Antiracist Parenting Podcast

E20: Learning from Children with Amira Mann Hill and Miranda Del Toro

January 06, 2022 Hannah Carney & SooJin Pate Season 2 Episode 20
Antiracist Parenting Podcast
E20: Learning from Children with Amira Mann Hill and Miranda Del Toro
Show Notes Transcript

This episode is sure to lift your spirits! Hannah is back - she and SooJin are enlightened by Miranda (daughter of Emilia Gonzalez Avalos from Episode 4) and Amira (daughter of Laura and Daren Hill from Episode 10). Every word oozes with wisdom and brilliance. With the help of these two girls, we learn how to open our hearts wider, how to be more curious, how to find our people and build community, and how to embody love. If you interact with kids at all, in any capacity - this episode is a MUST LISTEN. Kids want to know the truth, and here’s what can happen when we let go of fear and provide it. As we enter a new year - treat yourself to this huge dose of hope and inspiration!


Apple Bitez podcast, created and hosted by Amira

E20: Learning from Children with Amira Mann Hill and Miranda Del Toro

Co-hosts: SooJin Pate and Hannah Carney

Guest: Amira Mann Hill and Miranda Del Toro

Intro (music by Mike Myth Productions):

SooJin: Welcome to the Antiracist Parenting Podcast, where we're working to create an antiracist world for ourselves, our children, and future generations to come.

Hannah: We are Hannah Carney and SooJin Pate. And we're coming to you not as experts but as parents who want to share our missteps and successes in raising antiracist children. Thank you for being on this journey with us, as we work together to build a community of antiracist parents who are raising a generation of antiracist kids.

SooJin: Welcome to episode 20. This is a bonus episode that's devoted to listening, learning, and taking the lead from our children, the people who are most impacted by our parenting. And I just want to thank and give a big shout out to Deepa Iyer, who was our guest from episode 15. She had come in and talked about 9/11 and during our lightning round question, she had suggested this idea. So thank you, Deepa. And we are following up on that idea today as we bring in and have a very special conversation with two children Miranda, who is the daughter of Emilia Gonzalez Avalos and Daniel Del Toro. Emilia was our guest on episode four. And Amira, who is the daughter of Laura and Daren Hill, who were our guests on episode 10. So we'll be asking them what worked well and what didn't work so well in being raised to be antiracist. But before we bring them in, I just want to announce that we have Hannah today with us. 

Hannah: Yay! 

SooJin: Yay! We've missed you. And I'm just so glad that you're able to make it for this conversation. Just thrilled that you're able to join us. 

Hannah: Me too. Thank you so much. SooJin and all of our listeners who have helped kind of bridge this time. I really am so grateful, and I'm so excited to be back. And I know that this conversation is just going to be amazing. 

SooJin: Yeah. And we will be providing  an episode just focused solely on Hannah and what her journey has been these past few months, while she's been on hiatus to bring you all up to speed. But this episode is focused on our children.  

Hannah: Awesome.  

SooJin: I'd like to set the intention for our conversation today. And that is this: that we practice the skill of taking in feedback without receiving that feedback as a personal attack on our character or our capacity, but instead receive that feedback for what it truly is. A gift. So may we take the time to truly listen with a curious and eager heart, to really truly take in the feedback from our children so that we can be more effective as parents and caregivers. So with that, Miranda and Amira, we are so delighted, so thrilled to have you both on our show. And I was wondering, could you tell us a little bit about who you are, how old you are, what grade you're in, where you come from, and what brings you joy? 

Miranda: Hi, I'm Miranda. I'm 12 years old. I go to the City of Lakes Waldorf School, and the thing that brings me joy is seeing people at peace.

SooJin: Hmm. That's beautiful. Could you say a little bit more about what you mean by the peace part? 

Miranda: Yeah. Um, when I see people at peace, I see like they're calm.  They're listening and they have an open heart.  

SooJin: Love that. I love that definition and that visual of peace. Thank you, Miranda. Amira, what about you? Do you mind telling us a little bit about who you are? So how old you are, what grade you're in, where you come from, and what brings you joy?

