More about Joe Swartz:
Website: https://amhydro.com/
Twitter: https://twitter.com/HydroConsultant
More about Nick Greens:
Website: https://www.nickgreens.com
Twitter: https://twitter.com/InfoGreens
More about Joe Swartz:
Website: https://amhydro.com/
Twitter: https://twitter.com/HydroConsultant
More about Nick Greens:
Website: https://www.nickgreens.com
Twitter: https://twitter.com/InfoGreens
Hey, everybody. Welcome to another episode of the poly greens podcast. I'm Joe Swartz, along with my colleague and friend, Nick from the nick greens grow team. And we're here to talk to you today a little bit about some of our past shows what's going on in the industry. A little bit of everything. We've had a lot of really cool guests and, uh, and we're getting a lot of great feedback.
People are sending in questions and of course we encourage you to continue to do so, but, um, we, we certainly have had a lot of good commentary about some of our, uh, our guests. And, you know, maybe we'd like to hear who is some of your favorites and who would you like back? Um, Nick, who were some of the people that you'd enjoy talking to, it would have to be a doctor Gary.
Um, definitely, uh, as far as, um, learning from him from, from a plant level, um, you know, and not just growing the plant, but like understanding the plant cells. Yeah. Yeah. I hear he was pretty fascinating. Fashion. I mean, there was so many, uh, Dan Ovadia for Florida and I think was, was awesome. And one of the things that, uh, I was thinking about today, when we decided to just kind of talk about what's going on in the industry and, and, uh, you know, all the guests and we've had on everyone has got their, their own perspective.
But I started to think this past week about some of the commonalities, um, everyone that's come on so far. What they've all talked about. And people have asked me that, let me back up a bit, because people have asked me many times how we choose our guests. Like how do you get someone to come on your show?
And, and, uh, and who do you decide? How do you decide who, who come on and really, I mean, you know, Nick and I have been in the, in the industry for a very long time and. And we, we like to talk to people who are really the doers. So the industry, I mean, if you go online or you're on the social media accounts, there's so many different companies and technologies, all kinds of, you know, fighting for your attention.
Um, but there's also a lot of people and not necessarily always really well known who are out there in the industry, doing something. We hear a lot of people talk and we're going to do this. If I, if I hear one more time about, you know, so-and-so is building the world's largest indoor vertical farm to think I'm just going to shoot myself because, um, you know, everyone is trying to impress you with this or that.
And at the same time, there are people out there in the industry who are doing things they're growing, Jennifer, mark, Gotham greens. I mean, they are out there. They are building they're growing. They are feeding people in a very, very big way and building a successful business. Um, people like, uh, Dr. Murat Kucera and Dr.
Jean DACA Malley. I mean, here they are, you know, educating young people. They're raising really the next generation of growers. You know, so many of our guests, we have gotten, we've got upcoming guests. We've got Damien Solomon from plant Dean consulting and Dr. Nadia Saba from Dr. Greenhouse. I mean, these are.
University of Arizona alumni, um, Jen fry, mark also went through the program. And so, so Jean and Marazzi footprint is, you know, very big in the industry. And so they've done some tremendous things. And then, yeah, Gary, Jimmy first now, what did you meet Jean first? Was it Jean? Yeah, I met Jean back in, uh, the 1990s.
He was still at Rutgers university. So, uh, he was on the east coast and, uh, and I met him a very long time ago. Uh, we, we met and, uh, we corresponded for a little while and then we kind of fell out of touch and he was, uh, over at university of Arizona and he was doing really great things and I reconnected with him.
I think at first he didn't remember who I was, but, um, you know, we we've worked together now over the years. Um, you know, several times and any advice you can give to some, somebody that's, you know, new to the industry and that, that kind of wants to go and study with gene or study with somebody. What, is there any advice like how, how do they go about it to get into one of those programs?
Yeah, so, and great question. The, the academic. Portion of kind of the knowledge base that you really need to get in into this industry to be successful is really, really important. And to be honest with you, I have, for a very long time, I live in a college now. Uh, I've worked at many different universities and in all honesty, I've been.
Kind of disappointed with a lot of the academic education, uh, related to controlled environment agriculture, especially as it relates to, uh, commercial controlled environment ag and, you know, gene and Murat really had kind of innovated it. Um, and then, you know, other people like Sherry Kubota, um, and she's over at Ohio state, um, Neil Madsen and some of the great people at Cornell university.
So there are a lot of really great academic programs. And if you are. You know, Abel, if you're of the right age and, and space in your life where you can actually go and, you know, engage in, in, in college work or post-college, um, education, that's, that's a really a great program. You know, there's a lot of people, what if I was, uh, not seeking that the GRI, but I still wanted the courses.
