? Well, I've never come across another jiofi a couple lindens along the way. Linden was inspired, certainly by my favorite, or one of my favorite hockey players, Trevor Linden. At the time, well, I don't know. He's one of the greatest conductors of all time. But also we just really liked the name and it stands for I think it's a type of tree actually, there's a linden tree, which is like strong and it was just felt like a really good name. We actually landed on that immediately. We might have even decided that before we got pregnant that Linden was gonna be the name. So yeah, if he was a girl, I think we were we were leaning towards Kessler at the time.

JP Gaston:

You're pretty stuck. I cannot say

Seth Anderson:

well, at the time. I was I mean, I don't know that I would do that now. But at the time, it was when they were really good. They were that was the year they went to the Stanley Cup Finals. Kessler was an integral part of that. I had to Jersey the whole deal. But anyway, that things have changed since then. But that's where we landed was London and then Jovi was less. So we didn't know we were having a boy or girl. We that was the Let's wait and find out we knew with London. And the night before we went into the hospital. We like reviewed the names. We did not have a point name. Actually, really at all. There was probably like 10 that were sort of floating around. But we were down to two on the girlfriend and they were Marnie and Jovi. And we had dinner and then we shook on

JP Gaston:

Toby. Well, that was a pleasant dinner, Madam, shall we shake on this name? position? Sure.

Seth Anderson:

Indeed. Indeed. Yes.

JP Gaston:

fantastic evening, I shall retire to my

Seth Anderson:

crib put our monocles down

JP Gaston:

as a real romantic dinner

Seth Anderson:

was that's that's that's Jovi's name came to be. So that's it. That's my top three unique names in honor of international unique name day. Awesome. Well, thank you, masan for joining us, you're welcome. As usual, beyond a beaten path. dot ca. Ever we've been saying that wrong the whole time. That's right. Okay. For all your lasered goods any anything new you guys got that? You want people to check out if they're still still on the pod here.

Mama Seth:

Our website just got updated. We kind of are getting more stuff added, bringing out a whole new line of amping. cardboards we've got classic Cadillacs, pulling campers, camper vans and traps and I'm surrounded at the moment by 15 cardboard so that I'm trying to get painted. So yeah, check those out. They'll be going on the site. next couple weeks.

JP Gaston:

You're like Scrooge McDuck, but with crib boards just swimming

Mama Seth:

through you. That's how I feel.

Seth Anderson:

Awesome. Well, everybody needs a crib board.

JP Gaston:

So hey, and and things are selling out for a campsite. They're worried about reselling of campsites right now. So camping, camping is the thing this year because I don't think there's much else going on this summer.

Mama Seth:

No, so get your camper report. Hell we can even do your actual camper we can do once a family and we just did a really cute camping one where our fishing one where there's lake and fish and pampered little launch Farren fishing rods. really super cute. But yeah, check out the website as we get them all added the next week.

Seth Anderson:

You can even get mine and JPS face on one if you really wanted

Mama Seth:

more dartboard for The

Seth Anderson:

Biz Dojo dartboard.

Mama Seth:

Yeah.

Seth Anderson:

Awesome. Well, thank you guys for joining today. And we'll talk to you soon.

Mama Seth:

All right, sounds good. You guys, you guys.