Amira: I am Amira, and I am 11. I'm almost 12. I'll be 12 in a month. And I'm in sixth grade and I was born in New York. And what brings me joy is being with my family because my family is awesome. 

SooJin: That's so wonderful to hear. And I can certainly attest to how awesome your family is. I think both Hannah and I, we got to witness just how really cool your parents are when they were guests on our show. So, awesome. Thanks for that, Amira. Okay. So when I say antiracism or antiracist parenting, what comes to mind for you? Like, what does that mean to you?

Miranda: Antiracist, uh, I think it can mean like very different things to very different people. To me, it means like, not letting these people who think that skin color matters get in your head because I think we all should be equal, we're all humans, we're all people. And I think that skin color is only something that was created so it shouldn't matter. We should all just be treated the same. 

SooJin: Yeah. Yeah. Thanks for that. Miranda. What about you, Amira? 

Amira: Um, I guess,  like when you say antiracism or antiracist parenting, I think of parents who aren't racist and don't judge people by the color of their skin, teaching their kids how to do that, because being racist is not very cool. No one should be racist. 

SooJin: I agree with you, Amira. Yeah. Words to live by - being racist is not cool. So in regards to what you both shared, just in terms of what antiracism means to you, that it means treating people as if they're equal treating people, as if they're actual people as they're humans and not based on whatever - superficial - skin color that they have, um, with that said, how have your parents kind of taught you those things? What conversations or what methods or approaches worked well for you?  

Miranda: Yeah. So it was at a very early age that I learned that I was different or that I learned that people treated me different. I go to an all white school, you know, like it doesn't have a lot of people who look like me. So, fitting in was like hard, and I think the more my parents started telling me about how, like, things were going to be different, you know? Like they treat you different, they look at you different. I think that told me a lot about who people are or who people can be. So, going to the school, I learned to fit in. But that wasn't working for me. So I just decided to be myself, I was going to be me who was born in marches, protesting for life and water. And I think the more I started teaching other people that, and like being an influence on how we're not different than anyone else. They also were like, yeah, you're right.  So my friends and family started doing all this stuff in marches. And I think that my parents were a big influence on that because I mean, if they had just been like, oh yeah, just try to fit in like, be like the rest of them. Then that wouldn't have changed me in any way. 

SooJin: Wow. Miranda, there's so much wisdom in your answer there. I have a couple of questions, you know, you said that your parents kind of gave you a heads up, like, you're going to this school that's all white. There isn't going to be people who look like you. And because of that, because you look different you'll be treated differently. And so I was wondering, how did that make you feel when they were sharing that with you? 

Miranda: Well, you know it didn't really seem so important because I was so young. I was really little.

SooJin: How old were you? 

Miranda: I think I was around, well, I started the school in kindergarten. 

SooJin: Oh, so you were like around five years old. 

Miranda: Yeah. And I think once I got there, it was so weird because before I was like at home with my community. I used to go to public schools. So I would see more people who look like me, and I go to this school and I'm in a classroom - who had only one other person of color. And so I don't know if I took it seriously, but then I enter the classroom and I think, like I shrunk basically. Yeah. 

SooJin: And what was the turning point? Because you said that, you tried to fit in, but then you realized, like it's not working. How did you come to that realization?

Miranda: I think more people of color started joining my class. And I think that as a community, we started joining ourselves together and building this relationship and then pulling more people in. And not only like people of color, we were pulling everyone in, and we were like telling our stories where we come from. And then I think that all of us understood that - or my whole class, even the teachers, like everybody was understanding - how things can be difficult, but we all have to be there for each other. That’s what matters. Yeah. 

SooJin: Yeah. That's really beautiful. I was wondering too, because feel like so many insights that I'm coming to as an adult in my forties, like you're already getting at 12 years old. And so I was wondering like what was it that kind of, I don't know, if you would characterize it as courage or bravery or confidence, but what was it that gave you the sense that - you know what I'm not gonna do it their way and try to fit in, I'm going to be me. And this is who I am. What gave you that kind of confidence at 12 years old my dear? 

