Supporting young high performers and gearing up for Los Angeles 2028 - 'A conversation with Molly Sacker'

In this episode British Sailing Squad member Molly Sacker joins Gordon MacLelland to discuss her own sporting journey, the lessons she has learned, how we can best support young high performers and life gearing up for Los Angeles 2028.

During the conversation they discuss amongst other things:

• The importance of consistent messaging to young athletes from parents and coaches
• Sacrifices or individual choices?
• Motivation and commitment and the importance of discipline
• The dangers of early success if it leads to complacency
• The logistical and emotional strain on parents who support young high performers
• Mollys mantra of 'It’s not that deep—it’s meant to be fun.'
• Female athletes perhaps needing specific support environments, especially in male-dominated sports
• Promoting balance, independence and emotional well-being alongside performance

Molly Sacker is a member of the British Sailing Squad campaigning for the LA2028 Olympic Games and is a Masters Graduate in Conflict, Security and Development.

Additional Reading

What is burnout and why does it occur?

Great Questions for your Sporting Child

Transcript

Speaker 1 0:13

Welcome to season six of the Parents in Sport Podcast. I'm your host, Gordon Maclelland. I'm delighted to be joined today by a member of the British sailing team, Molly Sacker. Molly, thank you for joining us on the show.

Speaker 2 0:26

Oh, thank you very much for having me. It's cool to be on here.

Speaker 1 0:29

Yeah, looking forward to chatting to you about a number of things. I've been really impressed by some of your uh writings and musings, I guess, in the build-up to uh LA in 2028. And I want to talk about some of the lessons you've learned, some of the things that you've seen, and how we support um young people today or young high performers today to achieve some of the things that they're trying to achieve. Um now I know a little bit about you, um, but a chance for you to tell our listeners a little bit about yourselves and and your experiences in the sport so far.

Speaker 2 1:06

Yeah, so um I am a member of the British Sailing Squad um in the Ilca 6, which is the women's single-handed Olympic dinghy. Um, and at the moment, I guess I'm campaigning for the LA 2028 Olympic Games, um, which is really exciting um and a big kind of change since I finished university um and really just focusing on world and elite sport.

Speaker 1:28

Fantastic. And what what age did you start sailing, Molly? When did when did it all start?

Speaker 2 1:34

So I think I started sailing when I was about 12, 13. Um, and then I fully started racing and kind of working my way up the junior ranks when I was about 15, um, which is a little bit later than a lot of people, um, but it really hasn't mattered so far.

Speaker 1 1:50

I was about to say that actually. I mean, just uh already going off on tangents from what we planned to talk about, that's probably a little bit later than a lot of people um would have started.

Speaker 2 2:01

Yeah, I think for sure. Um I did a lot of sports growing up, um, the classic, you do everything as much as you can, um, and then kind of just fell in love with sailing and the ability to be kind of on my own and the freedoms it gave me, and then kind of decided to specialise, I guess, in that um more so than other sports when a lot of people I think were a couple of years ahead of me in terms of like age that they decided to do that.

Speaker 1 2:25

Yeah, did you when you first went into the uh program, did you also feel that you were that couple of years behind? Um, or did you feel like the gap wasn't as big as you maybe thought it thought it would have been, or was there a period where you were able to then catch it up, perhaps because of those early experiences you'd had, or um the fact that I don't know, you were still super fresh and motivated because it was something new that you hadn't been doing for for such a long period before that.

Speaker 2 2:57

Um I think sailing is actually quite unique in the term, in the fact that you kind of the first regional team I think that I was part of, we were all just under 16, and there were some 11-year-olds and there were some 14-year-olds. So it was n never really oh I'm I didn't feel a lot older, it just felt like we were all the same level, and I just happened to be older, and these guys happened to be a bit younger. Um, and it's not until you kind of reach like the under 19, under 21 where the bands of competitors aging get a lot smaller. Um, so it was actually quite, I guess, inclusive. Like it didn't really matter. Um, you just kind of got on with what you wanted to do, and everyone was kind of the same, yeah.

Speaker 1 3:39

Fantastic. And you alluded to the fact that you suddenly decided that you wanted to be on your own, um, away from everyone else. So, did you play team games uh in your early part of your life as well? And or was it all individual sports even back then?

Speaker 2 3:55

Um, which was what I loved it, and I still played all the way up until I went to university. Um, but it I think just the ability to kind of get on with what you wanted to do, and I really loved kind of being accountable to myself. Like if I want to learn this, I can learn this. And if I get better at it, then I get better. Whereas I feel like in the team sport for me personally, you do feel a lot of very reliable kind of on everyone else. Um, and although it's so much fun to be part of a team, um, there are lots of benefits to being able to work on your own.

Speaker 1 4:27

Yeah, and I I think that thing you're talking about there about you're able to take responsibility for your own actions, what you choose to put into it, and hopefully see some of the potential rewards has obviously um stood you in quite good stead as to as to where you are today. And one of the one of the art the sort of pieces you wrote which really jumped out to me was this idea of sacrifices against choices. Um I think a lot of people say, you know, should young people be sacrificing a a lot when they're really young uh for their sport. Um, but then you hear you do hear the flip side of that where people say, Well, actually, it's not a sacrifice to me because I want to do that and I want to make that choice. Um where where are you on all of that? You you've said it far better than I did.

