When starting a business, founders have the opportunity to start with a clean slate as well as start as they mean to go on. So the aim of this season is to share as much as we can on how businesses can start with ethical practice at their core.
We’re all aware of how certain industries do a lot of damage. For example, fashion is responsible for 10% of global man-made greenhouse gas emissions [BBC], however the second any business owners turn on a light, they have a responsibility to the planet.
In this episode, I speak with Ginnie Chadwyck-Healy, founder of VCH Style. Ginnie is an environmentally conscious stylist and fashion writer, who champions considered consumption and a more mindful approach to purchasing products. The former Retail Editor of Vogue, now a contributor to The Telegraph and Grazia, Ginnie became self-employed to help guide her clients in purchasing fewer, higher-quality items and share her philosophy of shopping sustainably.
Given brands and businesses are all keen to secure editorial press coverage, I was keen to speak to Ginnie about how we can pitch to her with information that she really wants to hear about, how to avoid greenwashing and some simple do’s and don’ts when it comes to sustainable PR messaging.
Ginnie’s advice:
If you'd like to contact Ginnie you can reach her via https://www.vchstyle.com/contact
FF&M enables you to own your own PR. We also offer podcast production services.
Recorded, edited & published by Juliet Fallowfield, 2023 MD & Founder of PR & Communications consultancy for startups Fallow, Field & Mason. Email us at hello@fallowfieldmason.com or DM us on instagram @fallowfieldmason.
Let us know how your start up journey is going or if you have any questions you would like us to discuss in future episodes.
FF&M recommends:
When starting a business, founders have the opportunity to start with a clean slate as well as start as they mean to go on. So the aim of this season is to share as much as we can on how businesses can start with ethical practice at their core.
We’re all aware of how certain industries do a lot of damage. For example, fashion is responsible for 10% of global man-made greenhouse gas emissions [BBC], however the second any business owners turn on a light, they have a responsibility to the planet.
In this episode, I speak with Ginnie Chadwyck-Healy, founder of VCH Style. Ginnie is an environmentally conscious stylist and fashion writer, who champions considered consumption and a more mindful approach to purchasing products. The former Retail Editor of Vogue, now a contributor to The Telegraph and Grazia, Ginnie became self-employed to help guide her clients in purchasing fewer, higher-quality items and share her philosophy of shopping sustainably.
Given brands and businesses are all keen to secure editorial press coverage, I was keen to speak to Ginnie about how we can pitch to her with information that she really wants to hear about, how to avoid greenwashing and some simple do’s and don’ts when it comes to sustainable PR messaging.
Ginnie’s advice:
If you'd like to contact Ginnie you can reach her via https://www.vchstyle.com/contact
FF&M enables you to own your own PR. We also offer podcast production services.
Recorded, edited & published by Juliet Fallowfield, 2023 MD & Founder of PR & Communications consultancy for startups Fallow, Field & Mason. Email us at hello@fallowfieldmason.com or DM us on instagram @fallowfieldmason.
Let us know how your start up journey is going or if you have any questions you would like us to discuss in future episodes.
FF&M recommends:
01:45.19
Ginnie
Thank you so much for having me. It's an honor to be on a podcast like this. So I guess if you googled me Juliet you would discover that either I worked at Vogue for 12 years Orlthough I had postnatal depression. So it's really quite a varied background on Google but the reality is I did work at vogue. Ah for 12 years I was the retail editor so sort of spanned commercial and editorial and that really and came to an end Sadly after I realized I couldn't. Be a mother and work and commute so something had to go and so bch style which is my brand now literally my initials um is really a platform but it condenses everything that I did at vogue. But I do it for myself. So I do. Written work for the telegraph and gracia and I present and I do content because it's all about content now. But my big focus is on how we can shop with greater awareness and become more conscious about the way that we consume fashion and it's a huge problem. It's a huge task. And it's not something I really thought I was going to get into. But ultimately I am a sustainable fashion advocate I guess.
03:01.52
fallowfieldmason
Well congratulations because we need more of you. That's for certain and it's wonderful because you can see both sides of the puzzle you've come from working with a big magazine house and publication and big brands and big advertisers and now you're free and autonomous to work with brands that you really respect. And you really admire and form and edit for consumers. So when I'm reading Gratsia and I can see watch brands. You're writing about in your page and your column I feel more informed. Why is it that you oh how is it. You've ended up doing this was it a natural passion or something you just feel really strongly about.
03:37.99
Ginnie
So after I left vogue I I we were living in the country. We'd moved out six years ago I just had my second baby I I did have postnatal that is completely true, but that's for another podcast. But um I realized that the women I was. Becoming friends with meeting on the school run or you know just bumping into my day-to-day they were the consumers that all these brands were trying to target okay on the whole rise and yet these women were so confused by the noise that was being shouted at they didn't know what trend they meant to have. Ah, clothing at that stage because I was a bit in a dark place was a bit like an armor so it was like oh wow, you've got the new bloodab blah and I just thought there is so much noise and all the magazines seem to be churning out. These are what you need. 10 things to have on your wish list 20 things to own for spring 5 items you should pack in your handbag 10 things. You can't live without this season and I just thought this is a perpetual cycle of confusion of consumerism at a rate that quite frankly, the worlds can't afford and the planet shouldn't have to put up with. So I I literally wrote the article for stellar magazine which was um I used to work at vogue. But these these are the clothes I really wear and it it was never to Dis Vogue I absolutely love my time there and I would absolutely play it all over again. It was such a happy career there. But ultimately what vogue was putting out.
05:06.47
Ginnie
And what real women that I certainly was meeting was such a disconnect and I felt like being the person that said you don't have to pine for all these things you don't have to buy into every trend. Not every trend will suit you and that's okay and so naturally it became a bit of a rebellion like you know. Slow down and stop shopping and do you really need to hit the sale rail again and you you really need to follow that oversized collar trend in 17 different color ways you really only need one great one so it it was completely organic and then I got caught up in more of the science and statistics. Not caught up I got I was carried I guess it's a positive and so naturally I've kind of moved into sustainability from a completely organic place I know a lot of people who have worked in publishing have also done the same. So perhaps it's ah, a slight kind of rebellious spirit or perhaps it's just addressing. Very fact that at a certain point in your life when you have more important things than the need to save up for the latest trend. Um, it's okay to say do you know what? I was wrong twelve years ago and actually what you really need now is these kind of. Pieces or and that's really genuinely where it came from.