Miranda: I think it was the proudness of being Latina. Like I didn't want to hide because I'm very proud of my culture. I'm very proud of my family. So I think that, and the confidence mixed up and I was like, no, I'm not going to take it.

SooJin: So powerful, Miranda. Thank you. Amira, what about you? 

Amira: I feel like my parents always have said, like, it doesn't matter what other people think about you, it's like about like what you think about yourself. And I do try to do that, but it's really hard. Like, it's really hard, especially like online and stuff. If I'm playing like an online game cause sometimes people can be like really harsh, and it always felt different. Like when I lived in New York, I saw so many people of color. It was so cool. My mom has told me this story, like I was young and I was coloring on myself with a brown marker because I wanted to look like one of my teachers. And I think I don't know, I feel like I should have just embraced what I looked like then, but then again, I was like in preschool, so I don't really think that, um, I don't know. Preschoolers are like, they're very young and so they don't know as much yet.  But then when I moved to Minnesota, I was like, where's all the Black people? I did not see anyone. And even at my school, I didn't have a Black teacher until fifth grade. And it was just like a shocking realization that the world is still kind of segregated, even though there is no laws about that anymore, it's still kind of is. But then now that I go to my new school, I'm like, oh cool. There's so many more people of color at my school. I feel accepted and welcomed there. And like, I have so many good friends there, and I had good friends at my old school too. But the thing is you need to find like the right people, even if there's not that many people out there, you need to find your people and your people are the people who will stick with you through thick and thin - even if you squish their pet moth. 

SooJin: Yeah. Oh, Amira. That's so wonderful. I was wondering, like what are the qualities that you look for in other people to know that those are your people, like, when you're new to like an environment how are you able to find your people. 

Amira: I find people who have similar interests as me, like video games, art. And I find people who aren't afraid to be themselves, people who aren't afraid to be weird. Cause being weird is awesome. My people are awesome. And if any of you are listening right now, they're awesome.

SooJin: That's a wonderful, Amira. Thank you both so much for those stories and examples. So you had kind of shared some of the effective or successful kind of conversations, ways that antiracism has played out in your life. And I was wondering if you could think back to a time when a conversation or a situation didn't go so well. So it could be with any adult, like your parents, a teacher, a caregiver. If you could go back in time, what kind of feedback or advice would you have given them on how they could have been more effective in teaching you to be antiracist?

Miranda: Well, there was a time in DC where me and my friends were in a march. And I don't actually know this person, but they were yelling at us like, go back to where you came from, like, what are you fighting for? And they were yelling at our parents. They were like, why are you teaching your kids this? It's disgraceful, it's a sin. There are just so many things that are said by the world, that says no people of color should exist. They shouldn't be a thing. They shouldn't fight together. And I think by us being in a community, by us getting together like at a march to fight for freedom and the freedom that we deserve, it bothered this person. And I think the advice I would give her would be try to be more inclusive, you know? Like, don't just think about yourself, think about what other people are going through. Like, it's good to take care of yourself, but give some love to other people, you know, like spread the love. 

SooJin: Thank you so much for that, Miranda. 

Hannah: Yeah. And I hear within that, like a real invitation for people who are feeling anger in certain ways to really like, take a moment to reflect, like, where is that coming from? Like, what is that emotion telling me about myself and offering an opportunity for people to really think through, like, what is it about this March that’s rubbing something inside me. That is something that maybe I need to look at or something along those lines. So, anyway, as you were talking, I'm just feeling like as emotions are rising, it's offering us this opportunity to just pause and kind of reflect on, you know, what is it about this scenario or this situation that is kind of giving me this new information – that can help me to do the things you're talking about - to give more love to other people, to give more love to myself.  