Is this something that you recommend for somebody that's say is not. Yeah, no, actually, and that was, that was my next point was really, I have since day one always recommended. If you want to get into this business, go and work in a facility, volunteer intern, even. Um, you know, now, you know, it's got to a point where wherever you are, there are some hydroponic facilities close by get a job there, volunteer, uh, intern, um, train with them because really the education is in the greenhouse.
It's in the grow room and. That is by far the most. And I think that that informational gap is, is one of the big challenges right now. I mean, so many people, uh, obviously, and we've talked about this when we talk about consultants and experts and all of that is that you have people who are supposedly experts or who are giving advice or giving information, right.
Related to controlled environment agriculture, and they've never run a facility like that, which I think is, is, you know, borderline criminal really. There is a lot of that happen. Yeah. Yeah. And we're farming and, you know, you may become enamored with the latest, greatest shipping container farm or farming system or CA setup that, you know, will allow you, you know, some type of automated growing, you know, set it and forget it, plug it in and the crops are going to grow, but really this is farming.
And regardless of our tools, and I know I've said that before, but we really have to focus on this is high-level horticulture. You have to understand not only how to grow the plants effectively. And that's one of the things that if you look at all of our guests, you know, all the movers and shakers and doers in this industry, all the people that we've.
Interviewed and hat on. They all have that. They come from diverse backgrounds, but that one commonality is every single one of them talked about the plant and they talked about, we have to focus on what the plants need and providing environment or nutrition or systems that all is built on that. So again, yeah.
I wonder if we did it like a tree of knowledge with them and it would all go to Marel Jensen. Well, yeah, I mean, you look back and there's Morel, uh, Ray Sheldrake, uh, Dr. James Boodley, Jim Benton Jones. Now doctor Dr. Jones is another one, um, that a lot of people don't hear as much about him, you know, Dr.
Howard rash, obviously for sure. Hazing pioneer in the industry and very well known, um, You know, one of his contemporaries, Dr. Jim van Jones, who passed away just a couple of years ago. Um, I was lucky enough to spend a little time with him. He was an amazing guy. Um, he was down in Georgia and really these are, these are the people who glass house, right?
Glass house, whose glass house. Oh, that was Dr. Aja Cooper in the UK. Yeah. And they have Dr. Cooper's and other ones. Um, you know, we always talk about the old adage of, we all stand on the shoulders of giants and it's so true in this industry. We, we hear about all this amazing technology and kinda get caught up in that, you know, so-and-so just created this new farming system and, um, Everything that we've got everything that, all of that you and I are doing and everything that all of the people that we've talked to are doing is all based on the work of other people who came before us, who with much less understanding of, of, you know, we they're, our knowledge base is accelerating very, very rapidly and people yeah.
Pat, you know, after us are going to be far more knowledgeable than we are. I don't think you can keep up with all the white papers that are coming out. They're being published. Yeah. Yeah. There's a lot of, a lot of work being done weeding through. It's not always the easiest thing. What's really, what's really valuable.
You know, the trick to that is for me. Um, just keep reading through it, do it again. And do it again and do it again. And it's sooner or later, Joel, I swear to you like, oh, like something's got to make sense. The good stuff starts to become evident. And that's, you know, to your point of, you know, getting involved in the industry and working, um, in, in this industry and, you know, getting in the greenhouse, getting in the grow room.
Is that all his information that's thrown at you and you're right. I mean, the more you can saturate yourself with information, you will start to see what makes sense, what works. The best analogy that I, I had a professor that I had worked with told me was you're not really giving people information.
You're teaching them how to see it and how to discover it for themselves. And boy, That is really true. And, and you start to, to see what's real and what's not, I mean, most of the information that I have that I use on a daily basis kind of, I had to see it. I mean, some of it I was told and I believed it. A lot of it, I didn't believe did you have to see the mess ups?
Is that, is that one of them? Yeah, but, uh, But, uh, eventually you do start to see what's what's real. And when you're actually doing, and that's why it's so important, you can't become a vertical farming expert or a hydroponics expert or a CA expert. If you haven't grown commercial crops and all the things that we've talked about right now, so far really revolve around crop production and the horticultural aspect.
But there's the other aspect is that's the economics, that's the business, you're a farmer. And if you are farming, You are raising plants to make money or to come up with a certain desired outcome. I was the president of one of these big companies like app harvest or something like this. My number one rule would be every single buddy has to grow food at their house indoors.
