The amount of plastic produced in a year is roughly the same as the entire weight of humanity. EarthDay.org reported that humans use about 1.2 million plastic bottles per minute in total. Approximately 91% of plastic is not recycled. Everyone is aware that we need to use less plastic every day and new founders have the opportunity to lead the way on this.
So for this episode, I wanted to speak to a proven expert on how to solve the packaging problem. Joanna Jensen founded the children’s toiletries brand Childs Farm as she was determined to help soothe her daughters’ painful eczema, so formulated a collection of natural products packed with essential oils to care for children’s sensitive skin. Childs Farm has been certified as a B Corp and became the number one brand in the baby and child segment in 2019.
Having been a sustainability advocate throughout her life, Joanna shares what investors now expect from businesses on sustainability, how to build it in from the beginning and why packaging doesn’t have to be the hardest part to solve.
Joanna’s advice:
Click here to find out more about Prevented Ocean Plastics.
If you'd like to contact Joanna you can reach via Instagram @childsfarm @joannajensenofficial or via Iona@catchpolecommunications.co.uk
FF&M enables you to own your own PR. Recorded, edited & published by Juliet Fallowfield, 2023 MD & Founder of PR & Communications consultancy for startups Fallow, Field & Mason.
Email us at hello@fallowfieldmason.com or DM us on instagram @fallowfieldmason.
MUSIC CREDIT Funk Game Loop by Kevin MacLeod. Link & Licence
The amount of plastic produced in a year is roughly the same as the entire weight of humanity. EarthDay.org reported that humans use about 1.2 million plastic bottles per minute in total. Approximately 91% of plastic is not recycled. Everyone is aware that we need to use less plastic every day and new founders have the opportunity to lead the way on this.
So for this episode, I wanted to speak to a proven expert on how to solve the packaging problem. Joanna Jensen founded the children’s toiletries brand Childs Farm as she was determined to help soothe her daughters’ painful eczema, so formulated a collection of natural products packed with essential oils to care for children’s sensitive skin. Childs Farm has been certified as a B Corp and became the number one brand in the baby and child segment in 2019.
Having been a sustainability advocate throughout her life, Joanna shares what investors now expect from businesses on sustainability, how to build it in from the beginning and why packaging doesn’t have to be the hardest part to solve.
Joanna’s advice:
Click here to find out more about Prevented Ocean Plastics.
If you'd like to contact Joanna you can reach via Instagram @childsfarm @joannajensenofficial or via Iona@catchpolecommunications.co.uk
FF&M enables you to own your own PR. Recorded, edited & published by Juliet Fallowfield, 2023 MD & Founder of PR & Communications consultancy for startups Fallow, Field & Mason.
Email us at hello@fallowfieldmason.com or DM us on instagram @fallowfieldmason.
MUSIC CREDIT Funk Game Loop by Kevin MacLeod. Link & Licence
00:01.72
fallowfieldmason
Given product-based businesses struggle with packaging and how to make it as sustainable as possible I was really keen to speak to someone that had done it from the get in this episode we hear from Jonna Jensen founder of children's toiletry brand child's farm determined to help soothe her daughter's painful. Exiger. Johanna formulated a collection of natural products packed with essential oils to care for children's sensitive skin now Charles Farm has been certified be caught and has reached the number one brand in the baby and child segment having been a sustainability advocate throughout her whole life. Joanna now shares with us and. Having been a sustainability advocate throughout her life. Joanna shares great Joanna shares great advice about what investors now expect from businesses on sustainability. How to build it in from the beginning and why packaging doesn't have to be the hardest part to solve. If you'd like to contact Joanna You can find all of her details in the show notes along with a recap of the advice that she has so kindly shared.
00:17.20
fallowfieldmason
Hi Joanna thank you so much for joining how to start up today. It would be wonderful if you could kick off with a brief introduction as to who you are and a bit about the company that you started.
00:23.61
Joanna
Thank you for having me Juliet so my name's Jonna Jensen and I'm the founder of child's farm which is the Uk's leading baby and child personal care brand I started it well I I started having the idea in about 2010
00:33.78
fallowfieldmason
Amazing when did you start Charles Farm
00:42.48
Joanna
We had our first products and our website launched just at the end at 2011 and then our first listing in retail was like 2013 but grownup retail in Boots was 2014.
00:48.87
fallowfieldmason
Incredible.
01:01.83
Joanna
And we became the number one brand in the category 2019 so very quick grace classic growth story whirlwind.
01:10.43
fallowfieldmason
Amazing and B Corp as well certified.
01:20.28
Joanna
Last year July 2022 after quite long we sort of caught the beginning of covid after our application. So the whole thing took forever. So we applied in 2019? With sustainability at the core of this business since we started. So b corp was certification was the natural progression for us.
01:42.20
fallowfieldmason
Well I think a lot of people think you've only become ethically minded and sustainable when you get certified but actually you started as you meant to go on right back at the beginning. Why was that important to you.
01:52.77
Joanna
Totally yeah well if for me, it was fundamental. You know my ethics and values were very strongly what I call esg to environment and sustainable and governments because.
