028: Jake Emling - Root 42 Harvest

Jake attended Michigan State University where he earned both undergraduate and graduate degrees in horticulture. He has nine years of experience across a variety of specialties including agriculture, agronomy, entomology, and viticulture. During his early career in Michigan he worked for Michigan State University, AgroLiquid, and the U.S. Department of Agriculture. Beginning in July 2018 he joined CropKing, Inc. based out of Lodi, Ohio. His experience with hydroponics, aquaculture, and aquaponics was instrumental to his desire to start Root 42 Harvests with his wife Katie.

While his professional career has focused around outdoor/indoor cultivation practices and nutrient & pest management, he has an undeniable passion for viticulture and enology. Over the past ten years, Jake has been involved in the establishment and/or management of at least one dozen vineyards in France, Washington, Michigan, and Ohio. 

His international work and travel has enabled him to teach, learn from, and work with growers around the globe. Giving back, especially to the next generation of gardeners and farmers, has always been a central part of Jake’s career. He has personally created and taught at educational programs and seminars on various modern horticulture techniques across the United States in front of audiences ranging from school age kids to fellow industry professionals.  Passing along the knowledge and experiences Jake has already amassed in his young career is a guiding principle of Root 42 Harvests.

More about Jake Emling:
Website: https://www.root42harvests.com/

More about Joe Swartz:
Website: https://amhydro.com/
Twitter: https://twitter.com/HydroConsultant

More about Nick Greens:
Website: https://www.nickgreens.com
Twitter: https://twitter.com/InfoGreens

Transcript

Hey everyone. Welcome to another episode of the poly greens podcast. I'm Joe Swartz from am hydro, along with my colleague, Nick greens of the Nick greens grow team. And today we've got another great guest, a man who wears many hats, uh, Jake Emling, uh, he's the owner of Emily agricultural services. He focuses on field crop, vineyard and orchard consulting, and he also has route 42 harvests, which is hydroponic and controlled environment, ag consulting and, and, uh, consulting services.

And he's also a former horticulturalist and consultant with crop king in Ohio. And so he's done a lot in the controlled environment, ag space and, uh, Jake welcome very much. Uh, we're very much appreciated having you here. Jake. Thanks guys. Big, beautiful day to be on the show. Yeah. Yeah. And a warm day in Ohio, for sure.

So, uh, Jake, tell us a little bit about your, how you got into horticulture. Uh, how, what, what led you to this path and controlled environment ag. Yeah, no problem. I would say it's kind of a funny story. So I'm originally from the UPN, Michigan. So up there, if anybody is familiar with that area, it's snows, you know, several months out of the year, it's called is not much when it comes to actual like vegetable production and stuff like that.

And so I remember going on a trip in high school to Disney world of all places and got to see Epcot. And their greenhouses. And of course I have a brother that's a little bit younger than me, and he was all about the rides and crazy stuff. And I really liked the greenhouse. So at that time they offered like a backstage tour.

So you could go through and look at stuff. Um, yeah, it was like my junior year in high school. I, to kind of where I, the what? Oh, sorry, go ahead. I know where I got bit by the bug and I was like, oh yeah, the plant stuff. So that's really cool. Um, and then from there I went to Michigan state university and, uh, started studying horticulture, actually started in, uh, like biochemistry and I, at that time, a lot of the people that were studying that were going into medicine and I was the odd bollix no, I want to play with plants.

And so that's where I switched into horticulture and sent from there. I did, you know, my bachelor's, my master's, um, and it was really convenient for me. I got hooked up with a group of guys that were doing wine and, uh, great research, both in a field and a greenhouse. And so that was kind of cool. So I use that as kind of my background of like quality.

So I'm all about like, Doing the best quality produce or best quality vegetables. Um, got a chance from that to also go live in Europe. And when you want to talk about quality produce, holy cow, you should see how they grow stuff over in Europe. It's crazy, uh, nother level stuff. And then after college got to do a fun stent with the forest service being entomologists, then worked for a fertilizer company, doing a lot of liquid.

Uh, fertilizer research, both in field trials and in greenhouses. And then from there switched completely to the greenhouse industry. And so I built greenhouses to help design, put things together. And I currently, I run my own and then help other people out all across the U S and some international clients too.