SooJin: I also feel like there's an invitation too, not only as Hannah said to like stop and reflect - like, okay, I'm feeling rage, I'm feeling hatred. Where is that coming from? Why is that? But also an invitation to be curious about the other. Like why would people come together and fight for something like this? What about their life or what about their experiences - could make them this passionate to fight for something like this and try to consider the conditions in which other people might be living that would prompt them, motivate them to protest. And you're absolutely right, like self-care and taking care of yourself and thinking about what you need and what you want is important. But perhaps even more than that, within this context, within the context of social justice, within the context of fighting oppression is to be curious about what other people who aren't living the life you're living, what their lives might be like that would motivate them to do such a thing. 

Miranda: Yeah. 

SooJin: Yeah. Thank you for that. So Amira, what about you? 

Amira: Um, probably this time when my friend told me about something that happened in their class. So the teacher was telling everyone not to hold their pencils and a white kid was still holding their pencil and she only lightly scolded him. And then a Black kid was holding a pencil and she took his pencil away and the white kid still got this thing. Like we kind of got these awards for being good. And the white kid still got the award, even though he was holding his pencil. It's just those little things that I feel like can be impacting me. Cause like, when my friend told me about that, I had like a whole different perspective on that teacher. And, like there been times where that teacher is a good teacher and there had been good times and some bad times. And I don't know. It can even be those little things that can be like prejudiced or something. And sometimes it's like really upsetting to me. Like when I heard about George Floyd, I was like, I didn't understand, like, why would someone do that?  I just don't understand, like, there's some things like, I don't understand, like, just because of some people being prejudiced or biased, it's not okay. And it makes you feel like other people are preferring white people over Black people or people of color, even though they claim not to be racist. Like it even happens with my parents because my parents have lighter skin and stuff. And so then people just assume that they're white, including people of color, just assume that they're white. And I feel like you can't just assume about someone cause you don't really know, like there's been like situations where people would be asking my mom - where are you from? And like asking her a bunch of personal questions, and it's just not okay. 

SooJin: I was wondering like in your imagination, if you could say anything to that teacher, you know, after hearing that story, that your friend shared about that teacher and the pencils, what would you say? Or how would you have handled that situation? 

Amira: I probably would have called her out. I would probably have been like, if I was in my friend's class, I would probably be like, hey that's kind of prejudiced. I think you might have a little bit of a bias. Maybe you should also take away that kid's pencil since he was holding it.

Hannah: And I just want to say to, you know, as I think about, teachers, parents – Amira, as you described that situation, kids are paying attention and the littlest things will be picked up on whether or not we as adults are aware of it or not. Kids are noticing these things. And I also loved that you raised up, Amira, how complex it is. So you're saying this teacher sometimes is really inclusive and sometimes isn't, and so it's like so hard when you have the full complexity of being human as we all are, um, that all of these things are happening at the same time. And so, yeah. It makes it so incredibly difficult, but I love your inherent advice of like, we can't assume, like we have to get to know people, and SooJin, you started us off with the intention of being able to receive feedback and to like, I mean, if you're in the class and you say, hey, I think you have a bias for some people that's going to be real hard to take. But if we as adults can say, hey, thanks for that. Like tell me more and start to really explore how our biases are showing up. So that we can kind of reflect on that and change our behavior. I think that’s such a critical missing piece. So yeah. Thanks for that. 

SooJin: Yeah. And you know, they call them blind spots for a reason, right? Like we are blind to our own stuff. And children, as you said, are super hyper aware, they're super observant – so who better to highlight our blind spots, who better to expose our blind spots than children? So take in that information, take in that feedback and recognize - like thank you for letting me know, so I can do better. This kind of goes back to Miranda's point about like it takes a village for all of us do this work together, um, because we are complex and because we're not perfect and etcetera. So I was wondering Miranda and Amira, based on how you were raised and based on what you've been, , learning from your parents, what are the things that you want to take with you as an adult? And what are the things that you would kind of like to say goodbye to like that you probably wouldn't take with you?

Miranda: I think I will take with me the part where you tell your child at a young age that they're different, that they're not gonna be treated the same. And the part where let's build a community. I don't think I would take anything away because I mean, all of it, it's just so important to me. And that's, what's helped me grow and involve myself in all these things that are happening in the world, it gives me so much confidence to hear my parents tell me about this because there's so many kids in the world who don't even know that people of color are being killed by police or that, they're in cages on the border. So I think that bringing awareness to child it can be so much, but it can help you grow a lot.

