In this episode Joe and Nick interview Marius about his experience being a hydroponic store manager. Chicago Roots is Chicagolands premier horticulture supplier specializing in indoor, hydroponic, and organic gardening.
More about Marius:
Website: https://www.chicagoroots.com/
More about Joe Swartz:
Website: https://amhydro.com/
Twitter: https://twitter.com/HydroConsultant
More about Nick Greens:
Website: https://www.nickgreens.com
Twitter: https://twitter.com/InfoGreens
In this episode Joe and Nick interview Marius about his experience being a hydroponic store manager. Chicago Roots is Chicagolands premier horticulture supplier specializing in indoor, hydroponic, and organic gardening.
More about Marius:
Website: https://www.chicagoroots.com/
More about Joe Swartz:
Website: https://amhydro.com/
Twitter: https://twitter.com/HydroConsultant
More about Nick Greens:
Website: https://www.nickgreens.com
Twitter: https://twitter.com/InfoGreens
Polygreens Podcast Episode 60
[00:00:00] Joe Swartz: Hey, thanks for joining us. I just wanna make sure I get your name is Marius.
[00:00:03] Marius Berman: Yup. You got it, sir.
[00:00:06] Joe Swartz: And you're with Chicago roots, organic.
[00:00:09] Marius Berman: Yeah, we just, uh, we actually just opened up our second location, uh, over here off of 31st street in Wentworth. It's actually been pretty busy over here. Unfortunately, I was, I was trying to help some customers out before I got in here with the guy that same location, man, basically last year before all this, all this two years ago, actually now, before all this stuff started, we, we decided we wanted to get back into the air.
[00:00:36] Uh, and because this store is so big and it's in a really good place for, I mean, honestly, the industry, there's a lot of growth, uh, kind of in the area and stuff like that,
[00:00:45] Nick Greens: deliveries to your right off the
[00:00:47] Marius Berman: way right there. It's super easy, super accessible. And the store is actually bigger. We have a lot more room to do stuff.
[00:00:55] Well, we plan on doing at some point in time as the initial goal with this place [00:01:00] is actually to make it more of an event space. Um, because you know, a lot of people in the industry are having a hard time finding a place where they can get a good, decent amount of people to get. Um, and, and just kind of like either have kind of forums classes, um, just kind of get together as, you know, seed swats, clone, slops, whatever.
[00:01:19] And, um, the pandemic kind of put a little, uh, kind of hinder on that, unfortunately. So, uh, we, we were, we weren't even in here, there was nothing going on in here for awhile. And then we, we decided that, you know what, maybe we should, we should offer, you know, kind of what we do up north, uh, to the people down in the south area.
[00:01:37] And we have a lot of customers down there. Um, a lot of customers and we just didn't know it. Uh, there's a lot of people who live in the area, uh, and it's kind of a hard thing to get to the north side in the middle of the day, the traffic and all that kind of stuff. So, uh, it's definitely really good for us.
[00:01:53] It's helping us a lot and it's obviously helping the community too. So
[00:01:57] Nick Greens: it's in Bridgeport, dude. Come
[00:01:59] Marius Berman: on. [00:02:00] You've got the plant right down the street. You've got. Uh, you know, uh, Garfield produce is like west of us, but it's only like 10 or 15 minutes. It's almost too easy for those guys now to kind of get over to us and ask us
[00:02:15] Nick Greens: to do a microgreens, uh, thing and I'll come
[00:02:18] Marius Berman: by and teach them.
[00:02:19] I think our customers would love that. Obviously you guys were aware that the micro grains industry is popping and not even just commercial microgreens, but a lot of people are doing small kind of rack style setups in their houses. And it's something that like a lot of people. Have the ability to do, they've got this space for it.
[00:02:42] Uh, it's just a matter of getting all those things together. It can be kind of overwhelming.
[00:02:47] Nick Greens: The light coming into the space is ridiculous. You know what I'm talking about?
[00:02:51] Marius Berman: Oh yeah, absolutely. And you know, I think the most intimidating thing is walking into a store like. It's not knowing where to start, but we, because we [00:03:00] have people like yourself, who've been working with us for a long time, uh, who, who have kind of showed us the way, you know, we've been very open-minded about things.
[00:03:09] We try to listen to as much input from people as possible because everybody's got different ways of going about this stuff. Uh, I think it's something. Uh, once you come in, you talk to us for a second. Uh, we kind of lay some things out for people, make it a little bit easier to make it a little more palatable, try not to overwhelm them too much with the details and just get their feet wet.
[00:03:31] And once people start doing it, it's a lot easier for them to, to get more comfortable and maybe start getting into the more advanced. Automated type of things. Automation's a big thing right now is
[00:03:43] Nick Greens: your cell phone, right? People want to control.
[00:03:45] Marius Berman: People want to be able to see it. Like, you know, there's a lot of systems out there, the troll master, Inc bird, all these other systems that connect to your internet, allow for you to connect to their app and then be able to do pretty much [00:04:00] anything you need to do from the other side of the world.