So done a little bit of everything. So you have your own home operation? Yup. Yup. Yup. Currently we are doing, we've got, um, I'm probably in charge of about 7,000 square feet of production, um, of. Lettuce herbs, uh, micro greens and tomatoes. Very nice. You know, it's funny. The, uh, uh, the Epcot tour is I, I it's something, I get people all the time telling me that that was their first exposure to hydroponics or that's what kind of, you know, got the, got the spark going, if you will.

And like you, I took the back tour. I was on my honeymoon. And we went in and there was a delay in the tour. So the, the host had a whole group that was having to be 10 of us and we were all standing around. And so the, the tour guides talking to us and said, well, it'd be about 15 minutes. So let's, uh, why don't we go around the group here, say who you are, where are you from?

And, uh, and what you do for a living. And so, you know, there's bill from New York and he's a. Stock exchange a broker or someone's a plumber from Wisconsin and they get to me and I'm like, hi, I'm Joe. And I'm a hydroponic vegetable grower for Massachusetts and everybody laughs. And the guy it's like, well, so I guess I won't be.

Telling you anything today, but it was a great tour. There's some great people there. And then years later, I got to meet rural Jensen who was really responsible for all the work there. And it was just amazing hearing all the stories, getting a, uh, a back view of the, of the back tour, if you will. It was a really, um, you know, how, how he designed it and set it up and what they were looking to do that was Merle Jensen's still active right now, or is he just kind of semi retired?

I believe he was he, I believe he's, he's pretty much semi-retired, but he's still involved. He was at, um, indoor ag con a couple of years ago and he's, uh, you know, he's, I think he's probably enjoying his time away from the industry a little bit too, which is a good. So in Jake. So, so then you also spent some time as a horticulturalist at crap, correct?

Yup. Yup. Yup. Got to do some stuff, which is funny looking back at it now, because they're the, one of the ones that provided a lot of systems to the Disney world. So it's kind of funny that it's kind of gone full circle for me. And then some it's like, oh, I remember one of my first weeks working there got a call from Disney world.

And I was like, Disney world. And then I got to learn about how they've been involved with them for a long time now. So actually just this morning, I was telling Nick, I went and picked up some more NFT channels, um, from them, for my place. Cause luckily they're only about 10 minutes up the road from me. So this is a convenient place to have.

Yeah, very, very good. Um, so, so tell us a little bit about, uh, Emerling agile, agricultural services and route 42. Yeah. So Emily air cultural services was started just like everything else during the pandemic. Um, before that I had been doing some. Consulting with different people on the side for like vineyards and stuff, mostly around here in the great lakes.

And I wanted to kind of bring it forward to like a full-time thing. Um, I really want it to provide really quality produce, especially with everything going on. And you guys probably saw it in your neck of the woods, that at the grocery store is a couple of times this past year, we've had some real rough patches of getting some real good quality stuff.

And so I kind of wanted to fill that niche and help other people around you trying to pass the knowledge along, you know, One of those things where, you know, if you have all the answers, but you don't share it with any body that really doesn't help us all as the industry. So the whole idea was to kind of lend my services, um, do a lot with education and helping other people along and trying to get everybody on the same boat, because if we all come at the same playing field and all at the same level, You'll see, all of a sudden the whole industry rises up.

So you have to bring everybody along with you and you don't have to be as high tech as these multi-million dollar greenhouses, either just, you know, a few tweaks here and there to improve quality. And you know, my background, I'm doing a little bit of everything. I am seeing all sorts of stuff. Kind of helps me, you know, interpret things.

One of my favorite things to do too, is look for ideas completely like way off the wall from horticulture. So like I like looking at things that they're doing in like, you know, the manufacturing section energy, because you know, you'd never see, I feel like we get way too pigeonholed. In horticulture. So we're all read the same trade journals and all the same trade magazines as we're always seeing the same information, but you know, branching out to look at other stuff.

Um, and that's kind of why I think I have kind of a unique set of viewpoints on stuff. Cause I was kind of trained as like a winemaker, so I know like, okay. You have to have so much good quality produce coming in to make your final product. So it was kind of the same way, you know, if it isn't 100% perfect, you know, it doesn't leave my greenhouse or out, it doesn't leave the field.

We weren't looking for, you know, the best of the best. And so that's kind of why we started. Plus I was stuck at home. I used to do a lot of traveling all over the world and I had, you know, several months where I stuck at home. So I was like, Hey, why don't we build a greenhouse? So we built a, this one's 1400 square foot, all hydroponic greenhouse.

