Financial Fitness and helping our young athletes thrive - 'A conversation with Kristen Cunliffe'

In this episode Founding Director 'Red Star Education' Kristen Cunliffe joins Gordon MacLelland to discuss Financial Fitness and how we can help our young athletes thrive with their finances. The recent BBC documentary 'Footballs Financial Shame'  has brought the importance of this topic back into the limelight. 

During the conversation they discuss amongst other things:

• Many athletes facing financial struggles due to poor advice, exploitation, and lack of early financial awareness.
• Documentaries 'Football’s Financial Shame' and earlier 'Football's Suicide Secret' raised concerns about the long-term effects of poor financial decisions and predatory advisers
• The importance of education being independent, without commercial agendas or selling products, to maintain trust and integrity
• Challenges for young athletes with the pressure from expectations of peers, families, and sporting organisations, the fear of making financial mistakes and a lack of basic knowledge about taxes, budgeting and saving
• The importance of parents having open, honest, and sometimes uncomfortable conversations about money, learning together with their kids rather than pretending to know it all and modelling balanced spending and saving habits
• When speaking with advisors parents trusting their instincts whilst checking qualifications, experience, and fees and avoiding any snap decisions
• Allowing our young athletes to enjoy some of their earnings, but encourage habits of setting money aside for the future

Kristen Cunliffe is the Founder Director of Red Star Education, a company dedicated to giving young athletes the knowledge and confidence to make sound financial choices. With over 22 years’ experience as a multi-award-winning financial planner, independent financial educator and certified financial coach, Kristen combines expertise with a genuine passion for education. She is a strong advocate for keeping commercial partnerships out of player care, ensuring Red Star’s sessions are always focused on support, not sales.

Transcript

Speaker 0:13

Welcome to the final episode of season six of the Parents in Sport Podcast. I'm your host, Gordon Maclelland. I'm delighted to be joined today by founding director of Red Star Education, Kristen Cunliffe. Kristen, thank you for joining us on the show. Thank you for having me. It's good to be here. Now we've got a really topical one today. We're going to talk about financial fitness and how we can help our uh young athletes thrive. And this is based on some recent stories in the press, a recent TV documentary, which we're going to dig a little bit deeper into during the episode. But Kristen, uh, before we get started, can you just tell our listeners a little bit more about yourself?

Speaker 1 0:56

Yeah, absolutely. Thank you. So I founded Red Star Education back in 2013, um, when financial education really was not the topic that it is now. Um, my professional background is as a financial planner, and that was something that I had been doing since 2001. Um, but in 2013 I did feel that there was a gap in the um in the education system, particularly within sport, um, that was meaning that I felt the advice and the support and the guidance around money and finances um was being mixed up with the idea of financial advice. Um, I'm a great believer in education, I think it's really important. Um, and so it was my intention to create um a solution that gave financial awareness, education, and well-being that was not based on an idea that somehow we would have to solicit clients or or sell services. Um, and so I'll say this, um, we started working with the Premier League, and it wasn't that easy, but without getting into too much detail, um, we started working with the Premier League, and it has since grown that we look after um a lot of the football academies, we look after the young ladies in their in their academies um and various other corporate and sporting clients, um always on the basis of financial well-being and education.

Speaker 2:40

Fantastic. I mean, uh amazing, amazing uh story and background. I think that bit about being independent, like you say, I think that was the niche as well. And I I certainly feel that with with our work that actually you're on everybody's side and your objective, there's no hidden agenda to what you talk about, and actually it puts you in a very comfortable place when you're talking in all of these places. Doesn't mean everybody has to agree with you, but there's no there's no hidden motive motives or agendas behind what you're doing. You're trying to find the best information to get out to get out to people. Now, this is on the back of uh this recent BBC documentary. Um, if you haven't seen it yet, those of you listening, it's well worth a watch. It's called Football's Financial Shame. Um, I'm sure you'll be able to find it um on iPlayer. Um, I think a lot of us were deeply moved by that. I think the thing that sort of touched me the most was thinking of these iconic players that I'd watched back in the day with all the glamour and all the glory, and just looking at sort of beaten-up versions of them now, a large part of which had been caused by some of the decisions that they made regarding their own finances at a time where they were probably earning the most. Um how did you feel watching it? What was your you know, what was your impression of it?

