Speaker 1: (00:00)
Welcome to How to Start Up a podcast for anyone starting or running a company hosted by me, Juliette Fallowfield, founder of PR, communications Consultancy, Fallowfield and Mason, where we teach you how to do your own pr. When starting and scaling a business, it's important to consider the impact of your supply chain on not only the planet, but also people. 88% of respondents to an OpenTech survey said they prioritize buying from companies that have ethical sourcing strategies in place. And 64% of 18 to 24 year olds surveyed said that they would never buy from a company again if they were accused of working with unethical suppliers. In this episode, I speak with Emily Holmes, founder of Good and Property, the T brand committed to doing things properly. Having founded her business in 2012, Emily has invested considerable time and money in making sure her business positively impacts the communities within her supply chain. With many companies wanting to better understand the implications of their supplier's actions, Emily shares her advice on auditing a supply chain, supporting the communities you work with and achieving profitability more sustainably. Hi Emily. It's great to have you on how to start up today. It'd be wonderful if you could kick off with an introduction as to who you are and a bit about the business that you started.
Speaker 2: (01:11)
Sure. Well, thanks for having me. It's good to be here. I am Emily Holmes, uh, now Forsyth, and uh, I'm the founder of Good and Property. We are, um, just have just crossed the 10 year mark. Um, so, uh, I think we can still call ourselves a startup, but I'm not totally sure. We are, uh, special specialty tea company based in London, um, on a mission basically to show, kind of show people how great tea can be. So we source single origin teas from around the world and we ensure that the customer, not only have we got great leaves, but that the customer can brew the best possible cup at the end of that. So, um, we've got a really kind of long and varied history with tea in the uk and so we're trying to inject a bit of new life into the category, um, and give people a delicious cup. So we supply cafes, restaurants, hotels, um, and bars and and offices and that's kind of the lion's share of our business. But we also have obviously a very loyal and growing, uh, customer base at home, tea drinkers at home, uh, as well as a small retail presence.
Speaker 1: (02:13)
Well, it's really interesting to hear you say that cuz from the outside you see this amazing tea brand. But the reason we wanted to chat to you today was because the season's around sustainability and the fact that new businesses and entrepreneurs have an opportunity to start as they mean to go on. They have a blank canvas. If they're informed as to the things that they should do starting, they don't then have to unpick their bad habits later. And we wanted to chat to you about supply chain and how you're looking after all of the different people involved in your business. So it'd be great if you could go into a bit more detail around that. Why, why was it important to you to start with?
Speaker 2: (02:44)
So why was it important to me? I think, I mean, 10 years ago sounds like such a long time, but I think it was totally, if I'm totally honest, it was completely obvious to me that if I was gonna start a business, that we had to do things right from the outset. I don't know whether I can't claim that I was because I was really, um, well-versed in sustainability issues or cuz I had any particular kind of passion or extra sort of feeling like I needed to sort of save the world or any particular allegiance to any particular problem in the world other than all of them, you know, other than just wanting to be a good person doing the right thing. And to me, doing business right was just a no-brainer. I think it just always had to, to be that way. Um, I I probably was slightly affected by a few things.
Speaker 2: (03:29)
I grew up in India, um, I spent about four and a half years in India, so I'd been to tea estates. So I knew that there were people in craft and, and um, a lot of work that went into the leaf. So I think that probably played into it a little bit. I have family members that work in kind of both social and environmental kind of sectors. So again, I think that was probably, you know, a little bit in the air. Um, but to be totally honest, I think it was just my approach and what has now become our business approach is doing things properly, doing things properly has kind of been this ethos that's underpinned everything we've done from the off doing things right by the planet and by people was just another part of doing it, right? So every step of the way, every decision we've made has just been like, right, okay, well what's the right way to do this? And in doing that,
Speaker 1: (04:15)
Even your brand name obviously.
Speaker 2: (04:17)
Yeah, I mean, but but also down to, you know, how we pick up the phone to customers and how we deal with issues. You know, it's, it's supposed to be absolutely everything and, and so I think it was probably more an approach of wanting to do everything right and honestly and authentically. Um, and you know, it's worth noting as well that the first fund of three, four years of my business, um, in fact up until three years ago, we had a physical presence. So we had, I started in the van, um, I was out, you know, literally face-to-face with customers. We then had pop-ups, andt bars and physical presence. Um, and that means you're literally interfacing with a customer every day. And that's, I think probably makes it even more important where you think honesty and authenticity are a big part of it. And when you apply that to sustainability, it obviously just needs to be, well, what are the things that matter? How do we do it right? How's everyone else doing it? You know, what approaches are there that we could adopt? And then finding our way through that. So it wasn't necessarily, as I say, a kind of, I'm passionate about saving the planet. Like obviously I've become more passionate over time, but it's more that I was just determined that we were gonna do things right across the board. And obviously when it came to sustainability than that had particular implications.