So we're  and this is in your backyard, correct? Front yard in front of your near his front yard, front yard, greenhouse, and an Archer that we just planted. So like, we're, I like to think of it as my friends refer to it as we're our own little mini horticulture research station here. So we've got okay. I can't even tell you how many different crops we've got growing here, but we've got, you know, a couple of different greenhouses, uh, grapes, apples, cherries, peaches, plums.

Um, so we can do some independent research on top of also what we're selling to local produce markets around here. They're also doing allergy research too. Correct? Yeah. So we're doing some stuff with, um, the plant. I've got some of their products to go through some other independent, um, research part. So Milan, my background's in actual horticultural research.

So I like doing that stuff. So I do a lot of like third-party evaluations of things. So, you know, different products right now, I'm doing a nutrient supplement to go with. Um, different hydroponics up. So I set things up kind of as research trials too. So like my greenhouse has two identical systems that I can run independently.

So when I want to try something out, um, and we'll get into that about how. Much value I put on research. If you can't measure something you can't manage, it is kind kinda my opinion. So having numbers definitely helps. And the right kind of numbers that's for the, for the viewers. Do you want to tell us on how many sites do you have in your greenhouse right now?

Sites as in how many channels or like how many just site, individual sites, plant sites. Yeah. So I'm doing, I've got two tables and I've got probably 2000 plant positions. And so we're doing, you know, he set it up that way. Roughly this time of year, a four week schedule, you know, 500 a week, wintertime we'll back it down to 600 or six weeks.

So it's like three something. In the winter to research, but your research is really right in the commercial system as part of your commercial growing operation, correct? Correct? Correct. Yep. Yep. So we're looking at different, um, products. So like, you know, I have a big background in plant physiology and plant nutrition, so that's the part that really interested me.

So I do a lot more research on nutrient manipulation for the plants right now. So trying to tweak it out, you know, if I can save two or three days off of production time, It doesn't sound like much, but when you multiply that out by 52 weeks, holy cow, there you go. Can you tell us a little bit about some of that, some of the things that you're working on specific to that, that process.

So, um, right now I'm working on a lot of dialing in nutrients at particular growth stages. And so what's interesting about. Like my setup here, and a lot of commercial setups and an NFT system, you're going to have plants that are young and old in the same system. And so it's this fine balance of trying to get the right nutrients.

Cause as a plant matures, the nutrient demand for that plant changes. And so it's kind of this. Making sure you've got the right amount of nutrients for your young seedlings that are using, let's say different proportion of NPK and calcium compared to an older plant that, you know, you're trying to balance it all out.

So for example, you're not getting as much timber burn in those old mature. Plants, but you're also not overloading your seedlings with a bunch of calcium, which can kind of screw them up that way. And so it's interesting. Cause hydroponics, we can really tweak and, um, work with that stuff. When we do field research and stuff, it's a lot more limited because you know, soil is a whole different animal.

We don't even want to talk about that here today. Unless you're your time to get data is extended dramatically. Oh yeah. When we do projects out in the field, we're talking about years rather than, you know, a couple of months when I can do it in a greenhouse, so sure. That's fantastic. So Jake made a really excellent point.

I hope people picked up on is again. Yeah. He's he's like many of our guests has talked about the plant and focusing on the needs of their plant and then working your commercial production systems around that and, and his point to, um, raising the industry by helping people improve the quality, a lot of, uh, in controlled environment ag, one of the struggles that we see a lot is, you know, the, the.

The mistaken notion of the system, doing the growing for you and you plug it in and you let it go. And without really focusing on the, both the nutritional and environmental needs of the plant, um, you don't necessarily always have high quality or consistent quality, which then goes to market. Competition, you know, people, um, have this, this notion, if you, if you grow good quality local products, the, the, the world's going to beat a path to your door and the market is just waiting for you.

And that's just not the case. Um, we have very competitive marketplace is basically almost everywhere in north America. And if a controlled environment or hydroponic grower can't grow. High quality market, competitive or market superior quality, um, and, and do that consistently. Then we have a very, very big problems and not only for you as an individual grower, but, but, but for the industry as a whole.

So, um, Jade, both at your time at crop king, but also your time as a grower, I'm sure you've probably seen a lot of that. Oh, yeah. It's, it's definitely the biggest thing. And it doesn't matter if you're like I've made the mention earlier. If you're in a $4 million facility or, you know, a small, you know, passive who powers, there's always practices you can implement to help improve the quality, um, and doing out there.