[00:04:02] As long as you've got internet access, you know, and, uh, automation is another thing. Uh, I think intimidates people, but once they realize how easy it is and how affordable it is, they realize that there's more of a benefit than just the cost. It's the time that they're spending in their spaces. So they can focus on way more important things like, uh, IPMs, or maybe even dialing in their plants where they're creating SOP.
[00:04:30] For each specific variety and driving them to the utmost potential. So getting the best yields they can get, uh, while also
[00:04:37] Nick Greens: not one size don't fit off.
[00:04:41] Marius Berman: Oh, uh, I don't know, is that how people are treat all this stuff out here?
[00:04:47] Nick Greens: We got some people in the industry trying to preach that. There's a one size fit all method and trying to disprove that is why this podcast was born.
[00:04:58] Marius Berman: Yeah. Interesting. [00:05:00] That's
[00:05:00] Joe Swartz: actually the only one and that's it. And anything else is wrong.
[00:05:04] Marius Berman: Well, and this is the thing about that is you can talk to 10 different growers in all 10 of them are going to have a different approach and they all might have very similar end results. Uh, but the problem is, is that just that alone, just that example alone gives you an idea of the fact that it isn't also a one size fits all.
[00:05:25] And that's why you have so many nutrient companies, so many different types of growing systems, and they all do the same thing. They're all providing an MPK when it comes to nutrients and your, your ma your microbiome. And then when it comes to the growing system, it's just the means of water delivery.
[00:05:40] Right. And everybody has a different way of getting that water. So their plants and mitigating the issues that they might be dealing with when it comes to pH,
[00:05:48] Nick Greens: it's still got the hand feeders, right? The people that like swear on
[00:05:52] Marius Berman: by hand and you know, what the thing is, is I'm not against those kind of guys.
[00:05:57] Right. And although I preached the [00:06:00] automation, uh, the thing is a lot of. Who hand water. They wholeheartedly believe that, uh, you know, they can give their plants exactly what they need when they need it. And they think they know exactly when that time is. And some of these guys do other people do not. And you know, and that's why it's, it's, it's something that I feel like the better growers are the ones that are constantly evolving and trying to improve on their systems, you know?
[00:06:26] Joe Swartz: Oh, so we've been really rolling already. Um, so I'm sorry. So in our last episode, we were talking about hydroponic stores and small scale, uh, growing. And we are lucky today to have Mr. Maurice Berman, uh, of the Chicago roots, organic hydroponic star. And, uh, Marinez, we really appreciate you being here, uh, my first chance to meet you.
[00:06:47] And obviously you've got a lot of really cool and great information to share with us. So again, apologies for the quick jump right in. But thanks for being amorous. Tell us a little bit about yourself, how you got into this industry, how you got to [00:07:00] where you are and, uh, we'll, uh, we'll up.
[00:07:02] Marius Berman: So I'm not gonna lie.
[00:07:04] I was kind of joked. I wasn't even joking. I was getting very serious, Nick yesterday. I'm not gonna lie. I feel very under-qualified compared to the rest of the year guests out here, because really at the end of the day, I come from a background of, of being around plants as a young kid and having a garden and stuff like that.
[00:07:22] Uh, I went to school for psych, um, and, and then. Really, what would, what kind of expelled me into this industry is I became a customer of Tommy. Who's the owner of Chicago roots. And, uh, I've been working with him for the past 10 years. And, uh, it's been a really interesting ride. We, uh, we've I mean, I've, I've known Nick for almost as long as that.
[00:07:47] Uh,
[00:07:49] Nick Greens: I mean, he's a great friend. I can imagine
[00:07:52] Marius Berman: easy guy to work with. He's a good dude. I'm not going to lie. He's out there right now handling the, the front of the store, uh, just taking care of [00:08:00] our customers. And, uh, I'll be out us. I wouldn't be with him if, uh, if it wasn't so easy to work with him and I are like brothers and, uh, you know, we've, we've been through the struggles, this, you know, this industry as an app, pretty much everybody knows it's it's it has not been.
[00:08:17] Anything of what it is like it is today and it's rapidly right now. It is, it is. And it's, it hasn't been easy. And I know that a lot of, a lot, a lot, a lot, a lot of customers and guests of yours, actually that I know personally. Um, have had their ups and downs and their trials and tribulations. This is not an easy business.
[00:08:38] And, uh, it's something that I've had. The fortunate I've been on the, uh, I've been on the easy side of it. I'm on the side, I'm selling the picks and shovels to the gold miners, the gold miners, AKA the growers. They have the hardest jobs and, uh, nothing is the same ever day in and day out. And I'm lucky. She hasn't been around all these people, making the mistakes that [00:09:00] they've made and the successes as well.
[00:09:03] But the biggest thing is the mistakes. People have to make mistakes to get better. And I feel like I've been able to learn from all those people over the years and having an open mind and I think is what's helped me a lot too. Um, I try to be as a kind of diverse in my knowledge as possible. I try not to discount anybody.
[00:09:20] Uh, even if it's something that I might not agree with, it is something that I observed and I take it. And allow for people to kind of share their information as much as that might be something I completely disagree with. No, you
[00:09:34] Nick Greens: selling the picks and the shovels and stuff like that. Are you also a harm home
[00:09:40] Marius Berman: grower?