02:08.82
Joanna
All of that is the whole what I and is is I think is a better description of sustainability because it's more than just you know, making sure you get the right packaging or the right ingredients. It's about making sure that everyone who's employed in the process is fairly Treated. Um. And this was so so important to me from the very beginning and I think when we started when I started producing in 2011. You know it was at the core of everything that we did then um, what concerns me is that people are sort of hastily shoving it on as built on.
02:45.64
Joanna
And they don't understand that this is ah a way of thinking. It's a way of doing it comes from the heart. Um, and now you know with the change in a lot of things and I've met debt providers who will only um, who will only lend to sustainable businesses. Say businesses with got yeah eh esg at their heart to private equity who will only invest in Certified B Corps there is a a a wholesale change in the way money is looking at ESG and businesses. Need to wake up and hear this because I think there are also going to be massive progressions in the way that the city and for that I mean the banking area is going to support b corps 2 so. I think you know is b called the right thing I don't know we could debate that for hours. But it's the only thing right now. Um, and what it does it is it creates a bar of standards within sustainability. Um environmental behavior corporate governance. All of these things which are hugely positive for making a very good business.
04:03.27
fallowfieldmason
And I guess it's it's a quick understanding that if somebody sees in a business they might invest in and they see that it's already be court certified or it's going through the motions to become be court certified. They've had a million questions already answered for them. So it's a much faster process.
04:33.51
Joanna
It's asking you questions about everything from how much water do you use to your logistics to your ingredients to what you do for wellbeing for your staff or your entire supply chain is under scrutiny and um I think that that is fantastic.
04:48.42
fallowfieldmason
I found it fascinating because I'm three years in and going through it I realized there was a lot of good. We were already doing but there was so much more that we could do and it was picking up every rock and looking under everything of how we treat our team how we recruit people do we vet our suppliers and we're a service-based business and i. Sit in a co-working place and I'm opposite lots of product-based businesses I'm like oh good that would be even harder if you're product-based business because of your packaging because of your ah product you got more stuff and and we I think it isn't it's interesting that bcorp is lots of different categories around governments community clients customers.
05:25.70
fallowfieldmason
But also stuff and given what you did with child's farm I hoping you could share some of your experiences. It feels like you were very much ahead of the curve on our product-based business is doing the right thing. Why was it so important to you ten years ago to do that given that you didn't have to do it back then.
05:39.53
Joanna
Um, great question I mean look I have always been environmentally aware. Um since a child we were brought up to be conscious of what was going on. Um, you know we we I mean I physically cannot if someone offers me a plastic bag I am horrified. I am horrified I mean my entire kitchen is like ah a waste disposal unit. We have about 40 different bins for different things. We recycle. Absolutely everything. But you know we chew I make I personally make purchase decisions based on the sustainability of a product and how much waste it's going to Create. So. But that's always been the case with me and within my family. It's how was I was brought up to respect Mother Earth.
06:24.97
fallowfieldmason
Did it make it so much harder for you starting a business because I know B Corp say you have to be a profitable business to then help planet and people did you make it harder.
06:33.49
Joanna
Oh totally. But but no, it didn't and this is this massive myth that you can't make profit. You can't You can't follow decent. Yeah esg principles and make a profit you blooming. Can It's just you make different decisions and you make decisions that are for the long term not for the short term. And you know I've got 2 teenagers now. But when you add children to this planet your your level of consciousness just goes through the roof and all you want to do is ensure that they are safe that they are well cared for that they are well looked After. And part of that comes through with your consumer choices. You know you want to buy the best fruit and vegetables for Them. You want to buy organic meat. You don't want things that are riddled with and that have been fed antibiotics. Um, you want that sort of robust approach to everything for your children and. I Felt that we had a responsibility for children that were being bathed I mean at the time when we we launched the leading brand in the yeah Uk used formaldehyde in their formulations and the dye they used came from um, Cattle Hooves. And and that didn't stop until 2016 so we came into a category which was really sleepy it was nobody had looked at it for forever and everything about it I felt as entry level for a new soul on this earth.
08:08.85
Joanna
Was saying all the wrong things and if you were a parent who cared you know you needed something that did the heavy lifting for you and and that's that I think is the purpose of brands and Retail is to do the heavy lifting for consumers. Um, and I think the purpose of governance and through for that I would also say government is to make it impossible for Manufacturers people brands whoever not to be able to do that They have to do the right thing. It's it's got to be impossible that they can bolt it up and that is.
08:46.91
Joanna
It is the hard truth that we face now I think is the fact that it is still too easy. Even you know the plastic tax came in two years ago I think people are playing the plastic tags rather than changing how they manufacture their packaging and that's just plain wrong. And and and to me that says that your fines for not following plastic tax are simply not high enough because I can assure you. We get our plastic um in our bottles which we use plastic because glass is too dangerous. Aluminium would be pushed back onto the consumer is a much greater cost. Plus also recycling aluminium is is is not dissimilar to recycling plastic but my point is we get our plastic from Indonesia they have a population of 223000000 people who by and large are drinking bottled water. Or bottled beverages every day. So can you imagine and and what what our guys do is we create employments in the local communities they go and collect this wasteist. They take it to a depot. It's shredded backlive. It's actually um, shrued squished down. Shoved on a boat up to Scotland where it's cleaned shredded and turned back into more plastic as long as we have these mountains of plastic in our population populations. They are going to need to be recycled and you can argue that.