Speaker 1: (05:27)
So something I often say is that if you're sustainable, it doesn't necessarily mean you are good. If you do something repeatedly, you are sustaining it. So you could murder with someone with an ax every day and it just, you're a sustainable acts murderer. It doesn't mean you're a good person, . So I always struggle from a wordsmith perspective, the definition of sustainability and actually you saying, well, we wanted to do it the right way. You have that gut feeling in you that says this is the right way of doing it. How do you sense check that?
Speaker 2: (05:54)
I think I've tried not to use gut feeling as the truth, um, because really, I mean obviously gut feeling comes into it, but I think particularly with, I mean I couldn't agree more about the word sustainability. So it's, it's also become this kind of complete catch-all when no one understands what it means. I think it's a really, really complex and confusing topic that involves so many different parts. But as you say, really it should just mean by doing business with this community or buying tea in this way. Is that a sustainable practice for the world, for the people living there, et cetera, for the business? You know, if we can't sustain ourselves, then obviously there's, there's no point either. So, um, it's sort of simple, but it is also incredibly, um, complicated. And yes, we use gut feel, obviously if things feel, you know, I think I can probably say hand on heart that we've never had to sort of question morality of things we're doing.
Speaker 2: (06:42)
So gut obviously does come into it, but I think more particularly with the environment and with social issues, I think it's actually getting really into the kind of gritty detail of, of trying to understand it. And quite often you, you know, i I kind of do little sprint projects where it'll be kind of, right, we, we really need to understand what is out there now from a packaging perspective and actually is compostable packaging good or is it actually not as good as recyclable packaging? You know, that's just one example of a huge headache of complexity and misinformation and customer confusion. And, and almost without exception, you come out of the kind of, you know, immersing yourself in the detail and talking to lots of people going, right, well, there's no right answer. It's all learning curve. And, and you know, the big caveat to all of this conversation is, you know, I am by no means an expert.
Speaker 2: (07:35)
Um, and I think we are very much learning as we go. And I live in fear permanently, probably in a positive way of, of discovering that actually the way we've been doing it is actually not the best way and we need to adjust that and, and do better. And I think, I think probably I've now accepted that, um, the, the right way is just to keep learning, keep listening, keep stress testing and talking to all in all and iterate and just try and be a little bit better each time. And that's all you can really do. And I don't think you can't, there's no perfect in in any of these issues. Um, because if you, if you're saving the planet, you're usually affecting some community somewhere. If you're, you know, there's, there's, there's a trade off at all points.
Speaker 1: (08:20)
I love the fact you are looking at it from every single touch point of the business, whether it's how you pick up the phone to your supply chain. But in terms of your focusing in a bit on your supply chain, is there any advice you'd give to new founders as to how to identify a good and inverted commerce supply chain?
Speaker 2: (08:37)
I think again, a lot of it is to do with talking to lots of people, getting recommendations. You know, I, I'm slightly fortunate in the sense that by virtue of the kind of the quality of the product we're buying, um, quite often we're already in a, a space whereby a, we are paying a certain premium for our Ts, which means that the prices we're paying are giving us access tots from better suppliers. It also means that we are, again, by virtue of the quality we're buying, which is a very small proportion of those farmers' crops, we're paying well above a fair trade price. So there's kind of lots of things that I feel like are probably easier for me because of the se sort of part of the sector we're in. But I think at the beginning, certainly I did a huge amount of sponging of just talking to everyone in the industry.
Speaker 2: (09:26)
I think knowing your naive when you start and knowing that you don't know any of the answers is a great asset. Um, because you kind of go, you know, this is what I wanna do. I really wanna understand it better. Is there any chance you could give, you know, have a cup of tea with me and we can just talk about it? Or who's the best person I should be speaking to about sourcing tea from Taiwan? I mean, when I first started I remember an amazing lady who is a, you know, real kind of, she's now a T historian, but she, she knew a huge amount and had been in the industry for a very long time and I went to her kind of, you know, cap in hand and said, you know, this is what I wanna do, but help where do I start? And she basically in the end gave me a sort of black book to like, these are the people you need to talk to. And you know, over time that's evolved
Speaker 1: (10:09)
But you had the confidence to put your hand up. Yeah.