[00:09:41] Uh, you, you can say tomatoes, are you going to make? I I've had some pretty, uh, so I used to do a lot of succulents. So, uh, so I w I wouldn't say rare succulents, but succulent. Chickson hands and things like that. Whore Thea's [00:10:00] aloes, uh, that was something that we were doing a lot of. I mean, I had usually at any point in time, I had three or 500 types of those plants that I was kind of just shuffling around, keeping them, uh, you know, I, the, the easiest way for me to find a cool plant was to buy a lot of plants and then, you know, pick and choose what I liked.
[00:10:18] Uh, and like, that's kind of my more like, Conventional style growing. Uh, I do a lot of outdoor vegetable garden stuff. Uh, and then, you know, over the years I have dabbled in the, uh, the cannabis as well. Uh, you could say I've, I've had hands-on experience with, with stuff that, uh, you know, your typical house plants and then also, uh, some of them were fun plants as well
[00:10:45] Nick Greens: for you as a grower, is it.
[00:10:49] Marius Berman: Okay, man, I'm not lie. Um, I'm a hydro guy falling through, but I have a pretty decent knowledge with soil. I've been, [00:11:00] I've been building soils for a long time. Well, before all these new soils, these living organic soils have been out. Um, you know, I was doing the clack and Ms. Coots mixes and this sub cool mix and stuff like that.
[00:11:11] And, uh, and actually the reason that it kind of brought me into Tommy's store initially was because he was the only person in the Chicago land area who actually carried, uh, inputs for soil building. Um, and he had a good array of it too. And, you know, honestly ever since over, I would say over the past three or four years, there's a lot more of those types of products that are becoming available to the, just the end user.
[00:11:35] Which it wasn't like that before. And the other thing too, is all the new soils that are out there are all these soils. And I was pretty much building on my own stressing out about, you know, sourcing all these different types of products. Uh, and now they're all in one bag and it makes it super easy for people to get into this, you know, heavy duty, you know, uh, living organic notes hill, um, like.
[00:11:59] [00:12:00] Well, so that's the thing is happy. Frog is your conventional style soil. Nowadays you've got soils that will feed your plant for twice as long as happy frog. So it gives you less control, but it allows for you to kind of buy time to before you've figured out kind of what, what else you've got going on?
[00:12:19] Um, you know, happy frog ocean forest roots are getting. Those are all kind of the more conventional three to four week feeding type soils. Now you've got things like MPS. Build a soils 3.0 a Detroit nutrient companies, great lake water. Only. Those are mixes that are going to feed for six to eight weeks.
[00:12:38] You can start seeds in the water, only the DNC that we call it, um, which you can't normally do in a lot of living soils. A lot of living slows. You kind of either ease the plants into, um, but all of that stuff is already mixed and perfectly balanced and composted for a long time. Whereas, I mean, no kidding.
[00:12:58] I mean, those companies have been around for a while, [00:13:00] but we didn't have the access like we do nowadays. So there's a lot, it's a lot easier for people to get into, to growing, uh, whether it's organics, which is kind of where I've been pushing people nowadays, even though I'm a hardcore or a hydro guy, uh, you know, I'm a, I'm a cocoa drain to waste top feed, mostly salt kinda guy.
[00:13:21] Uh, but I'll tell you what if, if I were doing. Somebody gave me a million dollars today. I'd probably be doing, living organic soil, uh, with, uh, you know, predator, uh, insects and, uh, no till big beds. That that's probably what I would get into nowadays. So
[00:13:41] Joe Swartz: you're focused on the growing and how you do it. It's just the tools that you're using those picks and shovels.
[00:13:47] Nick Greens: He had told you he's knowledgeable. He's not just a sales rep.
[00:13:50] Marius Berman: No. I don't sell. That's not my game. And you know,
[00:13:56] Joe Swartz: all your stuff, you really know
[00:13:58] Marius Berman: what you're talking about. I'm [00:14:00] very hands-on and you know what, the best advice I could give to anybody who wants to get into hydro stores or stuff like that are selling the picks and shovels is user products that you're selling.
[00:14:11] That's the best thing you can do. And, and, and, and listen to the people when people come in and they're asking for a product, if you've had 10 people come in looking for that product, there's probably something behind it. And, you know, um, the thing that I pride myself on is letting people leave here without buying something, because I'd rather them get what they actually need.
[00:14:32] And nine times out of 10, they've already got it sitting on the shelf. They just think they need something else. Yeah. They just need a
[00:14:38] Joe Swartz: little more of the knowledge or the information, or there's someone else's
[00:14:41] Marius Berman: experience to kind of get that. And you know what, I wouldn't even say it's even the knowledge right now.
[00:14:48] I think people come in just for a little bit of like a confidence boost. They just want to know that what they're doing is the right. Uh, and I think that's what we're really good at doing [00:15:00] here is, is when people come in and they have questions and they don't know what direction they're going, as long as they give us, give us something, you know, any type of directions.