Speaker 2 5:21

Uh well, I feel like I'm a lot more eloquent, maybe in my written work. Um, but I think for me it's always been if you want to do something, you wanted to do it. So you're not really sacrificing the other thing you wanted, you chose to do what you wanted to do. Um, and it only kind of I think becomes a sacrifice when you start to doubt your decisions, or you wonder if something was maybe a bit better, and then it's almost like you weren't fully committed to the decision you made. Um, so for me it was all about just if I would like to do this and it's gonna make me happy, and it's actually what I want to do right now, then that's fine. Like I'm not sacrificing the other options. And I think in sport you it's a lot said, like, oh, you sacrifice all your weekends to play sport, you sacrifice your friendships and stuff. But you forget that in the world of what you've chosen to do, you're not on your own the whole time. Like there are people around, it's friendly, it's fun, and you're not sacrificing a different life because you didn't choose to do that. Like, that's an alternative that you didn't it doesn't it's not there because you didn't choose to do it. I don't know if that makes sense, but um yeah, I think it does a lot.

Speaker 1 6:32

I mean, you and I were even talking before we started recording around the the challenge of context. Um and I think obviously when some people jump onto sacrifices, you know, uh parents of of under 10, under 11, and under 12 young performers missing weddings, christenings, not going on holidays, um, because they think that is got to be the difference between whether their kids end up achieving what what what they want to achieve or they want them to achieve. I think it's a very different dialogue in providing you know some kind of balance to young performers. But I think once a young person um decides that actually, no, this is what I want to do, and this is what I want to achieve, actually that's then a choice. It's not a sacrifice, and actually, if you make that choice, you're probably going to gear up a lot of your decisions to support that. So I'm guessing that's what you do. You'd made that choice that that's what you wanted to do. What changed, Molly? I mean, can you think of things that you sort of felt? I know we're not talking sacrifices and choices, but anything you changed in that commitment to achieve what what you set out to do?

Speaker 2 7:47

I think I think when from the very beginning, like I always wanted to do I'm I guess I'm very determined. I what I want to do, I want to do it properly. Um, and I'll give it my best shot the whole way through. So I think for me I've always tried to apply myself properly, is probably not the right word, but like completely to something. And I think with sailing, as I started to get better, I was like, oh, this is actually really fun, and I'm really enjoying this. So like why would I stop? Um, and if I'm here and I'm putting in all these hours training, it would be silly not to commit everything else to it. Um, and I'm not saying I became like a hermit monk and kind of committed my entire life. Like obviously you have a life as well that goes alongside it, but I think it's just making those smaller adjustments that means that if something comes up that you have to miss, say, say a funeral or a wedding, that is really important, like those things are like life-changing or like big events, you've done enough all the rest of the time that like a weekend isn't going to alter the course of what you want to do, and it's like the commitment that I've shown to sailing and the discipline that's it's installed in me means that missing one thing here or there won't alter the future. So, like you can commit to everything but still have that ability to be like, no, this is actually important right now, and it's not gonna impact the long-term goal. And I think I was always quite realistic within myself from quite a young age that there were certain things I could do and certain things I could do, and the whole world wasn't gonna collapse, but these things needed to be in place in order to do it.

Speaker 1 9:27

Yeah, brilliant. Yeah, so there was some thought and and planning into that. You've talked about um commitment there. Um, I was having an interesting uh chat with somebody who also speaks for working with parents in sport, a woman called Sarah Murray, who's a sports psych, and she was talking to me recently about commitment and motivation. And she was saying, well, if you commit to do something, you've committed to do it. And actually, motivation may oscillate at times. There are days where you don't want to do it, or the days where you wish you did do those other things, but actually, does the commitment outweigh the motivational piece almost almost trumps it to say actually no, because I committed and that's what I decided I was gonna do. You you obviously sound very driven and got it all together, Molly. Are the days when motivation in Molly's world um aren't quite where they should be, just to make everybody feel better?

Speaker 2 10:21

Oh, absolutely. Like I said, especially sailing, right? It's an outdoors sport. There are some days where the weather is horrific, you know, you're tired, you just don't want to go out, but you know that once you're out there, you're gonna enjoy it because you do like doing that thing. And I think, yeah, that's where the discipline and the commitment just really pushes you through. Because for me, I'd be disappointed in myself if I didn't do it because I kind of didn't want to. If there's not an actual valid reason, a reason rather than an excuse, then you've got to look at it. But also if you keep going and every time you do it and you don't want to do it, then I think you've got to take a little step back and be like, okay, I am committed, I am motivated normally. What's what's the issue and can we solve it? Because it doesn't need to be a problem because you wanted to do this, so what what's changed? Kind of so unless you need that like critical step back. I think just for me, I'm always like, keep going, even if it sucks right now, you'll be you'll be all right. Yeah, you've got over yourself.