Speaker 2: (10:11)
Cuz who doesn't wanna share knowledge to someone that knows less than them? Um, and finding out what issues there might be in your particular industry that you need to be avoiding.
Speaker 1: (10:21)
So investing that time in being informed.
Speaker 2: (10:24)
Yeah, I think so
Speaker 1: (10:25)
Lots of guests have said that is like being vulnerable enough to put your hand up and ask for advice. You don't need to feel like you have to have all the answers at your fingertips stuff. Definitely not. Cause you are a startup. There's lots of things you're not gonna know about. Lots of categories.
Speaker 2: (10:39)
Well yeah and, and, and I think I'm on, I'm sure you are too, but I'm on so many WhatsApp groups and they are obsessively asking each other advice and it is amazing because there's no better advice than, oh my goodness like my packaging supplier has fallen through or they've gone bust help you know, who can help and someone else, another business owner like you's recommendation. I mean that doesn't come stronger than that in terms of kind of they work with them, they know they're good, let's pick up the phone and
Speaker 1: (11:07)
It's the best word of mouth.
Speaker 2: (11:08)
Yeah, a hundred percent. And actually sustainability I feel like is particularly good at that cuz there's a really great word I heard recently, green hushing where everyone's so afraid to talk about it because it, they might get it wrong that no one talks about it. Um, they
Speaker 1: (11:21)
Don't wanna be accused of greenwashing. Exactly. So they
Speaker 2: (11:22)
Just don't. Exactly. And everyone thinks that you're supposed to know all the answers. And actually I think the more we can kind of open that conversation share, you know, we are doing B corp which means we're talking to loads of businesses that are doing B Corp and that's amazing cause it's literally like, you know, my god this is really difficult. How did you approach the governance section or what did you kind of, what are you doing in this space? And sharing those learnings is a really good kind of,
Speaker 1: (11:44)
And the whole ethos of B Corp is that you set the tone of how to do business better so other people can copy you in the future. Yeah. They absolutely promote that if you are changing business. So you are setting an example of doing it better so other people can come along behind you and look at that as the thing to aim for.
Speaker 2: (12:02)
Yeah, yeah, yeah. Proudly copy. It's definitely the the kind of ethos. Yeah. And
Speaker 1: (12:06)
When you become certified you are part of the beehive. So you are part of this amazing hive of incredible companies that will all support each other, that mentorship. And in fact on one of those WhatsApp groups this morning I was thinking this is mutual mentoring. In fact we all need a mentor, we all need a coach. But the fact that we are all mentoring each other is really exciting . Yeah. And really efficient as well.
Speaker 2: (12:25)
Yeah, yeah, yeah, definitely. Because weve all got something we can teach each other
Speaker 1: (12:28)
If ever. I mean I was Chanel trained so I was like yeah, no, we're number one. And now I'm like, I have so much to learn about so many things , but I quite like it. You know, never a dull moment
Speaker 2: (12:38)
. Well absolutely. And and I think that's the best thing about being a business writer is that you can learn those things and put 'em into action today. Um, you know, not kind of wait for a whole culture to change. You can, you can take them and learn from them and adapt
Speaker 1: (12:50)
And another reason to do it as you're starting rather than try and unpick a juggernaut later on. Definitely. And actually I was gonna ask, do you think it took a lot more of your time to go this route but presumably cuz you had never done it any other way, you can't really compare?
Speaker 2: (13:03)
Yeah, I mean I think, I think there's no doubt that doing things right takes longer and costs more, to be honest. I think there are things coming into kind of carbon and different parts of a sustainability journey, um, that you know, can sometimes have a financial upside. But I think for the most part the truth is, is that yes, things sadly do often cost a bit more and they are harder because there are less suppliers.
Speaker 1: (13:29)
It takes more time to find and time is obviously a cost in its own right.