06:26.31
fallowfieldmason
That's fascinating and I was really excited to talk to you about this because you have the journalistic background and you'll have brands pitching to you to get in your columns and get that Pr and editorial awareness and there's so many things I want to talk to you about what to do? What not to do when pitching to someone around sustainable and inverted commons brands because. Ultimately the second to use electricity. You're not sustainable. Um, but the fact that I we met way back when I was at Chanele you're at vogue. There were 8 collections for fashion a year and it was that churn and I mean insanely beautiful collections but the advertising calendar was marketed around. It.
06:44.50
Ginnie
Yeah, yeah.
07:02.55
fallowfieldmason
Everything was around this calendar. You worked the marketings calendar and it was on to the next onto to the next onto the next same with editorial. You're on to the next issue and 1 boss once said to me is like great results. But you're only as good as your last month's worth of coverage. It's like that feeling and especially when now you're self-employed yet. You can never do enough. It probably hasn't ever left me but with fashion.
07:08.95
Ginnie
Um, yeah.
07:17.15
Ginnie
Yeah, yeah.
07:22.16
fallowfieldmason
To placate the big brands that are the advertisers to keep publications in business. We have seen this enormous shift with the big brands changing how they're developing their collections. What success looks like to them in terms of feasibility of how many pieces people should buy. You see selfages doing rentals. You know it has all changed in the last few years which is incredibly exciting. But what's your take on that.
07:50.10
Ginnie
So I'm I'm really um, pleased to see this conversation being had at. For instance, the business. The fashion forum and they had ah a big question basically was put out to some of the big ceos saying you know. If. It's really about slowing down then that means less profit and and that was quite a massive question to put to these huge brands I've just seen um the the top ones at the moment. It's Chanel d or gucci that's the running order today in June and.
08:10.92
fallowfieldmason
Um.
08:22.47
Ginnie
You know they've got targets to not just meet but they've got to beat them. They've got shareholders to keep sweet some of them and they've got bonuses to pay and ultimately ah you only achieve that by by selling more product and making more money and.
08:27.40
fallowfieldmason
Um, who.
08:40.40
Ginnie
Maybe marking up products to a higher extent than you did two or three years ago and we've seen that you know perhaps you know the demand in China meant that people could really mark up goods a lot higher than the and they would have done a few years ago but I I grapple still with that. Need to create more um just to hit not just hit but beat targets so I actually don't have the right answer. It's something I I am sort of really brainstorming. But ultimately I think capitalism. We need to a certain extent but I think there's got to be a way where you have. People planet and profit on an even keel or a much more even more more balance keel and at the moment the ceos of some of these companies are making such huge amounts of money and bonuses that it's still a huge disconnect with the people who are ultimately making the product and I think we need to see more of a.
09:21.98
fallowfieldmason
Um, yeah.
09:37.49
Ginnie
A tilt of if you like for that to become a fairer way of living and I think the fairness has to be something that we all begin to understand is look. This might be a pipe dream of mine. But I Just think we have to perhaps approach ah retail in it in a. Different way that is more balanced and it it really comes down to that I mean I've got friends who work in stock markets. They think I'm mad and I'm also got friends who work with these big companies in M and a you know that kind of world and they're like.
09:58.60
fallowfieldmason
Um.
10:11.82
Ginnie
We cannot look at a brand now and tech until they show us what their sustainability credentials are so you've got 2 very opposing sides yet, we're all everyone's trying to make money. Oh I can't hear you oh there, you are yeah I can hear you.
10:16.56
fallowfieldmason
Yeah, well this is what I'm hearing well vcs are saying we're only going to oh testing testing hello hello hello hello um. This is what I'm seeing a lot is in the Vc world that they will only invest in brands that have an esd framework from the get-go and our learnings through going through the vcorp process was that you have to be profitable before you can save people on planet. But you you raise in a very very penant point of like how much profit.
10:35.40
Ginnie
This.
10:48.63
fallowfieldmason
Because if maybe less is more at that top end of that curve and it equals out and that that I can't think of the economics I'll come up with it later but where the people who are really profiting at that top end can take less and benefit more of the stakeholders across the whole production line.
10:48.90
Ginnie
Um, yeah.
11:00.65
Ginnie
E.
11:06.22
Ginnie
Um, yeah.
11:08.59
fallowfieldmason
That's maybe where we'll see the shift Um, given that you are a journalist first and foremost and you're working for Gratia air Walk. You're writing for gratia in the telegraph If. There's brand that wants to picture to you? What are your top tricks and tips for them to. Now I'm going to rephrase this question because this is really important and given that a lot of our listeners will have started businesses and be looking to editorial and trying to work out how to get into magazines I often see brands.
11:28.72
Ginnie
Um, okay yeah, ah.
11:43.50
fallowfieldmason
Greenwash but I'm now seeing lots of brands Green Hush so they don't talk about what they're doing where is that happy point of pitching to you and in the email title making sure it stands out to you as a writer our sustainable Brand X Y and Z sustainable to me as a Pr ah doesn't hold any weight anymore to.
12:01.63
Ginnie
Um, no.
12:02.22
fallowfieldmason
Journalist What would make a standout pitch for you to consider that brand sustainable.
12:04.89
Ginnie
So first of all on that I have to make a point. Um I would say using Instagram Dms as a way to make pitch is not in my book. A really successful way to approach someone because oh really, ah.
12:17.53
fallowfieldmason
Thank you because so many feel I'll just D end the Journalist and it's like no no, no, that's not going to really? yeah.
12:24.72
Ginnie
Really is and that's not I don't think that's us. Um, you know revealing our age Julia I think actually you've got to approach it as you would work and I do not want I know my work is partly on social media but there is no way that I'm monitoring my Dms as I would my work email inbox. So forget the Dms it's really I would say um a waste of your time and make it more professional and then I'll take it a bit more seriously because as a whole inbox I haven't even opened just just to tell everybody I don't have a team monitoring my social media. It's just me. Um.