Speaker 1 11:17

You've come out with another great Molly phrase there, valid reason, not an excuse. I I think that's brilliant in itself. That obviously with motivation, the Times thing. Well, if there's a valid reason that you have to miss, it is. But as you say, when people sometimes are struggling for motivation, it's hard to find any reason not to do it, which then becomes a becomes an excuse. And I suppose if you are trying to achieve or doing it, I suppose it's some of these phrases and and mindsets, conversation things that actually help you because you sort of think through it and think, oh yeah, I'd just better get out then. I think like you've just said there, there's probably also something. I think it's the same for a lot of parents who do their exercise and get out. Probably the hardest bit's getting out the back door. Actually, once you once you get out and start doing it, actually everybody's all right. It's just that initial bit to get through.

Speaker 2 12:11

Yeah, I think I think that's so true. I think I saw something by, I think it was maybe like a one-off little Instagram post or something by Charlotte Dobson, who used to be in the bush sailing team, went to the games. And she was like, Oh, even if you don't want to do it, just go and tell yourself you'll do half. And you will do the whole thing because you're there and you're like, oh, I'm Mayor's on. And it's kind of that little bit like, I'll just get going, and then you know that you'll pull yourself through. And I think it's just like you have that tendency. I'm definitely one of those you grumble a bit about things, but you know you're gonna do it, you just gotta grumble, and that's kind of you, your like little kickback that you're not gonna act on that, you're just grumbling, and then you get on with it. Um, and that's fine because yeah, why not?

Speaker 1 12:51

When when you were so let's let's bring your parents into this. So obviously they've supported you with different pieces along the way, and obviously you'd committed to doing something. What would your parents have been saying to you when you were that little bit younger, Molly, where you were maybe having some of these conversations with yourself? Did they just give you space? Did they put the onus all on you? Did they have to drive some of it sometimes in terms of ensuring it it happened? Because we all need a support network, right?

Speaker 2 13:22

Yeah, for sure. And I think my parents have always been really supportive. Um, but I am one of three girls, um, and we all did sports growing up. Um, so that you can imagine the logistics of three different girls and three different sports, kind of. Um so that was always like a big thing. So I think my parents were like, if you want to do it, do it. But you have to want to do it because otherwise, like it's makes our life a hell of a lot easier if we only have to take your sisters somewhere. And I think it was the same for all of us. So I was very much like, I want to keep doing this. And I think my parents never really thought the sailing thing would kind of last. Um, I when I was younger, I always wanted to be a horse rider. I was like, I want to have I want to be a horse girl. I think my parents like we're not doing that. Um, we'll give this a go. Um, so kind of really jumped on that bandwagon and haven't really gotten off since. Um, but yeah, they've always been very supportive. But it's like, well, if you want to do it, let's do it properly. Um, and if you don't want to do it, you can stop at any time because there's no point doing something for the sake of it. Um, like do it because you want to do it and you're enjoying it. So that's kind of always been my motto. Like, if I want to stop because I'm not enjoying it or I'm not getting any better, then I will because it's hard. Like, there's no point doing something that you don't want to do if it sucks.

Speaker 1 14:36

Um that's kind of where we've I think look, I think you've I mean, I think there's a couple of things in there, just thinking back to previous episodes. I'll never forget a conversation with Rachel Vickery, who was a a New Zealand gymnast, and her parents were very similar with her, and she had training at six o'clock every morning, and it had to be something like they had to set an alarm for five o'clock before she went to school. And what they said to her was that they were always available to take her, they would never fail her on that, but she had to set the alarm and get up. What was not going to happen was that they were going to go in and wake her up every morning and it became a battle. And because she wanted to do it, she obviously got up and did that, and the parents then supported it. I think one of the other big things you've talked about there, and it's part of our talks with parents, even though it's probably one of the most difficult conversations to have. I think your child probably also needs to know that if they're no longer enjoying it and they don't want to do it, they can actually come and have that conversation. Yeah, I think back a few years we were working in a program where we were asking young people why they were doing something, what was motivating them. And we had a 17-year-old who was really achieving, and the reason he was doing it was he didn't want to let down his mum and dad. And you sort of sat and you think, oh my goodness, this really is that's not really what we wanted to sort of hear with with your motivation for doing it. But I do think that's difficult because, as you say, parents commit time, they commit money, they've obviously got all the logistical challenges. I think it's harder if your child's good at something as well. That that makes it even harder. I've been through that that personally with a daughter on one thing that she gave up, and it wasn't because there was a problem and she was quite good at it, but she just didn't enjoy it as much as the other thing. And I think parents have got to tell their kids that conversation is always on the table. You can come and talk to us. I don't think it means we react and say yes, you give it up tomorrow. That's not what we're saying, but just letting our kids know that it's all right to come and have that conversation with us rather than fearing it, I guess.