10:19.54
Joanna
This is this is this is a country this is a series of islands that have no waste management programs and if bantam who do the prevented ocean plastic were not doing this I don't see Coca-cola and I don't see nestle and I don't see pepsio who are the biggest plastic polluters in the world setting up recycling units in these countries I don't see them setting up waste management. Um um, factories in these in these places so we can do our bits and what we can do is just say this is the minimum. This is the Minimum. You should be doing if you are creating a product. Utiliziles plastic but there's so much plastic still around and it's all available to be Recycled. We are waiting you know until we're in a position to move to something else like so many other brands are.
11:08.12
fallowfieldmason
Yeah, so you're doing the best that you can with what's available. Yeah.
11:13.44
Joanna
And we're doing the best that we can with what's available. But honestly the people are researching this constantly to find out where we can go next when it comes to packaging but you know things like pumps mean we use the pump which has got no metal in it. So That means you can put all of that. In your recycling and you don't have to worry about it and it will all become another bottle. Um, and I know the problem is I know that recycling in this country is fairly shit but we all need to step change if we could all recycle our plastic waste. Every single one of us in this country that would just be the step change would be phenomenal and it's we're not asking everyone to sort of wear a hair shirt and flagellate every night to make sure that they aren't doing the right thing What we're asking them to do is just make one small change one small change and then.
12:07.31
fallowfieldmason
And given that there's so many new businesses being founded every quarter in the yeah uk and if we focus on the uk I think I mentioned earlier there's this 19% increase in new businesses being registered who are like great have at it I've had enough I'm going out my own.
12:25.21
fallowfieldmason
Ah, my good God There's so much to do is there any advice that you'd give someone who hasn't done any damage yet who is thinking about launching a product based business. Any things that they should consider from the get go I mean there's probably a lot. But yeah.
12:25.23
Joanna
Yeah, yeah.
12:39.91
Joanna
I Mean there's a lot I mean if you're talking about sustainability everything everything from you know you have to you're in this wonderful position where you can create a culture which is going to attract people. Ah, do not forget some of the best talentant out there. Those intellectually curious intelligent individuals are passionate about the planet. They are passionate about esg and if you have got a business which is equally as passionate by the planet and passionate about yeah esg, you are going to attract these really talented individuals If you've got a business.
13:14.62
Joanna
That you know just doesn't really care. They'll use the cheapest of this the cheapest of that and you know that's what you're going to attract to.
13:22.31
fallowfieldmason
You're so right? because for me I had this blind passion I didn't realize it was blind at the time when I started I was like I'm going to fix this problem I'm going to teach founders to do their own communications and I got so excited about it and that enthusiasm when I met future employees future clients. They could see that. But. I wanted to start as I meant to go on and that's when when I went through be court recently I was really quite chauffed because we ticked a lot of people boxes but from a packaging perspective. Our first client was a skincare brand and they spent 3 years trying to find the right packaging to do right by the planet they didn't want to do more harm.
13:42.25
Joanna
Yeah, yeah.
13:55.71
fallowfieldmason
Said we're really sorry everything is recycled and recyclable apart from the lid and we haven't fixed it yet and I really quickly realized that as long as they're being honest and transparent and trying their best that is a lot more than most founders and now.
14:09.84
Joanna
So oh Wow Yes, and and and you know I've got to be honest I've still got the same problem with the lids that they've got um but the difference is it's being conscious. It's being conscious and we can't do it all overnight. You've got to a bit like your B-Corp certification. You've got to keep growing over the three years then you're reccertified and you've got to shown that you've you've grown. This isn't this isn't first past the post and you've crossed the finishing line and it's all over. Thank you very much. You know again have a nice little Silver Jacket wrapped around you lodge gin and tonic and hurrah. It doesn't work like this these are all. It's like the marathon to sub. These are all marathons that you're training for constantly and for anyone who has got that hunger to learn that hunger to improve the love of a challenge.
14:46.63
fallowfieldmason
You're done.
14:51.32
fallowfieldmason
Yeah.
15:04.23
Joanna
You know B Corp certification is one of those that gives you that and it allows you to keep on aiming higher and higher. The bar isn't here the bar moves the better you get the higher. The bar moves up and if all business was challenged to to behave in this way. It would be a much better world but new business you have to behave in this way because otherwise people like me and my fellow investors won't even give you the time of day we want to see it is mandatory now.
15:36.72
fallowfieldmason
So it's mandatory.
15:41.89
Joanna
We Want to see that effort. We Want to see that passion. Um as much about the products that they're making as about the packaging that they've sourced the ingredients that they've sourced the workers that they've got you know the initiatives that they've used. The advancements in technologies that they've embraced which are much more Sustainable. It's all of the above. You know I Want to see see an articles of association which even if they're not a B Cook has got the be cut work it wording in it from the get go because that is one of the things that they want to be and.
16:11.98
fallowfieldmason
Yeah. So that entrepreneurial mind that sort of forward thinking. It's not just the product is solving a problem for the client. It's the whole business is actually excited.