Yeah. You know, at least a lettuce head under counter top or whatever, like just to just go through the whole experience of what goes on in a farm. That's what we do at M hydro. I mean, most of us are commercial growers anyway, but every single person at M hydro, even people in the office, Jen, Jen, is coming to master gardener over there when she took over the company.
And I joined, um, after. After that one of the things is that we have our research greenhouses, um, right at M hydro and our Qaeda. And then, um, a few miles away. We have a commercial, um, facility that's run by, uh, at-risk high school students. It's called the HCL Humboldt county office of education greenhouse.
And this is a full-size commercial. Operation that we are involved with, we help with, but it's run by high school students and they do an amazing job. And Jenny told me that she said, I'm going to be there every day. I'm going to be in the greenhouses everyday. She's the only I defy any, if there's out there, anybody in the industry, any CEO of any controlled environment in that company.
Um, that is out there sometimes cleaning channels or transplanting or trying some new crop varieties. Um, Jenny is, you know, when I'm here in Massachusetts and she's. You know, Skyping me or, or face-timing me, you know, a picture of some strange symptoms in the rugala or something like that. And, uh, she doesn't less and less though, because now she knows so much.
So she came from a business background and she has done an amazing job running this company. And a big part of that comes from her really. Immersing herself in the commercial crop production. End of it. She knows more than most people in the industry, um, about, about, you know, everything from managing it, uh, the environment and the nutritional management, the equipment.
Yeah. To both the building, the greenhouse. Yeah. Oh, she got involved last year when they put the new poly cover on, she was out there, the attaching it. So, I mean, she's done, she has done every job that you could do and all of the gross, dirty quote, unquote lower skilled jobs that, that you do in the greenhouse industry at times, she's done.
And, you know what th th th that you're saying lower, lower, skilled jobs. I want, I want to mention something. I was actually yesterday just thinking about this as I was eating a little tomato and thinking about like, You know, who was the grower of that tomato or who was the guy that came up with the recipe to afford the fertilizers or spring that's made of with or who was the pruners out there?
Man, the pruners, I give them more love than anything. The grower's not pruning, you know, it's his assistants that are doing the pruning. I try to think about like how many people are involved in that one little tomato. And I was just trying to be grateful, you know, like to, to Pablo or Hawaiian or whoever that had involvement with, with that tomato, you know, there's so much that goes into producing our food, a controlled environment, ag and traditional ag as well.
Um, and, and to really understand that industry. Uh, from all aspects, you've got to have done everything. Um, you know, I, uh, I spent years and years in the greenhouse, you know, it's that old stereotypical, you know, I had, you know, had to get up from the dinner table at Thanksgiving to go close up the greenhouse.
Uh, I was working on new year's day on 4th of July. Um, there's a lot to be done. And there's so many people that, um, you know, we talk about our frontline healthcare workers and how they're out there every day, kind of unsung heroes and, you know, with the COVID, uh, well, the food industry didn't shut down at all.
Oh, absolutely not. I mean, people really, you know, started to become more aware of that because of the pandemic. But I mean, kind of silently every day, people are out there producing your food and, and so Jenny's approach with em hydro. Was that not only was she going to be involved in every, she's going to know exactly what it's like to clean out a nutrient tank, or if a pump has to be rewired, she hasn't rewired a plumpy yet, but she didn't, you know, she does observe when someone does.
Or, you know, she knows how to operate those, the dosing equipment, you know, very, very well. So, you know, while she's wanting this large company and overseeing so many people and making a big imprint in the industry, she understands every aspect of it. And, and, and then she, you know, insists that everyone. At the company understand that it's a, it's amazing.
We have, you know, most of our folks that are commercial growers, uh, on some level, or like you said, having a setup at home, uh, all the way to doing work in the, in the greenhouses. So everyone knows it inside and out because there's so many moving parts. And, um, you know, at the end of the day, you have to produce high quality crops.
That are competitive in the marketplace and you have to be able to sell them at a price point that enables you a profit and all of those pieces really need to be in alignment. And you know, my success on growing countertop, uh, systems are the smaller, the system is the less, I mean, I don't change the water at all.
I just keep adding to it fresh, fresh, or a little more fertilizer to balance it. I let the plants figured out on their own to what's going on. Balancing the water anyway. And you give, and you give your plans a lot of love you're involved. No, that's, I mean, I have, uh, some strawberry plants that I've been growing since March of last year I bought them and I was going to grow them outside last year.