One of my favorite toys that I just. Picked up recently was one of those Kestrel, uh, weather meters. And I carry that around with me all the time in the greenhouse. And I'm looking at, you know, airflow, um, at the canopy level, looking at air flow out of my fans. Um, temperatures, you know, you got to measure what the plant is doing and then kind of work your way back backwards.

So for example, if those plants are really hot, you know, hot sunny day, like today, Those leaf temperatures are going to be way off compared to what the air temperature is. I'm more focused on managing that leaf temperature. I could care less what the air temperature is on the plants and, you know, you gotta measure what kind of a VPD you got going on or vapor pressure deficit.

So it's a lot of, you know, I like the saying and I've borrowed it from friends. I know in the vineyard world, but. The saying go is the best fertilizer and a vineyards is the grower's footsteps. I would change it for in a greenhouse. The best fertilizer is the growers hands. Like if you're not getting your hands in there and looking at everything.

There's only so much a computer screen can actually tell you saying, okay. Yeah, those numbers are right. That number is right. Yep. That looks like it's in the range. But if you actually go spend some time with the plants and see how they're reacting to whatever environment you're growing in that role really give you a sense of what's happening and how you're going to change it, to make sure those plants are doing what you want to do.

And the plant empowerment, uh, movement, you know, with the coming out with the book plan, empowerment really is kind of the first in our industry. The first real push to kind of, you know, open some growers eyes to saying, you know, we don't set our environmental parameters either based on past experience or what we think is right.

And then just hope the plants, you know, will do what they need to do. But rather we make all of our environmental and nutritional management decisions based on what the plan is telling us. So it's really, I mean, that's one of the things that I think is the most exciting. Uh, piece to our newer technologies is our ability to much better understand what's going on within the plant.

And again, and, and to your point, Jake of, um, you know, the growers hands are being very involved in the plant. So that's something that, you know, I always cringe when I hear about the. The latest app that will, you know, you can sit at Starbucks and check your greenhouse, which is all cool and gray. And that is a tool that you can be used, but you don't want to remove, uh, the grower or the hands-on component to growing at all.

Oh yeah. And a lot of it too is you'll learn when you're in a greenhouse, you can almost. I like to think of it, almost like a sixth sense. Cause you can hear things that are happening. Like, oh my pump. There's something going on. That pump doesn't sound right. Well, what does that equate to. Well, if that pump doesn't sound right, your flow is changing out in your channels.

For example, that's going to change your dissolved oxygen. That's going to change what air you're getting to your plants. So, I mean, every little thing makes the difference and that's really what makes the difference between. Being super successful in your greenhouse and kind of just being mediocre is, you know, you got to know what happens and then kind of equate that to like, how are you going to take care of that?

How am I going to fix it? Or like, you know, class example today, 90 degrees out. If I get a low, like my pump, you know, slows down or I get lower levels of oxygen to those roots, those plants are going to be stressed. When a plant is stressed, it makes secondary compounds. That's going to affect flavor. So, you know, you've got to think about it kind of, I hate to use the term, but big picture, you kind of have to know everything that's going on to make sure everything's great.

Um, Plus, I probably watched the weather more, even though I'm growing in a greenhouse. I don't think this gets brought up enough. I watched the weather like a Hawk because you know, we're still, even though we're in a controlled environment. Control mother nature still likes to throw us some curve balls of like, you know, if it's going to be cloudy or sunny or, you know, a heat wave and all that kind of stuff.

So coming up and down to can affect the indoor humidity as well. Yeah. A hundred percent. Like even when you have wet walls and the best HVAC systems in the world, you're still kind of. Dictated to what the system can do based on what, whether you're experiencing. And so kind of knowing ahead of time, that three to four day forecast out kind of helps make me my decisions of what I'm going to do in my greenhouse for my plants.

So I know for example, if we've got a heat wave common, you know, I'm going to lower my EEC, you know, try and get as much air moving in those plants and just try and keep that. Keep the plants working, you know, the more they're not growing. And the more they're kind of like in that defending themselves stage, that's your chances where you're going to get a disease or an insect problem or something else.

So we all, we all hear that. Well, you grow in a greenhouse, so you don't have to worry about the weather. Oh, I started slapping myself in the head at that point. It's like, no, a lot of my management decisions are specifically made based on what's going on in the weather outside. Yeah. I don't want to almost say that growing in a greenhouse, I watched the weather more than when I do my outdoor stuff, because outdoor, I don't have as much control.