[00:15:10] So if somebody comes in and they tell me, uh, you know, I want to start growing and they haven't done any research at all, it makes my job really hard. I can still do my job. But I like for people to develop their own knowledge base before this are asking questions, because then I can be specific about my answers and I can really, really guide them in a direction that's proper for them not everybody's situation's the same.
[00:15:33] And that's, that's a good and bad thing is there's a lot of variation. None of this is a perfect science and, and you can do what you want. And as long as you're comfortable doing it. And the thing is, is a lot of people, they just need to instill confidence in their process. So they come in, they ask me a question, they already know the answer.
[00:15:55] They just want to know that there there's a reassurance there, you know, [00:16:00]
[00:16:00] Joe Swartz: In our last episode, Nick and I were talking about home, home growing and the hydroponic stores and whatever, sometimes under utilized resource they are. And a lot of that is because of the community. So, so, and you just really alluded to that and kind of touched on that is that you've got someone coming in now, whether this is a new person with no experience in knowledge whatsoever.
[00:16:21] Or someone who's growing who may either need some confidence, need a different product, needs, some guidance need, whatever, but they're coming in, they're talking to you, they're talking to people at the store. How do you see that working as far as kind of building that little community? I mean, it kind of.
[00:16:36] Well, I hate to use the term organically, but it just organically kind of grows up, but that's a real valuable piece that we don't see in the commercial industry nearly as
[00:16:45] Marius Berman: much. No. And you know what, I don't know if there's any, like, there's one single answer for that question because you know what I've been seeing a lot more now, which is really good, is like the [00:17:00] Facebook groups, uh, So like, I, I wouldn't say telegram so much, but some of the social media kind of forums, I mean, when me and Nick were coming in.
[00:17:10] Uh, the only information that you can get was from books that were cut out dated or forums, and the forums have kind of shifted to Instagram and stuff like that. And your Facebook groups where there's that community. But when it comes to commercial stuff, I feel like there's still a big hole. There's a huge hole.
[00:17:29] And I feel like it's. The network is splintering because everybody has kind of a different idea of what they want, you know, and everybody wants to
[00:17:37] Nick Greens: discover the new technology. I think that's driving.
[00:17:42] Marius Berman: So don't do the new technology on a large scale, you know, that kills these companies. As people get into stuff they want to reinvent the wheel.
[00:17:50] And they want to make money at the same time. You can't do that. It doesn't work that way. You've got to figure out what is going on first. Perfect. That [00:18:00] science, and then you can start screwing around with it. And I think like, I don't even know. I feel like most of the businesses that don't success in this industry, that's exactly what they're doing.
[00:18:12] There's
[00:18:12] Nick Greens: LEDs. Are you led or HPS lighting if they tell you to do commercial
[00:18:17] Marius Berman: led. LED's all good. And, and Nick, if you asked me that question a year ago, it would have been completely different. It would have been no. Then it would have been no, your performance,
[00:18:28] Nick Greens: how they're performing now. Right. We
[00:18:30] Marius Berman: performed a lot better.
[00:18:32] And then also it's, it's the way. So even the old LEDs are putting out a lot of heat. I mean, they were still very warm units. Uh, the led is nowadays. There are billed properly. They're not driving their led diodes, uh, aggressively enough to produce so much heat. So these units are able to last a lot longer, but also this factor of man, you can't beat the spectrum that comes out of these LEDs as well.
[00:18:57] It's way more balanced. You can buy [00:19:00] one light and from start to finish, doesn't matter what you're growing. You'll be able to have stock. Well, like, well, vegetative, well badged plants. And then when it comes to blooming, you'll get the flowers that you're looking for. You'll get the penetration that you're looking for.
[00:19:16] Um, you know, with HPS is even, even the strong Des mounted, super high above your canopy, you know, under 18 inches. 22 to 24, depending on the varieties. You're not getting anything, uh, with the LEDs from top to bottom. Uh, although I still recommend lollipopping and stuff like that and sharing back some of those lower leaves, um, from top to bottom, you're getting dense materials.
[00:19:41] It also is marketable. So a lot of times when you're going HPS, is those lower parts of the plant.
[00:19:47] Nick Greens: They might involve pruning techniques by the way, right? Oh yeah. Just like a tomato grower. Just like
[00:19:55] Marius Berman: Nick, what I'm thinking is, uh, we'll, we'll probably have to get, get [00:20:00] me back out here later down the road, and I'll get into specifics for you guys.
[00:20:04] And I know that's probably what a lot of people have questions about and, and I'll tell you. Uh, we're aware of that on our end. And as a store, we plan on trying to bring that more to people as well. Uh, there's a lot of stuff that I feel like people skip over because they don't think it's important, but if you're a brand new grower and you've got no one showing you or scaffolding, scaffolding through this stuff, You're not going to know what to do.
[00:20:29] And I feel like we've had the experience we've, we've screwed up enough ourselves and we've seen enough people screw up that we'll, we'll be able to start producing content to kind of help people with that kind of stuff. Uh, believe it or not. Uh, later on this day today, we're going to build out a display room, uh, with, with an led.