But then you know, that, you know, it happened. And then, so I was like, oh my God, I just girl them indoors. You know, nobody's going outside right now. So now I got, you know, strawberries dip and growing indoors and what I did to the strawberries that I bought in March. In the fall time I put some outside because I keep propagating.
When the sh, when the runner happens, the runner don't go under the, the ground because there's no ground. Right. So the runners come up. So what I do is take the runner and I put it in another pot and I let her root out. And then as soon as it routes out, I cut it off of that one. So then it becomes a whole plan on its own.
So then I put them outside. And then, so this summer, so, so this spring, I went out there to go look at the ones I put in the fall. And they're flowering Joe. They flowered the next season right away. Yeah. I actually picked some strawberries in my garden yesterday, so it was pretty cool. Um, yeah, I mean, Well, um, uh, oh my gosh, you have to ask me that.
Um, my wife stars, Nope. Um, ever, ever bearing variety. Wow. So they're the Avaya varieties escape. And I'm going to have to go in and ask about it for the audience out there. Everbearing just means that they produced, uh, um, more seasons than, than, uh, than, you know, Then usually. Yeah. And I think that the red color that's, that's what I know the red is the delicious guy, for sure.
Um, but, uh, you know, that, and that's one of the things being a commercial grower. I was never a big home grower, like as far as growing in the house. But you know, one of the things that I've seen is that when you have plants in your house, you spend time with them, you interact with them. You that's, that's really that connection.
That's that's gold. And so any of those connections you can have with the plan and then understanding all the different parameters, um, you know, around the plan and how they affect the plants. You know what I started to do, I took it a step further. I, uh, you know, I got a house now and so I'm, I'm kind of outside on the lawn now.
I'm sorry. I inherited this really nice lawn that I'm, uh, I'm feeding now. I was out there last night. I was feeding the lawn. I'm gonna error rate. It's seed it, feed it. Yeah, give me, give me a couple months with this. I'll have some really, really good line. Cool. All right. You guys had brought some more food in that long though.
Well, I wish right, but I'd probably, uh, I'll probably get ticketed here in the town of, yeah. Oh gosh. Well, Hey, speaking of getting out, so with everything opening up, uh, you know, here in Massachusetts, things are, are fully open now in California. Things will be fully open, I believe next week. Um, I'm really excited about some of the events that now we're going to going back to, you know, God forbid we're actually going to see each other again, or we're going to actually interact with each other and all that, you know, we like to do our seminars, you know, very hands-on we do some classrooms, uh, type instruction.
And then we get out in the greenhouse and that's where the real magic happens. And, uh, and so, yeah, uh, the 24th and 25th of this month, we've got a seminar. We have another one already booked for October. That's coming up October 21st and 22nd. I think it's mostly sold out. But if anyone is interested in coming up for a two day.
Um, commercial hydroponic seminar go to go to am hydro.com and check out the seminar page. Um, there'll be some more information. We may actually be having one again. Um, another one, definitely for beginners in advance. Uh, whether, if you're a pro or you're just beginning, definitely go. And, and you want to shake people's hands there?
Yeah, I mean, we have people that have never, uh, come, you know, have never been involved in the industry and are coming to learn. Um, we have commercial brewers, Alex McKeon, who was on our show and he and his wife came and they, uh, they attended the seminar. We've had, um, uh, Patrick from green, a CEO of green automation, America come and take our seminar.
So people of all different levels have, uh, have come on in and it's going to be really great to see people again. And, and, uh, and, and how people, you know, in the greenhouse. Interacting with people. And now of course, we've got a lot of the events coming back. I know cultivate is coming back in July in Columbus, Ohio, uh, which is, you know, I think kind of the first, really big horticultural show of the year.
It's definitely where all of the big brands are, are always going. Like, if you're a big brand is probably the one show that they have you go to one show. That's the one you go to. Yeah. From a producer standpoint, cultivators is huge and it's a, it's a great event. We, we, we enjoy it. Um, every year. And of course, as it relates to specifically to CEA indoor ag com that's that's by far one of my favorite, uh, events.
Yeah. You and I will be there together. So, so indoor ag con um, everybody, if you, if you're not familiar with it, it's, it's really kind of one of the premier. Controlled environment, ag events. And it's coming up in October. I'm in Orlando, Florida. It's a Tobar fourth and fifth at the Hilton hotel in Orlando, Florida.
So, um, so Nick and I'll be on the panel. We're also hopefully going to meet a lot, a lot of new people down there. Um, maybe we can do a live stream. We can do a, uh, an episode of the polyethylenes podcast down there. We can talk, I mean, do a Q and a live stream too on Facebook and. And YouTube and stuff like that with an amazing group of people.