Speaker 2 16:58

Yeah, I think as sailing, it always felt like such. So if it's sailing, so we don't train kind of weekly because the amount of time we obviously need daylight hours, we need like appropriate weather. Sailing's not the kind of sport where you can be like, we start at four and we'll be in at five. Um, it's very much a weekend thing. So a lot of the time we would go down to the National Sailing Academy in Weymouth, and we live in Kent, so that's like kind of four hours. So you'd go down on a Friday night after school and you'd get back on a Sunday evening. Um, so my father would always take me, and my mum would say she would take my sisters to hockey and tennis and cricket at home. Um, but my sister was actually a weekly boarder, so I would never see her because she would come home on a Friday night and go back to school on a Sunday night. So then my dad also didn't see her. So we had a lot of stuff like that where my parents are like, Do you still want to do this? So all of us, right? Because she went to that school so that she could play more hockey. Um, so we all were balancing this thing, but it was kind of you get that, are you sure you want to do it? But I think also for me, the timing of those questions was also quite important because you know you had a bad training regatta, or you like bad training, bad regatta, and then you're driving home, it's four hours. Are you sure we still want to do this? Well, right now, no, no, I don't. Um, but on the Friday night on the way down and you're buzzing to go, and like all week you've been excited to go, obviously, like I want to go. Um, so I think it really goes in ebbs and flows, and you know, I think there's like a time and a place obviously to have these questions. But I think that gets the point. I think when I was about maybe I think when I first started sailing, and I was literally just like learning to sail, and it was me and they were all boys. I remember sitting on my bed being like, I'm gonna tell dad I don't want to go sailing. Like, I don't want to go. And then he'd be like, right, we're off. And I'm like, okay. And then you get there and I'd be like, oh, this is so much fun. Um, but it's yeah, I think asking the questions is great, and I think it does really help because some people do want an out. And I've sailed with lots of people. I'm like, I don't think you do want to be here. Like, you love the changing room, the chat, but you know, all the stuff that's going on, but I don't think you're that interested in the sailing. They'd be like, Oh yeah, guess I'll see you next week. You'd be like, Yeah, I guess so. Um, so yeah, there's definitely a time and place, and it's really good to ask the questions, but yeah, I think yeah, there's a balance.

Speaker 1 19:16

Yeah, I I love that. I love that context and timings again. When's it a great question? Yeah, it might be good then with a bit of space and no emotion flying around, as you say, tired and coming out of a four-hour journey and things haven't gone according to plan. Now may not be the time to have it. Yeah, absolutely. I mean, look, that that's that's golden advice in there. Um, so we've talked a little bit there around sacrifice choices, little bits around that commitment, motivation. And we've talked also, I think, for you, you sound very routine driven, habit-driven, which obviously then gives you the confidence in what you do. And it and you talked about in many ways it gives you the confidence, well, if I have to miss that, I know it's not going to be the difference between whether it's going to work or not, because actually you have been doing the work um as it goes along. Um, and I think your better habits, your better choices, they enable resilience, which we know is important. We know resilience builds uh character. Um, resilience gets banded around in so many wonderful ways around the world of of social media, um, generally as a generally as a word. Um, what does it mean to you? And what are your thoughts on how you sort of developed it and how do we support the development of it in young people?

Speaker 2 20:41

So I I think like the very like definition of resilience, like being able to ri withstand like difficulties and toughness, is kind of how I literally interpret it. Um, and I think that that's quite important because when I was younger, I don't it's until recently, honestly, I've never been very good at sailing. Like, in my opinion, maybe I'm a bit hard on myself, but I've never won any like youth titles or things like that. I've done well, but I've never been like this girl is like standout, and I've had a lot of periods where I haven't made national teams that I've really wanted to make, and I've been that first person, not selected a lot. Um, so for me, it's resilience probably is one of my like underlying characteristics at this point. Like it's kind of had to be. Um, which is great until a point like you don't it's obviously great to be resilient and be able to get through these things, but you don't want to always have to be resilient, right? You want to be good enough to not need to be, but sometimes it just doesn't work like that. Um, and I think that nowadays it's obviously very different from kind of the environment I grew up in and the way that funding structures work and like the COVID stuff, and things are very different now. But I think that we're not seeing maybe the same kind of resilience levels in some places because It is hard and maybe it's a little bit harder and people aren't just really committing that last little bit. Um, and I think maybe it comes back to not being fully invested in something in the first place. Um, because I kind of said earlier, like if you don't want to do something, don't do it, right? So, like if you're trying to be resilient to try and get through into sport and keep going and building that, but you actually don't really want to do it, you're not going to be able to be very resilient to these challenges. But if you do want to do it, I think that that kind of grit and the want will kind of push you through that extra last little bit. Um, and there's always that saying, right, it's the hope that kills you. But it like it doesn't kill you till right at the end. So you can keep hoping right until the end, and then you get there sometimes and you're like, okay, that's worth it, right? I'll I'll suffer another two years of not quite getting what I want. Because in my mind that this is what I wanted to do, so it's worth kind of digging deeper for.