Speaker 2: (13:33)
That's exactly it. I think there absolutely is that side of things, but I think it's impossible to measure the value of that investment sadly, other than knowing it is clearly a, a long-term brand and business investment that is no doubt the right one. And
Speaker 1: (13:49)
I feel in today's age it underpins most new businesses that we're seeing coming through and the fact that actually shouldn't and it should, but it does translate into the marketing and the communications that if you are acquiring customers to your business, they're going to want to know your brand values. And if you can actually have those proof points to say, well this is why we do this and this is how we do that and that loyalty, so the return will come. You just can't like editorial, you can't actually put your finger on it saying we we have made this much money because we did that. Exactly.
Speaker 2: (14:17)
Which is true of all brand, you know?
Speaker 1: (14:19)
Yes, thank you. It's
Speaker 2: (14:20)
Exactly the same as as all brand things. And actually I think, um, you know, you are right that it's such a, it's such an obvious marketing tool and sadly that has meant there's a lot of greenwashing, which means, you know, I'm sure if you took a whole load of tea companies, so a lot of the blurbs would sound identical, you know, it's kind of like we all know the buzzword, we're all saying the same thing and then therefore it's, it's about that authenticity and that substance that sits behind it, which I think is a little bit, particularly with sustainability is about kind of really showing underneath the bonnet of the business. You know, it's kind of saying like, we're figuring it out, this is what we're doing. Sharing where you're at, sharing where you want to get to all of that I think is such a big part of getting that really true sense of kind of uh, responsibility across your customers.
Speaker 2: (15:09)
It's very easy to have five badges that you can chuck on a pack. Um, and you know, we can talk separately about certifications because they are problematic in their own right. Um, and I'm not a huge believer in a lot of them. B Corp is probably one of the first ones that's come along where I think, wow, that is so comprehensive, so challenging and so kind of game changing and, and and also iterative again, you know, it's not something you could just get, you have to then continue to keep it and continue to work on and continue to improve and therefore is a lot more valuable I think than just kind of a few things that are stuck on the front of,
Speaker 1: (15:43)
Well actually on that, are there things that people in your category should go after or things that you'd recommend they avoid?
Speaker 2: (15:51)
I mean tea is really specific but I think one that sits across lots of food and drink is fair trade. I dunno how much I want to go into the true detail of it because I know it's very controversial and probably a bit political as well. But I just think that no certification is foolproof and a lot of them are flawed. Not because they are necessarily, you know, haven't set out to do a great thing, but they, they can't be perfect. They can't kind of, you know, B Corp as I say, I think is so comprehensive that it's changing the way a business works, which is slightly different to saying I've ticked a load of boxes. Um, and basically particularly with the tea supply chain, there are things on the ground are often very different to what we want them to be or, or how we perceive good to look like from here.
Speaker 2: (16:41)
Um, I was at Origin in India a month ago and it was so interesting. You always go with all these questions and you come back with completely different questions cuz you suddenly realize the questions you're asking are all the wrong questions. Cuz actually the issue is not this, it's this. Um, and I think there's no substitute for kind of really knowing what the actual issues are and trying to understand that in your own head to then kind of pick your way through it. And sometimes those certifications can actually be more problematic for the supplier at the end rather than protecting them.
Speaker 1: (17:13)
Oh, I was gonna ask, given that your supply chain is global, how do you interrogate it? We,
Speaker 2: (17:17)
We source from 13 different regions. We now have uh, a purchasing partner, which has been hugely helpful. I used to kind of buy it all myself and I think now that we're buying obviously much bigger volumes that still is but would would also be terrifying. Um, and now I feel like I have a partner in that so that, you know, not only is helpful from a selection perspective when we're selecting ts for the year, it means I've got someone to do that with. But I think also it provides a level of reassurance that we're both accountable for auditing that supply chain. We both need to visit the supply chain. Uh, we'll make sure that one of us has, we both kind of have supplier codes of conduct and um, uh, surveys and things that, um, are unique to our business. And a lot of that kind of real process is stuff that we've only relatively recently put in place.
Speaker 2: (18:07)
We've kind of always had it informally and things like B Corp and, and kind of working with slightly bigger customers who have required sort of slightly more paperwork around those things that we were already doing in a certain way but needed to kind of put structure around. That's been stuff we've put we've put in place and it's been really helpful. But I think there's no, as I say, there's no real better thing than just talking to the people themselves and understanding what the issues are and, and how it can be a mutually beneficial arrangement and how, you know, us growing can benefit your suppliers and and all of that. But
Speaker 1: (18:38)
Do you love visiting and traveling to see where sort of going up the pipeline for you and seeing the source and seeing the actual crops?