16:19.51
Joanna
It's so important. Yeah yeah.
16:27.75
Joanna
The whole business is excited passionate and geared towards change because that's as ah, if you're challenger around an sm me you're coming in. You're disrupting what's existing you're disrupting what's there and that should be within your Dna. Part of that disruption is turning around saying no I don't have to use you know like it makes me nuts that people are saying oh we'll have 30% pcr in our plastic bottles by 2030 I mean what are you doing? What are you doing take your thumb out of your arts and do it your shareholders will. Appreciate it because they will understand that you are making that move for the future and you know when you look at our biggest polluters and again pepsica nestle Coca -cola Coca -cola are they doing they are working. And a snail's page and I am told endlessly oh well, they're big corporates and and and and and and you know it takes a long time to shift. Well I can see these businesses like bantam that are popping up now all over the world. They're in the galapagos they're in turkey they're in africa they're finding these pinch points where there is.
17:23.75
fallowfieldmason
Titanic takes a long time to shift and all that. Yeah.
17:38.14
Joanna
Very limited waste management and they are taking on the plastic waste um waste management themselves whilst creating employment I mean wouldn't you feel a wee bit better if that was at the core of what you were doing and if they can do it. You know if they can do it.
17:53.57
fallowfieldmason
Yeah, there's no excuse.
17:57.56
Joanna
It's no excuse and their plan is actually at one stage they're going to go out of business because there's good. They're going to run out of plastic. But again, they've got more purpose because they're trying to prevent this plastic hitting the oceans.
18:12.56
Joanna
Because of course once plastic is in the ocean. That's it. It's it's a cleanup job. You can't recycle it and so they can remove stuff from Rivers and coastal areas before it gets in the salt water. It's ticked I mean it's tick Tick tick all the way around isn't it and you're giving employment to really.
18:26.40
fallowfieldmason
So well I think that's what I find exciting is that it is the right thing to do and yes if it is harder. You should still do it.
18:31.83
Joanna
You know, challenged areas.
18:40.96
fallowfieldmason
But actually it makes incredibly wise business sense that you are looking after your pipeline your people your product and also going after investment if this is I feel like short of the government regulating at the end of the year you do your corporation tax turn. You need to do an esg return as well. That feels like where it's going to have to end up and why it hasn't happened yet I do not know but I feel like the the shift change of the businesses launching now championing this and showing how it can be done even though they don't.
19:11.11
fallowfieldmason
They have to do it. But I love the fact what you say is becoming mandatory. Um.
19:12.73
Joanna
I think so and I think there should be tax breaks I think you know if you're looking for eissc ISEisS and but investment if you are a Certified B Corp that level should be higher if you hit other certain criteria. You should be able to not. You know people did the the investors should be able to claim more. Than 30% back on eis should be 40% I feel strongly the same for female-founded businesses as well because that's an area where we need to kickst stop. But guess what when I look at the statistics of female founded businesses and I'm afraid I didn't have the number but this is just through b w b which is by women built.
19:50.95
Joanna
Ah, group that I'm an adviser on female fellow who businesses are predominantly certified B corpse so there is that there's a correlation here. Um, and and I don't know what the rationale is.
19:59.72
fallowfieldmason
Yep.
20:06.83
Joanna
Usually most female founded brands are set up because it's something that they've needed and they couldn't find um, is it because you know a vast majority of us are parents I I don't know I don't know what the correlation is and it's something I want to dig deeper on but I think this is telling us that there is.
20:25.96
Joanna
You know there is I think we should be telling government and I think we should be telling government through lobbying not activism but from lobbying the way that you can support businesses doing the right thing through preferential interest rates through preferential investment rates.
20:44.37
Joanna
There's a myriad of things that could be done um to actually show we really care we do care we get it. We get about what we're doing you know and as I say the end result means that you as a business are going to attract a much better quality of employee than.
20:58.97
fallowfieldmason
And I think having read the alison rose review from a few years ago when it says there's 250000000000 missing from the yeah Uk economy because women are not encouraged to start companies at the same rate as men and we all benefit from this our gdp will be happier if women start more businesses and encouraged to. And a lot of the statistics around they start more community led businesses as you said they solve a pain point for women generally they are more people focused and I'm being very gendered about this and I know that's not right either. But I feel like if more ethically minded people generally started more.
21:26.82
Joanna
Yeah, yeah.
21:35.87
fallowfieldmason
Businesses We will solve this faster but from top down if government and big corpse could actually show and lead the way I feel like the press are going to start calling this to account and seeing how big corporations are not performing properly or ethically is there from. Businesses that are scaling at pace are do you have advice for them as to what not to compromise on and that's a big question.
22:12.30
fallowfieldmason
Well, what if this if a business is scaling at Pace. What would they? What should they not compromise on what deal Breakers. Do you see happening in businesses that have experienced fantastic growth. They're really scaling. They. Might forget some of the things that they take for granted they could have started well and then started cutting corners.
22:34.85
Joanna
it's all it's It's all about balance and.
22:39.44
fallowfieldmason
Ah, the million dollar question any advice I know any advice on balance would be fantastic.