Speaker 1 22:55

One of my uh favourite and most topical sayings that, Molly, it's the hope that kills you. I was privileged enough to be at Anfield on Sunday, and it's only been 35 years since one prior to the other, and actually, yes, it's been worth every single ounce of every bit of disappointment along the way. And I think that I think I think that's right. I think the resilience piece for young people, and I talk to a lot of young people about this. Sadly, there's things in modern day society, there's bits around technology, there's bits in certain bits of modern day parenting, which aren't necessarily helping the development of that. I feel like we're really having to double down to get them to have a clear understanding, like you have as well, of what it actually may mean. And I think it is linked a little bit as well towards some of that actual choice, commitment, the confidence in doing the work. I think that allows you to withstand some of the challenges that you face. And I think it's also nice hearing about your journey. You know, I think when you're talking to parents about every child's journey, I sometimes am conscious that they're thinking, oh, he's only saying this to make us all feel um a little bit better and we shouldn't be comparing at this stage because X did this. But the reality is most people who've achieved have failed and have gone backwards at certain points and have plateaued at certain points. And I think it's really good to bring it to life that you've said there that you know there weren't many youth titles. There were times where you weren't selected for the team you wanted to be part of, and you missed it by you missed it by one. And yet here you are, you're still standing and you're still striving and going for it. And I I think there's a an awful lot in that. Do you think did you ever come across any people performing growing up who maybe did have that early success where there was maybe a negative in that that not that they thought they'd cracked it, but maybe their work ethic and desire wasn't there in comparison to maybe what you were doing as somebody who was striving to get there, almost like the early success had had a bit of a negative impact almost.

Speaker 2 25:16

Yeah, I think for sure, and I think there's a lot of people that were much better failures than I am that have since left the sport because they're like did so well so early, and then kind of other things came up, or they weren't as committed to the goal, or they maybe didn't have a goal, they'd just been doing really well and it was fun and it was easy. So, like, why not keep going? And then when it did get a bit tougher, they're like, Well, I don't even know if I do want to do this. Um, so I think it is kind of a double-edged sort of like youth success. Obviously, it it gives you so much experience of doing well early, which is quite hard to achieve once you enter like the senior world of sport. Obviously, it's really hard, like it's really, really hard. So when you then do get to the front, it's harder to kind of stay there because you don't know how to do well because you've never won, right? So, like the youth people that have done really, really well have that extra experience. So that's something that they can draw on, but then they've also never had that racing. Like, I had heaps of regattas where I'd be like, Oh, I'm third to last. This is an improvement. Yesterday I was second to last, you know. And you'd be racing around with the four of you at the back all weekend. You'd be like, Oh, dad, nice. And then my sister would be there as well. She's like, I actually came last overall, but I got a prize for it because I did all the races and like I didn't go in and I didn't retire. And so things like that, you're like, Oh, that's pretty cool. Like, it's it's not like a reward, but it's kind of like a oh, it's better than last time, so why why not? And you have that early adversity.

Speaker 1 26:43

It's an improvement, isn't it? And sometimes you aren't gonna get your the outcomes that you want, and maybe that thing that you're talking about in in youth programmes, actually, the experiences you're picking up in many ways may be more important than the than the titles, you know. When we're we're talking and developing young people and some of these traits that we've spoken about this morning, um yes, early success is brilliant as long as we're developing these building blocks to sit next to it, because actually, if we don't, and it suddenly becomes a little bit more difficult, and we know that outcomes are gonna come and go in sport, which they do. If you actually haven't got that other stuff holding you together, then actually, like you say, it becomes too easy just to actually do I'll just give this up now. And in many ways, it had nothing to do with the ability as a performer, it was more the fact they didn't have the other stuff sitting alongside it. It's become a really big part of our work. I think it's so important with young people.

Speaker 2 27:46

Yeah, because I think a lot of my like youth of junior career can be described as like a wobble. Like some sometimes it was good, sometimes it was bad. But I know like how to manage that. And I'm much when I was younger, I was very bad for it. Like I would have a probably a little tantrum, I'd be very snappy on the way home, like just really disappointed. But now I think I'm much better at being like well. So for saying we get say we get 10 races in a regatta, we get to drop our worst score. Um and it's it's always like, well, everyone is gonna have a bad race, that's why they give us one drop. So, like, if you have a wobble this hard after one race, like then you've already thrown away the next one, so that's not gonna help, is it? Um, so I think it really helps to kind of just know like how to deal with bad racing and stuff like that. So it prepares you for just trying to level out kind of your responses to things, and not to say you can't be emotional because I think being emotional is good, but it's like when you can be emotional. Yeah, like you get five minutes and then you've got to leave it and grow up, kind of thing, is kind of the way I see it to myself. Like you can have a cry.

Speaker 1 28:53

Who who's helped you with all that, Molly? Just talking like you taught there around those terms. Is it things that you've picked up, bits of advice from parents, anything from sports psyches? Is it the experience of going through it, or is it a combination of all of those?