Speaker 2: (18:47)
Yeah, it's the, it's the best thing ever. I thought I was gonna be doing it all the time. , um, and Covid uh, certainly put a stop to that. Uh, no it's kind of now back in sort of top of the agenda and I mean we came back from this trip just completely full of, there's just nothing like it. Um, nothing like it, you know, just cuz it's amazing. Anyway, as you can imagine, um, visiting t rowing regions is pretty magical, but, um, spending days and days with the people you are working with, understanding what makes them tick, what issues they've got that you actually hadn't even really realized how therefore, you know, cause I think it's very easy to, to sit in the UK and think this is what would be good for our suppliers or you know, this is what our customers want to see.
Speaker 2: (19:35)
You know, they want to see a very small, you know, pharma, you know, create, crafting a crop and, and you know, that might be a sort of vision that they have in their head of what a good supplier looks like. Um, but it's slightly romanticized and in reality it's kind of understanding what their challenges are, which might be in, in the example of Dar dealing where we just were, it was like, you know, the young don't wanna work in the fields anymore and that's a massive issue and how can they attract more people back to back to the fields and climate change meaning, you know, the crops are unreliable, the weather's unreliable and there's flooding and therefore the women can't drop their children at school and then get back to do their work. And you know, there's all sorts of really sort of specific, um, issues that you just can't audit no away , you know, you need to just understand it and then see how you can work together on it or you know, at least understand it if nothing else.
Speaker 1: (20:28)
Oh, so you seeing clients request information about that element of the business?
Speaker 2: (20:33)
Yeah, I think again, I would like to say that they want it more authentically, but in the truth is is that a lot of them, particularly kind of in the, in the business to business world, I think a lot of it is box ticking as well because you are a supplier of theirs and they're you therefore you are part of their supply chain. So they want to check in terms of risk, but they also want to check in terms of ticking their boxes that they're doing the right thing. So there can be a little bit of frustration where you're like, you're not really interested, you just want to know I'm doing it right, which you know, is fine. Um, and obviously hopefully we can provide them what they need to be reassured that we are a trustworthy supplier. I think it's our direct customers, so kind of the, the customers at home that you know, and the people that are kind of on the receiving end of our brand who hopefully really appreciate that detail and that kind of interest that we share with them. And I'm sure in a way, if you're doing your job right and you are kind of translating your values in everything you do, the fact is that your sustainability page probably won't be the most red page on your website, but hopefully they're getting through all of the way you talk about things and the way you share your journey and share your trips and, and share those problems that your suppliers might be having. I think hopefully then that would come through and therefore they trust that you are doing the right things beneath all that.
Speaker 1: (21:53)
And when you are doing your business planning and you are doing forecasting and mapping, do you have that sustainability roadmap within your business plan?
Speaker 2: (22:00)
So it's a really good question. Um, and we have a sustainability roadmap which we set up last year, um, which was a really exciting moment. I think again for sort of like we've been doing lots of these things already, but we've never had a framework and we've never kind of held ourselves accountable for any particular milestones. I think probably the, the, the changing factor there for us was carbon, um, because I think carbon is a very, the way carbon is approached and obviously with net zero targets means that there is this kind of roadmap mentality where it's like how are we going to get to an end goal that's very specific, it's very data-driven and in a way that's quite a good thing. Cause I feel like if we can all approach sustainability in that way and say, right, we want to eliminate plastics at X point or whatever the particular problem in your, in your kind of business might be, having those goals and those milestones I think is probably a great thing. So I, so we set that up last year and as part of B Corp obviously we've made the commitment and kind of changed the structure of our business for B Corp. We're sort of still very much in the process so we're, you know, being audited as we speak. And I think moving forward our impact report will be part of our, so for example, our year end, which is next month our, for the first time the impact report will be part of our kind of end of year report, which is quite exciting.
Speaker 1: (23:15)
Yeah, well it makes it accountable and you've put it down on paper legally that you've changed the way your company works. Yeah. And saying we're being audited as well. So we'll keep in touch as yeah. Thousand when we find out. But I think it's that I did this when I started the company, I put it straight on LinkedIn that I was doing my own thing so I couldn't go back. I published it, it was public knowledge that I was self-employed and it meant I couldn't undo it, I couldn't chicken out and I think B corp it, it's a big brother and it's looking and it's sharing best practice. It's helping, but it's also keeping you incredibly accountable. But one guest, I think a couple of episodes ago we were discussing saying you do an annual tax return or corporation or VAT return or whatever, you know, you legally have to do these things.