And we can, uh, yeah, we can do Q and a. We can talk to a lot of the people in the industry, really doing a lot of good things. Um, and there's one more in October. Oh, the PMA. So, so the, the indoor icon really mostly focuses on kind of the technology and the production on the there. And PMA. PMA is the largest notorious marketing association, largest, um, you know, fresh produce.
Um, events really here in the states. Anyway. Um, if not one of the ones, the premier ones in the world, um, that's all that's coming up in new Orleans in October, October 28th and 29th and 30th, I believe. And, um, that's also looking for, so that's all the growing companies and that's, you know, where the grocery industry and the sales and the retailing.
Uh, all the CA product shy. It's not specific, just new to CA products. I mean, we went down there, my gosh, we ate our way through the trade show floor. Um, and we were, you know, having bananas from Venezuelan pineapples from Ecuador and, um, yeah, great controlled environment ag. I mean, we, we, we spent some time with the garage down there.
Um, Had, uh, you know, he had a great display for Gotham greens and all the different products that got them had, uh, Maribel had a presence there, uh, village farm, sunset produce. Amazing. So if you're ready, interested in kind of the, the, the retailing end the market again, seeing what people are doing in food, the PMAs also a pretty amazing event.
So this is awesome. We're we're, we're now looking at. Yeah, a number of events to go to this year live and in person, which I'm really excited about. Um, my travel has been, um, you know, cut back a little, um, with the pandemic, but I know a lot of people have just not even gotten out. So, um, what a great opportunity for everyone to kind of get back out there in the industry and, uh, and see what's, what's new and what's happening.
Cause it certainly, we do have an update. I actually am one of our guests. I don't think we talked about it. Uh, Stephen Ritz from green Bronx machine actually is doing a PBS show now. I think he talked about it and I think the show's already, uh, went through and I don't know if they're filming or if they broadcast it yet, but.
It's definitely something. Yeah, I know. Steven's, Steven's done an amazing job and his show is getting, I know really rave reviews, um, uh, received recently received a, uh, disruptor award from Artemis, which was a great honor for him. And I know, um, he actually has a new am hydro system in his classroom. And I'm going to probably be going up sometime this summer, hopefully to, to see him in his, some of his students.
And he's always got some amazing things going on, get us some footage footage for, for the audience to check out. Yeah. Yeah, definitely go and check out. Um, whatever your preferred podcast provider is, whether it's Spotify or Buzzsprout. And, um, and check out some of the past episodes because there's a lot of really great guests and I, I still will go back and listen.
And you, you pick up things that you missed maybe once before. Um, so, so certainly there's a lot of cool guests and, uh, and we always like to hear from people, some of them are, we got to start talking about, um, bringing back to, yeah. Maybe ask more of the, of the audience on who they suggest we bring back.
Well, you got a lot going on at M hydro, um, I'm I'm pleased that we have, uh, a project here in my neck of the woods in Connecticut, in Torrington, Connecticut called a CT food for thought project. It's run by a foundation called new opportunities, and it's an amazing, um, uh, program. And so what, what we've done is partnered with them and built a 12,000 square foot commercial farm and processing center.
And, um, we'll be operating that. In fact, we're almost the, construction's almost complete. Um, hopefully we'll be, uh, planting very soon and not only will they be putting. You know, fresh, nutritious food, especially, um, in underserved communities around the Torrington area, but they will also be providing, um, entry level jobs for people in the community.
People maybe that traditionally have, have struggled with, um, you know, uh, employment or, um, people who are new. To the, to the workforce. So, so there's some really great economic opportunities for, for some people. And, and also they're going to be using sales from the farm to generate more income and revenue for their social programs.
So it's kind of like a win-win win for everybody. And we're really happy to be, um, Yeah, involved in it. And I'm happy that, that I actually have a project that's within driving distance. I'm usually hopping on an airplane. So it's actually nice to be able to drive down to a project. And, uh, and we've got a couple of new, bigger projects come in the summer.
So a lot of cool stuff in the industry, everything is just picking up and, um, You know, we're, we're interested in hearing what, uh, what some more of the viewers like to hear about and what they want to, to who they want to say. Thank you again, everyone for joining us and spending some time with us, and we certainly enjoy spending time with you.
And, uh, we will be bringing you some more great guests in the next coming weeks and, uh, have a lot of really cool stuff to talk about. And now that things are picking back up again, so. Once again for my friend, Nick and the Nick greens grow team. And, um, Joe Swartz from AML, hydro. I want to thank you for spending some time with us, and we wish you all a very good day and we'll see you again real soon.