SooJin: Thank you so much for that Miranda. In a time when so much of our society and our education is being attacked, around this kind of education, this kind of information that, you're talking about, this kind of awareness that you're talking about. It's so wonderful to hear from our children that actually this awareness, knowing that these things are happening is what gives me confidence. This awareness, knowing what's happening is what gives me a sense of power that I can do something about it. Not only myself, but that I can build something with others. Wow. That is some powerful stuff, Miranda. Thank you so much because what you're doing is you're dispelling -what adults, who are not educators, the politicians are saying that like this kind of education is harming our children. Kind of like the woman that you talked about at the protest, you know, that this kind of education that your parents bringing you to this protest is poisoning you, is a sin, you know, like you're actually proving the opposite. So thank you so much for sharing that. Amira, what about you?

Amira: When I'm an adult, I want to bring with me, like, what Miranda said. About making sure your, kid like knows about things when they're young, because they're going to need to know like when they're young because otherwise if they figure out later on, I feel like they're going to take it harder than they would as a younger kid. Because as a younger kid, they understand it, but they don't fully understand it. And also I would not want to take any like any of the hatred and stuff. Cause there's so much hatred and stuff in the world. Or just bad people in the world. I mean, there are bad people in the world, but I just would not bring with me like hatred. I would try to understand their motivations and like why they're doing it because there could be like a reason, probably not a very good reason, but there could be a reason. Cause like sometimes I'm on the computer and the news is up on the computer and I scroll through it sometimes. And all I see is like death and killings. And I just, I don't understand, like why could there be so much hate in the world? That you decide, you basically just want to take it out on other people really badly. And I don't think that's fair to anyone in just like you have to look at this world with love and joy, and I feel like everyone kind of has a path that they're going to end up taking you don't you never really know, but I feel like the choices that you make are like your destiny. I mean, you're obviously making your own choices, but you're paving the way for new opportunities as you make those choices. And when you make bad choices, it's basically, instead of going into, I'm going to do a weird metaphor instead of following the yellow brick road and ending up in the Emerald City, you end up in the wicked witch of the west’s and you smashed the yellow brick road. You just have to let your kids know about things that happen, but you also want to not tell them about too much hate and try not to hate things. I mean, it's still sometimes hard for me, to like, hate things. Like maybe hating your food. I feel like that's not as bad as like hating a person. Maybe the person is doing bad stuff, but that kind of means you're just as bad. 

SooJin: Wow. And the children will lead, the children will teach. Wow. I feel like I'm in a master class. On how to be good and how to be human and how to treat each other with kindness and love in the world. Thank you so much, Amira and Miranda. One last thing before we say goodbye, is there anything  that you'd like to share you know, suggestions or advice?

Miranda: I think that people should treat each other with kindness, treat each other with so much kindness because there's a lot of hate going on in the world right now. And the thing we need most is kindness and love because I know it's COVID time, but like air hug your friends who are going through a lot, because it can change so much in their lives. 

SooJin: I think that's really important Miranda. Especially in the time COVID when people are separated more, are isolated more, just how important it is as relational beings that there is someone there, you know, who is thinking of us, who loves us, who supports us, who cares for us. You know, an air hug doesn't sound like a big thing, but it is a big thing because of that. So thank you. What about you, Amira, anything else you'd like to say?  