Speaker 1 4:16

Angry, very angry, um, very frustrated that that this is the situation even now, and I realize that that the story of um you know the the V11 and and those guys goes back a number of years, but if I can just um tell you one of the reasons that I really had this idea about um independent financial education was um on the back of another documentary that I watched in 2013 that was made by Clark Carlyle. You can find this on YouTube, um, called Football Suicide Secret. And I was devastated, to be honest, that players, and like I mean, Clark Carlyle used to play at Blackhill, which is where where I'm from, I have a season ticket, and so and I was devastated that these players um were just being given such terrible financial advice. I was a financial planner, and I was thinking, if I was in that position, I wouldn't be doing you know what's what's been going on. So I felt anger and frustrated um that this had happened um to these guys by people who had ingrained themselves into their lives, who were in a position of trust with with people who were in what I would consider to be vulnerable circumstances. Because, all right, they were grown-ups, they were they were professional players um over the age of 18, but that doesn't mean that there isn't some vulnerability there that says actually you've as a planner, as a financial planner, you've got a duty of care. And I and I just felt completely sad that that this would still um be rumbling on for those guys. Um, I mean, I could debate, which I won't do here, like whether I think HMRC are correct in their point of view. I don't. Um, but I just it just made me feel so angry and frustrated um and more determined, I think, to to speak about this topic very openly.

Speaker 6:36

Yeah, and uh, and for me, I I think that yeah, it's given it an another springboard and another push, as you say. There was the one in 2013, and then obviously the one um now. Um just this wasn't part of the uh uh I guess schedule of questions. We always go off on tangents on this. Come on. Um do you think that's still potentially going on?

Speaker 1 7:04

I know it's still going on.

Speaker 7:05

Okay, which means then it's more important that we get all this information out there and we make sure people try and do the right things. Okay, so you become massively trusted by sporting organisations around the world providing education in this space. As I touched on earlier, big part of this is you don't sell financial products, you're not pushing services, you're not just ticking boxes. Tell us why, tell us more about your ethos, but why that is so important in terms of who people are listening to.

Speaker 1 7:38

Yeah, um it's so important because if we take the example of the players from the documentary, and this could be right across the board. I mean, you only have to search, you know, on Google Sports Stars, bankruptcy, or or whatever, and you'll you'll find the the tales of it. Um they did the right thing, they went to take advice. These guys weren't just you know buying 25 Louis Vuitton handbags every week, you know, they did what they thought was was right, and they trusted people who had been welcomed into their workplace, whether that is the club welcomed them in, or the manager welcomed them in, or their agent, it doesn't matter, that's their place of work, and they had a right to expect that the people who were coming through that door were gonna do the the right thing, and um and so for us, it was always very important that what we were doing was education, and I don't believe there is room for a commercial partnership in education, we don't take sponsorship off anybody, um, we don't sponsor other things in order to get access. Um, you know, we're paid by our clients, and I'm really quite upfront about that. If you want us to deliver a workshop, fine, but you will pay me for it because I don't think education is sustainable if it isn't like that, but everybody knows where they stand. You know, that my clients know what they're paying for and what they're getting, and they also know that I won't be taking any opportunity to try to entice um athletes to be our clients because a lot of them are not even 18. And even those who are 18, I mean, I've got a 24-year-old daughter, like you know, and I love her dearly, but even at 24, there is an element of vulnerability around her when it comes to finances, and and that is very prevalent in sport, and so I think that um yeah, having trust and having integrity is absolutely paramount. It's it's the the thread that runs through all of the business city. Like I have three businesses, and um and it runs through all of them to because I think that people um both their players and their parents, when they're still young, um, deserve to be respected enough that somebody shows them a great deal of integrity.

Speaker 10:18

Yeah, I I I couldn't agree more. We are very fortunate, by the way, when I think of a lot of the organizations I go in, and of course, decisions are made, and then you can't backtrack from decisions, and there's personal agendas and there's other other motivations going on, even though they do it and all of those things. We are very fortunate, both of us, that we have found a way of being massively neutral whilst on everybody else's side, and I think we are lucky at that. I don't take that for granted at all. Um, you have a large number of conversations with young people, which is really cool because actually lots of people talk about young people, but actually never sort of see them on a daily basis. I mean, I get all kinds out of kids when I ask them questions. Um but what are what are what are some of the challenges that you're seeing in in this space that crop up the most with them? You know, what what's your sort of day-to-day look like when you're talking to to kids?