[00:20:50] Uh, automated sub-irrigated planting system. Uh, we're going to have, you know, a troll master set up, which is just an environmental controller that you can also [00:21:00] use your phone with. Um, and we realized that that's what people are looking for. So we're going to start, we're going to start bringing that to you guys.
[00:21:08] And I feel like there's that little gap that can be filled. You've got the content, but then also the technical technicalities of all this stuff as well.
[00:21:19] Joe Swartz: Well, you know, and that's really awesome. And various touching a couple of really important things. This is kind of the, the, the, the time for the rewind button.
[00:21:27] So that got
[00:21:31] Marius Berman: really fast, man. I'm sorry.
[00:21:34] Joe Swartz: Rewind moment. And we have a rewind moment. It's because you touched on one or many things and in this case, many things. That were, are very, very important that I want people to hear encouraging
[00:21:47] Nick Greens: people, to keep listening to it, to understand what you were saying. You were talking fast,
[00:21:53] Joe Swartz: talking fast is that that's the nature of our business.
[00:21:56] So if we're not talking fast, then we're doing [00:22:00] something wrong. But so one of the things that he said is, uh, talking about technological advancements. And again, regardless of whether we're talking about, you know, on a, on a large scale, moving something before. Is that they always need to be performance-based.
[00:22:15] So, as he's talking about the led lighting, he's talking about, you know, performance metrics that are measurable, that are, uh, tangible the, the concept in our industry because we've become so technologically heavy sometimes is that someone comes up with a new design or a new paradigm. This is the, this is the right way to grow.
[00:22:35] We were joking at the beginning of the segment about, uh, this is the, my way my system is the only way to grow. And even if you're, you're doing research, we're going to build these new indoor, vertical building, uh, growing systems. You know, you, you didn't just figure out a new way to innovate food production.
[00:22:53] Now you may be producing, uh, you may be, um, uh, conducting a lot of research and looking to develop that. That's [00:23:00] awesome, but you can't go forward. Without some level of performance I'm I'm, you know, the, the concept of, uh, to, to Maurice has points regarding the lighting performance, but this could be the systems.
[00:23:13] This could be growing supplies. This could be methodology. See genetics is that there, it has to be grounded in actual, on the ground performance, even if it's a smaller. Or if it's in a short term, but there needs to be some metrics of performance before you, you, you stamp the blue ribbon on that system or that a technology and an anointed as kind of the new way to grow because we've been growing for thousands of years and our technologies and our practices have evolved, but the water
[00:23:43] Nick Greens: we've been growing for thousands of years.
[00:23:46] Joe Swartz: But all the changes, all the improvements, all the developments from the beginning of time, till today, have all come based on performance. And we've seen probably more technology and more, uh, production methodology [00:24:00] that's gone away because it did not perform the way it's supposed to. And it's and the, the, the real advancements, it kind of where we, we, we shave away what doesn't work.
[00:24:10] Bruce Lee always talked about absorb what is useful and discard, what is not. And that's a really important part. And Mario has really sounds like he, the basis of his work is that because he's working on the ground with people, he's providing them valuable information. And to his point that it's a lot of, a lot of the screw up.
[00:24:31] Where that valuable information is. And that is by myself included. Most of what I tell people that, that, that helps them is based on either a major mistake of my own or a major mistake that I've learned from someone else. Very valuable. So please listen again to what he had said, and that's very true.
[00:24:50] And so, as we're moving forward, we talked earlier about the communities that, you know, people coming in, everyone's sharing ideas, everyone's bringing something to the table, [00:25:00] obviously, despite your, your humility in saying you don't feel like you have a lot of experience, you clearly do, and you clearly have a lot of knowledge based on your own experience.
[00:25:10] I love your point about. Making sure when you're selling something, you've used it, you understand the performance metrics, you understand what does and does not work, but also to your you're on a daily basis, you're interacting with people far more knowledgeable than you, and far less knowledgeable than you.
[00:25:27] And they're all bringing stuff. And you're, you're, you're putting that in the memory banks and you're using, you know, what, uh,
[00:25:34] Nick Greens: you should start charging per hour when they're taking your time up. Uh, cause it sounds like you're consulting, you're just a consultant like non-pain consultant,
[00:25:45] Marius Berman: you know, you know, I wouldn't, I wouldn't continue to do that if Tommy didn't take care of me so well, but know what, what I, uh, had been telling people.
[00:25:56] Well, I, I think that needs to be created, whether it's me or somebody [00:26:00] else is just some type of way of having a direct contact with someone, you know, maybe maybe five, you know, have a bundle 20 questions for X amount of dollars. And then I think it would deter people from, uh, just kind of wasting, uh, like valuable questions because I feel.
[00:26:19] There's really, really, really good questions that people can ask. And then there's questions that people ask let's do it like a
[00:26:24] Nick Greens: tollway system. They just give it, you
[00:26:27] Marius Berman: know. Great. Yeah. And you know, I was gonna ask, like, what is it that you guys see on your end when it comes to the homegrown. Where's the disconnect with them.