12:57.47
fallowfieldmason
And ultimately to get a link to get a high-res you need the email platform from a functional perspective. It needs to be in the email format and everyone's like you need to be on slack. You need to be on Linkedin. It's like no for a pitch it has to be email I know there are journalists that do like Dms to the initial the initial hook but that's very few.
12:59.21
Ginnie
And I would rather communicate. Yes yes, Also I No yes.
13:16.34
Ginnie
No I don't I'm just say right now I don't ah I I also I think you um well I miss a lot in my Dms a bit like you miss a whatsapp if you don't read and reply straight away so an inbox just feels much more professional. Um.
13:17.43
fallowfieldmason
Very few thank Eugenie. Um.
13:29.92
fallowfieldmason
Um.
13:33.89
Ginnie
On the subject of green washing versus green hushing. No one's perfect and I think this is the next tagline we're going to be seeing so look out for this. No one's perfect, but it's all about making a start so I just did a project with Westfield and I knew in my mind I was like this is. This is a bit of a disconnect but actually Westfield across Europe ran a sustainability festival the good festival across every single and shopping center that they own in Europe across the same period of time and I thought you know what it is a start and everything they did and that they incorporated against I admit a backdrop of. Some of the biggest farsh fashion names in the world I was like you know what? at least they're trying and they were supporting people that have no marketing spend that have no bricks and mortar that have literally you know, no no chance of really being heard unless they they can get in front of people's noses. So. So if Westfield can do it then I think a lot of people can do it but mostly no one's perfect. We've got to start somewhere and I think we've got to approach it as less shaming and more nurturing of new ideas. It's as simple as that. So if you want to get my attention person also also um if you want to get my attention. You can just personalize the title because so often it's a new launch and it says dear Jennifer and you're like oh and I delete it if it can't even say my name I'm really sorry but I delete it so I know that Pr's have a huge job in doing all sorts of mail merging.
15:02.60
fallowfieldmason
Um, yeah.
15:08.41
Ginnie
Cleverness which I can't even do. But ultimately if you're targeting someone with a story on sustainability people like me I think are still in the minority in terms of the audience that you're trying to target ah of Journalists I mean so so if you can take the time Tailor a pit and no one reads email.
15:20.95
fallowfieldmason
Um, you can take the time to Tailor a pitch. Yeah.
15:26.59
Ginnie
Sorry to also say there's no one reads emails. So Keep it to 3 lines and my ah final piece of advice is if you know if we have any kind of mutual contact that will also grab my attention So so and so At. Yaddi Ya suggested I contact you you know or Soand so I met Soand so for a meeting the other day I gather you know each other we were discussing how you might be interested in this but buth because it just personalizes it and I'm more likely to you know anchor. Great Word. Yes.
15:51.49
fallowfieldmason
It anchors it in actually a real email rather than the blast I feel like it's something that we teach our clients a lot. It's like also do as you would be done by I'm so sick of getting spammed on Linkedin and in my inbox of.
15:57.55
Ginnie
The Anchor drop the anchor. Ah.
16:08.12
fallowfieldmason
We think we can improve your website is like I don't have time for that unsubscribe and you have to be gdpr compliant when you're blasting your email so roxilll is an amazing media directory that will let you build emails in their platform and blast. But you can send to thousands for people for me to land a story in your column. It is such unique column that the.
16:13.25
Ginnie
Write.
16:26.68
fallowfieldmason
There is no blast attached to it. It needs to be a completely tailored pitch to products and stories and angles that would work for you so when it comes to an ethically minded or sustainably focused brand that you might want to write about what do you see like 10 a penny. What is not new news anymore to you.
16:29.13
Ginnie
E.
16:45.60
Ginnie
Ah, oh I think lots of brands doing rental I Sort of think is that not the death of retail if a big brand is now doing rental as well and are you doing it to tick a box or is it actually going to work or does it undermine your fulls sale full price product Sorry that's just me, you know.
17:02.90
fallowfieldmason
Um.
17:02.80
Ginnie
Thinking I'm not going to mention names. Um I I like Charity link up still that actually are not just a flash in the pan I I like kind of prolonged stage 1 stage 2 and eventually we would like to get to stage 3 of this partnership. Um to be. Honest I'm still open to everything I Love ideas. That's probably why I do what I do I Love new ideas fresh ideas. But I Also love the merging of fashion and Science. So anyone that is linking up with with scientists who. Quite frankly, never thought that they would be seen in the fashion space I find that particularly interesting and um, totally yeah if you're any kind of oh why? Sorry sorry is going funny.
17:39.18
fallowfieldmason
Well, it's backing it up presumably with good statistics and actual proof. Yeah hello who know.
17:53.10
Ginnie
Did you hear that also Julie it's saying disk is almost full. What does that mean is that my computer not liking it. Okay, okay, okay, um, er so what was this.
17:56.71
fallowfieldmason
Oh don't worry yes, but it doesn't matter because I can still see it's recording it. It does it it records in 2 places for safety so that's just one down so that's right.
18:10.41
Ginnie
So yes, I'm interested by the fusion of fashion and science I'm interested in charity linkups that are more than you know one month long and I'm I'm in I'm less interested in what am I less interested in. Well I quite loved that boo boo boohoos sent me a press release the other day about their sustainability initiative and that went straight in the bin but just I know I just I'm so like ah still quite appalled by that brand. So um, they've got to do more than.
18:31.47
fallowfieldmason
Really why.
18:44.10
Ginnie
Send me a generic email I'd quite like a meeting with them to be honest, if you're listening.
18:47.87
fallowfieldmason
Ah, well you heard it here first. Yeah and so that's the thing I feel like a lot of this season. We've talked about the fact that new founders which is our audience ah have an opportunity to start for good and they have a complete blank canvas to start as I mean to go on and many people I've interviewed have said. You can get your structure your process your systems your values your culture all of it in a good shape at the beginning when you're small. It just saves you so much time when you start to grow because I've hit 3 year Mark and my goodness you feel the stretch and we've got.