Speaker 1 11:17

Um so so when we are having conversations, obviously, so most of my conversations are around money and wealth and and what it means and all of that. Um living up to expectations is is I think a pressure on them.

Speaker 11:35

Do you think that's an expectation of their teammates or an expectation of the industry they're in, or an expectation of their families, or a combination of all of them? All of them.

Speaker 1 11:44

Okay, all of them, and I think it's an expectation they put on themselves too, you you know, um, and I think that it can be very overwhelming for them um to be in that position. Um, and one of the things, and you will have seen this, you know, there's such a pressure on them to um to learn and to know, and the amount of other professionals that that I speak to, and when they know what I do as a profession, it's oh, like they should learn this, they should learn that. And I think, oh, draw up a list, but can we just remember that these are young people? So before we start saying to them, here's a to-do list of everything you in inverted commons should learn, um, I think that we have to realise that that actually puts a bit of pressure on them. Um, if we're asking them to learn all about finance and and you know, legal things and and you know, let's think about what career you might want to have when you're 30. What, when you're 17. I mean, I realize it's important, but I think we've got to appreciate who they are today. Like who are they right now? Um, but I think a lot of them are under um pressure to live up to an expectation, particularly if their peer group, their friends at home, maybe people in their family kind of see them as the footballer, the golfer, the boxer. You know, and what is that going to mean if they are financially rewarded for those things? You know, they there's a big fear of making mistakes. Well, what if I do it wrong? What if I you know lose money? What if I spend too much? You know, and I often talk to them about being able to enjoy it for the for the time being, not spend everything that they might earn, but also to appreciate that they are young people too. Um, and I think that because of this fear, there is then a reluctance for them to trust in their own judgments. And actually, young people are smart, like they are smart. I've just done some sessions with some undernines, they were smart kids, like you know, and but I think that if they're not encouraged to voice what they're truly thinking, particularly around money, if people don't have that conversation with them, I think that they can start to feel like I'm not going to understand this, therefore I have to outsource all of those decisions, and that's part of our programme and work that we do, which is to say, you don't have to do that, I'll explain it to you in a way that you will understand because there's too many people in pinstripe suits in finance who would like them to believe that they're not smart enough to understand, and they absolutely are.

Speaker 14:32

Yeah, and and that's I mean, that's fascinating, as you say. Young people are also vulnerable, aren't they? Especially in an area where you know that we don't have any knowledge. I mean, I think a lot of us as adults struggle with finance, never never mind, never mind sort of teenagers making sense of it, and I think that that first bit of of earning money um and the support we give them. Do you think they understand the importance of budgeting, trying to put some away, or do you think, like we all did back then when I think some of the money I got paid for playing it, it certainly didn't lead to high performance in my university days. I can I can safely say that now. Um, do they consider that?

Speaker 1 15:16

Um I mean, some of them will, just like any any other young person. Some of them will, some of them won't. Yeah, you know, and I think that that's that's down to um as I say, them being young people, that their opinions are not yet formed. And let's be honest, you know, like it depends on on you know where you are, and and I realise that there's people who are probably listening whose children are not in football, they might be in something else. So, you know, they may well be getting something like the APA if they are, you know, through UK Sport and Team GB, and there might not be a huge amount of money there. You know, there's gonna be other um young people in sport who are maybe already, you know, winning tournaments, or um, you know, like we have um like we work with the PDPA, the Professional Darts Players Association, and I think that it's quite obvious that there is, you know, young people there who are earning, you know, a huge amount of money. Are they gonna go off and buy daft things with it? Yeah, yeah. Because they're young people, and that's okay, as long as there is a balance, yeah, and so I think that it's um it's asking them to understand uh what longer term means for someone who's 17, 18, 19 years of age. You know, that's not 25 years, yeah, yeah. Yeah, you know, a long time for a teenager is probably about two years. So I think it's it's understanding, you know, getting them to understand in in proportion of where they are in their life, yeah.