[00:26:39] Uh, and, and, and, and maybe are there reservations for people to even get to get into this? Is there, is there something that stands out to you guys when it comes to that?
[00:26:50] Joe Swartz: Well, uh, from my standpoint, um, the, the information and, uh, I don't want to say lack of information. I think it's an abundance of overabundance.
[00:26:59] It [00:27:00] that's not necessarily credible or that's hard to weed through the online. Uh, the information that's online is super valuable. Uh, but it's a double-edged sword. It's also super difficult. I think if more people came in and talked to people like you who know the products who know the process, who can share your successes and your failures, I think that.
[00:27:23] Infinitely more valuable and also more user-friendly then on these forums, social media, you know, gosh, almost every day on LinkedIn or somewhere else, you know, I'm posting something or someone else's posting something where people get into this, you know, ridiculous back and forth. Again, my methods, my technologies, et cetera.
[00:27:43] I mean, we do not understand, especially in a commercial. What re what really works. And a lot of the ridiculousness of some of the crazy systems and some of the obscene investments that go into ineffective farming technologies, but really the [00:28:00] grassroots. Uh, and again, this is where you're on. The front line is the grassroots community, the information sharing the humanity has been taken out.
[00:28:09] And that's one of the things is. I have one commercial farmer. Um, I can talk to any of my neighbors down the road. If I'm having a challenge with something and they can share their experiences and we can talk and someone always goes, oh, you know what? I can't help you, but so-and-so can help you. And that's very different than an online.
[00:28:30] Experience for the most part. Sometimes there's some communities that are great, but, but, but really, yeah, what we have seen is so much information out there weeding through what's good and not is a, is a huge challenge. And I think what you do is such an amazing service to the industry, but to also to people, because we talked in the last segment about the, the.
[00:28:53] Kind of the, the, um, the under utilized or under appreciated home growing and home hobby, uh, [00:29:00] community. And, and sometimes when you talk about the, you know, use the term home hobby or home growing, it's not meant to diminish it in any way, because sometimes people look at it that way, but these are human beings who are learning to grow and growing for their own use and all that.
[00:29:16] And, and having access to people like you. Is infinitely. I would rather talk to you for 10 minutes, then spend six months online, trying to sort out
[00:29:27] Marius Berman: stuff,
[00:29:28] Nick Greens: uh, consultant $40,000 Joe,
[00:29:30] Marius Berman: for there you go. So you know what I was thinking, and it's something that we deal with too, is. A lot of the information is good, but the information doesn't always apply you'll have, I'll have a customer he'll come in.
[00:29:47] He's an organic grower, like staunch organic grower, and he'll, he'll grab something off the shelf from advanced nutrients and he'll say, you know, so-and-so online. So this is. And I go, Hey man, you've [00:30:00] already got something that covers that base. I love this value. Some, you know, some advanced nutrients, it's a decent product.
[00:30:06] It's great people like it, but it's not what you need. And the thing is, is you've got people who are coming from a good place, but they need to start asking more questions. And I think that's the biggest thing is, um, you know, I think the same. It's talk 20% of the time, listen to the rest of the 80. And I feel like that's something that people should start doing more, not just in this industry and not just on my side of the counter, but even as a costumer, uh, do you know, asking questions that, um, get to the core of things and are more specific, you know, It's something as simple as like, what should my pH be?
[00:30:44] You know
[00:30:44] Nick Greens: what, I bet you, you making better margin on the vans, nutrients to voids. He avoids a sale on better margins, Joe, because he wants to be honest, you know,
[00:30:57] Marius Berman: I get it a lot. And the [00:31:00] problem is, is. Um, I have to build trust with these, with these customers. It's not something, uh, that, you know, people walk in and they're comfortable just, just going into, and it's, it's me kind of breaking down that barrier.
[00:31:15] I always call them they're, they're a peanut M and M's there, you know, or just regular Eminem's, there's hard on the outside, but once you get through that outer shell, Everybody kind of softens up and, and it's a little bit easier to work with people, but it's getting past that point in trading that trust with people.
[00:31:30] And, and I feel like, uh, one of the things that we do here a lot is we have relationships with people. I I'd like to joke around and say that I know more about some of these guys than their significant others. And I think it's true because we, we. We it's, everything is personal. And, uh, this industry is one of those things that it's changing, but for a long time, it was things that people wouldn't talk to other people about.
[00:31:56] And now it's, and that's again, kind of [00:32:00] going back to our, our news store is, is like, we want to create kind of a forum, like something where guys can just come and hang out. You know, talk about their varieties, talk about their systems, talk about their inputs. And, and I feel like that is going to make, you know, we can
[00:32:17] Nick Greens: talk about their failures, right?
[00:32:18] Dave and Joe, you've been preaching about this for since the last conference show we attended. You've been preaching about not, not enough people speaking about their failures, you know?
[00:32:29] Marius Berman: No. And the thing is, is, uh, I feel like that's part of. Uh, you know, working with someone and, and developing that trust is, is, is telling people that it's safe to fail.