19:12.45
Ginnie
And.
19:17.91
Ginnie
Yes.
19:20.77
fallowfieldmason
Had a new just starter yesterday who came on board I just got to say I really impressed with the processes. It's like yeah I've got ocd I have to have bandwidth and anything to automate it was yuan yong from um, out the magazine who said automat to make delegate solve I think it was back in season 2 and my god it's helped me with time.
19:26.20
Ginnie
I Love your processes. Yeah.
19:38.90
Ginnie
I'm writing that down automate delegate solve. She's writing it down I'm not that person. Okay.
19:40.50
fallowfieldmason
Yeah, but I think especially when you're becoming to your best business practice and within that becomes sustainable and ethical practice starting as you mean to go on means you will be that force for good. You will be leading the charge and you won't have to unpick anything later.
19:51.98
Ginnie
Yep.
19:56.75
Ginnie
Yeah.
19:59.60
fallowfieldmason
And so a brand like boohoo for example, have a lot of work to do to undo some of the damage or lot of the damage. They may have done have you seen any particular interesting pitches come away that have shown that they're capable of doing that it may they may not have done yet. But.
20:04.23
Ginnie
Um, yeah.
20:15.44
Ginnie
Um, I mean let's just take this morning as an example of how I spent today because it's less about a pitch but more about me having my mindset changed um boots the big pharmaceutical. Retailer I think it lost its way a little bit possibly other boutique websites came along and and were much more sexy and you know I'm not someone who would buy my beauty products direct from the brand's website. Ah I don't think many people are so boots has a huge hold over that market. And I was looking I was researching how to recycle beauty packaging because it is really difficult and that was my latest column but also makeup compacts lip gloss you know all the little bits and pieces that clutter our makeup bags or beauty cabinets and I it boots.
20:55.57
fallowfieldmason
Yes, the plastics.
21:09.51
Ginnie
I have so far found is 1 of the few brands and there are a handful of others but boots as as a brand I would trust put it that way. Um, they are creating a buyback scheme of any branded packaging as long as you scan it. With your camera and then they will assess it and then you take it in and you get 500 boots advantage card points when you also spend £10 but £10 is manageable. It's not 20 so it's it's not kind of off limits to most people and you might be replenishing. Whatever you're recycling and I just thought.
21:35.29
fallowfieldmason
Um, yeah.
21:42.57
Ginnie
Clever you because you lost your way. You're not very sexy. You're massive in in terms of beauty and cosmetics retail and you know you're not a cult beauty and you're not a Herod's beauty hall or a selfish as beauty hall but they were kind of they knew they had to vie with the supermarkets as well who have now bought in a lot more kind of.
21:48.28
fallowfieldmason
Um.
22:02.14
Ginnie
Sexi brands and m ands is now quite a big beauty retailer and I thought well done for you know, sticking to the sustainability message in a way that is actually it rewards us not just with a feel good factor and. I went further to see if there was anywhere near me because I'm in the country that might actually take back my products and there is and it's not too far whereas a lot of the times. It's only available in London and I just it was a refreshing kind of reassessment of a brand that I haven't really shopped at and perhaps.
22:27.90
fallowfieldmason
Um.
22:35.47
Ginnie
Maybe only at airports and so it was um, a good learning curve. They've definitely I've signed up and you know my vantage card is still in my maiden name even though I've been married 10 years. So it's like I haven't used it in a long time but they've they've got me back and actually I've got one step further in trying to set up a meeting with them because they need to shout about this service a lot more.
22:38.25
fallowfieldmason
They're getting your loyalty back? yeah.
22:45.64
fallowfieldmason
Um, yeah.
22:53.16
fallowfieldmason
Um, yeah.
22:55.20
Ginnie
But it's things like that where it just takes one moment of oh okay, yeah I haven't tapped into as a consumer but I'm going to now research this on behalf of Gratsia and it just changed my perception but there are so many brands out there that have started from a great point. You know you've got the likes of Navy Grey you've got. All birds doing hugely well in America and beyond you know they've just gone public. You've got um you know the jury's out on Adidas I seems to be bombarded by aed ass shoes at the moment. Um, advertising at me and I'm trying not to buy yet another pair but but I think they've got the power and the money to do. To to do more. So let's not kind of have a go at them just yet and then there are other brands which I don't know enough about the beauty market but I think the likes of um ah is it lush or hush lush.
23:43.00
fallowfieldmason
Yes.
23:45.36
Ginnie
Likes of Lush um doing brilliantly in terms of their packaging they and the other day in store. They weren't offering gift wrapping they were using deadstop fabric and you would then tie up the the bath bomb in ah in a bit of deadstop fabric and I just thought that's a simple way to cut a lot of waste. Um for the consumer and probably cut costs.
24:00.70
fallowfieldmason
Um, yeah.
24:04.95
Ginnie
The retailer as well. So it's just little nuggets that I that really bring me joy and and I have to say now I'm never tasked by either the telegraph or Grantsia to cover advertisers and that is the most refreshing part of this. So so I'm fully.
24:15.97
fallowfieldmason
Wow. Okay, so that is huge. Can you say that again without your hand over your face say that all again. But yeah.
24:21.28
Ginnie
I am fully autonomous with what I write about? Oh yes, sorry um, ah I would say now and what I love most writing for the telegraph and grazia is that I am never tasked with covering Advertisers. So I've asked. Every time because it's ingrained in me from vogue. Any Advertisers I need to sport and the answer is always no and that for me is is the kind of autonomy that I was always yearning for and at vogue pure edit that is yeah.
24:49.87
fallowfieldmason
Well that to me is pure. That's pure editorial. That's pure ethical practice. So you're not being in Ver Comma as bribed by an advertising budget to support them an editorial. What your reader will be reading your genuine opinion which a lot of people.
24:59.54
Ginnie
No.
25:05.75
Ginnie
Genuine which is really hard for Pr ah to then pitch to you because they can't say but we advertise because it's just what's going on in my mind and what I want to write about but um.