Amira: Like Miranda said, you got to treat everyone with kindness, even when it's really hard and you want to roast them. Cause like sometimes like online I'll be playing like a game and someone came up to me and told me to go back to whatever South American country I came from and I was like, how are you going to judge me by the color of my skin in a game online? That's I don't know. I feel like that is not very smart. And sometimes people will call me like racist. When I am a person of color. Cause they can't really tell. So I don't necessarily blame them, but I feel like they shouldn't just assume. Cause there's not very many like skin colors in the game, and like just online people are like, you can't see me. You don't know me, but just because you are hating on someone and they don't know you, it can have an impact that’s called cyber bullying and no one should have to ever go through that because it's just not okay. Like, if you're doing like a joke and you say, okay, um, I'm sorry, it was a joke afterwards. Then that isn't as bad. But like, if you're like purposely trying to hurt someone, it can impact someone. It can cause so much. So you just have to be careful like online because they don't see you and they don't know you. So they don't really know the real you. So when you're online, I feel like you should always try to treat others with kindness and respect online. So like, even if they're being rude to you, or if you're accidentally rude to someone else, just say, sorry. Cause I know once I was kind of rude online, then I stopped because  then there was an argument in the chat and then I was like, oh no, I don't want so much hate going around. Now I feel uncomfortable. And so I just think love is the answer. 

SooJin: Wow. On that note, love is the answer. I can't think of a better ending. Yeah. That's beautiful.

Amira: Wait, I want to say something real quick. Okay, I have a podcast too. My podcast is called Apple Bitez. It's a very good podcast. Everyone should go check it out. 

SooJin: And what is Apple Bitez about? 

Amira: It's called Apple Bitez, cause it’s bits and bites of different topics. 

SooJin: Can you share, like what have been some of the topics you've covered? 

Amira: Black August, Roblox, Thomas Jefferson. 

SooJin: Wow. So cool. Can they stream it from like all the major platforms? 

Amira: Spotify and Apple Podcasts.  

SooJin: Okay. Great. There's so much goodness here for Hannah and I to digest and mull around and savor. I just can't thank you enough for the wisdom that you both provided us with today. What a treat, what an absolute treat. So thank you to you, thank you to your parents for working with us to organize this conversation. And we just want to wish you well.

Hannah: Yes. Thank you so much. It's a joy to meet both of you. 

All: Goodbye!

Hannah: Oh my, kids are amazing!

SooJin: Kids are so amazing. Wow. I'm speechless.

Hannah: Same. Oh my goodness. You had mentioned previously in one of our podcasts, I think when Lena was on, so they're actually not the first kids on our podcast. 

SooJin: Oh yeah.

Hannah: But you had said to Lena, I feel so confident and hopeful about the future, because like you're going to be leading the way. And I have that same feeling with Miranda and Amira, like the future's in good hands.

SooJin: I'm like, honestly like their development, their maturity, as it relates to like race relations, as it relates to eliminating, dispelling, mitigating, internalized oppression and racism, they are light years ahead of me. Because honestly, like a lot of the insights and the awareness that they came to, or that they shared, I just came to, and I'm in my forties. And so I think this goes to a couple of things. The importance of being intentional and deliberate in raising your children to be antiracist because I got the opposite. I had racist parents who taught me to be racist. Um, and so yeah, it took me four decades to like undo that, and you know, like I'm still undoing it. Um, and then second thing is what we've been saying on our podcast all along is that children aren't born racist. Right? So like it's the socialization year after year after year, if we don't interrupt them, then, yeah, you're going to be an adult before you get to the awarenesses that these 8, 10, 12 year-olds, already know. Oh, I just think about like how much work is saved, you know, that they don't have to go through this undoing process that you and I have been like, oh my gosh. And what they can do with all that time and energy, because they don't have to spend it on undoing.


Hannah: Right. Well, yeah. And you know, one of the pieces I was reflecting on as they were talking is about like, kids want to know the truth. Yeah. Even the hard parts. And it's not only necessarily that they do, but that the world makes more sense when you actually know the different perspectives of how people have experienced, you know, especially in this country, per se, but even the world. Um, and when you have those gaps, like kids are just filling them in with whatever. Yeah. And so then it's like this whole distorted situation. And so to be proactive, even though I think as a parent, it can be scary to be like, I'm going to be teaching my kids about police shootings, I mean, things that are like super scary. Right. And to know like, yes, it's important. And like they were saying too, like also teaching your kids that there's something you can do about it. Like it's not just, you have to take in all this horror. It's like, you actually have a lot of power to see that this doesn't continue on. 