Speaker 2 29:07

I think it's probably a combination of all of that. I think I've more recently done a lot of like thinking myself and like reading and stuff like that, and worked with a little bit with a sports psych to kind of be more like how do I manage myself? Yeah, because I used to be quite reactive and I would I'm a very good at winding myself up. So it's like okay, well, how can I not wind myself up and then not let other people wind me up to do that? And in doing so, I've been like to be really like candid about it, it's not that deep, like it's sport, it's meant to be fun, like keep it fun, and then if you keep going back to that, like why am I here while I wanted to go sailing? Are you sailing? Yeah, do you get another race in five minutes? Yeah, so our races are like an hour long, so you have quite a lot of time in it to kind of get back into it or come you know, like take stock and then refocus, and I think that is like a really good thing from sailing. It's it's not it's not a 10-second sprint, it's a really long six week, six-day regatta, two races a day, two hours a day of racing. You get it quite a lot of time, so for me it is learning that like if you blow up on day one, it's a really, really long week. You've kind of got a karma or like respond in a more balanced manner overall. And I think like you hear little bits from coaches after each regatta. Um, and it's kind of I think for me, there's never been one moment where I've been like, oh, that's really good. It's kind of just like people make an odd comment in a conversation or something like that, and I'll be like, Oh, you know what, that makes a lot of sense. Maybe I'll give that a go next time.

Speaker 1 30:50

Yeah. I mean, you've done that with me this morning with your valid reason, not an excuse. I mean, you you you pick up you pick up odd things along the way. Uh, we've touched on the role of of your parents already and the logistical things, and that that that conversation was always open um about you potentially giving it up if you wanted to, probably due to the sheer hard work that it was on uh on the whole family. Um looking back on on their role, and this isn't about throwing them under the bus um at all, um it really isn't, because we all acknowledge, including myself, that you know, I always say that if my kids were scoring me for my sports parenting, even though I live in this field, I'd be lucky to get a seven out of ten at the moment for my current performance with my two teenagers. But looking back, when do you think they were really, really helpful? And were there times where I actually I really that that just didn't help in any way, even though their intentions were obviously good. Was there anything that just didn't work for you? Or do you think they became quite good at knowing actually, well, we know Molly pretty well, and actually we know when to leave leave certain things?

Speaker 2 32:01

So I I think I kind of had two different experiences because my dad used to drive me to sailing, so I would always just be with him. Like he had the more of a sailing link. My mum's not doesn't know much about the sailing world or didn't know much about the sailing world, and to be honest, neither did my dad. Um, and like I said earlier, it's probably quite snappy. Um, dad used to kind of just let me sit for a minute. I think he learned kind of quick that maybe asking me questions of any form of any sort within the first like 20 minutes in the car was probably not ideal. And I think once we figured out that I actually just needed to be fed and then like spoken to, and we could talk about something else that I would then bring up. I think we learned that pretty quickly. Um and like I don't think I really realized that until a couple of years later that that was actually going on. Um so I think for me, for my parents not really being in the sailing world, we were very new as a whole family to the sport. They didn't really know much. So sometimes I'd be really wound up by like silly questions. I was like, How do you not know this? But they're like, Well, we don't know. And I'd be like, I can't believe you don't know. Um, so that there was a bit of probably a bit brattiness from me when I was younger. Um, but we quite quickly learned that like let's just crack on with actual life and then we can ask other questions on the way home. Like it's four hours, we're obviously going to talk about it. Um, but let's give it a minute. Um, and then kind of we got into quite a good routine. Um, and I didn't really like the routine being disrupted too much. But sailing is by nature an unreliable, like timings-wise. So it's just kind of if he was around, that was really useful. He'd be there to do my like get my trolley, help me sort the boats out, help me, then I'd go and get my own space for a bit, and then we'd come back and then it'll be fine. Um, so I think that used to work really, really well. Um, and my mum was obviously like at home, we'd come home, we'd all be sourced out, and everything would be fine. It was all really easy. Um, and I think a couple of times for me, like the worst bit was I always knew obviously that I had two sisters that were also doing sports, and I was very aware that my sport monopolized a lot more time than my middle sisters, because I was the eldest. My middle sister's sport, which is hockey, obviously she would train more midweek, but it was much shorter and it's easier. Kind of you drop sailing a lot of the time, your parents are stuck in the clubhouse, they can't even see us. They can't even see us.

Speaker 1 34:21

Yeah, it's not it's not a great. I mean, being at the Nationals here, it's not a great spectator sport from the uh from the bay sometimes.

Speaker 2 34:28

Exactly, yeah. So you kind of just dump your parents with a bunch of other parents and be like, I can't believe you didn't have a great day. Like, what are you talking about? Why are you bored?

Speaker 3 34:36

Yeah, yeah.