25:15.35
fallowfieldmason
Nope I love that because there's so many people like me who are supporting brands that have a 0 advertising budget and it is a pure story and I think a lot of people don't understand the difference between advertising editorial and so paid owned and earned and if anyone has any questions please contact me because we can give you a paragraph on each. But. When you have a big advertiser in a magazine and magazines are businesses and people forget this. They need to profit their asset is their editorial page which has value which means you can't put that editorial on your commercial website and sell from it. So there's all sorts of things you got to think about it from a business perspective which is what was interesting. You said about boots.
25:35.29
Ginnie
Yeah, yeah.
25:45.71
Ginnie
Um, yeah.
25:50.61
fallowfieldmason
Because they're making it a really clever business decision. They will profit from this but it's also doing the right thing. So if you can tick both of those boxes you're giving the feel good factor to the consumer you're helping a bottom line which in turn gives more budget back into the business to then do more good.
25:52.50
Ginnie
Um, yes, yeah yeah.
26:08.47
fallowfieldmason
That sort of almost that full circle effect is super exciting and if you're not having to write about advertisers. Your readership will go up the clicks will go through because people are genuinely enjoying your stories and those publications will benefit too so it seems to be like a no-brainer.
26:25.56
Ginnie
Well I think hatie Brett editor of Grazia is to be applauded because ah, honestly, it just took me emailing her to say hatsie I've got some ideas can we have a coffee and she's so on board with it that it actually makes me think Grasia is like a little bit ahead of the curve in. Insert in certain ways in terms of sustainability and she just commissioned 2 much bigger pieces on it so that will come out. Um later in the summer so so it's a it's a small column but it's it's growing. Yes, as long as it doesn't save sustainability I think we just need to kind of get away from that word. There's got to be.
26:49.57
fallowfieldmason
Which also means the reader wants it.
27:02.54
fallowfieldmason
Um, yeah.
27:59.39
fallowfieldmason
What to you is the definition of sustainability in this esg world.
28:03.47
Ginnie
Well I prefer the word transparency and I just yeah I just think I try to be a transparent person therefore why wouldn't I want to be a transparent customer or brand if I you know was selling products and I do think the people at the top of the. Um, pyramid as it were should really have a knowledge of where the bottom of their supply chain starts and who the people are that begin the whole process of production of a product that makes them in so in many cases billions of dollars so for me it's more about transparency and really taking the time to meet the people making your clothes even if that means traveling and that's what I noticed a lot with a lot of the independent brands that have had a huge success coming out of covid when we were all sort of inspired by the independent brands growing on social media. I think they all have taken a huge step in visiting those people who make their products and I'm not saying that means their product's perfect, but even to travel to India Bangladesh portugal turkey wherever it is I think that says a lot because.
29:15.40
fallowfieldmason
They're looking them in the eye. Yeah yeah.
29:17.20
Ginnie
Exactly that's a really good that's that's it looking them in the eye and vetting certificates. You know, understanding standards negotiating in real time with people who I do I just think it makes it much more of a human interaction and okay, you can't do that. Perhaps. If you are the ceo actually you can do that if you're the Ceo of added ass. Whatever it is but um, you know when you've got multiple suppliers across the globe. Perhaps that's more difficult but I I think as your business grows globally you probably have to take that transparency responsibility much more seriously and and. Have a team dedicated to it. But you know that will come in time but it's just having yeah I learnt that from doing ah and ah a collaboration with a tiny and but very successful nip nightware brand. If only if last year and 2022 my first ever collaboration and it was.
29:54.20
fallowfieldmason
Yeah, and invest in it.
30:11.62
Ginnie
It was really personal both with Emily the the owner but also her interactions with the design teams and she designs but you know liaison with the factories who are making her product and the tweaks and and they got it so right that we had one set of samples. So if you imagine we could have got it really wrong and had 6 sets of samples. But that's because her relationship with her supplier is so strong and the communication is so clear and the trust is there. We just had one set of samples and we reduced the waste hugely. So um, it does pay off I think.
30:42.41
fallowfieldmason
Yeah, well that relationship building across any element of business when you're starting up is so important I think we talk about remote working and it's great to give freedom and autonomy. But that in-person relationship. You can build when you see people face to face is like nothing else.
30:47.45
Ginnie
Take the time.
31:00.84
fallowfieldmason
So it's finding that blend and finding where that time is invested across supplier relationships or team relationships or client relationships. You have to have a relationship and we know face-to-face. You get a different body language a different chemical connection to somebody.
31:00.87
Ginnie
Um, yeah.
31:07.90
Ginnie
Um, yeah.
31:15.35
fallowfieldmason
It reminds you of actually Sophie bright mayor notting hill-based jeweller she went out to Africa to the mine to see where I think it was turmalines were being sourced and she went down the mine. She's like I want to know where they're coming from with my own eyes. So I can look my client in the iron notting hill and tell them I've seen it I know where it's from and that especially in jewelry.
31:15.99
Ginnie
He.
31:23.62
Ginnie
Um, yeah, yeah, yeah I love that it's very difficult.
31:34.30
fallowfieldmason
It's it's so yeah, it's and Ruth Thomas has just launched a marine collection with ocean diamonds because she wants to know that that wearer can know exactly where that diamond has come from and that a diver found it for them so that connection to jewi because jury so emotive is super important anyway, sorry I'm switching into my debmark. Um.
31:38.56
Ginnie
E.
31:47.33
Ginnie
Um, yeah.
31:52.40
Ginnie
No I love that I actually ah really another good example is the Jacksons it's just tiny boutique in Notting Hill and louise the owner goes to Bangladesh to work with the women who are making these incredible jute bags which are now sold.
31:53.65
fallowfieldmason
But.
32:08.90
Ginnie
You know, everywhere in the yeah Uk As far as I can tell and um, but she sticks to her guns and she goes out visits them for not just a day or ah or a weekend. It's a good amount of time and that's a regular part of her working calendar. So she if anyone wants a mentor. She'd be a great place person to speak to.
32:27.15
fallowfieldmason
Um, well I was good to say she's going to write. Thanks Jenny but given if people are starting out where where should they go to to learn more. Are there some resources you recommend that they tap into where should they start.