22:51.26
Joanna
You know nothing the path to success in a fast-growing um smme is littered with Boulders Land mines and surface to wear missiles and it's it's it's understanding that you know sometimes you are going to be caught short and sometimes you are going to be., But if you're if you're. Absolute Premise is for goods and right behaviors and governance small deviations sometimes have to happen. No two ways buy but running a business is building a business and certainly a fast growing business.
23:27.35
Joanna
Is all about learning as well and if you don't fail if you don't have these hiccups. You do not learn and so you have to take everything that happens within your stride but you have to say right? That's never going to happen again. How are we going to stop that happening again. You know it's when the chips are down that you find that there's a supplier. That can actually give you that which is much more likelyly based or you know you go to the pu you find that your're minil is is actually somebody who grows it two miles away you know it's all of this adds to that change of whether it's food miles or ingredients miles to packaging. Or to you know, think about the wrap that people shove around pallets of stuff which doesn't have to be there. There are all alternatives but the other thing you do is you push back on your suppliers as well because your whole supply chain has to be as like minded as you are and manufacturers. Expect this and they respond to this and we've seen again a step change in manufacturers because they realize if they want to get those businesses that are really strong on yes g they have to be better themselves and you know I would strongly suggest you know. The hiccups happen. Um, you will get over them but learn from them when they do and talk to other people in your situation talk to other founders. Um through this group bwb. For example, they're all talking to each other.
25:00.94
Joanna
And within the community app. There are different threads for different sectors and say people can ask logistics questions who's a good logistics sub supplier. You know when you're talking to your logistics. Are you ensuring that there's a backfill policy with them so they might deliver to. You know, go and pick something up for you and bring it to 1 location but are they taking something back. You know use a distributor who if you're selling to boots. It has got 20 other brands that are selling to boots. So it all makes much more sense think about those miles but you're not given. When you are setting up an smme. You are not given a manual as to how to do it. It's a bit like becoming a parent you can take this advice but there is nothing more key than learning yourself and Julia I sat next to somebody at a panel event the other day and I was really shocked. Um. We were talking about I was being sort of quite strong about saying you know how biased a lot of investing was and that people needed to be more aware and support more women and this quite a young girl said yes and then we need more advice is exactly how to do it.
26:15.61
Joanna
But I'm sorry you're an SME. You're a disruptive challenger brand you're trying to create something new but you want us to tell you how to do it? No, that's the point this is if you go into this, you know you set yourself up. You stop creating your own business. You have got to be prepared to learn. You've got to be prepared to eat humble pie. You've got to be prepared to ask a hundred questions and most importantly, you've got to be prepared to fail and learn from that failure and there is no manual out there. That's going to tell you how to do it. You are making it up as you go along.
26:51.71
Joanna
Ah, that what is what makes you different. That's what allows you to look as a category for the first time and because you haven't been bombarded and being told what you should and should not do you look at it with fresh eyes and you say well that's nonsense you know. If I did it like this I'm going to cut through this this this this and this and it's going to be that much easier.
27:16.45
fallowfieldmason
That's so interesting I had a hilariously and seven o'clock coffee in the park walk with another founder and that's the only time that we can carve out to see each other but we actually love it and I saying god it I feel like I've grown steadily but slowly because I'm trying to do something that hasn't been done before. And now having spoken to you I feel so much better about that because I wasn't copycatting I wasn't trying to just do the same thing again, but it made me really sharp of acutely aware of what was working. What was not what I what feedback and just putting my hand up on this is where this podcast has come from putting my hand up say help I have no idea how to do this bit.
27:34.16
Joanna
Yeah, yeah.
27:51.46
fallowfieldmason
And that vulnerability having been in big brands on bond street to being my own boss has been liberating of I can I can confesss up to the fact I have absolutely no idea how 0 works and now I do and I worked it out but learning I think and being vulnerable are to big huge takeaways.
27:56.26
Joanna
So yay.
28:11.64
Joanna
It does it nit big dip but this is I would say what I look for in and in a fanom when I Invest is intellectual curiosity I think you know anyone can do anything if they have got the gumption to do it. And they've got that desire to learn that desire to have a go. Um and it's that attitude which is everything to me I will invest if I like a product or a service. Whatever it is it then boils down. To the founder have they got that gumption that get up at go that questioning mind that attitude can do attitude can they get shit done.
28:54.81
fallowfieldmason
Yeah, yeah, their intuition and initiative I think across.
28:57.47
Joanna
And they're not. They're not you know when you're a founder's well, you've got twopence Halfpeney by and large and you know as we were talking earlier. We were saying you know don't ask me for my money to pay your salary. You should be eating out of the bins if you are just you know if you if you are on this because.
29:04.70
fallowfieldmason
But also nothing to lose.
29:16.68
Joanna
If you want my money you've got to show me heart and soul you are in this yourself and if you don't have the financial skin in the game. It's got to be literal skin in the game. So.
29:19.92
fallowfieldmason
Fully committed.
29:29.35
fallowfieldmason
And how important is it for a found to be able to articulate what they're doing because we've met quite a few who've put the head below the parapet got on created this amazing product and they're not told anyone about it presumably if you're they're coming to you for investment they need to be able to communicate what they're up to and. And show that passion and show that intellect to you.