It's like, like we had a snow storm here three weeks ago. Yeah. So we've had 34 degree weather and we've also had 90 degree weather in the span of a month. So like outdoor, you kind of like throwing your hands up. You're like, well, it is what it is in a greenhouse, you know what the, how that's going to affect everything.

So that's kind of, snowbelt right. Ohio's in the, snowbelt where I am. I'm just on the edge. So Northwest more here, we'll still get the occasional snow storm, but oh yeah. Nothing. I laugh here is tropical compared to where I grew up. So like I constantly tell my family back home, like, yeah, I'm out here planting, doing stuff.

I'm insurance and a t-shirt and they're still in, you know, snow suits. So you might as well be living in Florida. Exactly. So any thoughts on, um, you know, we've seen a lot in the last few years, obviously in the industry, as far as technology, um, uh, both in terms of the, the basic configurations of, you know, advancements in greenhouse production, uh, indoor farming, container farming, all of that were based on what you've seen over the past few years and your.

Experience in the industry. Where do you see a lot of the big advancements in the industry coming? And what are you pull out your little crystal ball and things going to happen? Ooh, crystal bar questions. So this is going to be the point of the podcast where I will. Mentioned my wife. So my wife is a engineer by training.

She is in the environmental engineering. Um, so I married brains, so that helps. So she helps do a lot of stuff in the greenhouse, and I think that's gonna be our biggest thing you're going to see is a lot more making our greenhouses more efficient from, um, what kind of energy use we use. So the whole idea of making them.

More energy efficient by like the different lighting systems. We use the different ways we heat and cool the greenhouse. Um, that's like the one cost that no matter what we do, we don't really have control of because, you know, we're not really providing or making our own energy on site per se. And so that's still something that I'm going to see a lot big facilities.

That's going to be the big thing. I was making more, uh, technology to make your operation more efficient. So like these probably you've probably heard of a CHP system. These are combined heat and power, super popular in Europe. We're starting to see them more here in the states. Um, you're probably going to see a lot more fans and equipment.

That's going to be a lot more what we would call like energy star rated and just so that way we can kind of decrease our actual. Power load or demand for a greenhouse. Um, shocking. A lot of people think a greenhouse is pretty energy efficient, but there is definitely rooms for improvement on everything we use.

Yeah. We're really looking at resource management. Yeah. Yeah. So there's, there's a lot of exciting stuff coming for sure. Um, Nick, the questions actually, I do got a question for Jacobs, so. If, you know, if you can go back to your 13 year old self and ask yourself, you know, I mean, tell yourself, uh, you know, a little advice, what would that advice look like?

You know, that's funny because I listened to the PI greens podcast all the time, while I'm out pruning tomatoes. And so that's a good, you know, put my headphones in and listen to you guys. So I knew that question was coming. So I had some time last week to kind of reflect on it. Sure. We started critiquing your, uh, tomato pruning, uh, on the next podcast.

So yeah. Yeah, I'll, I'll, I'll do a video. I can have you over my shoulder. You can watch me while I'm doing it. And so while I was reflecting on it, two biggest things, um, One would be definitely talk to as many people as you can. I've learned so many. Tips and tricks to all their people that you would never think that would apply to horticulture.

And so, you know, one of my favorite things is just talking to other people and learning things. You know, there's all sorts of tricks that, you know, you know, people will come up with them kind of on their own. But having the background knowledge, that's a good thing to kind of like justify why they're doing that tip or trick.

And so, you know, talk to as many people as you want and get as much knowledge as you can. And hold on to that, the second one is going to definitely be, be bold. So like, I think as a grower, you know, we don't do enough of like being bold and say, you know, promoting ourselves as being these high tech, you know, cutting edge people, this notion of as a farmer we're, you know, out of tractor, you know, doing stuff it's like, no, no, no, no, no, no.

What we're doing in control of the environment where, you know, our own engineers, our own water technicians, we're our own, you know, electrical design people. I mean, Now, I mean, it's as complicated as a new car, some of these greenhouse systems that we're working on. And so, you know, we have to promote that, that, you know, that age old adage of what, you know, a typical farmer is or does is completely different.