32:27.85
Ginnie
I'm just going to throw her that out there.
32:40.24
Ginnie
Oh oh my god that's like a billion bullet point question and I'll be honest I started just because I thought oh god I've got to have a business card and I've got to have a holding page or landing page. Whatever it's called so I never wrote a business plan.
32:43.41
fallowfieldmason
It's It's huge.
32:59.64
Ginnie
Sorry I'm that person. Ah, but where do they start I mean I Ah okay, okay.
32:59.88
fallowfieldmason
Um, no, don't worry.
33:04.20
fallowfieldmason
But to to to inform them about sustainable choices is it finding other brands ten years ahead of them or a mentor like we've been advised previously to download the b court framework even if you're not going to do it because it gives you a really good checklist of things where anything that's up, you. A link that we could share with someone that they might be able to tap into.
33:22.97
Ginnie
So actually it's not and a single source but I always say to anyone who and often says how do I get into fashion I say look at the brands that you admire look at the brands that you shop from. So if you're starting out as a entrepreneur or founder look at the brands. You would like to be in ten or fifteen years time see if they've even got a sustainability angle to their website or they can give you any answers but understand the the necessary framework of because everybody breaks it down into ah a pretty basic framework no matter how big your business is. And I I do love? Um, what do I love of god yeah I don't know if this is a great question I don't think there are any sources I can actually list I don't I think it's too general. Yeah there's not a.
34:05.10
fallowfieldmason
I Know don't worry we can cut it out. No no, we'll cut it. It's vast. That's the thing I think and so no, don't worry because this is about them pitching so in terms of what? yeah.
34:17.51
Ginnie
Unless I can think on. Yeah, go back to that side. Sorry.
34:23.97
fallowfieldmason
No, no, no, this is what this is great about being pre-recorded I Love this because your nose about one day we'll do an outtake because there' was someone that just couldn't say they just kept getting tongue tied over with really keyword and it was just eriff. Um and then yeah, there's other stories for other days. But so if.
34:25.93
Ginnie
Um, yeah.
34:36.79
Ginnie
Ah, ah.
34:41.23
fallowfieldmason
If you could wave a magic wand and all of the pitches to land in your inbox were a certain thing. What would you like to see more of and brands pitching to you or less of in those 3 sentences. What do they need to tell you.
34:48.67
Ginnie
Oh oh my goodness. Well okay here goes this is really.
34:59.80
fallowfieldmason
You not to delete their email and I should say just for listeners. It's not just you deletes emails I know editors that will delete 400 emails they get a day buy the email title. They won't even open them so editors are bombarded and they need to filter so I'm sticking up for editors here that you need to filter some way somehow.
35:03.84
Ginnie
I'd like to have it. Oh.
35:11.35
Ginnie
Um, yeah.
35:18.12
fallowfieldmason
So for them to land and get a reply. What what do you? want to see.
35:21.37
Ginnie
Okay, I've probably got 3 things. Um, if you're going to invite me to an event I wouldn't send it this week for next week it just makes me realize that I was zed list and actually I have the.
35:34.92
fallowfieldmason
Got you.
35:38.21
Ginnie
Quite a busy schedule. Um I would love more meetings I think we've sadly fallen into a trap of hiding and behind zooms. So but equally a lot of people like myself have moved out of London and days.
35:48.70
fallowfieldmason
Um, yeah.
35:53.50
Ginnie
In the office or in London are few and far between if if you work in London or perhaps it's Manchester wherever it might be um so really try and um plot a back to back day of in-person meetings. Um, so it's really hard because everybody's workdays are ah very different to yours perhaps. But. I like that and then oh short and sweet and me personally don't go overboard on the gifting I'm not I'm not interested in in the gifting. Yeah, and also don't send me things without asking if I would like them. it's it's ah
36:23.82
fallowfieldmason
It's wastage again. Yeah.
36:28.92
fallowfieldmason
Yeah, every gemist is the same is because you feel like you've got that carbon footprint on your shoulders then and you know it's going to be wasted. Yeah.
36:32.81
Ginnie
I mean I'm amazed. Yeah and the recycling and the you know I'm staring I won't list the brand So I'm staring at things that I didn't ask for and I didn't yeah I Definitely don't yeah so so I actually think if you're going to gift because there's a lot of gifting.
36:42.69
fallowfieldmason
Yeah, so the wastage is huge.
36:52.22
Ginnie
Ask the person would you like to choose a ah piece and here's the thing you know here's the choice and if you're going to send that send it in recyclable cardboard packaging if possible because again I've had lots of sustainable projects and launches that are sent huge press releases that I'm never going to read.
36:53.68
fallowfieldmason
Um, yeah.
37:00.30
fallowfieldmason
Are.
37:09.40
fallowfieldmason
Are.
37:10.96
Ginnie
On kind of cardboard paper with a plastic sheen to it that I can't do anything with it's just like a constant contradiction. So um, exact it just I've actually complained to a shampoo brand before it's like you can't send a shampoo bar and be all you know So all.
37:15.63
fallowfieldmason
And yet they're claiming to be sustainable. Yeah.
37:24.89
fallowfieldmason
Um, food.
37:28.74
Ginnie
What's it. What's the thing all singing or dancing shampoo bar but it came in a box the size of a shoe box and it was just a total waste of space literally like you could do something so much more clever than that and that's probably what I'd say.
37:32.40
fallowfieldmason
Um.
37:38.90
fallowfieldmason
Um, yeah, well my first ever dear client seated Queen were like we' a startup we have no budget. Do we have to gift and I was like well let's just do it when we get a warm lead I will pitch see if there's interests if there's interest then we'll post royal mail.
37:49.22
Ginnie
Um, yeah, yeah.
37:54.41
Ginnie
In.
37:54.72
fallowfieldmason
Said it's taken us 3 years to get the right cap that's recyclable and recycled and you know they really wanted to do it the right way. It's like we don't want to waste budget and we don't want waste product so it works both ways from the bottom line and the environment it ticks both boxes. So no pun intended.