Speaker 1: (23:55)
Why isn't E S G not a legal requirement? It feels like unless you've got a really sort of hard stop, lots of people were like, oh well we tried, we did a kind of alright job, but we don't actually have to do it. But I think that's where your gut feeling and that that determination of it's the right thing to do and this is our business and you'll have a team around you that will be holding you accountable as well. And it, I know for sure it matters to my team what we're doing and how we're doing it, but what we said about green hushing and greenwashing is, it's fascinating because the press are so, so aware of businesses trying to greenwash them and they're sick to death of getting a pitch about something being sustainable. It's like, well what's your 10 year commitment to this charity project? Or like, what are you actually doing that's affecting change? Um, so yeah, it'd be interesting times.
Speaker 2: (24:41)
I'm actually glad to hear that you're saying that people are fed up. Cause I I sort of feel like people are still surprisingly and disappointingly tick boxy.
Speaker 1: (24:50)
Yeah.
Speaker 2: (24:51)
Where as I say, you know, sometimes we get asked questions that, that I feel like they don't quite really even care about the answer. You know, and, and you sort of feel like, I kind of want you to really care what I'm saying,
Speaker 1: (25:03)
Yeah. We've done all this work behind the scenes.
Speaker 2: (25:05)
Yeah. Whereas they're, okay, great, great. You know, you've got the, you've got the thing and you're like, well
Speaker 1: (25:09)
Well do you think, do you think cause they sort of expect that it's there, that most businesses there incorrectly assuming that most businesses have an ESG framework behind them and they take it for granted.
Speaker 2: (25:21)
Maybe. I mean, I feel like in my kind of ecosystem, which is food and drink startups, I think it is a, it is still a very new thing. Like it's built in, in one sense, you know, the brands quite often are very mission focused from the beginning, but at the same time you can get a free carbon footprint off the internet and you don't really have to try that hard. So there's, so there's a real disparity between kind of really wanting to get into it and making a big part of what you are doing and just making sure that you've got all the stuff there that sort of vaguely says you're doing the right thing. So I think, I think it's still a new, uh, a new world. And I think carbon as well, I think is a really, I mean I, when we started doing our carbon stuff, I was fascinated by it.
Speaker 2: (26:06)
Cause I was fascinated by how many companies had popped up to help you do your carbon footprint, but also incredibly frustrated as ever, which I'm afraid is always the way with, with anything, anything E S G, it seems where there's like two schools of thought and they're completely different and you know, and packaging is the darkest example always. But carbon was pretty much the same where it was like, well hang on, you can, you can do a product footprint or you can do a business footprint and no one really sort of talks about which one you are talking about. You know, it's all very well saying, great, let's put carbon footprints on packaging. A customer has no idea what a good carbon footprint looks like versus a bad one. So that's not helpful. And also you can measure it in different ways and you can talk about how great you are, but actually you can talk about Ono scope one and two and they're only really your kind of commuting . Um, so, so I could, I could not talk about any of my supply chain and the fact that I'm, you know, shipping tees across the world because I'm an SME and I don't have to talk about that yet. So there's, you know, it's just so complicated.
Speaker 1: (27:04)
The consumer is still very ignorant as to what they're missing.
Speaker 2: (27:07)
Very ignorant. Um, which I think again is why our approach has always been, rather than kind of having total imposter syndrome about, oh God, I dunno enough about sustainability, is just to be permanently trying to find, to learn more and talk to people and keep abreast of what's happening and, and then do what you think feels right to me. It felt right to overinvest and to actually measure our scope three, which is 90% of our emissions, in fact, 49% of our emissions. Are you born in the cattle at home? ? What am I supposed to do about that?
Speaker 1: (27:40)
? Well, especially when you're a tea brand. I, well,
Speaker 2: (27:43)
Yeah, but yeah, that, that's, you know, so we immediately put on pack, you know, please only boil the amount of water you need.
Speaker 1: (27:49)
So you're informing and helping and educating. Yeah.