Speaker 16:58

Yeah, and I think it's just that it's also just that level of understanding about when you first start getting some money or or paychecks and even the tax system. I'll never forget many years ago, there's a very, very good rugby player who did play for England. I'm not gonna name him because it it this is this is a brilliant story. But he played for England, and I had the privilege of knowing him uh and being involved in the sort of early part of his uh not career but when he was a young boy. Uh, and I remember him getting his first professional contract, and I heard this story from a good friend of mine uh now who was living close by at the time, and he got his first paycheck, and on the morning of the first paycheck, he divided his salary by 12. He went running in to my friend's office and he said, What's going on here? Who's this NI? And who's this? And he he couldn't understand that he'd lost half of his deductions. Yeah. So he had to explain to it. No, you don't get you don't get you don't get it all. And then you sort of realize, but why would he have known? He'd just done school, he did he'd he'd he'd he was get he got walked out of school, got a professional contract, first put paycheck came at the beginning of the season, and it was like, Well, who's this and I taking all my money? Now, at least at least and I taking your money is better than somebody who's maybe doing it for the wrong reasons, but yeah, well you'd well yeah, you'd think, but they but this is it, and you said it, like how would you know?

Speaker 1 18:31

I mean, we do um um one of the workshops is about tax and national insurance, and it's very eye-opening for them, not me. Um and it and we have good debate about it, but it's true. How would you know? How would you know if somebody doesn't tell you that? And and we're it's a strange thing, isn't it? That if you get a contract, you know, if your contract is £2,000 a week, it would be easy to think, oh well, I've got £2,000 a week to spend. And so part of the work that we do is to say, well, actually, you know, let's have a little look at the impact of tax and national insurance, and then you can see what you are left with. And and I think it's just introducing these concepts in a way that doesn't feel overwhelming, and that's how you embed it into the psyche of a young person to think, actually, you know, I do have to think a little bit more about what's going to happen next. But I just don't think you can be too too prescriptive because then it can go the other way, yeah.

Speaker 19:34

And and going back to this idea, young people, not not because they're not bright, but maybe just a lack of knowledge, lack of understanding, they still need support. I'm getting more and more convinced, particularly with this generation, that we can't treat 18-year-olds as pure adults. As soon as they hit that day, I think we've got to go into those early 20s now. I'm just they just need a continued level of of mentoring support. Can't just be, oh, you're an adult, now sort out the world because there's too much to sort. And I think then this comes back to families and parents who play such a critical role in supporting their young people. But actually, a lot of families will also lack confidence in this area because we were probably never taught, we just worked it out, and you do your best and you scramble from month to month and you hope that the world will be alright. Yeah, how can we help the parents then? How do we encourage them to help their kids with this? Because that's what they'll always say to me. They'll say, Oh, gone, can you talk to the kids about this? It'll come far better from you than it will from me. But actually, we have got to do some stuff at home. We've probably got to do some role modelling at home, we've probably got to have some conversation. So, what what do you think that needs to look like?

Speaker 1 20:51

Um, I think it is uh, and and like can I just say now, like I am not gonna sit in an ivory tower here, right? I know how hard it is to raise kids, like you know, and I get it that not everybody um is from a background where money is something that is trusted. Um, I understand that for some people it will be completely alien to the parents, and and that you know, there could be generations of people who have not um had to deal with finance in that way, like I completely understand that. Um I think learning together is is the key, and I think it is for parents to be honest with their child and say, No, I don't know it either. But let's together find the answers, let's do that together so that the child doesn't feel um okay, so my parent doesn't know now what. Like now we're we're both uh uneducated in this particular area. Um and can I just say, like, I've got some clients who you Know have incredible careers and qualifications, but they still come for advice on their pension or their investments or whatever. Um, in my other role. So it's not about intelligence, as you say, it's just about I don't know this particular thing. But I think if parents can say, look, let's find out together, let's, you know, if we're gonna go online, if we're gonna watch videos, if we're gonna use, for example, the Red Star Education, like we have an online learning portal, like let's do that together, let's both find out. Instead of saying, Well, I don't know, and feeling, which I know some parents would would maybe feel shame and and feel guilty for not knowing. Why would you know? If it's not your job, why would you know? Um, and I think that that to say to a young person, look, you might be in the position where this is going to be an impact on your life in a way that has not impacted in my life, but I'm here to support you, so let's, you know, let's find out together. I think by researching who to listen to, I think I was about to say that's important when you say can you imagine typing in some Google searches and some of the sponsor the sponsored things we'd get at the top and you know because it would, wouldn't it?