29:48.80
Joanna
Well, ah well I've met founders who are hugely passionate hugely intellectually curious but are absolutely lousy communicators and I said to them go and find yourself at a double act go and find somebody who could be your fd. It could be your um.
29:53.41
fallowfieldmason
Yeah.
30:04.83
Joanna
Commercial director somebody who can articulate your passion. Um, and I don't think you know there all founders that just simply can't articulate and they've got a brilliant brand. They've got a a brain. They've got all the assets. They just can't communicate very effectively.
30:23.99
Joanna
Find a friend who can and become a twin you know? Ah, ah because I don't think you know that should not fail I mean particularly in the tech industry. You find this a lot. Um and that shouldn't be a reason for failure. It's highly unusual actually in some sectors to have you know these super brains.
30:35.32
fallowfieldmason
So. Um, I think that's it It You can't be a jack of all trades and an expert all all of them at the same time you could be an incredible skincare developer but you might not feel comfortable in front of a journalist find a way.
30:42.89
Joanna
You can also articulate exactly what they're doing um and.
30:54.16
Joanna
Um, so you find that I mean the 1 thing you you know? yeah you you find a way of making it work and and you know there are also things you need to push yourself out of the box because you know it is you and if you are the face of your brand and you are the voice of your brand. You know, get some guidance get some coaching get somebody to help you to learn the tools to be better than you are unit I had a coach for 3 years at Charles Farm and my actually my other half is an executive coach. So I had it twenty four seven most of the time.
31:30.61
Joanna
But my actual coach helped me with everything not to sweat the small stuff to look at the bit of bigger picture. You know to trust other people I was an appalling delegateator because I was I knew I could do everything and.
31:45.90
fallowfieldmason
Yeah, but should you yeah and you know your business better than anybody else as well. Yeah, no, you've become a bottleneck. Yeah.
31:48.53
Joanna
And I knew I could do it really quickly because I'm one of those people that just works at a frenetic Pace. You know totally but that that does not make for a sustainable business and you need you exactly and say you know I had to have people that were capable. But that I could just cut the cut the strings and let them run with this and you know yes you kissed kissed a few frogs but you know I ended up with a team that was just phenomenal phenomenal and they knew me and even you know again, you do these things like.
32:18.23
fallowfieldmason
Yeah.
32:26.25
Joanna
Um I can't remember what it's called the colors and you understand what people are so I'm red you know which is a director I mean I am all red and green is sort of empathy a people person. Oh I've got none of that Yellow is creative I've got a ton of Yellow. Got a ton of blue because I'm great administrator but the you know walking into the office and saying morning everyone. How are you was just not me but because my head was full I would walk into the office and I'd be thinking right? Can I do I've got to see that I've got to this I've got to see that I've got to see there I had to learn to dial up being a human being.
33:01.96
fallowfieldmason
Ah, yeah.
33:02.63
Joanna
Basically because my head was full and you know when you're running a business I mean I was working seven days a week bringing out two young children on my own. You know the pressure was immense but I had to remember to say please thank you? Um, would you mind awfully.
33:21.23
Joanna
I was still blunt I mean my motto was be bold. Be bright, be brief be gone but that was because I worked at such a pace you know and I I and and I was under personal pressure to work at pace you know and of course.
33:32.29
fallowfieldmason
Yeah, and you wanted to get it done and you will always be the most passionate about your own brand.
33:39.80
Joanna
Course and and but which what I wish I'd learned earlier on is Understanding. You know it's a bit like you know someone will ask me a question and I'll give them an answer straight away. But if you're a so blue you need to think about it and that and you know I would then learn to say to somebody who I knew was. A sort of Thinker I'd say do you want to take that away and we'll meet up again tomorrow because I expected everyone to behave like me. There's a book I can't remember but everyone else, everyone's an idiotdio's or something like that is written by somebody who is who is super red and it's understanding how your.
34:02.45
fallowfieldmason
Yeah.
34:17.87
Joanna
Staff work and then they understand how their core staff work to get the bestized people. This is all part of your governance your you know your the way that you run your business. It's part of your esg is making sure that that's understood now I can say this you know.
34:35.19
fallowfieldmason
And sustaining a good team. Yeah well people make or break the business and you will You are a human being that does need to sleep eat and rest and actually have some time away from the business occasionally.
34:37.44
Joanna
Because I've yes I got it eventually but I can tell you I didn't get it at the beginning and so yeah.
34:51.15
fallowfieldmason
So if you're growing a business and you need people within your team getting the best out of them and they're the best money I've ever spent on my business is the team but getting the most out of them in the best way and understanding that sympathy between both parties and ways of working I will find that book and also the color charts I'm really fascinated by things like this.
34:56.27
Joanna
Yeah, yeah, yes.
35:07.66
Joanna
Um, oh it's amazing and there's something else called Myers-briggs as well. Which again is how you get them your how your energy works now listening to me now you would say you're not an introvert but I am so I will do this call with you and then I will have total silence for 3 hours
35:10.19
fallowfieldmason
Yes.
35:24.21
Joanna
Because I do my best thinking I always say I did all my big decisions were made on the back of a horse and that's where I did. That's where I did my thinking do my thinking because there are no distractions I need to be on my own but we didn't tell my team this.