Speaker 2 34:36

Um, and having taken my sister to a few events like in the past, I would be like, Oh, I can kind of see how everyone would just be a bit tired at the end of the day, regardless. Um, so I was always very aware that I had a lot of my father's time. Um and so I think a couple of times I would have a regatta that maybe I wanted to do better at through no reason, then I just assumed I should be doing better. Um, and then be disappointed in the result, and then one of my parents would say, Oh, like, well, that was a waste of money then, wasn't it? Like, what a waste of time. And I'd be like, Well, I'll just quit everything, you know, like lifesaver, like whatever. So I would be really reactive to a comment that was probably made somewhat flippantly in frustration at the fact that they were probably disappointed for me, which I obviously didn't realise at the time because I was cross because I was disappointed myself as well. And then for me, that would feel like, oh, like this is this sucks for everyone. Like, why am I doing this? Like, it's really unfair for my sisters. Um, and then obviously my parents would be like, Well, we've got to give my siblings more time because my youngest sister then started sailing as well. She did hockey and sailing, so she was kind of doing both. So then dad would also take her um and me. So sometimes we did the events together, which was like once every like blue moon that they would actually align. Um, so then we wouldn't see my mom very much because she was then taking my sister to hockey and it was like all like this whole thing, and I think I would feel like a lot of stress about that, but I didn't really realize that I was like worried that it was all kind of like that. And I think a lot of a lot of people that are sailors, I guess I can relate to, had the same thing. Like we know it takes a lot more time than other sports in terms of we don't just go do our race and come home that evening, like it is a whole weekend, it's never not a whole weekend. And like I've driven all the way to North Wales before from Kent, and we haven't even sailed when we've come home. Like, I can understand that that feels like a waste of time and money, like, because that is that sport. Um, and unfortunately, like it happens. So I think that for me that was like one particular sticking point. Um, because it's not a secret, say it's a really expensive sport, but like all elite sport is expensive by the time you get there. Um, so like I was always very worried, like for some reason, very worried about that, and it it's something that you can't avoid, right?

Speaker 1 37:01

Like it just is yeah, there's just I suppose there's a there's a pressure to it, but there's nothing you can do to avoid it. I think some of the things about your parents are brilliant because we're we encourage parents in talks to be talking about their kids about what works best in the car journey to and from competition. And actually, when I talk to young performers, they say similar to you, well, I'd love some food, I'd love a sleep, I'd love a bath and a shower. Very fair of saying that I really want to pick the bones out of that performance in the first part, you know, the first part of the journey. And I think that our ability to be more self-aware, a bit more understanding as adults, and actually it's not that young people don't want to talk about this, but but actually the timing of some of these dialogues and the conversations are really important because they're there that means when we do have them, well obviously it's gonna actually have an impact on on both people. So I think your ability, and dad was obviously brilliant at working it out, that your ability to work together, and he obviously fell into actually this is the best way of navigating the world with Molly because Molly's world's gonna be different to somebody else's world. So I mean that was good on dad. The one thing that I did like though was the bit around with your parents being relatively new to the sport, because we often get asked this in sessions. We've got obviously some parents in high performance programmes who have absolutely no clue about the sport, and they come they come to me and say, Oh god, and I'm a bit worried because I know nothing about it. And I and I'm a sort of a little bit of the view that okay, well, that could be a good thing, by the way. Let's be clear, because actually we've got no muddied grey area then between coaching and parenting. You're gonna have to ask a lot of questions to your kid, which could be good and could be bad, as we've alluded. But you're genuinely gonna have to take an interest, you're not having to provide that extra coaching support, which I think some parents feel that they need to do, particularly those that have been maybe been involved in it. And obviously it'll work for some kids, it doesn't work for all of them. Do you think it was a good thing? Do you think it was a bad thing, or do you think a bit like that there were pros and cons to them not not knowing anything about it or not knowing too much about it?

Speaker 2 39:18

I think I really liked the fact that my parents didn't really know much about it. I know for a fact that like, so when we are under 18, I think the coaches had to have a parent on the rib, like the support boat out on the water, um, just for assistance and just for help. And my dad used to be asked to go out because he was like chill, he wouldn't like shout at the coaches, he wouldn't, or like shout at the kids, he wouldn't be in, he wasn't allowed to talk to me on the water, you know. I'm not talking to him on the water. Um, so he was just like sit there enjoying his day. Um so I think that was really nice. And like my mum not really knowing so much as well, meant that we it didn't consume my whole life. We would come back and maybe we'd talk about it on a Sunday evening, um, and we chit-chat a little bit about it, but it was Monday to Friday, like sailing wasn't my life when I was at school. Um, and even now we I would never like talk to them about like technique, tactics. I talk to them about my friends on the circuit who they know and like where we're going and kind of like random bits of you know, like stuff, but we don't talk about like the actual sailing. So it's quite a nice like when I go home, and especially being in Kent, and because I live in Portland now at the International Academy, it's not sailing, so it's quite a nice break from that. Um, however, it comes with a caveat that the lots of my friends had parents that knew the system and knew kind of what to do and how to do coaching, and like were members of like proper sailing clubs where there's a lot more like a youth racing kind of focus and like that it's a lot more structured. They obviously get that early step into kind of knowing what's even going on. Um, there's and I'm like super grateful for those parents because I was like friends with their children and like I got a lot from it. Um so I think it's you are advantaged and disadvantaged both ways because then their parents obviously really involved in what's going on. Um, and you can either love that or not like that. Um, and I think I've always been a bit more independent, so I've not loved that. So that's worked pretty well for me. Um, so I think yeah, you get bits where it's really, really good and bits where it's not so great, but from both perspectives.