[00:32:44] It's okay to fail. No one's going to embarrass you to fail. Uh, but the biggest thing about that failure is if you don't come back a little stronger, if you don't learn from that failure, you're going to continue to make that mistake and you'll never get better. You'll never strive to what you're trying to [00:33:00] achieve.
[00:33:00] Unfortunately.
[00:33:01] Joe Swartz: Nick. And I were on a forum at the indoor icon this fall down in Orlando, and we were, we opened it right up to a, uh, basically a live Q and a, and it was so funny because you could see people sitting there and to your point, yeah. He a, a bad thing. And. And someone will ask a question, Hey, I'm having a problem with spinach germination, can you help?
[00:33:26] Now? As soon as he said that everybody's eyes lit up and suddenly got pens in their writing and their, and it's like, I guarantee you, you know, no one wants to say. Hey, I, I just had a massive aphid infestation. No one wants to say it, but the first
[00:33:45] Nick Greens: custody when they're building a brand, right. Joel, when they're building their brand.
[00:33:50] Joe Swartz: Yeah. Well, we called it the indoor systems now don't have any insects at all, so we don't have to worry about those kinds
[00:33:56] Marius Berman: of they don't exist. Right? [00:34:00] So winter time, there's no bugs.
[00:34:05] Joe Swartz: If someone says, oh, I had a problem. All of a sudden all of these people suddenly go, oh yeah, I have to,
[00:34:11] Marius Berman: you know, it's amazing,
[00:34:13] Joe Swartz: but that's, that goes back to the community that goes back to, again, that, that, that shared experience that we all have, I've always been long, uh, you know, advocating with technology.
[00:34:25] You know, we can't be disconnected from horticulture and that's that human interaction with the plants and the crops. Um, the plant empowerment movement, I think is amazing because it marries technology with horticulture and, and it's that same thing is that we don't have systems that grow things for us.
[00:34:44] We have systems that help us grow better growers, but yeah. So, so as that relates to. Sharing the, our commonalities and our challenges in the community. So there's the, the, the, the, the [00:35:00] human plant human horticultural interaction, but then there's also the sharing and the community of growers. That's critically important.
[00:35:08] And, and you're on the frontline of doing that. And I, I applaud you for that. And
[00:35:11] Nick Greens: I respect what if we had a world. The plants were the thought leaders of our community. They made the decisions.
[00:35:18] Joe Swartz: They are, we haven't gotten smart enough yet we're working on it, but we haven't gotten to they're
[00:35:26] Nick Greens: controlling us.
[00:35:28] Marius Berman: Well, you know what it is is that it, without plants we'd have nothing to control. And I feel like the people who acknowledge that and appreciate that are the people who are working with. And I know that when people start growing, their attitudes completely change and they start looking at things more holistically and they start looking at things like the environment and, and their waste and their, and their use of resources completely different.
[00:35:57] And I feel like once we [00:36:00] all get back to that, I think that's going to be something that's going to be really big. It's going to be huge. Um, and it's just a matter of getting everybody on board. I think that. That's the whole point of what you guys do. It's the whole point of what I do at the store. It's getting people back to the plants and getting people to understand that this is all full circle, you know,
[00:36:21] Joe Swartz: and you're right.
[00:36:22] That's, there's so much crossover to the rest of our world, our humble industry. Hey, you got a brand.
[00:36:30] Nick Greens: That name, dude, full circle, dude. That's your, that's your brand,
[00:36:33] Marius Berman: bro? That's a good dude.
[00:36:37] Nick Greens: I think
[00:36:39] Marius Berman: where you go. My, uh, my, my alter ego is dirt peddler because we sell, I sell a lot of dirt. That's my,
[00:36:50] uh, we have a lot of fun over here, guys. We do. So you opened up a
[00:36:55] Joe Swartz: second store. Um, how do people get to know more about you [00:37:00] and more about Chicago roots and.
[00:37:03] Marius Berman: Actually the best way is, um, I would like to say that there's other faces of roots organic, but, uh, I, I, I've been doing a lot more of the social media lately and, uh, we have a lot of really cool things that are going to be happening around the store coming up.
[00:37:21] I, you know, I told you about that room that we're going to be shooting content for today. And my thing about all of this stuff, Is getting into the details, the nitty gritty, this stuff that people kind of overlook. And, um, I think that that's kind of the best way, you know, to find us online. It's really easy.
[00:37:38] I mean, we're, we're just at Chicago roots and IgG, same thing with Facebook. Um, and, and we'll, we'll, we're going to be doing is, is just more content, just more and more content. And I think, uh, it's going to be a good snapshot of kind of my personality and who I am. And, uh, also all the things. We see as a concern, you know, w [00:38:00] when I'm, I'm constantly writing things down as people come in and, uh, they asked me these questions, this guy last week was talking about, and I understand where he's coming from, but driving a steak or a skewer into the.
[00:38:13] The stem near the baseline of the soil, uh, to stress the plants out before they get done with flowering. Something just so bizarre that I understand why he's doing, but I want to start addressing things like that. You know, like some of these kind of. Things that people talk about things that, that I'm sure people implement, implement, uh, but just, just kind of dispelling some of these truths and like getting people to understand that, although this stuff is complicated, there's no reason to over complicate things by creating more issues for yourself.