35:27.91
fallowfieldmason
Yes, you're your way.
35:44.36
Joanna
Um, tactically we made a decision not to tell them that I was an introvert because I had to have my door open the whole time. Um, and that for me so part of but you know again knowing what gives you energy and what takes energy away.
36:00.67
Joanna
You know people take my energy away to yeah na. Well no I mean I can do you look look I'm not but if I you know the house full over Christmas for three days I need you know I can't I think any human being needs space of time but it's.
36:03.35
fallowfieldmason
That's so interesting. Well thank you for your time for one I find it's it's Allen's right
36:14.50
fallowfieldmason
I Feel you're not alone on that.
36:17.81
Joanna
But again, if you know I I just know I know that there are times when I need to be on my own and I explain that to my family and I would say that I'd come back from work I'd drive back from work and I would say give me half an hour when I get home so I can have a cup of tea and decompress.
36:30.44
fallowfieldmason
Me.
36:36.40
Joanna
And I I knew of a chap who used to go to a hotel on his way home from work and he would just get and have a cappuccino sit in a corner and just decompress before he walked through the door at home and it's not unusual to just.
36:54.74
fallowfieldmason
You're you're the best version for yourself for everyone else if you're looking after yourself I think a lot of people say that you've got to put yourself first before you put the company first and because if you're not functioning and our last season was about health and wellness and I was.
36:55.35
Joanna
Find yourself Otherwise you'd just find you're just. And tastily.
37:11.62
fallowfieldmason
Typically not sleeping enough not exercising enough. We use Toggle to track of our team time because we will work remotely and I've put in a walking Toggle client. So if the team are problem solving. They should go for walk and just think outside in nature. Yes, exactly.
37:22.94
Joanna
And if that suits them because there are going to be other ones that need to be in a group of people and it's which is you know which is this is this is a thing we're all so different and then this is what it's fascinating I mean I never I mean I'm afraid I'm work twenty four seven
37:30.35
fallowfieldmason
Yeah, which would be me.
37:42.87
Joanna
And I was and that was the person that I was I didn't take any exercise I think for 5 years um but that again is you know the person that I am but what I what I then did was imprinted that on other people and I thought everyone else should behave like me which.
38:00.26
Joanna
There's no need. They didn't have the other pressures I had that they were totally unaware of to make you know the moment you have investors the moment you have you know everybody who's I mean I had 26 investors and I have to say they were pretty relaxed but there was a timeline that we had to adhere to.
38:18.84
Joanna
And I think everyone had the fright of their lives with covid because suddenly there was I think there was a 72 hour period where you know we were all sitting there thinking we're doomed. We're doomed you know our businesses are buckets. You.
38:35.41
Joanna
But actually you know our business and many other businesses had a phenomenal time and yet I've got friends whose businesses on particular business me going for one hundred and fifty years absolutely decimated and absolutely decimated and and which actually brings me to a point which is right now.
38:48.86
fallowfieldmason
It's heartbreaking.
38:54.17
Joanna
We need to get back into the office because it's not about you know what? I find really hard to work through is people saying I don't want to go to work but I want to go out for dinner and I want to go out to a drink and I want to go to this bar. Well these are people that are having to go to work and my view is have a bit of respect. Have a bit of respect for these people who are there and they're on the early morning train they're on the late night bus home and they're there for your joy and entertainment. We need to get back. We do have a better life when we're working with others. Um. There are statistics out there saying we can be just as productive working from home and we don't need to have huddles of groups of people to have a conversation and actually some people do better because they've got more thinking time you know all of these things but actually we're herd animals. We're sociable animals and we just. Ah. Better people being together and yes, yes.
39:51.87
fallowfieldmason
You pick things up by osmosis that you wouldn't have a Zoom call about and the productivity ideas will come out of and I think it's a blend because I think you're right, you know I need to do the podcast so I work from home Wednesday so I know Wednesdays are I working from home day I am now available to the team on other days and team. Members who based in the west country will come up hopefully once or twice a month but we've worked out what works for both parties and make the most of it maximize it.
40:16.48
Joanna
Yeah, it it depends on your business as well and some businesses have always had people working remotely. We we did actually all of our social media was done remotely um by initially by me mine in Rome so you know it. It's. But she would be over once month, but you know I think there is when I look at the economy of this country if we really want to do our bits. You know, go back to the office. Go back to those places where people haven't been where they're just not in the volumes that there were. Because there are other businesses that are failing and struggling and you want them to be there when you're ready. Um, and you know the only way that happens is continuity and constant. Um support by utilizing these people.
41:06.56
Joanna
I just I feel very strongly our local called pubs sometimes I walk in there and there's navy there on a Saturday nights and and and you use it or lose it. Um, but also if you're if you're learning and if you're you've just come from university.
41:12.90
fallowfieldmason
Yeah, completely like the local post office.
41:21.86
Joanna
I mean I'm near friend's daughter who got a job in the civil service. She's only allowed to work one day a week and she say how fuck am I meant to learn anything you know I don't know who my colleagues are and.
41:29.10
fallowfieldmason
Yeah I mean especially no, you don't know how they work or what they like or they don't like and I learned this a hard way with journalists some of them love an email some of them love a whatsapp some of them want to just be dmed on Instagram some of them just want to have coffee with you.