Speaker 2: (27:51)
Yeah. So that's great. We can put our efforts into that. But, um, but I find it amazing that I could have just talked about the fact that I use a hundred percent renewable energy supplier and my team, you know, don't commute loads
Speaker 1: (28:03)
And you can leave out the bad stuff. But that's where I feel like that transparency of B Corp or another way of doing it, of here's all of it and if you want to dig into it, is there, so something that we do is the previous guest from the previous recording has a question for you and then we'll ask you a question for the next guest. So Jenny, who writes around sustainability for Gratzia and The Telegraph, she's a journalist. And her question, and I think I caught her in one of those weeks where just like the world is falling apart, she is like on the days that you want to pack it all in and go and search for a job on LinkedIn with permanent employment, with paid holiday pension bonus, paid notice periods, all the trappings, what do you say to yourself
Speaker 2: (28:44)
Usually I want to just stack shell or like paint by numbers, you know, I just want to sort to do something that has no impact. Well,
Speaker 1: (28:50)
Something you can deliver, something that's tangible. I think that's quite a recurring theme that friends would be like, I just wanna do something that's finished and done and I can walk away and it's, I can see it. Yeah. So I sort of replastered a wall and repainted and it's like, it's done. Incredibly
Speaker 2: (29:03)
Satisfying. Yes. It's not this living, breathing thing that always has to be better
Speaker 1: (29:08)
Constant and a constant whack-a-mole
Speaker 2: (29:10)
. Yes. Yeah, yeah. Constant whack. I mean, whackamole is the best analogy for business ever. Um, but, uh, no, no, I can relate to all of those things heavily. What do I say to myself? I think I, I feel like I know now after 10 years of those ups and downs, I think I, I basically would take myself for a run. Um, because quite often you just need, you know, we all know the difference between one day being just a such a rubbish day and the next day being like so pumped. This is so exciting. Like, oh I can't sleep cuz I'm so excited about all the things we're doing. Um, and that can be such a series of different things that feed into one or the other. And for me, going on a run is always the way to extract that good one , um, and pull myself outta the bad one because usually if I'm thinking, like we said at the very beginning, I'm excited, I'm creative, I'm thinking of all these great things and usually I'm able to work through a tricky moment as well. So that's what I would just get go go for run quick
Speaker 1: (30:11)
. Well get away from the laptop.
Speaker 2: (30:13)
Get away from the laptop. Yeah. What
Speaker 1: (30:15)
Question would you like to ask for the next guest coming on? Any found a pain point that you're like, you know what, I'd really like to hear someone else's perspective on that.
Speaker 2: (30:23)
Um, where do you turn to when you're in one of those real crisis moments? And it might be not necessarily a personal crisis kind of with, you know, the overwhelm or whatever, but more when you've got a really tricky predicament or a big decision. For me, one of the worst things about being your own boss is you don't really have anyone you know, every now and again saying, oh you really nailed that presentation. Or like, you know, I think you need to work on this. Um, you know, cause we all wanna improve, but we have no one telling us we're good or bad.
Speaker 1: (30:58)
Um, I was gonna ask if there's any last golden nugget pieces of advice you'd like to offer somebody who's either thinking about starting a business or starting a business or running a business around setting up sustainability within?
Speaker 2: (31:11)
I think, um, don't be overwhelmed. Just do something. Just kind of head down. Pick one thing first. Try and work out how it works. Decide how you are gonna do it. Find your own way. Don't necessarily do what you think everyone else is doing, particularly in terms of sustainability. Um, work out what you think is the right approach, stick with it, then move on to the next. And don't try and do it all at once and don't try and feel like everyone else has got it right and you dunno what you're doing. Cause I think, yeah, just start somewhere and, um, and do what you think is right and then it will be authentic and, and right by you. So that's the most important thing.
Speaker 1: (31:43)
Thank you so much for your amazing advice and inspiration. It's, it's given me a pep of onwards, so I really appreciate your time.
Speaker 2: (31:52)
Oh, good. Well thank you very much for having me. Really enjoyed it.
Speaker 1: (31:57)
If you'd like to contact Emily, you can find all of her details in the show notes along with a recap of the advice that she has so kindly shared. Thank you for listening to how to start up. I hope these conversations offer you some confidence, encouragement, and reassurance that you are on the right track. If you can enjoy this podcast, I'd be so appreciative if you were to rate, review and subscribe as it will really help other people starting a company discover it. Of course, if you've got any questions at all on pr, communications or podcasting, please don't hesitate to get in touch with me because at Fallowfield and Mason, we love supporting startups.