And I think if we promote that more and get more people excited. Yeah. That we're going to see a lot more of the people come into the industry and, you know, as a 13 year old self, I definitely think that, you know, it's one of those things that, you know, get super excited about it. Cause you know, as 13 year old, nobody says, I want to be a hydroponic lettuce girl.

That's just not a thing that anybody thinks of. But you know, If I can promote that as much. Um, you probably saw my daughter around here earlier. She's two years old. I don't know any other two year old that's out there, you know, planting seedlings. And we're trying to get her as much knowledge as I can pass it onto her, because what's nice about it too, is she's going to learn things that I don't know, things are going to keep advancing day to day.

So it's like, this is kind of my baseline knowledge. I'm giving her what I know, but I'm hoping that she, you know, I want her to be smarter than dad. Let's put it that way. She'll be telling you things, uh, sooner than sooner than you expect. Hey, that's, that's fine. That's fine. As long as she knows how to pick things and beg them to that's completely kosher with it.

Oh, fantastic. Yeah. So again, I hope as people listen to Jake and what he has to say again, like many of our guests he's talking about. Studying the plant studying the relationship between the plant and the environment and what affects both the nutritional and environmental management have on the plants and using those correctly.

Um, basically, and then the needs of the plant is sir Francis bacon said several hundred years ago, nature to be commanded, must be obeyed. And really that's a very true and controlled environment ag and. So as you move forward in controlled environment ag, the more that you can be curious and look at how your plants are growing and what the impacts of what you do on the plants that will serve you very, very well.

And, um, so obviously, you know, getting the, the experience and knowledge from someone like Jake is critically important. So Jay, how, uh, how can people get in touch with you if they need to reach you? Yeah. So the easiest thing, um, right now is we have a website it's, uh, route 42 harvests with an s.com. Um, that kind of tells a little bit about us.

Um, that's kind of where we're directing traffic right now. You can always get ahold of Nick. Um, Nick knows my number. He probably calls me all the time sometimes just to see what I'm up to. I think yesterday he called me while I was out. What was I doing? Oh, I was planting pumpkins and he calls me, he's like, what are you working on?

I'm like planting pumpkin. So, you know, you never know what I'd be up to or working on. And so that's kind of the two easiest ways to get ahold of me. Um, and then I know Nick, you'll probably put my info on the show. I'd love talking to people like, you know, if anyone has got questions, just feel free to reach out and that's.

And if I need to reach out to him, he's a, he's a definitely pumpkin grower. Oh yeah. No. Okay. So I w we got time for a quick side story. Don't we? Okay. So when I was working in Michigan for the fertilizer company, I had a technician slash colleague of mine. I was working there and he wasn't a competitive, giant vegetables.

And so he got me started in that. Joe is probably shaking his head. He knows what. I'm talking about I'm planting mine this weekend. So we did competitive, giant watermelon and yeah. So a little bit different pumpkins then. Okay. But watermelon that's where it's at. Um, my personal best is a one 69. He was. Um, in that two 50 to 300 range, the guy I was working with and I was learning tricks from him.

And so, you know, when we're talking about these watermelons, we're talking 15 to 1600 square feet for one plant. That's how big these plants got. So if anybody's interested in getting a watermelon, that's bigger than they are, . Yeah. Yeah. When we picked them, we always put them, uh, we had, we took like an old army cot and had hand held, sold it, so it into them.

So we could roll the watermelon on there. And three guys could pick it up before we could put it in. How many guns of vodka would it take to fill up that watermelon? Uh, I don't know, off the top of my head, but somebody smarter than me figured out a ratio. So we measure over the top of the watermelon and then we measure the belly and we know the density of watermelon.

And so we can kind of equate how heavy the fruit is before we actually like pick it up and weigh it. And I know that they'll put on about five pounds a day, just in weight. It's crazy. Unbelievable. That's very cool on top of everything else. It's fun to do, you know, competitive, but you know, we do like competitive giant tomatoes, cantaloupes, other oddball stuff for fun.

So just, well, we went live, uh, Jake was showing me his hands on the screen. And so someone with dirty and calloused hands is always someone that, uh, I hold in the highest regard. So, uh, Much respect to you and, uh, and wow. So that's really great. So there's a lot of great stuff that Jake's been doing. So, um, please feel free to reach out to Jake and Jake.

Thank you so much for your time today and thank you all for, for listening to us for another episode. And, uh, please keep sending us your comments and your suggestions. So thanks very much everyone, and have a great day.