38:01.74
Ginnie
Um, yeah, yeah.
38:10.12
Ginnie
But also why didn't you combine combine it like Combine an in-person meeting with the chance to have a look and and offer something from the new collection because that's how you'll get most people in it's still quite quite hideous to admit. But I mean you know just the way it works.
38:10.58
fallowfieldmason
But so um, so to check that you're interested.
38:17.49
fallowfieldmason
Um, yeah, the product and yeah, yeah, yeah, any last Golden nugget pieces of advice. You'd like to offer someone who's starting a business.
38:27.90
Ginnie
No.
38:33.18
Ginnie
Ah, don't feel like you have to get it all done. You know in the first month or year or first set of accounts like don't panic I'm saying this six years in I definitely have moments of panic like I haven't written the business plan. Um. Find a business mentor. You know I have a business coach who I meet with once a month via Zoom and because I work on my own It's just a moment to say to to basically brain dump and either get um approval.
38:49.99
fallowfieldmason
Um, yep.
39:05.56
Ginnie
Or someone to say what the hell are you thinking? That's a total waste of time my agent. Yeah, my agent is brilliant like that as well because I'm you know working in this world. You're trying to get away from the whole influencer thing and more towards actual kind of systemic change if that if that's possible.
39:06.48
fallowfieldmason
Yeah, they pull you out the weeds. That's great.
39:24.53
fallowfieldmason
Um.
39:25.24
Ginnie
And a bit more research as well and mostly can I just say that if you are listening and you feel like you are always working free or giving away things for free or free product and nothing comes back like value yourself and others will value. You. So if you can't afford to gift 20 editors and it's really keeping you up at Night. Don't worry like just gift the 5 that you you really want to build a relationship and that sounds very crass and kind of oh it's all about gifting. We know how much gifting goes On. It's a real bugbear of mine. But.
39:48.17
fallowfieldmason
Are.
40:01.00
Ginnie
I don't think you need to kind of ah undervalue yourself you know from the outset you know what your product means you know how much value your product is to you and the design processes gone gone into it. Um, you know and your Pr team should.
40:04.75
fallowfieldmason
Yeah, absolutely.
40:15.51
fallowfieldmason
And ultimately yeah and if you have a genuinely exciting product. The story will stand on its own 2 legs via an email and hires image too and I feel like on that email pitch when they're sending those 3 sentences.
40:18.82
Ginnie
Agree with that as well.
40:24.90
Ginnie
Yeah.
40:32.33
fallowfieldmason
That first email just needs to get a reply the reply can then include the press release. The third answer can include the high-res you don't need to land the story in that first initial email you just need to peakque interest.
40:38.63
Ginnie
No, exactly.. That's a very good point often when I'm being told about a jewelry launch and I asked. I Then go back and I say can I see your certifications for the fair trade gold or whatever it is and it completely flummoes some people and I never never hear from them again. But just hold back your ammo as it were until someone bites and then you got more of a then you strike up a rappo over email because I was really impressed the other day with a brand that.
40:51.96
fallowfieldmason
Are.
41:03.71
fallowfieldmason
Yeah.
41:08.20
Ginnie
Had claimed. It was organic and isaac can I can I see your certification certification of Ecotex Organic um Cotton and they came back with it and I was like oh this is so refreshing or you know the luggage brand. Yeah yeah, it's.
41:14.70
fallowfieldmason
Yeah, he's a Gi who drives on all the certificates. Yeah.
41:22.75
Ginnie
I'm I'm sure I'm few and far between asking for that. But I do think um, it will come. It's it's coming more people will want to see validation of all these claims that are being made.
41:30.59
fallowfieldmason
But not just the journalists So we talk about B to C business to consumer. We talk about B to E business to employee employees are going to want to see the certification business to investor they're going to want see certification. You have to get your ducks in a row and you cannot go out to claim something unless you can back it up even if it's.
41:36.88
Ginnie
Conceives. Yeah yeah.
41:50.17
fallowfieldmason
Whatever stat you're putting against your pitch sustainably angled or not you have to be genuine and authentic with it and I think a lot of people like oh well, we'll just say this. It's like no no, that's a lie that's not going to wash and oh.
41:54.39
Ginnie
Yep.
41:58.29
Ginnie
Yeah I've seen a lot of that and I've seen a lot of that at events. So I'm like if you're going to go for a sustainability angle don't then have crazy amounts of wasted at an event. In fact, the coolest event I Went to recently they sent you home with a brown paper bag with a really nice product in admitted. But.
42:10.88
fallowfieldmason
Um.
42:17.38
fallowfieldmason
Um, yeah.
42:18.25
Ginnie
You know what to do with that brown paper bag. You're not left with like a ribbon that you've got to do something with and you know there are cool clever ways to make your Mark in someone's mind and that's ultimately what it's all about isn't it.
42:24.85
fallowfieldmason
Um, yeah.
42:27.98
fallowfieldmason
When we offset a press trip recently and we said we know it's better if we don't do this but given we want to take you to see the product and the founder. We'd rather offset it with a charity that meets 2 of the brands and un sustainability goals.
42:43.18
Ginnie
Um, Wow yeah.
42:44.16
fallowfieldmason
So it really genuinely dovetailed into the practice of the business because they were upcycling materials and it just for me from a Pr perspective. It ticked all the boxes. It was good messaging. It was authentic and it was real. Um and and it came with a so certificate as well. So I was like yes this is proven so something that we do with guests.
42:54.78
Ginnie
Um, yes.
43:03.62
fallowfieldmason
Is ah the guest before you which was Alex head founder of social pantry which is a gorgeous catering company that employs a lot of ah ex-convicts and rehabilitates someone to the workforce and her question for you is what is the biggest mistake that you've made in becoming your own boss and what did you learn from it.
43:06.22
Ginnie
E.
43:20.92
fallowfieldmason
I think it's something to say that every founder is like oh my goodness you make 90 minute mistakes and 1 good thing every day and get used to it but pick one of your favorites. What is the biggest mistake that you have made and when you've become your own boss and what have you learned from it.
43:28.46
Ginnie
So wait wait ask me again. It's gone from my mind.