Speaker 23:16

No, you know, it's only because we're we've become probably a little bit older not cynical, but maybe hopefully a little bit wiser. But you would and then this looks all right, but actually, yeah. So, what are some of those in terms of just some of those sources? What what where are we looking?

Speaker 1 23:33

Okay, I am gonna say probably the geekiest thing that you've ever heard, but HMRC's website is brilliant.

Speaker 23:41

Okay, yeah, it really, it really is, right? Well, it has to be, doesn't it? Really, if you think about it logically. Okay, that's brilliant. I'm not sure it's gonna be, I'm not sure if I'm going on to read it after this, but I'm gonna take your word for it. But go on.

Speaker 1 23:56

Yeah, so hmrc.gov.uk, um or yeah, gov.uk, um, you find it. The official website of HMRC is really good. Um, the Money and Pension Service, okay, so this is an arm of the UK government. Um, they have a massive amount of resources and things, guides on you know how things work and and it's kept up to date and it's all uh relevant for the for the UK. Um, because I know that you support people outside of the UK. So what I would say is if you are outside of the UK, um then find your own country's like official sources of information. Um, you know, your children might love TikTok, like you know, we do a TikTok, I get it, but if you actually want to know the correct things, then for me, the the government um sources of information are gonna be the best places, and as I said, in the UK, Money and Pension Service has got a huge amount of data on there about different topics and things like that. Clearly, Red Star Education also put out a lot of stuff.

Speaker 25:08

If you didn't say that, I was gonna do your plug for you.

Speaker 1 25:10

Ah, thank you so much. But yeah, like we do it because we also know that there's a lot of young people out there who you know are not in sport and they're not getting this education in school, and so it's part of our commitment to communities also to give out resources and information where we can for everybody to learn. But I do think that parents can just be really open to listening and listening to their child and what their point of view is and what pressures they feel that they might be under, um, especially from their peer group. And and don't feel like I don't want parents to feel bad if they don't know all of this stuff. Like it's okay, but say that you don't understand and then go and learn together.

Speaker 25:56

Yeah, brilliant. I think that's really good advice. And I I think we know from all of our work, just the encouraging of conversations, the encouraging of listening if you don't know seeking support in the right places, not listening to unsolicited advice next to you that throws you into uh a whole you know set of worries and choices that you're making. Back yourself, look after yourself, look after your family, try and do the right things. But yeah, just be open and trust your gut instincts. Yeah, I say that. I say that. Don't worry what somebody else is doing, trust your trust your gut if you know, trust your gut and believe in yourself and what's right for you, your kids, your family, and your context. So important. Absolutely, yeah, completely agree. Um, now look, most people, and and that this is the vast majority of people, looking to help create the best environments for young athletes to to thrive, both in and out of their sport. I mean, you and I see that. I think they should celebrate it a lot more, what opportunities are given to young players, rather than just the negative side of, oh well, we didn't quite make it, because they have an unbelievable week in some of these sporting environments that we see with who they get to hear talk and the different opportunities um that that we have that they have. Um, we saw in the I guess the documentary the hidden toll um it has on people when they don't feel in control of their money, and that was really sad to watch. And actually, ultimately, their impact on their mental and physical well-being, which I suppose that applies to all of us as adults when we're worried about money, it does affect your physical and and mental well-being. Does this just for you make you more determined to have an even bigger impact?

Speaker 1 27:46

Yeah, yeah, it really does. Yeah, it really does. Because I just I feel it is so important, um, and not, and as you mentioned, not from a capitalist point of view that says, oh, we've all got to, you know, have our own um wealth or anything. Because to me, wealth is not necessarily about money, it's about choices, it's about opportunity, it's about feeling um, you know, confident and secure, and that doesn't always come with a huge income. Like it's not about that, but I also think it's about um, you know, people feeling um that if they make financial decisions, that they are making them with an open mind, with their eyes wide open, that they know, you know, that they know everything about it, because I think that that's empowering. I I think where um if we're too eager to pass those responsibilities on to somebody else, you do risk that you don't know what what's gonna happen, and um, and I also think that that's giving up some of your your individual power, and I think that it's really important for us to have that and for young people especially to feel empowered in their own lives, you you know they're gonna grow up um regardless, and and do you want them to grow up feeling like that their voice is listened to, that they are respected, that they can make their own choices? I I would want that for every young person to feel like that. And I think that um when it comes to their money and the choices it can give them for the rest of their lives, I think that that's really important that they feel um empowered to do so. And the only way I believe that that can happen around finance is not to try to sell them something, yeah.