SooJin: Yeah. think that's  one of  the biggest revelations was when Miranda was saying, you know, all this awareness is the thing that gave me the confidence, made me feel powerful, you know? Wow. Yeah.

Hannah: Yeah. Well, and I also am drawn to what Amira was saying. One of the first things she had shared was about like, it doesn't matter what other people think. It really matters what we think about ourselves and then just owning how hard that is and to have that courage, to just stick with that and be like, I'm fine just as I am, no matter what messages are coming at me from all around and to just hold to that is extraordinary.

SooJin: Yeah. I loved what Amira said about, she said like there's a lot of hatred in the world and, people do all kinds of hateful, unkind things, but her response to that wasn't to roast them. Even though that's like a natural feeling, her response to that was to try to understand their motivations, to understand why they might be doing that. And so, I put that back on us, on adults, heed that advice. You know, like so many of us are in our own kind of privileged bubbles. So many of us live in segregated worlds, segregated schools, segregated neighborhoods, segregated shopping, segregated everything, and, instead of passing judgment, be curious and ask yourself: what might be their circumstances that would motivate them, like try to understand their motivations, the people who are risking their lives, who have left everything that they have known and loved and accumulated behind to take a chance to come to the United States, you know, to take that journey, try to understand what would motivate, like what would motivate you to leave everything, you know, and love behind to risk it all? For me, like my circumstances have to be dire. Like it has to be the absolute last resort, for me to do that. And for that to be my last resort, my world has to be crumbling on all sides. Like there is no hope, but this is the only thing that gives me hope, you know, like how horrible my life would have to be. And if we thought about that - instead of all of the misinformation and the disinformation that is being disseminated about the people who are trying to take refuge in our borders. Oh my goodness. What a different world our world would be.

Hannah: Right. Totally. 

SooJin: I also loved, you know, Amira when she said - the choices that you made create your destiny. The choices you make pave the way for other opportunities that didn't exist. And so I think about like so many of my white coworkers who in the workplace chose to remain silent, because they're not taking a risk, you know, and in remaining silent, they're talking about the same things, the same issues, the same problems that they were talking about five years ago, 10 years ago, there's no change. And so what if you make a different choice, and in making a different choice, a new opportunity is birthed, a new opportunity blossoms, and a new destiny can be created. And so listen, we got to listen to these children and they truly are our teachers. They really, really are. If we follow their lead, our world would be a much better place. If the politicians will listen to our children about curriculum the education would be so much better. It would lead to the kind of emotional intelligence, the emotional, spiritual maturity that we witnessed these kids here today. 

Hannah: Yeah, I know. I totally keep coming back to that. For parents, teachers, however you interact with children, invite them to share what they're noticing about you or others around you. And listen to that with an open heart, as Miranda said, calm, listening, open heart. That's what it means to be at peace. 

SooJin: Okay. So with that said, I love what you said, because that is going to be my commitment, that I'm going to make from this conversation. So as a teacher, I'm going to instill the practice of asking my students to reveal my blind spots. Like, what are you noticing that I'm doing that is reproducing inequity, that is reproducing white supremacy, that is reproducing systems of oppression. Like what am I doing that I can't see so that I can be a better teacher? And I can't see everything, you know, so I need your help. I need your help to make me be aware. I pride myself in checking in with my students. I probably check in with my students more than most teachers do. Just like getting feedback on how the class is going. Like the course content- is it meeting your needs? Is it helping you learn? Um, my pedagogy, like the activities that we do, is it helping you learn and make these connections to the outside world? Like, I'm really diligent about that, but I have never asked for feedback along these lines. And so that is a new practice. I'm going to be instilling and I can't wait to start this new practice and like, oh my gosh, I'm going to learn so much. I'm going to learn so much about myself and I can't wait to bring those learnings back to this podcast.

Hannah: Yes. So good. Cool. Um, so I think I'm going to make the commitment. And this is kind of something that is a little bit underway, I would say. But, the school where my kids go, there has been a recent opportunity to see if there are different ways that I can help in supporting the equity efforts that are going on at their school. And so my commitment is to continue on with that and to see if there are ways as a parent, I can help further those efforts. And so that's something I'm focusing on. 