Speaker 1 41:21

Yeah, yeah, and I I think that's that's right. And it's gonna be different for for every every family and and every person. But yeah, there's definitely some pros and and uh sadly on occasions there's definitely some uh cons to that as well. Uh right, I'm conscious of time, Molly. I don't know how many different tangents we we've managed to go on off, but uh I want to take you to another of your passions just to round off the show about you know ensuring that girls remain in sport and physical activity? It's uh it's an ongoing challenge um around the world. I mean, on your experiences, um, what you've seen, what are your thoughts on how we support young female athletes to keep, you know, stay in physical activity and sport? And who do you think is responsible for this? And if in and as part of that, we're all responsible for it. But what do you think we do need to consider as organisations, coaches, and parents, just from somebody that's been through it and is obviously living it and breathing it now at the highest levels? What are what are your thoughts on that?

Speaker 2 42:29

I so I think it's really good. Like you see a lot of stuff, everyone is pushing, everyone's recognised that this is a problem that girls are dropping out, not just in elite sport, but like in physical activity. And I think for me, it's distinguishing the two. Like elite sport is so different to like healthy lifestyles, being happy, being active. Like, I think that is so important, and I try and do quite a lot of that outside of sailing. Um, for instance, like a lot of us in the British sailing team, we play tennis quite a lot in the summer. None of us are very good at it, but we love it, and it's something fun, right? Um, so I think in terms of you say, like, who's responsible for it? I think a lot of it is we are responsible for it with our peers. And I think for me, when obviously I wasn't doing very well in sailing, and like this is going kind of back to elite school, but I loved it because I still got to see people that I enjoyed being with, and I think I have no like psychological background or like I've never really studied it, but um girls I think do a lot better when there's a group of them around and they kind of operate you go and like your friends are there and you kind of want to do well with each other. Um, I think the boys operate very differently, which is funny, and like there are obviously pros and cons of both, but I think for keeping girls in sports, it is really important that there are other girls there, but with the caveat, they can't just be there for the sake of being there, right? You've got to it's so important, I think, to try and keep a core group of girls somewhere and try and make sure that they all like a rising tide lifts all boats, right? It's like the cliche. But it does really help to have friends there. And like my sister was such a bizarre example in terms of when she did regional squad, she was the only girl for two years in her whole team. And for sailing, that sucks, right? You do residentials. So she has her own room in her own on her own in the changing room. There's no one there. So she uh she eventually like stopped sailing and carries on playing hockey because she loves the social part of it. She's very active, she now runs marathons and things like that. But you just need the group of girls there, I think, to be able to want to do that. And I'm sailing now with some girls I've been sailing with since I'm like 15. We've all stayed together, um, albeit at different, slightly different levels of our career, but we've always managed to keep that same tight group. Um, and I think what's really cool at the moment, which I think can definitely be like monopolized, is like obviously there's significant pros and cons of social media that like we're not going to get into now. But I think there's a lot more at the moment, maybe I'm just seeing it because I'm on that kind of platform, but a lot more of that kind of slow lifestyle where like wellness is prioritized, and like all these run clubs are seeing and kind of like fun physical things where it's more of a social and you kind of go to see people and you happen to be doing exercise while you're there. And I so I think like promoting things like that where there's a lot of barriers to entry in a lot of sports, say like obviously team sports, it's hard, you can't just have people arriving at disarriving, but really promoting like the social leagues of things, and like not leagues in the sense of they're competing, but like you've obviously got to sport involves like going against people, right? So you've got to like have like a really fun social tennis league would be really fun, or like a hockey league where it doesn't really matter if you're there. Hopefully you get enough people, and it's maybe only four weeks in the summer, but then at least you meet people there that you can go and do similar things with, and I think promoting that more in schools, um, and really making a focus on like pee not being like this awkward thing. I used to get so frustrated in pee that people were not taking it seriously, um, but like looking back, it's probably not really necessary with it. Um, but having that sense of fun and getting people to do the sports they want to do and just giving them freedom around that. Um, because I think there's a lot, especially in elite sport, of like quotas, you kind of have to have like four girls in this team to make it good, and that's all very well. But if they're not good enough, they're not gonna thrive in an environment where they're far behind. Like you can't learn in an environment where you're constantly stressed, constantly last, that you just don't work. So there's not much point, but it's like maybe you take a step back and do it, but then you don't just want to exclude the girls because they're girls and you want to give them space. So I think it's really hard balance, and I've probably gone round and cycled there by promoting both sides.

Speaker 1 46:46

Well, I think you've I think you've probably teed it yourself up for a return visit to talk about it a few years ago. Maybe when you've when you maybe when you've done LA we can talk about girls' sport, because I do. I think there's some brilliant bits that that you've talked about in there, and I think it's going to be an ongoing, it's an ongoing challenge. But I think the I think people like yourself, I think trailblazers, people who are are leading the way and can be seen to be doing their sport and having the attitude that you have is is really refreshing for for people to listen to. Molly, it's been uh uh an absolute pleasure having you on the podcast. We we wish you all the very best uh in the build-up to um the Olympics and everything that you're doing at the moment. Um hopefully at some point we will uh we will get to chat again. But thank you for giving up your time, sharing your journey and sharing your thoughts around how we support uh young high performers today, what what they're maybe going to need in the future.

Speaker 2 47:45

Well, thank you very much for having me. It's great to be on.

Speaker 1 47:50

Thank you. Check it out at the end of the day.