41:43.27
Joanna
Yeah, yeah.
41:45.25
fallowfieldmason
Until you've built those relationships face-to-face and got that feedback you get far more feedback from human interaction face-to-face in terms of mannerisms and body language. What is it 90% of communication is not verbal or some incredible statistic I think it's interesting now seeing how businesses are operating with that.
41:51.00
Joanna
And totally so. Yeah, yeah, yeah. And you don't you you don't build a relationship through a keyboard and you know, call me old school. But when we needed bottles when we had a Charles Home we had 2 massive um ah, viral episodes and.
42:03.35
fallowfieldmason
Blend.
42:17.58
Joanna
If I hadn't had the relationships I had with our suppliers. We would have never been able to get the things that we got but these are people that I made you know I made strong relationships with I used to have lunch with them I used to have a cup of coffee with them I used to go and see them.
42:33.60
fallowfieldmason
Um, they like you they want to help. Yeah yeah, changing tax slightly you shared the majority stake of child's farm in 2022 were you from a.
42:35.39
Joanna
So they liked they were thrilled with our success and they wanted to be on our journey first.
42:50.67
fallowfieldmason
Looking at or pipeline supplier team perspective also looking at who you were selling to did it matter. This is is a very stupid quet because I think I know the answer but did it or I rephrase it How much did it matter to you who you were selling to.
43:04.70
Joanna
Hugely hugely because totally totally um for me this is you know this child farm is ah is a ah you know number 1 in the u k um, but it's growing enormously internationally.
43:05.88
fallowfieldmason
So you vetted them as much as they vetted you.
43:21.00
Joanna
And it's saying and doing all the right things for a parent and and and it has a right and it should be playing in the global arena um, and my vision has always been. It's a top 3 player globally and I wanted somebody who was going to take it to that.
43:28.54
fallowfieldmason
Who.
43:40.30
Joanna
Position and um pis egg cousins. You know, literally when when we first met them. Um in October Twenty one for the first meeting I kind of think we all sort of fell in love a little bit with each other because we realized we were sort of we we wanted the same ambition and they' one of their um. The great pillars is they want to have you know affordable products for everyone. Everything's got to be affordable. It's got to be good quality but affordable which was actually at the heart of everything that we did plus they've got aspirations to can't become certified be caught by 2026 and the glabel had a sustainability another johanna. Absolutely so much time for her. She is passionate. She is driven and this is what she wants to achieve and so it in safe hands. They've got. They've got a kindness about them. They care.
44:25.10
fallowfieldmason
So it's in safe hands.
44:36.57
Joanna
They got some brands that you know really do answer solutions you know carex for example, um, is one of their strong brands. She's they're probably best named for imperial leather back in the day when we were all children. Um, and. They've got a good management team. They have got good ethics and values they work in countries creating employment Indonesia for example is a very strong part from them and their roots are in Africa funnily enough and they've got a really strong business in Africa and they've got a. They've got a really good plan and and. We met their whole leadership team and we just thought they were cracking and that really mattered to me and that's why I've still got a stake in it because I genuinely believe that these guys can do so much good for the brand.
45:19.36
fallowfieldmason
Got feeling. Yeah yeah.
45:31.87
fallowfieldmason
How exciting well congratulations and so what we do with guests a few things obviously mine your information for fantastic advice. So thank you for that. But we had a guest on the episode before ask you a question.
45:32.14
Joanna
And take it to the next level. Thank you.
45:49.00
fallowfieldmason
And they have built a skincare community in communities very much at the heart of their business I wanted Well they wanted to ask you How important is community to you in business.
45:58.65
Joanna
They hugely hugely. Um, they do your marketing for you. They tell tell their opinion Honestly, um and they will tell you they will. Give feedback to you in a way that no one else will your family and friends will always just sugarcoat everything. Of course they are other than my mother who's too Honestly honest, it's actually slightly infuriating. Um, but no I think Community is everything they can do so much for you. We We used to have a um.
46:18.42
fallowfieldmason
They're biased. They can't help it.
46:32.10
Joanna
We still do um our brand our ambassadors at Charles Farm but at the beginning they were the core of everything they would sample at the school gates. They would be posting on Facebook they were just passionate. They were as passionate as we were about the brand and without them.
46:50.35
Joanna
And without those wonderful stories that were shared. We wouldn't be where we are now.
46:53.38
fallowfieldmason
Amazing. Thank you and do you have a question for the next guest which I actually can't tell you who it's going to be because our diaries keep moving but a new founder or sorry another entrepreneur around sustainability. Ideally.
47:04.30
Joanna
Another entrepreneur around sustainability I would say to them that if you could have changed the way you started your sustainability path. What would you have done differently to help others not make the same mistakes or longevity or the things that delayed you getting to where you needed to be and.
47:35.99
fallowfieldmason
Perfect I'm writing that down because I often get to the next recording like um it I didn't write it down. No no.
54:00.54
fallowfieldmason
But thank you, it's been very inspiring talking to you oh god thank you I feel yeah, very.
54:11.92
Joanna
Well, really nice to talk to you and well done on your business.