SooJin: Awesome. Great.  Well we got some good work to do. 

Hannah: Yes. And I just want to say too, when I think about Amira and Miranda and, we've had several of their parents on, we had Laura and Daren on, and then we had Miranda's mama, Emilia. I just think back to not only how much work their parents are putting into, like teach and build that awareness, but also that the way in which Miranda and Amira are showing up in this conversation are also a reflection of how open and willing their parents are to learn from them. Like, I feel like you can just tell from the way in which they're articulating and describing kind of the work is like, I can feel from them like this reciprocity in that parenting relationship where it's, it's not child centered, it's not parent centered, but there's like this focus on sort of like the back and forth and the relationship between and so...

SooJin: It’s very collaborative.

Hannah: Yeah. And having like that mutual respect. I don't know. I just really felt that from the two of them. And I feel like as a parent myself, and for others who interact with children regularly, or at all in any capacity, like to really be mindful of the dynamics of like, how much of it is like you giving them information versus like, what are you then opening up yourself to, as far as what's like coming from their experience in the world?

SooJin: I think that's a really good observation. And a true testament to the incredible parenting that Emilia and Daniel and Laura and Daren are doing. Because like they had no fear in providing suggestions and advice. Right? Like they weren't hesitant at all. So obviously they are in a relationship with adults around them where that kind of exchange is normalized.

Hannah: Totally.

Yeah. Oh, I just, I also want to say like how incredible these human beings are and like how incredible their parents are. Wow. That's what you produce. Like when you are as intentional and deliberate and informed and conscious as the Emilia's of the world, as the Daniels and the Laura's and the Daren's of the world, this is the outcome you can get. And honestly, I really do believe, like they're trying to preserve, they're working to preserve that innate goodness, that innate love, that innate sense of justice and fairness, that we are all born with. And huge kudos to them because they have, I mean, what we witnessed today was wisdom after wisdom, brilliance after brilliance, just oozing out of these little bodies.

Hannah: Yeah. Amazing. 

SooJin: And, that didn't come from nowhere. 

Hannah: Yeah, right. 

SooJin: So big, big, huge, thank you to the parents for helping to create these beings because it's precisely these children that are going to not only save humanity, but also save planet Earth. Miranda started, she started with saying, I grew up as a child protesting for life for water. She's been fighting for that since she was three, well, since a baby, because Emilia had shared, like they'd been taking her to protests since she was a baby. So, this is what we get is just like this incredibly conscious, aware, confident, powerful girl, woman. 

Hannah: Well, what an awesome conversation. First of all, it feels good to be back.

SooJin: It's really, really wonderful to have you here. 

Hannah: And the last one I was on was with Deepa, who brought up this idea to bring in kids. So I just feel like in this will probably air around the new year. So like to kick off the new year with such incredibly deep wisdom from Miranda and Amira is just thrilling and gives me so much hope. 

SooJin: Yeah. It's really, really wonderful to be able to have this debrief with you to be able to process all this with you. Like I was doing it with our listeners, and I thank them for stepping in.

Hannah: Thank you, listeners! You all helped me get through a really hard time. So I'm so appreciative of all of you. 

SooJin: Yeah. It's really wonderful to have you here. And, we'll be spending a little bit more time sharing about like, what you haven't been doing, you know, while you've been away, to kind of get our listeners up to speed. Well, happy holidays to you all. We hope that it is a safe and healthy and anti-racist one. And, please do heed the teachings that our dear, beloved, cherished children are providing us with today on our episode and make your own commitment. For the new year along those lines.

Hannah: Yes. 

All: Bye.

SooJin: We just want to say thank you for joining us today. You can find more information about us and past episodes on our website A big shout out to Mike Myth Productions for the intro and outro music.

Hannah: This work requires us to challenge ourselves and take care of ourselves. Be well.

SooJin: Be antiracist.