43:39.98
Ginnie
Oh wow, That's a good question. Um I'm not good at delegating I need to delegate I'm going to take your automate delegate solve and and implement that I need to get a p a um okay I'll be honest.
43:51.39
fallowfieldmason
Um.
43:57.47
Ginnie
I Need to break up my week Muck much more rigorously than I do I do have children which slightly obviously means that I might have to kind of run and you know stop everything? Um, but they're getting a bit older.
44:04.25
fallowfieldmason
Full stop? yeah.
44:11.51
Ginnie
I would say try and lay out. Actually it was Johnny Bowden who taught me this try and lay out your weeks that you know that every Tuesday is competitor analysis every Wednesday is product analysis. Every Thursday is like let's just have a look at marketing social media like try and be a bit more constructive. With your week and and then obviously have meeting days going back to what I was saying earlier if you're not someone who lives in London like me have your meeting days and be strict with that and then for me I I love writing in the evenings. So it's more like have more structure to my week I should probably and implement that. Um.
44:40.72
fallowfieldmason
Um.
44:45.85
fallowfieldmason
Well, it's managing your own expectations as well. It's like for me I know that the podcast is better recorded at home because I don't have to book a meeting room worry. It's going to overrun so I have working from home Wednesdays and then we've got no meeting Mondays free for all Fridays I think someone came up withirsty thursdays.
44:53.60
Ginnie
Um, yeah, nice I Love that.
45:02.95
fallowfieldmason
I I can't remember what they were but it's basically because I needed a day where I didn't have any meetings because otherwise I got panicked but then I know that my future self and this is a colleague from Gra Hammer who's amazing. She's like I said look to her on a Friday afternoon and why are you frowning and say oh well I'm just wondering how Monday Hannah is going to feel about she's sitting there just about to leave on a friday.
45:06.18
Ginnie
Yes, me too.
45:18.41
Ginnie
Frowning fridays.
45:22.45
fallowfieldmason
Like what's up and she's like well I'm wondering how Monday Hannah is going to thank Friday Hannah for not doing this or Friday Hannah I e me now should do this before I leave because Monday Hanna will be really grateful. It's that future self. Yeah, it's like protecting your future self like I know that every Monday I can get lots of work done. So I haven't got any meetings in my calendar.
45:31.89
Ginnie
Um, oh I Love that? yeah.
45:41.45
fallowfieldmason
Um, so yes structure interesting.
45:43.33
Ginnie
My husband actually is great because he's basically my business partner because he is the only person I bounce things off, but um, he just he knows I'm a bit of a worrier sometimes and especially when you're on your own.
45:49.70
fallowfieldmason
Um, is yeah.
45:53.43
fallowfieldmason
You care? yeah.
45:56.88
Ginnie
I care. But I'm also trying to learn on the job and then I have to wipe someone's bottom as in my children and you know it's just like all my mind is like spaghetti junction but he is so good. He just said control the controllables and it is really simple like I have a tendency to worry about things before they've even happened and then it probably won't even turn out that way. So.
46:14.59
fallowfieldmason
Yeah, that I think that catastrophizing comes from our previous roles because we're working at such a high standard which obviously now we do too. But if you catastrophize everything and you carry the umbrella. It won't rain but it's not necessarily the best use of time the whole time. So you on that one.
46:16.31
Ginnie
Control The controllables is another good one and then and it yeah.
46:29.36
Ginnie
Oh I love that saying say that again if you carry the umbrella it won't rain so great. 1
46:33.89
fallowfieldmason
It's but it's but carry the um it yeah but it sometimes still will rain and that's okay because none of us are perfect I think it's another thing. Oh God There's so much. Yeah m.
46:42.20
Ginnie
And you have to have the yeah you have to have the lows to embrace the highs and that's across everything and I think we can get caught up in this especially with social media I'm like oh you know it's everybody's best life and it's.
46:53.83
fallowfieldmason
Oh don't Yeah, it's an edit Yes, that will do a whole series on that Actually um so what would your question be for the next guest.
46:58.52
Ginnie
Yeah, interesting. That's a whole other one. Oh So my question eloquently put I didn't write it as eloquently as this ah on the days when you are feeling. A little less positive about working for yourself and being a founder or all of a startup or whatever you want to call yourself and and you might have a tendency to think oh might pack this all in and go and get a full time job with all the you know trimmings. What? What do you do? What do you do. Get up and go somewhere. Do you just shut your laptop and put it away What what's the approach to take.
47:41.42
fallowfieldmason
To manager overwhelm and I find this really interesting you say go and get a full time job because ah my first year my best friends kept sending me jobs and I'm like but I've got a job I've made one up for myself I'm fine. Do you not have faith in me but a full time job for someone else.
47:53.22
Ginnie
Ah, oh.
47:56.60
fallowfieldmason
Is so much easier than being self-employed that full time makes it sound like you're working more hours for someone else than you are for yourself whereas Actually when you're self-employed. It's full-time Plus plus.
47:57.43
Ginnie
I know.
48:02.95
Ginnie
Yeah, totally and I did have a very lovely job offer the other day and I toyed with it for about 30 seconds and then I just thought now I I don't want to be beholden to anyone else. Not that it makes this easier but I I love the autonomy that comes with this and I love that we are seeing a generation of entrepreneurs come up through the roots and with great values and it gives me so much hope.
48:20.50
fallowfieldmason
Um, yeah.
48:29.56
fallowfieldmason
Yes, exactly and I think there's a study that I'll dig out somewhere that the brands being started now are a force for good and collectively was it 99% of new companies or companies in the uk are small businesses so small but mighty so yes.
48:43.40
Ginnie
Small but mighty I love it. We just need more investment in female founded businesses that would be another topic as well. I'd love to see more of that from the big guns. You know.
48:47.31
fallowfieldmason
Fingers crossed. Yes, yeah yeah, thank you Jenny it's been fascinating talking to you as always and ah thank you for your time.
49:00.79
Ginnie
Thank you so much for having me Juliet see.
49:04.47
fallowfieldmason
Wonderful. Let me just click stop.