Speaker 29:39

Which I suppose then takes us on to this next bit, then, because like you say, in that documentary, there are people that are around sports clubs that that are either directly linked, indirectly linked, have ways in through different contacts, young athletes around the world get exposed to lots of different that includes me and you. You know, let's be clear about that. This is everybody they get exposed to different people, different stories, different tales, different elements of advice. I'm sure that parents, we've had a few who are have been approached by agents, who are approached by sponsors, who are approached by different people offering them services and and promising the world to them. This must be so hard because it the shining lights of Hollywood must come on, mustn't they? For people who haven't experienced it, it must be like, wow, this is amazing. So we've obviously got to just take a deep breath and as a parent and just step back for a second. What do we need to understand and consider when choosing who we decide to go with, who we decide to work with, whose product we think is gonna be beneficial to our child?

Speaker 1 31:00

Yeah, absolutely. I think um, firstly, as I said before, trust your gut instinct. I I know that there are amazing agents, solicitors, so do I think managers, you know, um financial planners. I work with them, I am in, you know, like professional networks with a lot of them, and I would trust them and recommend them. Yeah, um, because they are rooted in a very similar ethos to us. Um, you won't see them um trying to be part of somebody's uh entourage. Entourage. No, they have their office, they have their job, they know what they're doing, and they're really good at it. Um, and they will have experience and qualifications. And I think that as a parent, and and then consequently, as as um, you know, as an athlete, it's to speak to the people, not to go with the first person that walks through the door, not to think, oh, they're driving, you know, a flashy BMW and they've got a great suit, therefore they must be good. You don't know if it's all on debt. How do you know? You know idea. And what's more important is the people you're gonna work with, as your financial planner or your lawyer or whatever, like who are they? What's their experience? What um, how long have they been looking after athletes in the same position? Um, are they gonna be able to do a good job for me in my position?

Speaker 32:39

Um, I think that's key as well, isn't it, Kristen? Because I see this, because we also get an awful lot of people in the world who think they have a silver bullet to absolutely everything and jump on one end of a of a spectrum almost. And the reality, I think you've touched on something really important there. What might look right for one person in one context may not look right for somebody in another, and that they need to bear that in mind. Don't just oh yeah, don't just copy in place what somebody else is doing.

Speaker 1 33:10

No, absolutely, because there's so many things to bear in mind. I mean, sport is a truly international, you know, thing, and so we've got to look at you, you know, where are you living, where are you from? You might not even be from the UK and you might be here, but you're gonna go home, and and then you might need a tax accountant who can deal with you know cross-jurisdiction things. But there's all of these things, and sometimes I see people who've been qualified as a financial planner for six months and saying that this is what they're gonna do, and that's fine, you might build up to that. But for me, I think that as an athlete and a as a parent, you'd want to say, How long have you been doing this? What is your qualifications? What is your experience? How much are you going to charge me? And what do I get for that work? And I will tell you now, if there is any hesitation in somebody saying, This is my experience, these are my qualifications, this is my CV effectively, and these are my charges, if they can't answer those questions for me, I won't be using them because I don't know a single profession and a professional who I hold in high regard who would not answer those questions for everybody. And I think that if somebody has turned up with the contract that says you're mine for the next three years and this is how much we're charging, and sign it and sign it now, I'd be concerned because any decent professional will have that chat with you and let you go and think about it. Yeah, you know, so I think that sometimes um parents uh can feel like oh, this is the only person who's gonna help us, like there isn't. There isn't just one person, there's a lot of people, and you have got a right to speak to more than one person and and see who is gonna be the best fit for you and for your family and for your child. And if you don't like them, I mean if you just feel like I actually don't like you, don't work with them. But I think sometimes we feel that oh, you've you've got to because these are the people sat in front of you. You don't have to make that snap decision. You can speak to a lot of people and get a really good feeling about the person, um, and then go and look them up. So even when they're sat in front of you and they, you know, they might answer all your questions and have a you know a great conversation, then go and look them up. Look at their social media for their company or their business. Like there's people who will um, you know, put it out there who their clients are, and the clients might be willing to be in pictures and and endorse them and so on. That's fine for them, but if it's not fine for you, you've got to think, right, well, you know, can I ask for that not to happen? And I would prefer someone who's more discreet. You you know, your preference on the type of advice that you have is just as important as them wanting you as a client, and and I think that having more uh trust in your own judgment is you know, is is a good thing.