[00:38:46] And
[00:38:48] Nick Greens: what about the myth that plants need a sunrise and a Sunday? Well, and that's y'all asleep or are they never go into sleep mode?
[00:38:58] Marius Berman: And that's the other thing is like, there's [00:39:00] a lot of these, you know, and that's, that's, what's funny too, is a lot of these new light controllers and all this stuff. They have sunset and sunrise settings.
[00:39:10] Um, and, and, and it's funny because. I feel like the whole reason why indoor growing is where it's at right now is because of human intervention, mother nature's she's okay. But we do a lot better, you know, like when it comes to selective breeding and, and like understanding plant nutrition at this scientific level.
[00:39:31] All of those things, humans do a little bit better than mother nature. And the thing is, is like we have to find that fusion. We don't want to deplete all the resources from other nature, but we can't acknowledge, or we can ignore her one on like 100%. There's a lot of things that I think us as humans contribute to plants that make this a lot more efficient and a lot more, uh, kind of beneficial to the whole, the consumer, the end user, the [00:40:00] farmer, you know, that's what we all focus on is like, you know what it is for a farmer.
[00:40:05] And it's funny that you guys joke about, I feel like I need to start listening to some more of your, um, to some more of your previous episodes. Cause it sounds like you guys have some pretty good inside jokes and things you've talked about in the. Uh, that are obvious, you know, obviously, uh, not true facts that I'm sure a lot of people believe.
[00:40:24] And, uh, it
[00:40:27] Nick Greens: is definitely something we go
[00:40:29] Marius Berman: back and, and you know what? I always tell people, it's like this, there's a reason why. Hundreds of nutrient companies and products in the stores, uh, because they're just like jeans. It's just like a pair of jeans. Everybody's got their favorite pair of jeans that fits them the best and not every pair is going to fit everybody else.
[00:40:49] And that's why you have all of these formulas out here and all of these different inputs and different ways of going about it. But when it comes to the core of things, the jeans are supposed to cover your butt [00:41:00] and the nutrients are supposed to feed your plants. Right. Oh point of everything. And, um, as much as people think that one size fits all, there might be a general kind of baseline that actually might make that statement true.
[00:41:13] Uh, but at the whole grand scheme of things, there's so much more to it. All right. I think, I think
[00:41:17] Nick Greens: what that comes true is you can use any base fertilizer, like a one part or two, and your additives can always stay the same. You know what I'm saying? That's one way of what you're talking about. Like the base formula can always be the same or different
[00:41:35] Marius Berman: yup.
[00:41:36] Frankenstein, sign something and get completely different results, you know, but also it's all, it's all dependent on the varieties too. Some varieties of plants really do not respond to certain inputs. And that's something that I think a lot of people are starting to learn the hard way when it comes to life.
[00:41:52] When it comes to nutrients, uh, even when it comes down to kind of growing systems in general, you know, like, uh, if you've got a [00:42:00] big, heavy plant, uh, that gets very top heavy or something like that, it's probably not something that's going to be ideal for a small channel NMT system, you know?
[00:42:10] Joe Swartz: Yeah. Well, it's like the, you know, the fundamental laws of vertical cultural sites, the technologies and the tools will always change and evolve, but the fundamental laws of horticulture.
[00:42:19] I have never and never will change, which is just like the fundamental law that you got to cover your butt with something. And what's your, what, what pair of jeans you want. And that fair, a favorite pair of jeans, like you say, is very unique to your specific situation, your physiology, your application, your wherever you are.
[00:42:40] Nick Greens: All of those helped you, where and how far you adjust
[00:42:42] Marius Berman: the belt.
[00:42:45] Joe Swartz: So the tools, the nutrients, the lighting, the environmental control, the methodology all again, our tools and how, how you do it. Um, you know, is up to you, but you, the plants have certain requirements for maximum [00:43:00] performance and you need to meet them.
[00:43:01] How you meet them, maybe up to you, maybe up to
[00:43:04] Nick Greens: your, where a wallet chain. If you want to wear a wallet,
[00:43:13] Joe Swartz: In the last segment we were talking about going into a home hide or going into a hydroponic store. And one of the points that Nick had made, which was a very good one is, you know, go in, talk with the people interact form of committee. But they have to conduct the business. They have work to do. Don't be a pest.
[00:43:29] Don't bother them. So to that, we know you have a lot of work to do today and have to get back, but we thank you so much for your time and your valuable in what we're going to want to have you back. We're going to want to see upcoming events. Um, Chicago roots, organic, please check them out online, check out the
[00:43:50] Nick Greens: Tommy, shout out to Tommy.
[00:43:53] Joe Swartz: If you're a, if you're in Chicago, you want to, you want to go in, you want to see Marius and Tommy and you want to talk to them [00:44:00] and, um, and again, very valuable information. Um, thank you so much for your work. Thank you so much for spending some time with us. And thank you all again for spending a little of your time with us today.
[00:44:13] Hopefully that was some valuable and helpful information. And we look forward to speaking with you again soon.