Speaker 36:23

Yeah, no, I I agree. I mean, there's so much information around, and and people do need to make sure they're doing their checking up on who's giving them their advice because actually, look, we all know anybody that's trying to sell us um stuff will have a number of techniques that they'll use to make you feel good, promise you the world, and and and do it. And that happens in sport, that happens in everything in every industry.

Speaker 1 36:53

I mean, the FCA have just prosecuted, I think, three influencers who were talking about investment products on TikTok and Instagram, and they're not authorized to do so. Like, you know, you uh the FCA, another brilliant website, um you can you can go on there and check the firm and check that the advice the advisor is actually registered to even give the advice that they might be giving out. And I'm sure the the law society and all of that will have you know their own kind of registers because uh just to be sure, and it's not that and I I mean I don't think anybody who is credible would be offended if if someone wanted to check those things out.

Speaker 37:35

No, and this is too important. I mean, look, there's lots of important topics in the world, but this is really too important a topic not to do um some some checks. I mean, I think the scary thing from that documentary, as you say, as well, was that people had come into the club, so they're obviously trusted, but actually, it wasn't just hidden away, they were actually shown that things were all right as well. So it wasn't like they it just all went quiet and the money disappeared. It was like, look at what you've got, this is what's going on, and then the next thing they know, it it it's it's unraveled itself.

Speaker 1 38:14

Oh, yeah, and there's I mean though it was just fraudulent, wasn't it? And and cruel and deceitful, and yeah, and and unfortunately, I think no matter how much due diligence you do on anything, you can't you can't legislate for somebody defrauding or lying or breaking the law. You can't you can't legislate for that, but you can as much as possible, you know, poke in the right direction and and hope that that you you've checked as much as you can. I think that's all you can do.

Speaker 38:52

Yeah, absolutely. Now, final question, let's uh let's round this all up because we've talked about lots of different stuff. Obviously, this is the Parents in Sport podcast. This is the last bit of input for season six before we return again in the new year. What are our uh top tips uh for helping parents in supporting their young people in this area? What are we what are we going with as a final sort of thought for people to take away?

Speaker 1 39:21

Um, I've wrote, yeah, I I thought about this. Here are my things. Be open to having difficult conversations about money. Okay, put your own feelings of ick about talking about money to one side, right? You've got to be brave and um and be really proactive in opening that conversation because if you're a family that isn't used to talking about money, um, I think as the as the parent, you're gonna have to be proactive of going to your child and saying, Hey, maybe we should talk about this. Maybe this is something that you know you're thinking about and I'm thinking about, and just be really open and honest that it might feel a bit icky, but we're gonna do it and we're gonna do it together. Um, don't judge, and I mean, don't judge them and don't judge yourself. Okay, it's all right. If you don't get it, it's okay. There's places as we've discussed where you can get some really good information from and do that together. Um, do remember that they are young people, they're gonna want to have a bit of fun, and actually, if you try to insist around money that it becomes so restrictive, unfortunately, what can happen is when they get that little bit older and they're not relying on a parent for guidance, we can start to go shopping crazy, right? And and then actually we make the situation lots lots worse. So it's almost like saying, Yes, I know you you're gonna want to buy your Louis Vuitton washbag or whatever nonsense it's gonna be, or a nice pair of trainers or all the train, whatever, you know, but like let's also balance that with whatever you're wanting to spend, let's balance that with some savings as well. Because if you say you've got to save everything, you're in danger of when when they are kind of you know free to make their own choices, that they they'll just uh take it to the extreme.

Speaker 41:25

Yeah, absolutely. Uh Kristen, what an absolute pleasure uh to have you on the uh on the Parents in Sport podcast. Really good conversation. Hopefully, um we can pick this up again uh at some point in the future. Uh thank you for all the amazing work you're doing. Um we're we're obviously in quite a few similar environments, but we're never in at the same time. So really good uh to catch up with you. Uh and we wish you all the best. Thank you for joining us.

Speaker 1 41:52

You're very welcome. Thank you for having me.

Speaker 41:55

Thank you for listening. Check us out at elementinsport.co.uk